1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: So now you might recall last week we caught up 2 00:00:02,640 --> 00:00:05,519 Speaker 1: with Kath Hatcher from the Nursing and Midw're Free Federation 3 00:00:05,760 --> 00:00:08,639 Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. We knew that she was going 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:10,920 Speaker 1: to be traveling to Alice Springs to see how things 5 00:00:10,920 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: were going with our nursing staff in Central Australia. And 6 00:00:14,440 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: Cath joins me on the line right now. Good morning, Cath, 7 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,599 Speaker 1: Good morning Katie. Kath. I know that you were in 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: Alice last week. What did you see and what were 9 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: nurses telling you? 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,800 Speaker 2: Oh, it's just heartbreaking, Katie. The nurses are definitely saying, 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 2: you know, it's almost like a war zone. In the 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 2: emergency department, they have one hundred and thirty full time 13 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:44,919 Speaker 2: equivalents staff, just nurses and midwives down. They're trying to 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 2: get agencies and casual but it's not always forthcoming. And 15 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 2: they're really tired. They're totally well, they are totally exhausted, 16 00:00:55,760 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: They're not they haven't got any what would the premiere 17 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 2: of New Zealand would say, they haven't got any left 18 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: in the tank? 19 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: Oh, cav one hundred and thirty full time equivalent staff down. 20 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: Is that just in the hospital or is that across that. 21 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 2: Is no, that is just in the hospital, and then 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:21,639 Speaker 2: if you look at the clinics around Central Australia, there's 23 00:01:21,680 --> 00:01:26,039 Speaker 2: nearly another thirty full time equivalent about twenty eight I 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:31,600 Speaker 2: believe full time equivalent not there and they're filled with 25 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 2: the agencies at the moment, but they are paying a 26 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: mon astronomical amount per day of one hundred and one thousand, 27 00:01:39,959 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 2: five hundred dollars a day to work what so. 28 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 1: In those So just let me get this really clear 29 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 1: in my mind and really clear for our listeners. So 30 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:52,440 Speaker 1: with one hundred and thirty staff that they're down just 31 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:56,160 Speaker 1: in the hospital, those positions are then being filled with 32 00:01:56,320 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 1: agency nurses and they're getting paid how much a day? 33 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 2: Well, it's just in the clinics and remote remote are 34 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 2: nurses in the community within the hospital. Yeah, so the 35 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:18,080 Speaker 2: one hundred and thirty full time equivalent missing in the hospital, 36 00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 2: they are trying to fill them with agencies and casual staff. 37 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 2: Sometimes it's successful depending on where which ward you're looking at, 38 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:33,720 Speaker 2: but they're not. They haven't worked with full capacity for 39 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,840 Speaker 2: quite a number of years now and it's getting worse 40 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 2: the last six months. And they've only got the agreement 41 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: in the communities to pay at that higher rate until 42 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:53,200 Speaker 2: the end of February and then the communities nurses not 43 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: sure what they're going to do because potentially the agencies 44 00:02:57,960 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: might not come if they're not getting that extra money 45 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 2: per day well tas. 46 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: So obviously there is extreme staffing shortages. Is that because 47 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: of the violence and what we are seeing in Ourice 48 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,400 Speaker 1: Springs at the moment? 49 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,000 Speaker 2: Yes, that certainly has a lot to do with it, 50 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: but also, as we know through COVID a lot of 51 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 2: areas in Australia are in the same circumstances. They have 52 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: always you know, worked pretty short and then they've had 53 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 2: the COVID hit and the circumstances around COVID, they've had 54 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: huge workloads every day, not just you know it for 55 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 2: one month, but it's been continuous and a lot of 56 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: people have left the profession permanently, or they've left for 57 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: a good break, maybe twelve months to two year break 58 00:03:56,320 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: and they may be coming back or they may going 59 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: to other areas. So there's a very good deficit of 60 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: nurses and midwives around Australia and the violence and nature 61 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 2: that's happening in Alice Springs is certainly not happening, sorry, 62 00:04:14,880 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: not forthcoming in agencies or staff or even new staff 63 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,440 Speaker 2: that wish to commence their nursing degree and coming to 64 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: Alice Springs, they're choosing perhaps to go elsewhere. 65 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:33,839 Speaker 1: Which you can understand. Kas absolutely when you spoke to 66 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: the nurses last week in the hospital in Alice Springs, 67 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,760 Speaker 1: I mean, did they raise concerns about some of what 68 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: they are seeing in the hospital on a day to 69 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 1: day basis. 70 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:50,240 Speaker 2: Yes, certainly. The day to day aggression has always been there, 71 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: and that's always been a little bit and that's usually 72 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:58,960 Speaker 2: prompted by delays in their treatment because they've got a 73 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: huge workload, or the visitors are concerned for their loved one, 74 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 2: so there show their aggression for they love one too. 75 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:13,039 Speaker 2: Usually the nurses and doctors as well. But that has 76 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 2: certainly increased because the workload for all of the health 77 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 2: staff has increased. Their physiotherapists and all the other allied 78 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 2: health workers there got low numbers within the hospital, so 79 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:30,960 Speaker 2: it falls back on the nurses or the doctors to 80 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: do that extra care because the allied health staff aren't there, 81 00:05:36,320 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: so there's extra aggression. They're not getting their care in 82 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: a timely manner and everyone's getting upset, and that's fair 83 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 2: enough too, and I don't blame the patients for the 84 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 2: visitors to doing that, but they just have to be 85 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:58,000 Speaker 2: mindful that they have got a huge workload and they 86 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:03,560 Speaker 2: will give the care to the patients, but it's just 87 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:05,600 Speaker 2: unfortunate that it is happening. 88 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: Kats. Are the staff they're feeling safe? I know that 89 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,600 Speaker 1: last week you'd spoken to us about a nurse who 90 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: had been the victim of, you know, of an assault. 91 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:25,160 Speaker 1: Are the staff feeling safe. 92 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: During the day A bit of APPREHENSI see bussness within 93 00:06:28,760 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 2: going out of the hospital to their cars in the 94 00:06:31,839 --> 00:06:35,840 Speaker 2: car park, but more so in the evening and overnight 95 00:06:36,000 --> 00:06:38,480 Speaker 2: or first thing in the morning, so they're all traveling 96 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: in pairs or in groups. They have increased security at 97 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:48,640 Speaker 2: the hospital, but yes, there's always that apprehension of they 98 00:06:48,680 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: need to be aware of their surroundings and not to 99 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 2: go out alone to their car. 100 00:06:55,480 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 1: Tath. Have you ever seen that in any of the 101 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 1: other hospitals that you've sort of worked in, any of 102 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: the other health systems that you've worked in, where it's 103 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: reached a point where staff are having to do things 104 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 1: like that walk in pairs or walking groups to make 105 00:07:07,920 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 1: sure that they stay safe. 106 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 2: There's certainly been small components of that over the time 107 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: in all of the towns in the territory, but not 108 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 2: to the extent that it's happening in Alice Springs and 109 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: perhaps Catherine at the moment. 110 00:07:26,320 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: So Catherine as well, there's concerns there at this point. 111 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: Yes, we haven't had actually members come to us, but 112 00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 2: we know the increase in violence in and around Catherine 113 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,200 Speaker 2: has increased, and I'm sure that it won't be too 114 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 2: long before members come to us with situations that are 115 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 2: happening there unfortunately, cass Do you. 116 00:07:49,000 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 1: Feel as though the nurses in Central Australia, And I 117 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: know you've touched on Catherine too, but let's just look 118 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: at the nurses at the Alice Springs Hospital. Do they 119 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,440 Speaker 1: have the support that they need? I know that you 120 00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: said there is increased security at the hospital. Is that 121 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: enough at the moment. 122 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 2: Their managers are really good and they're feeling that love 123 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:19,080 Speaker 2: and support by their unit managers. They just not sure 124 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: about the executive level. They just need you know. Yes, 125 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 2: they're getting agencies and they're getting casuals and they're being 126 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,080 Speaker 2: paid a lot more than what they are, they're not 127 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:37,559 Speaker 2: always feeling that respect there, and they would like definitely 128 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:42,400 Speaker 2: more recruitment happening from the Department of Health in the 129 00:08:42,480 --> 00:08:46,079 Speaker 2: level that does all the Facebook advertising and the website 130 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 2: advertising to recruit from within the state, so within the 131 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:57,520 Speaker 2: territory and from interstate. They feel that that could be increased, 132 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 2: and they need to have in se tips to be 133 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,880 Speaker 2: able to retain the current staff because there are staff 134 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,840 Speaker 2: that are either on sick leave or on long service 135 00:09:07,920 --> 00:09:11,560 Speaker 2: leaves that are perhaps looking at not coming back to 136 00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 2: work in the territory. They're looking for other jobs within 137 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,240 Speaker 2: other states, and they are very tired, and they're very fatigued, 138 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,640 Speaker 2: and they, like I said, they just don't have that 139 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: energy to continue perhaps, but yeah, it's difficult. They definitely 140 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:36,240 Speaker 2: need to make some changes instantly, and the recruitment phases 141 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 2: in the hubs there, they need to, you know, put 142 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: if they're doing an interview and then by the managers 143 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: to get someone to recruit to say the emergency department 144 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:52,199 Speaker 2: or to the renal unit, then they need to get 145 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 2: that contract through quick and non wait another couple of months. 146 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: It sounds like they desperately need stuff. I mean a 147 00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: hundred thirty full time equivalent staff down at the Alice 148 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,440 Speaker 1: Springs Hospital. That is a huge number. Kath Hatcher, we 149 00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:08,640 Speaker 1: are going to have to wrap up just very quickly. 150 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,079 Speaker 1: I mean, what is your message really this morning when 151 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:15,440 Speaker 1: it comes to the nursing staff at the hospital in 152 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: Alice Springs. 153 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:21,280 Speaker 2: My heart goes out to the mall there in Alice Springs, 154 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: and we need to have some respect to the nurses 155 00:10:26,800 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 2: and doctors and all the Allied health workers that are 156 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,960 Speaker 2: working there. They're doing a fantastic job and we need 157 00:10:34,000 --> 00:10:38,280 Speaker 2: to up the advertisement to be able to recruit to 158 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 2: Alice Springs. Alice Springs is a very beautiful town and 159 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,800 Speaker 2: it's always had the best initiatives and incentives to move forward, 160 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 2: and it's just a shame that it's in such a 161 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 2: dire circumstances at the moment. 162 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:56,840 Speaker 1: Well, Kath Hatcher, we always appreciate your time. Thank you 163 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 1: very much for having a chat with us after coming 164 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 1: back from Alice Springs. 165 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 2: Oh, thank you very much, Katie and your listeners, thank you.