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Speaker 1: According to a new report I should say from the

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Speaker 1: Australian Strategic Policy Institute, Australia must urgently invest in the

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Speaker 1: North to secure the nation's prosperity, security and resilience. Now,

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Speaker 1: the report Northern Australia Securing a Developing Economy to Secure

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Speaker 1: a Developed Nation, by doctor John Coyn, an adjunct Professor

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Speaker 1: Ian Stratchwell, warns that although the North is central to

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Speaker 1: Australia's future economic trade and its national defense posture, it

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Speaker 1: faces structural challenges that threaten its ability to deliver on

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Speaker 1: that potential. Now joining me on the line is doctor

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Speaker 1: John Coyn, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute's Director of National Security.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, doctor Coin.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. You know what I make heart every

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Speaker 3: time with a long titles. I'm really sorry.

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Speaker 2: We don't mind at all, mate.

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Speaker 1: I think it explains to people what you do, what

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Speaker 1: your job, which is very important. And you know how

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Speaker 1: much I love Northern Australia. So I think this is

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Speaker 1: a report that is definitely worth hearing about.

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Speaker 2: Why did you undertake it? Why was it done?

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Speaker 3: Look, it was about a twelve month thin project and

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Speaker 3: a passion project at the end of the day, I'm

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Speaker 3: in the same way. I love Northern Australia, and all

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Speaker 3: I see when I'm whether I'm in Weeper, whether I'm

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Speaker 3: in Dahwin, whether I'm in Broom, I'd see people all

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Speaker 3: the time who are not asking for handouts, who are

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Speaker 3: sitting there trying to really make economic growth happen in

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Speaker 3: their communities. And also in my workout of the last

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Speaker 3: eight years on Northern Australia, there's been a constant pattern

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Speaker 3: where I see from Federation of now where every ten

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Speaker 3: years people get excited about the North, but you know

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Speaker 3: they they just can't quite land it. The third part was, look,

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Speaker 3: you know I did worry and it took a little while.

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Speaker 3: You know, if I call I love the North, but

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Speaker 3: calling it a developing economy and a developed nation did

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Speaker 3: run the risk of upsetting some people in the North

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Speaker 3: and it wasn't meant to do that. What it's meant

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Speaker 3: to do is be sort of a cash cris to say, look,

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Speaker 3: we really need to do more in Northern Australia. Some

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Speaker 3: of the things we've got now are doing well, like

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Speaker 3: the Northern Australian Infrastructure Facility, but that is not going

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Speaker 3: to be enough and the policies that we use in

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Speaker 3: places like Sydney and Melbourne for economic growth are not

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Speaker 3: going to be enough to cool and generate more growth

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Speaker 3: in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 2: So John, tell us what exactly did you look into?

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Speaker 3: Really what we did is we went back through being

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Speaker 3: and I went back through and we looked at a

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Speaker 3: range of economic factors. And here we're talking about all

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Speaker 3: those sort of economic figures that the general public they

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Speaker 3: you know, they'll come out in the NT news every

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Speaker 3: sort of six to twelve months and people say about

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Speaker 3: growth or investment, about a private sector investment, about revenue, populations,

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Speaker 3: education standards. And then we started looking try to compare

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Speaker 3: them to the rest of Australia to prove our theory

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Speaker 3: that you know, there are in fact two economies in

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Speaker 3: Australia and I've said this to you before, the economy

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Speaker 3: in the South and the economy in the North. And

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Speaker 3: that's what we set out to do. But more importantly,

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Speaker 3: what we wanted to do is look and go, well,

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Speaker 3: how can we provide some recommendations and a roadmap that

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Speaker 3: is somewhat different that addresses these problems. And we also

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Speaker 3: were left and this is a very difficult question, and

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Speaker 3: in fact it came up in some of the peer

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Speaker 3: reviews from a colleague of mine, and that was, you know,

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Speaker 3: why why does a resource rich place like Northern Australia,

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Speaker 3: why is it an economy more like Sudan that it

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Speaker 3: is like the UAE or Qatar in terms of being

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Speaker 3: resource rich, but no real money there. And so what

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Speaker 3: we sort of do was started to try to look

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Speaker 3: at how can we plot a path towards that.

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Speaker 2: And what's that path look like? What do we need

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Speaker 2: to do? Because it's a really good point.

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Speaker 1: That you make, why are we not you know, why

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Speaker 1: are we not doing better than what we should be?

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Speaker 3: Look, you know what we've sort of developed and the idea.

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Speaker 3: As soon as someone comes up with an idea, there'll

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Speaker 3: be a thousand knockers out there. He'll say that why

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Speaker 3: it won't work, or separately that there's better ways to

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Speaker 3: do it. So what we wanted to do was draw

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Speaker 3: a line of the scene. So we developed a sort

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Speaker 3: of three phase idea and the first one is about

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Speaker 3: strategic alignment, which is what needs to be done in

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty six, and that's first off, the North and

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Speaker 3: people trying to do things in the North. One of

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Speaker 3: the big inhibiting factors is trying to raise capital, so

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Speaker 3: money to invest, and so there we thought about what

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Speaker 3: we really need to do is establish some sort of

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Speaker 3: fufilling different from the KNAFE that actually has through probably

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Speaker 3: a similar mechanism to the National Reconstruction Fund and is

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Speaker 3: able to accept the higher risk of investing in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 3: Big part also is really about funding critical enablers, and

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Speaker 3: that's the infrastructure that we need. So you know, it's

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Speaker 3: really hard at the moment as it stands. If I

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Speaker 3: want to start a new mine, a new agricultural acttivity

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Speaker 3: and new manufacturing activity in Northern Australia, I have to

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Speaker 3: pay for all the infrastructure, the roads, the head of

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Speaker 3: works and everything else to make that happen. And so

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Speaker 3: in a way that you don't have to do if

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Speaker 3: you're doing that sort of activity in the Southern States.

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Speaker 3: So really about funding critical enablers. The other part is

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Speaker 3: is that we do need to see greater collaboration between

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Speaker 3: the state and territory governments and the federal government. Quite often,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's a numerable number of grant programs and

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Speaker 3: other facilities and other arrangements, and if you're a business

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Speaker 3: person operating out of matterancor and you're looking at how

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Speaker 3: to navigate that system, it is just so complex and

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Speaker 3: so that comes to also matting it. The base two

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Speaker 3: is really about localization and leverage, and I can give

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Speaker 3: you a whole heap of things, but the bottom line

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Speaker 3: is is that if you want to work in Northern Australia,

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Speaker 3: then you have to pay. You have to pay and

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Speaker 3: engage with the local economy. That means, you know, as

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Speaker 3: much as possible, you know, local supplies and local content,

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Speaker 3: and that may cost more in the short term, but

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Speaker 3: unfortunately that is the only way that we will drive

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Speaker 3: growth in businesses across Northern Australia.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 3: The other thing too is we do have to have

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Speaker 3: them think about regional capability centers and that means that

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Speaker 3: you know, like not all places are going to be

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Speaker 3: able to grow at the same rate. So you know,

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Speaker 3: here there's no doubt that towns like towns will Hans Darwin.

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Speaker 3: You know, they should really be hubs of industrial activity

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Speaker 3: for the North and that's where we should focus, at

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Speaker 3: least at the start point our efforts. But very much

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Speaker 3: all of this process is about national integration and it's

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Speaker 3: building the infrastructure both. You know, at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, it is a travesty that people in Taiwan

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Speaker 3: still almost on an annual basis, have their roads cut

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Speaker 3: off by flood events that we know will occur each year.

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Speaker 3: We can sort of understand it if you're in Weeper,

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Speaker 3: but in Darwin that's something that's just unacceptable. It is

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Speaker 3: as well, John.

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Speaker 2: How do you, like, how do we get past it?

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Speaker 1: Because I think, you know, politically, the way I kind

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Speaker 1: of see what happens. I guess is that because our

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Speaker 1: population is not as great as what it is in

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Speaker 1: some suburbs of Sydney for example. You know, when it

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Speaker 1: comes to votes, and when it comes to winning elections

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Speaker 1: on a federal stage, you know, the Northern Territory or

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Speaker 1: Kanninara or Cans may not win it, you know, for

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Speaker 1: whoever's vying to be the next Prime minister. But the

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Speaker 1: reality of it is you do actually need to invest

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Speaker 1: in regional Australia and what Regional Australia does for the

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Speaker 1: rest of Australia is quite phenomenal. But how do you

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Speaker 1: sort of you know, how do you sell that sizzle?

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Speaker 1: I suppose to to the FEDS for example, when you know, fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: I know they'll always say that they're going to invest

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Speaker 1: in the North, or they're going to do this, they're

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Speaker 1: going to do that, but you know, at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, the votes are in those major centers.

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Speaker 3: Look, Katie, I'm a number of years ago just when

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Speaker 3: I just after I started at the Australian Strategic Policy Institute,

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Speaker 3: I was doing a Sky News interview and I was

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Speaker 3: getting hammered hard by an interviewer on live TV and

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Speaker 3: they asked me this question. You know, it was about

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Speaker 3: a specific decision and they said, oh, you know, was

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Speaker 3: it a political decision? And then the answer was, We'll look,

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Speaker 3: all the decisions that are made in Canberra have a

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Speaker 3: political dimension. So yes, you are right there. You know

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Speaker 3: there's politics have at play, but you know there's no

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Speaker 3: option to give up on this. So the option here

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Speaker 3: is is what we need to do is pull in

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Speaker 3: that political power from across all of the North and

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Speaker 3: believe I'm not on both sides of the when it

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Speaker 3: comes to representation in the North is a great deal

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Speaker 3: of agreement and push forward on terms of support the

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Speaker 3: Northern development. Secondly, as we have to wrap in those

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Speaker 3: states and territories who also you know, before COVID, people

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Speaker 3: said the Federation was dead and that you know, the

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Speaker 3: Commonwealth government was taking up all the power. Well COVID

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Speaker 3: nineteen showed just how powerful the states and territories really

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Speaker 3: are and the Federation today is alive as well, so

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Speaker 3: that there is that's additional political pressure. And the other

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Speaker 3: part is is that you know, if you don't spend

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Speaker 3: that dollar to day, let me assure your history has

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Speaker 3: shown us that you'll be spending significantly more money in

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Speaker 3: the future. Backing in Northern Australia where you have to

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Speaker 3: paper services anyway, I guess there's a real strategic rhyme

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Speaker 3: and reason to this. Lots of work to be done

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Speaker 3: and I'm not naive about it, but I do believe

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Speaker 3: in Northern Australia. I do believe there's opportunity. I also

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Speaker 3: know that you know those ten year cycles that I

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Speaker 3: talked about earlier that have happened since federation, that's made

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Speaker 3: some people across Northern Australia cynical and tied, and understandably so.

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Speaker 3: But this is where you know, sort of sitting it

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Speaker 3: going it's impossible or it's difficult. There's no doubt that

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Speaker 3: that it's difficult, But what are the other options? So

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Speaker 3: my viewpoint here with the report really was is to

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Speaker 3: offer government and the general public something core, which is

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Speaker 3: some contested policy advice. Yeah, to draw conversations and improve

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Speaker 3: the actual discussion as we're having today. And so you know,

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Speaker 3: with the choices here are we sit and let it

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Speaker 3: play out as it is, or we do something different.

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Speaker 3: You know, the very local content on this. You know,

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Speaker 3: at the end of the day, struck very proud of

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Speaker 3: its relationship with Japan. As example, IMPEX has been brought

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Speaker 3: significant opportunity in the Northern Territory and some other challenges,

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Speaker 3: but the majority of impex's workforce now is located in

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Speaker 3: Perth and a majority of the income related to it

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Speaker 3: ends up down there. So you know, that's a story

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Speaker 3: of how local content could be somewhat different.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and how you really trying to get some of

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Speaker 1: those major organizations to stay, you know, in places like

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Speaker 1: Darwin rather than setting up headquarters then in the likes

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Speaker 1: of Perth. You know, I think it's really fascinating John,

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Speaker 1: as you know, as I said right from the get go.

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Speaker 2: I love Northern Australia.

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Speaker 1: To me, I just can't understand why the rest of

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Speaker 1: Australia doesn't want to live in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 3: But I get this all the time. So the next

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Speaker 3: thing people say, look, I'm quite often I've been said

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Speaker 3: about you know, why do I have a center in

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Speaker 3: Canberra not in Darwin? And I quite often go back

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Speaker 3: to the various people say, well, at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day, I don't have to convince the people in

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Speaker 3: Darwin or in Cawns or in Towns or how great

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia is. The work that I've got to do

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Speaker 3: is down here in Canada. But you know, there is

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Speaker 3: this huge challenge of attracting people. There is unfortunately some

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Speaker 3: poor mythology around what it's like to live in Northern Australia.

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Speaker 3: You know, when I come up, I'm going to come

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Speaker 3: up numerous times a year, and I make sure that

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Speaker 3: I bring my family up there. My why from my

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Speaker 3: twelve year old up to Darwin at least once a year.

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Speaker 3: I love the Northern Territory. I love Northern Australia. You're

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Speaker 3: absolutely right, But you know, at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: there is the mythology that we have to try to

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Speaker 3: untick and secondly that economic growth and job opportunities that

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Speaker 3: will really drive population growth and the future development of

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia. And that's not just about what's good for

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia, it's what's good for Australia economically. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor John Coyne, I always appreciate your time. It

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Speaker 1: is wonderful to catch up with you this morning, and

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Speaker 1: I appreciate you talking us through this report. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: I think it's really interesting and it is absolutely essential

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Speaker 1: that those discussions have had.

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Speaker 2: Thanks Cattie, good to catch up with you, Thank you,

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Speaker 2: Thank you,