WEBVTT - How To Win Every Argument 😉

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<v Speaker 1>Flex and Firms Flex and Frooms. This is the Flex

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<v Speaker 1>and Frooms catch up podcast.

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<v Speaker 2>It's Flex and Frooms on Kita. There was a period

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<v Speaker 2>a few months ago, guys where I got really into

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast Humman Lab.

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<v Speaker 1>If you're listening, you're.

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<v Speaker 2>A body hacker type person. Maybe you're a trading on

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<v Speaker 2>the job with like elite muscles, you have to get

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<v Speaker 2>up at five am, and maybe you do indulge in

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<v Speaker 2>the ice breaks, sausage roll combo. I have had a

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<v Speaker 2>sausage row for breakfast two times this week and it

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<v Speaker 2>was elite New era. Yeah, I just really felt like it. Anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>if you're into your body hacking era, you're probably across

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<v Speaker 2>Human Lab. It's by a guy called Andrew Humeman. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a professor at Stanford University in the neuro whatever the

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<v Speaker 2>hell science stuff. He does a weekly podcast all about

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<v Speaker 2>science and how to like body hack your life and

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<v Speaker 2>all that jazz. He had one with a guy called

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<v Speaker 2>Chris Voss. It's how to Succeed at hard Conversations. And

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<v Speaker 2>little grad that I saw on Instagram was about how

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<v Speaker 2>the tone of your voice can impact the way that

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<v Speaker 2>you are perceived. We know this, we know the body

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<v Speaker 2>language is very important. I personally have always modulated my well,

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<v Speaker 2>I like to think I've modulated my voice when speaking

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<v Speaker 2>to certain people in order to come across as more reasonable.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you do in particular?

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<v Speaker 3>It can give me like a verbal example of how

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<v Speaker 3>you would normally speak, and then how you'd switch it up.

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<v Speaker 2>I will, but I'm going to play this first.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, cool.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is Chris Voss, who is an expert negotiator

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the radio DJ night voice.

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<v Speaker 4>I will, and a conversation gets heated, I'll switch into

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<v Speaker 4>that voice with the intention of calming you down, because

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<v Speaker 4>you know that's the hostage and gootiated voice. But it'll

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<v Speaker 4>calm me down to like. Intentionally going to that voice

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<v Speaker 4>camps down the negative emotions, which I'm convinced make me

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<v Speaker 4>dumber in the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>So what he's saying is, when you're in a tense argument,

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<v Speaker 2>you should potentially look into getting like a smooth FM

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<v Speaker 2>late night DJ voice. We all know what that sounds like.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you can have any style of like voice. Okay, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let's give it a go. Welcome back to the Flex

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<v Speaker 2>and Room Show. This is Rooms DJ Frooms. It's a

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<v Speaker 2>pleasure to.

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<v Speaker 1>Have like that vibe? Why do you pretend to your man?

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<v Speaker 2>All right, let me try it from like from a

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<v Speaker 2>check perspective. Hey, guys, welcome back to the show.

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<v Speaker 3>No, I want you to say, like talk as if

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<v Speaker 3>you were in an argument. Oh yeah, not yeah, How

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<v Speaker 3>would you use that voice in the context of de escalating?

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<v Speaker 2>First, to just sum up, why what happens when you

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<v Speaker 2>talk into this kind of like more calm voice is

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<v Speaker 2>it will calm you down.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what's very important to always think.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it calms the other person down. It will calm

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<v Speaker 2>you down to it's giving nervous system regulation vibes, and

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<v Speaker 2>then we get potentially to a better outcome for both parties.

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<v Speaker 2>How would I use it an argument?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, because I can imagine in a corporate environment it

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<v Speaker 3>would make sense, you know, if we're all yelling and

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<v Speaker 3>we're getting excited to be like, okay, look, it seems

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<v Speaker 3>like I'm seeing this from one perspective and you're seeing

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<v Speaker 3>it from another perspective, and if we could just take

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<v Speaker 3>a break for a second and slow down like that

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<v Speaker 3>would work. It's appropriate. But if I was having a

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<v Speaker 3>tense discussion with a friend and you put that voice

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<v Speaker 3>on me, I'd be like, don't take the piss, because

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<v Speaker 3>you would feel like they're trying to infantilize you, like

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<v Speaker 3>they're trying to make you seem like you're the unstable

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<v Speaker 3>one because they've musted all their energy to be calm totally.

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<v Speaker 3>And that is a manipulation tactic. People try and make

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<v Speaker 3>you feel crazier after you respond appropriately to them, and

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<v Speaker 3>then they switch out and take their energy down, so

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<v Speaker 3>now you look insane.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah yeah, yeah, So I.

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<v Speaker 2>Think a way to do this if you ever had

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<v Speaker 2>someone like fly off the hand layer and they're just

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<v Speaker 2>like rabid beasts and there's nothing to come down there,

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<v Speaker 2>like they're seeing red, I would like go a bit slower,

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<v Speaker 2>but not in a way that's like a baby voice,

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<v Speaker 2>like okay, you like you're feeling not great about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I'd be like, okay, is that how you feel? Oh,

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<v Speaker 2>and then take.

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<v Speaker 1>A second, take a beat. No, the girl's got scared.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, he's different other than it. Take a beat,

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<v Speaker 2>look at them, and I give them all the space,

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<v Speaker 2>like really look at them and listen to them and say, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess where I'm coming from, and like you just

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<v Speaker 2>it's not like infantilizing them or like making them feel

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<v Speaker 2>like their emotions aren't valid.

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<v Speaker 1>I have found that.

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<v Speaker 2>That is effective, particularly when like let's say someone does

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<v Speaker 2>the blind like seeing red blind rage situation, Like they

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<v Speaker 2>know that they're spinning out of control and they can't

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<v Speaker 2>help it, so there will be a colmdown where they think, oh, damn,

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<v Speaker 2>like I really got out of control.

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<v Speaker 1>That I reckon.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're like mid level anger, someone responding in this

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<v Speaker 2>like calm way would piss you off because you're still escalating.

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<v Speaker 2>But if you're at one hundred percent level Crimson red

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<v Speaker 2>level crazy vibes, then I think you're not even hearing

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<v Speaker 2>what I'm saying. So I'm not going to add to

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<v Speaker 2>it by adding your energy. I'm just gonna like cop

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<v Speaker 2>it and be like, you're doing this, and I know

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<v Speaker 2>there's going to be some regrets in about ten minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>I'll just let you finish.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's more about protecting your energy, because I will

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<v Speaker 3>say in this instance, I don't like the advice that

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<v Speaker 3>tells you that in moments of conflict, your best next

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<v Speaker 3>action is a redirect because you've gotten to this point

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<v Speaker 3>for a reason. Nobody gets to the point of a

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<v Speaker 3>screaming match unless it's a build up of something and

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<v Speaker 3>you reach a boiling point. So now to apply this

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<v Speaker 3>strategy of like and everybody bring your voices down and

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<v Speaker 3>everybody chill, it negates the point of why you're at

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<v Speaker 3>this place of conflict. If everybody, if every party involved,

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<v Speaker 3>had the capacity to use those healthy communication techniques, probably

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<v Speaker 3>wouldn't have been in the position for a de escalation,

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<v Speaker 3>do you know what I'm saying. So that gets a

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<v Speaker 3>little bit tricky for me because this person is he

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<v Speaker 3>is an expert negotiator. I'm imagining it's like hostile takeovers.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd say, so, yeah, so really serious. But you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if Chris Voss is talking to a terrorist, for example,

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<v Speaker 3>he's not the reason that that terrorist has done something.

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<v Speaker 3>But in a situation where both parties are responsible, and

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<v Speaker 3>both parties at ample time to get to a point

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<v Speaker 3>before of negotiation, before you have to have this blow up,

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<v Speaker 3>it feels strange to then put a lot of energy

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<v Speaker 3>in like the tone of your voice, because it's like

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<v Speaker 3>we're past that now, it's like this is breaking point.

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<v Speaker 3>How do we find better ways to get our point

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<v Speaker 3>a cross Because I think tone only accounts for only

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<v Speaker 3>so much of it. What I think we struggle to

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<v Speaker 3>do in moments of conflict is remember why we're arguing,

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<v Speaker 3>not how we feel. So let's say I'm really pissed

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<v Speaker 3>off that you and I are meant to go on

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<v Speaker 3>a holiday and you missed your flight or something because

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<v Speaker 3>your taxi was running late. Let's say that's the so

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<v Speaker 3>like we've missed. We've both missed our flights, and there's

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<v Speaker 3>not another flight for three days. We've got to pay

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<v Speaker 3>another ticket. We could start fighting about I could be like,

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<v Speaker 3>why are you late? You'd be like, why are you

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<v Speaker 3>being so mean to me? And then we keep going

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<v Speaker 3>in and in and in on our personalities, and then

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<v Speaker 3>we get like extra loaded because now I'm bringing in

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<v Speaker 3>something from six months ago, you bring something for five

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<v Speaker 3>months ago. But then we've forgotten why are we actually arguing.

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<v Speaker 3>The point is we're not on the flight and we

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<v Speaker 3>need to get on the flight, so for now we

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<v Speaker 3>need to work together. And then that's I think that's

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<v Speaker 3>how you get out of an argument, like recognizing you're

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<v Speaker 3>on the same team if you actually are on the

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<v Speaker 3>same team, because I don't like to de escalate if

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<v Speaker 3>we're not on the same team.

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<v Speaker 1>True, you choose, you know what I mean, like's if

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<v Speaker 1>we're really on.

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<v Speaker 3>The same team and it's in our both our best

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<v Speaker 3>interest to get this resolved, then.

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<v Speaker 1>We actually have to work together. But if we don't,

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<v Speaker 1>then just like be angry and move on.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>There's a lot of energy in trying to resolve situations

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<v Speaker 1>that don't actually matter.

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like I need everything to be resolved. It's

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<v Speaker 2>very I find it very hard to leave things aren't resolved.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I feel that way sometimes, But I've been on

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<v Speaker 3>the receiving end of people who won't let things go,

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<v Speaker 3>and you're like, you don't even care about me in

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<v Speaker 3>this process, like you would so much so rather me

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<v Speaker 3>be uncomfortable so you can make sure you feel better

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<v Speaker 3>by the end of it.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, when people you're talking, people kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>you're okay, right, and we're good, we're good, right, and you're.

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<v Speaker 3>Like, I just got here, I'm still processing all give

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<v Speaker 3>me a second. I don't even know if we're good.

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<v Speaker 3>But you're not mad at me, right, Like that's fine,

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<v Speaker 3>And you're like, are you one.

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<v Speaker 2>Of them, Mickey, No, I definitely think I'm on your team.

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<v Speaker 1>Flex when it comes to all this serious. Yeah, one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent. I don't have time for fights. Yeah, that's

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<v Speaker 1>not fun. It's keeping me up at night.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not entering into it. Yeah, but I'm the kind

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<v Speaker 2>of a minor agreement will be keeping me up at night,

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<v Speaker 2>no vibe, don't you reckon?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it will keep But for example, like to have

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<v Speaker 3>a minor agree, I don't fight for minor agreements. I

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<v Speaker 3>will go moody, I my stonewall. I'll like take myself

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<v Speaker 3>of the situation. I'm not having in a situation worth

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<v Speaker 3>deescalating for something minor. If it's going to be major,

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<v Speaker 3>then I need to assess. Is it for a reason

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<v Speaker 3>we both care about? Like are we Is it going

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<v Speaker 3>to be the reason why we're not friends any okay?

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<v Speaker 1>That matters. Is it going to be the reason why

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<v Speaker 1>we don't go on our holiday? That matters.

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<v Speaker 3>If it's one of these things where it bothers you

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<v Speaker 3>but doesn't bother me, but now you feel upset.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's an example.

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<v Speaker 3>Let's say I'm hanging out with a friend at a

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<v Speaker 3>party and I were in a group conversation. They've said

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<v Speaker 3>something so offensive and it's really ruined the vibe, and

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<v Speaker 3>everybody's upset. They've said something like sexist, homophobic, it's not good.

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<v Speaker 3>They've turned to me and been like, why is it

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<v Speaker 3>reacting weird? Like this always happens. I feel cornered by everyone.

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<v Speaker 1>La la, la la. So I might say, here are

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<v Speaker 1>all the reasons why blah blah blah blah blah. Let

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<v Speaker 1>me get to a screaming match. Why you're my side?

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<v Speaker 1>You meant to be my friend. I'm like, look, this

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<v Speaker 1>is your fault blah blah blah blah blah.

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<v Speaker 3>And then she's like, but in yours like this, and

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<v Speaker 3>when you say things lata lah, and nobody ever tells

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<v Speaker 3>you anything. And I'm so sick of everyone be on

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<v Speaker 3>your side. Hold on, we're meant to be fighting because

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<v Speaker 3>you did something wrong. So ideally I would say, okay,

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<v Speaker 3>all good, I get it, But the fact of the

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<v Speaker 3>matter is Susie it Salian say, Susie, Sally and Stacy

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<v Speaker 3>are upset because you said something homophobic? Right, yeah? And

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<v Speaker 3>so how are you going to make that better for them?

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<v Speaker 3>And how should she not my business? I don't know

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<v Speaker 3>this person to drop them, but in this instance, right,

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<v Speaker 3>if they kept going like but no, like you were fine, right,

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<v Speaker 3>We're not talking about that. We're not gonna be fine.

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<v Speaker 3>If you don't go sort this out, like, don't derail

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<v Speaker 3>the current issue because you want to feel better in

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<v Speaker 3>this moment, so you have enough energy to go do

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<v Speaker 3>the things you're meant to do. Go do that, resolve that,

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<v Speaker 3>then circle back and make this better. It's like when

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<v Speaker 3>villains turn into victims. Yeah, do you know that's what happens,

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of times.

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<v Speaker 1>You need to de escalate.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like you're forgetting, Like, if we're both villains, then

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<v Speaker 3>let's not both be victims.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's be heroes. And that's on that. You've been listening

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<v Speaker 1>to The Flex and Froom's daily podcast.

0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:42.560
<v Speaker 2>For more, tune Indicator on DAB or stream it on iHeartRadio.