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Speaker 1: Right now though, woulds I do want to talk about

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Speaker 1: a revolutionary chat around kids' grades at school. The advice

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Speaker 1: is that they should scrap grades or grading at schools.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because it means it means that the

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Speaker 1: kids will focus more on the learning and less on

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Speaker 1: the grade and how well they do. So you don't

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Speaker 1: actually absorbing the information. You're not learning, you're just learning

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Speaker 1: how to pass a test.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so there's still a past mark. So there's still

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Speaker 2: like some level of well no, because if I'm talking

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Speaker 2: to ten year old me and there's no grade, yeah, see,

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Speaker 2: I'm just writing doodle doodle doodle, burger, burger burger and

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Speaker 2: then going just love the experience of learning. Teach here

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Speaker 2: you go? What's that another? Ayes? I just and not

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Speaker 2: to disrespect the kids of our society, but I just

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Speaker 2: think like having a grade there, it's like when they

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Speaker 2: change sport to no scoring. Yeah, there's something that is

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Speaker 2: for me. It's just like no, because I think kids

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Speaker 2: need to learn how to lose as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's right. And I think the other side of

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Speaker 1: it is it is quite like I think it's a

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Speaker 1: very privileged Western world, first world country sort of dogma

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Speaker 1: because you know, it's I think it's unrealistic for lots

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Speaker 1: of the rest of the world totally that you know,

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Speaker 1: people aren't climbing over the top of each other for

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Speaker 1: a position on a ladder. So it's quite a privileged

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Speaker 1: position to be and to be like, no, we've got

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Speaker 1: enough money and enough stability to not worry about grades. Yeah, Well,

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Speaker 1: other people like no, no, no, I want to prove myself

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Speaker 1: so I can work my ass off and beat you

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Speaker 1: and get a better job, so I can, you know, right, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Develop resilience bouncing back from a bad grade or a

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Speaker 2: bad game.

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Speaker 1: Of it is interesting though. I do think it's interesting

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Speaker 1: because like the chat that I had on the Imperfect

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Speaker 1: podcast with gi van Comberg and Josh van Comberg was

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Speaker 1: about this, because I think, I think that there is

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Speaker 1: something very wrong in teaching kids that the only method

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Speaker 1: of satisfaction that you can get or the only the

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Speaker 1: only mode of happiness that you know is achievement. And

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, when you go to a very privileged,

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Speaker 1: high powered school, or you grow up in a family

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Speaker 1: where you're taught that achievement is the way to be happy,

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Speaker 1: it is really important that you teach kids other methods

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Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, I do agree with that, So maybe

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Speaker 1: the conversation should more be keep the grades, but there

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Speaker 1: are other ways to also achieve and succeed and feel

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Speaker 1: good about yourself at school, because I do think it

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Speaker 1: goes far too far one way at the moment. I

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Speaker 1: really do, particularly for the last two years of school.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, a Saturday afternoon, you might enjoy

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Speaker 1: yourself and if you're good, if you're good at schoo

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Speaker 1: I mean I was good at school, right, So for

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Speaker 1: me to say that this sucks, that's because I'm down

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Speaker 1: the other end of it, and I know that if

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Speaker 1: you if you get caught in that system, it's very

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Speaker 1: hard to get yourself out of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Well, let's go to some current students.

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Speaker 2: We've got T Shirt on the phone here, Hi, T Shirt? Hi,

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Speaker 2: how old are you? I'm eleven years old. You're eleven

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Speaker 2: years old? Okay, and you've got two tests next week? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: What are the tests on? So one of them is

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Speaker 2: on science and the others on.

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Speaker 1: Should they scrap the grades?

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Speaker 2: T Shirt?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you can ask this av. You've got more than

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Speaker 1: three tests this week? Yes, I have?

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Speaker 2: Okay, what are they on? So I've got geography chests,

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Speaker 2: I've got English chests, I've got my science test, and

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Speaker 2: I've got like my Mauth test.

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Speaker 1: So it's nice for you and me. With perspective, woulds

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Speaker 1: keep the grades, teach the kids out to lose? But Ava,

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Speaker 1: you're in the gun right now. You've got three tests

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Speaker 1: this week. Would you scrap the grades? I would scrap

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Speaker 1: the grade?

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Speaker 2: Okay, but hang on, then, Ava, if the grades are scrapped,

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Speaker 2: are you even going to try in the test?

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Speaker 1: Well? What was pressure?

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Speaker 2: Well that's a really good point, and you know, and

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Speaker 2: actually if there's less pressure, you might actually do better.

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Speaker 1: Because the other line here is if you'd flip the

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Speaker 1: model on its head, if it's the chart verse stick thing, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we'll flip the model on its head. And you go, Okay,

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Speaker 1: you know what, you don't want to try, you don't care.

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Speaker 1: You want to write doodleburger on your paper? That's fine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: absolutely fine. Knock myself out, probably not going to go

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Speaker 1: to university, probably not going to probably not going to

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Speaker 1: get one of those jobs that UNI brings. And you

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Speaker 1: might go, great, I don't want that.

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Speaker 2: A good way to find what else can we do

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Speaker 2: for you? And to be honest, rather than.

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Speaker 1: Dragging you through the classes where you're going to just

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Speaker 1: waste your time and hate anyway.

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Speaker 2: And I think the first time you do the doodleburger, doodleburger, hilarious.

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Speaker 2: Second time still funny, third time, still pretty funny, fourth time,

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Speaker 2: fourth time, you're going, I've been over just writing doodle

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Speaker 2: doodle doodle on these tests. And you know what, even

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Speaker 2: if I'd probably start going, I actually figure out these equations.

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Speaker 1: You stop enjoying learning because all you're thinking about is

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Speaker 1: the pressure.

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Speaker 2: I've totally flipped there over the thirteen year old totally

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Speaker 2: flipping there. She just said, less pressure