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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 2: It's the podcast for the time poor parent who just

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Speaker 2: wants answers Now.

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Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago on the Happy Family Podcast,

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Speaker 1: we did an episode about dad jokes and the importance

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Speaker 1: of humor and family life. Then last week we looked

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Speaker 1: at some research that has come out on our Doctor's

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Speaker 1: Desk episode that showed the parents who use humor have

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Speaker 1: better relationships with their kids. And Kylie, you raised an

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Speaker 1: interesting point, and that is that humor doesn't always work.

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Speaker 1: You were raised in the home where there was on

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Speaker 1: a lot of humor, but one of those reasons is

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Speaker 1: because you come from a home where people tend to

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Speaker 1: take everything quite seriously, and if somebody was to say

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Speaker 1: something with the hint of sarcasm, if somebody was to

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Speaker 1: say something that was a little bit roast oriented, it

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Speaker 1: would not go down world. It could cause some family

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Speaker 1: relationship issues. That got us thinking. The new trend everyone's

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Speaker 1: letting chat GPT roast their insta feeds. We've done that

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Speaker 1: at Happy Families. I'll share what it said about our

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Speaker 1: insta feed shortly, but I want to have a conversation

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Speaker 1: about how humor works in families for good and for evil,

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Speaker 1: because it can be wonderful, as the research we talked

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Speaker 1: about on the Doctor's Desk episode showed last week, but sometimes,

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Speaker 1: oh my goodness, it can be absolutely terrifyingly dangerous.

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Speaker 2: Well before I even realized this was a trend, Jared

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Speaker 2: and Chanell, our eldest daughter and her husband, they gave

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Speaker 2: it a go, and I'm telling you, we just laughed

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Speaker 2: our heads off this. I don't know what's so bad

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Speaker 2: about this?

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Speaker 1: Sure hit me with it. So somebody is this their

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Speaker 1: Instagram feed?

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Speaker 2: Right? Their Instagram feed? Jared's? Was your Instagram feed looks

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Speaker 2: like a Hallmark card factory exploded, complete with golden our lighting,

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Speaker 2: adorable baby giggles, and more perfect hair than a shampoo commercial.

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Speaker 1: So this is because they've just had a baby in

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Speaker 1: the last year and they've got nothing.

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Speaker 2: And Jared has long hair like Fabio.

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Speaker 1: Right insid does Chanelle?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, seriously, we get it. You've mastered the art of

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Speaker 2: family photos. Are you trying to make the rest of

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Speaker 2: us look bad? Maybe throw in a messy kitchen or

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Speaker 2: a Todd the tantrum next time, just to remind us

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Speaker 2: that you're human.

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Speaker 1: Right, That doesn't feel like a roast, does it? Like

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Speaker 1: it's very much a compliment with a couple of backhanders

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Speaker 1: thrown in.

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Speaker 2: So Chanelle's wasn't much better either, It said, your Instagram

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Speaker 2: feed is a delightful, albeit slightly chaotic mix of family moments,

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Speaker 2: adorable baby picks, selfies, and random scenes that scream I'm

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Speaker 2: living life on shuffle. From maternity shots and couple selfies

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Speaker 2: to beach days and construction site cameos. It's like you're

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Speaker 2: trying to fit every life milestone into a single grid.

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Speaker 2: The feed radiates warmth and happiness, but a bit more

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Speaker 2: consistency or cohesive theme could help tie everything together.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that doesn't feel like a roast.

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Speaker 2: Still, it's clear and sharing what matter is most to

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Speaker 2: you and what makes it uniquely yours.

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Speaker 1: Which is kind of funny because when you look for

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Speaker 1: a roast, you really want it to burn, and that

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Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it burns what I mean? And it's

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Speaker 1: not as funny as it could be if it was

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Speaker 1: really burning. Does that make sense? This is the Happy

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Speaker 1: Family's Instagram roast. Okay, I've just Evelyn in the office

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Speaker 1: has sent this to me, especially in preparation for today's podcast.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you've heard this, I haven't. Your Instagram

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Speaker 1: feed looks like it's where inspirational quotes and pairing advice

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Speaker 1: go for a spa day. The color scheme screams, I'm soothing,

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Speaker 1: trust me, while your captions are like that friend who's

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Speaker 1: always a little too chipper at six am.

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Speaker 2: It's an ebbs feeling really good about itself.

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Speaker 1: Now it's almost like your poster trying to raise the

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Speaker 1: parents instead of the kids. If one of those inspirational

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Speaker 1: quotes could do the dishes, and let's not forget the

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Speaker 1: endless carousel of how to parent better tips that make

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Speaker 1: us wonder when do you actually sleep? Anyway, Evelyn didn't

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Speaker 1: like it. She said it wasn't mean enough, so she

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Speaker 1: told it to do better. Isn't it how amazing? I

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Speaker 1: mean serious. I don't know if it's changing the world.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it's cure in cancer, but it

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Speaker 1: sure is spitting out some entertaining content, which is, oh

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Speaker 1: my goodness. So this was the harsh one that it

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Speaker 1: sent us. Your Instagram feed is like the Pinterest board

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Speaker 1: of a self help junkie who discovered canva and never

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Speaker 1: looked back the PASTA overload is so aggressive it might

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Speaker 1: as well come with a side of kale smoothies. Those

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Speaker 1: life changing tips and quotes are basically parenting fortune cookies, predictable, saccharine,

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Speaker 1: and a little too proud of themselves. Your captions read

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Speaker 1: like you're trying to win parent of the Year in

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Speaker 1: a competition no one else entered. And honestly, all those

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Speaker 1: perfectly post family photos, they're more staged than a reality

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Speaker 1: TV show. When's the last time you let your hair

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Speaker 1: down and posted something real? So harsh? Right ash? So

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Speaker 1: that got me thinking, how does humor fear in a family?

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Speaker 1: And I means roasting has always been a thing. When

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, we used to love to like

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Speaker 1: we would roast somebody. We didn't use that terminology.

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Speaker 2: No in your family.

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Speaker 1: It was tush.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'd bait each other and say horrible things to

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Speaker 1: each other. But it was things like if somebody did

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Speaker 1: a good one, everyone in the group would look at

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Speaker 1: the person who had just been roasted and go oh burn,

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Speaker 1: Like there was that. That's got to hurt, that's got

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Speaker 1: to cause some pain. And yet, for the most part,

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Speaker 1: as much as I as an adult, as a mature

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Speaker 1: adult who's trying to cultivate compassion, and kindness and generosity.

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Speaker 1: You still like the band No No, I a cringe.

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Speaker 1: It makes me feel awful. And the Tom Brady roast

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Speaker 1: is the most famous roast of all, which happened maybe

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Speaker 1: six months ago now something like that. I watched a

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Speaker 1: portion of it and I had to turn it off.

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Speaker 1: It was brutal the things that these people were saying.

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Speaker 1: The things they were saying about his sporting career are

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Speaker 1: about his divorce. I mean, these things were They went

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Speaker 1: to places that are hurtful. And these are strangers who

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Speaker 1: are about.

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Speaker 2: To say the people that don't have like, there's no

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Speaker 2: real relationship there. They just get to have an opinion

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Speaker 2: because someone's in the limelighte.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're comedians who are being paid to roast this guy.

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Speaker 1: And of course he has agreed to show up and

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Speaker 1: be roasted. That's part of the fun of it, right. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I'm a good sport I can take whatever you throw

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Speaker 1: at me. I'm a successful person. I need to be

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Speaker 1: brought back down to earth. There's roasting and all of

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Speaker 1: the time in our families that doesn't happen. But as

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Speaker 1: I watched it, it just caused me pain to think

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Speaker 1: that people could say such unklind and cruel things and

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Speaker 1: call it funny. And again, in line with the last

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Speaker 1: few podcasts that we've done around humor and families, it

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Speaker 1: just made me think, what is the role of humor

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Speaker 1: and how do we know where the line exists? Kylie

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Speaker 1: a family member that I just don't have anything to

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Speaker 1: do with anymore. I stopped having anything to do with

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Speaker 1: him because of his sarcasm. Every word that came out

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Speaker 1: of his mouth felt sarcastic. It felt like it was

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Speaker 1: a put down and it was all an attenpse to

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Speaker 1: be cool, to be funny, to use humor to make

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Speaker 1: a point, but it just.

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Speaker 2: Got littling and humor it's sarcasm.

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Speaker 1: In their mind though it is, and so humor is.

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Speaker 2: Only humor if both people consider that funny.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe. But the thing is, you often don't know

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Speaker 1: if the other person will consider it funny or not

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Speaker 1: until you've said it, and then you might be so

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Speaker 1: impressed with your humor. I mean, how often do you

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Speaker 1: look at someone and say, oh, come on, it was

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Speaker 1: just a joke that was funny, and they're like, no,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't funny, it was offensive. Therefore, I have three ideas,

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Speaker 1: three ideas that highlight the benefits of roasting and trash

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Speaker 1: talk in a family, because I think there really are,

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Speaker 1: and I want to acknowledge that. I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to sound all stiff and start to

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Speaker 1: you because it can be really fun to tear strips

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Speaker 1: off people in the right context with the right tone,

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Speaker 1: for the right reasons, but it can also be terribly destructive.

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Speaker 1: And I want to share research that highlights three different

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Speaker 1: concerns that we might have things that we need to

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Speaker 1: be careful of challenges when it comes to roasting and

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Speaker 1: trash talking in our close and personal, real life relationships.

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Speaker 2: So I really struggle with this conversation because I Number one.

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Speaker 1: I just because you're a serious person who grew up

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Speaker 1: in a serious house.

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Speaker 2: I am a serious person and I did grow up

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Speaker 2: in a serious house. I believe that if I'm going

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Speaker 2: to have an interaction with someone, I want it to

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Speaker 2: be an uplifting conversation. I want it and I can

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Speaker 2: still have fun with that. But if my intent is

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Speaker 2: to pull somebody down, then that doesn't meet my ends

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Speaker 2: of striving to live a life where I make a

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Speaker 2: positive difference in people's lives.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so here are three reasons that you might be

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Speaker 1: concerned about roasting and trash talk and a family based

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Speaker 1: on a sort of an amalgamation of a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different studies that look at how that negative relational discourse

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Speaker 1: can happen. Number One, it can very very easily cross

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Speaker 1: the line into hurtful teasing. You have to make sure

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Speaker 1: that whoever you're saying this to gets the context. They

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Speaker 1: know that this is playful, but.

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Speaker 2: You don't ever know that, right because as an individual,

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Speaker 2: when somebody says that to you, especially in a group setting,

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Speaker 2: more times than not, especially when you're talking about teenagers,

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Speaker 2: we laugh because everybody else is laughing, But deep down,

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Speaker 2: you've just cut a massive hole in my.

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Speaker 1: Heart, exactly. And the thing is, and this is why

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Speaker 1: I'm sensitive to this, Jokes that target sensitive areas or

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Speaker 1: personal securities, or jokes that are mean spirited can really

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Speaker 1: cause emotional harm and damage relationships. I mean, it really

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Speaker 1: does undermine trust unless the other person is in on

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Speaker 1: the joke, playing along, and even then sometimes they're doing

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Speaker 1: it to save face, so it can be very very tricky. Second,

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Speaker 1: and this is a really big one for me, I

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Speaker 1: think that when we get involved in trash talking and

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Speaker 1: roasting and these so called playful put downs. What we

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Speaker 1: often do is in we build, we build a culture

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Speaker 1: of disrespect. Like if that becomes the primary mode of communication,

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Speaker 1: or even if it's just a regular part of communication,

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Speaker 1: respect and kindness get undermined, Relationships get strained. It becomes

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Speaker 1: hard to be vulnerable with the people who you're closest too.

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Speaker 1: If everything that you say could suddenly become a target

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Speaker 1: and you end up being victimized over and over and

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Speaker 1: over again because of your sensitivities and vulnerabilities, you just

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Speaker 1: don't want to share stuff. That culture of disrespect is painful.

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Speaker 2: That kind of reminds me of the conversation we just

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Speaker 2: had with the kids the other night when something happened

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Speaker 2: and they look to us and went, is that podcast material? Now?

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Speaker 1: That's got to be careful? Mom and dad might use

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Speaker 1: it for content. Third one is that it impacts on

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Speaker 1: vulnerable family members, especially children. Younger kids. They're usually I

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Speaker 1: shouldn't say usually, but they're often not going to understand

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Speaker 1: the nuances that are involved in whether it's sarcasm or

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Speaker 1: a playful roasts, and they're much more likely to internalize

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Speaker 1: those negative comments. Even me as a nearly fifty year

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Speaker 1: old man every now and again. Just recently, a family

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Speaker 1: member said something at an extended family get together, and

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Speaker 1: it took me to a three three weeks to kind

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Speaker 1: of get past it and realize that it was just

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Speaker 1: a playful roast. I took it to heart. It really

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Speaker 1: stabbed me because I happened to have a sensitivity of

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Speaker 1: vulnerability in that area that I never knew that I

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Speaker 1: had until it came up on the night. And when

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Speaker 1: that happens, that people don't feel safe, they don't feel respected,

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Speaker 1: it feels like a culture of disrespect. So there my

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Speaker 1: three big reasons that I think we've got to be

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Speaker 1: so careful if we're going to engage ourselves in roasting.

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Speaker 2: Well. Like I said, I still don't agree with this

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Speaker 2: trash talk conversation in any way, shape or form, But

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Speaker 2: you're obviously got a list of positives that can come

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Speaker 2: out of y.

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Speaker 1: Let me see if I can convince you that there

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Speaker 1: could be some gain to be had. So the first

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Speaker 1: one is that it can strengthen bonds if it's done

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Speaker 1: in a playful and a lighthearted way, it can bring

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Speaker 1: people closer together. It's that witty banter, the shared humor,

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Speaker 1: the camaraderie. It can lead to increased feelings of I'm

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Speaker 1: going to use the word intimacy and connection if it's

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Speaker 1: done playfully and everybody on the same page that we

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Speaker 1: are goofing off and that there's no harm, no.

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Speaker 2: Foul, So I can think of other ways to have fun,

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Speaker 2: of course, without going down this road when you've already

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Speaker 2: given me a big list of possibilities that are not great.

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Speaker 1: Secondly, it can build resilience. And what do I mean

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Speaker 1: by that, Well, if the roasting in the trash talk

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Speaker 1: is good natured, Like let's say you're out on the

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Speaker 1: sporting field with one of the kids and you're kicking

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Speaker 1: a ball, or you're tackling each other, or you try

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Speaker 1: to shoot hoops or beat each other in a race

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Speaker 1: around a track or something like that. You can throw

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Speaker 1: a little bit of trash talk their way and that

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Speaker 1: makes them fight harder, or push through more, or get

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Speaker 1: gritty and resilient and do hard things. And it also

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Speaker 1: gives you the chance to laugh at yourself, like sometimes

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Speaker 1: in those really desperate moments, when you say something that's

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Speaker 1: a bit of a roast, either on yourself or somebody else,

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Speaker 1: it just makes everybody laugh and recognize that what we're

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Speaker 1: doing right now, we're taking it so seriously and we're

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Speaker 1: just goofing off in the park. There's not even an audience.

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Speaker 1: No one's watching. We're not playing for sheep stations, there's

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Speaker 1: no multimillion dollar contracts on offer, and I just think

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Speaker 1: that I think that it can be fun from that

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Speaker 1: point of view.

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Speaker 2: Is this just because you're a boy?

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Speaker 1: Boys do it a lot more than girls. Yeah, they do.

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Speaker 2: What's number three?

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Speaker 1: I think now I wanted to I'm trepidacious about sharing

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Speaker 1: this one, but I reckon that it can if you

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Speaker 1: engage in really clever verbal sparring. It requires really quick thinking,

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Speaker 1: it requires it requires the ability to express ourselves in

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Speaker 1: a fun and humorous way. And when you couple that

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Speaker 1: with the connection and the bonds and the resilience that

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Speaker 1: it can create, I think that it can actually burst

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Speaker 1: confidence and burst communication abilities and turns it into a

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Speaker 1: like just a fun, engaging interaction. It makes life spicy.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I'm just going to flip this all on

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Speaker 2: its head, and I think more important than learning the

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Speaker 2: art of trash talking, we'd be teaching our kids. It's

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Speaker 2: the art of learning to laugh at themselves if we

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Speaker 2: can take ourselves less seriously in the moments where we

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Speaker 2: stuff but we make mistakes and it's okay because then

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Speaker 2: you're the one leading the conversation. You're the one who's going,

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Speaker 2: it's okay, I look like a goofball, It's fine, and

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Speaker 2: we can have a good laugh about it together as

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Speaker 2: opposed to somebody else putting shade on the other person.

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Speaker 1: I really love it.

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Speaker 2: You're going to have I think, a much happier and

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Speaker 2: healthier family relation.

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Speaker 1: I really really love that. Now this is a hard

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Speaker 1: podcast for me as well, because roasting and trash talking

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Speaker 1: and not something that I facilitate or encourage, And I

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Speaker 1: just think we've got to be so careful there. Fundamentally,

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Speaker 1: your idea is a much better one than what this

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Speaker 1: whole podcast was about. But I wanted to do this

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Speaker 1: podcast because we've been talking so much about humor and families,

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Speaker 1: but also because a lot of families are not like

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Speaker 1: you and I. A lot of families love to do

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Speaker 1: some trash talk. A lot of families love to roast

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Speaker 1: each other and they really get into it. So my

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Speaker 1: caution would be if you are one of those families

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Speaker 1: that really does in joy a good lot of banter,

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Speaker 1: a good lot of just paying out on each other

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Speaker 1: because it is fun and funny in your home. Empathy

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Speaker 1: is the critical thing here. Be cautious, be empathic, watch

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Speaker 1: body language carefully, and if you think that there's been

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Speaker 1: any rupture in the relationship, make sure you dive in

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Speaker 1: and repair it really effectively. Set We really hope that

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Speaker 1: this podcast has given you some food for thought. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it's changed the way that you want to engage with

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Speaker 1: roasting and trash talk and it's time to ban it

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Speaker 1: all together. Or maybe you can see that you can

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Speaker 1: do it in ways that are going to work for

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Speaker 1: your family and improve the family dynamic as a result,

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Speaker 1: because what has been happening has not been healthy. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin ruland from Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: More information about making your family happier is available at

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Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot au