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Speaker 1: We're talking a little while ago about the lease of

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Speaker 1: the Darwin Port, and there's going to be no changes

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Speaker 1: to a Chinese company's controversial lease over the Port of Darwin.

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Speaker 1: The federal government announced that over the weekend. Now the

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Speaker 1: Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet said that it finished

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Speaker 1: its review of the matter and it will not vary

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Speaker 1: or cancel the lease, which is held by Lambridge, saying

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Speaker 1: the review found that if there is a robust regulatory

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Speaker 1: system in place to manage risks to critical infrastructure, including

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Speaker 1: the Port of Darwin, existing monitoring mechanisms are sufficient and

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Speaker 1: will be ongoing, and as a result, it was not

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Speaker 1: necessary to vary or cancel the lease. That is what

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Speaker 1: the Department had said in a statement. Now, joining me

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Speaker 1: to shed a bit more light on this situation is

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Speaker 1: the Member for Solomon, The Federal Member for Solomon, Luke Gosling.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Luke, Morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now, Luke, why did the government feel that this review

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Speaker 1: needed to happen to begin with?

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Speaker 2: There was a Senate inquiry. Well, I guess to start

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Speaker 2: from the start, the obvious point to make is that

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Speaker 2: it was a stupid decision that should never have happened.

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Speaker 2: I've consistently said that from twenty fifteen until today, and

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of COLP voters that voted for

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Speaker 2: the CLP to get into government back then, if they

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Speaker 2: knew that the CLP was then going to sell a port,

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Speaker 2: men might have changed their thinking on who they were

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Speaker 2: going to vote for. Because universally across this country, when

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Speaker 2: I've talked to people over the years, Australians do not

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Speaker 2: understand why such stupid decision was made. So that may

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Speaker 2: I maintained that the darwnport should be in Australian hands

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Speaker 2: and labor would not have listed for ninety nine years.

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Speaker 2: I'm very confident to say that. But we are where

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Speaker 2: we are. There's been a review because there were some concerns,

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Speaker 2: I mean, including from people in our security and intelligence agencies,

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Speaker 2: that we committed to doing a full review. It hasn't

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Speaker 2: come out and said, you know, the portouldn't be shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be in foreign hands. It's come out and said, with

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Speaker 2: the regulatory robust frameworks that are in place, there's not

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Speaker 2: a case for canceling the lease that Lanmbridge holds. Even

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Speaker 2: though Lanbridge has sort of talked a big game about

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Speaker 2: a lot of investment that hasn't come to fruition, the

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Speaker 2: hotel being one, but also more work at the port

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Speaker 2: being another. But there are issues for the NT government

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Speaker 2: to hold them to account to.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if it's not a security risk and if

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Speaker 1: the Federal government now doesn't see that it's going to

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Speaker 1: cause any concern or that the lease needs to come back,

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Speaker 1: is it a stupid decision.

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Speaker 2: It is a stupid decision because such critical infrastructure in

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Speaker 2: the North should be in Australian hands. Quite frankly, this

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Speaker 2: is our country and we should have control of such

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Speaker 2: vital says, particularly in a time of unprecedented uncertainty since

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Speaker 2: the Second World War.

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Speaker 1: So do you agree with the findings?

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Speaker 2: Look look on part of a government that's accepted the findings.

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Speaker 2: But what I don't accept is that this is the

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Speaker 2: end of the story. There are willing buyers out their

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Speaker 2: Australian entities backed by super funds, willing buyers of the port.

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Speaker 2: I think we should be exploring all avenues if this

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Speaker 2: is a commercial deal.

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Speaker 1: So have you said that to the Prime Minister that

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Speaker 1: we should actually be exploring other avenues now with the

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Speaker 1: Darwin Port.

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Speaker 2: I've consistently said that and I've been in I maintain

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Speaker 2: a good open dialogue with the Prime Minister about these issues.

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Speaker 2: Don't forget back in twenty fifteen when the port was

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Speaker 2: leased by the COLP, we the coalition federal government did

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Speaker 2: not only did they assist with that sale, and then

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Speaker 2: one of their coalition cabinet ministers went to work for

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Speaker 2: Lambridge on Nelly and million bucks a year. Not only

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Speaker 2: did that happen, but they launched the Knafe, which was

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Speaker 2: specifically about putting funds into port infrastructure and other significant

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Speaker 2: infrastructure in the North. So at the same time you had, oh,

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Speaker 2: we've got to sell list to the Chinese, but we

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Speaker 2: can't use this Australian Infrastructure Fund to buy and develop

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Speaker 2: infrastructure in the North. So that was ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: I mean, is the situation here. And look, I know

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Speaker 1: you and I were talking about this lease of the

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Speaker 1: port all the way back when it happened, Like I

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Speaker 1: remember both like both you and I talking about our

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Speaker 1: concerns with it. At the time, I believe Malcolm Turnbull

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Speaker 1: was the Prime Minister, he'd come on the show, he'd

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Speaker 1: made some other comments about the leasing of the port,

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Speaker 1: and you know a lot of people were very very

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Speaker 1: concerned about the port being leased, but I guess there

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Speaker 1: are some asking them this morning. Has the federal government

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Speaker 1: then gone down this path and are not wanting to

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Speaker 1: overturn this lease because you're worried about maintaining that international

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Speaker 1: relationship with China.

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Speaker 2: What the review found is that there's no grounds at

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Speaker 2: this point to cancel the lease. Now, look, if we

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Speaker 2: were the Philippines and we're having very concerning interactions with

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Speaker 2: the Chinese navy in our waters, all the situation will

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Speaker 2: be different. But what the review says is that the

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Speaker 2: national interest at this point does not dictate a canceling

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Speaker 2: of the lease. Hopefully things remain fair, open, peaceful in

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Speaker 2: the Indo Pacific. There may be a time in the

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Speaker 2: future when that lease has to be canceled, but at

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Speaker 2: this point, the decision is that it's not in the

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Speaker 2: national interest to cancel it. What I'm saying is that

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Speaker 2: doesn't mean that we don't look for other commercial options here,

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Speaker 2: because there are willing buyers Australian buyers of that port infrastructure,

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Speaker 2: but there's not a willing seller.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: If any seller is offered a very good price and

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Speaker 2: knocks it back, well, then it kind of suggests that

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Speaker 2: it's not just a commercial imperative, that it's actually seen

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Speaker 2: as a strategic imperative, right, and that would.

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Speaker 1: So you reckon there could be more to it in

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Speaker 1: terms of Landbridge having that lace.

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Speaker 2: Well, if it's a purely commercial decision, it would be obvious.

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Speaker 2: If it's if a really good deal has knocked back,

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Speaker 2: that's a commercial taking money and you've made a good deal.

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Speaker 2: If there's more to it than that, well then that'll

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Speaker 2: also be obvious.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds to me like even though you've obviously

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Speaker 1: accepted the findings of this review that's been done, you

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Speaker 1: do think that the Federal government needs to be looking

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Speaker 1: for for somebody to take over that lace and for

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Speaker 1: an Australian buyer to take it over.

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Speaker 2: If there's an Australian buyer that's purchase this infrastructure, no

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Speaker 2: different to the Darwin Airport which is in Australian hands

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Speaker 2: back by super funds, then it's a critical piece of infrastructure.

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Speaker 2: I would prefer that to be in Australian hands. Most

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Speaker 2: Australians would prefer it to be in Australian hands. And

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Speaker 2: we need more port infrastructure because we've got more army

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Speaker 2: watercraft coming we've got more naval vessels coming, we've got

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Speaker 2: more allies and partners wanting to train and have logistic

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Speaker 2: hubs here that can support our common interests in the region. Well,

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Speaker 2: all that's supported by an Australian own piece of critical infrastructure.

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Speaker 1: At the very least, Should the least now be reviewed

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Speaker 1: every couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Do you think it's something we need to keep a

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Speaker 2: watch on continually. Our nation won't be coerced by trade

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Speaker 2: deal or what have you into making decisions that are

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Speaker 2: not in the national interest at this point. The government

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Speaker 2: has said that there's no case for canceling the lease.

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Speaker 2: It's not in the initient national interest to do it

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Speaker 2: at this point. Doesn't mean there won't be in the future,

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Speaker 2: and it also doesn't mean that there can't be a

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Speaker 2: commercial deal here.

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Speaker 1: Look just moving along because one of the things that

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Speaker 1: we've spoken about at length this morning is the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory government basically tabling last week in Parliament the alcohol

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Speaker 1: review that they've been working on over the last three years.

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Speaker 1: A number of different recommendations are being made. There is

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Speaker 1: no doubt that alcohol is having a huge impact on

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Speaker 1: problem drinkers in the Northern Territory. Do you think that

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Speaker 1: we need to take a really serious look at this

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Speaker 1: and make some pretty tough decisions to try and get

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Speaker 1: a handle on some of what we are saying.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely think we need to be making tough decisions

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Speaker 2: to crack down on what is an evil in our society,

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Speaker 2: the violence, the thefts, particularly the domestic violence, but any

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Speaker 2: damage against property or the person is de portbabal and

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Speaker 2: Territorians obviously don't want to see that. I've seen a

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Speaker 2: slight easing of that lately. People keep in touch with

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Speaker 2: me about what's going on. There's no doubt though, that

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Speaker 2: we need strong action. I congratulate the NT government for

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Speaker 2: bringing forward, for one, reviewing and then bringing forward some

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Speaker 2: ways that we can crack down on alcohol. Because alcohol

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Speaker 2: well used responsibly is fantastic. It's great in our society.

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Speaker 2: It's part of our social fabric. But it's also part

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Speaker 2: of our social fabric that causes a lot of harm.

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Speaker 2: So everyone's got a responsibility. Drinkers have got a responsibility,

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Speaker 2: and also obviously the government's got a responsibility.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they most certainly do. And a lot of people

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Speaker 1: feeling at the moment that the Northern Territory government just

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Speaker 1: does not have a grasp on crime and the issues

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Speaker 1: that we're experiencing. One of the things that we speak

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Speaker 1: quite a lot about, one of the things that we

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Speaker 1: hear quite a lot about having a big impact on

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Speaker 1: police resourcing as well, is the rates of domestic violence

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Speaker 1: and the domestic violence call out. Now the Northern Territory government,

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Speaker 1: it pains to say that we need needs based funding

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Speaker 1: from the federal government when it comes to DV. Is

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Speaker 1: that something that you're lobbying for or do you think

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Speaker 1: needs to change? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And if anyone ever balks at the idea of

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Speaker 2: needs based funding, that's because the need scares them because

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Speaker 2: of the magnitude of it. But don't we have to

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Speaker 2: get after this problem. Don't we need to do everything

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Speaker 2: we possibly can to stop women and children being assaulted.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not just talking about Aboriginal territorianes. DV is

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Speaker 2: a problem across the board. It's the breakdown of the family.

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Speaker 2: It's got a lot to do with the fact that

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Speaker 2: we haven't got the parental responsibility that we used to have,

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Speaker 2: we haven't got the social compacts that we once had,

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Speaker 2: and it's a big issue. We need to get back

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Speaker 2: to a place where everyone is respected, but everyone takes

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Speaker 2: responsibility for their own actions and particularly for their children.

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Speaker 1: So it's the federal government you think going to actually

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Speaker 1: provide needs based funding for the Northern Territory when it

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Speaker 1: comes to domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Okay, who knows. Maybe they might provide funding based on need,

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Speaker 2: which is a different way of putting it, but it

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Speaker 2: means the same thing I've heard that before, framed is

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Speaker 2: a way through this. When it comes down to it,

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Speaker 2: we need more funding and that's what I'll keep advocating for.

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Speaker 2: But I do want to congratulate some of the people

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Speaker 2: in the NT government, Mark Monaghan and Brent Potter, just

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Speaker 2: to take two for example, really getting after this alcohol

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Speaker 2: issue in their own commune. It is, you know, particularly

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Speaker 2: the sale of alcohol to people who who are well

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Speaker 2: who are going to abuse it or on sell it,

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Speaker 2: Cracking down on local stores that aren't doing the wrong thing,

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Speaker 2: moving people on from public places, when that's the sort

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Speaker 2: of leadership we need throughout the territory.

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Speaker 1: Frankly, so, do you think some of their other the

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Speaker 1: other local members should be following suits?

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Speaker 2: Well, I know Nariah kit does a fantastic job up

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Speaker 2: in her Pats very difficult, particularly when she's coming up

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Speaker 2: with solutions and you've got people like Briano Gallagher from

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Speaker 2: a council who are for just pure based political reasons

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Speaker 2: stamping on the good solutions that Nari's coming up with.

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Speaker 1: To be honest, I think it's because people had enough

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Speaker 1: people and there isn't much change. You know, people have

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Speaker 1: had a gutful of what they're saying in their community.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I understand that. I understand that people have

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Speaker 2: had a gutfull. I mean from where I sit, I

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Speaker 2: see hard working MLAs and I think Nari's one of

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Speaker 2: them that is trying to work with their community to

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Speaker 2: get better results. But what I dislike intensely, and we've

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Speaker 2: seen a bit of it with Peter Dunne and just

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Speaker 2: In the Price, is using the disadvantage of the territory

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Speaker 2: and the issues in the territory for their own base

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Speaker 2: political advantage. Quite it's quite disgusting and I'm over it.

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Speaker 2: I think territories just want to see progress. Everyone can

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Speaker 2: point to the problem, but it's people that are coming

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Speaker 2: up with the solutions. They're the people that we should

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Speaker 2: be backing. No, he's doing that, and then she gets

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Speaker 2: belded down by a local Olderman and that's not prepared to.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to have to pull you up because because

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Speaker 1: even in the review that was done around alcohol last week,

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Speaker 1: you know, you've then got the Northern Territory Police saying

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Speaker 1: that they want more powers to be able to actually

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Speaker 1: look at people's licenses, to look at their ideas when

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Speaker 1: they're tipping out alcohol and when people are public drinking.

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Speaker 1: And then you've got the Northern Territory government holding back

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Speaker 1: or making that change. So you can't say on one hand,

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Speaker 1: they can't say on one hand that they're listening, but

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Speaker 1: then you're not actually listening to those that are on

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Speaker 1: the forefront having to deal with these types of things.

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Speaker 2: Look, people are on the forefront of our law and

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Speaker 2: order situation. He should always be listened to and they

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Speaker 2: should always be supported, and we need to make sure

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Speaker 2: that that's happening every day. But also, I mean, let's

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Speaker 2: see what the government comes up with. It's not the

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Speaker 2: end of the year the Parliment as I understand it,

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Speaker 2: there is change coming. Whether it's going to happen this week.

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Speaker 2: You know, I'm working federally. I'm not always across exactly

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Speaker 2: what the NT government are doing during the parliamentary weeks ahead.

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Speaker 2: But there is a mood for change. There's some new

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Speaker 2: leadership within the NT team that are really listening to

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Speaker 2: the community and saying they expect change. We've got a

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Speaker 2: review that says we need to do a number of

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Speaker 2: things and I think they're getting after it.

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Speaker 1: Look, we are going to have to leave it there on.

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Speaker 1: Fortunately we've run out of time. Thank you very much

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Speaker 1: for your time though, as always

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Speaker 2: Thank you Katie, thank you