1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,040 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:10,040 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcottin woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,799 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,599 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os I'm Zara 8 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: and over the next two weeks we're going to be 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 2: bringing you a bonus series featuring our favorite deep dives 10 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,160 Speaker 2: from twenty twenty three. We've put together the best deep 11 00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 2: dives to listen to on the beach, road, tripping when 12 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:38,760 Speaker 2: you don't want to speak to the person next to you, 13 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 2: or just reflecting on the year that was. Welcome to 14 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: tda's summer series. 15 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:48,240 Speaker 3: There's been a lot of stories in the news in 16 00:00:48,240 --> 00:00:51,440 Speaker 3: the last few weeks about shootings in Sydney and their 17 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 3: connections to drug gangs and underworld crime, and I had 18 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:57,560 Speaker 3: a lot of questions. I wanted to know what was 19 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,520 Speaker 3: going on and what really needs to happen to bring 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: this violence to an end. So I thought who better 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 3: to ask than Crime editor at the Daily Telegraph, Mark Murray. 22 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 3: You might know him from his explainers on TikTok, but 23 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: he's been following this story since the seventies. Mark, thanks 24 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 3: so much for joining us on the Zaarly Ozz this morning. 25 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 4: I talked to you. 26 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: So just over the last month, we've seen multiple shootings 27 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 3: in Sydney. At one point there was a number of 28 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,039 Speaker 3: shootings across a five day period. For those of us 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 3: who literally have no idea where this story starts, what's 30 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 3: happening here. 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 4: Well, it's said in five days we had three young 32 00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 4: people shot at green Acre in the middle of the night. 33 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 4: Now one of those has since died, but two of 34 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 4: those were believed to be totally innocent, where the target 35 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 4: was a twenty four year old man and one of 36 00:01:45,360 --> 00:01:48,320 Speaker 4: the bullet straight and hit a young couple. Then there 37 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 4: was another shooting at Canterbury where a young drug dealer 38 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 4: was filled. In between, we had a defense lawyer, Mamouda Bass, 39 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 4: who was very high profile here. We shot outside his 40 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 4: homing no Bankstown and lived so and then there was 41 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,640 Speaker 4: another shooting as well. 42 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,440 Speaker 5: So we've had five people injured in five days and 43 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 5: you know, one of them, the bodies was laying in 44 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 5: the middle of the street in Canterbury where young school 45 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 5: children were walking past before it was covered, and that's. 46 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 4: Really raised a lot of people's years about what's going 47 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 4: on in our streets. 48 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 3: But where has this all come from? Like, is this 49 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 3: just an annual occurrence or is there something particularly at 50 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: play here that's led to this spike? 51 00:02:30,320 --> 00:02:32,959 Speaker 4: Now you do find little clusters, I'll be honest. I've 52 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 4: been around a long time, you know, and I've been 53 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:39,240 Speaker 4: watching these shootings and I've seen it a lot worse, 54 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,080 Speaker 4: which is a pretty sad thing to say. But what 55 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: we've found it's all been driven by drug money. Invariably, 56 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 4: it's by the fact that somebody either has bought, you know, 57 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,400 Speaker 4: a whole lot of cocaine and not paid the dealer, 58 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 4: or somebody strayed into someone's territory and that's created a 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 4: problem because the amount of money being made from cocaine 60 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:03,680 Speaker 4: is enormous, and especially in Sydney, wekay the highest prices 61 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 4: in the world. That makes it the most profitable. 62 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 3: And so are you comfortable linking all of these murders 63 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 3: to kind of that wider drug trade? 64 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,839 Speaker 4: Invariably, although in the last two years, there's been over 65 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:21,400 Speaker 4: twenty people murdered. Some of those innocent victims. Now, not 66 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 4: all of them are strictly related to the drug trade. 67 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 4: They may be amongst criminals who are involved in the 68 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 4: drug trade who have got a personal vendetta or hate 69 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 4: each other, or they just become enemies, you know, but 70 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 4: it starts invariably with a drug war. 71 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 3: How do you know all of this? And that's a 72 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 3: bit of an odd question, But where are you basing 73 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,320 Speaker 3: this information off? 74 00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 4: I'll be really honest. For many many years, I've been 75 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:48,760 Speaker 4: in Sydney, based in Sydney, I had a short stint overseas, 76 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:51,480 Speaker 4: so I've got to know a lot of police officers 77 00:03:51,520 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 4: over the years. But i also have a number of 78 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 4: underworld contacts that I've got to know over the years. 79 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:01,640 Speaker 4: And myself and another report or to josh Hanrahan. We 80 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 4: spend a lot of time going out and about and 81 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 4: you get information and we verify it. Like I'll get 82 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 4: an information from a guy who's a crook or then 83 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 4: a crook, and then I'll go and make sure that 84 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,359 Speaker 4: I get it verified, maybe by a police officer. We 85 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 4: don't report rumor. We have to double check everything right, 86 00:04:19,440 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 4: sometimes something's a bit murky because, as you can understand, 87 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:26,960 Speaker 4: in this world, not everybody's honest. Yeah, and also the 88 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,599 Speaker 4: police sometimes very very protective of their information. They don't 89 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:34,559 Speaker 4: like things getting out there because it tips off people 90 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 4: they might be arresting or plans they have. So it's 91 00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 4: a fine line walking between both the crooks and the cops. 92 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 4: And that's what you have to do to try and 93 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 4: do what we do where I'm well. 94 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 3: I'm interested then with your sense of how the underworld 95 00:04:49,839 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 3: in Sydney is feeling at the moment. Is there a 96 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 3: sense of fear within your key contacts now because of 97 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:57,839 Speaker 3: this spate of shootings. 98 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, there is. You really, you've hit it right on 99 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 4: the At the moment, there'd be eighty to one hundred 100 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,520 Speaker 4: well known Sydney crooks who are living overseas and either 101 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 4: leven On or Turkey. Most of them are dual nationals 102 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 4: who have got out of Sydney in the last year 103 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:13,920 Speaker 4: or two. Because when you have these shootings going on, 104 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:16,960 Speaker 4: the police do go out there and start smashing anybody 105 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 4: in everyone they can. They've got to be seen to 106 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 4: be doing things making life hell, even if they can't 107 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 4: get them on serious charges. But because of the way 108 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 4: that people are being shot outside gyms and the frequency, 109 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:31,160 Speaker 4: a lot have got out of Sydney because they're worried 110 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 4: they're going to be shot. 111 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 3: So if we kind of know that a lot of 112 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:40,279 Speaker 3: these shootings have drugs and this gang revenge rivalry behind them, 113 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 3: why do you think it's so hard for police to 114 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,080 Speaker 3: stop them and not put those serious charges on them, 115 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 3: as you're saying, and have to kind of skirt around 116 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 3: the edges. 117 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:54,119 Speaker 4: Because the criminals have got very very good at getting 118 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 4: rid of evidence. There'll be three or four cars stolen. 119 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,800 Speaker 4: Sometimes some of those cars are stolen for a year 120 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 4: ago and a foot in storage. They then that on 121 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,919 Speaker 4: fire to get rid of DNA fingerprints. There's another car waiting. 122 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 4: A lot of the times, the people stealing the car 123 00:06:11,279 --> 00:06:14,320 Speaker 4: seldom to people who then pass them on to other 124 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,239 Speaker 4: people who have no idea, So the big players are 125 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,880 Speaker 4: very carefully. There was actually one that was in a 126 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:23,039 Speaker 4: court case and I was amazed when I saw it. 127 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 4: Police had intercepted a bone and in it they saw 128 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 4: in the WhatsApp group there was a chat saying who 129 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 4: will go and hit so and so for one hundred thousand, 130 00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:34,800 Speaker 4: So there was a WhatsApp group advertising for a hit. 131 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 3: Is that kind of how much it costs to kill 132 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,120 Speaker 3: someone these days? It is about one hundred thousand. 133 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 4: It depends a lot. That was an old one for 134 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:43,520 Speaker 4: a start. You got to think, I know this sounds 135 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 4: a good crasp, but there's a lot of overheads, so 136 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 4: one hundred thousand is fairly cheap. It does depend on 137 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 4: who the target is. There was Memordian, there was shot 138 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 4: Bond dijunction. He was a high ranking common hero who 139 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 4: was taking precautions. Now I've heard conservatively that would to 140 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,560 Speaker 4: cost anywhere from six hundred thousand to a million. Well 141 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 4: that's because he's such a big player. Lots of risks. 142 00:07:06,560 --> 00:07:10,080 Speaker 4: There were two food shooters, two or three stylen guns. 143 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 4: Then there are day houses for those guys to go to. 144 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 4: The guns cost money. But there are other people out there. 145 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:20,760 Speaker 4: There are other very young young criminals in young gangs, 146 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 4: particularly young Islanders as Syrians, who are preyed upon by 147 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 4: the organized crime groups, who are willing to try and 148 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,120 Speaker 4: shoot people for not a lot of money. And again 149 00:07:31,440 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 4: they will really being paid by a whole range of exmedia. 150 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 4: So that that protects people. So as I said, There've 151 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 4: been a lot of people arrested for buying us for 152 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 4: these murders, but the police haven't put up the chain 153 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 4: a lot because all those bays the way. They've got 154 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 4: so clever at doing that. 155 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: So it's clear that organized criminals in Sydney, but I'd 156 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: say probably more broadly speaking, across Australia have leveled up. 157 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:01,120 Speaker 3: What do you think think of the police response so 158 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: new so Otherwis police have launched this task force, task 159 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,920 Speaker 3: Force Magnus. Do you think that'll be effective in stopping 160 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 3: the next five shootings? 161 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 4: I think that Task Force Magnets has been announced publicly, 162 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,840 Speaker 4: who procate the public? Will they stop the next five shootings? 163 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,040 Speaker 4: They will, They'll stop some shootings, but not all of them, 164 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 4: and then they have to get practical. I can't keep 165 00:08:22,240 --> 00:08:24,239 Speaker 4: all these crops on the street twenty four to seven 166 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 4: without having blowing the state budget. And then the shootings 167 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,160 Speaker 4: will start again. As I said, I've been seeing it 168 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:32,719 Speaker 4: going on and off for forty years, and there might 169 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: be a lull for six months, twelve months, then there'll 170 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 4: be another another crew that will come along. Then they'll 171 00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 4: they'll start a war. 172 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 3: So what is the solution then? How do you cut 173 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 3: the head off the snake. 174 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 4: You have to stop drugs coming into the city or 175 00:08:49,080 --> 00:08:50,959 Speaker 4: which I don't think will really work. We've got to 176 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 4: stop people taking drugs, and I've spoken to cops, so 177 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 4: I'm just going, well, look, we know that all these 178 00:08:56,160 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 4: cocaines driving all these gang wars. What happens if we 179 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,200 Speaker 4: legalize it and they go, well, you'll still have the 180 00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:05,560 Speaker 4: cartels try to come in and undercut the legal market. 181 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:08,120 Speaker 4: So that makes it a bit difficult. I really don't 182 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: understand where how we can stop. You know, it's I said, 183 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:13,840 Speaker 4: you know, ideally it'd beef there there was no production 184 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,040 Speaker 4: out of South America and no Tatain, but that's just 185 00:09:16,080 --> 00:09:20,600 Speaker 4: an unrealistic So I don't know. What we've got to 186 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 4: stop is the new breed of shooter. Is what worries 187 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 4: me is they are so reckless. You know, the guy's 188 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 4: going into the barber shop in marrit Fort on a 189 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,880 Speaker 4: Friday afternoon and opening fire. There was another incidant last 190 00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:38,079 Speaker 4: year outside of gym and the bullet strayed and went 191 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: into a childcare center next door. In the eighties, I 192 00:09:41,160 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 4: remember covering there was a ganglan war where eight to 193 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 4: ten people were shot went missing. Now I think one 194 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:50,199 Speaker 4: of those one that was in the daytime. The rest 195 00:09:50,320 --> 00:09:52,520 Speaker 4: we're done in the middle of the night, very quietly. 196 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,360 Speaker 4: Some just disappeared and their bones were found years and 197 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 4: years later. That's how the murders were done. The hits 198 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 4: were done then hardly ever in public we've seen. You know, 199 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 4: there was a guy called Wally r Met who was 200 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 4: shot sitting having coffee at a rooftop at Bankstown. But 201 00:10:07,200 --> 00:10:09,439 Speaker 4: a guy went up and they opened fire there and 202 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,520 Speaker 4: an austral bullet when we hit the lady at a 203 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:14,360 Speaker 4: coffee table next to him. In the old daiies they 204 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 4: didn't really do that many public shootings, and now they're 205 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 4: just they're shooting broad daylight with Stemi automatic weapons. That's 206 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 4: what's the scary thing. 207 00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 3: Mark, last question from me. You've been around the traps 208 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,559 Speaker 3: a lot, very clearly, you've got a lot of strong 209 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 3: contacts in this kind of other side to Sydney than 210 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:32,800 Speaker 3: a lot of us. See, are you worried about your 211 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Speaker 3: own personal safety when reporting this kind of thing? 212 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, a little bit now. Again, never used to be 213 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 4: because in the old days, pure newspapers were a little 214 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:45,400 Speaker 4: bit more anonymous with social media very visible. Also. I mean, 215 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: I've had guys come from you lock in a pub 216 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,200 Speaker 4: because they're very unhappy about what I've written. So it's 217 00:10:50,280 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 4: a little bit scared. And again, they don't seem to 218 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 4: have the rules that they used to have. You know, 219 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 4: we've seen women shot dead. A woman called the Metafol Power. 220 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:02,520 Speaker 4: She was shot dead. In the old days, again, women 221 00:11:02,559 --> 00:11:06,360 Speaker 4: weren't shot. They never put people's lives in danger in 222 00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 4: the public because then you're as bad for business. You're 223 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:11,840 Speaker 4: in A journalist used to be bad for business, and 224 00:11:11,880 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 4: I have to do it. But yeah, it is a 225 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,839 Speaker 4: bit of a worry. But I'm thinking that they've got 226 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,320 Speaker 4: more important things to do than Brian get me. So 227 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,000 Speaker 4: I'm just reporting what the underworld and the police know already. 228 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 4: We're just leading the public mailk around it. 229 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:27,920 Speaker 3: Well, Mike, I really appreciate your time kind of illuminating 230 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 3: this side of the city that we don't talk about 231 00:11:29,880 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 3: that much, and we really appreciate it. 232 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 4: Not a problem. Thank you for having me on. 233 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on the Daily OS today. 234 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,239 Speaker 2: If you liked this episode and you're listening on Spotify 235 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: as always, we'd love to hear your questions, your comments. 236 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,600 Speaker 1: You can pop them in the box under. 237 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 4: The episode description. 238 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 1: Sam and Zara will be back again tomorrow. 239 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 3: Until then, have an excellent day.