1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: Now we can acknowledge I know that you're not going 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: to enjoy this. Let's talk about what it is you're afraid, 5 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:19,239 Speaker 2: and this is why you're afraid. And the research is 6 00:00:19,239 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: basically found that when we acknowledge it, when we slow 7 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 2: it down, when we honor our children's feelings, let them 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 2: not it's okay to be scared. 9 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 3: And don't criticize them. They do fine. 10 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum 11 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: and dad. 12 00:00:31,560 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 2: Hey, Kylie, I've got to ask when you were a 13 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,440 Speaker 2: when you were a kid, how did you go with needles? 14 00:00:36,479 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 2: Do you have any memorable needles or vaccination moments? Were 15 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: you one of those kids that passed out when the 16 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 2: little sliver of shiny silver came out to get poked 17 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 2: and prodded with? 18 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,360 Speaker 4: Well, the first memory I have of having a blood test, 19 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 4: so I don't actually remember vaccinations at all, right, but 20 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 4: the first time I had to have a blood test, 21 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 4: I would have been twelve, maybe thirteen, and I was 22 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 4: very unwell and I had to lie down and I cried, 23 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 4: right And it was. 24 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 3: Just before or after the needle before right. 25 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:08,680 Speaker 4: And the old lady who was taking my blood, she 26 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 4: was really gruff and just told me to stop being 27 00:01:10,840 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 4: a sook and got really upset at. 28 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: Me missed the nineteen eighties. 29 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 4: And then I tried to get up off the bed 30 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 4: and I fainted. Oh really, yes, you. 31 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 3: Hit the deck? 32 00:01:19,959 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 4: I did? 33 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,080 Speaker 3: And did she say get up some biggest So. 34 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 4: It was it was a very traumatic experience for me. 35 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, you seem to do okay with needles nowadays, you've 36 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 2: had plenty of them. 37 00:01:30,720 --> 00:01:32,920 Speaker 4: Well, once you've had six babies, you kind of just, 38 00:01:33,280 --> 00:01:33,880 Speaker 4: you know, you just. 39 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 3: Lay there and take it all. Right, another leader showd 40 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: jab me again. 41 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:40,400 Speaker 2: I'm a fan of Happy Families dot com dot iu 42 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: the author of six books about raising kids, and you're 43 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 2: the mum of our six daughters, and we have the 44 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:46,960 Speaker 2: Happy Families podcast hosts. 45 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: Today, we're talking. 46 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 2: About something that many families are dealing with right around 47 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 2: the country, as we look to have children age five 48 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:58,600 Speaker 2: to eleven vaccinated against COVID. Now, we're not going to 49 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 2: get caught up in the politics of whether or not 50 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: you should or shouldn't at the moment. The expectation is 51 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,200 Speaker 2: that kids from five to eleven will and certainly all children, 52 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: is it fifteen or sixteen and over something like that. 53 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: They've got to be double vaxed and maybe even boosted 54 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: in time. Otherwise they're not going to be allowed to 55 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 2: participate fully in life in a lot of ways. 56 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 4: But the reality is, whether it's COVID vaccination or a 57 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,080 Speaker 4: blood test or another immunization, your children are going to 58 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 4: be faced with needles at some point. 59 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want to travel to many countries, there's 60 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: an expectation that you have to have certain boosters or 61 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:30,640 Speaker 2: certain shots or whatever it might be. So we thought 62 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 2: today we might talk about what research tells us about 63 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: how best to help the children deal with getting a needle. 64 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 2: And I think that we really need to get straight 65 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 2: to the pointy end of this conversation. 66 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 4: Is that right? 67 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: Do you think that was a sharp comment? Let me 68 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: inject some human into the conversation. 69 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 4: Okay, let's stop there. 70 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 3: I've I've got a tip for you. 71 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I'm actually quite interested. Is there actually research 72 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 4: on how we can help kids? There is, and when 73 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 4: it comes to receiving needles. 74 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: So this is about pain management, Okay, So effective pain management. 75 00:03:08,680 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 3: According to the United Nations. 76 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 2: The who World Health Organization, it's a basic human right. 77 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: It's good ethical practice to have effective pain management fund 78 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: It's a fundamental human right according to the major global organizations. 79 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 2: And when you're giving children needles, it's not just about saying, 80 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 2: line up, stick a needle in your off you go. 81 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:33,880 Speaker 2: You need to make sure that they're going to be 82 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 2: taken care of it. It's important because needles can be traumatizing. 83 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 2: You shared your story about your your passing out. Can 84 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 2: I share a quick one? Actually, I'm going to share 85 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: two really quickly. When the whole thing, do you tell 86 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:48,920 Speaker 2: the kids or not tell them? Okay, kids, we're going 87 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:50,119 Speaker 2: to get in the car, I'm going to go. We've 88 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: done both. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my mum, when I 89 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: was probably about eight, put me in the car and 90 00:03:55,760 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 2: took me into Gosford, growing up on the New South 91 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: Wales Central coast, and said, oh, we've got to go 92 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: and see the doctor about We got to the building 93 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 2: and as we were getting out of the car, mum said, well, 94 00:04:04,520 --> 00:04:06,720 Speaker 2: we'll just go and get your needle and then we'll 95 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 2: be done with it. 96 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:08,800 Speaker 3: Or something whatever it was. She told me I was 97 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 3: going to get a needle. 98 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 2: She literally had to pull me out of the car 99 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: on this eight year old and I was fighting for life. 100 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,480 Speaker 2: There was probably about the big, big, like ten meters 101 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 2: wide concrete steps to the top of this building where 102 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,239 Speaker 2: everyone was walking in to get their vaccinations for whatever. 103 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,599 Speaker 3: And Mum literally was dragging me up the stairs. 104 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 2: And I mean, I'm talking. She had one arm, and 105 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:32,720 Speaker 2: I was, you know, you see it every now and 106 00:04:32,760 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 2: again in the show. Is this kid trying to run 107 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 2: away from the parents and they've got one arm, And 108 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,440 Speaker 2: I was, I was not going to go in there. 109 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 2: In the end, she got me in there and they 110 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: gave me the needle, and I don't remember the worst 111 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: part was getting dragged up the stairs. I don't remember 112 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: the needle, and I don't know. A year or two 113 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: later I remember, or maybe it was a year or 114 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 2: two before, I went into the doctor's surgery, sitting in 115 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 2: the surgery and Mum said, well, it's time for the 116 00:04:53,920 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 2: needle now, And the doctor had to drag me up 117 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 2: from under his. 118 00:04:56,800 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 3: Desk like I was on the needle. Folk, I'm laughing 119 00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 3: at you, O proaout needlephobic. 120 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 2: So research tells us that we've got to manage this 121 00:05:05,040 --> 00:05:06,840 Speaker 2: well because it can be pretty traumatizing. 122 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:10,040 Speaker 4: It's interesting because, like I said, we've done this a 123 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,760 Speaker 4: few different ways with our kids over the years, and 124 00:05:13,240 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 4: the most effective way that we have found to deal 125 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 4: with this with our children is to literally sit them 126 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 4: down and talk about it. Yeah, And I remember the 127 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:23,479 Speaker 4: first time we did that, I thought, this is not 128 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,080 Speaker 4: going to go. Well. How do you have a conversation 129 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 4: with your four year old about the fact that they're 130 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:31,920 Speaker 4: about to have some sharp pointy things stabbed in there arm? 131 00:05:32,080 --> 00:05:33,080 Speaker 4: And it's going to be okay? 132 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if you've had daughters by the time their teens, 133 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,240 Speaker 2: they're going to have done this like the first six 134 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: years particularly, but even through their teen years, there's a 135 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:40,799 Speaker 2: lot of needles to be given. 136 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:43,520 Speaker 3: She blew me away. M hmm. 137 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 4: I told her that it was going to be like 138 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 4: a beasting. She'd had a few of those already, so 139 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 4: she knew what it was like. And I said, it 140 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 4: really really hurts when it first happens. And I said, 141 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:53,720 Speaker 4: and then it slowly disappears. And she looked at me 142 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,799 Speaker 4: and she said, huh, I don't really want a beasting. 143 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 3: No, that's I'm not looking for them. 144 00:05:57,839 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: And I said to her, I know, but this one's 145 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 4: going to make you don't get sick. And she kind 146 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,400 Speaker 4: of looked at me and she said okay, and we 147 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:07,800 Speaker 4: went literally walked into the doctors. I didn't even have 148 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,359 Speaker 4: to hold her, she just sat there. She looked at 149 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 4: him and she said, okay, I'm ready and he stabbed up. 150 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, and a lot of parents are still. 151 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 4: Going and I'm like, my eyes were all watery. And 152 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 4: she looked at me and she went, Huh, that wasn't 153 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:21,840 Speaker 4: as bad as I thought it was. 154 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 2: Right, But a lot of parents don't get to have 155 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: that experience, even when they have the conversation. 156 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:26,960 Speaker 4: We have a seventeen year old who's not like that 157 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 4: at all. 158 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, so let's talk about what the science says. 159 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 4: Realize she takes after you. 160 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:34,880 Speaker 3: It's you, it's your car. We'll just get back to 161 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,040 Speaker 3: the sciences stops right. Actually, let's do that right after 162 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 3: the break. It's the Happy Families Podcast. 163 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,360 Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having 164 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts 165 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 5: of Disciplined as a webinar to help parents set limits 166 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,040 Speaker 5: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happy 167 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 5: families dot com dot au slash Shop. 168 00:06:56,400 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the type 169 00:06:58,839 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 4: or parent who just wants as now and we've just 170 00:07:01,080 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 4: worked out justin is to blame. 171 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 3: I'm okay with needles nowadays. 172 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 2: Okay, oh my poor I'm a grown manly man, and 173 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 2: I'm fine with it. When we have a look at research, 174 00:07:11,440 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: scientific research tells us that distraction interventions matter, they're important. 175 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:18,680 Speaker 2: So a distraction intervention is basically there's all kinds of 176 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: so you can get them to listen to something and 177 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:22,000 Speaker 2: get them to look at something. You can get them 178 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:26,120 Speaker 2: to so there's acupressure or touch, all those kinds of things. Interestingly, 179 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 2: the ones that I've just mentioned in a recent meta 180 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 2: analysis twenty twenty one paper looking at a whole lot 181 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:35,000 Speaker 2: of studies different distraction inventions, those ones don't work well 182 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 2: at all. They're about to say, they're the ones that 183 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 2: don't work. So if you're saying, hey, listen to this, 184 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: or let's listen to some music while we jab you 185 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 2: with the needle, let's get you to think about something else. 186 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: Imagine you're on a white sandy beach. Doesn't work. Touch 187 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:50,400 Speaker 2: that doesn't work, holding their hand or getting them to 188 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 2: squeeze your hand. 189 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 3: It doesn't work. 190 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 4: Lollies work, and. 191 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 2: Acupressure doesn't work. Well, that's not a distraction intervention. We're 192 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: going to talk about lollies and rewards in a sec 193 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: The ones that do work, you're ready. According to the 194 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 2: twenty twenty one meta analysis that I'm using and will 195 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: put this in the show, notes, people want more clowns. 196 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: A clown distraction works, So any parents who can be clowns, 197 00:08:10,680 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 2: or any parents who can afford to higher a clown 198 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 2: for the vaccination, go for your life for you. 199 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 3: But they've actually done studies with clowns in hospitals. 200 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 4: We're actually not if it clown's the one giving the needle. 201 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:21,960 Speaker 2: We're talking about kids with chronic pain who are getting 202 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:23,600 Speaker 2: a lot of injections here, so they're going to be 203 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: in hospitals where there are clowns, which is why that 204 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:28,640 Speaker 2: one makes sense. The other one that really does work 205 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 2: is visual distraction, So getting them to watch YouTube or 206 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 2: funny cat videos on the internet, something like that can 207 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 2: genuinely make a difference. 208 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 3: Those the two. If you're going to distract, that seem 209 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:42,640 Speaker 3: to be most effective. 210 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 4: So what about rewards, would you recommend. 211 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: Them definitely, and the research shows that. Now I'm not 212 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 2: a big rewards kind of guy. In fact, for most parenting, 213 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:52,840 Speaker 2: I would say avoid rewards at all costs. 214 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:54,959 Speaker 3: But you mentioned one of our. 215 00:08:54,960 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: Kids who's terrified, terrified of needles and rewards. That's barely enough. 216 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:03,880 Speaker 2: But a really cool reward is usually enough. And what 217 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 2: we found with our children is that when we promise 218 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 2: them that once this is done, we're going to go 219 00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 2: and get you that treat, they're usually pretty well willing 220 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,000 Speaker 2: to put up with any level of pain at all 221 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: so that they can get the treat. And the research 222 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 2: evidence would suggest that a reward is enough to help 223 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: a child get through it. It's not necessarily a pain 224 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 2: management strategy, but it is a way to get the 225 00:09:22,360 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 2: child immunized and hopefully you've got somebody who can work 226 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:26,520 Speaker 2: with you on those other distractions. 227 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 4: One of the other things that I've noticed over the 228 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 4: years is we've had to take multiple children through this process. 229 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:35,480 Speaker 4: Is just acknowledging that it does hurt and it's okay 230 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:36,079 Speaker 4: to have a cry. 231 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: Well, this is the critical thing. 232 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 2: So I found another research paper looking at some qualitative 233 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: study just talking to nurses to parents and children as 234 00:09:43,920 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 2: they were going through through the injection process. And what 235 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:49,960 Speaker 2: they found is that number one, kids are definitely afraid, 236 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 2: full stop endo story. What they're mostly afraid of is 237 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 2: the needle going in the pain of that. But the 238 00:09:56,880 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 2: researchers found that the kids tend to find the after 239 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:02,920 Speaker 2: effects of the needle worse. That is, it comes out 240 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: and that's when the sting and the after effect, the 241 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 2: sore arm, that kind of stuff happens. And in terms 242 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 2: of what parents can do, we can essentially acknowledge, I 243 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: know that you're not going to enjoy this. Let's talk 244 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 2: about what it is. Let's name it. You're afraid, and 245 00:10:20,440 --> 00:10:23,600 Speaker 2: this is why you're afraid. Let's talk through how it's 246 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,959 Speaker 2: going to happen and answer any questions. And the research 247 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 2: is basically found that when we acknowledge it, when we 248 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 2: slow it down, when we honor our children's feelings, let 249 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 2: them know it's okay to be scared, and don't criticize them, 250 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: they do fine. I mean, you don't want to talk 251 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:36,679 Speaker 2: about it too much, not like you want to talk 252 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 2: about it for the next ten days leading up to 253 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: the injection, because they've got all that time to worry 254 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,439 Speaker 2: about it. But on the morning sit down and say, 255 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: all right, kiddo, in the next five minutes, we're going 256 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:45,559 Speaker 2: to jump in the car. Here's what's going to happen. 257 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: And the research evidence suggests that that's a really powerful 258 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:50,720 Speaker 2: way to do it. What we don't want to do 259 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 2: is criticize. We don't want to disregard, like this will 260 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 2: do your good or it's only a tiny, little thin needle, 261 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: it's not going to hurt that much. 262 00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 4: So do you have any advice for parents who are 263 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 4: dealing with children with additional needs like autism? 264 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, definitely. So this can be really tricky. 265 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 2: There's a diverse way, a diverse range of ways that 266 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 2: we might respond, depending on our child. I think that 267 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:19,040 Speaker 2: what we really want to do is talk clearly, acknowledge 268 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: those feelings, minimize distractions. When we're talking about especially children 269 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,160 Speaker 2: who have got sensory issues, a needle is already a 270 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 2: major sensory issue. We don't want to have a whole 271 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:31,160 Speaker 2: lot of noise, a whole lot of distractions and all 272 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: that kind of thing. I wouldn't recommend restraining. I don't 273 00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 2: think that that's a good way forward. We probably really 274 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 2: just need to talk to the specialists or the nurse 275 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 2: whoever is going to be giving them the needle and 276 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 2: ask them to work with us carefully through that situation. 277 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 3: It's pretty tricky. 278 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 2: Ultimately, I really think that distraction techniques are the best 279 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 2: way to go. There was an article published just a 280 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 2: couple of years ago in the journal Pain, and what 281 00:11:58,160 --> 00:12:02,440 Speaker 2: it showed is that when children are highly distressed, and 282 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:04,520 Speaker 2: when we're giving lots and lots of what we would 283 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 2: call coping promoting verbalizations, that is, you'll be okay, it's 284 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: going to be okay, you can manage it's not that bad. 285 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 2: The more that we do that, the worse it actually 286 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,199 Speaker 2: is because we're building it up so big. What the 287 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,040 Speaker 2: kids really need is I know this is going to hurt, 288 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 2: I know you don't like it. I'm right here for you. 289 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:25,400 Speaker 2: Give us a hug. Okay, let's go get that treat, 290 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 2: and if we can downplay it, explain, give them time. 291 00:12:29,040 --> 00:12:31,760 Speaker 2: That's really what our kids need to get through this 292 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:36,640 Speaker 2: needle issue in the easiest possible way. 293 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:38,559 Speaker 4: And I think that's what surprised me the most when 294 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:40,880 Speaker 4: we finally decided to just be truthful with our four 295 00:12:40,920 --> 00:12:43,320 Speaker 4: year old. Yeah, it was so interesting because it was 296 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,680 Speaker 4: just it's just going to be like a beasting and 297 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:49,959 Speaker 4: then it will disappear. She kind of just accepted it. 298 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 4: It made such a difference by just kind of, like 299 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:53,839 Speaker 4: you said, downplaying it. 300 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 3: If needles are in your future. 301 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: I hope that the point of this podcast has been 302 00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,080 Speaker 2: obtained and that we've been able to be sharp with 303 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 2: what we shared. 304 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 3: Did you see what I did there? 305 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:05,439 Speaker 4: Just end now please. 306 00:13:05,520 --> 00:13:08,600 Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Ryland from 307 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:09,120 Speaker 2: Bridge Media. 308 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:10,800 Speaker 3: Craig Bruce is our executive producer 309 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:14,240 Speaker 2: And if you'd like more information about making your family happier, 310 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:16,520 Speaker 2: visitors at happy families dot com dot au.