Speaker 1: Flex and Firms Flex and Frooms. This is the Flex
Speaker 1: and Frooms catch up podcast.
Speaker 2: It's Flex and Frooms on Kita. There was a period
Speaker 2: a few months ago, guys where I got really into
Speaker 2: the podcast Humman Lab.
Speaker 1: If you're listening, you're.
Speaker 2: A body hacker type person. Maybe you're a trading on
Speaker 2: the job with like elite muscles, you have to get
Speaker 2: up at five am, and maybe you do indulge in
Speaker 2: the ice breaks, sausage roll combo. I have had a
Speaker 2: sausage row for breakfast two times this week and it
Speaker 2: was elite New era. Yeah, I just really felt like it. Anyway,
Speaker 2: if you're into your body hacking era, you're probably across
Speaker 2: Human Lab. It's by a guy called Andrew Humeman. He's
Speaker 2: a professor at Stanford University in the neuro whatever the
Speaker 2: hell science stuff. He does a weekly podcast all about
Speaker 2: science and how to like body hack your life and
Speaker 2: all that jazz. He had one with a guy called
Speaker 2: Chris Voss. It's how to Succeed at hard Conversations. And
Speaker 2: little grad that I saw on Instagram was about how
Speaker 2: the tone of your voice can impact the way that
Speaker 2: you are perceived. We know this, we know the body
Speaker 2: language is very important. I personally have always modulated my well,
Speaker 2: I like to think I've modulated my voice when speaking
Speaker 2: to certain people in order to come across as more reasonable.
Speaker 1: What do you do in particular?
Speaker 3: It can give me like a verbal example of how
Speaker 3: you would normally speak, and then how you'd switch it up.
Speaker 2: I will, but I'm going to play this first.
Speaker 1: Okay, cool.
Speaker 2: So this is Chris Voss, who is an expert negotiator
Speaker 2: talking about the radio DJ night voice.
Speaker 4: I will, and a conversation gets heated, I'll switch into
Speaker 4: that voice with the intention of calming you down, because
Speaker 4: you know that's the hostage and gootiated voice. But it'll
Speaker 4: calm me down to like. Intentionally going to that voice
Speaker 4: camps down the negative emotions, which I'm convinced make me
Speaker 4: dumber in the moment.
Speaker 2: So what he's saying is, when you're in a tense argument,
Speaker 2: you should potentially look into getting like a smooth FM
Speaker 2: late night DJ voice. We all know what that sounds like.
Speaker 2: I think you can have any style of like voice. Okay, Okay,
Speaker 2: let's give it a go. Welcome back to the Flex
Speaker 2: and Room Show. This is Rooms DJ Frooms. It's a
Speaker 2: pleasure to.
Speaker 1: Have like that vibe? Why do you pretend to your man?
Speaker 2: All right, let me try it from like from a
Speaker 2: check perspective. Hey, guys, welcome back to the show.
Speaker 3: No, I want you to say, like talk as if
Speaker 3: you were in an argument. Oh yeah, not yeah, How
Speaker 3: would you use that voice in the context of de escalating?
Speaker 2: First, to just sum up, why what happens when you
Speaker 2: talk into this kind of like more calm voice is
Speaker 2: it will calm you down.
Speaker 1: That's what's very important to always think.
Speaker 2: Oh, it calms the other person down. It will calm
Speaker 2: you down to it's giving nervous system regulation vibes, and
Speaker 2: then we get potentially to a better outcome for both parties.
Speaker 2: How would I use it an argument?
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I can imagine in a corporate environment it
Speaker 3: would make sense, you know, if we're all yelling and
Speaker 3: we're getting excited to be like, okay, look, it seems
Speaker 3: like I'm seeing this from one perspective and you're seeing
Speaker 3: it from another perspective, and if we could just take
Speaker 3: a break for a second and slow down like that
Speaker 3: would work. It's appropriate. But if I was having a
Speaker 3: tense discussion with a friend and you put that voice
Speaker 3: on me, I'd be like, don't take the piss, because
Speaker 3: you would feel like they're trying to infantilize you, like
Speaker 3: they're trying to make you seem like you're the unstable
Speaker 3: one because they've musted all their energy to be calm totally.
Speaker 3: And that is a manipulation tactic. People try and make
Speaker 3: you feel crazier after you respond appropriately to them, and
Speaker 3: then they switch out and take their energy down, so
Speaker 3: now you look insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, So I.
Speaker 2: Think a way to do this if you ever had
Speaker 2: someone like fly off the hand layer and they're just
Speaker 2: like rabid beasts and there's nothing to come down there,
Speaker 2: like they're seeing red, I would like go a bit slower,
Speaker 2: but not in a way that's like a baby voice,
Speaker 2: like okay, you like you're feeling not great about that.
Speaker 2: I'd be like, okay, is that how you feel? Oh,
Speaker 2: and then take.
Speaker 1: A second, take a beat. No, the girl's got scared.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, he's different other than it. Take a beat,
Speaker 2: look at them, and I give them all the space,
Speaker 2: like really look at them and listen to them and say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess where I'm coming from, and like you just
Speaker 2: it's not like infantilizing them or like making them feel
Speaker 2: like their emotions aren't valid.
Speaker 1: I have found that.
Speaker 2: That is effective, particularly when like let's say someone does
Speaker 2: the blind like seeing red blind rage situation, Like they
Speaker 2: know that they're spinning out of control and they can't
Speaker 2: help it, so there will be a colmdown where they think, oh, damn,
Speaker 2: like I really got out of control.
Speaker 1: That I reckon.
Speaker 2: If you're like mid level anger, someone responding in this
Speaker 2: like calm way would piss you off because you're still escalating.
Speaker 2: But if you're at one hundred percent level Crimson red
Speaker 2: level crazy vibes, then I think you're not even hearing
Speaker 2: what I'm saying. So I'm not going to add to
Speaker 2: it by adding your energy. I'm just gonna like cop
Speaker 2: it and be like, you're doing this, and I know
Speaker 2: there's going to be some regrets in about ten minutes,
Speaker 2: I'll just let you finish.
Speaker 3: So it's more about protecting your energy, because I will
Speaker 3: say in this instance, I don't like the advice that
Speaker 3: tells you that in moments of conflict, your best next
Speaker 3: action is a redirect because you've gotten to this point
Speaker 3: for a reason. Nobody gets to the point of a
Speaker 3: screaming match unless it's a build up of something and
Speaker 3: you reach a boiling point. So now to apply this
Speaker 3: strategy of like and everybody bring your voices down and
Speaker 3: everybody chill, it negates the point of why you're at
Speaker 3: this place of conflict. If everybody, if every party involved,
Speaker 3: had the capacity to use those healthy communication techniques, probably
Speaker 3: wouldn't have been in the position for a de escalation,
Speaker 3: do you know what I'm saying. So that gets a
Speaker 3: little bit tricky for me because this person is he
Speaker 3: is an expert negotiator. I'm imagining it's like hostile takeovers.
Speaker 3: I'd say, so, yeah, so really serious. But you know,
Speaker 3: if Chris Voss is talking to a terrorist, for example,
Speaker 3: he's not the reason that that terrorist has done something.
Speaker 3: But in a situation where both parties are responsible, and
Speaker 3: both parties at ample time to get to a point
Speaker 3: before of negotiation, before you have to have this blow up,
Speaker 3: it feels strange to then put a lot of energy
Speaker 3: in like the tone of your voice, because it's like
Speaker 3: we're past that now, it's like this is breaking point.
Speaker 3: How do we find better ways to get our point
Speaker 3: a cross Because I think tone only accounts for only
Speaker 3: so much of it. What I think we struggle to
Speaker 3: do in moments of conflict is remember why we're arguing,
Speaker 3: not how we feel. So let's say I'm really pissed
Speaker 3: off that you and I are meant to go on
Speaker 3: a holiday and you missed your flight or something because
Speaker 3: your taxi was running late. Let's say that's the so
Speaker 3: like we've missed. We've both missed our flights, and there's
Speaker 3: not another flight for three days. We've got to pay
Speaker 3: another ticket. We could start fighting about I could be like,
Speaker 3: why are you late? You'd be like, why are you
Speaker 3: being so mean to me? And then we keep going
Speaker 3: in and in and in on our personalities, and then
Speaker 3: we get like extra loaded because now I'm bringing in
Speaker 3: something from six months ago, you bring something for five
Speaker 3: months ago. But then we've forgotten why are we actually arguing.
Speaker 3: The point is we're not on the flight and we
Speaker 3: need to get on the flight, so for now we
Speaker 3: need to work together. And then that's I think that's
Speaker 3: how you get out of an argument, like recognizing you're
Speaker 3: on the same team if you actually are on the
Speaker 3: same team, because I don't like to de escalate if
Speaker 3: we're not on the same team.
Speaker 1: True, you choose, you know what I mean, like's if
Speaker 1: we're really on.
Speaker 3: The same team and it's in our both our best
Speaker 3: interest to get this resolved, then.
Speaker 1: We actually have to work together. But if we don't,
Speaker 1: then just like be angry and move on.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of energy in trying to resolve situations
Speaker 1: that don't actually matter.
Speaker 2: I feel like I need everything to be resolved. It's
Speaker 2: very I find it very hard to leave things aren't resolved.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel that way sometimes, But I've been on
Speaker 3: the receiving end of people who won't let things go,
Speaker 3: and you're like, you don't even care about me in
Speaker 3: this process, like you would so much so rather me
Speaker 3: be uncomfortable so you can make sure you feel better
Speaker 3: by the end of it.
Speaker 1: You know, when people you're talking, people kind of like
Speaker 1: you're okay, right, and we're good, we're good, right, and you're.
Speaker 3: Like, I just got here, I'm still processing all give
Speaker 3: me a second. I don't even know if we're good.
Speaker 3: But you're not mad at me, right, Like that's fine,
Speaker 3: And you're like, are you one.
Speaker 2: Of them, Mickey, No, I definitely think I'm on your team.
Speaker 1: Flex when it comes to all this serious. Yeah, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent. I don't have time for fights. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: not fun. It's keeping me up at night.
Speaker 2: I'm not entering into it. Yeah, but I'm the kind
Speaker 2: of a minor agreement will be keeping me up at night,
Speaker 2: no vibe, don't you reckon?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it will keep But for example, like to have
Speaker 3: a minor agree, I don't fight for minor agreements. I
Speaker 3: will go moody, I my stonewall. I'll like take myself
Speaker 3: of the situation. I'm not having in a situation worth
Speaker 3: deescalating for something minor. If it's going to be major,
Speaker 3: then I need to assess. Is it for a reason
Speaker 3: we both care about? Like are we Is it going
Speaker 3: to be the reason why we're not friends any okay?
Speaker 1: That matters. Is it going to be the reason why
Speaker 1: we don't go on our holiday? That matters.
Speaker 3: If it's one of these things where it bothers you
Speaker 3: but doesn't bother me, but now you feel upset.
Speaker 1: Here's an example.
Speaker 3: Let's say I'm hanging out with a friend at a
Speaker 3: party and I were in a group conversation. They've said
Speaker 3: something so offensive and it's really ruined the vibe, and
Speaker 3: everybody's upset. They've said something like sexist, homophobic, it's not good.
Speaker 3: They've turned to me and been like, why is it
Speaker 3: reacting weird? Like this always happens. I feel cornered by everyone.
Speaker 1: La la, la la. So I might say, here are
Speaker 1: all the reasons why blah blah blah blah blah. Let
Speaker 1: me get to a screaming match. Why you're my side?
Speaker 1: You meant to be my friend. I'm like, look, this
Speaker 1: is your fault blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: And then she's like, but in yours like this, and
Speaker 3: when you say things lata lah, and nobody ever tells
Speaker 3: you anything. And I'm so sick of everyone be on
Speaker 3: your side. Hold on, we're meant to be fighting because
Speaker 3: you did something wrong. So ideally I would say, okay,
Speaker 3: all good, I get it, But the fact of the
Speaker 3: matter is Susie it Salian say, Susie, Sally and Stacy
Speaker 3: are upset because you said something homophobic? Right, yeah? And
Speaker 3: so how are you going to make that better for them?
Speaker 3: And how should she not my business? I don't know
Speaker 3: this person to drop them, but in this instance, right,
Speaker 3: if they kept going like but no, like you were fine, right,
Speaker 3: We're not talking about that. We're not gonna be fine.
Speaker 3: If you don't go sort this out, like, don't derail
Speaker 3: the current issue because you want to feel better in
Speaker 3: this moment, so you have enough energy to go do
Speaker 3: the things you're meant to do. Go do that, resolve that,
Speaker 3: then circle back and make this better. It's like when
Speaker 3: villains turn into victims. Yeah, do you know that's what happens,
Speaker 3: a lot of times.
Speaker 1: You need to de escalate.
Speaker 3: It's like you're forgetting, Like, if we're both villains, then
Speaker 3: let's not both be victims.
Speaker 1: Let's be heroes. And that's on that. You've been listening
Speaker 1: to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.
Speaker 2: For more, tune Indicator on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.