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Speaker 1: And joining me in the studio right now is the

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Speaker 1: opposition leader Leo FANOCHI are oh, good morning.

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Speaker 2: To you, Lead morning, Katie, and to your wonderful listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now plenty happening around the place, but I do want

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Speaker 1: to ask. Yesterday we heard the yes and No pamphlets

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Speaker 1: for the referendum on the voice. They're going to begin

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Speaker 1: landing in territory households this week now. Many people are

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Speaker 1: still uncertain on how they're going to vote. It has

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Speaker 1: obviously been a point of contention. I think you'd say

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Speaker 1: within the colp have you decided yet how you're going

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Speaker 1: to vote?

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Speaker 3: I have, Katie, and I guess the pamphlet coming out

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Speaker 3: today was the final opportunity, in my mind for Labor

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Speaker 3: to express to the community what this is about. We've

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Speaker 3: been calling for more information for territorians, gosh, since late

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Speaker 3: last year, I suppose, because we believe people should really

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Speaker 3: understand what they're voting for. And off the back of

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Speaker 3: the Labor Party national conference last week and the pamphlet today,

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Speaker 3: which really doesn't have any additional detail, I've made the

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Speaker 3: personal decision that I'll be voting no.

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Speaker 4: So you're going to vote no at the reference that's.

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Speaker 2: Correct, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I'm really disappointed that more information hasn't come to light.

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Speaker 3: I'm very concerned about the lack of territory representation that

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Speaker 3: there's likely to be on any voice, and to me,

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Speaker 3: that means we're not going to be getting the best

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Speaker 3: outcomes for territorians. I'm really concerned about a Canberra based

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Speaker 3: body that's going to be really predominantly filled with people

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Speaker 3: from other jurisdictions, and I just can't see how people

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Speaker 3: sitting in Melbourne and Sydney are going to be able

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Speaker 3: to drive better outcomes for Aboriginal territorians. And so it's

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Speaker 3: a real concern that more information hasn't come out. And

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Speaker 3: because of those reasons, I'll be voting no.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Leah, there are going to be some people listening,

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Speaker 1: agreeing with you and thinking, yep, I agree.

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Speaker 4: I feel exactly the same.

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Speaker 1: There's going to be others who are thinking to themselves,

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Speaker 1: we'll hang on a second, what further information do you need?

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Speaker 3: Well, I'm really concerned about what it's going to look

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Speaker 3: like and the representation of territorians and that's something I

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Speaker 3: fight for across a range of issues every single day,

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Speaker 3: and to me, and this is something.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: I've sat down with Senator Malanderry McCarthy and asked her

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Speaker 3: for detail. She hasn't been able to provide it. The

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Speaker 3: Prime Minister hasn't been able to provide it. The pamphlet

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Speaker 3: doesn't provide it, and I don't want to leave this

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Speaker 3: to chance. I don't think it's okay for Federal Labor

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Speaker 3: to have turned such an important issue into a political issue. Now,

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Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, I absolutely one hundred percent believe

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Speaker 3: in recognition in the Constitution, and I think those questions

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Speaker 3: should be split because the feedback I'm getting right around

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Speaker 3: the territory is it's a no brainer to have constitutional recognition.

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Speaker 3: It's just enshrining the voice in the constitution is the problem.

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Speaker 1: So if you believe in that recognition, shouldn't you vote yes.

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Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately the questions are tied.

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Speaker 3: And so whilst you're absolutely, with my whole heart believe

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Speaker 3: yes for one component, I feel very strongly about no

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Speaker 3: for the other. So unfortunately those questions are tied. I mean,

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Speaker 3: many people right around this country have begged the Prime

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Speaker 3: Minister to separate the questions, and I had a lovely

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Speaker 3: conversation with an Aboriginal woman last week at a mobile

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Speaker 3: office where we were talking about this very issue and

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Speaker 3: how it's so unfortunate that if and you know, I

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Speaker 3: don't know, Katie, but if the result is no, it

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Speaker 3: means we've missed that huge opportunity to have recognition.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Lea, are you just hedging your bits here?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely not, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I have been calling for more information for months and

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Speaker 3: months and months. The official pamphlet has now been printed,

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Speaker 3: it will hit mailboxes this week and it doesn't have

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Speaker 3: that detail.

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Speaker 1: How is the parliamentary wing going to vote?

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Speaker 4: Does this mean that they're voting the same way as you?

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Speaker 3: No, So we've always said that we're not going to

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Speaker 3: campaign either way, and my position on that remains the same,

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Speaker 3: and that every member of our parliamentary team gets their

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Speaker 3: own votes, so they are out talking to their communities

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Speaker 3: making up their own mind. And what's very clear to us, Katie,

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Speaker 3: is that this is not an issue that's of mine

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Speaker 3: and a priority for people we talk to. They really

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Speaker 3: want to see at a territory level stronger action, particularly

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Speaker 3: around local government reform.

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Speaker 1: Have you been forced to this, you know, to come

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Speaker 1: out and say that you're going to vote no because

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Speaker 1: you've literally sort of been dragged there.

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Speaker 4: By the party, by the CLP.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got you've got just Enterprise who's prominently

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Speaker 1: on the No campaign. We know that at the Catherine

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Speaker 1: Show there was apparently a dust up between Steve Edgington

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Speaker 1: and Josh Burgoyne on this very topic. You know, we

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Speaker 1: understand that the party have decided that they're voting no,

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Speaker 1: and you'd sort of been, you know, hesitant to say

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Speaker 1: what you're going to do.

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Speaker 4: So have you been dragged there kicking and screaming?

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Speaker 2: No, Katie.

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Speaker 3: I've been waiting for the information and very hopeful and

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Speaker 3: I've been very open minded about it. So the CLP

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Speaker 3: has had a No position since February and here we

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Speaker 3: are fast forward to August, and now that the official

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Speaker 3: information has been put forward, the Prime Minister has said,

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Speaker 3: that's it, that's all we're going to announce. It's very

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Speaker 3: clear to me that there's not the adequate level of information.

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Speaker 1: Is it a situation though, where you're actually having to

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Speaker 1: come out and say this and say that you're voting

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Speaker 1: no because the party is fighting with each.

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Speaker 2: Other over it?

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Speaker 3: No, Katie, this is something that people are asking. We're

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Speaker 3: getting to that point now where the vote is imminent.

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Speaker 3: I'd always said, you know, ask me when it gets

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Speaker 3: closer to it, and I'll let everyone know. And so

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Speaker 3: I'm just being open and transparent about my views. But again,

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Speaker 3: I'm not campaigning one way or the other, and I

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Speaker 3: encourage all Territorians to have a look at the fact

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Speaker 3: sheet form your own views about this. There are passionate

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Speaker 3: people on both sides and a ton of people in

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Speaker 3: the middle, and I respect all of that, Katie. It's

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Speaker 3: just personally, for me, I'm very concerned about inadequate representation

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Speaker 3: for Territorians and that lack of detail makes me very hesitant,

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Speaker 3: and I'm very disappointed that the questions aren't being split.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, there's plenty of messages coming through this MO

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Speaker 1: on this topic, and you know we've got one here

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Speaker 1: from Susie and Annula. She said, well done Leah in

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Speaker 1: taking a stand and speaking so calmly on the issue

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Speaker 1: of the voice. It's getting too hysterical and divisive, reckon

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Speaker 1: Susie in Annula. So there are other messages there and

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Speaker 1: we'll get to all of those throughout the morning, but

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've.

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Speaker 4: Heard it here first, obviously.

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Speaker 1: Lea Finocchiaro the opposition later well, outlining the fact that

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Speaker 1: you're now going to vote no at the referendum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right, and you know, time will tell what

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Speaker 3: happens there, and I respect the outcome of the country.

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Speaker 3: It is like I said, I've always said, I get

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Speaker 3: one vote, just like everybody else.

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Speaker 2: But it's there could have been a lot more information.

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Speaker 3: The territory could have been place in a much more

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Speaker 3: powerful position. And all I want at the end of

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Speaker 3: the day is for the best interests of every single

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Speaker 3: territory in and I can't see this delivering that.

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Speaker 1: Leah. There are gonna be you know, there are going

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Speaker 1: to be people that are on the yes camp. They

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Speaker 1: will say the decision that you're making is racist.

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Speaker 3: Well, I mean that's a matter for them, Katie, it's not.

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Speaker 3: What I'm saying is that there's not enough information the

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Speaker 3: federal government, and I've had Senator McCarthy say it to

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Speaker 3: our face. The Parliamentary team have gone and sat down

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Speaker 3: and had a briefing, and we have explicitly been told

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Speaker 3: by Labor that they will decide what the voice is,

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Speaker 3: what it looks like, how it's comprised, who gets to

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Speaker 3: sit on it. And I don't think that's acceptable for

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Speaker 3: a national referendum and change to the constitution.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not going.

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Speaker 3: To let Territorians be sidelined by people and other jurisdictions.

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Speaker 3: It's just I will fight every day for territory rights

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Speaker 3: and us to determine our own futures. And I don't

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Speaker 3: see having more bureaucracy, more people in other states telling

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Speaker 3: us what to do, is going to drive any better

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Speaker 3: outcome for any Territorian.

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Speaker 4: Well, I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 1: There are a lot of issues that Territorians are keen

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Speaker 1: to continue to talk about, so I do want to

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Speaker 1: ask you. I know that there have been calls for

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Speaker 1: a time frame as to when the Justice for Decklar

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Speaker 1: Lavity petition is going to be debated in Parliament now.

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Speaker 1: I asked the Chief Minister about this last week. She

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Speaker 1: had said that yes, it'll be happening next week. We

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Speaker 1: haven't been given a day or time at this stage.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any update?

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Speaker 3: I don't, and it's incredibly disappointing. I know Samara Lavity

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Speaker 3: Declan's mother has just had to book flights. She doesn't

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Speaker 3: know when the debate's going to be. Government haven't spoken

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Speaker 3: to her about it, which is hugely disappointing, given twenty

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Speaker 3: six thousand people have signed that petition, and let's not

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Speaker 3: forget her son has lost his life. You know, this

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Speaker 3: is a very serious issue. And for Natasha Files to

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Speaker 3: come out and say, oh, these are the.

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Speaker 2: Rules of the parliament. You know, we have to follow

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Speaker 2: the rules is a joke.

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Speaker 3: She has on seven occasions this term changed the rules

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Speaker 3: of the Parliament to suit her for whatever government are.

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Speaker 1: Trying to do.

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Speaker 3: So for what kind of yep, So five times to

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Speaker 3: bring legislation on urgently, they've disbanded all the rules of

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Speaker 3: parliament to urgently bring forward legislation. For two times they've

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Speaker 3: done it just to change the rules around remote participation

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Speaker 3: of members of Parliament.

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Speaker 2: So which is really rather insignificance.

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Speaker 1: So the legislation that they've brought on urgently, I mean,

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Speaker 1: has it been stuff that is actually important?

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Speaker 3: Oh I'm not saying the legislation isn't important. What I'm

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Speaker 3: saying is Natasha Files knows very well that she can

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Speaker 3: change the rules of Parliament at a whim. She can

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Speaker 3: do it in a blink of an eye, and she

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Speaker 3: has done that seven times in the blink of an eye.

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Speaker 3: We've also know that this government writes the rules of

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Speaker 3: the Parliament, and she has rewritten the rules of our

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Speaker 3: parliament three times this term to suit themselves and crush

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Speaker 3: scrutiny and transparency and crush how the opposition are able

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Speaker 3: to use the Parliament for free debates. So this is

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Speaker 3: a government that, at least on ten occasions this term

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Speaker 3: has done whatever it wants to the rules of Parliament.

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Speaker 3: And she can walk into Parliament Monday morning and make

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Speaker 3: sure that this petition is the first order of business

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Speaker 3: and that it is fully debated to the end, not

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Speaker 3: a six minis sixteen minute debate as she is currently

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Speaker 3: constraining it too.

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Speaker 1: I think that this should actually be debated in full tot.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to get no arguments from me there. I

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Speaker 1: mean the fact that twenty six thousand people have signed

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Speaker 1: this petition. I can't understand why the government's not listening

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Speaker 1: to those voices. I'm sure that they'd be saying to themselves, oh,

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Speaker 1: some of those people are from interstate, and all sorts

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Speaker 1: of garbage to make themselves feel as though it's not as.

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Speaker 4: Many people as what it is.

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Speaker 1: But the fact here is that it's twenty six thousand

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Speaker 1: people that have signed that petition and we've got a

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Speaker 1: grieving family who is asking for a date and time

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Speaker 1: to be able to make sure that they are there

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Speaker 1: when this debate happens. Now, I would urge the government

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Speaker 1: to be sensible on this. I would seriously urge them

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Speaker 1: to be sensible and allow that debate to happen. But Leah,

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Speaker 1: last Friday, on the week that was when Jared Mayley

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Speaker 1: had spoken about this, we did actually have somebody message

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Speaker 1: through and said, Katie, if the CLPS so passionate about this,

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Speaker 1: why didn't they or why aren't they going to move

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Speaker 1: for MPI for this to be able to happen.

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Speaker 3: Well we can go one further, Katie, and that's an

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Speaker 3: excellent suggestion obviously by your listener. And the reason we

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Speaker 3: hadn't done that is because Kezia had flags she would

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Speaker 3: which we obviously would support. But we are very concerned

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Speaker 3: that government are continuing to restrict this to a sixty

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Speaker 3: minute debate at a time no one knows, which means

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Speaker 3: no one can be there. So first thing on Tuesday morning,

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Speaker 3: at ten am next Tuesday, I will stand up and

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Speaker 3: suspend the rules of the Parliament, or try to suspend

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Speaker 3: the rules of the Parliament so that we can bring

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Speaker 3: on the debate for the petition and that that debate

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Speaker 3: be unlimited. And that is what I will do at

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Speaker 3: ten o'clock on Tuesday morning. It requires the support of

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Speaker 3: government and we are seeking their support to make sure

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Speaker 3: that Territorians can be in the gallery. Samara Lavity can

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Speaker 3: be in the gallery and people can transparently and openly

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Speaker 3: hear a debate on a critical issue to all of us.

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Speaker 1: Lea, are you setting that family up for disappointment if

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Speaker 1: that doesn't happen on Tuesday morning at ten if the

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Speaker 1: government doesn't agree to this, because they've not agreed to

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Speaker 1: anything like this in the past. So are you setting

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Speaker 1: the Lavity family up for absolute disappointment? Here?

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Speaker 3: Well, that question sits in the lap of Labor and

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Speaker 3: Natasha Philes because all they have to do is support

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Speaker 3: it and we can have the debate.

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Speaker 2: This is critical. It should be the first sort of business.

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Speaker 3: And let's not forget Natasha Philes hasn't learned her lesson

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Speaker 3: after Declan died. The first thing they did on that

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Speaker 3: Tuesday morning in Parliament was move a motion into vaping.

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Speaker 3: I mean, what kind of priorities does this government have.

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Speaker 3: We can go into Parliament Tuesday morning and immediately debate

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Speaker 3: this petition, which means people can be in the galleries,

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Speaker 3: Samara can be there, anyone can be tuning in and

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Speaker 3: listening from their work computers or at home, and we

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Speaker 3: can have a fully fledged, proper debate about an issue

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Speaker 3: that is on the mind and in the hearts of

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Speaker 3: every territory. And because we all want to be safe

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Speaker 3: and we're not under labor.

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Speaker 1: So at ten am on Tuesday, you're going to move

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Speaker 1: that motion to suspend the rules of the Parliament correct

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Speaker 1: to allow that debate to happen. Yes, what if they

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Speaker 1: don't agree to it.

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Speaker 3: If they don't agree to it, then the petition takes

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Speaker 3: its normal course, which will mean no one other than

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Speaker 3: Natasha Files will know when the petition comes on.

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Speaker 4: All right, we're going to stay on to this.

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Speaker 1: I do want to ask you just about a couple

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Speaker 1: of things very quickly before we get before you've got

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Speaker 1: to go. But yesterday we spoke quite a bit about

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Speaker 1: the National Children's Commissioner telling the ABC that she's written

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Speaker 1: to the Northern Territories Police Minister calling for that video

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Speaker 1: that the Northern Territory Police had posted last week of

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Speaker 1: them chasing and arresting two teenagers to be taken down.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that that video needs to be taken down?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that it's been framed in a way

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Speaker 1: that's potentially dangerous?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely not, And I think surely the National Children's Commissioner

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Speaker 3: has better things to do than worry about what territory

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Speaker 3: police are out there doing their job. I mean, anyone

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Speaker 3: who watches that video will very clearly see that we

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Speaker 3: have an exceptional police force. And I'm not really sure

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Speaker 3: what some people think police do, Katie, but they're out

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Speaker 3: there to catch the bad guys, the crims, and police

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Speaker 3: can't just stand there and say, oh, excuse me, sir,

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Speaker 3: can you come over here, I'm going to arrest you.

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Speaker 3: That is the harsh reality of policing and crime, and

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Speaker 3: I think the more people that see what our police

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Speaker 3: do the better.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 1: You attended the Northern to Treat Police Association annual conference

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Speaker 1: on Friday last week. The president, Nathan Finn says that

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Speaker 1: police are stretched beyond breaking point. He reckons we need

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Speaker 1: an extra two hundred police. Do you agree? And how

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Speaker 1: would the COLP actually.

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Speaker 4: Make that happen?

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Speaker 3: We understand exactly the pain that our police are going through.

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Speaker 3: I spoke at that conference as well, Katie, and that's

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Speaker 3: why we are committed to making our police safe. In

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Speaker 3: order to deal with the extremely high attrition rates. They

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Speaker 3: need to feel supported and safe. That's why our policy

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Speaker 3: is to have minimum mandatory sentencing for assaults on police.

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Speaker 3: It's why our policy is to strength and bail, to

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Speaker 3: strengthen police powers so they can deal better with alcohol.

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Speaker 3: It's why our policy is to fix the broken destructive

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Speaker 3: disciplinary system our police suffer. It's why our policy is

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Speaker 3: to bring back spitthood so that cops don't have to

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Speaker 3: be spat on by people who have no respect and

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Speaker 3: no regard for the law, along with the range of

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Speaker 3: other things, Katie. So we hear their concerns, we will

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Speaker 3: back the blue, give them the power they need, make

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Speaker 3: our community safe, drive down the number of crime, and

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Speaker 3: grow our police force so that they can be supported

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Speaker 3: and the community can be saved.

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Speaker 1: Well. Look, one of the things that they are calling

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Speaker 1: for is new legislation which makes actions such as posting

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Speaker 1: videos of offending on social media and aggravation. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that this would have an impact with some of

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Speaker 1: the offenses which we are seeing being committed.

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Speaker 3: We absolutely do, and we are actually working through legislation

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Speaker 3: right now looking at that and how we can better

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Speaker 3: support our police. Have additional consequences for people who post

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Speaker 3: their crimes. It is to totally unacceptable to break the

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Speaker 3: law and then to flaunt it and to think that

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Speaker 3: it's okay to spread that right around social media like

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Speaker 3: criminals as some sort of hero. That is not what

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Speaker 3: we want to see and people should be held accountable

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Speaker 3: and responsible for that.

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Speaker 1: Leah Finocchio, we are going to have to leave it there,

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Speaker 1: no doubt. We'll talk to you again very soon. Appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time this morning.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, and just on the petition, put pressure on

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Speaker 3: your labor local member and let's get this done at

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Speaker 3: ten am Tuesday.

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Speaker 4: Leah, thanks so much for your tom this morning. Appreciate it.

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Speaker 1: It is just on nine point thirty eight nine four

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Speaker 1: one one oh four nine. If you'd like to call through,

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Speaker 1: If you want to send a message, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot of them coming through, feel free to send

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Speaker 1: us a text zero four double nine seven double one

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Speaker 1: three six zero.

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Speaker 4: Starting your day the right way.

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Speaker 3: It's mixed Brecky with Dan and Sam b Fall Great

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Speaker 3: Aszie TV Show