WEBVTT - Conversations 5: Family Matters 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.480 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.960 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline. I'm 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:19.079 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen, or visit them at 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:22.279 lifeline dot org dot au. 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:32.639 Hello, Welcome to Conversations five. I'm Alison Sandy and I'm 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:36.919 joined by my fellow Brave and courageous colleagues Liam Bartlett 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:37.920 and Tim Clark. 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.560 Hi El Hi Tim, Morning, Liam. How are we well? 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:44.360 I'm much better now that I've been described as brave courageous. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.479 It's true, you know, because there's no punches pulled in 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:53.000 this podcast. We will shortly be joined by a very 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.040 special guest. But first I wanted to turn your attention 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.080 to this as you are all aware, there's been a 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.400 big push for me his family to have her case 0:01:01.400 --> 0:01:04.360 far referred to the Office of the Director of Public Prosecutions. 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:07.520 If you haven't signed and shared the petition, please do so. 0:01:08.319 --> 0:01:11.520 Amy's aunt has written to the Director of Public Prosecutions, 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:17.119 Robert Owen recently and received this reply, dated the first 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.080 of October twenty twenty four. Dear Miss Davey, thank you 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.840 for your letter dated nineteenth September twenty twenty four. I 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.919 acknowledge how difficult raising these matters again with my office 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.080 is likely to be for you and your family. I 0:01:30.160 --> 0:01:33.080 understand you are seeking justice for Amy and that this 0:01:33.200 --> 0:01:37.200 reflects the love and sense of dignity her memory deserves. However, 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.600 I am unable to provide a materially different response from 0:01:41.600 --> 0:01:44.720 the one you received from the ODPP on the first 0:01:44.760 --> 0:01:48.760 of November twenty nineteen, where the former director advised you 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.560 that the ODPP is not an investigatory agency and we 0:01:53.680 --> 0:01:57.920 do not have the power to independently investigate allegations or complaints. Now, 0:01:58.240 --> 0:02:02.680 just to clarify here, that is not what Anna was 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:06.440 asking for. Anna was just asking whether he could ask 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:10.280 for Amy's file to refer to him, and was also 0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:12.760 asking for a meeting with him. Anyway, he goes on 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:16.960 to say the odopp's sole function is to prosecute indubtable 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:20.440 criminal offenses once charges have been laid by investigative agencies 0:02:20.480 --> 0:02:23.840 such as WA police. That function includes the assessment of 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:27.240 the evidence gathered. If there is insufficient evidence, the ODPP 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.200 isn't able to proceed. Now again, my understanding is that 0:02:31.240 --> 0:02:34.880 the ODPP is the one that decides that Anyway, the 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.000 ODPP has no power to investigate the conduct of other 0:02:38.080 --> 0:02:41.919 agencies or to assess whether an investigation by WA Police 0:02:42.120 --> 0:02:46.760 was insufficient. Again, that's not what Anna was asking. She's 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:50.080 just asking, given that five years have now passed since 0:02:50.120 --> 0:02:52.120 they last saw it, they might want to take another 0:02:52.160 --> 0:02:55.360 look at it with all the updated information. Anyway. In 0:02:55.360 --> 0:02:58.000 our letter to you dated first of November twenty nineteen, 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:00.680 we indicated that an inquest into your niece death maybe 0:03:00.720 --> 0:03:03.280 an appropriate forum to ventilate the matter as you of race. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.639 An inquest into the death of your niece has now 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.200 been completed and the findings were delivered by the Deputy 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:11.600 State Coroner on ninth September twenty twenty one. The inquest 0:03:11.960 --> 0:03:14.760 followed a cold case review by WA Police. Blah blah, 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:18.240 blah blah goes into the whole history that we already know. 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.520 The Deputy State Coroner did make some adverse comments about 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:24.440 the standard of the initial police investigation and the limitations 0:03:24.480 --> 0:03:27.800 is placed on the current's ability to consider all relevant evidence. 0:03:28.040 --> 0:03:30.320 I have outlined this information only to ensure that you 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.840 are informed about events to date. I understand you are 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.600 likely to be very familiar with what has occurred, and 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:39.000 I mean no disrespect in doing so. At this time, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:43.000 the ODPP cannot undertake further steps so offer any other 0:03:43.200 --> 0:03:47.040 resolution of Amy's case. Your sincerely, Robert OMSC, Director of 0:03:47.040 --> 0:03:50.440 Public Prosecutions. So what do you guys think of that? 0:03:52.920 --> 0:03:58.720 Not surprising, but still disappointing, Like it's a rehash of 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:01.720 arguments that we've just we've heard, and we've heard and 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:02.640 then we've heard from. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:05.320 Different authorities and it's just. 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:14.640 Yeah, just wholly disappointing and another example of buck passing 0:04:14.960 --> 0:04:15.600 really live. 0:04:15.800 --> 0:04:19.720 Yeah, that's incredible, now, am I right? Just recapping on that. 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:24.280 So twice in that letter, the current Director of Public 0:04:24.279 --> 0:04:31.000 Prosecutions references the previous correspondence with Amy Wensley's family, which 0:04:31.080 --> 0:04:36.560 is dated the first in November twenty nineteen, twice twice 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.679 and so once in context. The first time he mentioned 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:43.479 that date five years ago. He mentions that date because 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.040 he says nothing's changed since the previous person was sitting 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:49.599 in my seat. That's what he's saying, isn't he quite clearly? 0:04:49.880 --> 0:04:52.280 So they didn't do it, So I can't do it, 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:54.960 That's what Robert Owen is saying. So for him to 0:04:55.520 --> 0:05:02.039 can't Blanche say, sorry, nothing's changed, see you later. It 0:05:02.160 --> 0:05:08.560 really is practically and technically pathetic. So can I can 0:05:08.600 --> 0:05:12.679 I I've got I've got Anna's reply to that letter 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.000 that Robert Owen sent her. 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:17.040 Do you mind if I just read this out? How 0:05:17.080 --> 0:05:19.480 we need to get the bleep machine ready? 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.200 Look, I saw Anna's first version, so this one I've 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:26.360 refined a little bit, helped to refine a bit. 0:05:26.400 --> 0:05:28.120 Anyway, keep going, yeah, no, no, no, I think this 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:31.880 has been through the censorship. It's been through the filter, 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:34.480 the special filter we have here. But this is this 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:36.560 is pretty good. So I'm just going I'll just I'll 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.400 read for the sake of our listeners. Dear mister Owen. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:43.520 So this is Anna's reply to that pathetic response from 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:46.800 the director. She says, thank you for replying to my 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:50.880 recent letter and for confirming your office hasn't seen Amy's 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:55.279 case for at least five years. In twenty nineteen, Amy's 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.839 case was still being treated as a suicide by w 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:02.240 WA police. Great point to my she goes on. Now, 0:06:02.279 --> 0:06:05.040 in twenty twenty four, Amy's case is being referred to 0:06:05.120 --> 0:06:08.480 as a homicide, and there is a considerable amount of 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:13.080 new evidence now available. As per my previous letter. Would 0:06:13.080 --> 0:06:16.479 you be willing to meet with me to discuss not 0:06:16.560 --> 0:06:20.360 an unreasonable request, I would think, she goes on. Or 0:06:20.560 --> 0:06:22.960 is it a case that you won't seek any information 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.839 from WA Police unless they raise it with you. Please 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:29.960 forgive my ignorance, says Anna, But given my family seems 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:32.560 to be at the mercy of WA Police, I just 0:06:32.600 --> 0:06:35.080 wanted to find out from you what it would take 0:06:35.200 --> 0:06:39.200 for your office to reconsider Amy's case. If, as a 0:06:39.240 --> 0:06:43.279 family we don't believe Amy's case is being handled properly, 0:06:43.839 --> 0:06:47.080 what avenues do we have Do we go back to 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:50.400 the way Corruption and Crime Commission. I'm sure you can 0:06:50.480 --> 0:06:54.680 understand our frustration, particularly given recent information that's come to 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.960 light on Amy's case via Channel seven's podcast The Truth 0:06:59.200 --> 0:07:03.400 about Amy. I am devastatingly disappointed that I've had to 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.080 fight the system for more than ten years now because 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:11.080 of a terrible mistake made by WA Police. I don't 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:15.080 think it's asking too much, says Anna to seek help 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:18.280 from people like you who are in a position to 0:07:18.360 --> 0:07:22.040 provide some but for whatever reason, don't seem to want 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:27.440 to offer any assistance at all. Regards Anna, Davy pretty 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:28.160 much sums it up. 0:07:28.240 --> 0:07:35.880 Yeah, typically strong, typically forthright, typically intelligent, and typically not unreasonable. 0:07:36.400 --> 0:07:41.480 Not an unreasonable request when you've got an unsolved, suspicious 0:07:41.640 --> 0:07:49.000 death of a young mother, you'd think police, DPP, Attorney 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:55.280 General would have the gumption to say, okay. First of 0:07:55.320 --> 0:07:59.200 November twenty nineteen, I got some advice. The coroner had 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.760 the information that she did during the inquest. But it's 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:06.320 twenty twenty four and things have changed, Things have moved on, 0:08:06.600 --> 0:08:10.960 We have more information, and we also, to be blunt, 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:16.560 we have a public push to relook at this case. 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:20.360 And we know there is a further investigation confirmed by police. 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:26.040 There's a quote new team doing that further investigation unquote 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:27.960 right now as we speak. 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.200 So we don't know whether it was Robowen that asked 0:08:30.760 --> 0:08:33.560 the police to do that. We don't think so. I 0:08:33.720 --> 0:08:35.800 think he probably might have mentioned that in his letter. 0:08:36.400 --> 0:08:41.960 So the police have gone away listens been given information 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:44.959 via crime stoppers or wherever, and thought right, we need 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.960 a body of workers to work up a body of 0:08:48.000 --> 0:08:51.160 work on this new information totally, and it seems to 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:55.240 me we go to the AG. He says, sorry, cannot 0:08:55.320 --> 0:08:59.839 do as Allison has done numerous times. Anna has gone 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:03.760 to the DPP please, this is what we can do. No, no, 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:08.160 can do, Because in twenty nineteen there was all this information, 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:10.480 and in twenty twenty one the coroner came up with 0:09:10.160 --> 0:09:13.040 this conclusion that there's not enough. 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:14.920 There's not enough. Three years on, we. 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:19.760 Are now and we go to WA Police, respectfully but firmly, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:25.000 asking for an interview with Cole Blanche or whomever they 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:29.120 wish to place before us to answer some questions that 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:32.320 we want to ask, and we are politely declined. So 0:09:33.360 --> 0:09:35.800 you can probably say it's in my voice measure of 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.920 the frustration. Imagine, imagine how the Wensley family have felt 0:09:40.240 --> 0:09:42.360 having to do this for ten years. 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.600 Well yeah, and you know, it just comes back to 0:09:45.640 --> 0:09:48.440 that whole thing of just Anna needing a champion, just 0:09:48.480 --> 0:09:51.440 someone who's willing to do their job. We're not even 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:53.880 asking anyone to go out there on a limb, right, 0:09:54.120 --> 0:09:58.920 This is just part of their duties as a person 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:05.240 who works for the public service. Public service being being 0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:10.240 the operative words here. So it's it just seems like 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:15.720 people just so happy to slam the door in the 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:20.679 faces of Amy's family, who, as we have already established, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:22.559 have a very good I mean all they want to 0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.720 do is go through the process, right, They're not asking 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:28.400 for special favors or anything like that, just going through 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:35.560 the democratic judicial legal process to see if justice can 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:41.600 be reached for Amy Wensley, for their beloved niece, slush daughter, 0:10:41.679 --> 0:10:44.800 slush mother. You know, it's it's really sad. 0:10:45.600 --> 0:10:47.599 Yeah, that's that's an interesting point. I mean, we're not 0:10:47.760 --> 0:10:51.080 we're not even asking anyone to be entirely creative with this. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:54.200 Certainly not go out on a limb. We're just talking 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:56.440 about things that you can do within the rules, like, 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.600 within the processes that are already in place and the 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:03.560 guidelines that have already been long established. It's not a 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:07.040 big deal. And you know, I mean, we can use 0:11:07.280 --> 0:11:09.680 as many cliches as we like, but it is a 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.240 fact that, you know, this is supposed to be justice 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:14.920 for everybody because it's public. You know, the courts of 0:11:14.960 --> 0:11:17.720 public the police are publicly funded, the DPP's office is 0:11:17.760 --> 0:11:20.400 publicly funded. You know, sometimes these people, I think need 0:11:20.440 --> 0:11:23.760 to be reminded they're actually being paid by the taxpayer. Again, 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:27.920 you know, the cliche about the duty and obligation and service. 0:11:29.160 --> 0:11:31.640 Maybe we need to remind them time and time again 0:11:31.679 --> 0:11:36.240 that guys, you're there to help people. You know, we're 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:37.800 there to get a result for the public. 0:11:38.040 --> 0:11:43.160 And what irks me is they point to process as 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:44.960 well when you ask them about it, Well, well we 0:11:45.000 --> 0:11:47.320 did this, we did this, we did this. But we 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.880 know all that flowed from a process was it was 0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:55.560 completely botched right at the start. Right the process was 0:11:55.600 --> 0:12:01.000 there for the detectives to call in the homicide squad 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:06.120 and to seal off that forensic area so there would 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.239 be no doubts and there will be no lingering unknowns 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:14.640 and frustrations. That's what started all that. They stuffed the 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.880 process up right at the start, and everything that's flowed 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.280 from that has been trying to play catch up. And 0:12:20.400 --> 0:12:24.320 you now can't say, in my humble opinion, you know, 0:12:24.360 --> 0:12:29.240 you shouldn't hide behind an inquest that we've explored and 0:12:30.200 --> 0:12:34.199 picked apart and other people other than us believe was 0:12:34.720 --> 0:12:38.319 flawed as well. And you can't. You can't say there 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:40.880 was an investigation in twenty nineteen. Five years is a 0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:44.480 long time. There's there's a whole there's a whole other 0:12:44.520 --> 0:12:49.600 file to to pick through, and that's what they should 0:12:49.600 --> 0:12:49.920 be doing. 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:54.800 Heah, And as Anna so pointedly reminds us, you know, 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.439 those two references by the Director of Public Prosecutions to 0:13:00.080 --> 0:13:03.280 twenty nineteen. That's when police were very much entrenched with 0:13:03.320 --> 0:13:06.200 this whole suicide theory. They wouldn't hear anything else to him, 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:07.959 as you know, well they put it forward out the 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.000 inquest exactly very strongly. 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.720 Yeah. I mean so, so, how. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:16.280 Can the DPP be relying upon a time when the 0:13:16.280 --> 0:13:18.959 police had totally the opposite view and now the. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:24.320 Police have publicly listed it and offered a reward for 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:25.480 an unsolved homicide. 0:13:25.559 --> 0:13:26.199 Doesn't make sense? 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.360 Does which FI has showness and has also shown us 0:13:29.400 --> 0:13:32.440 that some people in there were upset that that was 0:13:32.480 --> 0:13:36.880 the case. But well why you asked the question why 0:13:36.880 --> 0:13:40.360 were they upset? Well, you know because because you called 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.679 it as it was a first up and no it's not. 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:43.839 Yeah. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:46.880 Can I just mention here, speaking of the inquest, the 0:13:46.920 --> 0:13:50.840 person who was seen to be representing the Commissioner at 0:13:50.840 --> 0:13:54.200 the inquest, as far as I can tell, was the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:59.920 Major Crime Division Detective Superintendent Robert Scantlebury. Rob Scantlebury anyway, 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:06.240 now direct quote from the inquest here. I reviewed both investigations, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.800 the Coronial Brief, the coronial report, and quote there is 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.440 no criminality identified in relation to this matter. He then says, 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:18.560 I cannot put any other person in that room, and 0:14:18.600 --> 0:14:22.520 so therefore I cannot establish any criminality in relation to this. 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.720 He then goes on to highlight the limitations of the 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:29.720 testing done, which by their biomechanical experts to justify his 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:35.160 position that was the closed minded, inflexible attitude existing in 0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:38.840 Wa police at the time, and we're yet to see 0:14:39.120 --> 0:14:42.240 evidence that that's not the case now. And of course, 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:48.760 given quickly and Owen's replies to the family, it's really 0:14:48.840 --> 0:14:52.720 hard to have much faith that there seems to be 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.840 a willingness to have a resolution in Aimy's case. 0:14:57.640 --> 0:14:59.560 I can't understand why he can say that, or how 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:01.640 he can say that I cannot put any other person 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:02.520 in that room. 0:15:02.840 --> 0:15:05.080 Presumably he's talking about the bedroom Amy's bedroom. 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:05.360 Yeah. 0:15:05.520 --> 0:15:08.040 I can come up with two or three scenarios just 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:09.520 off the top of my head where I can easily 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:11.720 put somebody else in that room, but it requires further 0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.040 investigation to get the evidence of that person being in 0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:18.200 that room. I mean, but that's the police job. That's 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:20.400 not I'm not looking for a conclusion on a fairy 0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:24.120 tale from Rob Scantlebury. I mean, I want them to 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:34.560 do their job. You know the thing that really annoys 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:36.920 me about this whole thing. And I get annoyed, you know, 0:15:36.920 --> 0:15:40.640 on behalf of the family and just personally because I think, gee, 0:15:40.880 --> 0:15:42.480 you know, you wouldn't want to get into a serious 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:45.800 bit of strife in this state at the moment, would you. 0:15:46.120 --> 0:15:49.560 But it's the level of openness that's all we're asking for. Like, 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:53.680 it's not it's you know, I can't. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:58.120 Believe that this goes back to requests for interview and 0:15:58.240 --> 0:16:02.800 requests for information. Alison tim As, you know that whole 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:08.320 closed door approach, the entire closed door approach. It's ironic 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.400 because the police have a door very similar to Amy's 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:13.040 bedroom where it doesn't seem to be a handle on 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:16.280 the inside. No one opens it. But I don't understand 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.440 why you just can't talk about this because I have 0:16:19.520 --> 0:16:22.200 the naive presumption that we're all on the same side. 0:16:22.440 --> 0:16:24.520 In other words, now that we have a million dollar 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:27.479 reward for a homicide, we say, okay, it's a homicide. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:31.400 So in terms of public safety for everyone else who's 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:35.520 still alive, isn't there a concern? But what about just 0:16:35.720 --> 0:16:39.360 the rest of it being an open book for the 0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:45.560 police them being able to talk about the possibilities like, 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:50.320 for instance, getting fresh eyes on the case outside wa Now, Tim, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:52.560 you know there's a number of cases here where they've 0:16:52.600 --> 0:16:55.560 done this in the past with cold case reviews. They've 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:59.600 brought somebody in from the East, or even somebody from 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.320 America or whatever, you know, from Britain. There was the 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:05.960 fellow who came over you know, I mean, who is 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.920 looking at this? Given the Rob Scandalbury quote that you've 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:14.439 just given us, Allison, you know, what's the makeup of 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:16.080 this new team investigating it? 0:17:16.160 --> 0:17:16.800 For example? 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:20.400 Is it the same old coppers who had that view 0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:25.359 that the DPP quoted in November of twenty nineteen. Is 0:17:25.359 --> 0:17:27.479 it somebody else? Have they got fresh eyes? Do they 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:31.159 have a biased view towards that? Are they thinking more 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:34.200 about protecting the thin blue line than they are about 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:36.640 looking at fresh evidence or collecting fresh evidence? I mean, 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:39.119 you know, can we have fresh eyes on this? Is 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:39.879 it a good idea? 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:41.280 To me? 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.720 It would be essential, right because you know, there has 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:50.600 to be there just has to be you know, pressures issues. 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:56.040 If you're an existing homicide detective, you would hope there'd 0:17:56.080 --> 0:17:58.680 be homicide detectives would be tasked with. 0:17:58.720 --> 0:17:59.480 Doing this work. 0:18:00.720 --> 0:18:03.119 You'd know someone, right, You'd know you'd have to have 0:18:03.160 --> 0:18:05.640 known someone or work someone with that down the track, 0:18:05.680 --> 0:18:10.000 who had who had involvement in this case. The other 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:13.000 issue at the moment in Western Australia is there's there's 0:18:13.040 --> 0:18:15.879 not there's not that many homicide detectives to go around. Lin, 0:18:17.280 --> 0:18:20.400 my colleague got the West Australian Phil Hickey, who has 0:18:20.400 --> 0:18:23.760 some of the best police contacts in this state, has 0:18:23.800 --> 0:18:28.400 been talking to homicide detectives and they are absolutely chock 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:32.399 a blot with work, slammed, absolutely slammed, as I'm sure 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:37.280 many many other police forces across Australia are. Because for 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.920 whatever reason, this has been a particularly violent gear. 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:41.760 In Western Australia. 0:18:41.760 --> 0:18:45.440 There's been some horrible crimes, domestic violence desks that we've 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.720 all heard about and regional homicides. 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:49.920 They all take. 0:18:49.760 --> 0:18:53.040 Work, right, You've all got obviously, you've got you've got 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:57.480 a victim, You've got a family also grieving, also wanting justice, 0:18:57.560 --> 0:19:03.160 also wanting information, also wanting every lead chase down. So 0:19:04.240 --> 0:19:07.280 I hate to say it, but how far up or 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:08.560 down the priority list? 0:19:09.000 --> 0:19:12.840 Yeah, hay on for me, Well, more the case, more 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.280 the case go to the Attorney General's office, see if 0:19:15.280 --> 0:19:18.399 you can wake up John Quigley or somebody close to 0:19:18.480 --> 0:19:20.800 him to get them to wake him up and say, hey, listen, 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:24.680 how about an ex graser addition to our budget. Because 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:28.320 we're struggling with serious crime. What about giving us a 0:19:28.480 --> 0:19:30.480 I don't know, one off payment. Give us a boost 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:32.920 of a couple of million dollars. You have money coming 0:19:32.920 --> 0:19:35.679 out of your ears from the royalties. You're always banging 0:19:35.720 --> 0:19:38.480 on about it, Roger Cooks telling them what the whole state, 0:19:38.520 --> 0:19:40.760 what a great job they're doing economically. How about just 0:19:40.760 --> 0:19:42.719 a few million of that will use a little bit 0:19:42.760 --> 0:19:46.399 of it to get maybe a deputation from somebody in 0:19:46.400 --> 0:19:48.840 the Eastern States or maybe recently retired, somebody with a 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:51.560 great reputation, maybe even someone like a Ron Idle's that 0:19:51.600 --> 0:19:54.840 we had on the program. I mean, you know, fantastic reputation. 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.120 Bring them over for four weeks, get them to work 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.280 on the case, put a set of fresh eyes on it. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.320 Make a consultancy payment. What's the big deal. Yeah, I'll 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:05.479 take your point, But it's not an excuse to Oh no, no, no, no, 0:20:05.520 --> 0:20:06.679 I wasn't trying to make it excense. 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:08.800 It's the will. 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.600 It's the will, exactly, it's the will, and it's the 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:16.760 willingness to think slightly outside the process and slightly outside 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.480 the box and say, well, look, we've promised this, we've 0:20:19.520 --> 0:20:21.160 said it publicly, we're going to do it. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:23.239 Why don't we do it properly? Well exactly, I mean, 0:20:23.240 --> 0:20:25.639 we've got consultants for everything else. Maybe if they work 0:20:25.720 --> 0:20:28.480 for metro Net, we'd get it done. That's how far 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:30.959 over budget is that? What billion or ten billion is it? 0:20:31.000 --> 0:20:31.680 At the last count. 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:33.520 There's a lot of noughts at the end of our building. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:36.240 Anyway, this is about people, not about machine And. 0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:39.320 I'd face it, the reason we are in this predicament 0:20:39.400 --> 0:20:42.840 is because of the unwillingness to investigate properly in the 0:20:42.840 --> 0:20:45.760 first place. We point them in the right direction. It's 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:49.840 not it shouldn't be as onerous as as it would 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.879 have been. They've just done the forensics. But look that said, 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:58.320 you know, this is more than just a case that 0:20:58.480 --> 0:21:01.639 wasn't handled properly at the beginning. They owe it to 0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:05.560 Amy's family to see it through. This is a suspicious 0:21:05.600 --> 0:21:10.520 death that has a lot of repercussions if it's not solved, 0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:15.040 potentially so there's no excuse. They just have to do it. 0:21:15.080 --> 0:21:18.040 They can't just say, oh, they were competing priorities. Well, 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:22.760 every life matters. Anyway. I've put some questions to the 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:28.120 WA Police, new questions to Waypole Commissioner Cole Blanche, and 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:30.520 we haven't obviously got replies back yet, but we will 0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:34.240 and we'll inform you of those hopefully next week. Internal 0:21:34.280 --> 0:21:37.520 emails we obtained under freedom of information law shows later 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:40.320 as last year, seen your high ranking police officers still 0:21:40.359 --> 0:21:43.840 adamant there's no possibility Amy's death was anything but suicide. 0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:47.439 How can Amy's family be confident that WA Police is 0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:51.639 interested in solving Amy's case giving this closed minded attitude 0:21:51.680 --> 0:21:56.240 within WA Police ranks. Two, given how much new evidence 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:59.240 that's now available compared to the last time the ODBP 0:22:00.119 --> 0:22:03.520 reviewed Amy's file at least five years ago, why hasn't 0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:06.880 it been referred to them already? And three? What more 0:22:06.960 --> 0:22:10.360 does WA Police require for Amy's case to be referred 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.760 to the ODPP. So anyway, we'll see what we get 0:22:13.800 --> 0:22:17.399 back from that. But it's it's just really important. I 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:21.880 think that it's just I just like you know, when 0:22:21.880 --> 0:22:24.879 you look at what happens with other deaths you know, 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:28.359 like Alison Baiden Clay in Queensland for example, her death, 0:22:28.480 --> 0:22:32.280 you know, and the Lynn Dawson case, you know that 0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:37.000 came back so many years later. Who chooses which is 0:22:37.040 --> 0:22:38.119 important or which isn't. 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:41.159 Now that's a very very very good question. 0:22:41.880 --> 0:22:44.280 I think it probably depends on how embarrassing it might 0:22:44.320 --> 0:22:49.480 be if you did put the resources in, because it 0:22:49.560 --> 0:22:50.560 might be a different outcome. 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:54.160 Yeah. Well, I mean I would have thought a potential 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:57.040 risk to society as well would have to be a 0:22:57.040 --> 0:23:01.240 factor that they could consider if if you know, this 0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:06.600 is something that could result in further violence against women 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.879 or yeah, I mean all those sorts of factors should 0:23:10.880 --> 0:23:14.080 be taken into account. Right, is that the job criteria? 0:23:14.160 --> 0:23:16.560 It is the criteria. You're right, You're dead right, it's 0:23:16.640 --> 0:23:19.800 I mean it's basic policing one oh one, isn't it. 0:23:19.840 --> 0:23:22.919 I mean, that's that's your that's your what do they 0:23:22.920 --> 0:23:23.159 call it? 0:23:23.160 --> 0:23:24.320 Mission statement? Tim? 0:23:24.400 --> 0:23:27.679 Yeah, you know that's on the canteen at police headquarters. 0:23:27.680 --> 0:23:30.560