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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: the twelfth of April, wrong day two of the campaign.

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Speaker 1: But I promise we will stop saying that after today. No,

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Speaker 1: we won't, No, we won't sam what is making headlines

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Speaker 1: outside of course of the federal election, which we'll be

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Speaker 1: discussing in today's deep dive.

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Speaker 2: We'll start in Austria, where Austrian Chancellor Karl Nihamma has

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Speaker 2: announced he will meet Russian President Vladimir Putin in Moscow,

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Speaker 2: making him the first European leader to meet with the

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Speaker 2: Russian leader in Moscow since the invasion began. Nihammer met

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Speaker 2: Ukraine's President Vladimeslenski on Saturday.

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Speaker 1: Australians aren't the only ones going to the ballot box.

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Speaker 1: French President Emmanuel Macron will face far right candidate Marie

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Speaker 1: Lapenn in the second and final round of France's presidential election.

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Speaker 1: Macron and Leapen were the top two candidates in the

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Speaker 1: first round of voting, which means that they are through

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Speaker 1: to the second round, and Poule suggests that this second round,

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Speaker 1: to be held in two weeks, will be a close one.

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Speaker 2: A new law has passed in Spain, making it illegal

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Speaker 2: to harass patients or staff outside abortion clinics. Anyone who

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Speaker 2: tries to impede someone from exercising their legal right to

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Speaker 2: an abortion with quote bothersome offensive, intimidating, or threatening acts

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Speaker 2: could be jailed for up to a year.

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Speaker 1: And finally, Today's good news. Courtesy of The Simpsons, the

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Speaker 1: TV show has featured a deaf actor for the first

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Speaker 1: time in seven hundred and twenty two episodes. American sign

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Speaker 1: language was used in this episode on Sunday.

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Speaker 2: So here at TDA, we've had now twenty four hours

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Speaker 2: to let the facts that an election is upon us

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Speaker 2: settle in. Everyone's kind of getting their bearings and mapping

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Speaker 2: out the next six weeks. We're not really going to

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Speaker 2: have much spare time, but it's doing what we love.

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Speaker 2: I'm joined today on the podcast by journalist Tom Crowley

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Speaker 2: to kind of take a step back and to think through,

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Speaker 2: all right, how is the Daily Os going to tackle

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Speaker 2: this election?

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Speaker 1: Tom?

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Speaker 2: When you heard the election was being called on Sunday,

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Speaker 2: how did you feel straight away?

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Speaker 3: Ah? I guess maybe this is a bit of an

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Speaker 3: anticlimactic and so Sam, I didn't really feel anything. I mean,

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Speaker 3: we knew the election was coming. We knew it was

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Speaker 3: going to be in late May, so the official calling

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Speaker 3: of the election the Starter's gun, if you like, on

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Speaker 3: the weekend was not really a particularly big deal, except

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Speaker 3: I suppose that it just marks the beginning of what

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Speaker 3: we now know will be a six week period where

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Speaker 3: maybe people are more focused on politics than they normally are.

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Speaker 3: There's I guess, a bit of everything. You know, you

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Speaker 3: get the good and the bad with elections. I think Sam,

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Speaker 3: that over the next few weeks will have the chance

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Speaker 3: to do some of the stuff that I love doing,

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Speaker 3: which is getting into the detail on policy and I

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Speaker 3: guess analyzing the policies that the parties put forward and

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Speaker 3: talking about what we want the future to look like

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Speaker 3: in Australia. That bit's exciting. But there's also a lot

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Speaker 3: of kind of stuff that makes people roll their eyes.

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Speaker 3: I think the people who don't like politics, some of

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Speaker 3: the worst of it can be on show during elections

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Speaker 3: as well. So it's going to be, you know, six

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Speaker 3: weeks full of holding babies and wearing hard hats and

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Speaker 3: high vis vests. You know. I suppose that there's a

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Speaker 3: bit of good and bad to come over the next

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Speaker 3: six weeks. Sam, and our job is to try and

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Speaker 3: make sense of it and make the best of it

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Speaker 3: that we can.

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Speaker 2: And how are you going to do that? How are

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Speaker 2: you going to make sense of what is inevitably going

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Speaker 2: to be quite complex policy announcements? What's important to you

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Speaker 2: when you're listening?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think like a lot of tda's audience. I

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Speaker 3: mean I used to be a member of tda's audience

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Speaker 3: before I joined as a journalist, And what we constantly

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Speaker 3: hear from the people who listen to our pod and

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Speaker 3: read our posts is that people are more interested in

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Speaker 3: cutting to the substance. And I think that our audience

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Speaker 3: has an appetite for cutting through the spin and cutting through,

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Speaker 3: you know, the boring, day to day gotcha nature of politics,

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Speaker 3: if you like, and getting to the heart of, you know,

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Speaker 3: what elections are supposed to be about. She's the ideas

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Speaker 3: and the policy. So I think that that'll be our

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Speaker 3: real focus, firstly on explaining for first time voters and

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Speaker 3: for people who aren't as hugged into politics, explaining how

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Speaker 3: elections work, explaining how to kind of navigate them as

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Speaker 3: a voter, and how to inform yourself and the kinds

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Speaker 3: of choices you've got to make. But also, you know,

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Speaker 3: really cover the issues, evaluating what politicians do say and

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Speaker 3: evaluating what they don't say as well. Very keen to

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Speaker 3: kind of not just to let the politicians set the

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Speaker 3: terms for the ideas that we talk about in this

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Speaker 3: election debate, but to hear from TDA readers. You know,

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Speaker 3: what do you care about? What are you want spoken

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Speaker 3: about in the election, and what do you expect of

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Speaker 3: government and politicians?

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Speaker 2: And I'll pull you up on one of the words

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Speaker 2: that you said there the gotcha moments for politicians. Yesterday

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Speaker 2: we heard Anthony Albernizi not being able to name Australia's

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Speaker 2: unemployment rate and the cash rate. A couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: ago we had Scott Morrison in a similar situation at

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Speaker 2: the National Press Club not being able to name how

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Speaker 2: much a bottle of milk costs. How important are those

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Speaker 2: kind of gotcha moments to you as a journal Oh?

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Speaker 3: Look, I mean I think I don't want to be

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Speaker 3: too cynical about it. You know, these things do matter

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Speaker 3: to an extent, and particularly these sorts of questions when

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Speaker 3: they give you a sense of the are our political

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Speaker 3: leaders in touch? Do they understand the concerns of ordinary people?

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Speaker 3: I guess it comes from a good place, and I

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Speaker 3: can see why people are interested in it, and I think,

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Speaker 3: you know, we can be cynical about the role of

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Speaker 3: personality in politics, but personality matters. It's appropriate for people

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Speaker 3: to look at the personalities of politicians and the people

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Speaker 3: who want to lead them and to get a sense

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Speaker 3: of do you trust this person, do you think that

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Speaker 3: they're competent, do you think they're.

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Speaker 2: Going to do a good job.

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Speaker 3: So I don't want to sort of be the boring

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Speaker 3: policy nerd who insists that we must only talk about

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Speaker 3: the kind of letter of the law when we're talking

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Speaker 3: about politics. I get that this stuff has its place,

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Speaker 3: but I think probably maybe the place, maybe the way

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Speaker 3: to put it is this samms. As journalists and at TDA,

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Speaker 3: that our role where we can add the most is

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Speaker 3: not really kind of you know, dwelling and commentating and

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Speaker 3: spending all of this time talking about you know, scow

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Speaker 3: most slip ups or elbow slip ups. But maybe where

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Speaker 3: we can do the best is unpacking and explaining in

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Speaker 3: simple language some of that harder stuff, some of the

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Speaker 3: more detailed policy. So I think that's where my focus

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Speaker 3: will be. But I'm not going to judge anyone who's

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Speaker 3: kind of watches closely when politicians get heckled in public.

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Speaker 3: It's all part of the election, and it's all part

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Speaker 3: of the circus of democracy. I guess.

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Speaker 2: I guess a very natural question that everybody will be

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Speaker 2: thinking about over the next couple of weeks is ultimately

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Speaker 2: who's going to win? Who is going to be our government.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to know what you think if you were

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Speaker 2: to stare into the crystal ball, and to that point,

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Speaker 2: should we be looking at the polls? Is polling still

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Speaker 2: something that we can rely on to help inform that answer.

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm a bit nervous about making a prediction, Sam,

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Speaker 3: I've been wrong before and I'm sure i'll be wrong again.

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Speaker 3: I don't think anyone has a crystal ball, and I

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Speaker 3: think it's a very vexed question, this question of how

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Speaker 3: much should we pay attention to the polls. People might

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Speaker 3: recall that last time the polls, the sort of the

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Speaker 3: consensus is the polls got it wrong. The polls were

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Speaker 3: saying at the last election that Labor were likely to win,

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Speaker 3: and of course that didn't happen, And there's a lot

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Speaker 3: of talk about can we trust them this time? The

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Speaker 3: answer to that is complicated. I think polls are useful

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Speaker 3: in some ways. They can give us a general sense

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Speaker 3: of where things are at, they can give us a

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Speaker 3: bit of a sense of momentum, but we've got to

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Speaker 3: take them with a grain of salt. So I guess

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Speaker 3: the first thing to say along those lines, right, is

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Speaker 3: that when we think of polling, the polling that we

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Speaker 3: get quoted most often is what's called the national two

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Speaker 3: party preferred, and so it says across the whole country.

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Speaker 3: It might be I think at the moment it's something like,

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Speaker 3: you know, fifty five percent Labor forty five percent Coalition

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Speaker 3: and as you know, two parties across the whole country.

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Speaker 3: Now that gives you an interesting sense of kind of well,

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Speaker 3: Labour's not in government, but it seems like at the

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Speaker 3: moment people are looking more favorably on them. But the

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Speaker 3: government isn't decided by how many people all across the

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Speaker 3: country support Labor over the liberals. The government is decided

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Speaker 3: in a series of smaller local races. A quick plug

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Speaker 3: for our podcast No Silly Questions, where we've explained all

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Speaker 3: of this in a little bit more detail last week.

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Speaker 3: But the way it works is We don't pick the

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Speaker 3: prime minister directly when we go into the voting box.

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Speaker 3: We pick our local representative and it is the one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty one local representatives Australia wide who determine

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Speaker 3: who the government is. And so, you know, national polling

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Speaker 3: and understanding if you like, the pulse of the nation

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Speaker 3: as polls do, is kind of useful in some sense,

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Speaker 3: but we need to dig a little bit deeper, and

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Speaker 3: we need to look kind of, you know, seat by seat,

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Speaker 3: area by area in the country to get a sense

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Speaker 3: of kind of, well, where are these kind of one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty one seats going to go? You know,

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Speaker 3: where a battle is going to be won and lost

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Speaker 3: at a smaller level, and sometimes you can get poles

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Speaker 3: that zoom in that close, but it's a bit harder

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Speaker 3: to get you know, enough responses in kind of each

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Speaker 3: local area to get that clear picture. So looking at

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Speaker 3: the poles nationwide, looking at the poles in each state,

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Speaker 3: looking at the poles when they exist in seat by seat,

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Speaker 3: all of those things are kind of useful. But at

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Speaker 3: the end of the day, you know, elections are complicated.

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Speaker 3: There are twenty thirty forty seats in the country, that

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Speaker 3: are pretty close. Maybe the person who won last time

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Speaker 3: might not win this time some of them. There are

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Speaker 3: some seats that Labor have that they could lose, there

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Speaker 3: are some seats that the Liberals have that they could lose.

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Speaker 3: So there are all sorts of, you know, unpredictable factors

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Speaker 3: in this election. That's a very long cop out, Sam,

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Speaker 3: I don't have a confident prediction about what's going to

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Speaker 3: happen this time, but that's my defensive answer for you.

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Speaker 3: And to round out this conversation, Tom, I'd love to

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Speaker 3: kind of zoom out a little bit and talk about

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Speaker 3: a healthy media diet for the average Australian as we

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Speaker 3: all try and make our way through what is going

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Speaker 3: to be quite a long election cycle. What is your

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Speaker 3: key advice to people trying to be more engaged with

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Speaker 3: our political system. Obviously, you know, let's assume everyone already

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Speaker 3: reads the daily OS's that's a given these days. But

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Speaker 3: what's your advice people who really want to make the

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Speaker 3: most of this election. I'd say two things. The way

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Speaker 3: to break out of politicking side of elections is just

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Speaker 3: to kind of sit down, check in with yourself and

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Speaker 3: go what's on the list of things that I really

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Speaker 3: care about, and start there. Start with the issues. Start

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Speaker 3: with what matters to you. And maybe it's climate change,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's the cost of living. You know, who knows

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Speaker 3: which issues might be kind of top of the list

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Speaker 3: for different TDO readers. But start there, start with that issue,

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Speaker 3: and then come to politics and come to the different

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Speaker 3: parties and come to the different candidates. You know, with

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Speaker 3: that kind of those maybe your top three if you

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Speaker 3: want to make a list of your top three things

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Speaker 3: with that in mind, and use that as a kind

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Speaker 3: of a way to go, well, I'm I'm going to

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Speaker 3: have something that I can judge the parties against. It

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Speaker 3: going to be what are they doing on climate change

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Speaker 3: or whatever else the issue is that you particularly interested in,

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Speaker 3: and that way you can kind of be having a

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Speaker 3: bit of a more meaningful conversation. Second piece of advice

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Speaker 3: that I would give is that we live in a

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Speaker 3: participatory democracy. This is the chance to make your voice heard.

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Speaker 3: You can also make your voice heard quite directly by

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Speaker 3: getting in touch with the candidates in your local area.

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Speaker 3: You know, elections are these big, huge nationwide affairs, but

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Speaker 3: they're also you know, deeply local, deeply neighborhood affairs. You're electorate.

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Speaker 3: If you live in a city, it's probably only just

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Speaker 3: sort of a couple of suburbs around you. That's small enough.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's only a few thousand people or you know,

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Speaker 3: tens of thousands of people in each electorate. You can

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Speaker 3: have a conversation. I'm sure you will see your local

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Speaker 3: candidates standing around on shopping strips or else. You can

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Speaker 3: kind of get in touch with them on social media directly,

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Speaker 3: you know, find out who's running in your area and

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Speaker 3: get in touch with them and talk to them yourselves.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's what this process is all about, and

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Speaker 3: get a sense from the person about what sort of

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Speaker 3: a representative that they'll be, and I guess sort of

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Speaker 3: build that relationship and assess them all for you go,

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Speaker 3: because you've got to not just pick one. You know,

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Speaker 3: you've got to order all of the candidates in your

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Speaker 3: local area, you know, from kind of first last to last,

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Speaker 3: best to worst. So you know, take that time to

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Speaker 3: get to know them, get to know the people who

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Speaker 3: are running, and make your choice that way. And I

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Speaker 3: guess then it can be a little bit more of

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Speaker 3: a personal connection and you can feel a bit more

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Speaker 3: I guess, a little bit less powerless and a little

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Speaker 3: bit less like this is this big national thing that

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Speaker 3: you can't sway, and a little bit more like your

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Speaker 3: vote matters. And that's a really powerful note to think about,

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Speaker 3: is you know, this is our election. This is an

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Speaker 3: election that belongs to the people, and that is a

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Speaker 3: really exciting idea that hopefully we'll shine through the coverage

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Speaker 3: of TDA. The coverage, from my perspective, is going to

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Speaker 3: be all about you. It's going to be about the voter,

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Speaker 3: and that is something that we feel really strongly about executing,

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Speaker 3: and we're excited by it gets us up in the

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Speaker 3: morning and we can't wait to deliver that. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: think that's a really good note to finish on, Sam.

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Speaker 3: And we're sounding very cheerful and optimistic here. And I

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Speaker 3: know that some people are cynical about politics, so maybe

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Speaker 3: I've just sort of add one final thought, which is

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Speaker 3: that I guess politics is cynical as you choose to

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Speaker 3: make it. And it is very easy to kind of

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Speaker 3: throw your hands up in the air and say, all

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Speaker 3: of these politicians they're out for themselves and they don't

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Speaker 3: care about us, so what does it matter? But you

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Speaker 3: know that in a sense is kind of a little

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Speaker 3: bit of a self defeating mindset. So I think we

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Speaker 3: can make this election a good and interesting one. We

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Speaker 3: can make it about the ideas, and we can make

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Speaker 3: it about the future we care about if we choose

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Speaker 3: to not be deeply cynical. So you know, sometimes I'm

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Speaker 3: prior to cynicism about politics, but I'm going to try

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Speaker 3: my very best to be optimistic and to have that

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Speaker 3: future focus over the next six weeks. Sam looking forward

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Speaker 3: to chatting to you about it as we go on.

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Speaker 2: Keep calm and carry on, everyone. We are just at

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Speaker 2: the beginning. If you want to follow us on Instagram

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Speaker 2: to see all of this coverage play out beyond the

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Speaker 2: Daily Podcast, you can find us at the Daily Ods.

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Speaker 2: Until then, please message us with any questions about the

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Speaker 2: election you've got. We'll be ready to answer them and listen,

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Speaker 2: and we'll speak to you tomorrow