1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,400 Speaker 1: I like to think about technologies that give us superpowers, 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: and to me, one of those things is being able 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: to download an entire book in like five seconds onto 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: the Kindle app. A lot of times when I'm waiting 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,920 Speaker 1: in line, I'll be reading a few pages in a book, 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: and my sort of litmus test is when I'm done 7 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 1: doing it, do I feel bad? And I never feel bad. 8 00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: I always feel great because I was reading a book. 9 00:00:21,880 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Whereas if I spent those five minutes, you know, refreshing 10 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,639 Speaker 1: Twitter or checking the stock market updates or something like that, 11 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: there's a chance I'm going to feel that sort of 12 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: icky sense of regret and kind of like, oh, what 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 1: was what was I doing for the last ten minutes? 14 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 2: You know? 15 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:36,920 Speaker 1: What a waste of time? 16 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,560 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics, hacks, 17 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 2: and rituals used by the world's most successful people to 18 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 2: get so much out of their day. I'm your host, 19 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of 20 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 2: behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and I'm obsessed with finding ways 21 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 2: to optimize I work date. My guest today is John Zaratski, 22 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: otherwise known as jay Z. Jay Z is a veteran 23 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,320 Speaker 2: technology designer, keynote speaker, and the best selling author of 24 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: Sprint and Make Time. 25 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 3: Jay Z has. 26 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,679 Speaker 2: Worked with more than two hundred of the world's most 27 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,560 Speaker 2: important and innovative companies, such as Google, Harvards, lack Ideo. 28 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 3: And Netflix. 29 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: For nearly fifteen years, jay Z was a designer for 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 2: tech companies at Google Ventures. He helped develop the design 31 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 2: Sprint and work with startups like Uber twenty three and Meter, 32 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,959 Speaker 2: Flatine Health, Blue Bottle Coffee, and Nest. And before that, 33 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: he was a designer at YouTube, Google and FeedBurner. I 34 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,400 Speaker 2: have been a huge fan of both jay Z's books, 35 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:49,840 Speaker 2: Make Time and Sprint, and about a year ago I 36 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: actually had his co author Jake Nap on How I Work, 37 00:01:53,280 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: which is an interview that you might want to check out. 38 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 2: I will link to that in the show notes. So 39 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: I think that you will love this interview. It is super, 40 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 2: super practical. There are so many ideas here in terms 41 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: of how to improve your work day. And it's also 42 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 2: worth noting that this interview was conducted BC before Corona. 43 00:02:13,440 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: So if some things seem out of context, like our 44 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: talk about traveling for work, because that's not really a thing, 45 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 2: right now just to keep that in mind. So we 46 00:02:23,760 --> 00:02:25,799 Speaker 2: cover a lot of stuff in this interview, such as 47 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 2: how to create the ideal structure for your workday, through 48 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:32,560 Speaker 2: to jay Z's daily reflection richeal, and how to create 49 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,320 Speaker 2: what jay Z calls a pro human smartphone, which I 50 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 2: think is such a cool idea. So on that note, 51 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 2: over to jay Z to hear about how he works. 52 00:02:43,280 --> 00:02:44,959 Speaker 2: Jay Z, Welcome to the show. 53 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:46,800 Speaker 1: Hey, thank you for having me. 54 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 2: I'm very excited to chat to you because I chatted 55 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:55,080 Speaker 2: to your co author of Sprint and Make Time, Jake, 56 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:59,079 Speaker 2: probably about a year ago, straight after I'd read Make Time, 57 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: which I absolutely loved excellent, So, you know, thank you, 58 00:03:03,840 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 2: thank you for putting two really great books into the world. 59 00:03:07,639 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: I'm a huge fan of Sprint running an innovation consultancy, 60 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: so read that many years ago as well. So firstly, 61 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: thank you because there are awesome books. 62 00:03:16,360 --> 00:03:18,200 Speaker 1: Well, thank you. I really appreciate that. 63 00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 2: In Make Time you start by talking about these defaults 64 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,600 Speaker 2: that you see people operating on, and I thought that 65 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 2: might be a good place to start if you could share. 66 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:29,320 Speaker 2: I guess, you know, what were some of the things 67 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: that you saw, particularly, you know, during your time at Google. 68 00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: You were there for ten years. You were at Google 69 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: Ventures for six of those years, Like, what were the 70 00:03:37,840 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: defaults that you were seeing in the workplace. 71 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: I'll start a little bit earlier, if you don't mind. 72 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 1: When I first got out out of university and got 73 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,360 Speaker 1: my first real job, I was working at a tech startup, 74 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: and I was a designer, and I did a bit 75 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: of writing and you know, as a tech startup, so 76 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: a little bit of everything, but I was primarily a 77 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: designer and it was my friend job, so I had 78 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: to learn how to do all this stuff I needed 79 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:04,720 Speaker 1: to do on my job. But I also needed to 80 00:04:05,440 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: learn how to manage my time and keep track of 81 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: everything that needed to be done, and I wanted to 82 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:14,400 Speaker 1: make the most of that opportunity. So I found myself 83 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 1: getting quite obsessed with productivity optimization, and I think I 84 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 1: read getting things done like three times, and I had 85 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:24,720 Speaker 1: all of the systems set up to a t. I mean, 86 00:04:24,800 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: the forty three folders, the inbox zero, all the stuff. 87 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,880 Speaker 1: And a couple of years later, when we were acquired 88 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: by Google, this company that I was working for acquired 89 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: by Google, I suddenly saw myself inside this much larger 90 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: company and found that more and more of my time 91 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,560 Speaker 1: was being spent answering email and sitting in meetings and 92 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:49,320 Speaker 1: doing administrative work, and less of it was really focused 93 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 1: on the work that was core to the purpose and 94 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:56,679 Speaker 1: the mission of my job. And I had this interest 95 00:04:56,680 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 1: in productivity. So I thought, Yo, this is my this 96 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: is my way out. You know, this is the solution. 97 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: I just need to get more efficient. I just need 98 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: to get better at doing more and be more organized 99 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 1: and be more on top of things. But I burned 100 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: out in that pretty quickly, and I found that that 101 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 1: doing more didn't mean I was doing the right things, 102 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 1: and it certainly didn't help me feel good about how 103 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,040 Speaker 1: I was spending my time. And it wasn't until I 104 00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,159 Speaker 1: worked at Google Ventures a few years later when I 105 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,960 Speaker 1: had an opportunity to go inside of lots of different companies. 106 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,719 Speaker 1: While I was there, I worked with almost two hundred 107 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 1: different startups. And it wasn't until then when I had 108 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,960 Speaker 1: the opportunity to go inside all these different teams sort 109 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: of like a consultant and recognize that this was not 110 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,280 Speaker 1: a unique problem. This was not a personal problem or 111 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:45,120 Speaker 1: a personal failure. This was something that everybody struggled with, 112 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: even these sort of you know, heavily funded, state of 113 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: the art, you know, the most innovative, most brilliant startups, 114 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: even they struggled to spend time on the work that mattered. 115 00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: And so a lot of the things that I saw, 116 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,040 Speaker 1: we're obvious things, you know, there are things like too 117 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: many meetings and poorly designed meetings. They were people starting 118 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:11,640 Speaker 1: their day in a reactive mode, so the very first 119 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 1: thing they would do is, you know, wake up and 120 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:16,520 Speaker 1: reach for their phone and respond to whatever emails there 121 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,679 Speaker 1: or whatever messages. But there was also this added layer 122 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 1: of what Jake and I call infinity pool apps, which 123 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: are all of these sort of optional things that we 124 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: install on our phones that we can pull to refresh 125 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 1: or they stream an infinite supply of content and people 126 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 1: people sign up for these things without really thinking, and 127 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,280 Speaker 1: then before we know it, a huge part of our 128 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:42,480 Speaker 1: day really is being spent by default. We're sort of 129 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:45,839 Speaker 1: reacting to the environment that we've set up for ourselves 130 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: instead of giving ourselves an opportunity to be proactive and 131 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:54,039 Speaker 1: be intentional about our time, which is the you know, 132 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:57,480 Speaker 1: the most precious and really the only finite resource that 133 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: we have. So I was seeing all those things, and 134 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: Jake and I developed the design Sprint process as a 135 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:08,360 Speaker 1: way of trying to help with that. And then as 136 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: we began to kind of think about ourselves and you 137 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 1: know what we wanted to make time for and look 138 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 1: for ways to help people outside of the constraint of 139 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,960 Speaker 1: this one week design sprint, we realized that everybody could 140 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: really benefit from having a set of principles, from having 141 00:07:26,520 --> 00:07:30,520 Speaker 1: sort of an operating system for daily life. And our 142 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: approach really was formed as an antidote to the crazy, 143 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 1: always on, always connected, fast paced culture that we were 144 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,119 Speaker 1: living within inside of Silicon Valley. 145 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 3: Yeah. 146 00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: I think it's so interesting that you kind of imagine that, 147 00:07:46,360 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 2: you know, these amazing tech startups in Silicon Valley have 148 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,480 Speaker 2: sort of got it down pat in terms of their 149 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 2: approach to work. But it's almost reassuring to hear that 150 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:56,200 Speaker 2: we're all struggling with. 151 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:56,840 Speaker 3: The same problems. 152 00:07:56,880 --> 00:08:00,520 Speaker 2: I think, and yeah, yeah, And I want to know 153 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: because in Make Time, you share Gosh, it's almost one 154 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 2: hundred different strategies. And something I'm always personally curious about 155 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,280 Speaker 2: when I read a book that's got lots of different 156 00:08:10,320 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 2: strategies is for the author or authors, what are the 157 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: ones that you're still using that you find most effective 158 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: in I guess combating these challenges that you were seeing 159 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 2: and experiencing. 160 00:08:24,440 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: Well, I'm a bit of a dork when it comes 161 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:29,720 Speaker 1: to this stuff. In fact, Jake and I refer to 162 00:08:29,760 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: ourselves as the time dorks. So I'd probably use way 163 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: more tactics than anybody really should. And the reason that 164 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:39,199 Speaker 1: there's so many individual tactics in the book is that 165 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: we wanted it to be like a cookbook. We didn't 166 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,679 Speaker 1: want to say this is the right way to do it, 167 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: and you just have to set up this system and 168 00:08:47,559 --> 00:08:50,560 Speaker 1: there's fifteen different pieces and they all work together and 169 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:54,120 Speaker 1: then you'll be good. Because that's really the attitude of 170 00:08:54,160 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 1: a lot of productivity systems, and they create this feeling 171 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: that if you're not doing it perfectly, you're a failure, 172 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:04,640 Speaker 1: and I think they create they create some fragility that 173 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: leads to kind of falling off the wagon or letting 174 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: the system fall apart when it's not all working properly. 175 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,760 Speaker 1: So we wanted to create a cookbook really a framework 176 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: around a set of tactics that you could try, and 177 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: we give people kind of an experimental approach to, you know, 178 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,320 Speaker 1: testing out different tactics and finding the ones that fit 179 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: their life. And so we don't expect that anybody do 180 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,200 Speaker 1: all of them, or even even a fraction of them, 181 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:38,559 Speaker 1: but the ones that are sort of my keystone tactics, 182 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: my everyday habits, are to start each day by choosing 183 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,160 Speaker 1: a highlight for that day that's one of them. And 184 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: so the idea here is to take a proactive approach 185 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: to planning your day and ask yourself the question, what 186 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: do I want to be the highlight of this day? 187 00:09:56,920 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: What's the one thing that is most or most requires 188 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:05,320 Speaker 1: my best energy and my best attention. And of course 189 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: it won't be the only thing you get done, but 190 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: there's a surprising sense of clarity and purpose from identifying 191 00:10:12,200 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: that one thing. And then the next step, and this 192 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:17,680 Speaker 1: is another one of my essential tactics, is really to 193 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: structure the day around that highlight. So to start by 194 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:24,360 Speaker 1: putting that highlight on the calendar and literally on the calendar, 195 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 1: build the day around it. And so there's a tactic 196 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,160 Speaker 1: in the book called design your Day that I use 197 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,800 Speaker 1: every single day where I literally plan out when I'm 198 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: going to shower and what I'm going to eat, and 199 00:10:36,080 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: what I'm going to work on when and to me, 200 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,920 Speaker 1: this is enormously freeing. And I got the idea of 201 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: structuring my time in this way from the writer Annie Dillard, 202 00:10:48,000 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 1: who writes about a schedule as a sort of scaffolding 203 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 1: for a worker, for a writer in her case, but 204 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: really for anybody. And just as a painter might stand 205 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 1: on the set of scaffolding, secure and confident that they 206 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: can now work with both hands, when you have a schedule, 207 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,720 Speaker 1: you know that you've taken a bit of time to 208 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 1: kind of set up that scaffolding ahead of time, and 209 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:11,199 Speaker 1: you know that you've made a plan. And then when 210 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: you're in that moment, you can be confident that you're 211 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: focused on the right things. You're not trying to when 212 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: you're in sort of that stressed out, busy moment. You're 213 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: not trying to decide between, oh, do I respond to 214 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: this one little email that came in or do I 215 00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: work on that thing that I really need to do. 216 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,320 Speaker 1: So that's another one of my key tactics. I find 217 00:11:29,360 --> 00:11:34,959 Speaker 1: it very very important to build barriers around distraction, and 218 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 1: so this is a place where this idea of default 219 00:11:37,720 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: really has a huge effect. We think about a brand 220 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 1: new smartphone, you take it out of the box, and 221 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: one of the very first things that you do is 222 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: you sign into your email account, and by default your 223 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: phone has an email app preinstalled, of course, and by 224 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 1: default it checks for new messages in the background without 225 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: you asking. By default it notifies you. And our environments 226 00:11:57,320 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: of our technology are really they're full of these defaults 227 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 1: that were optimized for somebody else's interest. You know, oftentimes 228 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: for the designers or the engineers of these products, is 229 00:12:08,960 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: optimized for their interest instead of for your interest. And 230 00:12:11,679 --> 00:12:17,040 Speaker 1: so the best way to avoid distraction is to cut 231 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: it off at the source and avoid getting sucked in 232 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 1: in the first place. So I use a distraction free phone. 233 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: That's another one of the tactics in our book, and 234 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,320 Speaker 1: it's really a phone that has no Infinity Pool apps 235 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 1: installed on it. And then the final kind of go 236 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: to must have tactic that I'll share is a daily reflection, 237 00:12:39,320 --> 00:12:42,120 Speaker 1: So taking a couple of minutes each day to pay 238 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: attention to what worked well that day and what didn't. 239 00:12:45,720 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: And this is this is really important. I think this 240 00:12:47,480 --> 00:12:50,240 Speaker 1: is undervalued by a lot of people. We're used to 241 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: being analytical and critical when it comes to our work, 242 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: and we're used to doing post mortems and retrospectives and 243 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:59,959 Speaker 1: all these things you know in our projects at work, 244 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: but it's rare that we look back at our time. 245 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:05,560 Speaker 1: It's rare that we really analyze how we spent our time. 246 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,079 Speaker 1: But as I mentioned before, time is our only finite resource, 247 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: and so I think it's really important to do a 248 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,880 Speaker 1: bit of reflection each day. And in the book, we 249 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: created a sort of a template that people can use 250 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: so that this really only takes a couple of minutes. 251 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 1: You can ask yourself, what was my highlight today? Did 252 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: I make time for it, how focused did I feel, 253 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,600 Speaker 1: how energized did I feel? And then which tactics did 254 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:32,319 Speaker 1: I try? And which tactics am I going to try tomorrow? 255 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 1: And this sort of sets up a nice feedback loop 256 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: where you can continue to experiment with these tactics and 257 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 1: tweak them and adapt them over time. 258 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:41,079 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great. 259 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 2: I want to delve into a few of those things 260 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,480 Speaker 2: that you talked about, and firstly, starting with the highlight, 261 00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: which is the thing that you build your day around. 262 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 2: How do you decide what your highlight is going to 263 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 2: be on any given day. 264 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:59,040 Speaker 1: I've been thinking about my days in this way for 265 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: a very long time. Starting I was just looking back. Actually, 266 00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:06,360 Speaker 1: right now, we're teaching a course called the Highlight Course, 267 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: and so I was looking back to see when I 268 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: first started doing this, and I think it was around 269 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,120 Speaker 1: twenty fourteen when I first started planning my days around 270 00:14:14,160 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: a single highlight. And so nowadays it's very intuitive, you know, 271 00:14:19,560 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: I have this intuitive sense when I ask myself the 272 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:24,760 Speaker 1: question what I want to be the highlight of my day, 273 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,760 Speaker 1: I have this intuitive sense of what is most important. 274 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: But for people who are new to planning their days 275 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,680 Speaker 1: in this way, there are a few strategies that we recommend. 276 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: One is to think about urgency really just to look 277 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 1: at those things that need to get done that are 278 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:45,440 Speaker 1: time sensitive and make sure that they have space in 279 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: the day, because all of us have been in that 280 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: situation where there's something that needs to get done, but 281 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: the day is full of meetings and emails and other 282 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,440 Speaker 1: fires and things that pop up, and then at the 283 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:58,280 Speaker 1: end of the day we find like, Okay, now that 284 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: I'm done with all my work, I can find get 285 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 1: that one thing done that I needed to do. And 286 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,120 Speaker 1: so even when it's something that is time sensitive, it's 287 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,360 Speaker 1: really valuable and really helpful to make it your highlight 288 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,960 Speaker 1: and structure the day around it. The next strategy is 289 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: about satisfaction, and it's to look for those projects that 290 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: are really important to you, but that maybe nobody is 291 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: asking you for. You know, a a new initiative that 292 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,360 Speaker 1: you want to get off the ground, a new hobby 293 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: that you want to start in your personal life, and 294 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: make that your highlight. It's the sort of thing that 295 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,200 Speaker 1: nobody is ever going to prioritize for you. And if 296 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,840 Speaker 1: you wait until things are perfect and you magically have 297 00:15:38,920 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: space for it, you may find that that someday never comes, 298 00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: and so you can you can kind of short circuit 299 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:53,880 Speaker 1: that process, that that loop of reaction by making a 300 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: satisfying activity your highlight. And then the third strategy that 301 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: we often suggest people try and that I use it 302 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 1: a couple times a week is is one of joy. 303 00:16:03,000 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: Just to look for things that are gonna be fun. Again, 304 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:09,520 Speaker 1: the types of things that nobody is gonna prioritize for you, 305 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: nobody's gonna make you do, but they're so important. They're 306 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 1: important because play is valuable, because it's it's valuable, and 307 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,760 Speaker 1: it's fun to spend time with friends, it's fun to 308 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: do things for ourselves and It's also it's also important 309 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:29,840 Speaker 1: that we take time to rest and recover and recharge, 310 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 1: and so those three strategies urgency, satisfaction, and joy can 311 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: often provide sort of template for how you choose a highlight. 312 00:16:39,640 --> 00:16:41,880 Speaker 1: And even though I'm doing this mostly as an intuitive 313 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: process nowadays, I find myself kind of rotating between those. 314 00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:47,080 Speaker 1: You know, I'll have a couple of days during the 315 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: week when I'm when I'm working on getting new projects 316 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: off the ground. Then maybe I'll have a couple of 317 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:53,560 Speaker 1: days of kind of catching up on some time set 318 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: sensitive things. And then maybe toward the end of the 319 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 1: week or the weekend, I'll have a couple of days 320 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 1: where my highlight is is something I feel, something that 321 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,520 Speaker 1: really is for me and the people that I care about. 322 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 3: I like that. 323 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,040 Speaker 2: I'm curious as to whether the process of picking a 324 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:13,640 Speaker 2: highlight is quite different when you work within a company 325 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 2: like Google Ventures versus working for yourself, which you now do. 326 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,400 Speaker 2: Do you find that it's a bit of a different process. 327 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,560 Speaker 2: Are you able to, you know, perhaps spend more time 328 00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: on the satisfaction and joy categories rather than urgent, or 329 00:17:28,640 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 2: does it kind of pound out in a similar way 330 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: in terms of that process of selecting your highlight. 331 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,120 Speaker 1: For me, it's surprisingly similar. It has been surprisingly similar 332 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: between being inside a company and working for myself, because 333 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:47,040 Speaker 1: I am very motivated by the idea of doing work 334 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: in the service of others. So I'm you know, I 335 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,000 Speaker 1: wake up excited to write and to teach my course 336 00:17:53,200 --> 00:17:56,800 Speaker 1: and to go facilitate a workshop, whatever it might be, 337 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:01,560 Speaker 1: and so those things sort of align very much with 338 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: the things that I would choose as my highlights when 339 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:07,160 Speaker 1: I was still working inside a company. You know, what's 340 00:18:07,200 --> 00:18:09,200 Speaker 1: the thing that I'm doing today or that I would 341 00:18:09,280 --> 00:18:12,520 Speaker 1: like to do today that is at the core of 342 00:18:12,560 --> 00:18:15,359 Speaker 1: the value that I'm providing in this job and really 343 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,400 Speaker 1: as close as possible to the core of why our 344 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:21,560 Speaker 1: company exists and what it is that we really do here. 345 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: I will say that one thing that has changed is 346 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: that my highlights now often are bigger than they used 347 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,680 Speaker 1: to be. So when I was at Google Ventures In 348 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: you know, when I worked at Google and I worked 349 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: at YouTube, most of my day was kind of planned 350 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: out for me to a certain extent, and so I 351 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,520 Speaker 1: found that the space that I had to work with 352 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 1: the part of the day, the part of my schedule, 353 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,080 Speaker 1: the part of my priorities that I could really control 354 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: was a bit smaller. And this is really the advice 355 00:18:51,840 --> 00:18:54,000 Speaker 1: that we give to people who feel like they don't 356 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,200 Speaker 1: have any space in their day but they're still interested 357 00:18:56,280 --> 00:19:00,520 Speaker 1: in this idea of a highlight. We say, try two 358 00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 1: different things. One is to look at what you already 359 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: have to do. Look at what is already on your calendar, 360 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 1: the projects you're working on, the meanings you need to 361 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:12,159 Speaker 1: go to whatever, and maybe one of those things is 362 00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:14,479 Speaker 1: highlight material. Maybe one of those things that you were 363 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:17,440 Speaker 1: already committed to is the thing that would most benefit 364 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: from having your undivided attention. But if that's not the case, 365 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 1: then look at the margins. Look outside of what you're 366 00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 1: doing in the office, to things that you might be 367 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:28,399 Speaker 1: doing in the morning or in the evening with friends 368 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: or family or for yourself. And we actually used this, 369 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,399 Speaker 1: this strategy, this tactic of choosing a highlight as we 370 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:39,200 Speaker 1: were writing Make Time, the book itself. We were doing 371 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 1: this kind of on mornings and nights and weekends while 372 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:46,720 Speaker 1: we were still working at Google Ventures. And so even 373 00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: though our days were largely scheduled and kind of a 374 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: you know, typical sort of a corporate office environment, where 375 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: there's always lots going on. We were able to make 376 00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:58,720 Speaker 1: time for a big project that was important to us, 377 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 1: but it was just sort of on the margins. It 378 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 1: was in the parts of our days that we really. 379 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:09,160 Speaker 2: Controlled what I also delve into your calendar, which you mentioned, 380 00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 2: and I know you've written about how you don't have 381 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:15,400 Speaker 2: a to do list and you use your calendar instead. 382 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:17,719 Speaker 2: Can you explain a bit about that, because there are 383 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,199 Speaker 2: obviously big chunks that might go in your calendar, and 384 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:24,960 Speaker 2: you mentioned that you were essentially blocking out every hour 385 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,160 Speaker 2: of your day, whether it be having a shower, going 386 00:20:28,200 --> 00:20:30,719 Speaker 2: to the gym, working on a project, and so forth. 387 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:33,200 Speaker 2: But I was also curious, what about just those little 388 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 2: things that pop up that take two or three or 389 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,080 Speaker 2: five minutes, like you're putting them on the calendar as well. 390 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 2: I'd like talk me through how this is looking in 391 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:42,320 Speaker 2: your life. 392 00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:46,480 Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, well it depends what they are. So I'm 393 00:20:46,520 --> 00:20:50,160 Speaker 1: a big fan of batch processing. I believe that when 394 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:53,640 Speaker 1: we can focus on doing one thing at a time 395 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: and do it well, that we will we will not 396 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,880 Speaker 1: only be better doing that thing, but will be calmer 397 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:05,720 Speaker 1: and happier as people. And there's actually some research from 398 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:10,680 Speaker 1: the University of British Columbia showing that when people check 399 00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: their email fewer times a day, they actually become better 400 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:17,720 Speaker 1: at doing email. They become faster and more efficient at 401 00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:21,679 Speaker 1: it when when they compress that activity into a couple 402 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: of time slots and they really focus on doing that activity. 403 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:29,120 Speaker 1: So for email, I and that's you know, that's where 404 00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,960 Speaker 1: a lot of little tasks come from and where a 405 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:33,360 Speaker 1: lot of the little things we need to do really 406 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: show up in our email. For those I have a 407 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:38,199 Speaker 1: couple of different spots throughout the day where I check email. 408 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 1: I have two in the morning that I really focus 409 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: more on looking for things that are kind of coming 410 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: in that are time sensitive that I might need to 411 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: respond to or pay attention to, and then have a 412 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: bigger block of time for email in the afternoon where 413 00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,119 Speaker 1: I'm really processing as much email as I can, so 414 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:57,040 Speaker 1: I'm kind of getting through as many messages as I 415 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,480 Speaker 1: can that in that chunk of time. So first doing 416 00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,159 Speaker 1: that sort of t and then getting into sort of 417 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,879 Speaker 1: the batch processing or the bulk processing for that email. 418 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 1: When it comes to other little things, I keep track 419 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:10,960 Speaker 1: of them on a list. So I use something called 420 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: a might do list, which is which is exactly what 421 00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,199 Speaker 1: it sounds like. Instead of a to do list, it's 422 00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: a list of things that I might do. And it 423 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: might sound like a silly distinction, and perhaps it is silly, 424 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: but for me, it's an important perspective shift, because when 425 00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 1: you put something on a to do list, you are 426 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,479 Speaker 1: both making a record of it and committing your future 427 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: self to do it. 428 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:36,880 Speaker 3: And then. 429 00:22:38,080 --> 00:22:39,800 Speaker 1: When we use a to do list, as I did 430 00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 1: for many, many years, and in fact I even designed 431 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,159 Speaker 1: a couple of custom to do list apps, when you 432 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: do this, then when you're working directly off the list, 433 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 1: you're thinking, well, I put it on the list, it 434 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 1: must be important. I've got to get it done. And 435 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:56,240 Speaker 1: so you tend to be myopically focused on these tiny 436 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:57,879 Speaker 1: little things on the to do list instead of the 437 00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: big picture items that matter. So I use a might 438 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:05,119 Speaker 1: do list, and I use this same tactic of batch 439 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: processing for little stuff that pops in on there. So 440 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 1: I'll have an admin block that's, you know, part of 441 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,840 Speaker 1: that's the same time of day as my email processing time. 442 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 1: Every once in a while, when I feel this little 443 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: stuff kind of piling up, I'll do a full admin day, 444 00:23:19,960 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: or I will sometimes make I if I look on 445 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,720 Speaker 1: my phone and I look back at my highlights over 446 00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: the last few days, I had a day that where 447 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,000 Speaker 1: my highlight was just to catch up, you know, So 448 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:33,479 Speaker 1: that was it, like that was the thing that felt 449 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:35,720 Speaker 1: like it really needed my attention was to kind of 450 00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: go through this list of all this little stuff and 451 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 1: catch up on it. So that's sort of how I 452 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:44,159 Speaker 1: manage those things. But again, I think the important takeaway 453 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 1: is this idea of compartmentalization, which is a long complicated word, 454 00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: but it's really a it's really a fancy way of 455 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 1: saying to do one thing, to focus on doing it well, 456 00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: and then when you're done with it, to move on. 457 00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: To put all those little bits into a box so 458 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: that you can get them done when you've got to 459 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: get them done, but you don't let them seep and 460 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: fill every single minute and hour of your day. 461 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 2: That's nice, and I'm kind of I'm almost encouraged to 462 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: hear that catching up on stuff can be a highlight. 463 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 2: I maybe feel in my own world like when I 464 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 2: think about, you know, what's going to be my highlight 465 00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,200 Speaker 2: for the day, that that doesn't justify itself as being 466 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:30,320 Speaker 2: a highlight. It's almost like saying crumbs or a meal. 467 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: But that's kind of encouraging to hear that you think 468 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 2: about it that way. 469 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 1: Well, the highlight doesn't have to be this big, earth moving, 470 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: life changing activity. It's simply the thing that you want 471 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,200 Speaker 1: to bring your best energy to. So it's the thing 472 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: that for that day. When you get to the end 473 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:48,919 Speaker 1: of the day and you look back, what are you 474 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,600 Speaker 1: going to feel really good about? You know, are you 475 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 1: gonna some days you're going to feel great that you 476 00:24:52,960 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: caught up? You know, you've got this big pile of 477 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: things that sort of you know, it's forming. There's this 478 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:01,119 Speaker 1: concept that researchers talk about called a tension residue, you know, 479 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:03,920 Speaker 1: sort of anytime you pay attention to something but you 480 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:06,679 Speaker 1: don't take care of it, you don't finish whatever that 481 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,280 Speaker 1: task is, it builds a little bit of mental residue. 482 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:11,439 Speaker 1: And at some point, when you've built up enough of 483 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: that attention residue, you have to go back and you 484 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: have to clear it away. And so sometimes catching up 485 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 1: is totally the best use of your time. 486 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,639 Speaker 2: I want to come back to the phone which you mentioned, 487 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,919 Speaker 2: the distraction free phone, which was a concept that I 488 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,679 Speaker 2: loved and I created in my own phone, which is 489 00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,080 Speaker 2: now very boring. I saw that you recently wrote about 490 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: this idea of the pro human smart phone. 491 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:38,479 Speaker 3: Can you describe what that is? 492 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:43,240 Speaker 1: Sure? And this is really attached to my philosophy about 493 00:25:43,240 --> 00:25:46,880 Speaker 1: technology use in general, which is that a distraction free 494 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:52,359 Speaker 1: phone to me is not boring because we've taken this 495 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: amazing piece of technology and instead of making it a 496 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:00,880 Speaker 1: delivery mechanism for all sorts of little pieces of information 497 00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: that we don't really care about, you know, and that sometimes, 498 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,360 Speaker 1: you know, we feel even annoyed by, you know, we say, 499 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,000 Speaker 1: why did all these things that I installed on my 500 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: phone give me all this information I don't care about? 501 00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: Right? 502 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:16,879 Speaker 1: But we can also use our smartphones as tools to 503 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: do all the things that we do care about. And 504 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: the reason I talk about a pro human smartphone is 505 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,439 Speaker 1: that one of the things that we care most about 506 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,359 Speaker 1: as humans is other people. We care about connecting with 507 00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,080 Speaker 1: other people, the people in our lives, the people that 508 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: we love, our friends, our family, our colleagues. And so 509 00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,800 Speaker 1: what I like to do is remove anything from my 510 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: phone that distracts me or has me reacting to stuff 511 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,399 Speaker 1: that I don't care about, and instead of tune it 512 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,480 Speaker 1: to focusing on the things that I do care about, 513 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: and so interacting with other people is one of those things. 514 00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: So I might be a bit different than some other 515 00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:00,119 Speaker 1: folks who write about productivity or distraction or attention in 516 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:03,600 Speaker 1: the sense that I don't think that that we should 517 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,919 Speaker 1: block text messages or chat messages or other things like 518 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: that from our phone. But instead, I think that we 519 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:15,640 Speaker 1: should use those as an opportunity to convert that energy, 520 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: that sort of impulse that somebody used to reach out 521 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: to us, and we should convert it into a more 522 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:26,399 Speaker 1: genuine and meaningful form of human connection. So this is 523 00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: a little trick that I call social jiu jitsu. And 524 00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:34,200 Speaker 1: I must admit that I have never practiced jiu jitsu. 525 00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:36,919 Speaker 1: I think I might be too awkward for any of 526 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 1: the martial arts, actually, but the idea, as I understand it, 527 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:42,639 Speaker 1: with jiu jitsu, part of the idea is to is 528 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:46,199 Speaker 1: to internalize and redirect your opponent's energy to use it 529 00:27:46,240 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: against them. And so I do this in a social way. 530 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:50,960 Speaker 1: Not you know, I don't use it against my friends. 531 00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: But if somebody you know sends me a text about something, 532 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:56,040 Speaker 1: and that's a person that gives me energy, that's a 533 00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:57,880 Speaker 1: person I care about, a person I want to spend 534 00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,119 Speaker 1: time with. I don't just reply to the text and 535 00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,480 Speaker 1: say you know, thanks or alol or whatever. 536 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:04,000 Speaker 2: You know. 537 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,120 Speaker 1: I try to convert that into something that's a bit 538 00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:07,879 Speaker 1: more real. So I try to say, hey, it's been 539 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: a while since we caught up. Do you have time 540 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,240 Speaker 1: for a phone call or why I'd love to hear 541 00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:15,240 Speaker 1: more about it, you have time for a FaceTime later 542 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 1: or ideally, you know, make plans to see that person 543 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,119 Speaker 1: face to face. And so that's one of the ways 544 00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:25,280 Speaker 1: that I try to make my use of technology much 545 00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: more oriented around the things that I care about, in particular, 546 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: spending quality time with the people that I care about. 547 00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:34,520 Speaker 3: I think that's really cool. 548 00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:38,479 Speaker 2: It's almost like upgrading the communication to the next level. 549 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, I really like that. And so I'm. 550 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 2: Wondering, you know what, like if I saw you lining 551 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: up for a coffee or you know, lining up, you know, 552 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: to go through security at the airport. I feel like 553 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: most people these days are on their phone, stuck in 554 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,560 Speaker 2: an infinity pool. What would I see you doing? Would 555 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 2: you just be gazing around? Would you be on the 556 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: phone talking to someone who texted you, like, well, how 557 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 2: are you using that that kind of waiting time or 558 00:29:06,320 --> 00:29:08,440 Speaker 2: you know, dead time, perhaps as some people would refer 559 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 2: to it as. 560 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,440 Speaker 1: Well, I might be looking around like a weirdo. There's 561 00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: a there's a good chance and that's what I would 562 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,040 Speaker 1: be doing. I would there's a good chance that I 563 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:19,680 Speaker 1: would be reading. So, you know, again back to this 564 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: idea of structuring our technology around the things that that 565 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,240 Speaker 1: we care about, the things that kind of you know, 566 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: I like to think about technologies that give us superpowers, 567 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 1: and to me, one of those things is being able 568 00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,520 Speaker 1: to download an entire book in like five seconds onto 569 00:29:35,600 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: the Kindle app. You know, a lot of times when 570 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: I'm waiting in line, I'll be reading a few pages 571 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,680 Speaker 1: in a book. And my sort of litmus test is 572 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,920 Speaker 1: when I'm done doing it, do I feel bad? And 573 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,960 Speaker 1: I never feel bad. I always feel great because I 574 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 1: was reading a book. Whereas if I spent those five minutes, 575 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,479 Speaker 1: you know, refreshing Twitter or checking the stock market updates 576 00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:56,880 Speaker 1: or something like that, there's a chance I'm going to 577 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,440 Speaker 1: feel that sort of icky sense of regret and kind 578 00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:02,240 Speaker 1: of like, oh what was I What was I doing 579 00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:03,840 Speaker 1: for the last ten minutes? You know, what a waste 580 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: of time? So sometimes I read, but I try not 581 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: to fill every space. I try to leave some some 582 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: moments of quiet and calm. And I don't mean quiet. 583 00:30:15,840 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 1: I don't mean that in a literal way, because you know, 584 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: standing in line at an airport security or our coffee 585 00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,200 Speaker 1: shop is noisy, certainly, But I try to leave mental 586 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:32,720 Speaker 1: space because I think there's a huge value in passive thought. 587 00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: And I think that we need space to practice passive 588 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: thought because it allows us to solve problems, it allows 589 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:44,680 Speaker 1: us to generate ideas. But I think that it's it's 590 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,920 Speaker 1: one of the few times when we are able to 591 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:53,600 Speaker 1: allow our feelings and our values to really emerge when 592 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: we're not thinking through things in a structured way, but 593 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,200 Speaker 1: when we're able to really not think at all, almost 594 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,880 Speaker 1: in a meditative way, and those are the moments where 595 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,240 Speaker 1: we may realize what we want to do or what's 596 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: important to us, or we may have an insight or 597 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,239 Speaker 1: a bit of clarity on a decision that we've been 598 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:18,680 Speaker 1: wrestling with. And those things can happen on small scales, 599 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,719 Speaker 1: that can happen in a couple of minutes when you're 600 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 1: waiting in line or waiting in a in a lobby 601 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,800 Speaker 1: in an office or something like that, and they happen 602 00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:31,880 Speaker 1: even more powerfully at large scale. So it's it's one 603 00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: of the reasons why I'm such a fan of extended travel, 604 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:40,280 Speaker 1: of you know, going for a walk outside without my phone, 605 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:45,720 Speaker 1: without headphones, intentionally creating those spaces for passive thought, not 606 00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: just for the you know, sort of ideation and problem 607 00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 1: solving benefits, which which we can still tie back to 608 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: kind of a productivity mindset, but really for those emergent 609 00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: moments of identifying value use and getting clarity on what's 610 00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:03,160 Speaker 1: important to us. 611 00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,360 Speaker 2: I really like that I read that you used to 612 00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:10,120 Speaker 2: walk to work when you worked at Google Ventures, and 613 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 2: that you still incorporate walking into your life. Do you 614 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,800 Speaker 2: have almost like daily rituals to make sure that you 615 00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 2: are building in that time of metaphorical quietness? 616 00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:27,200 Speaker 1: Sometimes so I have certain habits, so certain things that 617 00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: I either have intentionally or unintentionally crafted as habits that 618 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,600 Speaker 1: just sort of happen automatically. That's a great thing about habits, 619 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,200 Speaker 1: assuming that they are in fact good habits. For things 620 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: where I don't necessarily have a habit, I use that 621 00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:44,440 Speaker 1: strategy of scheduling my day to make sure that they happen, 622 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,360 Speaker 1: So that tactic of designing my day and these days 623 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:52,280 Speaker 1: walking is a good example of that. So, as you said, 624 00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:53,800 Speaker 1: I used to walk to work when I lived in 625 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,160 Speaker 1: San Francisco, and it was really easy to have a 626 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 1: habit around that because I did it at the same 627 00:32:58,080 --> 00:33:00,960 Speaker 1: time every day, the weather was all the same, Like 628 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,760 Speaker 1: I knew I could always do it. There was very 629 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 1: very few days when I couldn't, when that habit wouldn't work. 630 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,360 Speaker 1: It's much more difficult for me now because I work 631 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: for myself. I usually work at home, I sometimes go 632 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,280 Speaker 1: to a co working office. I travel a lot to 633 00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: speak and to teach workshops, so those things disrupt my habit. 634 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: But walking and exercise in general is still really important 635 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: to me. So instead, what I do is I schedule 636 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: it in advance. So when I'm planning out my day 637 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: or my week, I make sure that I schedule those 638 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,280 Speaker 1: things in I actually use this is a newer tactic, 639 00:33:33,320 --> 00:33:35,000 Speaker 1: one that's not in the book, but I actually use 640 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:39,160 Speaker 1: a calendar template, and so I have a separate calendar 641 00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:42,240 Speaker 1: inside of Google Calendar, so it's not my primary personal calendar. 642 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:44,960 Speaker 1: It's a separate calendar that is the template of my 643 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:47,480 Speaker 1: ideal day, so it has all the building blocks in 644 00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:49,560 Speaker 1: so it has ideally when do I wake up, when 645 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: do I eat, when are my working blocks to focus 646 00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:55,800 Speaker 1: on my highlight, when do I exercise? All those things, 647 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,920 Speaker 1: And that's the strategy that I use. In fact, as 648 00:33:58,960 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: soon as we we finished this interview, I scheduled in 649 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 1: time to go walk to the sort of next neighborhood 650 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 1: over I need to run an errand over there, and 651 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: kind of plan that into my day, the time to 652 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:15,399 Speaker 1: do a thing I need to do anyway, run this errand, 653 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,360 Speaker 1: but do it in a way that also gets my 654 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 1: body moving and creates a little bit of space, mental 655 00:34:20,160 --> 00:34:22,440 Speaker 1: space where I can do some of the passive thinking 656 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 1: and that reflection. 657 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:24,840 Speaker 3: That's interesting. 658 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,000 Speaker 2: I want to delve more into the idea of a 659 00:34:27,040 --> 00:34:30,480 Speaker 2: calendar template and more specifically what your ideal day looks like. 660 00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:33,640 Speaker 2: And what I really like actually is whenever I start 661 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:36,640 Speaker 2: these interviews, I'll always ask my guest, as I did 662 00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 2: for you jay Z, do you have a hard stop 663 00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 2: And he said. 664 00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:40,440 Speaker 3: Yes on the hour. 665 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,680 Speaker 2: And what's interesting is that, well, you don't really like 666 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,760 Speaker 2: You're just going on a walk to do an errand, 667 00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 2: And most people would be like, ah, yeah, you know, 668 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:53,120 Speaker 2: round about on the hour, but you're like, no on 669 00:34:53,200 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: the hour, and I really like that that you know, 670 00:34:55,680 --> 00:35:00,359 Speaker 2: there's obviously, you know, there's discipline, but there's also seriousness around. Well, 671 00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing at this time. So can 672 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 2: you take me through what an ideal day looks like 673 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,880 Speaker 2: for you in this calendar template? 674 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,359 Speaker 1: Sure? Yeah? I Well, and at first I should also say, 675 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:15,640 Speaker 1: in my defense, this errand that I have to run. 676 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,400 Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be meeting somebody to take care of 677 00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,479 Speaker 1: some paperwork at the bank. So I wasn't I wasn't 678 00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,439 Speaker 1: being entirely ridiculous when I told you that I had 679 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: to go. 680 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 3: Even if you were, I think that's lovely. 681 00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, good, good. 682 00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 683 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 1: So I've I've I've got my computer in front of me, 684 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,080 Speaker 1: and I just pulled up my calendar template so I 685 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,399 Speaker 1: could I can literally tell you what's on it. But 686 00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:41,240 Speaker 1: probably more interesting is to give you the big building blocks, 687 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:47,400 Speaker 1: and the essential building blocks for me are are really 688 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:51,520 Speaker 1: my morning. So I don't have a really extreme morning routine. 689 00:35:51,560 --> 00:35:53,800 Speaker 1: I don't wake up exceptionally early. I don't have a 690 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: crazy ritual of things that I go through. But there's 691 00:35:56,719 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: a couple of things that are really important to me. 692 00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,160 Speaker 1: It's really important to wake up early ish, and for me, 693 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:06,080 Speaker 1: that's that's around six thirty six to six thirty am. 694 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,560 Speaker 1: It's important that I make coffee and have something to drink, 695 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:13,960 Speaker 1: and have a few minutes to look out the window 696 00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: before I grab my phone or open up my computer. 697 00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 1: My wife and I we we recently moved into a 698 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,799 Speaker 1: new home, and when we moved, we set up a 699 00:36:23,000 --> 00:36:25,920 Speaker 1: charging cabinet. So we have a cabinet out in our 700 00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: dining room that all of our devices go into at night. 701 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:30,480 Speaker 1: So we plug in our computers, we plug in our 702 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:35,120 Speaker 1: our phones, we plug in our our headphones, you know, 703 00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:37,520 Speaker 1: because now you have to charge your headphones. That's a 704 00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,319 Speaker 1: new thing. But so we plug all that stuff in 705 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:42,960 Speaker 1: and so it creates this really nice barrier where where 706 00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: in the morning, it's not right there on my bedside table. 707 00:36:46,560 --> 00:36:48,120 Speaker 1: It's not the first thing that I grab. I have 708 00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: to make an intentional decision say okay, now I'm I'm 709 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: ready to begin the sort of the technology focused part 710 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,759 Speaker 1: of my day. So that's one important thing. And then 711 00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:03,719 Speaker 1: as a way of helping myself avoid getting sucked into 712 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,279 Speaker 1: reactive mode in addition to all the ways that I've 713 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,240 Speaker 1: created barriers around distraction, I also I don't just play defense. 714 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:17,440 Speaker 1: I play offense by usually working on my highlight first 715 00:37:17,440 --> 00:37:19,680 Speaker 1: thing in the morning and so looking at my calendar 716 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,799 Speaker 1: template from from seven to eight thirty am, I have 717 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,879 Speaker 1: a block that's called work at home, and so I've 718 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,480 Speaker 1: had had coffee, you know, I've had some waters, you know, 719 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: had a moment to sort of contemplate and think, and 720 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 1: then I literally sit down and start working on whatever 721 00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,680 Speaker 1: my highlight is for that day, whatever that thing is 722 00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,360 Speaker 1: that I really want to bring my best attention to, 723 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: assuming that it's that it's a sort of a work 724 00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: related highlight, assuming it's not something like going to a 725 00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:51,399 Speaker 1: baseball game or meeting up with friends or whatever, which 726 00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:54,719 Speaker 1: is you know, often a highlight that takes place later 727 00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:58,400 Speaker 1: in the day. And then I make sure to schedule 728 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,239 Speaker 1: in time for my meals because I have found that 729 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,840 Speaker 1: when I don't do that, I have a tendency to 730 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,400 Speaker 1: get too into the zone when I'm doing focused work, 731 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:11,759 Speaker 1: and then I wait too long, and then I sort 732 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:14,160 Speaker 1: of I sort of crash and burn where I'm sort 733 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:16,320 Speaker 1: of like I waited too long to eat or to 734 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,840 Speaker 1: to you know, shower, to do whatever kind of basic 735 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: self care things need to happen, and then it's harder 736 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:25,680 Speaker 1: to come back from that. But if I if I 737 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: schedule in okay, take a break and have something to 738 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: eat and look out the window, that's going to that's 739 00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,719 Speaker 1: going to keep me me balanced. And then in the afternoon, 740 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:39,520 Speaker 1: that's really when I focus on administrative work. So I 741 00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,960 Speaker 1: have a couple of meeting slots in the afternoon and 742 00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:44,040 Speaker 1: those are for the most part, those are the only 743 00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: times that I schedule meetings. So I have I use 744 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,960 Speaker 1: calendarly for a you know, scheduling tool, and I have 745 00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: meeting slots in the afternoon that people can book. And 746 00:38:53,719 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: this is everything from talking to perspective clients, to organizing events, 747 00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,279 Speaker 1: to checking in with people that I'm collaborating with on 748 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,760 Speaker 1: various projects. So I do that stuff in the afternoon. 749 00:39:06,800 --> 00:39:10,279 Speaker 1: I have my admin and an email block in the 750 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,200 Speaker 1: afternoon that is from three thirty to four point thirty 751 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,560 Speaker 1: actually really from three thirty five, I should say, by 752 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: default on my calendar. Around five PM is when I 753 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:26,120 Speaker 1: do some sort of exercise activities walking, yoga or high 754 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,920 Speaker 1: intensity workout every day, and then evening is really for 755 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:34,840 Speaker 1: me and for my wife and for our friends people 756 00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 1: that we care about. So that's I really love making 757 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,000 Speaker 1: dinner at home because it's an activity that combines a 758 00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: bunch of great benefits. It tends to be healthier and 759 00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,319 Speaker 1: more affordable than going to restaurants. It requires me to 760 00:39:49,360 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: step away from the computer, to close devices down, to 761 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:55,360 Speaker 1: do something with my hands. And I also really like 762 00:39:55,440 --> 00:39:58,000 Speaker 1: how it kind of signifies the transition from daytime to 763 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,560 Speaker 1: night time. I am not a natural morning person. I 764 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,680 Speaker 1: have had to sort of structure my environment to help 765 00:40:06,719 --> 00:40:08,560 Speaker 1: me wake up in the morning, and so one of 766 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,239 Speaker 1: the things that I need to do in order to 767 00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,279 Speaker 1: wake up at a reasonably early hour is to go 768 00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: to bed at an early hour and having sort of 769 00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:21,120 Speaker 1: a nighttime routine that tells my body, Okay, it's time 770 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: to slow down, it's time to lower the lights, it's 771 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,520 Speaker 1: time to focus more on doing things that are kind 772 00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:31,799 Speaker 1: of inwardly focused. That helped me transition into that next 773 00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:33,200 Speaker 1: part of the day when we're going to be sleeping. 774 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,239 Speaker 1: Cooking dinner at home really supports that, and so that's 775 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:39,360 Speaker 1: kind of the last significant chunk of my day is 776 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:44,239 Speaker 1: sort of being focused on home and on my relationship 777 00:40:44,239 --> 00:40:47,319 Speaker 1: with my wife and my friendships with other people I 778 00:40:47,360 --> 00:40:47,800 Speaker 1: care about. 779 00:40:48,719 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 2: That's great, And what percentage of your days would roughly 780 00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 2: resemble that ideal day that you've just described. 781 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 1: When I'm not traveling, So when I'm at home, pretty 782 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: much every weekday fits that general outline. There's you know, 783 00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:10,560 Speaker 1: there's always exceptions here and there, but they're they're pretty rare. 784 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:14,200 Speaker 1: One thing that I continue to struggle with is what 785 00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: to do when I'm traveling. And somebody introduced me to 786 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,959 Speaker 1: the concept of a home game and an away game. 787 00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,320 Speaker 1: So this is the idea that you have a certain 788 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: routine and a certain template from when you're at home, 789 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: and then a different one for when you're traveling, and 790 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: maybe the one when you're traveling is a bit more flexible, 791 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:35,920 Speaker 1: and it's really it's optimized for resiliency and sort of 792 00:41:35,920 --> 00:41:39,360 Speaker 1: practicality and instead of being kind of ideal or perfect. 793 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: And I will admit that I have not I've not 794 00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:43,799 Speaker 1: developed that yet. So I'm not at the point where 795 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 1: I have a strong away game. And I've been doing 796 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 1: a lot more traveling in just the past twelve months 797 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,040 Speaker 1: or so, and so it's something that I that I 798 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,480 Speaker 1: need to work on. But when I'm at home, I 799 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:00,920 Speaker 1: would say pretty much every weekday looks like the template 800 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:01,800 Speaker 1: that I just described. 801 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,680 Speaker 2: That's brilliant, And I like the concept of a home 802 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:07,520 Speaker 2: versus an away game. I travel a lot for work 803 00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,080 Speaker 2: as well, probably once a week or once a fortnight. 804 00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:14,719 Speaker 2: And yeah, you've got me thinking around hm, because I've 805 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,960 Speaker 2: got like a similar approach. 806 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:19,239 Speaker 3: In designing my ideal day. 807 00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,960 Speaker 2: And it's not dissimilar to what you've described, but travel 808 00:42:23,320 --> 00:42:27,640 Speaker 2: MUCKs everything up. And like, have you started developing that 809 00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:30,760 Speaker 2: away game routine and are there kind of some building 810 00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:33,759 Speaker 2: blocks that you've put in place or some you know, 811 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,920 Speaker 2: sort of hacks or strategies that you're finding really helpful 812 00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:38,480 Speaker 2: at the moment. 813 00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: One of the things that has become clearer with my 814 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:47,239 Speaker 1: away game is to prioritize sleep above all else. So 815 00:42:48,200 --> 00:42:51,080 Speaker 1: that means that if I can sleep for an hour 816 00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,160 Speaker 1: on the plane or two hours on the plane, I 817 00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,440 Speaker 1: will do that. That means that if I need to 818 00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 1: wake up at you know, whatever time I need to 819 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:00,919 Speaker 1: wake up the next morning and that time zone, I'm 820 00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,399 Speaker 1: going to do everything that I can in terms of 821 00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:09,160 Speaker 1: my habits and what I'm eating and drinking and my 822 00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,960 Speaker 1: environment to get myself to sleep a solid eight to 823 00:43:13,040 --> 00:43:15,640 Speaker 1: nine hours before that time when I need to wake up. 824 00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:20,920 Speaker 1: I Also another thing that's becoming clear is is around 825 00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:24,439 Speaker 1: expectations for what else I can do with my time 826 00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,719 Speaker 1: while I'm traveling. And I used to get very frustrated 827 00:43:27,760 --> 00:43:31,080 Speaker 1: with myself because I couldn't. I couldn't get things done 828 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,719 Speaker 1: when I was traveling. You know, I would say, I 829 00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: would look at my calendar and I'd say, well, I'm 830 00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:37,279 Speaker 1: going to be at the hotel for three hours in 831 00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,200 Speaker 1: the morning. I can get this thing done. But I 832 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,719 Speaker 1: never I never would, you know, it would never. I 833 00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:44,880 Speaker 1: would never get as much done as I thought I should. 834 00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,520 Speaker 1: And so I'm learning that I need to have different 835 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:51,319 Speaker 1: kinds of expectations, and I'm actually finding a lot of 836 00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,400 Speaker 1: satisfaction and using those travel days as catch up days, 837 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,040 Speaker 1: as admin days, because it's easy for me to knock 838 00:43:57,080 --> 00:43:59,360 Speaker 1: off a bunch of little things when I'm you know, 839 00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:03,200 Speaker 1: in airports and airplanes and riding in taxis and have 840 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,120 Speaker 1: those those spare hours here and there at the hotel 841 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: room or whatever. So I'm trying to squeeze those things 842 00:44:08,800 --> 00:44:11,160 Speaker 1: in instead, because those are things that need to happen anyway. 843 00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:14,360 Speaker 1: And I'm still going to be happy that they did. 844 00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:18,000 Speaker 1: But I think for me, one of the biggest lessons 845 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:22,360 Speaker 1: has been that if I'm traveling, it's because I'm doing 846 00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:26,120 Speaker 1: something that really needs to be my focus. You know, 847 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,839 Speaker 1: the travel and the thing that I'm doing in that 848 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,920 Speaker 1: city or whatever that's not that shouldn't be secondary to 849 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: anything else. That should be the main thing. And so 850 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,080 Speaker 1: it kind of doesn't matter what else I do. Everything, 851 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:40,600 Speaker 1: all of my routines and all my habits while I'm 852 00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:44,440 Speaker 1: traveling should really be in support of that talk, that meeting, 853 00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:48,000 Speaker 1: that fireside chat, that workshop that I'm teaching. And so 854 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:51,279 Speaker 1: that's the mindset that I am that I'm trying to take. 855 00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:56,359 Speaker 1: But I'm far from having a routine for travel that's 856 00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:00,359 Speaker 1: that's reliable. Although I'm I'm trying to take my own 857 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: advice and take an experimental mindset and reflect every time 858 00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: I do travel and try to make it a little 859 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: bit better with each trip. 860 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:08,319 Speaker 2: Ah. 861 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,840 Speaker 3: I think that's such useful advice. 862 00:45:09,920 --> 00:45:13,200 Speaker 2: Like personally, for me, I feel like I get over 863 00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 2: ambitious when I travel because I'm like, oh, I'm going 864 00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,919 Speaker 2: to have all this uninterrupted time in my hotel room. 865 00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:21,920 Speaker 2: Imagine all the deep work that I can do, and 866 00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 2: then just the disappointment when it doesn't quite pan out 867 00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:29,120 Speaker 2: as you hope because things kind of pop up in 868 00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:31,400 Speaker 2: the travel schedule. So I do like the idea of, 869 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:33,879 Speaker 2: you know, actually just thinking, well, I'll just catch up, 870 00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:37,399 Speaker 2: because there's so many short snippets of time when you're 871 00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:39,800 Speaker 2: traveling where you can do like little bits of work. 872 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,239 Speaker 2: So I personally find that very useful. I have a 873 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 2: couple of other questions in the remaining few minutes that 874 00:45:45,920 --> 00:45:49,880 Speaker 2: we've got. You mentioned Calendly, which you use for scheduling meetings, 875 00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 2: which is fantastic software. We use that a lot of Inventium. 876 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 2: What are your other at the moment favorite kind of 877 00:45:56,600 --> 00:46:00,880 Speaker 2: go to apps or software that just help make getting 878 00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,240 Speaker 2: things done during the workday or in your home life easier. 879 00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: Well, I have a bit of an odd perspective on that, 880 00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: because I have a policy of avoiding fancy tools whenever possible. 881 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,560 Speaker 1: And my fancy tool I mean any piece of software 882 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,120 Speaker 1: or it could be a physical tool, device, a gadget, 883 00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:27,879 Speaker 1: whatever that is very narrowly optimized and designed for sort 884 00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:34,240 Speaker 1: of a niche use. And the reason I developed this 885 00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:38,280 Speaker 1: this philosophy is that I think oftentimes, fancy tools are 886 00:46:38,880 --> 00:46:42,200 Speaker 1: yet another distraction. They are a way for us to 887 00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:47,040 Speaker 1: procrastinate tinkering with you know, setting everything up perfectly in 888 00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:49,680 Speaker 1: the project management tool or the to do list, or 889 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 1: you know, getting that new gadget is set up and 890 00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 1: installing all the apps and whatever, instead of focusing on 891 00:46:57,760 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: the things that really matter to us, the things that 892 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:03,600 Speaker 1: we want to be spending our time on. So whenever possible, 893 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:09,040 Speaker 1: I use I use really simple, really widely available tools. 894 00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:13,960 Speaker 1: I am, perhaps unsurprisingly, very very bought into the Google ecosystem. 895 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,200 Speaker 1: It did work there for several years, but that's not 896 00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:21,080 Speaker 1: really the main reason. I find that of the major 897 00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 1: tech companies, Google has a great track record for reliability 898 00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,080 Speaker 1: and for communicating when products are going to be shut 899 00:47:31,120 --> 00:47:32,799 Speaker 1: down and go away, and they have a they have 900 00:47:32,840 --> 00:47:36,920 Speaker 1: a great policy and really a whole team around data portability, 901 00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:39,600 Speaker 1: so if they do shut down a product, you'll be 902 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:41,279 Speaker 1: able to get your data and take it with you. 903 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,200 Speaker 1: And that's a big part of this anti fancy tools 904 00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,960 Speaker 1: philosophy is that you know, I've been through the ringer 905 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,400 Speaker 1: on on project management software and to do list apps 906 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:55,319 Speaker 1: shutting down, and then I spend a whole weekend or 907 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,120 Speaker 1: whatever getting transitioned to the new tool. It's it's kind 908 00:47:59,120 --> 00:48:02,360 Speaker 1: of ridiculous that that we do that. You know, supposedly 909 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,759 Speaker 1: we're trying to make better use of our time, but 910 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:07,320 Speaker 1: then we'll give up an afternoon or a day to 911 00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,759 Speaker 1: to you know, this work about work, this administrative work. 912 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:15,040 Speaker 1: So I use I use Google Calendar very heavily. That's 913 00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,880 Speaker 1: kind of my That's probably the main tool, as you know, 914 00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 1: if I could only keep one piece of software, would 915 00:48:21,239 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: probably be Google Calendar. I use Google Keep, which is 916 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:28,200 Speaker 1: Google's notes app, and it's it's ultra simple. It's just 917 00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:30,799 Speaker 1: you know, text flat text notes. So I use that 918 00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:34,080 Speaker 1: for my might do list, and I keep notes with 919 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:38,200 Speaker 1: little lists of anything else that's going on. I use, 920 00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,399 Speaker 1: you know, little things like calendarly. I uh, I'm trying 921 00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:48,040 Speaker 1: to think what else we actually are in the process 922 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:52,479 Speaker 1: of developing and make time app which will allow you 923 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:55,960 Speaker 1: to watch and say, well, it does allow you to 924 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,240 Speaker 1: to write down today's highlight to schedule it on the calendar. 925 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,640 Speaker 1: It provides a built in timer that you can use 926 00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:05,200 Speaker 1: to focus on your highlight, and it has a little 927 00:49:05,239 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: reflection tool so at the end of the day it 928 00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:09,960 Speaker 1: will actually remind you to reflect on the day. So 929 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,080 Speaker 1: that's a that's a very very simple tool that that 930 00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:18,080 Speaker 1: we're beta testing now and has has helped me, you know, 931 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,560 Speaker 1: really strengthen this habit from this this framework that I 932 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:23,640 Speaker 1: helped to create. But some of the other other things 933 00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:25,040 Speaker 1: that I use a lot are those things that really 934 00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:27,399 Speaker 1: feel feel like they give me superpowers, like I'm living 935 00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: in the future. So Amazon, Kindle app and uh and Sonos, 936 00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:35,520 Speaker 1: you know, being able to control the music that's playing 937 00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 1: in my house, and and even something as simple as 938 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:40,600 Speaker 1: as Uber. You know, you you open an app and 939 00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 1: press a button and a car pulls up. You know, 940 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,480 Speaker 1: it's pretty it's pretty magical futuristic stuff when you think 941 00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,560 Speaker 1: about it. And so those are the types of apps 942 00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:51,759 Speaker 1: that I like to use. But for being a technology 943 00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:55,520 Speaker 1: enthusiast and being somebody who's generally optimistic about technology, I 944 00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:58,719 Speaker 1: suppose I'm I'm actually a fairly fairly light user of 945 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:00,960 Speaker 1: the latest and greatest tech products. 946 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,520 Speaker 3: I like it. It's quite a refreshing answer. 947 00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,920 Speaker 2: And look, the final question I have is where people 948 00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:10,000 Speaker 2: can consume more of your work. And I will start 949 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,200 Speaker 2: by saying, if you have not read make time and 950 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:18,360 Speaker 2: also sprint, they are absolutely brilliant books, and you've kindly 951 00:50:18,400 --> 00:50:20,959 Speaker 2: also given me access to the Highlight course, which I'm 952 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 2: so excited to do. So I'm very much encouraging listeners 953 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,080 Speaker 2: to check all those things out, which are linked. 954 00:50:28,880 --> 00:50:29,759 Speaker 3: To in the show notes. 955 00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:33,080 Speaker 2: But are there any other ways, jay Z, that people 956 00:50:33,160 --> 00:50:34,840 Speaker 2: can consume more of what you're doing. 957 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:37,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, thank you for mentioning both of those things. 958 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:40,600 Speaker 1: And you can find the book and the course and 959 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:45,120 Speaker 1: lots of other resources, tools and content at make time 960 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:50,080 Speaker 1: dot blog. That's the main website for everything make time related. 961 00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:54,000 Speaker 1: And although I don't have Twitter or LinkedIn install on 962 00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,200 Speaker 1: my phone and I only check them once a day, 963 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,880 Speaker 1: I do enjoy hearing from people on those platforms, so 964 00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:03,680 Speaker 1: you can find me on Twitter at jazzer Jzer and 965 00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,200 Speaker 1: I'm the only John Zaratski on LinkedIn, so you can 966 00:51:06,239 --> 00:51:08,160 Speaker 1: look me up there. And I would love to hear 967 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,040 Speaker 1: what you think about these ideas, and I would love 968 00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:13,720 Speaker 1: to hear whether you're experimenting with them in your own life. 969 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:16,480 Speaker 2: Awesome, jay Z, it's been so fun talking to you. 970 00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:19,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for giving me an hour of 971 00:51:19,239 --> 00:51:19,720 Speaker 2: your time. 972 00:51:20,239 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 1: Oh my pleasure, Amantha. Thank you so much for having me. 973 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,320 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. If you are enjoying 974 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:31,880 Speaker 2: how I work, I would love it if you leave 975 00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,800 Speaker 2: a review wherever you're listening to this podcast. I read 976 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,480 Speaker 2: every single review, and most of them, I think go 977 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:43,520 Speaker 2: to Apple Podcasts, and they just bring such a big 978 00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,720 Speaker 2: smile to my face. It's a great way of giving 979 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:52,080 Speaker 2: feedback on this project that I've been doing now for 980 00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 2: nearly two years. 981 00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:53,960 Speaker 3: So thank you so much. 982 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,080 Speaker 2: If we have left a review, and if you plan 983 00:51:56,239 --> 00:51:59,680 Speaker 2: to leave one today, you are totally awesome. 984 00:52:00,360 --> 00:52:03,239 Speaker 3: And on that note, I will see you next time.