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Speaker 1: Earlier in the week we learned the curfew in Alice

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Speaker 1: Springs is going to be extended until next Tuesday. The

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister in Alice today, as I understand, and told

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Speaker 1: us on the show yesterday that its plans would tomorrow

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Speaker 1: be announced for the longer term future of the town.

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Speaker 1: Now she's asked the police and departments what can be

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Speaker 1: done to keep the effect of the curfew without needing

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Speaker 1: the curfew, also acknowledging the massive impact that the increased

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Speaker 1: level of police has had in Alice Springs. Now joining

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Speaker 1: me on the line is the Independent Member for Ara

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Speaker 1: lun Robin Lambley. Good morning to you, Robin.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Robin. Will you please that that curfew was extended earlier

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Speaker 1: in the week.

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Speaker 2: I was enormously relieved, as were most residents of Alice Springs.

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Speaker 2: That has made a significant difference, and people I think

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Speaker 2: are just comforted by the fact that we've got a

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Speaker 2: measly extra six days. I mean, that's where we've come to, Katie. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: day that it's extends is a blessing. And given that

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Speaker 2: Alice Springs has pretty much been ignored by this government

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Speaker 2: for years, you know, that's the position we've come to

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Speaker 2: where we just have to get down on our hands

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Speaker 2: and knees and beg and be thankful.

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Speaker 1: Robin, what paint a picture for us in Alice Springs

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Speaker 1: right now? What is it like at the moment compared

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Speaker 1: to what it has been like, you know, for the

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Speaker 1: last number of years, but particularly the last year or so.

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Speaker 2: Well, we did a run around of the bottle shops

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Speaker 2: yesterday afternoon just to check that the police were standing

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Speaker 2: outside and monitoring people coming in. And what we noticed

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Speaker 2: yesterday afternoon is that it's much quieter. There's there's fewer

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Speaker 2: people in town demanding grog compared to what was even

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Speaker 2: the case a few weeks ago. There's a definite reduction

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Speaker 2: in the number of kids on the streets after six

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Speaker 2: pm in the CBD. But ready we're hearing of incidences

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Speaker 2: outside the curfew zone. So look like all these things, Katie,

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Speaker 2: they have to be constantly monitored and tweaked, because whatever

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Speaker 2: you put in place, it's not long before people get

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Speaker 2: around it. Yeah, and I think that, you know, if

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Speaker 2: we have unlimited resources, we should have put the curfew

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Speaker 2: across the whole of the town. It's not unreasonable that

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Speaker 2: all kids are off the street at night and maybe

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Speaker 2: put it back to about eight or nine pm instead

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Speaker 2: of six pm. That's a bit too early, I think,

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Speaker 2: But look, it's been a great start and we, as

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Speaker 2: I said, we're thankful that it's extended.

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Speaker 1: Robin the Chief Minister, said to me on the show

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Speaker 1: yesterday that she's asked the police and the departments what

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Speaker 1: can be done to keep the effect of the curfew

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Speaker 1: without actually needing the curfew. Do you think that's possible?

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Speaker 2: No, No, I think she's made a rod for own back,

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Speaker 2: which is interesting. I mean, against the personal ideological positions

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Speaker 2: most of her colleagues in labor who rejected a curfew forever.

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Speaker 2: She's made a courageous decision. But now we have experienced

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Speaker 2: what a curfew is like, the peace and safety that

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Speaker 2: comes with a curfew, I think it will be almost

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Speaker 2: impossible for the police to provide us that level of

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Speaker 2: security that we've seen over the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be a real challenge. And on top

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Speaker 2: of that, you've got the fact that we don't have

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Speaker 2: enough police. You've got ten South Australian coppers arriving yesterday

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Speaker 2: to do something or other. I'm not sure exactly what

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Speaker 2: they're going to be doing. Another those ten leaving and

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Speaker 2: another ten coming in a week's time, and then ma

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Speaker 2: finnesses two in two weeks time. So look, it's policy

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Speaker 2: on the run, it's crisis intervention. I get it. But

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Speaker 2: I really get the impression that Eva Laula is trying.

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Speaker 2: Unlike her predecessors, she is absolutely giving a go, but

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Speaker 2: it's almost like it is too late with all these

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Speaker 2: other factors coming into play, the lack of staffing across

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Speaker 2: all areas, all agencies in the public service. I mean,

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Speaker 2: you can't even get a gardener in Alice Springs, let

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Speaker 2: alone a team of coppers to keep us safely. It's

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Speaker 2: really bad, Katie. I'm not sure if it's the same

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Speaker 2: up in Darwin, but we were really feeling it. You

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Speaker 2: just can't get workers to do anything.

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Speaker 1: Robin, tell me in terms of those South Australian Police arriving,

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Speaker 1: have you seen them out on the beat do you know?

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Speaker 1: I mean you sort of alluded to them that you're

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Speaker 1: not really sure what they are doing. Have you seen

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Speaker 1: them out and about?

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Speaker 2: No? No, And I've asked her. I just asked around

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Speaker 2: this morning, and no one that I spoke to has

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Speaker 2: ithers but then arrived. It would have been yesterday around

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Speaker 2: midday and they have to be sworn in I think

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Speaker 2: as Northern Territory Police, So there's some sort of official

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Speaker 2: process that has to occur before they can act under

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Speaker 2: our legislation. So maybe by this afternoon they might be

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Speaker 2: up and running. Yeah something, Well let us know again,

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Speaker 2: we don't know, Katie. Yeah, every day is a new story.

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Speaker 2: You know. We've got enough coppers. No, we haven't got

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Speaker 2: enough coppers. We're getting two hundred more, We're getting more

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Speaker 2: from South Australia. We're getting a curfew. We can't tell

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Speaker 2: you if it's going to be extended. Oh, yes, it

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Speaker 2: will be extended to six days. What happens after six days?

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Speaker 2: Who knows. I mean, it's just it really is like

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Speaker 2: a merry go round now.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the police on the bottle shops, we

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Speaker 1: had heard My understanding was that Brent Potter had said

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Speaker 1: to the ABC yesterday that there was going to be

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Speaker 1: palis on the bottle shops. Then we'd also read a

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Speaker 1: letter that went out from the Northern Territory Police to

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Speaker 1: licensees of takeaway out let's saying that the palie wouldn't

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Speaker 1: continue after yesterday. We're of the understanding that there's sort

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Speaker 1: of a roving schedule of the police. What's the understanding

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Speaker 1: of the people in our when it comes to police

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Speaker 1: outside bottle shops.

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Speaker 2: Well, once again, no one's got any idea. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it changes every day. As you said, I saw that

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Speaker 2: letter that was sent out last week informing the smaller

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Speaker 2: bottle shops that they wouldn't have coverage, that it would

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Speaker 2: be with that roving police unit that would cover the

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Speaker 2: five smaller bottle shops, and I behole yesterday were told

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Speaker 2: oh no, no, they will be covered, and we went out.

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Speaker 2: As I said earlier, we went out and checked out

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Speaker 2: the bottle shops and they all had police outside of

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Speaker 2: them yesterday afternoon. So who would know, Katie. Every day, Literally,

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Speaker 2: I'm not exaggerating, every day is a news story. I

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Speaker 2: really don't think that they know themselves. What is going

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Speaker 2: to happen going forward twenty four hours in advance, let

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Speaker 2: alone weeks and months. It is. It is a moving feast.

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Speaker 1: To put it mildly, I suppose, and look, I get

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Speaker 1: it to some degree. I do understand that they're having

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Speaker 1: to be really kind of agile. They're having to try

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Speaker 1: different things. I understand that they must be trying to

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Speaker 1: juggle things that I appreciate. I really do that the

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister is giving it a red hot go right now.

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Speaker 1: But as you said earlier, you know, some of this

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Speaker 1: mess has been in place for such a long period

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Speaker 1: of time that like it's going to be really tough

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Speaker 1: to have a long term impact. If they don't have

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Speaker 1: a clear plane, well.

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Speaker 2: That's right, and if they don't maintain a strong police presence,

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Speaker 2: then all this will be in vain. And we've seen

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Speaker 2: that so many times before. You know, the Police Review

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Speaker 2: Vince Kelly suggesting that the police not take on that

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Speaker 2: role really is the definition of insanity. From my perspective.

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Speaker 2: I've been around so long, I've seen all iterations of

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Speaker 2: police outside at bottle shops. They were pretty much taken

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Speaker 2: away in their full capacity in twenty seventeen and twenty

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Speaker 2: eighteen at the former Gunner Chief Minister. He said, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's an operational issue. They can do what they want,

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Speaker 2: and so we saw attempts to have security offices take

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Speaker 2: on that role. But without the police badge and the

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Speaker 2: police uniform, it does not work, Katie, It just doesn't work.

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Speaker 2: You need police in all their glory, in all their

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Speaker 2: force standing at the bottle shops to have the full impact.

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Speaker 2: And we've been there, We've done it. We could write

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Speaker 2: an Encyclopedia Botanica about this. It is all done and

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Speaker 2: it's been tested. And for us to be going down

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Speaker 2: potentially this track again. Thank god Eva's onto it and

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Speaker 2: has closed it down. But it's just lunacy. Why do

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Speaker 2: we have to do this time and time again.

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Speaker 1: Well, and I guess, you know, I guess the other

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Speaker 1: side of it. And I was having a laugh there,

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Speaker 1: Robin about you saying we could write an Encyclopedia Britannica.

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Speaker 1: It is so true, you know, Like these are discussions

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Speaker 1: that we've had so many times over the years. And

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Speaker 1: I can understand that in an ideal world we don't

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Speaker 1: need palis outside bottle shops, and in an ideal world

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Speaker 1: we don't need private security as well, and it shouldn't

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Speaker 1: be the role of police, but unfortunately it's what is

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Speaker 1: required at this point in the Northern Territory because the

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Speaker 1: levels of crime and anti social behavior have reached an

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Speaker 1: all time high.

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Speaker 2: Exactly. Look, I even debate that, Katie. You know, what

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Speaker 2: is the role of the police. It's to protect us.

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Speaker 2: It's to prevent crime, it's to react to crime. And

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Speaker 2: in our springs where alcohol is arguably our number one problem,

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Speaker 2: then you know, standing outside the bottle shops, as boring

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Speaker 2: and as tedious as that might be at times, it's

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Speaker 2: such an important role. So I don't accept that premise.

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Speaker 2: But look, you know the Labor government back in twenty

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Speaker 2: eleven put police outside of bottle shops. They created this strategy. Interestingly,

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Speaker 2: which was which has been followed on by the Sea

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Speaker 2: Pa government and now this government that this Labor government

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Speaker 2: has created a youth curfew, and you know the same

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Speaker 2: thing is going to happen. We will all know because

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Speaker 2: we've now experienced the value of a youth curfew, and

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Speaker 2: that will be what people want to have in place,

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Speaker 2: because anything that gives us peace and safety is going

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Speaker 2: to be wanted more of. Yeah, you're spot on natural

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Speaker 2: human behavior.

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Speaker 1: Yeah you're sport on. Hey, Robin, I want to ask

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Speaker 1: I know that Labor and p Marian Scrimjaw. She's called

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Speaker 1: for a change in government legislation to designate organizations in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory so that they can be subject to

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Speaker 1: scrutiny over how they spend funding from the federal government.

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Speaker 1: That is according to Sky News this morning. So a

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Speaker 1: two hundred and fifty million dollar package, as we know

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Speaker 1: for Ollie Springs and Central Australia was revealed in the

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Speaker 1: federal budget last year with those plans to improve a

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Speaker 1: number of different areas. It's something we've again spoken about

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Speaker 1: on numerous occasions, but has revealed yesterday that she's reached

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Speaker 1: out to the Indigenous Australians Minister Linda Burnie as well

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Speaker 1: as the Attorney General Mark Dreyfus to adjust the Public Governance,

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Speaker 1: Performance and Accountability Act now. The Member for LINGIII said

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Speaker 1: the Act should be changed to ensure that all organizations

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Speaker 1: which receive government funding are subjected to scrutiny. She's told

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Speaker 1: Sky News, I've written to both Linda Bernie and Mark

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Speaker 1: Dreyfus to look at tweaking that Act to get greater

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Speaker 1: accountability for all organizations, not just land councils, but all

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Speaker 1: organizations that receive government funding that they move under that legislation,

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Speaker 1: which has oversight from the Order to General. What do

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Speaker 1: you make of that?

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Speaker 2: Robin good only Marion, I just love her work. Marian

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Speaker 2: is driven by ethics and principles, not politics. I think

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Speaker 2: what she's saying is absolutely required. Interestingly, Tongue in Jira

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Speaker 2: Council is coming under a normal less pressure. That's the

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Speaker 2: organization that oversees and manages the town camps and Alice

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Speaker 2: Springs where the riots occurred almost three weeks ago. They

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Speaker 2: have come out and said nothing. They have made no

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Speaker 2: public statements, provided no leadership, and they are coming under

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Speaker 2: increasing scrutiny by everyone, including the media, the public, other

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal organizations for not doing what they should delivering on

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Speaker 2: the services they're contracted to deliver. That's just one example. Look,

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Speaker 2: I support Marion's call. I think she's right on the money.

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Speaker 2: I've seen the opposition here in the Northern Territory call

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Speaker 2: upon the Northern Territory government to provide greater scrutiny and

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Speaker 2: accountability of the organizations they fund, and they've dug their

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Speaker 2: heels in and that can only be described as a

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Speaker 2: political act. Those organizations generally support labor and they are

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Speaker 2: not going to upset them. Doesn't give a toss to

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Speaker 2: the woman of principles, and I absolutely support her.

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Speaker 1: I agree with you. Like at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: this is tax payers money, and it needs to be

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Speaker 1: spent appropriately, but it needs to be effective. We're pouring

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Speaker 1: millions and millions and millions of dollars into different different areas,

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Speaker 1: into different issues. You've got to make sure that there's

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Speaker 1: KPIs and that they're being met.

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Speaker 2: And I'm told Kate, at the moment, the funding for

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal organizations is unlimited. They cannot give it away and

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Speaker 2: I double a. So this this has to the accountability

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Speaker 2: of these organizations has to be as powerful as it

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Speaker 2: possibly can. A lot of these organizations forget and so

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Speaker 2: do governments forget that it's our money. It's not their

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Speaker 2: money that they're playing with. Those organizations have public money,

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Speaker 2: which is our money, and we all deserve to know

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Speaker 2: what's going on that spot on.

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Speaker 1: Robin Lamley it he's always good to speak with you.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so very much for your time. We'll talk

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Speaker 1: to you again soon.

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Speaker 2: My pleasure, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you