Speaker 1: Hey you today, Pete Hell are you here? Welcome to
Speaker 1: you ain't seen nothing yet? The Movie Podcast where I
Speaker 1: chat to a movie lover. Have I a classic or
Speaker 1: beloved movie they haven't quite got around to watching until now?
Speaker 1: And today's guests Simon Hall aka Yawn.
Speaker 2: All below.
Speaker 3: I want to stay here with you.
Speaker 1: Got little jobble my hat, snake shucked my hail.
Speaker 4: They couldn't haven't a right, So you ain't seen nothing new.
Speaker 1: Very excited today they have my great mate Yonnie returning
Speaker 1: to the Yasney studio. He visited about a year or
Speaker 1: so ago to do in the Heat of the night
Speaker 1: with the great Sir Sidney Poitier. Yanni I've known for
Speaker 1: nearly thirty years and I love to chat to him
Speaker 1: about pop culture, whether it's music or movies. He's always curious, engage, knowledgeable,
Speaker 1: really fun bloke to hang out with. Fun and funny.
Speaker 1: He's a one third of the Tripod with his great
Speaker 1: mates Gatsy and Scott. But he's also got a podcast
Speaker 1: called Minuscule Musical. Check that out. Very funny. He's bloody
Speaker 1: how he's talented, bloody talented fella really is. Last time
Speaker 1: he was on the show, he nominated Michael Clayton as
Speaker 1: his favorite film in the line of the Fire, Clint Eastwood,
Speaker 1: and eighth Grade Bo Burnham's Think debut feature. So I'm
Speaker 1: very curious to know what his next three favorite films are,
Speaker 1: and then we'll get on to talk about the film
Speaker 1: we are here to talk about today, which is a
Speaker 1: bit of a different kind of vibe because of the
Speaker 1: way we came to it. As far as usually it's
Speaker 1: just like what film you want to wants for the
Speaker 1: first time ever? Yeah, okay, let's lot that in. This
Speaker 1: was a little bit different.
Speaker 4: My name's jan and my next three favorite films broadcast news.
Speaker 1: You know I'm not.
Speaker 5: Because I think we have a kind of friendship where
Speaker 5: if I were the devil, You'll be the only one I.
Speaker 4: Would tell secrets and lies.
Speaker 2: Are you married? No?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: Hi?
Speaker 4: Are its sweet?
Speaker 3: I'll bet you got a boyfriend?
Speaker 5: No wer No, I know at the moment, a nice
Speaker 5: looking girl like you.
Speaker 3: Have you got a boyfriend.
Speaker 1: I'll give them all a wide berth.
Speaker 5: They got me into enough trouble.
Speaker 4: In the post.
Speaker 3: And the Pianist, I told you what we do, just
Speaker 3: tried and test your message. You no more, tweeted in
Speaker 3: the last war. Hey, you made a whole table legg
Speaker 3: and hit the money in there.
Speaker 1: And suppose they take the table away? What do you
Speaker 1: mean take the table away?
Speaker 4: The Germans go into Jewish homes and they just take
Speaker 4: what they want, furniture and valuables, anything do they Hey,
Speaker 4: what do they want with it?
Speaker 3: They were like this.
Speaker 4: For you doing that? Up until this week, I'd never
Speaker 4: seen who's a frid of Virginia Wolf?
Speaker 5: Fix me a drink, had Or, I said, fix me
Speaker 5: a drink.
Speaker 2: I don't suppose I can't killing one of us?
Speaker 3: A like, cap are you killing? You?
Speaker 2: Got? Yes?
Speaker 5: What guess guests?
Speaker 1: Guests?
Speaker 5: Yeah, guess people. We've got guests coming over.
Speaker 1: Now, Lord Mushin, you know what time it is? In
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six, under a full moon, middle aged married
Speaker 1: couple Martha and George real life married couple Liz Taylor
Speaker 1: and Richard Burton Instellar form drunkenly stumbled home from a
Speaker 1: university faculty party. Despite the late hour and the level
Speaker 1: of intoxication, their night is far from over. Martha has
Speaker 1: invited a young couple, Nick and Honey, George Siegel and
Speaker 1: Sandy Dennis, both excellent, who they met at the party
Speaker 1: over for some more nightcaps. What follows is a dissection
Speaker 1: of a marriage. Secrets are revealed, dangerous games are played,
Speaker 1: and drinks are drunk. Oh how they are drunk. At
Speaker 1: the time, it was the most expensive black and white
Speaker 1: film ever made, in the first film since nineteen thirty
Speaker 1: one that saw the film nominated for every category it
Speaker 1: was eligible four It won five Oscars, the film debut
Speaker 1: of legendary director Mike Nichols. From the script by Ernest Lehman,
Speaker 1: from the play by Edward lb Yonnie, Are you afraid
Speaker 1: Virginia Wolf?
Speaker 4: I'm definitely afraid of Virginia.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming back to do you insy nothing yet?
Speaker 1: I love a returning guest in the head of the Night.
Speaker 1: Last time it was a lot of fun. This one's
Speaker 1: a bit different. The reason we're doing Who's Afraid of
Speaker 1: Virginia Wolf? Is because we bumped into each other at
Speaker 1: the theater.
Speaker 4: Yes, there's a great production on at the moment in Melbourne, yep,
Speaker 4: at the Comedy Theater. It's a red Stitch production. So
Speaker 4: it's a tiny theater company who have done a big
Speaker 4: old like it's a huge production. Well, it's a huge
Speaker 4: theater anyway, which makes it a huge production. So in
Speaker 4: this production it's Kat Stewart and David Whiteley as the
Speaker 4: two main characters, and George and their partners as well
Speaker 4: in real life.
Speaker 1: Will turn our thoughts to the film when we come back.
Speaker 1: But I want to talk about your next three favorite films.
Speaker 1: So in the intro I did mention Michael Clayton in
Speaker 1: the Line of Fire and eighth Grade with your first
Speaker 1: three favorite films, But your next three favorite films, Let's
Speaker 1: start with Broadcast News. I'd seen it kind of when
Speaker 1: it came up, but it didn't me much to me.
Speaker 1: I think this is too young for it to kind
Speaker 1: of speak to me in real way or watch it
Speaker 1: you ainting nothing yet with Brendan Coal both loved it.
Speaker 4: Does that mean he had not seen it on the books?
Speaker 3: Oh wow?
Speaker 1: Again.
Speaker 4: It's sort of that it's comedy, but it's really talking
Speaker 4: about really serious things at the same time, and there
Speaker 4: are plenty of really serious, non funny moments that are played.
Speaker 4: It's pretty close to comedy a lot of the time.
Speaker 4: It just feels like the best thing that what it's about.
Speaker 4: Like there's a movie network that I watched recently because
Speaker 4: that's sort of seen as the great sort of expose
Speaker 4: of broadcast journalism and all that. But I feel like
Speaker 4: Network dates in a way that broadcast news doesn't at
Speaker 4: all interesting. I'm mad and I just can't take it anymore.
Speaker 4: When I watch it now, I just cringe. It's so
Speaker 4: repetitive and it feels like it's got sort of one
Speaker 4: idea that it just keeps hammering, Whereas broadcast news does
Speaker 4: it all through character. Whereas when I think of Network,
Speaker 4: I don't think about characters. I just sort of think
Speaker 4: about a particular political stance, whereas broadcast news all of
Speaker 4: the areas where journalists where they sort of sit on
Speaker 4: the spectrum of integrity I guess personified by the different
Speaker 4: characters in different ways. And they're also really flawed. Each
Speaker 4: of them is like so flawed. Even the one who
Speaker 4: is like, let's say the most good is just so
Speaker 4: deeply flawed, just gets me all the way through.
Speaker 1: And that's what.
Speaker 4: Maybe the ending's not amazing. It depends where you count
Speaker 4: the ending from.
Speaker 1: But true, I think as well, it's a good example
Speaker 1: because they're deal with similar topics. In many ways. Network
Speaker 1: feels like it's from the seventies and broadcast films is
Speaker 1: you know, mid eighties eighty six or something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think broadcast news is a more entertaining watch absolutely,
Speaker 1: you know, like network is a very oh yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and you know, Network for its time was probably a
Speaker 1: lot more edgy for its time, and broadcastings, like broadcast
Speaker 1: news is already in a world that's seen network. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know, it's not having to do the things
Speaker 1: that network did make. Brodcast news got to sprinkle a
Speaker 1: Jerry maguire about it like that, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like making like, you know, points and about
Speaker 1: certain things. And it's as Jim McGuire was about, you know,
Speaker 1: sports and deals, and I think broadcast news is making
Speaker 1: that with a bit more popcorn in it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's got that eighties sort of excited ability. You know,
Speaker 4: the music gets going and it's quite sort of upbeat,
Speaker 4: and it's got that famous scene with Joan Cusack running
Speaker 4: to you know, there's like two minutes until they broadcast
Speaker 4: and they've suddenly realized, oh, we need to get this,
Speaker 4: we need to get this Norman Rockwell painting into the
Speaker 4: edit quick quickly, and it's just this fun set piece
Speaker 4: where she's running she.
Speaker 1: Limbos under the file yeah, And when I think of
Speaker 1: Broadcast News, probably i've rewatched it. It's not the one
Speaker 1: I think about the most of that scene, but I
Speaker 1: growing up, if you said broadcast news to me, that
Speaker 1: was image I saw, Yeah, Joan Cuzack under it, the
Speaker 1: Fine Cabinet, Secrets and Lies, Mike Lee, Brenda Bleath and like,
Speaker 1: what an amazing I was Timothy Sprawl like, oh sweet,
Speaker 1: I think this is my It might have been my
Speaker 1: first Mike League experience. I think I think I saw
Speaker 1: Naked after I saw Secrets and Lies.
Speaker 4: I had seen Naked, and I didn't enjoy it at all.
Speaker 1: Nakeds are hard to watch than this. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Secrets and Lies is almost like his popcorn me, like, yeah,
Speaker 4: it's hilarious.
Speaker 1: The thing that this is mike Le's popcorn movie, because
Speaker 1: I do agree.
Speaker 4: It's just really palatable and all the family stuff so relatable,
Speaker 4: whereas Naked is telling a story of of like a
Speaker 4: really marginalized character that's kind of well, I personally found
Speaker 4: really hard to relate to. I guess I think I
Speaker 4: want to watch it again. I probably would like it
Speaker 4: now having lived a bit longer, because I think I
Speaker 4: saw it when it came out like when I was.
Speaker 1: Such a massive thing when you know where we are
Speaker 1: in our lives when we sit down and watch a movie,
Speaker 1: you know, like, yeah, and comedies are great because generally
Speaker 1: comedies are designed to work for a broader audience, you know,
Speaker 1: not always but often. But I think, like I said,
Speaker 1: broadcast news didn't hit me, you know when I was
Speaker 1: twelve or thirteen, right, and I watched it, you know,
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago when I'm in my mid
Speaker 1: to late forties and it's like, okay, yeah, I get this,
Speaker 1: this is great. Yeah, but yeah, if you haven't seen
Speaker 1: Secret Slide, it's such an enjoyable watch.
Speaker 4: It absolutely and it is very plotty, like possibly unlike
Speaker 4: his other movies aren't, as they're more sort of character based,
Speaker 4: but this has characters like the plot's really important and
Speaker 4: who knows what when and when it gets revealed and
Speaker 4: what happens at the end, Like it's all very when
Speaker 4: we like a movie that's like a Swiss watch is
Speaker 4: very that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yeah, your third film, well, technically your
Speaker 1: sixth film is The Pianist, a great film. It kind
Speaker 1: of brought age in Brodie too. Each Winsioska for.
Speaker 4: This, Yeah, well I know, he still does stuff, so
Speaker 4: he's sort of disappeared relative to that hugeness.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, he does with Anderson Films the Hotel, and
Speaker 1: he's always excellent, always excellent. You know, sometimes when you
Speaker 1: see a film, you're like, I'm glad I don't know
Speaker 1: the history of this actor, Like I'm seeing there's an
Speaker 1: excitement about seeing somebody for the first time, and I
Speaker 1: think this film has worked really well for that.
Speaker 4: You could believe the character because yeah, you didn't know
Speaker 4: him from some other thing. I think one of the
Speaker 4: great things about it is like it's a Holocaust movie,
Speaker 4: and we've seen so many of them now, but it's
Speaker 4: got a really specific angle and it's kind of like,
Speaker 4: what if a famous guy happened to be a Jew
Speaker 4: at that time, who was then you know, going to
Speaker 4: be hunted down and possible blea killed. But I don't
Speaker 4: think I've seen that story before or since. I mean,
Speaker 4: there's so much more to it than that, But I
Speaker 4: think that's sort of the hook, like, yeah, you know,
Speaker 4: he's got all this stature and he's obviously like you know,
Speaker 4: all these blondes are coming up to him, and he's
Speaker 4: you know, like he's got his kind of this rock
Speaker 4: star of his time.
Speaker 1: This is crazy that you like change, Yes, so quickly
Speaker 1: and so and so horrifically and traumatically. I mean, the
Speaker 1: world changed. Simmler's List had come out before This Life
Speaker 1: is Beautiful, I think was even before this. There were
Speaker 1: other Holocaust films being made as well. There seemed to be,
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, an appetite for these holocaust films.
Speaker 4: Sometimes that can be like it's like, oh, we've we've
Speaker 4: you know, we've seen this story too recently. But it
Speaker 4: didn't feel like that at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I must revisit it because I think I saw
Speaker 1: it when it came out, but I have not watched
Speaker 1: it since. Okay, let's talk about the film we are
Speaker 1: here to talk about.
Speaker 5: I actually fell through him. It that there.
Speaker 1: Martha's a romantic at heart.
Speaker 3: That I am.
Speaker 5: I actually fell for him, and the match scene practical too.
Speaker 5: For a while, Daddy really thought that George had the
Speaker 5: stuff to take over when he was ready, and we
Speaker 5: both thought the national.
Speaker 1: You want, I wouldn't done with you.
Speaker 5: Wouldn't would you?
Speaker 4: Would you not?
Speaker 2: You've already sprung a leak about you know what? What
Speaker 2: what about the sprout? The little bugger our son, if
Speaker 2: you started in this other business matha, I warn.
Speaker 5: You, I stand warned.
Speaker 1: Do we really have to go through all this? So?
Speaker 5: Anyway, I married the SOB. I had it all planned out.
Speaker 5: First he'd take over the history department. Then when Daddy retired,
Speaker 5: he'd take over the whole college.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: That was the way it was supposed to be, Getting angry, Vine,
Speaker 5: that was the way it was supposed to be. All
Speaker 5: very simple, And Daddy thought it was a good idea
Speaker 5: too for a while, until he started watching for a
Speaker 5: couple of years getting angry, Until he watched for a
Speaker 5: couple of years and started thinking that maybe it was
Speaker 5: such a good idea after all, that maybe Georgie boy
Speaker 5: didn't have the stuff, that maybe he didn't have a
Speaker 5: Dennis stopping mother like hell I will you see, George
Speaker 5: didn't have much push. He wasn't particularly aggressive. In fact,
Speaker 5: he was sort of a flat, a great big fat flop.
Speaker 1: Stop it, mother.
Speaker 5: I hope that was an empty bottle, George, you can't
Speaker 5: afford to waste good liquor, not on your salary, not
Speaker 5: on a social professor's salary.
Speaker 1: Was getting fiery, yarn? Did you enjoy? Were spoken a
Speaker 1: bit about the play. Did you enjoy the film by
Speaker 1: Mike Nicholson nineteen sixty six, starring, of course, Richard Burton,
Speaker 1: Liz Taylor, George the Girl, and Sandy Dennis. Did you
Speaker 1: enjoy Who's Afraid of Woman?
Speaker 4: I mean, obviously, I'm sitting there comparing it to the play,
Speaker 4: especially because we only saw it a week before. It's
Speaker 4: just shot so sparely, just looks really crisp and beautiful.
Speaker 4: I don't think I've ever seen a Liz Taylor films.
Speaker 4: I don't think I have.
Speaker 1: I think Liz Taylor is a good jumping off point here,
Speaker 1: because I agree growing up, Liz Taylor was the woman
Speaker 1: who got married a shit ton of times.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, and she was always a new idea,
Speaker 4: new idea.
Speaker 1: Yeah makesif Michael Jackson, Yeah, of course he knew about
Speaker 1: the celebrity of Liz Taylor. And I am so glad
Speaker 1: I've watched this film because I think this is one
Speaker 1: of the greatest screen performances I've ever seen. It's so good.
Speaker 4: It's good because of a lot of the things we
Speaker 4: were saying about Cat's do it, Like, it's that crazy
Speaker 4: role that just you have to deliver so many things
Speaker 4: and she totally does that, and she didn't want to
Speaker 4: take on the role as Richard Burton who convinced her
Speaker 4: to do it.
Speaker 1: Originally they wanted James Mason and Betty Davis to do it.
Speaker 1: I mean they were like, isn't that the Brandelina of
Speaker 1: their time? And they're both, you know, extremely talented but
Speaker 1: flawed human beings. Liz Taylor had they in their contract
Speaker 1: they don't have to work before ten am. They can
Speaker 1: go on a two hour lunch. They would go on
Speaker 1: long lunches, like boozy lunches and come back and apparently
Speaker 1: they would lovely the work with like they were, you know,
Speaker 1: really kind of kind and engaged and wanted to be there.
Speaker 1: But they just that's just how they worked. I wonder
Speaker 1: whether they were drinking as they were doing it. If
Speaker 1: they're going on having a few drinks at lunch, what
Speaker 1: scenes were shot before lunch, What scenes were shot after lunch?
Speaker 1: I would I love a director's commentary. We won't get
Speaker 1: it from probably anyone involved anymore, sadly, but yeah, this
Speaker 1: a little thing in the corner pretty lunch.
Speaker 4: The drinking is a huge part of the play. Like
Speaker 4: if you had to describe the movie or the play,
Speaker 4: if you had to describe the story, you have to
Speaker 4: talk about the fact that everyone for most of it
Speaker 4: is really drunk.
Speaker 1: They all start drunk to a degree they come from
Speaker 1: a party.
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, and it's that kind of repetitive thing that
Speaker 4: people do when they drink. That the dialogue's really repetitive,
Speaker 4: but it kind of works, like, particularly for someone with
Speaker 4: a sieve head like me who can't remember details, it
Speaker 4: really helps you as an audience. But because they keep
Speaker 4: repeating themselves and you're like, oh, that's right, yep, there
Speaker 4: is that thing about the sun. Good, yep, good.
Speaker 1: Well. It's often people talk about the locations a character
Speaker 1: in this film. But alcohol alcohol alcohol alcohol. Yeah, absolutely
Speaker 1: an alcohol movie, because there's no drugs in the movie play.
Speaker 1: At least. I think there was a reference to hiding.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure they were the cigarettes, or if they were,
Speaker 1: you know, I don't think that was in the film.
Speaker 1: I think it's important because I think if you introduce
Speaker 1: helysogenics into this with all the other stuff going on, yeah,
Speaker 1: then I think it becomes a little bit too confused.
Speaker 4: I think it would break it. I mean, for a start,
Speaker 4: there's a whole lot of imaginary talk going on, yes
Speaker 4: alcohol or not.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think alcohol he's probably seen as more of
Speaker 1: a truth serum. Yeah, and I think drugs are taken
Speaker 1: to a different area, So I think that's probably a
Speaker 1: choice that they've made.
Speaker 4: But also in that world, like it's depicting that world
Speaker 4: of college professors and stuff, could probably argue that college
Speaker 4: professors are getting into a lot of drugs. I guess
Speaker 4: they're drinking spirits, aren't they. They getting into the hard stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the amount of drinking is phenomenal. And this is
Speaker 1: obviously it's a play, and it was considered unfilmable and
Speaker 1: it was extraordinarily racy for its time. It was like,
Speaker 1: you know, because the films that you know, this is
Speaker 1: a sixties it's not in sixty six, so there's a
Speaker 1: loosening up of certain social values. But there's still, you know,
Speaker 1: movies that are playing along to the you know, the
Speaker 1: American dreams, and talking about that with this is like
Speaker 1: smashing the American dream.
Speaker 4: The American dream.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there is a lot of going on about
Speaker 1: reality and illusion here and I think America perhaps more
Speaker 1: than most countries, and not that they're alone. In Australia,
Speaker 1: I think we do it as well, but I think
Speaker 1: they're guilty of feeding themselves their own narrative and really
Speaker 1: believing it. Yeah, Like a lot of Americans have the
Speaker 1: blinkers on, yeah, and they can't you know much about
Speaker 1: the rest of the world. But this is the greatest
Speaker 1: country in the world. Whatever I trust it is. We're
Speaker 1: committing overseas, whatever, however we're treating our own people, however
Speaker 1: we're killing our own people. It's the greatest country in
Speaker 1: the world.
Speaker 4: But it's that sort of salesman sort of mindset of
Speaker 4: like if I believe it, then it will be like yes.
Speaker 1: And that's a massive part. This is like almost the
Speaker 1: central thing that's happening in this in this film, it
Speaker 1: with the kid. Yeah. Yeah, so that Yeah, it's considered unfilmable.
Speaker 1: It comes out it's obsos I mentioned in the intro,
Speaker 1: but the most expensive black and white film. They tried
Speaker 1: to convince him not to make it in black and white,
Speaker 1: Mike Nichols, and he basically said, I'll walk if you
Speaker 1: don't let me. Because one of the most important things
Speaker 1: is they had to cover up Liz Taylor's thirty three
Speaker 1: and she's playing a fifty five year old and if
Speaker 1: you see the color steels of her on set. It's
Speaker 1: just like clown Maker, the black lines, very visible black lives.
Speaker 1: So I actually didn't know how old she was.
Speaker 4: And I did notice those lines and I go, oh,
Speaker 4: they look like makeup, But I was just kind of
Speaker 4: interpreting them as she you know, perpetually hungover lines as
Speaker 4: opposed to age lines. And she totally seemed old enough
Speaker 4: to me to be doing what she was doing, Like
Speaker 4: I didn't for a minute go oh, she's too young.
Speaker 1: I think Mike Nichols does a really good job of
Speaker 1: adapting this. He's the right guy. He's his film debut,
Speaker 1: but I think he's the right guy because he knows
Speaker 1: the theater well, but he knows enough about film obviously,
Speaker 1: and as we will go on to prove that, he's
Speaker 1: kind of a genius. But I think that it does
Speaker 1: the work benefits from taking it outside of the apartment. Yep.
Speaker 4: I really like the stuff when they go out to
Speaker 4: the swing, yeah, and the way that's shot and a
Speaker 4: lot of it's from a distance, and then there's a
Speaker 4: really great moment when the swing is just sort of
Speaker 4: swaying from side to side behind them, because so much
Speaker 4: of it is those sort of static.
Speaker 1: It's just a great little effect. I don't know what
Speaker 1: it's saying, but that's all about the characters. So we're
Speaker 1: talking about met Liz Table. But Richard Burton plays George.
Speaker 1: He was concerned about playing because you know, he'd never
Speaker 1: played a wimp before. Is he a wimp? Like? He
Speaker 1: certainly fights Baggie. Well, he throws a few punches in
Speaker 1: this one. Like you can argue he's the nastiest piece
Speaker 1: of work in this play.
Speaker 4: I think at the start you feel like she's really
Speaker 4: owning him. She's really sort of cruel to him. Particularly
Speaker 4: at the start, you know, we're finding out about how
Speaker 4: his career is stalled. And but yeah, by the end,
Speaker 4: he totally I guess he what wins, although it's sort
Speaker 4: of a bit sweet at the.
Speaker 1: End is a question do they love each other?
Speaker 4: I think they like each other.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, which is enough to sustain the marriage. I
Speaker 1: think you're liking is as important as loving, I think sometimes,
Speaker 1: and I think both are important. I think they do
Speaker 1: love each other.
Speaker 4: I think they find each other funny, and there's a
Speaker 4: little bit of chemistry. Yeah, so I guess love is
Speaker 4: probably the right word.
Speaker 1: There's a moment before the guests arrive where they're kind
Speaker 1: of lying on the bed and they're teasing each other
Speaker 1: but not having enough teeth on going board.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they're genuinely laughing. It's a bit later on
Speaker 1: in the movie where they sing a song and they're
Speaker 1: kind of mocking you know, one of the guests, And
Speaker 1: you see these little moments of love, and I agree,
Speaker 1: we won't get to the ending too quickly, but there
Speaker 1: is some sweetness I think in the end. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I think they do love each other. The other question
Speaker 1: I would have is do you think this night where
Speaker 1: they've invited these two younger people over is a once
Speaker 1: off or is this something that has happened before. This
Speaker 1: is a routine that they because they love their games.
Speaker 1: Games are a big part of this film. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: do wonder if this is the only time it's happened
Speaker 1: or is this something that happens on a semi regular basis.
Speaker 4: When I was first watching it, and to be honest,
Speaker 4: that was during the play, I was wondering that. But
Speaker 4: I think by the end, isn't the reason we're watching
Speaker 4: this night is because she's broken the rule of talking
Speaker 4: about the made up son, Yes, in front of other
Speaker 4: people and that's why we're watching.
Speaker 1: So, you know, And I thought about the same things
Speaker 1: because like she.
Speaker 4: Wasn't supposed to she's never done that before because he
Speaker 4: hasn't destroyed her.
Speaker 1: And it's a really good point. And I thought about
Speaker 1: it as I was watching it as well, like and
Speaker 1: there needs be reasons like why this is a film,
Speaker 1: you know, And I was in the carriage, don't dicuss
Speaker 1: why this is a film, but like you know, we
Speaker 1: have the going to go why are we watching this night?
Speaker 1: And you're absolutely right, this night is the night because
Speaker 1: it goes pair shapes. But I do wonder if there
Speaker 1: are other nights because they love their games and I
Speaker 1: think they're lonely and they have some company and they're
Speaker 1: kind of spa in front of them and kind of
Speaker 1: they might almost get off on it.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, like when you're in a cup like you do
Speaker 4: sometimes like put on a show for people and you
Speaker 4: try and sort of go, oh, look, we're a bit edgy,
Speaker 4: but we love each other, you know.
Speaker 1: And sometimes you just miss you slightly. That was but yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's a fascinating kind of idea of and
Speaker 1: I completely agree with you that we are watching this
Speaker 1: night The reason we are watching this in twenty twenty
Speaker 1: four when it was made in nineteen sixty six is
Speaker 1: because this is the night that Martha betrayed their pact
Speaker 1: of mentioning the kid. Yeah, what makes her do that
Speaker 1: on this particular that's fascinating as well. So we don't
Speaker 1: know how long they've had this, you know, kind of
Speaker 1: facade going on for.
Speaker 4: But probably at least half of their marriage.
Speaker 1: You would think so, Yeah, you'd think so. So how
Speaker 1: many nights have they spoken to other couples about the kid?
Speaker 1: Why is it tonight? Yeah, like Martha transgressed and it
Speaker 1: happened quickly. That's the other thing. Why is he so
Speaker 1: concerned that she will? Maybe this points in the fact
Speaker 1: that maybe this isn't a regular thing. Maybe this is,
Speaker 1: you know, a rare thing that they've invited people over
Speaker 1: the house. Maybe this is the first time they've had guests.
Speaker 1: The house is not well kept. If people are coming over,
Speaker 1: she's drunk. They might have had a few drinks. They
Speaker 1: probably had some drinks with them at the party. Don't
Speaker 1: mention it? Yeah, yeah, I think that for me answers
Speaker 1: the question. Maybe it's not a regular.
Speaker 4: Thing, but she mentions it. Really early, and it's too honey,
Speaker 4: isn't it. Yeah, she breaks the rule after he warns her. Yeah,
Speaker 4: she actually goes upstairs and says, oh, we have a kid. Yeah,
Speaker 4: so is Martha kind of fixing for a fight? Why
Speaker 4: did she invite these two kids over to your young
Speaker 4: adults over to the house. Well, it's two am. All
Speaker 4: we know about the party that they've come from is
Speaker 4: that she was singing that song and everyone after as often.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was great.
Speaker 4: Is there anything else that happened at the party that
Speaker 4: would make her not.
Speaker 1: That I remember? I think I said to you a
Speaker 1: more than any other film I think I've covered for
Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm still processing this. Yeah, you know, I've
Speaker 1: did a little bit of deep diving, but more about
Speaker 1: the making of the film and that. So, I like,
Speaker 1: there's so many questions I have. I mean, the kid itself,
Speaker 1: is that related to the speech that George makes? I
Speaker 1: think George Killy's parents. Was George the kid in the car?
Speaker 4: I still don't know the answer to that.
Speaker 1: I think he is.
Speaker 4: There's something about he might have somehow accidentally killed his
Speaker 4: parents or.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I suspect it is. I think, why have it
Speaker 1: in there? If there's no real not that there's a payoff,
Speaker 1: because we don't know, but I think it's likely. It's
Speaker 1: the differenttween plays and movies. And this is obviously movie
Speaker 1: has been from a play. Players ask more questions. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I like to ask more questions with that necessary and
Speaker 1: let you think about them, where movies are generally more
Speaker 1: inclined to answer those questions for you. Yeah, of course
Speaker 1: not always, and some of our favorite movies and movies
Speaker 1: that you know, you end up asking those questions about
Speaker 1: and theorizing and having different opinions of what happened. I
Speaker 1: feel I think George may have killed his parents.
Speaker 4: Of course, there's a whole other thing where he was
Speaker 4: writing a novel about a kid who kills his dad
Speaker 4: in a car crash, and there's something about a porcupine
Speaker 4: trying to avoid a porcupine, which he then uses later
Speaker 4: as a detail in the story about their made up
Speaker 4: son and about how he died in his supposed accident.
Speaker 1: You know, when he goes I think George was the
Speaker 1: kid in the car, right, Okay? I like that idea.
Speaker 1: Does it marry up completely like accidentally shooting his mother
Speaker 1: and then almost like was it a deliberate act, to
Speaker 1: deliberately hit a tree on the right side of the
Speaker 1: car to kill Was there a pocky pint at all? Well,
Speaker 1: there's a lot of real imagined reality versus.
Speaker 4: And it all kind of fade into each other. So
Speaker 4: it's really hard to unpick that stuff because it feels
Speaker 4: like there's like, there's the story about their son, then
Speaker 4: there's allusions to his own parents. Then there's allusions to
Speaker 4: this kid that he talks about in the bar, whoever
Speaker 4: laughed at because he mispronounced that drink.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know what's going on with that stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, feel free if you know, get on speak Pipe,
Speaker 1: follow the links on our pages. Speak Pipe and you
Speaker 1: can leave a message for us. Will either hear your
Speaker 1: voice or yasny podcast at gmail dot com if you
Speaker 1: have any answers in regards who's afraid of Virginia Wolf,
Speaker 1: Let's talk about Sandy Dennis and George Siegel. Honey and
Speaker 1: nick names you don't actually hear on screen. You may
Speaker 1: hear honey, but it's unsure whether honey's their actual name
Speaker 1: or just you know, in the term yeah, hey honey, yeah, yeah, Yeah.
Speaker 1: You don't hear Nick, but Nick is his credited name,
Speaker 1: so both really good performances. Yeah's a young George Siegeal
Speaker 1: I've never seen a young George Siegel. There was one
Speaker 1: and Sandy Dennis wins an oscar, so Elizabeth Taylor and
Speaker 1: Sandy Dennis. I think she's really great.
Speaker 4: I think it's really hard to play drunk well YEP
Speaker 4: because she has to be drunker than everyone else and
Speaker 4: more of a mess YEP. And she does it so well.
Speaker 4: She's got that great look of confusion and then she pivots, and.
Speaker 1: She's so good. When you first see her, Yeah, she
Speaker 1: looks like she's in nineteen sixty six, and she's got
Speaker 1: a certain acting star that feels like nineteen sixty six.
Speaker 1: But as the movie progresses, I think it becomes quite
Speaker 1: a modern performance. So she is extraordinary. And you've got
Speaker 1: this story, of course, of how they came to be married.
Speaker 1: She's from money, so there's an initial attraction there from Nick.
Speaker 1: But then she had a hysterical pregnancies.
Speaker 4: I still do quite know what all that means.
Speaker 1: I think, no, not not. I can kind of get
Speaker 1: the idea.
Speaker 4: I'm maybe they had a miscarriage or was she just
Speaker 4: never pregnant.
Speaker 1: So she looked like she was pregnant, so you know,
Speaker 1: she had the shape of somebody who was, you know,
Speaker 1: early pregnancy. He proposed, because that's what you did know
Speaker 1: in sixty sixtion. And it disappeared. It disappeared after they Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I'm not sure how common this is as a thing,
Speaker 1: but she obviously has a fear of getting pregnant. She
Speaker 1: doesn't really want to. I think she maybe even has
Speaker 1: pills to maybe control, yeah, birth control. I think there's
Speaker 1: a line about a thousand little deaths or something, or
Speaker 1: a thousand little murders it might have been.
Speaker 4: Is her referring to or someone referring to that? Is
Speaker 4: that what makes Liz Taylor's character start talking about possibly Listen.
Speaker 1: I still think it's strange it it happened so quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I forgive it.
Speaker 4: It's good because it feels like a this is a
Speaker 4: thing to look out for, Like it just feels like
Speaker 4: a useful little tool as an audience member, Right, Okay,
Speaker 4: this is going to be a thing, like yes, yes, And.
Speaker 1: Then the alcohol is not the devil on the shoulder.
Speaker 1: It's just like you know, loose lips sink ships and
Speaker 1: so you know, I don't think it's lazy to because
Speaker 1: they really commit. It's not like they're drunk for a moment,
Speaker 1: and they really commit to the drinking in this And
Speaker 1: that's why I think they do a really good job
Speaker 1: of because you're constantly asking yourself, why don't they just leave? Yeah,
Speaker 1: why don't they just leave? You know? The player right,
Speaker 1: Edward Elby has come up with enough reasons why they
Speaker 1: kind of can't. And alcohol is part of it, the
Speaker 1: lure of another drink. There is some signs of bonding going.
Speaker 4: On, because even when they start to feel that, you know,
Speaker 4: that stage of drunkeness where you start to you've had
Speaker 4: fun and then it starts to feel bad. You're trying
Speaker 4: to sort of keep that at the door. That could
Speaker 4: be a reason why they stay.
Speaker 1: Well, you keep drinking, and Nick knows that, well, he's
Speaker 1: attracted to Martha and knows that she's the daughter of
Speaker 1: the big boss. So, you know, I think it's a
Speaker 1: full of plan. Mind you.
Speaker 4: I always thought that was sort of a confusing aspect
Speaker 4: of it, but I've never lived in that particular world.
Speaker 4: But it's like, hang on, so to get good with
Speaker 4: the dean of the university, you need to sleep with
Speaker 4: his daughter. He married daughter, Like, is that.
Speaker 1: Just work hard?
Speaker 4: Does that hold water? Just work hard? You know, do
Speaker 4: political things. I'm not saying there are machinations that you
Speaker 4: don't need to do.
Speaker 1: But how's that going to help? Yeah? No, but I
Speaker 1: like the idea that he's got a flawed plan.
Speaker 4: But everyone keeps talking about everyone's talking about that as
Speaker 4: if it's a thing.
Speaker 1: Well at the moment on the swing where they're talking
Speaker 1: about like taking one in the bush or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: and he laughs. And this is what you know, great
Speaker 1: movies and plays do. You're constantly asking questions, why is
Speaker 1: George allowing basically the seduction of his wife? Is it
Speaker 1: just yes, she'll do what she does and I can't
Speaker 1: control it.
Speaker 4: And that's a way of feeling controlled by saying I'm
Speaker 4: cool with it. It's a way of coming across like
Speaker 4: it's the one way of sort of feeling any power
Speaker 4: over the situation by going, oh, it's it's almost with
Speaker 4: his blessing, you know, yes, even though he hates even
Speaker 4: though he hates it, it's like, yeah, I can't fight
Speaker 4: this handsome young guy. I can't beat him on any level.
Speaker 4: I already know career wise that I've kind of not
Speaker 4: well failed, let's say, whereas he could be going places.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's already tried intellectually to kind of spar
Speaker 1: with him, and then he found that Nick can actually
Speaker 1: bite back and can hold his own I think Nick
Speaker 1: is a piece of work, though he's complicit in the
Speaker 1: febit of this.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, I mean to go into someone's house and
Speaker 4: just look them in the eye and then try and
Speaker 4: sleep with their wife, like while your.
Speaker 1: Wife is drunk in a room. It's pretty grotesque stuff.
Speaker 1: From there, I think Nick might be a worse blow here.
Speaker 4: Oh really, potentially.
Speaker 1: I think there's a sportsmanship going on between Martha and George.
Speaker 1: They are sparring partners.
Speaker 4: It feels like they understand each other as much as
Speaker 4: they antagonize each other.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. I think Martha actually even says so later on,
Speaker 1: Let's have a listen of Martha talking about her and
Speaker 1: her husband.
Speaker 5: You don't believe it, said Joe, you always deal on appearances.
Speaker 1: That's sack.
Speaker 5: George, who is out somewhere there in the dark, who
Speaker 5: is good to me in my room? File, who can
Speaker 5: keep learning the games we play as quickly as I
Speaker 5: can change them? Who can make me happy?
Speaker 4: And I do not wish to be happy, Yes, I
Speaker 4: do wish to be happy.
Speaker 5: George and Martha.
Speaker 1: Sad, sad, sir. There is a fondness and the love.
Speaker 1: And it might be that maybe people get to a
Speaker 1: certain part of their lives and they miss the old
Speaker 1: version of their partner or the younger version of their partner.
Speaker 1: But I think there is some tenderness. There's a volatile
Speaker 1: nature to their relationship. We might go to another clip,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not sure what clip they played if
Speaker 1: they were playing clips in nineteen sixty six the Oscars.
Speaker 1: But this is Liz Taylor in the car pack. George
Speaker 1: kind of pushed her into the car and she actually
Speaker 1: needs her head that she actually did hit her head,
Speaker 1: like all right, so when she came up to her
Speaker 1: voices kind of shaking a bit more than it may
Speaker 1: have usually. And Mike Nichols can use this take. So
Speaker 1: mis Liz Taylor, do you want to know what's happened? George?
Speaker 5: Do you want to know what's really happened? It snapped finally,
Speaker 5: not not me, it the whole arrangement, or you can
Speaker 5: go on forever and everything is manageable. You make all
Speaker 5: sorts of excuses to yourself, to hell with it, this
Speaker 5: is life.
Speaker 4: Maybe tomorrow he'll be dead, Maybe tomorrow you'll be dead,
Speaker 4: all sorts of excuses.
Speaker 5: Then one day, one night, something happens and snap it breaks,
Speaker 5: and you just don't give a damn anymore. I've tried
Speaker 5: with you, baby, I really tried.
Speaker 1: Martha, I really tried. You're a monster.
Speaker 2: You are.
Speaker 4: I'm loud, and I'm.
Speaker 5: Vulgar, and I wear the pants in the house because
Speaker 5: somebody's got to.
Speaker 3: But I am not a monster. I'm not.
Speaker 1: And this script was sent to Algie Hepburn and she said,
Speaker 1: this play is way better than I am, or this
Speaker 1: script is way better than I am. A US congresswoman
Speaker 1: said in Congress that she had lowered the prestige of
Speaker 1: American women abroad and tried to revoke her passport. What
Speaker 1: because she's constantly surrounded in scandal?
Speaker 4: She tried to revoke Liz Taylor's passport?
Speaker 1: Yes, right, Yes, because she's damaging the reputation of American women. Yeah.
Speaker 1: She was married many times, often in controversial circumstances of
Speaker 1: like dating men who were already married and they're marrying
Speaker 1: them and I didn't you want to get too much
Speaker 1: into that, because I kind of want to. It's such
Speaker 1: a brilliant performance and as you can google this tailor
Speaker 1: and read all the stories, but kind of just one
Speaker 1: of the focus on the performance. I think it's.
Speaker 4: Extraordinary knowing the little I know, which is there were
Speaker 4: a couple and that they had been married and divorced
Speaker 4: three times to each other. To me, that only kind
Speaker 4: of helps, you know what, Yeah, I just go you
Speaker 4: two really know each other. And I felt the same
Speaker 4: when I went to the play. It just made me
Speaker 4: feel really comfortable in suspending my disbelief and you know, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: I wasn't having to suspend my disbelief in a sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a moment I want to talk about earlier
Speaker 1: on which when he comes out with the gun, and
Speaker 1: it's the first time I think it's the first time
Speaker 1: we really kind of see Martha tightening the screws on
Speaker 1: George and kind of humiliating him when she's telling the
Speaker 1: story it's about the boxing match. She got a good
Speaker 1: punch on him, and he's listening to that, And this
Speaker 1: is one of the times where I think it shows
Speaker 1: what a movie can do as opposed to a play
Speaker 1: because it's great we followed George into the closet where
Speaker 1: he kind of gets the gun, as opposed to play
Speaker 1: where you're watching one room the apartment and George disappears
Speaker 1: and we stay with Martha.
Speaker 4: The film is really good at that gun under the
Speaker 4: table thing, like that thing of the feeling as an
Speaker 4: audience member that you know things that other that characters
Speaker 4: don't know. Movie ever, it always sort of fires up
Speaker 4: the engine of the story for you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, in the play it comes out with the little
Speaker 1: flag that drops down and says boom or something, and
Speaker 1: in the movie it's an umbrella. It's an umbrella gun,
Speaker 1: which are always given this umbrella gun. The math didn't
Speaker 1: know about.
Speaker 4: Oh, I know, saving it for in case she broke
Speaker 4: the rule.
Speaker 1: So when we get to the reveal of the kid,
Speaker 1: even if it was the play or the movie, well
Speaker 1: you got pretty clear where you're like, oh, it's there
Speaker 1: was no kid because I had a discussion with a
Speaker 1: couple of people and they're like, oh, I was a kid.
Speaker 1: Not realized that. Yeah, that's my impression.
Speaker 4: I wasn't sure until the end, but leading into the end,
Speaker 4: I was going, it's possible there's no kid. Yeah, it
Speaker 4: felt a lot cleaner in the movie, but maybe that's
Speaker 4: just because i'd seen it again.
Speaker 1: I think so. Sometimes I watch a movie twice for
Speaker 1: this podcast, So the first time it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a view, I might write some notes and then the
Speaker 1: second time let it kind of like wash over me
Speaker 1: or vice versa. Sometimes I do it in different orders.
Speaker 1: But but yeah, they wanted to change. This movie is
Speaker 1: really faithful to the play They wanted to maybe change
Speaker 1: because I had somebody coming to write and they wanted
Speaker 1: their kid to be real. But he's suicided in a
Speaker 1: closet that they then like plastered over and.
Speaker 4: No, well, they would just wreck the whole thing exactly.
Speaker 1: That'd be a massive red flag as a producer or
Speaker 1: director going to go, I don't think we've got the
Speaker 1: right guy writing this script.
Speaker 4: If you were the playwright, you'd be furious if that happened,
Speaker 4: because it's like it changes the whole thing of what
Speaker 4: it's about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we've said before there's a massive thing going
Speaker 1: on in this about the stories we tell ourselves.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if there was a kid who was suicided, but
Speaker 4: they're still pretending to themselves that he's coming over to visit.
Speaker 4: I guess it's still the same sort of idea of,
Speaker 4: you know, where we'd like to play this game where
Speaker 4: we pretend our son is still alive. And I think
Speaker 4: for a lot of it, I was wondering whether maybe
Speaker 4: there was something like that, whether he had been the
Speaker 4: kid who had died in that story in yes, in
Speaker 4: his novel, because they talk about how his novel inspired
Speaker 4: by his true life events in some way. So I
Speaker 4: think there was a period where I thought, maybe that's
Speaker 4: what the deal was.
Speaker 1: With the son.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's not as strong as just he's completely made up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like this version. I think it's surprising. My
Speaker 1: guess was that he wasn't alive, but he was, he
Speaker 1: was real, Yeah, right, And then maybe was connected somehow
Speaker 1: to that car story that maybe you know, maybe George
Speaker 1: was driving a car and it was the kid who
Speaker 1: was killed in it.
Speaker 4: And yeah, this is what I would say if I
Speaker 4: was in a tutorial at Yuni, Like, was there something
Speaker 4: about like the kid is like not existing, like the
Speaker 4: idea of a kid who kills his parents in that
Speaker 4: story in one of those stories that you're not quite
Speaker 4: sure whether it's true about George, Is that sort of
Speaker 4: like what happened to them? Read the kid has killed them?
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Like they're living this waking Yeah, that's what I would
Speaker 4: say in a Yuni tutorial. Yeah, I was talking about it,
Speaker 4: like is there some sort of symbolism about that story
Speaker 4: of the parents being killed?
Speaker 1: Yeah? The kid? Yeah? Why do they make up this kid?
Speaker 1: Is also an interesting question? Yeah, but you can't have kids, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it makes sense. And why is it so important
Speaker 1: that it meant it to anyone? I mean outside of
Speaker 1: like appearing crazy, Yeah, which which may be a simple
Speaker 1: enough explanation. But then why when it's revealed, when that
Speaker 1: secre gets out? Why is it over? Is it because well,
Speaker 1: we can't keep attending because people know now, which again
Speaker 1: is a simple enough answer, which I wouldn't completely accept.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Like you wouldn't want it to get around the campus.
Speaker 1: Well being set in the world of academia, Like you're right,
Speaker 1: absolutely right, Like you don't you know the idea of
Speaker 1: the professor of history of course is a bit nuts. Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely. And the thing I got the second time watching it,
Speaker 4: well you know the movie version, but it's the same
Speaker 4: in the play is he's actually pretty complicit in the fantasy.
Speaker 4: He is up for the fantasy. He just doesn't want
Speaker 4: other people to know about it. Whereas I think when
Speaker 4: I saw the play, I was thinking, it's that's her thing,
Speaker 4: and he lets her do it as long as it's
Speaker 4: in private. It's very much their thing I think, which
Speaker 4: you could argue is a loving yeah that he's committed
Speaker 4: to Yeah. Or they're both committed sort of one of another,
Speaker 4: one of their sort of games that they both sort
Speaker 4: of half enjoy.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Because there's a big theme of these games that
Speaker 1: get played. Like I said earlier, sometimes they're labeled in
Speaker 1: the aftermath. But let's have listened to one of these
Speaker 1: games being set up.
Speaker 2: Okay, I know what we do now that we threw
Speaker 2: with humiliate the host We threw with that one for
Speaker 2: this round anyway, And we don't want to play hump
Speaker 2: the hostess yet, not yet.
Speaker 1: So I know what we do.
Speaker 2: How about a little round of get the guests? How
Speaker 2: about that? How about a little game of get the guests?
Speaker 2: Jesus to both drop a child man? No, No, we've
Speaker 2: only had one game. No, we've got to have another.
Speaker 2: You can't fly on one game, childs. How are we
Speaker 2: gonna play get the guests.
Speaker 1: Do you be quiet?
Speaker 4: I wonder, I wonder.
Speaker 1: Ah yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, now Martha, in her indiscreet way, told you all
Speaker 2: about my first novel true or false, I mean toru
Speaker 2: or false, than there ever was such a thing. Anyway,
Speaker 2: she told you about in my first novel, My Memory Book,
Speaker 2: which I sort of preferred she hadn't. But hell, that's
Speaker 2: blood under the bridge. But what Martha didn't do, what
Speaker 2: Martha didn't tell you, what Martha didn't tell us all
Speaker 2: about was my second novel. No, Marth, you didn't know
Speaker 2: about that, did you? My second novel true or false?
Speaker 1: Tru or false?
Speaker 5: No?
Speaker 2: Well, it's an allegory, really probably, And it's all about
Speaker 2: this nice young couple who comes out of the Middle West.
Speaker 2: It's a Bucolic, you see. And this nice young couple
Speaker 2: comes out of the Middle West. And he's blonde, and
Speaker 2: he's about thirty, and he's a scientist, a teacher, a scientist,
Speaker 2: and his mouse is a wifey little thing who bargoes
Speaker 2: to brand.
Speaker 1: This is my game.
Speaker 2: You've had your game, you people, This is my game.
Speaker 3: Why are you this story? I love story.
Speaker 2: And Malt's father was a holy man and he ran
Speaker 2: sort of a traveling clip joint, and he took the feetful,
Speaker 2: that's all, he just took them familiar anyway, Blondie and
Speaker 2: his frow out of the plain stage game be funny.
Speaker 2: I thank you, mother, and they settle in the town,
Speaker 2: just like nouveau cos.
Speaker 1: I don't think you better go on, mister?
Speaker 4: Do you familiar stories?
Speaker 2: They're the best.
Speaker 1: Closing your eyes on this. Listening to the audio, it
Speaker 1: could easily be Anthony Hopkins, couldn't.
Speaker 4: It like, yeah, yeah, they both frem Wales.
Speaker 1: Is I'm not sure.
Speaker 4: I strongly think so because Rob Brydon, who likes to
Speaker 4: impersonate both of them, is obsessed with both of them.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: He was criticized I read somewhere for his English accent,
Speaker 1: which I find remarkable, maybe his choice of maybe playing
Speaker 1: in his English. There's nothing wrong with his English accent
Speaker 1: at all.
Speaker 4: But what criticized for it not because it didn't sound authentic?
Speaker 4: Is it an English accent or for choosing.
Speaker 1: To have one in that choosing because that sounds flawless
Speaker 1: to me, like nineteen sixty six acting styles aside, that
Speaker 1: sounds for us. Johnny Richard Burton was born Richard Walter
Speaker 1: Jenkins in the village of a name I cannot pronounce,
Speaker 1: which means he grew up in a working class, Welsh
Speaker 1: speaking household. He was a twelfth of thirteen children of
Speaker 1: a Welsh coal minor. Wow.
Speaker 4: So it's funny because you think of him as so
Speaker 4: rsc don't you like? You know, Yeah, he sounds a
Speaker 4: bit about Anthony Hopkins.
Speaker 1: Definitely. Yeah. Anthony Hopkins is definitely Welsh, isn't he He
Speaker 1: was born in Wales. Ye.
Speaker 4: It totally works for me that he's English in the movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I like it because that's I don't know, it's professorial,
Speaker 4: like to be English. One last question before we start
Speaker 4: wrapping up what happens tomorrow morning? So they've had this
Speaker 4: moment where it's revealed that the kid doesn't exist. Does
Speaker 4: this clear the decks for them to move on or
Speaker 4: does it burden their relationship further? I think it clears
Speaker 4: the decks for something new to happen, whether they this
Speaker 4: is the start of them deciding to break up or
Speaker 4: whether they get a dog, you know what I mean.
Speaker 4: It's like we're not doing the same thing anymore.
Speaker 1: It's been wrecked. Yeah.
Speaker 4: So like thank God at the end of the play,
Speaker 4: it does feel like there's some sort of change, yeah,
Speaker 4: you know, and I.
Speaker 1: Think there is hope there, sort of hope. I tend
Speaker 1: to think that they can move through this because I
Speaker 1: think we've seen the love and maybe this is the
Speaker 1: thing that they need to work through and maybe this
Speaker 1: is a version of working through it.
Speaker 4: And they needed people there to make it real, you know, witnesses,
Speaker 4: for them to admit to eat well, for particularly her
Speaker 4: to admit that it was made up.
Speaker 1: Because when Richard Burton is speaking to Latin, it's an exorcism,
Speaker 1: isn't it. But that's what they're doing, they're exercising this. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess so.
Speaker 4: I hadn't thought of it that way. I thought it
Speaker 4: was like a what's the word requiem? More? Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: but I like exorcism more.
Speaker 1: I mean I tend to think of when he Latin,
Speaker 1: you know, in those kind of situations, it feels like
Speaker 1: an exorcism. Again, pretty ballsy got of move. You know.
Speaker 1: This is pre the Exodus being out there. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure how many exoris and movies. So yes, okay, here
Speaker 1: are some fun facts before we wrap it up. I
Speaker 1: did mention that it was every Oscar was eligible for.
Speaker 1: It was nominated for all actors nominated for the Oscars.
Speaker 1: Liz Taylor gained about thirty pounds for the role. The
Speaker 1: line what a dump is from Bette Davis, which was
Speaker 1: actually be interesting if she if Bette Davis actually was
Speaker 1: cast initially intended.
Speaker 4: Her delivery that's really funny, like I didn't know what
Speaker 4: it was a reference to. It's a certain way that
Speaker 4: she says it. She's obviously doing a yeah, knows exactly
Speaker 4: how it was said originally, and it's really funny.
Speaker 1: The film is could be on Therus in nineteen forty
Speaker 1: nine and I should have actually maybe clicked it up.
Speaker 1: But it's a complete exaggeration of the line. I bet Davis.
Speaker 1: Actually I spoke about it publicly when it became a thing.
Speaker 1: She goes, I didn't ever play the line like it's
Speaker 1: fat and she really doesn't like so it's again it's
Speaker 1: a versions we tell ourselves.
Speaker 4: No one's saying in the play that she over that
Speaker 4: she overplayed it. All they're saying is it's just a
Speaker 4: great fun line that said, you know, like how things
Speaker 4: become a meme. It's just they were just done in
Speaker 4: this genesse Qua spirit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it'mor there's certainly a performative element that Martha
Speaker 1: puts onto it that is almost more English than the
Speaker 1: line was delivered. It Oh what I dump And so
Speaker 1: if you listen to the line, it's like it's almost
Speaker 1: thrown away. It's not as as big. But like I said,
Speaker 1: I love your meme example, but also the again, it's
Speaker 1: it's these versions we tell ourselves in Martha's head. That
Speaker 1: was the way bet Davis delivered that line.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, because it really resonated with her.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Really sad little fact that we spoke about Sandy Dennis.
Speaker 1: She suffered a miscarriage on set, which I don't usually
Speaker 1: like to give those kind of grim backs, but it
Speaker 1: just her performance the character so good, and then dealing
Speaker 1: with that material. I can't imagine dealing with that. Mike
Speaker 1: Nichols was advised to fire somebody on set on day
Speaker 1: one to get control the stamp himself as first on
Speaker 1: the director, and he wasn't sure if he was going
Speaker 1: to do it. And after one of the takes, early takes,
Speaker 1: he heard somebody at the first d D he said, ah,
Speaker 1: I guess it's just another picture, like dismissing that this
Speaker 1: is another one Sausage Factory, and Mike Nichols fired him
Speaker 1: ONOW and then later on Liz Taylor. They were shooting
Speaker 1: like a two minute monologue and she's getting to the
Speaker 1: end of it and you hear a stage hand yawn
Speaker 1: and they yell cut, and Liz Taylor, the first thing
Speaker 1: she says is don't fire him.
Speaker 4: That's really sweet.
Speaker 1: It's really sweet. It's really sweet. There are so many
Speaker 1: stories about Liz Taylor that I think it's nice to
Speaker 1: hear the more positive stuff outside of her extraordinary performance
Speaker 1: as Martha. This is the fourth of eleven movies that
Speaker 1: Liz and Richard made with each other. And Jack Lemon
Speaker 1: said yes to the role of George. He was offered it.
Speaker 1: He would have been great, He would have been great.
Speaker 1: I can completely imagine Jack Lemon. I love Jack Lemon,
Speaker 1: but changed his mind the next day for reasons unaware of.
Speaker 1: I said Augie Hepburn was off of the script and said,
Speaker 1: this play is much better than I am. But it
Speaker 1: was actually Katherine Hepburn.
Speaker 4: Oh my apologies, see Catherine Hepburn doing it at all
Speaker 4: as great as she is. Yeah, I feel that maybe
Speaker 4: she could. I'm sure she probably I just can't imagine
Speaker 4: her getting so sloppy, like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's a lady, yeah, and get strong and yeah,
Speaker 1: that kind of sense of you know, hot mess kind
Speaker 1: of Yeah. I think they are almost all seven point
Speaker 1: five million dollars, Like I said, the most expensive black
Speaker 1: of white film ever made in the US up until
Speaker 1: this point. Liz Taylor got one point one million dollars
Speaker 1: for the role hot Off Cleopatra, and but it got
Speaker 1: seven hundred and fifty thousand, So you know, Liz, Liz.
Speaker 4: So Mike Nichols just getting back to him, Yeah, yep.
Speaker 4: How is he as his first film directing? How is
Speaker 4: he getting to direct a film with Liz Taylor and
Speaker 4: Richard Burton?
Speaker 1: Well, he was big in the big in theater, right,
Speaker 1: Was he a theater director?
Speaker 3: Was?
Speaker 1: I believe he's a theater director? Right?
Speaker 3: So?
Speaker 4: Because didn't you have a comedy thing with Elaine May
Speaker 4: like that and they would make albums that were.
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, he was his own thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's still he's done those things, but he
Speaker 4: hasn't directed a film. It's pretty I think it was
Speaker 4: as an adaptation that would have helped him, no doubt,
Speaker 4: do you mean, because it's a proven kind of well.
Speaker 1: Because I think you have to have an awareness perhaps
Speaker 1: oh you can argue maybe maybe you din't, but maybe
Speaker 1: there's a school of thought that having an awareness of
Speaker 1: this the play, not just the play specifically, but plays
Speaker 1: in general, and then how can you adapt that. I
Speaker 1: can imagine being sold that this Sida Guru can actually
Speaker 1: is the rock either. Yeah, yeah, there word concerns that
Speaker 1: he might not be able to you know, but I
Speaker 1: think is really good. I think the idea of taking
Speaker 1: it out to different areas.
Speaker 4: And maybe it's that thing too, of like if a
Speaker 4: film director had done it, they might have made it
Speaker 4: more play like I don't know, like thinking oh, that's
Speaker 4: what it needs to be and I don't need to
Speaker 4: think of this like a film, whereas coming from plays,
Speaker 4: maybe that helped him understand how different it needed to be.
Speaker 1: I don't know. He makes Who's Afraid of Virginia woolf
Speaker 1: in sixty six, next to you makes a graduate gosh,
Speaker 1: Then a couple years lad he makes Catch twenty two.
Speaker 1: I've never seen that either of I actually must.
Speaker 4: When you have me on in five years, we'll do
Speaker 4: Catch twenty two. We will make it and put it
Speaker 4: on market for me Carla Knowledge. We did that with
Speaker 4: Karen Mason. They had a dolphin.
Speaker 1: I've heard of it. I don't know much about it.
Speaker 1: In the eighties he starts hitting silk Wood, Heartburn, but
Speaker 1: LOSSI Blues?
Speaker 5: Is it?
Speaker 1: Ah rated film? Working Girl, postcust Andrew regarding Henry will
Speaker 1: the Birdcage, Oh my god, he's yeah in the nineties now,
Speaker 1: but the primary colors, Oh my god, Angels in America obviously. Oh,
Speaker 1: he's just just incredible and like you know, Charlie Wilson's War,
Speaker 1: which is an underrated film as well, Closer. Yeah, he's
Speaker 1: the real deal. There's no doubt about that. And I
Speaker 1: think we're gonna be doing the graduate soon. Somebody has nominated.
Speaker 1: I'll let you know once it's confirmed, but it might
Speaker 1: be doing another Mike Nichols film coming up. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: most well known film. Yon. This podcast comes with homework,
Speaker 1: and you have bloody done it. The play wasn't homework
Speaker 1: for you that you're there if you're on acord backing
Speaker 1: it up watching the film. But basically we will texting
Speaker 1: each other after the play, Yeah, what are your thoughts?
Speaker 1: You know had great things to say about it, but
Speaker 1: we both said, really keen to see the film. Now.
Speaker 1: The first time I ever heard of this film was
Speaker 1: watching Cheers and Frasier kind of referred to it and
Speaker 1: he said, you know, and then it turned into a
Speaker 1: scene from Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf? And I was like, Okay,
Speaker 1: what's that movie all about? So whenever I heard the title,
Speaker 1: I always thought back to Cheers.
Speaker 4: It totally delivers, because not everything does. Like you know,
Speaker 4: you watch a lot of seminal things, and since those
Speaker 4: things were made, someone sort of got that idea and
Speaker 4: then did a better version of it. And often the
Speaker 4: seminal thing is disappointing. But I didn't find this disappointing.
Speaker 4: Like I think, it feels really good. It feels really
Speaker 4: kind of now as well, because things like Madmen and
Speaker 4: Revolutionary Road and all that sort of stuff is in
Speaker 4: recent memory, so it sort of sits in that kind
Speaker 4: of area. It's not like weird and old. Sometimes you
Speaker 4: watch things that are old and they just feel I
Speaker 4: just can't relate to any of this or I can't
Speaker 4: penetrate this. It's from a different mindset, you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, at the time was very progressive and like
Speaker 1: I said, racy and catholic. Kind of organizations try to
Speaker 1: have a band. That was a screening they had and
Speaker 1: they actually deliberately had the person who was obviously a
Speaker 1: reverend or something who had to decide. They had deliberately
Speaker 1: seated behind in Jackie Onassis, and once the film was finished,
Speaker 1: Jackie deliberately said, oh, jack would have loved that. Jack
Speaker 1: JFKB a renowned Catholic and Irish Catholic. So they yeah,
Speaker 1: got it. But there was in one of the states,
Speaker 1: you know, they had a band and they had to
Speaker 1: get it was overturned. So it was controversial.
Speaker 4: As well as being controversial with the language and the
Speaker 4: subject matter, it's also just really kind of dark, isn't it?
Speaker 1: For a movie?
Speaker 3: It is?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I also had the play. The first act was
Speaker 1: really funny. Yeah.
Speaker 4: It feels much funnier as a play, it does, Yeah,
Speaker 4: because you've got an audience of people laughing their asses off. Yeah,
Speaker 4: and then you watch it as a movie and you
Speaker 4: do laugh. But yeah, I kind of, yeah, I found
Speaker 4: it much funnier when I was.
Speaker 1: I completely agree. I completely agree mate. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1: You're an absolute legend. Love you and thanks thanks for
Speaker 1: watching Who's Afraid of Virginia? Thanks Pete. Yeah, this felt
Speaker 1: like one film that, even though it's in the play
Speaker 1: and the film back to back, I was still processing
Speaker 1: a lot of it. But I just think, to be
Speaker 1: absolutely honest, I'm so stoked that I've seen it because
Speaker 1: I think, like I mentioned in the chat, that I'd
Speaker 1: grown up really just hearing about all the noise around
Speaker 1: Liz Taylor but not actually seeing any of her work.
Speaker 1: And I think I really believe that watching her in
Speaker 1: Who's Afraid of Virginia Wolf, It's just one of the
Speaker 1: greatest performances I've ever seen. I loved it, and I
Speaker 1: think Richard Burton was awesome as well. I think the
Speaker 1: whole cast was amazing. So thanks for listening to you
Speaker 1: and saying nothing yet send us a line. Yasney Podcast
Speaker 1: at gmail dot com would love to hear from you. Also,
Speaker 1: get on our speak pipe. Love to hear your voice
Speaker 1: on the show. That would be amazing. To support the show,
Speaker 1: you can go to iTunes and leave a review. I
Speaker 1: recommend five stars. I really do. That would be lovely.
Speaker 1: It helps the algorithm work in the right direc action
Speaker 1: for us and gets the word out about the show.
Speaker 1: Next week on the show, we are going forward thirty
Speaker 1: three years. We're going from nineteen sixty six to nineteen
Speaker 1: ninety nine, that famous movie year. What a great year
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine was, and a film that he's much loved,
Speaker 1: you know, I would say on the art house kind
Speaker 1: of level. Spike Jones directed it. It is being John Malkovich,
Speaker 1: John Cusac, Cameron Diaz, John Malkovich, funnily enough are all
Speaker 1: in it. What a mind bending experience this was. I
Speaker 1: saw this as a preview before even was releasing cineas.
Speaker 1: I had no real idea what it was about, and
Speaker 1: bloody hell, it blew my mind and the person watching this,
Speaker 1: I'm so excited because I can't quite believe she hasn't
Speaker 1: seen it yet. Michelle Brazier is a fantastic comedian, singer, songwriter.
Speaker 1: She's been touring around the world recently, smashing it in
Speaker 1: New York, in Los Angeles, in London. There were some
Speaker 1: people you had to so happy to see have success,
Speaker 1: and Michelle Brazi is one of those people. Anie Donna
Speaker 1: fans will know she's being kind of connected with those
Speaker 1: guys for a bit, being in a lot of their sketches.
Speaker 1: But it's great to see her on stage, belting out.
Speaker 1: It's got an amazing voice. I think she's living her
Speaker 1: best life at the moment, and more and more people
Speaker 1: are discovering the hilarity and the power of Michelle Brazier.
Speaker 1: She'll be with us next week to discuss well the
Speaker 1: script written by Charli Kaufman, directed by Spike Jones being
Speaker 1: John Malkovich. If you haven't seen it, check it out.
Speaker 1: We'll see you next week. Take care, and so we
Speaker 1: leave old Pete see fan Salt, and to our friends
Speaker 1: of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant good name.