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Speaker 1: Already and this da this is the Daily os. Oh,

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Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to the

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Speaker 1: Daily Odds. It's Friday, the fourth of October. I'm Harry,

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara. Yesterday the approved list of NDIS support services

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Speaker 1: came into effect. Wheelchairs, railings at home and hearing aids

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Speaker 1: are among the supports that got the tick, but the

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Speaker 1: government's list has removed some supports, including alternative therapies, sex

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Speaker 1: services and gym memberships. The list dropped two days before

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Speaker 1: it came into effect, raising concerns from disability advocates that

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Speaker 1: it didn't provide them enough time to adjust to the

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Speaker 1: new rules. In today's deep dive, we'll look at how

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Speaker 1: and why the NDIS is changing. But first, Sarah, what's

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Speaker 1: making headlines.

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Speaker 2: Foreign Minister Penny Wong is urging all Australians in Lebanon

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Speaker 2: to leave the country. The Department of Foreign Affairs and

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Speaker 2: Trade has allocated five hundred seats for Australians on two

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Speaker 2: flights to Cyprus this weekend, but Wong said that flights

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Speaker 2: are depending on the airport in Beirute remaining operational. In

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Speaker 2: oppost to x the Foreign Minister said, and I quote

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Speaker 2: if you are able to secure a seat on a

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Speaker 2: flight out take it. Now is not the time to

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Speaker 2: wait and see. Now is the time to leave.

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Speaker 1: New South Wales has recorded the largest outbreak of EMPOC

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Speaker 1: since twenty twenty two, with four hundred and thirty three

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Speaker 1: recorded cases since the beginning of June. Empox is a

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Speaker 1: viral disease that can cause skin and muscle lesions, high temperatures,

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Speaker 1: headaches and muscle aches. The state's chief health officer, Carry

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Speaker 1: Chance Set quote, the rapidly rising numbers are very concerning

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Speaker 1: and said twenty six people have since been hospitalized with

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Speaker 1: severe symptoms. Chant is urging sex workers and men who

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Speaker 1: have had with other men to get vaccinated against MPOs.

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Speaker 1: It requires two doses, which are available for free in

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Speaker 1: New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: One hundred and sixty five pages of court documents relating

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Speaker 2: to a criminal case against former President Donald Trump have

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Speaker 2: now been made public. Prosecutors say there's new evidence in

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Speaker 2: the documents to prove that Trump intentionally tried to overthrow

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Speaker 2: the results of the twenty twenty election, which he lost

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Speaker 2: to Joe Biden. The unsealed files include an account from

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Speaker 2: a staffer who alleges they overheard Trump telling his family

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Speaker 2: it quote didn't matter who won or lost the election,

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Speaker 2: he would still quote fight like hell to remain in

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Speaker 2: the White House. The US Department of Justice said that

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Speaker 2: Trump resorted to crimes to try to stay in office

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Speaker 2: and launched a series of increasingly desperate plans to overturn

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Speaker 2: the results of the election. Authorities are seeking to convince

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Speaker 2: the court that the former president is not immune from prosecution.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, neuroscientist have completed the first map

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Speaker 1: of a fruitfly brain. Scientists from Princeton University found the

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Speaker 1: poppy seed sized brain of a fruitfly contains over one

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Speaker 1: hundred and thirty nine thousand nerve cells with nearly fifty

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Speaker 1: five million connections. It took nearly two decades to map

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Speaker 1: the tiny brain in such detail. Researchers said most people

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Speaker 1: thought the project was either not possible or that even

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Speaker 1: if they were successful, the data would be useless. However,

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Speaker 1: the findings have given neuroscientists new insight, for example, how

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Speaker 1: brains react to changes in light and motion, and how

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Speaker 1: information flows to the brain. The map could also give

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Speaker 1: new insights into how nervous systems work.

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Speaker 2: Generally, Harry I think that sometimes in the news. We

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Speaker 2: can use acronyms very often that sometimes don't get explained

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Speaker 2: as such and are used as this kind of assumed knowledge.

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Speaker 2: So to start us off for this deep dive, can

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Speaker 2: you just explain what actually is the NDIS.

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Speaker 1: So it's the National Disability Insurance Scheme and I think

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Speaker 1: most people would associate it with two things, people with

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Speaker 1: disability and money. But to recap, the NDIS is a

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Speaker 1: scheme helping to support people with disabilities to live as

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Speaker 1: independently as possible. And it's set up for people nine

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Speaker 1: to sixty five years old and they are given a

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Speaker 1: budget to spend on the things that they need, so

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Speaker 1: that includes things like hearing aids, wheelchairs or railings to

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Speaker 1: be installed in your house. Australia's quite advanced in terms

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Speaker 1: of this funding model because it's entirely government funded. And

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Speaker 1: when it was first hatched and brought into existence in

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Speaker 1: twenty thirteen under the then Gillard government, they would use

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Speaker 1: words like world leading pioneering support for people with disabilities.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And so this scheme has been in existence since

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Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. We're talking about it today because some things

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Speaker 2: have changed.

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Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, So I think it's important to note that

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Speaker 1: the NDIS isn't cheap. It is a very costly program.

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Speaker 1: So in the last year, the government spent forty four

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Speaker 1: point six billion dollars on the scheme and it was

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Speaker 1: the fastest growing expenditure out of all the government's spending categories,

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Speaker 1: and the only thing that topped it was its interest repayments,

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Speaker 1: which is a whole other separate economic category. Now, the

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Speaker 1: majority of the funding in the NDIS goes towards the

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Speaker 1: NDIS plans for each individual participant, so that's forty two

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Speaker 1: out of the forty four point six billion dollars that

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. The question of the scheme's viability financially

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Speaker 1: has been something that both sides of politics have long

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Speaker 1: grappled with, both Labor and the Coalition, and there is

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Speaker 1: a bit of flame shifting about why the scheme has

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Speaker 1: blown out. Now, the government passed legislation under the title

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Speaker 1: Getting the NDIS back on Track earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: So that was their attempt to try and cut those

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Speaker 2: costs that you said have blown out so much.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and they wanted to introduce ways to just

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Speaker 1: rein in a bit of the spending associated with the NDIS.

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Speaker 1: The government said the reforms that they were introducing would

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Speaker 1: save about fourteen point four billion dollars over the next

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Speaker 1: four years.

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Speaker 2: What were the type of reforms we're talking about here.

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Speaker 1: So that's the kind of support services that someone on

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Speaker 1: an NDIS plan can claim. So that's why we're talking

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Speaker 1: about it this week because we found out what is

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Speaker 1: categorized as an approved support service and what is.

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Speaker 2: Not harry For people that might not be on the

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Speaker 2: NDIS themselves or know someone on the NDIS, can you

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Speaker 2: just talk us through what sort of services are we

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Speaker 2: talking about? What can people claim as part of the NDIS.

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Speaker 1: So it's a pretty comprehensive list that's meant to act

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Speaker 1: like kind of a set of guardrails about what you

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Speaker 1: can claim on the scheme. So that includes things like

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Speaker 1: a guide, animal hearing, envision AIDS. There's some broader categories,

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Speaker 1: so a home modification, so if you need a rail,

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Speaker 1: or if you need an access ramp, or you might

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Speaker 1: need to make adjustments to your car, so that would

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Speaker 1: include installing a hoist or modifying your seat. And also

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Speaker 1: things to help you physically move around, so mobility, scooters, wheelchairs, walkers,

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Speaker 1: those kinds of things are what's been categorized as approved

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Speaker 1: NDIS support services. There was a bit of commentary through

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Speaker 1: the year about whether menstrual products would be part of

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Speaker 1: an approved support service.

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Speaker 2: That's because the government published a draft list that said

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Speaker 2: that they weren't included those menstrual products.

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Speaker 1: That's right, and now they've walked back on that and

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Speaker 1: they have included menstrual products. So that's things like applicators

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Speaker 1: and period underwear.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so Harry, just to recap here, we're saying the

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Speaker 2: government wants to bring down its spending on the NDIS,

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Speaker 2: and the government of the day, the Labor government, has

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Speaker 2: identified that one way they can do that is to

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Speaker 2: more carefully define what supports someone on the NDIS can

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Speaker 2: access using that money versus what they can't. So you

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Speaker 2: run through a bit of a list of what they can,

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Speaker 2: but I think a lot more of the media attention

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Speaker 2: has been now on what people on the NDIS cannot access.

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Speaker 2: Take me through some of the things that we now

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Speaker 2: understand cannot be accessed using NDIS funds.

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Speaker 1: So the list of things that you can't access is

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Speaker 1: also quite comprehensive. And as I mentioned about the guard rails,

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Speaker 1: these are the things that exist outside those guardrails, and

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Speaker 1: the government went to some length to define what won't

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Speaker 1: be approved. And that's not to say that all these

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Speaker 1: things that I'm about to talk through have been claimed

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Speaker 1: in the past. Some of them have, but Bill Shorten,

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Speaker 1: the NDIS minister, has said that not all of these

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Speaker 1: things have been claimed previously. So day to day expenses

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Speaker 1: for things like rent, food, internet, gym memberships, they won't

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Speaker 1: be covered under the NDIS. Surrogacy and fertility treatments aren't

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Speaker 1: classified as an NDIS expense either, and then the government

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Speaker 1: went into a range of what it described as alternative

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Speaker 1: therapies that can't be claimed. So crystal cuddle, yoga, wilderness

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Speaker 1: and sound therapies are all out. Frequency healing, REYKI, deep

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Speaker 1: energy cleansing, no Tarot card reading either. The NDIS also

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Speaker 1: won't cover what the government turns wellness and coaching, so

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Speaker 1: that's areas that it says aren't based in evidence, so

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Speaker 1: that's life coaches, hypnotherapy, or a career advisor.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that's been spoken about a lot

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Speaker 2: was sex services, and we've spoken about it before on

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Speaker 2: this podcast. Which category have sex services actually fallen in?

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Speaker 1: Now they're not an approved NDIS support service. The government

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Speaker 1: has also given a bit of a grace period, so

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Speaker 1: over the next year, if someone accidentally claims something that

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Speaker 1: isn't covered by the NDIS, that will be flagged and

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Speaker 1: they won't necessarily get in trouble. Sex services, alcohol and

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Speaker 1: illegal drugs are the only exception to that. You can't

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Speaker 1: claim that, and if you are flagged, you could face

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Speaker 1: a bit of trouble. It's not so clear what that

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Speaker 1: would be just yet, but the government was definitely quite

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Speaker 1: clear that you can't try and claim any of those things.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so those new rules came into effect yesterday, but

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Speaker 2: we only got those lists this week as well. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's been lots of speculation about what would be on them,

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Speaker 2: what wouldn't be on them, but the government only actually

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Speaker 2: published them earlier this week.

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Speaker 1: The disability community had two days to really comb through

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Speaker 1: everything that has been either categorized as approved or not approved,

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Speaker 1: and it's fair to say that some of the advocacy

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Speaker 1: groups were not only concerned about it, they weren't happy

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Speaker 1: about it at all. The deadline had been approaching for

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Speaker 1: some time, so we knew that October third was the

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Speaker 1: date that the new Support Services list would come into effect,

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Speaker 1: but we didn't know what was officially going to be

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Speaker 1: on that list until two days before that. We've heard

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Speaker 1: from a number of organizations now who said they're quite concerned,

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Speaker 1: so the Disability Advocacy Network Australia and People with Disability

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Speaker 1: Australia who said there just wasn't nearly enough time to

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Speaker 1: fully adjust to the new rules. And those groups had

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Speaker 1: been asking the government to give what they termed reasonable

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Speaker 1: notice about what was changing, and they're basically saying that

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Speaker 1: two days is really pushing the friendship.

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Speaker 2: But just to clarify here, there's not two days in

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Speaker 2: which this changes forever. There is that grace period that

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Speaker 2: the government has outlined.

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Speaker 1: That's right. So if you are an NDIS participant and

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Speaker 1: you claim something under one thy five hundred dollars and

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Speaker 1: you weren't meant to claim that thing, the agency overseeing

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Speaker 1: the NDIS would flag that and you would then just

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Speaker 1: be told you can't claim that and there wouldn't be

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Speaker 1: necessarily any punishment. So that's their way of sort of

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Speaker 1: transitioning into this new support system.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but there still is this criticism that remains from

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, these advocacy groups. How has the government

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Speaker 2: responded to that criticism.

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Speaker 1: So the NDIS Minister Bill Shorten has said that nobody

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Speaker 1: would lose their NDIS funding to help manage their disabilities

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Speaker 1: for the things that they need. He also said that

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Speaker 1: this list is pretty much a continuation of the status quo,

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Speaker 1: that these are things that are currently being claimed and

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Speaker 1: that the vast majority of cases won't be affected by

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Speaker 1: setting out these approval lists. The President of People with

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Speaker 1: Disability Australia, Murray A. Kred Jonk, has said the comber

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Speaker 1: nation of the narrow time frame and some possible confusion

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Speaker 1: about the changes coming into effect mean that some people

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Speaker 1: could go without critical supports that they do need. So

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Speaker 1: it's going to be a really big test for the

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Speaker 1: government and the agency overseeing the NDIS who is implementing

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Speaker 1: these changes and whether people with disabilities are going to

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Speaker 1: still get the right level of support that they need.

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Speaker 2: Harry, this is a scheme that involves some six hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand people in this country. As you said, you know,

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Speaker 2: the costs associated with it have been something that both

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Speaker 2: political parties have really grappled with. So understanding how these

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Speaker 2: changes affect, you know, the communities and the people who

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Speaker 2: need them and who rely on them, but also understanding

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Speaker 2: whether that will make a difference then to the government's budget.

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Speaker 2: It's certainly something that we'll be keeping an eye on.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for explaining that story to us today, and

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Speaker 2: thank you for tuning into another week of The Daily.

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Speaker 2: If you are listening on Apple or Spotify, we would

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Speaker 2: love you to hit follow. It sends a signal to

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Speaker 2: are watching us on YouTube, you can hit subscribe and

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Speaker 2: never miss another video. We'll be back again on Monday,

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Speaker 2: but until then, have a fabulous weekend.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Kalkuton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.