1 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 1: used by the world's most successful people to get so 3 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 5 00:00:17,680 --> 00:00:20,880 Speaker 1: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my workday. 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,480 Speaker 1: This episode is another my favorite tip episode. The title 7 00:00:25,520 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: is probably pretty self fix Funtry. It's about my favorite 8 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: tip from each of the interviews I conduct. The extract 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: I have for you today is from my chat with 10 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 1: Dean Swan. Dean is the country manager of Dropbox here 11 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: in Australia, where he oversees drop Boxes business operations across 12 00:00:44,800 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: Australia and New Zealand. And In case you haven't heard 13 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: of Dropbox, it's one of Silicon Valley's unicorns, which is 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 1: a company valued at over one billion dollars. Dropbox provides 15 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: file hosting and I've been a Dropbox customer for many years. 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: In this chat with Dean, in this extract, we talk 17 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,679 Speaker 1: all about how he has gone about finding the ideal 18 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 1: structure for his day and how that changed dramatically when 19 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:13,560 Speaker 1: he moved from a corporate role into a startup and 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 1: obviously now he's at a really big startup. So on 21 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 1: that note, let's go to Dean to hear about his 22 00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:23,760 Speaker 1: method for structuring his day. So. 23 00:01:23,920 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 2: I spent eleven years at Microsoft, so very large corporate 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 2: and large corporate. It's very structured. There's a lot of 25 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 2: distraction as well, and I think a lot of your 26 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 2: time is almost spoken for on behalf of you. 27 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:39,959 Speaker 1: Right. 28 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,440 Speaker 2: So, and one of the ways that you'd measure quote 29 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,000 Speaker 2: unquote your effectiveness is so helpful is my diary. If 30 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 2: I've got a lot of meetings of my diary and 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 2: it's very structured, and I'd say that's so that environment, 32 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 2: you've got an MBA in manager time. 33 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 1: Right. 34 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 2: Then I went and founded a startups as a technical 35 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,240 Speaker 2: co founder that was oppos entender of the spectrum. Right So, 36 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 2: in that instance, it's very unstructured. Your time is your time. 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:13,480 Speaker 2: You don't have people competing for time. One of my 38 00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:16,359 Speaker 2: shocks was when I'd opened up my calendar and it 39 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,679 Speaker 2: would be empty, and it's like the initial thing that 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 2: you've got to get get over is like, well, you know, 41 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:24,359 Speaker 2: I need to have this calendar full of meetings to 42 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:26,680 Speaker 2: feel like I've achieved something. In the day and that 43 00:02:27,480 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: was maker time, right. So then in the startup, you know, 44 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: I was creating something, so my time was all about 45 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: thinking about, well, how we're going to build this product, 46 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 2: what's the problem that we're solving for, as opposed to 47 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:40,959 Speaker 2: managing a whole lot of things. 48 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,680 Speaker 1: Right. Was there a transition period for you? Absolutely, because 49 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: I feel like that's really hard, And I mean for 50 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: my own my own work journey, I've spent the like 51 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,440 Speaker 1: over a decade running inventire. I mean, which is, you know, 52 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,960 Speaker 1: only about a fifteen person consultancy. But what was it 53 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 1: six eight months ago? I aansition from being CEO to 54 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,679 Speaker 1: being a full time maker essentially, and it's a hard 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:08,480 Speaker 1: shift to make. I want to know what were the 56 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 1: biggest challenges there and how did you actually get into 57 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:15,240 Speaker 1: the swing of going hang on? I've got no meetings, 58 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: but that's okay. 59 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is an adjustment, right. I remember before I 60 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 2: went into the startup, I had a coffee with Rod Jury, 61 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: who's the founder of Zero. It was his business coach 62 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: back in the day, and she said to me, she said, 63 00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,400 Speaker 2: You've got to unlearn everything that you've learned in your 64 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: corporate life to be successful. As a startup founder, and 65 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:39,520 Speaker 2: I thought I had an idea of what she meant. 66 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,000 Speaker 2: But I think I really dawned on me when, like 67 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:47,680 Speaker 2: I said, that first day in the office as a founder, 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:51,240 Speaker 2: opening up my calendar and just having this this empty calendar, 69 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: and my first reaction was actually start fulling up the calendar. 70 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:55,320 Speaker 1: It's not that interesting. 71 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: I started blocking out times. All right, I need this 72 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: time to do this, and you know, on this day, 73 00:04:01,680 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: at this time, we need to have a strategy meeting. 74 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 2: We need to check in on our KPIs and see 75 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: how we're going with that balanced scorecut. That lasted probably 76 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 2: about a month, and then after I was like, there's 77 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 2: no structure. It is very what's the right word, I 78 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 2: think volatile, unpredictable, because you're just problem solving all the time, right, 79 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:29,240 Speaker 2: so your day could be spent building something versus well, 80 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: we need to be raising capital and doing everything in between. 81 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: So that was my adjustment and then finding still letting 82 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 2: go of and then thinking about I need to manage 83 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: my energy. I need to manage my creativity. I don't 84 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: need to manage my time as a calendar. I need 85 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,760 Speaker 2: to think about, well, when do I produce my best work? 86 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: Like when I am my best at creative problem solving, 87 00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: when I am I best at pitching to a VC, right, 88 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,479 Speaker 2: And I was sort of thinking more deliberately about that. 89 00:04:58,760 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: How did you figure that out? 90 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 2: I had an intuition about it, and it came from 91 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 2: a strange place. Is before I got into tech, I 92 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:12,240 Speaker 2: actually was a chef, right, and running a restaurant. As 93 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 2: a chef, you actually have that sort of very different 94 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: sort of times in the day and that you have 95 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: to manage your energy. Right, So your day typically started 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 2: with opening up the kitchen, setting up the kitchen, doing 97 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: your prep, placing orders for supplies and that sort of 98 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: low energy, low focus, and then you'd have your service hours, right, 99 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 2: So then you'd do a lunch service and it would 100 00:05:39,880 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: be high energy, intense focus, and then you'd have a break, 101 00:05:44,680 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: and then you'd do dinner service and then you'd have 102 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,840 Speaker 2: high energy, intense focus again. But you sort of learn 103 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 2: how to manage your energy because the days were very long, 104 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: and then you could figure out, well, this is the 105 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 2: best time for me to do certain things. And I 106 00:05:57,480 --> 00:06:00,440 Speaker 2: think I sort of brought that into start. So what 107 00:06:00,480 --> 00:06:03,960 Speaker 2: I was like, Okay, I need time in my day 108 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:07,600 Speaker 2: when I can think about things and I'm not in 109 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 2: the task. So for me, I started adjusting my morning routine. 110 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 2: So the morning routine for me was getting up early 111 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 2: going for a run, and I found that that was 112 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 2: the best time for me to sort of mill over 113 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 2: or chew the fat and a problem that I was 114 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: trying to solve. And I always found that after my run, 115 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: i'd sort of just come to this point of a 116 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,520 Speaker 2: high moments or some enlightenment. 117 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:30,960 Speaker 1: I'd meditate and with your run, like do you do 118 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: you listen to anything? Are you like in putting any 119 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:35,720 Speaker 1: stimulus into your brain or are you running like silently? 120 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: Especially both? So sometimes I'd really want to just distract myself, 121 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 2: so you know, i'd want to get into a different 122 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 2: space and not necessarily think about the business and the 123 00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 2: startup and all the challenges that we're trying to solve 124 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 2: or so then you know, i'd get an inspiration and 125 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: put on a podcast, listen to Tim Ferris or whoever, 126 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,039 Speaker 2: and then just get my head into different space. But 127 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: then I'd find that, like through that I'd come up 128 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 2: with an ahei moment. All other times I'd just just 129 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,120 Speaker 2: not listen to anything and I'd just run and I 130 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 2: just get into my mind. 131 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, So anyways, after you run, like you might meditate. 132 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 2: Run, meditate, and then I'd go into the office. I 133 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 2: found that I needed to go to a place to 134 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: work in a sense. So we had an office in 135 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: one of the startup incubators, so I'd go there and 136 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: then for me, that was the environment where I went 137 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 2: to work, right, and then again in the mornings. Mornings 138 00:07:33,320 --> 00:07:36,960 Speaker 2: for me were my best creative moments, right because I'd 139 00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: had the run, I'd come in, energy was now high. 140 00:07:40,080 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 2: I was in a great space. I was in that 141 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,240 Speaker 2: creative space, and that's when i'd do the creative work. 142 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,320 Speaker 2: That's when i'd go to work on the products and 143 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: do the UAX, the UI work, working with our developers, 144 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 2: and that's where we're getting things done. And then in 145 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: the afternoon was typically the other things that were associated 146 00:07:56,240 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: with the business. So you know, I might get into 147 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,640 Speaker 2: the accounting work that I needed to do, or follow 148 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 2: up on certain conversations that we were chasing down as 149 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 2: far as raising capital was concerned. So I also found 150 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:11,360 Speaker 2: that I typically did VC meetings in the afternoon. 151 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: Why was that, I. 152 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: Just felt like I needed that sort of change of 153 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 2: environments and I felt like I wasn't doing my best 154 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 2: work in the morning as far as building stuff was concerned, 155 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,720 Speaker 2: and in the afternoon it was more about interacting with 156 00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: people and having those conversations. That was better for me 157 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:32,839 Speaker 2: because it was a change of environment, change of pace, 158 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 2: and I didn't have to do deep focus work. 159 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you found it useful, 160 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: maybe share it with someone else you think we'd find 161 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: it useful, just using the little share icon wherever you 162 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: listen to this podcast, And if you're enjoying how I work, 163 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: I'd love it if you could maybe take ten seconds 164 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 1: out of your date to leave a quick review for 165 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,560 Speaker 1: a star rating wherever you listen to this podcast. It's 166 00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: been awesome getting so much feedback from listeners. It really 167 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: does bring such a huge smile to my face whenever 168 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: you guys leave reviews. So thank you so much to 169 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:10,040 Speaker 1: the hundreds of people that have done so. So that's 170 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,200 Speaker 1: it for today's show and I'll see you next time.