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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families Podcast. It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 1: Now, we really do want to take pleasure in one

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Speaker 1: another's company. We want to connect in deeper, meaningful ways,

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Speaker 1: and while the nature of that relationship shifts as our

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Speaker 1: children develop. I think that it's okay to be friends

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Speaker 1: with your kids.

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Speaker 2: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 2: and dad.

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Speaker 1: Hello, it's doctor Justin Colson, the founder of Happy Families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au Kylie, are you ready for another

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Speaker 1: explosive parenting myth Happy Families Podcast episode I was born

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Speaker 1: Ready today too? Myths to provoke you to think through,

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Speaker 1: to hopefully explode the first one, Can you be friends

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Speaker 1: with your kids? Missus Happy Families, let's just dive straight

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Speaker 1: into it. Don't worry about pleasantries. So, by the way,

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Speaker 1: you've got something on your lip?

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Speaker 2: Just here, you're a punk. Nobody can see that. Why

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Speaker 2: are you saying you've got something in your teeth? Just

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Speaker 2: in case everybody else wanted to know that?

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Speaker 1: That's so funny? Can you be friends with your kids?

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Speaker 2: With your husbands?

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Speaker 1: Should you be friends with your kids?

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Speaker 2: I think that it depends on their age, right, Okay.

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Speaker 2: I think that when your children are young, they need

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Speaker 2: the safety and security that comes from having a big

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Speaker 2: person take control of the situation.

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Speaker 1: Someone authoritative, someone that they can rely on, and the

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Speaker 1: relationship is definitely going to be I mean, it's relatively unequal.

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Speaker 1: The older they get, the more it equals out right.

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Speaker 2: That's right. But once our children become adults and they're

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Speaker 2: making their own decisions, then in some ways we actually

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Speaker 2: want to treat them as an equal right. We want

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Speaker 2: to give them the space and the autonomy that they

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Speaker 2: need to make the decisions, but recognize that just like

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Speaker 2: a friend, you're there to bounce ideas off, to come

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Speaker 2: and seek advice if they want, but not something that

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Speaker 2: you're going to shove down their throat like you would

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Speaker 2: have as a two year old.

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Speaker 1: So we've got three adult kids. Do you feel like

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Speaker 1: you're friends with them?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I do, and I love spending time with them.

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Speaker 2: And what I love most is the daily phone calls

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Speaker 2: to fill me in on how many vertebrae a horse

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Speaker 2: has because she's just come out of her class at

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Speaker 2: UNI and Maatham in physiology, and it's so excited to

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Speaker 2: tell me all of the things that she's learned. I

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Speaker 2: absolutely love that in the same breath that drives me

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Speaker 2: crazy because she wants to tell me every single detail

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Speaker 2: about every little thing that's going on in her world.

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Speaker 1: You're saying boundaries need to be enforced even in that friendship,

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Speaker 1: in that relationship, but.

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Speaker 2: I just I love that she feels like I'm a

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Speaker 2: person that she can come to and share her world with.

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Speaker 1: It's curious to me that we do want to be

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Speaker 1: friends with our kids. We want to be friendly towards

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Speaker 1: them and loving and compassionate all those things when they're little,

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Speaker 1: and we want that relationship to turn into a genuine,

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Speaker 1: reciprocal friendship as our kids enter adulthood. We've got a

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Speaker 1: fifteen year old. Would you say that you're friends with her?

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Speaker 2: No, I'm still her parent. Okay, I'm very friendly with her,

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Speaker 2: and we love spending time together and we will have

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Speaker 2: convers but she at this point in her life looks

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Speaker 2: up to me as an authoritative figure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I would prefer an autonomy supportive figure. If you

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Speaker 1: don't want yes, what about this one? Then we want

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Speaker 1: our kids to be friends with us as they get older,

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Speaker 1: and some parents want them to be friends very young.

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Speaker 1: I would agree By the way I'd say that the

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Speaker 1: stance that you've taken. If we can be autonomy supportive,

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Speaker 1: which means we have a friendly, supportive relationship with our

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Speaker 1: children as they're growing and loving and all those good things,

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Speaker 1: and then as they get older and emerge into adulthood,

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Speaker 1: that's when the relationship really can shift into a friendly relationship,

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Speaker 1: a friend oriented relationship. Do you want to are you

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Speaker 1: friends with your parents? Like? When I think about this

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Speaker 1: and people often say, oh, We've got to be friends

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Speaker 1: with our kids, and I pause and think, are you

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Speaker 1: friends with your parents?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 1: Do you want to be friends with your parents? Is

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Speaker 1: that a good thing? To be friends with your parents?

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Speaker 2: So what I call my parents my friends? Probably not.

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Speaker 2: I love and adore them, and I will go to

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Speaker 2: them from time to time for support and advice and counsel,

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Speaker 2: but I probably see them more at this point in

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Speaker 2: my life as a mentor figure. I guess, as somebody

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Speaker 2: that I would go to from time to time. We've

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Speaker 2: lived very different lives and we see the world very differently.

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Speaker 2: There are some choices that I've made, or we've made

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Speaker 2: in our lives that a counter to the way they

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Speaker 2: see the world and view the world. And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: I think that because of those life choices, it's kind

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Speaker 2: of taken us in different directions a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So friendships work best on shared values and shared life experience.

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Speaker 1: And as you become an adult and make your own

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Speaker 1: decisions and forward your own way, sometimes your choices may

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Speaker 1: be inconsistent with those that your parents have made or

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Speaker 1: would have made. If they've got expectations, that can really

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Speaker 1: drive a wedge, that can create challenges to overcome, and

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Speaker 1: it can shift the relationship. I also think it's worth

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Speaker 1: highlighting sometimes you might have parents, or sometimes you might

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Speaker 1: be a parent who is carrying a lot of baggage

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Speaker 1: dealing with unresolved trauma, depression, anxiety, all those kinds of

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Speaker 1: other mental health challenges, and that's going to impede the

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Speaker 1: quality of your relationship that you have, either with your

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Speaker 1: parents or with your kids, if we're looking at these

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Speaker 1: intergenerational relationships. But I like the use of the word

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Speaker 1: mentor because I was thinking, I mean, I love my parents.

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Speaker 1: I reckon I'm on pretty friendly terms with my parents.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if i'd say, oh, my dad's a

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Speaker 1: great mate. I mean, I love spending time with them,

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Speaker 1: but we're such different people. I'm probably actually closer friends

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Speaker 1: with my mum i'm with my dad, although I feel

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Speaker 1: like my bond with my dad is deep and strong

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Speaker 1: and beautiful, and I'm certainly not downplaying or disparaging that

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Speaker 1: when I say it. But I'm thinking intergenerationally. I've got friends,

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Speaker 1: and I guess you might call them mentors, people who

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Speaker 1: are a generation older than you and I, and I

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Speaker 1: know you do too, where I feel like we're great friends.

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Speaker 1: So you can be friends with people who are twenty thirty,

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Speaker 1: forty years older, like properly friends.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't think age comes into the equation. I

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Speaker 2: think that it really is about how each person views

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Speaker 2: the relationship. I have friendships, and I recognize and no,

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Speaker 2: based on conversations I've had with those friends, what we

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Speaker 2: get out of our relationship is very different personally.

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Speaker 1: So I like friends who are into day to day contact,

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Speaker 1: or not day to day but regular contact. They'll send

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Speaker 1: a text and say, Hey, just checking in.

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Speaker 2: Wanted to say hi, missed you the other day when

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Speaker 2: we were down at the beach. Yeah, yeah, yeah, We're.

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Speaker 1: Doing this thing next weekend. Would you like to come

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Speaker 1: and join us? As going to be five or six

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Speaker 1: of us and we're all going to go and hang out.

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Speaker 2: So for me, those relationships are ones that are kind

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Speaker 2: of integrated into my day to day life. You know,

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Speaker 2: the kinds of relationships that they're just they're easy, it's natural,

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Speaker 2: and you just you're aware of what each other is

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Speaker 2: up to where you're at in life.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to say this, A friendship is a

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Speaker 1: relationship where you take pleasure in one another's company. And

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Speaker 1: the myth that we're not supposed to be friends with

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Speaker 1: our children needs to be busted because I think we

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Speaker 1: really do want to take pleasure in one another's company.

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Speaker 1: We want to connect in deeper, meaningful ways, and while

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Speaker 1: the nature of that relationship shifts as our children develop.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's okay to be friends with your kids.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't mean that you you don't step in with

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Speaker 1: that authoritative or autonomy, supportive role or presence when necessary.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, you can be friends with your kids. Is

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Speaker 1: that resolved away on the same page? Is it convinced

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Speaker 1: to me?

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Speaker 2: I think you are going there just.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm not friends with our kids. I love our kids.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think the one thing I will say about

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Speaker 2: choosing to be friends with your children especially in those

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Speaker 2: younger formative years teenage years. And I've watched it with

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Speaker 2: lots of parents over the years. It's just how important

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Speaker 2: it is as the adult to not actually dump on

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Speaker 2: our kids.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so don't use your kids. And so there are

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Speaker 1: two fatal mistakes that I think parents make when they're

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Speaker 1: trying to be friends with their kids. Number One, they

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Speaker 1: become permissive and let the kids do whatever they want.

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Speaker 1: They supply them alcohol or other drugs, and you know,

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Speaker 1: they let them party. Or number two, they use their

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Speaker 1: kids as a friend slash therapist, and they share things

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Speaker 1: that are just their adult things and they're sharing them

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Speaker 1: with kids. And that's again why there's always going to

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Speaker 1: be a slight difference in the parent child relationship. Even

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Speaker 1: let's say you're sixty and your kids are thirty five

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Speaker 1: or forty, whatever it is, you're still not going to

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Speaker 1: use them as a therapist. If there's some stuff going

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Speaker 1: on where you just don't involve your kids because it's

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Speaker 1: family and relationships are complicated. But you can still be friends,

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Speaker 1: you can still take pleasure in another's company, you can

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Speaker 1: still have day to day interaction and love finding out

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Speaker 1: about their lives. And that is what a healthy friendship

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Speaker 1: is all about, at least in a family context. After

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Speaker 1: break our second myth for this week of parenting myths

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Speaker 1: exploded on the Happy Families podcast. Can you tell whether

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Speaker 1: someone's a good parent by how weather kids turn out?

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Speaker 1: Between fifteen and twenty percent of teens have anxiety. Anxiety

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Speaker 1: is one of the leading causes of mental illness in

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Speaker 1: our children, and as parents, we want to know where

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Speaker 1: is it coming from? Can we stop it? And how

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Speaker 1: do we help our children just feel better? Start by

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Speaker 1: learning how to recognize anxiety in your child, how to respond,

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Speaker 1: and how to give them hope and the anxiety in

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Speaker 1: your child. Webinar can help. It's available at Happy families

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Speaker 1: dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Family's podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now And I'm interested

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Speaker 2: where you're going to go with this, doctor Coulson. Can

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Speaker 2: you tell a good parent by how good their kids are?

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Speaker 1: Yes? And no?

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Speaker 2: Wow?

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Speaker 1: Yeah. The reason these myths exist is because there's a

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Speaker 1: kernel of truth. There's just that little bit that stands

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Speaker 1: on and you go, I can think of so many

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Speaker 1: examples where that's right, but all is it always right?

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Speaker 1: And that's why we need to have this conversation. You

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Speaker 1: and I both know many, many, many kids that have

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Speaker 1: been raised in homes where parents have been supportive and

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Speaker 1: generous and compassionate and involved and structured, and they've ticked

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Speaker 1: all the boxes, and they've had kids who frankly, have

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Speaker 1: been really, really, really challenging. But then those kids, how

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Speaker 1: do they grow up? Do they grow up to be

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Speaker 1: challenging or like results take time to measure, And we

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Speaker 1: also know plenty of parents who have been permissive, even neglectful,

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Speaker 1: plenty of parents who have not fulfilled their parenting responsibilities,

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Speaker 1: and quite often their kids follow what the data suggests

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Speaker 1: and end up having all sorts of really big challenges.

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Speaker 1: But they have some kids that buck the trend in

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Speaker 1: spite of all of the very worst parenting in the world.

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Speaker 1: So I just think it's one of those things, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: where you can't judge a parent by their children, and

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Speaker 1: you can't judge a child by their parents, although there's

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Speaker 1: usually a handful of indicators to give us some reasonable

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Speaker 1: suggestions that things will go one way or another.

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Speaker 2: Over the years, I've actually I've watched some parents and

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Speaker 2: you know, who've had for all intents and purposes picture

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Speaker 2: perfect children, yep. Who As time has gone on, children

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Speaker 2: have completely bucked the system because in order to get

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Speaker 2: those picture perfect children, there's been a high level of

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Speaker 2: control in the relationship, and so children get to a

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Speaker 2: certain point where they kind of realize they don't.

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Speaker 1: Need to they push back. They're a bell. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: I like what you said. Results take time to measure,

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Speaker 1: And this is the critical thing when we're talking about

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Speaker 1: a good parent or a good kid, when at what

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Speaker 1: point if they're twelve but they're under the thumb, of

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Speaker 1: course they're going to be good and the parents are

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Speaker 1: going to look like their picture perfect But if they're

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Speaker 1: eighteen and now they're rebelling, does that mean that they're

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Speaker 1: bad kids or does that mean that they were bad parents.

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Speaker 1: I just think there's so many factors at play here.

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Speaker 2: When I was growing up, it was very much a

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Speaker 2: societal I guess belief that children were to be seen

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Speaker 2: and not heard. And having raised our children very differently.

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Speaker 1: Children are noisy, had are always heard and seen.

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Speaker 2: And have opinions, yes, And I love.

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Speaker 1: Bringing them into the conversation as well. When we've got

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Speaker 1: friends over around the dining table, bring the kids in,

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Speaker 1: ask the kids what they think. I mean, that's fun.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely love that our children feel like they have

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Speaker 2: the capacity to share their voice. But at times, number one,

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Speaker 2: it can be extremely grating, and number two, it can

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Speaker 2: be very embarrassing when you're out and about and your

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Speaker 2: child decides to just say it how it is in

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Speaker 2: front of someone who's a complete stranger or even a friend.

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Speaker 1: But kids are irrational and logical. Everyone knows that, right.

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Speaker 1: You hope so bad, but they don't. But they don't,

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Speaker 1: And then you get judged as beea, that's right, And then.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden, I'm a bad parent because how

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Speaker 2: dare I let my children.

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Speaker 1: Speak like that? Yeah? Yeah, don't you teach your children

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Speaker 1: any manners.

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Speaker 2: I saw this post the other day and I wish

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Speaker 2: I had taken a picture of it because it was brilliant.

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Speaker 2: It was just acknowledging that all of these traits that

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Speaker 2: we see in children and see them as being, you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of classed as naughty or disobedient or because they

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Speaker 2: go against the grain. In adults, we would call them

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Speaker 2: innovative and creative.

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Speaker 1: And you're principled rebel, yes, but it's a child. You're

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Speaker 1: just annoying.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and so I love that. You know, we've

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Speaker 2: kind of created this space for our children where they

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Speaker 2: feel they can talk, but at times it can be

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Speaker 2: really challenging as a parent to navigate that because there's

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Speaker 2: a level of immaturity and a reverence that comes with

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Speaker 2: this unlearned skill.

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Speaker 1: Kylie, I think there's one other area that we could

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Speaker 1: talk about here as well, and that is issues to

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Speaker 1: do with well being, mental health, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So I think that I can say without oversharing, that

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Speaker 1: we have one child who has struggled with anxiety issues

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Speaker 1: throughout her entire life. Neither you nor I are anxious.

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Speaker 1: We've raised our children in a home where we focus

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Speaker 1: on well being principles, we focus on faith, we focus

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Speaker 1: on a whole lot of other things that are going

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Speaker 1: to be good, healthy and beneficial for our children. And

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Speaker 1: it seems that no matter what we've done, no matter

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Speaker 1: how many conversations, no matter how many exercises, no matter

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Speaker 1: how many interventions, no matter how many whatever, no matter

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Speaker 1: how much love, that issue still exists. And there are

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Speaker 1: families with all kinds of things that are going on

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Speaker 1: with their children that frankly have little or nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with parenting. But the children exhibit challenging behaviors or

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Speaker 1: experience some delays or difficulties, and it's so easy for

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Speaker 1: parents to be judged by how their kids are turning out.

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Speaker 1: We'll teach ourselves, yeah, yeah, but it's all in the moment.

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Speaker 1: It's in the moment. I think, if we can wrap

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Speaker 1: it up, this myth, it needs to be exploded and

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Speaker 1: we need to really acknowledge that while there are a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of things that parents can do that are predictive,

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Speaker 1: that is that lead in a certain direction, ultimately our children,

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Speaker 1: as they grow will make their own choices. They have

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Speaker 1: what you and I would call agency, the capacity to

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Speaker 1: choose for yourself. And because they've got that capacity to

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Speaker 1: choose for themselves, they're going to do things counter to

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Speaker 1: all of our teaching and all of our ideas if

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Speaker 1: we're getting it right, or they might see what we're

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Speaker 1: doing and we're getting it all wrong, and they may

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Speaker 1: choose otherwise because they don't want to go down that path,

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Speaker 1: and there is nothing that we can do about it

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Speaker 1: one way or the other. They are their own people,

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Speaker 1: and therefore, you can't judge yourself as a parent based

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Speaker 1: on how your kids turn out.

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Speaker 2: Or other parents, or oh thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: I look at my parents, and I look at the

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Speaker 1: way me and my five siblings have turned out. There's me,

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Speaker 1: twin girls, my brother and twin girls, and we live such.

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Speaker 2: Diverse, literally six diverse.

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Speaker 1: And varied lives. We've got the artists. Who's a professional dancer.

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Speaker 1: We've got the marketing entrepreneur, guru, photographer guy. We've got

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Speaker 1: somebody who's working in a hospital, somebody who is dealing

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Speaker 1: with chronic lifelong mental health issues, and somebody who is

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Speaker 1: a mum. We've all just gone in such different directions.

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Speaker 1: And depending on how you measure success and a good

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Speaker 1: life and all that kind of thing, you could judge

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Speaker 1: my parents in so many different ways. But you know

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Speaker 1: how I judge my parents. I just look at how

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Speaker 1: hard they work. I look at how much they loved us,

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Speaker 1: and I acknowledge that they did the absolute very best

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Speaker 1: that they could, and how we turned out has such

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Speaker 1: limited relevance to what they did as parents.

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Speaker 2: I love that Michelle Myth busted.

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Speaker 1: Okay, last comment, because we've got to wrap it up.

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Speaker 1: That times up.

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Speaker 2: Well, Michelle Mitchell just posted something the other day and

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Speaker 2: I thought it was just a nice little ray of hope,

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Speaker 2: she said, good news. A little backchat rejection of your ideas,

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Speaker 2: novelty seeking and risk taking tells us they are developmentally

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Speaker 2: on track.

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Speaker 1: Olch. If you're not following Michelle Mitchell, jump onto her

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Speaker 1: Facebook page. She's great value and has all sorts of

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Speaker 1: excellent insights. We hope that we've busted those myths for you. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's okay to be friends with your kids, just don't

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Speaker 1: be over permissive and support them in unhealthy behaviors because

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Speaker 1: good friends don't do that, whether it's your kids or

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Speaker 1: someone else. And don't use them as your therapist because,

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Speaker 1: let's be honest, good friends don't do that either. And

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Speaker 1: you can't tell how good a parent is by how

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Speaker 1: the kids are turning out. Sometimes it's just a lottery.

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Speaker 1: Happy Family podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Briups is our executive producer. Hey tomorrow on the podcast. Well, actually,

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Speaker 1: a couple of months ago, we had a chat with

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Speaker 1: James Anderson who talked to us about growth mindset stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we had an incredible conversation. We got so much

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Speaker 1: positive feedback from that podcast. He's back tomorrow. I'm so

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Speaker 1: excited to hear James Anderson tomorrow talking about more myths

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Speaker 1: to do with how our brains work and what we

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Speaker 1: can do to help our kids to work through the

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Speaker 1: hard stuff. And then Kylie, we're back again on Thursday

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Speaker 1: with a couple more myths to bust on the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Podcast