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Speaker 1: Over the last couple of weeks, we have reported on

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Speaker 1: issues being experienced in Catherine at the high school. There's

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Speaker 1: been videos posted on social media of kids well fighting,

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Speaker 1: being set upon. We have indeed spoken to the Education

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Speaker 1: minister about this in the past, and we know that

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Speaker 1: last week it was reported that police officers were going

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Speaker 1: to be wandering students at Catherine High School after a

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Speaker 1: student was treated at a local clinic following well what

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Speaker 1: was described as a stabbing incident at.

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Speaker 2: The school last Thursday.

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Speaker 1: We also know then that it was being reported that

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Speaker 1: a child was stabbed with a pencil this week. Now

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Speaker 1: joining us on the line is the local member for Catherine.

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Speaker 1: She's also the Minister for Education, Joe Hersey. Good morning Joe,

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Speaker 1: Good morning Katie and to the listeners.

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Speaker 2: Lovely to have you on the show this morning.

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Speaker 3: Joe.

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Speaker 1: I know there's quite a bit going on in the

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Speaker 1: education space. Can you talk me through how things are

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Speaker 1: going at the Catherine High School? First off, I know

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Speaker 1: you and I spoke about this just a couple of

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Speaker 1: weeks ago and some of the issues that were being

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Speaker 1: experienced with fighting and other poor behavior.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So for the listeners that you know don't quite

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Speaker 3: know the situation of what's been going on there. You know, yes,

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Speaker 3: there was the start of the school term, there's been

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Speaker 3: quite a few fights. We as the department put in

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Speaker 3: school attendance officers and engagement officers to just help support

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Speaker 3: the school through recess and lunch. They've got a school

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Speaker 3: based constable there that is supporting students, you know if

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Speaker 3: they want to have a chat out in the school

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Speaker 3: playground of school grounds. And you know, there's been a

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Speaker 3: lot of support given to the principal and the leadership team.

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Speaker 3: But also on top of that, Katie, we've also it's

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Speaker 3: almost been like a perfect stool where there's been one

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Speaker 3: hundred and seven new Grade seven's coming to that school,

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Speaker 3: a totally brand new leadership team, and the principle was

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Speaker 3: actually off, so you know, there was a lot of

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Speaker 3: things going on. The principle he was off unwell, the

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Speaker 3: principle is now back. He is a very strong, good

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Speaker 3: leader at the school. He's been there for I think

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Speaker 3: about almost five years. And so now they have reintroduced

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Speaker 3: the Yonder pouches and for those that don't know, it's

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Speaker 3: a little pouch that you slip your phone in during

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Speaker 3: the day and it's locked away. So that has got

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Speaker 3: on top of a lot of the you know, sharing

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Speaker 3: of videos and things like that going around. But obviously

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Speaker 3: parents are still you know a little bit concerned about

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Speaker 3: their children going to school, and you know, not to

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Speaker 3: downplay the incidents, but yesterday we saw a child lash

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Speaker 3: out and poke another child with a pencil and that

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Speaker 3: was dealt with, you know, in the school situation, but

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Speaker 3: it just goes to the broader you know community where

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Speaker 3: people think that lashing like that is the way to

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Speaker 3: go about, you know, getting rid of their frustration. And

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Speaker 3: so that's another conversation that the principle is going to be,

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Speaker 3: you know, talking to his leadership team and the staff

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Speaker 3: and how to you know, deal with some of those

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Speaker 3: kinds of issuess that they're still finding.

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Speaker 2: But I've just got thought that sounds of it.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't sound like by the sounds of it, you know,

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Speaker 1: like I know it's been reported as a as a

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Speaker 1: child being stabbed. I mean, is that how you would

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Speaker 1: describe the lashing out with the pencil.

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Speaker 3: I think it's concerning that a child has felt the

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Speaker 3: need to lash out with a pencil and poke someone else.

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Speaker 3: But I think you know, there's a little bit of

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Speaker 3: licensing in the paper of how they've reported it, and

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Speaker 3: to say I'm disappointed is an understatement, and the principal

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Speaker 3: of the school is disappointed as well, you know, because

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Speaker 3: it doesn't paint a very good light on the picture.

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Speaker 3: But when you actually get down to know what the

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Speaker 3: actual problem is, they're not the Facebook picture the actual

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Speaker 3: situation that's going on. You know, the school is doing

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Speaker 3: great things. They've had a lot of support. Yes, I

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Speaker 3: will not say they have not had issues going on there,

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Speaker 3: and we support them to make sure that first and

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Speaker 3: foremost staff and students well being and safety is our

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Speaker 3: number one concern.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess that's the concern here, is that unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: by the sounds of it, you know, there's probably been

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Speaker 1: really heightened anxiety following on from fights and other issues.

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Speaker 1: And then I know, I wouldn't be happy if my

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Speaker 1: child was you know, poked or whatever you want to

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Speaker 1: describe it as by another child lashing out at them

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Speaker 1: with a pencil. In fact, i'd be pretty furious, as

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Speaker 1: I'm sure the parents are. But from what you're saying,

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Speaker 1: there's been a number of steps taken by the school principle,

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Speaker 1: by the Department of Education, to try and sort these

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Speaker 1: issues out that have been going on since the beginning

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Speaker 1: of the year. Joe, I know that there'd been also

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Speaker 1: some wanding happened.

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Speaker 2: Was that at the end of last week, so.

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Speaker 3: Throughout you know, back in October, legislation was introduced provide

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Speaker 3: greater powers to use the handheld scanners across the territory.

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Speaker 3: And the school has had two wanding exercises this year

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Speaker 3: and you know that, and so the listeners out there.

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Speaker 3: No weapons were found in those wanding exercises, and that's

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Speaker 3: a good thing. And I haven't had parents say to

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Speaker 3: me that they were concerned about the wanding. Parents have

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Speaker 3: actually said, well, good, at least we know that, you know,

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Speaker 3: our kids are going to be safe in there. So

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Speaker 3: there's there's obviously not everyone feels the same way, but

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Speaker 3: that wanding exercise just does provide certainty that the school

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Speaker 3: staff know. You know, it's an extra layer of I

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Speaker 3: expose a surety that everyone's safe in a school environment.

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Speaker 1: Look, I wouldn't have an issue with it if I

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Speaker 1: was concerned that kids were going to school, to my

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Speaker 1: children's school with weapons, I wouldn't have an issue with

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Speaker 1: kids and being wanted. I know, not everybody might feel

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Speaker 1: the same as that, But I think that sometimes you've

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Speaker 1: got to take extraordinary measures if you've got ordinary behavior

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Speaker 1: to put it really mildly happening within those schools. So

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Speaker 1: I don't see that as a bad thing, Joe.

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Speaker 3: You mentioned, I don't either. I think prevention is better

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Speaker 3: than cure case.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Joe, you mentioned a moment ago that the school

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Speaker 1: based Constable is there at the Catherine at Catherine High.

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Speaker 1: Is that a permanent position.

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Speaker 3: It is a permanent position, yes, to the school. He

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Speaker 3: does go to other schools as well, but he has

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Speaker 3: an office at the high school and that's to provide

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Speaker 3: programs and to support teachers. It's not for law enforcement

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Speaker 3: at the school. That is not the role of the

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Speaker 3: school based Constable. It is for providing programs, you know,

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Speaker 3: helping students if they want someone to go and talk

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Speaker 3: to about something, and also providing support to classes and

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Speaker 3: teachers in programs that they would be running.

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Speaker 1: Minister, Minister, I have got a comment that came through

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Speaker 1: from a parent in Catherine. Now it says, good morning, Catherine.

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Speaker 1: Schools are having a major problem with youth being sent

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Speaker 1: back to school with ankle bracelets on and continue with

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Speaker 1: poor behavior and when police are contacted, there's no action taken.

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Speaker 1: Two youths with ankle bracelets walked in and out of

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Speaker 1: the school grounds, then stoned the school. Buses and teachers

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Speaker 1: were unable to get the police to attend. The kids

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Speaker 1: wearing these are wearing them with pride in front of

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Speaker 1: their mates, like it's something to be proud of. It's

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Speaker 1: about time we get hard on the people continuing to

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Speaker 1: do the wrong thing. That one there from a disappointed

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Speaker 1: parent in Catherine, Minister, what do you say to that parent?

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Speaker 3: What I would say to that parent is that I

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Speaker 3: have heard that. I've also spoken to the department. The

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Speaker 3: department is not aware of any of these things, but

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Speaker 3: I would urge that parent to send an email, you know,

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Speaker 3: either to my office or to the department and have

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Speaker 3: that followed up on. But I have not heard that

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Speaker 3: from the schools, and I haven't heard that from the department,

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Speaker 3: so I'm not I've heard it in the community. Somebody

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Speaker 3: just mentioned that yesterday, but I haven't heard anything else.

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Speaker 3: And I did follow up on that, but nothing's been reported.

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Speaker 2: Minister.

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Speaker 1: I guess you know the big concern, and I know

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Speaker 1: again you and I have spoken about this before. But

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Speaker 1: from what I can gather, the big concern from a

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Speaker 1: lot of parents at the moment, particularly you know, the

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Speaker 1: parents of kids that are going to school and doing

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Speaker 1: the right thing, is that they feel as though the

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Speaker 1: kids that are not doing the right thing that are

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Speaker 1: coming in getting in fights, you know, allegedly hurting each

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Speaker 1: other with pencils, things like that, that there really isn't

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Speaker 1: a huge amount of consequence for those that are doing

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Speaker 1: the wrong thing. I mean, I've heard of situations where

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Speaker 1: we can't even seen kids to go out and pick

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Speaker 1: rubbish up off the ovals anymore. Like, are we just

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Speaker 1: in a situation here where we've become so soft that

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Speaker 1: if a kid does the wrong thing, you know, we're

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Speaker 1: not even really giving them a consequence to their to

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Speaker 1: their actions.

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Speaker 3: So I know last week Catherine High School did have

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Speaker 3: a bit of an emy Bob happening around the school

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Speaker 3: because I made a comment when I was there, and

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Speaker 3: the principal said, yes, we're having an EMU Bob on Wednesday.

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Speaker 3: I can't remember actually last Wednesday or Wednesday before, So

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Speaker 3: I think that does happen. But I think that is

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Speaker 3: a conversation and I have been having those conversations with

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Speaker 3: the see of Education around all of this, Katie, because

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Speaker 3: I think for a long time we have seen this

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Speaker 3: soft on crime approach in the community that's potentially rolling

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Speaker 3: over into some schools, and we have certainly said that

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Speaker 3: there will be actions and there will be consequences, which

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Speaker 3: is why we've bought back school attendance officers, which are

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Speaker 3: having a good result in the community. And for the

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Speaker 3: listeners out there, the children at the start of the

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Speaker 3: school term that were in those fights were not those

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Speaker 3: children that were long term kids that hadn't been at school.

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Speaker 3: They were kids that that were there last year. So

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Speaker 3: you know, but I do hear what you're saying, and

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Speaker 3: I do hear what the community is saying, and we

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Speaker 3: are certainly having a look at all of those things

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Speaker 3: and talking about them because I think you're right. You know,

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Speaker 3: if you've done the wrong thing, you know, it might

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Speaker 3: be a bit punitive to go and pick up a

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Speaker 3: bag of rubbish or walk around with the teacher, you

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Speaker 3: know more in primary school, not home, But those kind

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Speaker 3: of things are very easy things to potentially knit things

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Speaker 3: in the bud before it escalates. And prevention, as I said,

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Speaker 3: is better than cure.

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Speaker 1: At the other end, Minister, I do want to ask

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Speaker 1: you about another situation in Palmerston. Now I understand that

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Speaker 1: the school that I'm talking about along Emory Avenue is

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Speaker 1: not a public school, but you know there is a

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Speaker 1: duty of care, I know, to all children. We were

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Speaker 1: sent this by a concerned parent earlier in the week

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Speaker 1: and she said, Dear Katie, I'm writing to you regarding

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Speaker 1: ongoing safety issues at the ELC and the primary school

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Speaker 1: on Emory Avenue that have reached a critical point. On Monday,

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Speaker 1: a deeply concerning incident occurred where three intoxicated men were

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Speaker 1: wandering along Emery Avenue. One of these individuals jumped the

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Speaker 1: school fence and entered the ELC yard while children were

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Speaker 1: playing outside. Thankfully, the educators acted swiftly to bring the

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Speaker 1: children inside safely. But these men continued their disruptive behavior

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Speaker 1: down Emery Avenue and on to Victoria Avenue, jumping in

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Speaker 1: front of cars, attempting to enter private properties. Multiple calls

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Speaker 1: were made to emergency services, and this person says they're

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Speaker 1: not sure whether the police ended up catching them, but

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Speaker 1: you know, from what I can gather here, it's not

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Speaker 1: only disruptive, but again, if there is an intoxicated man

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Speaker 1: jumping into the fence, over the fence into the school

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Speaker 1: yard of an early learning center. That's horrifying stuff.

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Speaker 3: It is horrifying stuff. And I am aware of the

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Speaker 3: incident on Emory Avenue, but I don't have any more

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Speaker 3: detail than what you've just shared there. I have actually

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Speaker 3: asked us some more detail from the sheryl from independent schools,

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Speaker 3: but it just again goes to a broader community where

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Speaker 3: they's absolutely not acceptable for people to be intoxicated roaming

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Speaker 3: around our streets. And we have, you know, brought legislation

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Speaker 3: into strengthen the law in those areas. We did come

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Speaker 3: in on a platform of you know, reducing crime across

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Speaker 3: the territory. And whilst you know that is happening in small,

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Speaker 3: incremental levels, you know, for the listeners out there, it

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Speaker 3: is happening. Sometimes it doesn't feel like it is, but

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Speaker 3: it is slowly getting better. I certainly hear that in

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Speaker 3: my community, you know, even just with things like broken windows.

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Speaker 3: You know, we just aren't hearing of those kind of

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Speaker 3: incidents as often and frequently as we used to.

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Speaker 1: Look. I know, though, if you're a parent that had

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Speaker 1: a child at that early learning center and there's somebody

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Speaker 1: intoxic that you'd be terrified and and I think you

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Speaker 1: know as much as people really are hoping that those

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Speaker 1: changes are going to start to make a difference. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the fact is here for the parents of this of

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Speaker 1: this school, you know, they've had things canceled before, like

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Speaker 1: school events. You know, they've had to have a disco

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Speaker 1: called off due to safety concerns. They've had drunken people

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Speaker 1: wandering around in the mornings and in the afternoon in

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Speaker 1: front of the school.

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Speaker 2: And from all accounts of.

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Speaker 1: School doing absolutely everything they can to keep the kids safe.

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Speaker 1: But as you as you've said, you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: a broader issue, but it's an unacceptable one.

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Speaker 3: It is totally unacceptable, Katie. And as the minut for Education,

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Speaker 3: whether it be an independent school, a Catholic school, a

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Speaker 3: government school, it is there is a duty to make

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Speaker 3: sure that children and staff in schools are safe and

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Speaker 3: that they do not have to put up with this

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Speaker 3: kind of behavior. I will be as I said, I

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Speaker 3: will be following that up with sheriff from independent schools

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Speaker 3: and just to see if she's got any more information

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Speaker 3: on that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, let us know how you go, Minister. I do

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Speaker 2: want to ask.

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Speaker 1: I know that there's been some discussion this morning on

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Speaker 1: the ABC about extra, well an additional parent potentially being

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Speaker 1: able to travel on school buses when the contract or

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Speaker 1: when the tender is awarded.

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Speaker 2: Where are things at with this?

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Speaker 1: And I mean it's a bit of a worry when

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Speaker 1: just having the school bus driver is not enough in

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Speaker 1: terms of trying to keep kids safe on our school buses.

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Speaker 3: That's right. So the school bus contract here in Katherine

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Speaker 3: is up to tender and the tender did go out

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Speaker 3: and through Rob Chapman, the school chair of Catherine South,

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Speaker 3: had done a school bus survey and he had results

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Speaker 3: of the survey and I've heard a lot of community

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Speaker 3: concern about their children traveling on the school bus and

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Speaker 3: as to whether they feel safe on that bus as well.

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Speaker 3: So I've taken those concerns to the minister. The minister

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Speaker 3: has put a pause on that tender and he will

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Speaker 3: be certainly reviewing the concerns raised about the current bus

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Speaker 3: contract and about the concerns you know, to make sure

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Speaker 3: that the children are on safe and reliable transport to school.

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Speaker 3: And so that review is he's reviewing that at the moment,

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Speaker 3: and you know, I'll let you know when that is

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Speaker 3: finalized or what the next steps are there. But it

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Speaker 3: is absolutely again unacceptable for kids to be going on

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Speaker 3: the school bus feeling threatened, whether it be through fighting, bullying,

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Speaker 3: edge weapons, whatever that is going on. Totally unacceptable. And

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Speaker 3: I will say that this has been an issue even

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Speaker 3: when my children went on the school bus, but it's

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Speaker 3: certainly escalated and it is not acceptable. And I did

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Speaker 3: say early this morning that when my kids went on

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Speaker 3: there was that extra adult, so you know, that might

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Speaker 3: be something that the contract needs to be looked at.

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Speaker 3: You know, I don't want to put words in the

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Speaker 3: minister's mouth, but you know there is a review happening,

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Speaker 3: and yeah, I'll let you know what happens from that.

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Speaker 3: But Joe really quick ones needs to be safe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they certainly do. Joe really quick one.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, I know that parents are

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Speaker 1: going to have the chance to hear more about the

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Speaker 1: government's planned move away from middle schools this month, with

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Speaker 1: school meetings to be held across the Northern Territory. What

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Speaker 1: exactly is going to be happening and how quickly are

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Speaker 1: we going to see middle schools scrapped?

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Speaker 3: So obviously that's not going to happen overnight, Katie, this

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Speaker 3: is decades old secondary education structure that has been around.

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Speaker 3: The middle school review is underway and that will start

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Speaker 3: to be rolled out from twenty twenty six. But at

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Speaker 3: the moment there's con consultation with those stakeholders and that's

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Speaker 3: including students, families, educators, peak bodies and so with school council.

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Speaker 3: So I said earlier, you know, if you're on a

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Speaker 3: school council or if you'd like to know more about

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Speaker 3: the review or have your say, go along to your

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Speaker 3: school council meetings because you know they'll be t speaking

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Speaker 3: about that in their school council meetings and that kicks

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Speaker 3: off this week. So yeah, there's a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: reviewing going on and obviously there's going to be the

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Speaker 3: focus first of all will be on the urban areas,

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Speaker 3: but that it's sort of it's not going to be

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Speaker 3: the same in Darwin as what it will be in

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Speaker 3: Alice Springers for example, because it has to suit the

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Speaker 3: area where they.

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Speaker 1: Are so well. Joe Hersey, the Minister for Education also

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Speaker 1: the local member for Katherine, really appreciate your time this morning.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having a chat with us.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie, and just a quick positive before I go.

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Speaker 3: Congratulations to Kate McTaggart and Shoon King, who are up

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Speaker 3: for anty Young Achiever Awards, both from Catherine High School.

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Speaker 1: Good.

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Speaker 3: I always have to have a positive in their case.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that is awesome. Good on them.

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Speaker 1: We'd love to have them on at some point. Joe,

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Speaker 1: if we'll get in contact with you and see whether.

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Speaker 3: For you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good stuff, Good on you. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: your time this morning.