WEBVTT - Does journalism need more divergent thinkers? 0:00:00.560 --> 0:00:04.080 Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:06.880 Ohs oh, now it makes sense. 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.760 Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday, 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.520 the twentieth of September. I'm Emma, I'm Zara, a new 0:00:21.560 --> 0:00:25.040 TV show has started a conversation about diversity in media 0:00:25.160 --> 0:00:30.040 and the representation of autistic people in Australian workplaces. The 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:34.520 Assembly on ABC features a collective of autistic journalism students 0:00:34.680 --> 0:00:39.640 mentored by ABC veteran journalist Lease Sales. Over six episodes, 0:00:39.720 --> 0:00:43.640 we see the students interview some of Australia's biggest names, 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.600 from Hamish Blake to the Prime Minister. This feel good 0:00:47.600 --> 0:00:51.320 series has not only entertained audiences, it started a broader 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:56.320 discussion around representation, highlighting the strengths of neurodiversity in a 0:00:56.360 --> 0:00:59.800 way you might not have seen on screen before. To 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.960 well us through The Assembly and its broader impact, We're 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.319 very excited to be joined by Lee Sales herself in 0:01:06.400 --> 0:01:10.360 today's deep dive. But first, Zara. What's making headlines. 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:19.280 Australia's population has officially passed twenty seven million. That's according 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.720 to the latest figures from the Australian. 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:22.480 Bureau of Statistics. 0:01:22.920 --> 0:01:25.760 The population grew by more than six hundred thousand in 0:01:25.800 --> 0:01:29.360 the twelve months to March twenty twenty four. Net overseas 0:01:29.400 --> 0:01:32.320 migration that's the number of people who arrived in Australia 0:01:32.400 --> 0:01:34.840 minus the number of people who left, was a key 0:01:34.959 --> 0:01:37.720 driver of population growth, with the rest made up of 0:01:37.800 --> 0:01:41.959 new births. WA had the fastest growing population, while Tasmania 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:43.160 saw the slowest growth. 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:50.040 Australia's unemployment rate remained unchanged at four point two percent 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.240 in August. According to the latest ABS figures. The unemployment 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:56.760 rate reflects the percentage of people who were looking for 0:01:56.800 --> 0:02:00.840 work but couldn't find any. This figure is ceas nearly adjusted, 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:04.440 meaning the ABS that's the Australian Bureau of Statistics has 0:02:04.480 --> 0:02:08.160 removed the effects of calendar specific patterns from the data, 0:02:08.320 --> 0:02:11.399 like fruit picking in summer or Christmas casuals in retail 0:02:11.400 --> 0:02:14.880 in December. Over the last two months, unemployment has been 0:02:14.919 --> 0:02:18.560 at its highest since November twenty twenty one, despite the 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:21.079 number of employed people increasing. 0:02:24.200 --> 0:02:26.840 Some ex users in Brazil have regained access to the 0:02:26.840 --> 0:02:31.000 platform after an automatic update the Spider nationwide ban imposed 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.959 by the country Supreme Court last month. According to the 0:02:33.960 --> 0:02:39.320 Brazilian Association of internet and telecommunications providers. X changed network 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:43.040 providers to a service that has more efficient resistance against blocking. 0:02:43.560 --> 0:02:46.000 In a statement, X said the switch was to continue 0:02:46.000 --> 0:02:49.800 providing optimal service to our users, and the renewed access 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:54.280 for some Brazilian users was inadvertent and temporary. It said, quote, 0:02:54.320 --> 0:02:58.119 we expect the platform to be inaccessible again shortly. If 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.760 you want to understand more about the context of this story, 0:03:00.800 --> 0:03:03.359 we did do a podcast on X and Brazil a 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:05.560 little while ago, so we will throw that link in 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:06.960 today's show notes. 0:03:09.480 --> 0:03:13.520 And today's good news. Norway has become the first country 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.560 in the world to have more electric cars than petrol 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:19.919 cars on its roads. The director of the Norwegian Road 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:24.280 Federation called the milestone historic, attributing the uptake of EV's 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.560 to government incentives including lower taxes, tolls and parking fees 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:32.720 for evs, as well as bus lane exemptions. The federation 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:35.680 says the country's new challenge will be to have EV's 0:03:35.720 --> 0:03:39.880 outnumbered diesel powered cars, which is projected to be achieved 0:03:39.960 --> 0:03:42.680 in twenty twenty six. We'll be back with the Deep 0:03:42.720 --> 0:03:49.000 Dive right after this. The new ABC doco series The 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:52.640 Assembly has captured the hearts of many It's a show 0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:56.040 that's brought conversations about autism and diversity in media to 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.360 a mainstream audience. And who better to talk us through 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:02.600 the impact of The Assembly than the woman who mentored 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:07.480 its cast. Lee sALS is one of Australia's most prominent journalists, 0:04:07.600 --> 0:04:11.400 a renowned interviewer, and we are delighted to have her 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:15.280 on the podcast today. Lee Sales, Welcome to the podcast. 0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:16.680 Thank you so much for having. 0:04:16.480 --> 0:04:19.359 Me, Thank you for being here. We're talking today, of course, 0:04:19.400 --> 0:04:22.640 about The Assembly, a show that brings together a group 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:26.359 of autistic people who are interested in pursuing journalism. But 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:29.040 for anyone listening who might not have seen the program, 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.000 how would you describe it in your words? 0:04:31.720 --> 0:04:32.080 Okay? 0:04:32.400 --> 0:04:37.240 It's fifteen autistic people who are given some training in 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.800 the basics of journalism and then I work with them 0:04:39.800 --> 0:04:43.840 as a mentor. Then they every week are told that 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:45.799 they're going to be interviewing a celebrity or a sports 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.560 person or some other notable Australian. I work with them 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.039 to help them craft the questions, and then as a 0:04:51.040 --> 0:04:53.200 group they interview that one person. 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:56.560 What was that mentoring process like for you? Had you 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:58.120 ever done anything like that before? 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:01.560 I actually after I finished anchoring seven point thirty, one 0:05:01.560 --> 0:05:03.640 of the things I asked the ABC was to try 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:06.120 to do a job that carved out more time for 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.080 me to work with other reporters and younger reporters to 0:05:09.120 --> 0:05:11.479 pass on some knowledge and skills. I really love doing that, 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:13.680 so that's actually part of my job description to do that. 0:05:14.160 --> 0:05:17.080 So I do that quite a lot around the place 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.640 in the ABC, So that side of. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.320 It wasn't new to me. 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:22.599 What was new to me was dealing with all the 0:05:22.640 --> 0:05:26.640 different kinds of people who because autism is such a 0:05:26.680 --> 0:05:29.839 wide variety of presentations, so everyone's kind of different. So 0:05:29.960 --> 0:05:32.520 dealing with all these people to try to assist them 0:05:32.520 --> 0:05:35.279 to find what they wanted to ask, and to also 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:37.560 just give them the confidence to do it, because it's 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:39.000 a big thing to have to stand up in front 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:41.680 of everyone and ask questions of the Prime Minister or 0:05:41.760 --> 0:05:42.360 something like that. 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:44.440 Yeah, exactly, I wanted to talk to you a little 0:05:44.480 --> 0:05:47.280 bit about how you kind of developed that trust and 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:51.680 you helped those journalists feel safe. Obviously a diverse range 0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.960 of comfort and experience levels and skills. There's this disclaimer 0:05:57.040 --> 0:05:59.000 that one of the students leads at the start of 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.560 each interview that I really loved, where you know, they 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.200 kind of established that this is a safe space, that 0:06:04.320 --> 0:06:06.480 you know, the talent are in a safe space, there 0:06:06.480 --> 0:06:10.640 are no questions off the table. How did you navigate 0:06:10.839 --> 0:06:13.960 helping them feel safe and confident and trusted. 0:06:14.600 --> 0:06:16.359 I think there are a couple of layers to it. 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:19.080 One of the really important ones was that the producers 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.479 of the show, which was a production company called Helium 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:25.240 in conjunction with the ABC, worked very closely with a 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:29.400 group called Aspect, which is an autism body to kind 0:06:29.440 --> 0:06:31.960 of create a space that people would feel comfortable with 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:34.440 and to use them as consultants for advice about how 0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:37.160 to create a space that's ticking all the boxes you 0:06:37.200 --> 0:06:39.320 need for television in terms of lights and equipment and 0:06:39.360 --> 0:06:42.320 the whole rigamarole, but to also make it autism friendly. 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:44.960 And so before I would even get. 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:47.359 Involved, there was already a level I guess of comfort 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.680 and familiarity and people being made to feel like we're 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.480 here to make you feel like you know, this is okay. 0:06:54.120 --> 0:06:57.520 But then also for me, I think it's the same 0:06:57.560 --> 0:06:59.719 thing that makes anyone comfortable in an interview, which is 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.560 just listening really carefully to them and making it about 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.279 them and not about you. So I would always try 0:07:05.320 --> 0:07:08.000 to be paying attention and getting to know everyone and 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:09.960 making them feel like I was interested in them and 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:14.360 cared about them, which I did. And I think that 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:17.120 people just sense that if you're genuine about that, and 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.320 that that enables people to feel kind of relaxed. And 0:07:20.360 --> 0:07:22.760 even you know, in my job, when I'm interviewing people, 0:07:22.760 --> 0:07:25.080 I'm all the time trying to give people that sense 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:27.080 that they're in a kind of safe place. 0:07:27.240 --> 0:07:28.120 Yeah. 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.840 Similarly, for the talent, was there a bit of navigating 0:07:32.200 --> 0:07:36.040 their concerns or their insecurities about what they were walking into. 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:39.000 Definitely, so, because I think for the talent, the show 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.440 had never been on before, so they didn't really have 0:07:41.520 --> 0:07:45.040 anything to compare it to or to know what to expect. 0:07:45.080 --> 0:07:46.480 And so you can imagine the pitch. 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.760 You know, you're in the prime Minister and go, Okay, 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.000 we've got fifteen autistic people. They're all going to interview 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.240 you at once. They can ask whatever they like. It'll 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:54.600 go for an hour and a half and once we 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:56.840 get going, I'll have limited control over the situation. 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:58.600 It's not the most we. 0:07:58.680 --> 0:08:01.360 Can possibly go wrong for a politician. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.280 Exactly so I think, you know, for everyone who agreed 0:08:05.280 --> 0:08:07.480 to be in it, I so appreciated it because there 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:09.520 was a bit of trust involved that it's going to 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:12.800 be okay, and I thought that was just really wonderful 0:08:12.840 --> 0:08:14.280 that they were all willing to kind of give it 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:14.480 a go. 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:15.680 So that was lovely. 0:08:16.320 --> 0:08:19.560 A lot of the students involved, we hear a bit 0:08:19.560 --> 0:08:25.880 about their personal lives, and many of them have experienced bullying, loneliness, isolation. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:27.800 What was the. 0:08:27.720 --> 0:08:32.880 Significance of giving those people access to some of the 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:36.400 most influential names in the country, not only sitting them 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:38.720 in the same room, but giving them their time. 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:42.800 It was so lovely to be around it because the 0:08:42.880 --> 0:08:46.199 group of students would always be so thrilled and excited 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.040 about whoever was coming in, and so that was just 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:51.360 so nice because you know, I've been a journalist for 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.480 thirty years, and so when the Prime Minister's coming in, 0:08:53.600 --> 0:08:56.560 I tend to just feel nervous and worried and anxious 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:59.719 and pressure, whereas for this group, they'd be like, oh 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:01.800 my god, I am going to be talking to the. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:02.760 Prime minister right. 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.800 So it just reminded you what a privilege that is 0:09:05.840 --> 0:09:08.640 that we get to do that. In journalism all the time, 0:09:09.320 --> 0:09:12.839 and it was just such a kind of positive environment 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:16.520 to be around. Because the other thing, too was the 0:09:16.640 --> 0:09:18.840 nature of the questions and the way they were asked. 0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:20.559 There was never really an agenda. 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.760 It was just whatever they were interested in or curious about, 0:09:23.880 --> 0:09:26.680 and so that also was a different kind of vibe 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:29.400 to what media interviews or press conferences can be like. 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:31.040 So it was just lovely being around it. 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:33.640 Yeah, it was that kind of lack of agenda that 0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:37.960 I noticed really put the interview subjects at ease in 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:40.760 a way I hadn't seen before. We've all seen Anthony 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.640 Albanezi interviewed one hundred times, You've interviewed him a hundred times, 0:09:43.679 --> 0:09:47.200 but the kind of relaxed nature of it being a 0:09:47.280 --> 0:09:49.319 really pure sort of space. 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.640 And you see that from the way the questions are asked, 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:55.720 like just the genuine sort of interest. The other thing, 0:09:55.920 --> 0:09:58.480 other than the fact that things were asked without any 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:01.480 kind of parent agenda, was every question, whether it was 0:10:01.520 --> 0:10:03.960 a really serious one like what are you doing to 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:07.520 help people with disabilities get employment? Or how many times 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.640 have you kissed Jody, everything was asked with the same 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:13.800 level of emotional intensity, and so it's a really I 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.400 think interesting experience for the person being interviewed, because it's 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.360 this wildly veering rollercoaster that you're never kind of sure 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:22.760 where it is. Ras say, if you come in for 0:10:22.840 --> 0:10:25.800 an interview with me, and you're familiar with how I interview, 0:10:26.080 --> 0:10:29.240 you've probably got a fair sense of how that will go. 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.320 You won't know every single thing, but you'd have a 0:10:31.360 --> 0:10:34.920 reasonable idea what to expect. Whereas who could possibly expect 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.840 a question like how much money do you have in 0:10:36.880 --> 0:10:37.559 dollars and cents? 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:38.960 Which was what Amos Blake. 0:10:38.720 --> 0:10:42.520 Got A asked that question ruthless but amazing and yielded 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:44.520 really really interesting It was great. 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:45.439 Yeah, I loved it too. 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:50.600 Thinking about then, that sort of divergent thinker's approach to 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.960 an interview and that curiosity and positivity that we saw. 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:56.120 Do we need more of that in media? 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.679 Well? I thought it was a fantastic reminder when you're 0:10:59.800 --> 0:11:02.560 in interviewing somebody, especially somebody who's been interviewed a lot, 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.400 like a politician or a celebrity or a sportsperson, to 0:11:05.640 --> 0:11:08.160 think really carefully about what you might be able to 0:11:08.200 --> 0:11:10.760 ask them that they haven't been asked a million times before. 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.600 You know, what are not the obvious questions, what might 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:17.400 be things that build rapport And so I thought it 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.880 was a really useful reminder to do that, and also 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:23.680 a useful reminder for journalists to approach things completely open 0:11:23.720 --> 0:11:26.360 mindedly and to not go into things with an agenda, 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.800 because I just think the talent can kind of sense that, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.760 and I've found in my own career you can pretty 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.800 much ask somebody anything if you ask it with genuine curiosity. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:40.400 So you can, you know, ask something even quite personal 0:11:40.480 --> 0:11:43.840 or offensive if you preface it by saying, look, you know, 0:11:44.240 --> 0:11:45.920 I hope this question is not going to offend you, 0:11:45.960 --> 0:11:48.320 and you don't have to answer it, of course, but 0:11:48.440 --> 0:11:50.960 I just wondered, you know, why did you steal that money? 0:11:51.080 --> 0:11:52.920 Or you know, if you ask something in that kind 0:11:52.960 --> 0:11:55.720 of a manner, that's far more likely to elicit and 0:11:55.800 --> 0:11:58.920 engage response than you know, being on why did you 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.280 steal the money? Yeah, So it was just a reminder 0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:05.400 of those things, like having that kind of open mindedness 0:12:05.640 --> 0:12:08.160 and just going in with a spirit of curiosity is 0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:08.880 really good. 0:12:09.480 --> 0:12:11.480 Of course, with the assembly, we had a room of 0:12:11.559 --> 0:12:15.960 fifteen autistic student journalists. That is not a reality that 0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.880 is reflected in most press conference rooms, in most newsrooms 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:23.640 around the country. Do you think that this shows us 0:12:23.840 --> 0:12:25.199 that that needs to change. 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.080 Yeah. I hope that it does lead not just to 0:12:28.720 --> 0:12:31.079 employment for the people in the show, if they want 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.800 it in media, but even just for them that the 0:12:33.880 --> 0:12:35.760 confidence they got from that experience that they might be 0:12:35.800 --> 0:12:37.520 able to take into whatever they choose to do. 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.000 I do think that we need to. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.160 Have a more open minded approach to the kinds of 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:46.120 people we employ in journalism, because otherwise there's just these 0:12:46.200 --> 0:12:49.679 whole and not just in neurodivergence, in all sorts of things. 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.640 There's this whole kind of series of blind spots that 0:12:52.640 --> 0:12:55.240 we have. If we just employ people who went to 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:59.240 private schools and grew up in inner city Sydney or Melbourne, 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:02.079 we're going to get a particular kind of people who 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:05.040 are working in journalism, and so we need to kind of. 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:06.480 Look further afield. 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:09.120 And I think, you know, with this show, what it 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:12.160 demonstrated at the end of the day is even if 0:13:12.200 --> 0:13:15.840 you strip aside the worthiness of doing a show with 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.640 autistic people, it's just an entertaining show. And so I 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.640 think what it proved is you can make an entertaining 0:13:22.679 --> 0:13:25.720 piece of television. Forget the kind of diversity goals. You 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.600 can make entertaining television with a diverse group of people. 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:33.440 Do you think there is fear and hesitation from employers, 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:35.800 you know, the whole from the whole spectrum of the 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:40.160 production company to journalists and the experience. Are we too 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.000 afraid to lean in to those conversations. 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:44.559 I think there is a degree of that. 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:46.520 And I noticed even when I was doing the publicity 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.640 rounds for the show, one of the things that came 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.720 up was language. So, for example, you would have noticed 0:13:51.720 --> 0:13:54.360 I've been saying autistic people. One of the interviewers who 0:13:54.520 --> 0:13:56.679 was talking to me, high profile interviewer, said, Oh, I 0:13:56.760 --> 0:13:58.280 was really worried about this because I wasn't sure if 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:01.280 I should say people with autism more autistic people. The 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:04.840 advice from aspect was autistic people. But that's the kind 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:08.480 of thing that makes people feel worried about, well, should 0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:10.720 I do an interview about this or just avoid it? 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.200 Because if I misspeak, then I could be at the 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.400 center of some kind of big controversy and then be 0:14:16.480 --> 0:14:19.920 in trouble and everything could fall apart. And so I 0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:22.080 think there's two ways we can look at that. One 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:24.280 is I think we all just need to kind of 0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:27.400 educate ourselves a bit better about things. But the other 0:14:27.440 --> 0:14:29.880 thing too is to make sure when people are well 0:14:29.880 --> 0:14:32.200 intentioned and they do make mistakes, that it doesn't turn 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:35.040 into catastrophe. So there has to be kind of I think, 0:14:35.440 --> 0:14:39.000 just general understanding and compassion at all ends. But I 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:40.280 do think there's a little bit of fear. 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.120 Did you experience that yourself in the room with the 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.080 journals you were mentoring them, working on their questions when 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:50.280 you went into it initially for the first episode, did 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.400 you have a little bit of that hesitation in your 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:52.960 own self? 0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:55.080 Not at the point at which I went in to 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.560 shoot the show, but when I was approached about doing it, 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.760 I had exactly those thoughts about, well, is it all 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:01.680 do side risk for me? What if I said a 0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:03.640 foot wrong? Everyone I'll be looking to, you know, kick 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.600 me in the pants, you know, like a lot of 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.480 things in life. Actually, when you're working with the people involved, 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:12.120 it's completely awesome and fine. It's just the kind of 0:15:12.200 --> 0:15:14.280 fear I guess, based around the kind of stuff we 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.600 see on social media. You just think, oh, maybe I'll 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.200 find myself the target of a whole lot of you know, people, 0:15:20.520 --> 0:15:23.640 So that thought did cross my mind, but then you know, 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.680 the people involved on the show were just absolutely delightful. 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:30.880 What comes next for these fifteen journals? Have any of 0:15:30.920 --> 0:15:34.880 them gone on to continue pursuing journalism job offers? 0:15:35.560 --> 0:15:38.600 So all fifteen were offered a paid internship at the 0:15:38.640 --> 0:15:41.200 ABC if they wanted it, and everyone accepted it, which 0:15:41.280 --> 0:15:43.840 was lovely. The thing that's going to be interesting is 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.800 to see, you know, like, say, for example, I went 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.880 to university with say thirty people who were in my 0:15:47.920 --> 0:15:50.200 course at the time into journalism. I think within about 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:52.760 two years only maybe ten people were still in journalism, 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:55.560 and today probably only two are still in journalism. So 0:15:55.680 --> 0:15:58.240 sometimes people dip a toe in media. They decide, oh, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.680 it's not actually for me. I don't like deadlines or 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:02.640 I don't like not knowing what I'm doing every day. 0:16:03.320 --> 0:16:05.760 So you know, it'll be interesting to see of this 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.440 group whether anyone's actually decides yeah, you know, I really 0:16:09.480 --> 0:16:12.040 would like to do this. One of the great things 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.280 has been while it's been on air, various contacts of 0:16:15.280 --> 0:16:17.400 mine have wrung me to say, I think I could 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:20.720 probably offer some work to that person. Yeah, based on 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.480 like the kind of interests that the different students showed, 0:16:24.040 --> 0:16:27.840 So that's actually been just fantastic to see. You know, 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.320 hopefully some opportunities come up for people, and so if 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.080 we could kind of get to the other side of 0:16:33.080 --> 0:16:36.760 this and see some of them landing with some work 0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.480 that they want to do, I'd be so happy. 0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.960 That would be amazing. Just the influence of the right 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:44.640 people watching the right show at the right time really 0:16:44.760 --> 0:16:48.760 goes to that issue of representation and how powerful it 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:49.120 can be. 0:16:49.200 --> 0:16:50.560 Well, that's exactly right. 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:53.280 And also just I think to encourage people, you know, 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:55.040 if you're listening to this, if you ever see something 0:16:55.040 --> 0:16:56.720 on TV and you think, oh, I could make a 0:16:56.720 --> 0:16:59.480 difference with that, to just pick up the phone and 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:01.440 think who you know, or just drop them a line 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.000 via their website or whatever. Because many times in my 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:07.439 career people have rung. Like I remember once we had 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.520 a story on seven point thirty about a woman who 0:17:10.560 --> 0:17:12.600 had been caught in floods in northern New South Wales 0:17:12.640 --> 0:17:15.080 and left homeless. And I won't name the person, but 0:17:15.320 --> 0:17:18.879 quite prominent, wealthy Australian businessman rang and he paid for 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:20.600 her rent for a year while she and her kids 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.320 got on her feet. Another time, Ben Mendelssohn, the Australian actor. 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:25.240 He rang. 0:17:25.280 --> 0:17:28.520 We had this amazing story about this initiative where a 0:17:28.600 --> 0:17:31.480 mum of a teenager with special needs had organized this 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:34.199 kind of dance and it was for other people with 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.240 special needs because she said it's hard for those kids 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:39.359 to ever really go to an environment that's kind of 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.919 going to be safe for them, and so she'd kind 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:43.600 of organized this thing and paid for it out of 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:45.679 her own pocket and so on, and you know, they 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:47.320 didn't have a lot of money to keep doing it 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:49.639 as a regular thing, but we had footage from the 0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:51.639 event and the kids had such a great time. And 0:17:51.680 --> 0:17:54.439 then Ben Mendelsson was watching the ABC on iView in 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.120 LA and then he got in touch to say I'll 0:17:57.160 --> 0:17:58.919 pay for another one of those things, and so he 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:00.520 just paid for them to have another one. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.920 Wow, yeah that is so cool, so cool. Yeah. 0:18:04.040 --> 0:18:06.360 So you just never know who's paying attention total cares 0:18:06.359 --> 0:18:08.080 and what a difference they might And you can really 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.440 really make a big difference to somebody if there are 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:16.240 employers watching the assembly thinking gosh, I've been wrong about 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:20.400 autistic people, or I want a more diverse workplace, but 0:18:20.480 --> 0:18:23.560 they don't know where to begin or they might be feeling, oh, 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:24.040 it's going. 0:18:23.960 --> 0:18:24.680 To be too difficult. 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:27.200 I don't know how to support an additional needs person 0:18:27.359 --> 0:18:30.199 or someone on the spectrum or someone who's neurodivergent. What 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:33.359 have you learned about supporting people in that group? 0:18:33.720 --> 0:18:37.119 So firstly, there's heaps of organizations you can turn to 0:18:37.240 --> 0:18:39.160 for advice on that. So one of them is called 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:42.880 Employee for Ability. So you can just contact those organizations 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.080 and say, look, i'd like to have more diversity in 0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:47.200 my workforce. Can you give me some information. There's plenty 0:18:47.240 --> 0:18:49.760 of information just on their websites. And then I think 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:52.000 also the other thing is to just look at your 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.359 own employment practices and see have you got things in 0:18:56.440 --> 0:19:01.879 place maybe that unfairly weed people out where actually, with 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:06.080 the slightest adjustments, maybe you could have a more diverse workforce. 0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.240 So say, for example, one of the students on our 0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:12.240 show was really badly bullied in high school to the 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:14.959 degree that she's very scared of teenagers, and so it's 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.800 hard for her to commute in peak hour because you're 0:19:17.800 --> 0:19:19.440 going to see school kids on the way to school 0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:22.080 and that freaks her out. So with her internship, her 0:19:22.119 --> 0:19:25.320 hours are after so she doesn't have to get on 0:19:25.359 --> 0:19:27.320 the bus or whatever when she's likely to run into 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:30.359 school kids. So just little things like that where you 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:34.120 can maybe make some small adjustments that make it easier 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:35.400 for somebody to do your. 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:36.160