1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: And then when it comes to presenting, I think there 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,400 Speaker 1: is an instinct to jump into presenting and that we 3 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: sort of throw away those moments where you know, I 4 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: think really good presenters they settle the audience right. 5 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:21,760 Speaker 2: So if you watch a really good presenter, you. 6 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 1: Go, oh, yeah, I feel really comfortable with this person, 7 00:00:25,079 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: or I'm in safe hands, or you've already got a 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: feeling right like you've been transported to a different place. 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 1: They pull you in to the feeling of where they 10 00:00:37,280 --> 00:00:39,879 Speaker 1: want to take you, and you can do that in 11 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: a virtual environment. 12 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 13 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 3: used by the world's most successful people to get so 14 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 3: much out of their day. I'm your host, doctor Ahmedabact. 15 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 3: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 16 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 3: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date. Now, 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 3: if you're a regular listener to the show, you'll know 18 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 3: that something I've been doing lately is reaching out to 19 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 3: some of my favorite guests from the past because I've 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: been curious as to how has the way that they 21 00:01:17,280 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 3: work changed as a result of COVID and being in lockdown. 22 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: So today my guest, and I'm so excited to have 23 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 3: her back on because I loved our first chat is 24 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 3: Rachel Botsman. Rachel is a world renowned expert on technology 25 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 3: and trust and is the author of two best selling books. 26 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 3: Her first book was called What's Mine Is Yours, which 27 00:01:41,640 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: was all about collaborative consumption, and her second book, Who 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,120 Speaker 3: Can You Trust, explores how technology is transforming trust and 29 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,840 Speaker 3: what this means for life, work, and how we do business. 30 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 3: Rachel is also a Trust Fellow at Oxford University and 31 00:01:57,160 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 3: has been recognized as one of the most creative people 32 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 3: in Buses by Fast Company and as one of the 33 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 3: fifty most influential management thinkers in the world. She's also 34 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:10,120 Speaker 3: the host of the podcast Trust Issues, which if you 35 00:02:10,240 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 3: haven't listened to, it's definitely worth checking out. Rachel is 36 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,799 Speaker 3: a great interviewer and gets amazing guests, and also where 37 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 3: you might have come across Rachel is via her TED Talks, 38 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 3: which has been viewed by literally millions of people. So 39 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 3: in today's chat, I had planned to talk to Rachel 40 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 3: about how the way that she is approaching her work 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,560 Speaker 3: has changed. She is based over in the UK and 42 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 3: is definitely still in lockdown, but where we ended up 43 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 3: going is actually having a big discussion about the design 44 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:48,120 Speaker 3: of virtual experiences. So Rachel delivers a lot of virtual 45 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 3: experiences in the form of keynotes, workshops, and her teaching 46 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 3: at Oxford, and she has been thinking a lot about this. 47 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 3: So I think if you're doing this kind of thing 48 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,400 Speaker 3: for work, maybe you're designing meetings or presentations, or any 49 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:08,520 Speaker 3: kind of situation where you're gathering people in the virtual world, 50 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 3: you will definitely get some really cool practical tips from 51 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:15,200 Speaker 3: this interview. I know that after doing this interview with Rachel, 52 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: I started to redesign how I was thinking about things 53 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,240 Speaker 3: like keynotes and workshop facilitation and that kind of thing. 54 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: So on that note, let's go to Rachel to hear 55 00:03:25,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 3: about how she is thinking about the design of virtual experiences. Rachel, 56 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 3: welcome back to How I Work. 57 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 2: Thank you for having me. I feel like, what was 58 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 2: it two three years? 59 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 3: You go, I reckon it was two years ago. You were, Yeah, 60 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: one of the first guests that I had on the show, 61 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 3: and here we are, I think, you know, over a 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 3: million downloads later, and you know, like so much of 63 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 3: that interview really stuck with me, particularly at chat around 64 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:57,200 Speaker 3: how you design presentations which I do. I do want 65 00:03:57,240 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 3: to circle back to and I think for anyone listening 66 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 3: at the moment, that is in the business of creating presentations, 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 3: to present ideas and persuade people of certain ways of thinking. 68 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 3: I think, you know, going back to that interview, that 69 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 3: was just amazing hearing you talk about that process. I mean, 70 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 3: you're an amazing speaker and just understanding what goes on 71 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 3: behind the scenes. I love that. But I want to 72 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:20,680 Speaker 3: pay a picture because you're on the opposite side of 73 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 3: the world to me. So can you tell me what 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 3: life is like for you right now? And how long 75 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 3: you've been in lockdown isolation? 76 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: Yeah? 77 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: So, well, since we last spoke, I've moved, well, my 78 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,680 Speaker 1: whole family has moved to Oxford in England, and so 79 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,479 Speaker 1: we're very lucky in the sense that I would find 80 00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:43,360 Speaker 1: it very hard being in London right now. So Oxford 81 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:47,880 Speaker 1: we have the countryside. It is quite peaceful because it's 82 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,800 Speaker 1: a place where people walk and they cycle. So I 83 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:53,880 Speaker 1: feel very fortunate from that perspective. 84 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,320 Speaker 2: What is life learn? So lockdown started. 85 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,799 Speaker 1: I think mid March, and well I remember the moment 86 00:05:01,880 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 1: where I knew we were in for something epic. 87 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 2: I had It was early February and I got on 88 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 2: a plane to go to New York. 89 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: And I was on the plane and as I got 90 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,119 Speaker 1: off the plane, I was going to give a talk 91 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:22,360 Speaker 1: to Goldman Sachs, to the CEO and the partners who 92 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 1: were flying. 93 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:24,960 Speaker 2: In from the world around the world. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,320 Speaker 1: And I was very excited because it was with such 95 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: an Adella, who's a CEO I really respect, and I 96 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 1: put tons of work into this. And then I got 97 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 1: off the plane. I was like, it has been canceled 98 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: due to COVID. Feel free to turn around and go back. 99 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,839 Speaker 2: And I was like, well, I'm. 100 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: Not going to get this jobard across the Atlantic. So 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: I had some other things to do in New York, 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,480 Speaker 1: but you know, nothing had changed. Everyone was in the restaurants, 103 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: I had some publishers meetings. No one was talking about it. 104 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: But what was in my head was Goldman have access 105 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 1: to information about markets and movements that very few people 106 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: are privileged to. So what did they know that I 107 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: don't know? And I sort of became a bit obsessed 108 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: by this. So I think by the time, you know, 109 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: everyone went away skiing in half. 110 00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 2: Term, and I thought this isn't right. 111 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: So I think I was mentally prepared for it by 112 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:25,120 Speaker 1: the time it had happened, because I just felt it 113 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 1: was inevitable. So yeah, life and lotdown like for most people, 114 00:06:32,600 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 1: every day is very different, partly because of the children. 115 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 2: I have a six year. 116 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: Old and an eight year old, and one of the 117 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: things that I had to really adjust to was not 118 00:06:43,600 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: just homeschooling and the practicalities of it, but that you know, 119 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,919 Speaker 1: when I work, I very much go into a bubble. 120 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 2: I loved just being in my bubble, and my day 121 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 2: was very much informed by their. 122 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 1: Emotional temperament, which would change by the minute. 123 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 2: So that was really hard to accept, to. 124 00:07:06,480 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: Be honest, in the beginning, and I would get very 125 00:07:08,320 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 1: frustrated that I couldn't find any periods for immersion, and 126 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 1: I had a full teaching term ahead of me, so 127 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: I had to design and teach an entire course online. 128 00:07:21,240 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: So it was challenging. And I think now we found 129 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 1: I don't want to say some harmony. 130 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 2: But we've found some structure that works for them. 131 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: We found some boundaries, but they invented them, not me, 132 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,920 Speaker 1: which was really important. And I think we've all found 133 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: some space, which has been helping them find space. 134 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,600 Speaker 2: Has been really interesting. So my six year old. 135 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: Is massively into podcasts we need to hear. I think 136 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 1: she listens to like four or five a day, which 137 00:07:55,480 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 1: at first I was like, we can't listen to that much. 138 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 2: And I'm like, you know what, who cares? 139 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 3: And my cass because my six year old is addicted 140 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 3: to audio books. So one of the podcasts that your 141 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:08,440 Speaker 3: six year old is listening. 142 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 2: To, Oh, she loves the Guy Rass. Wow of the World. 143 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: She loves this is so weird. She loves how I 144 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 1: built this. I think she just loves Guy Rass. 145 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: Because he's got a great voice. 146 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, but she comes down, she goes, do you know 147 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: how Ben and Jerry's like invented their ice cream? Well, 148 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: it wasn't going to be ice cream, it was going 149 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 1: to be bagels. And so, you know, at first I thought, 150 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: this is terrible. I have to be teaching how to 151 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 1: cow she can't read. 152 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:40,800 Speaker 2: And then I'm like, just let go. 153 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: If she finds a thing, whatever the thing is, that's 154 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 1: completely wonderful. So and then my son's thing is he's 155 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:55,920 Speaker 1: been learning how to code. So he's learning He loves Minecraft, 156 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 1: but he's learning the code behind Minecraft, how to create 157 00:08:59,360 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: the games. 158 00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:04,480 Speaker 2: So yeah, so that's life being knocked down. 159 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 3: Oh my gosh. And look, we might circle back to 160 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 3: parenting and homeschooling a bit later on. We're really lucky 161 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 3: in Australia because schools just started again, so fingers crossed 162 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: it continues. But before we started recording, we were talking 163 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 3: about how something that you're really passionate about is around 164 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 3: the design of experiences. And I feel like ninety nine 165 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 3: percent of the world is terrible at this and like, 166 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:34,599 Speaker 3: rather than death by PowerPoint, we're now experiencing death by zoom. 167 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 3: And so you're teaching, You've moved your curriculum online, and 168 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,680 Speaker 3: I imagine, like me, you're probably doing a lot of 169 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 3: virtual keynote delivery now as well. And so I'm curious 170 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: wherever you want to start with this, Like how are 171 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 3: you thinking about designing these virtual experiences? 172 00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,839 Speaker 1: So maybe if I break this up, because I think 173 00:09:57,880 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: it's actually important that there there's a difference between teaching, facilitating, 174 00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 1: and pure delivery. And I think the most important words 175 00:10:08,360 --> 00:10:11,959 Speaker 1: you use is design, which I think I don't think 176 00:10:12,080 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 1: mean how things look, but how you design an experience 177 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,080 Speaker 1: the thought people would put into you know, in a 178 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: live event, from the lighting to the stage set to 179 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 1: the temperature in the room, to the music, to how 180 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:33,720 Speaker 1: everyone feels, right, Like, I feel like everyone got slightly 181 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:36,560 Speaker 1: obsessed with their zoom backdrops and then that was about it, 182 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 1: you know, And I'm guilty. But everyone has a fig 183 00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:41,439 Speaker 1: leaf plant in the background and a pile of books, right. 184 00:10:45,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 2: With big leaf plants. 185 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: That's the business to be in, right, So teaching, let's 186 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:51,840 Speaker 1: started teaching. 187 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 2: Just to give you the context. So I have eighty students. 188 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,280 Speaker 2: They were all. 189 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 1: Told pretty quickly they had to go home. They didn't 190 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: even pack, They left their dorms, they left their you know, 191 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,920 Speaker 1: so many of them had families here. They jumped on 192 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,320 Speaker 1: planes all over the world right in the middle of 193 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 1: their graduate degrees. So I mainly have MBAs, and they 194 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 1: were all in different time zones. The way we teach 195 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:22,000 Speaker 1: at Oxford, we teach in three hour and fifteen minute blocks. 196 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:25,520 Speaker 3: That's really precise. In the. 197 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: It's really long, and you know, the only well, the 198 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 1: only way I can teach in the classroom that way 199 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,440 Speaker 1: is is highly experiential, right, like I read people's faces. 200 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: We play what I call tennis in the classroom, not 201 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: physically with balls, but with ideas. There is room for 202 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 1: silence and reflection. And I had forty eight hours because 203 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 1: I was the first course to go online. 204 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: So you figure out how I was going to do this. 205 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,560 Speaker 2: And my first react was, well, honestly shit. 206 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 1: And then my second reaction was how am I going 207 00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: to keep the kids out of the room so to 208 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,400 Speaker 1: create that space? And then I should shorten the classes 209 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: like they wore my knee jerk reactions. And I always say, 210 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, you sort of have to let that what 211 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: I described the emotional wish to happen and not react 212 00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,959 Speaker 1: to it and then come up with a plan. And 213 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,439 Speaker 1: I decided that I wasn't going to try to replicate. 214 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: I was going to reinvent, and that I was going 215 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 1: to think about time, I was going to think about content. 216 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: I was going to think about interactions completely differently. And 217 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: you know, the first thing was practical, right, So when 218 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 1: you join these platforms, and I think I've been on 219 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:51,680 Speaker 1: like seven different platforms right now being asked to, you know, 220 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:54,679 Speaker 1: go from Zoom to blue Jeans to whatever it is, 221 00:12:55,080 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 1: it's like getting in a new car and you know, 222 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 1: you know how to drive, Like where where's a gift 223 00:13:01,559 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: it where's oh, there's no key, it's a switch. And 224 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: the first thing I say is, before you even teach 225 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,720 Speaker 1: or you deliver it, how to use all the tools 226 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: has to be completely intuitive because you're trying to manage delivery, 227 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:19,560 Speaker 1: you're trying to manage people and their experience, and then 228 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: all the tools as well. So me and my team 229 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: we spent ages like immersing ourselves, testing each other, doing 230 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,520 Speaker 1: live runs, testing polls, breakout rooms, so that by the 231 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 1: time I got to delivery, I could I didn't need 232 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: to think, oh, how do I share screen? 233 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:38,360 Speaker 2: How do I launch this? So that was a very 234 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: practical thing. 235 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: The thing that I if I had to think of 236 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,920 Speaker 1: three things, so I've probably done now over eighty hours, 237 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: I think. 238 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 3: Of, wow, it's a lot. 239 00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: If I have to think of my top three learnings, 240 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: and we can go into any one of these. The 241 00:13:55,440 --> 00:14:02,400 Speaker 1: first is how do you create space for learning? What 242 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: I mean by that is that I've experienced this when 243 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:09,959 Speaker 1: I've been watching cultural programming, amazing cultural programming, whether it's 244 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: coming at the Lincoln Center or whether I've been watching 245 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,720 Speaker 1: webinars in a virtual setting. You tend to have this 246 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:18,319 Speaker 1: very like one way direct thing like I'm going to 247 00:14:18,360 --> 00:14:20,720 Speaker 1: talk at you and then you're going to answer a 248 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: few questions, which is still. 249 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 2: Really one way. 250 00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:26,239 Speaker 1: So how do you create the space and the permission 251 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:31,920 Speaker 1: for people to look down and to think, because looking 252 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: directly at someone, no one does that in a conversation. 253 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 1: It's a very unhealthy eye lock. So giving people permission 254 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: to say, you know what, I don't care if you 255 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: don't look at me for the next three hours. I'd 256 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: love you to have your screen on, but that's not 257 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: an expectation. Or I play a song. So music has 258 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,360 Speaker 1: become a really important part of my class, where you know, 259 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 1: if I want them to think about a point for 260 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 1: three minutes, we all sat there silence for three minutes. 261 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 2: It would feel really awkward. 262 00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: But a three minute song gives everyone that kind of 263 00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:10,720 Speaker 1: structure and permission to think and look down. So how 264 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: do you give permission to people to think? And how 265 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,880 Speaker 1: can you use signals? For me, it's music to do that. 266 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: The second is participation. So I think one of the 267 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 1: worrying things about virtual settings is it amplifies the extroverts 268 00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,080 Speaker 1: and it really pushes out the introverts. 269 00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 2: It took me to class too to realize why. 270 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: I was seeing all the same students on the screen, 271 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:41,800 Speaker 1: because you know, if you've got eighty students, you're never 272 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: going to see them on the homescreen. I was like, 273 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,400 Speaker 1: why do I always see the same students, And of 274 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:47,160 Speaker 1: course it's because they're the first one to put their 275 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:50,119 Speaker 1: videos on and they're the first ones to speak or interact, 276 00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: and so the algorithm puts them higher up. So I 277 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 1: realized by class three there are about thirty students I 278 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: didn't even know they were in the class, So I 279 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:03,760 Speaker 1: conscious lee had to go through to my four screen 280 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: and call on them and give them a voice. So 281 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: being very aware in large group settings of the people 282 00:16:15,760 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: who are silenced quite literally by the algorithm and who 283 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: you were going to see, I think was the second 284 00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: really big insight. 285 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: And then the. 286 00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: Third is feeling like you can still let go. So 287 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: I feel like what works for me in the classroom 288 00:16:35,200 --> 00:16:38,040 Speaker 1: on stage is I have a plan, but I let 289 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: go and I let the audience or the class go 290 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:46,560 Speaker 1: where they want to go. And I think you need 291 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:49,720 Speaker 1: more confidence in virtual settings to do that. But if 292 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: people take it in an interesting direction, being very clear 293 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: to people you are now handing over the reins you 294 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: need to do in a virtual setting, I found you 295 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,200 Speaker 1: have to signal very clear, Tyler, Like, that's really interesting. 296 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 2: Could you talk about that for a few minutes. So 297 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 2: I'm now handing the class over to you. 298 00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: So they're really the three things is how do you 299 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:16,679 Speaker 1: create space for insight and reflection, how do you make 300 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: sure the extraverts don't amplify out the voices? And then 301 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 1: how do you when you're handing over and letting go, 302 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: how do you. 303 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 2: Really clearly signal that. I could go on and. 304 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 1: On and on, but they are the three things in 305 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,240 Speaker 1: the teaching context that have been key, and then in 306 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: the presenting context it's completely different. 307 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,879 Speaker 3: Again. I want to maybe like go into the presenting 308 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 3: context because I feel like there would be lots of 309 00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 3: listeners that, you know, having to do presentations with, you know, 310 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,359 Speaker 3: whether that be you know, possibly not as professional keynote speakers, 311 00:17:50,359 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 3: but certainly presenting information or ideas or strategies to their 312 00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,680 Speaker 3: team or their organizations. So talk me throughout your thinking 313 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 3: about presentations the virtual world. 314 00:18:02,280 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, to be fair, it's up and down. 315 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 1: So some I'm finally quite enjoyable, Like when there is 316 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:17,439 Speaker 1: an element of interaction. It is very hard to just 317 00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:20,920 Speaker 1: deliver a keynote, particularly in some of these platforms because 318 00:18:20,920 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: of GDPR, you can't see an audience. So the first 319 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 1: thing I'd say is not precious, but be particular about 320 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: your environment. If you need to see people, you have 321 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,159 Speaker 1: to figure out a way to see people otherwise how 322 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:36,879 Speaker 1: you're going to create that energy and connection. The number 323 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:41,440 Speaker 1: of times I've gone on and asked the organizers, can 324 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: I see the audience view? Because the present of you 325 00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: or the speaker of you is different from what your 326 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: audience sees. So even going through that exercise and going, oh, 327 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: I see they see me like that big, like a stamp, 328 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: and then they see the presentation really big, it really 329 00:18:58,480 --> 00:19:01,679 Speaker 1: helps you get in the mindset and also saying actually, 330 00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: I'd rather be bigger than the presentation or whatever it is, 331 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,480 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. Like you're designing right, You're 332 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 1: giving them instructions for the. 333 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:11,120 Speaker 2: Very best possible setup, and. 334 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:16,159 Speaker 1: Then when it comes to presenting, I think there is 335 00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,480 Speaker 1: an instinct to jump into presenting and that we sort 336 00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:26,800 Speaker 1: of throw away those moments where you know, I think 337 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Speaker 1: really good presenters. 338 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,680 Speaker 2: They settle the audience, right. So if you watch a 339 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 2: really good. 340 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:35,080 Speaker 1: Presenter, you go, oh, yeah, I feel really comfortable with 341 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: this person or I'm in safe hands or you've already 342 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: got a feeling, right, like you've been transported to a 343 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 1: different place. They pull you in to the feeling of 344 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,240 Speaker 1: where they want to take you, and you can do 345 00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: that in a virtual environment, right, so don't jump hello. 346 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,480 Speaker 1: My name is Rochard Rachel Botsman. I'm an author and 347 00:19:56,480 --> 00:20:00,159 Speaker 1: trust forell at Oxford University. Right, that's presentation mode. To 348 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,160 Speaker 1: share my screen and we are going to talk about 349 00:20:02,160 --> 00:20:04,280 Speaker 1: trust and I'm going to go through three points and 350 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 1: then there'll be a Q and a Right now, I'm 351 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 1: amping it up, but that's what we do, right, And 352 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: we tend to talk really loudly and quickly for the 353 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:18,199 Speaker 1: first So settling people in like this takes time, and 354 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: you can do it online. And even sitting there smiling 355 00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:26,360 Speaker 1: at people and not speaking can be really powerful. Asking 356 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,359 Speaker 1: a few people where they are in the world, thinking 357 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: about the feeling you want to create. So do you 358 00:20:31,720 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: want a lot of energy? Do you want calmness? Do 359 00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,320 Speaker 1: you want whatever it is? What's the feeling? So I 360 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: think that's really key. And then when you're in presenting mode, 361 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,280 Speaker 1: you know you don't have your body and you don't 362 00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:53,560 Speaker 1: have the usual props, So how you use your voice 363 00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 1: and how you use pauses and intonation becomes even more important. 364 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:04,920 Speaker 1: So it's like imagining that you've got your hands tied 365 00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:10,359 Speaker 1: behind your back and that really your expression has to 366 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: come from your chest, not your throat. So I think 367 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 1: also being very aware of where you're speaking from still 368 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: really applies in a in a virtual setting. I could 369 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: go on, but I'll stop there because this is this 370 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:25,840 Speaker 1: is fantastic. 371 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:28,480 Speaker 3: I want to delve in. I'm really interested in the 372 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 3: idea of settling people in and I want to know, 373 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,480 Speaker 3: you know, in that first minute or two, like, what 374 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 3: are some of the strategies that you've been using to 375 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:42,640 Speaker 3: create certain moods and making people feel settled. 376 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 1: It's so different so to a completely new audience, I 377 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: think you have to be a bit careful about sharing 378 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,720 Speaker 1: a highly personal story that you think is funny. But 379 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you're at home anyway, right, So 380 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,400 Speaker 1: that was a bit intimate, so, you know, so very 381 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 1: safe ways. 382 00:22:01,880 --> 00:22:03,080 Speaker 2: I will run a pole. 383 00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:07,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes, So I'll run a pole that is really about 384 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 1: the way people are feeling. So if it's something on 385 00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: you know a lot of people are worried about what 386 00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 1: to say. 387 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: How do you communicate as a leader or a brand. 388 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,960 Speaker 1: I'll ask a question like, are you most worried that 389 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,400 Speaker 1: something you say will be irrelevant, inauthentic or insensitive? 390 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,000 Speaker 2: And then they vote and. 391 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:29,680 Speaker 1: It's an amazing way to get a read on the group. Right, 392 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,040 Speaker 1: so you can go, Wow, for eighty percent of you, 393 00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: it's about insensitivity, and then suddenly it's become about them, right. 394 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: And then if it's a smaller setting, you can ask people. 395 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,600 Speaker 1: So you could say, anyone who rotes insensitivity, could you 396 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: just share why you pick that above the other two? 397 00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 1: And then already they're interacting with you, right, so you've 398 00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:54,200 Speaker 1: got out of that one way mode. So the pole 399 00:22:55,000 --> 00:23:00,320 Speaker 1: is a brilliant tool, but making it quite personal and 400 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,120 Speaker 1: about them, I found is a really good kickoff tool. 401 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:06,560 Speaker 2: I think it's something. 402 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 1: The hardest one is when something dramatic or I don't 403 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:17,919 Speaker 1: even write that something big has happened in the world 404 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:19,040 Speaker 1: that day. 405 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 2: How do you acknowledge that. 406 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:25,199 Speaker 1: Without them going, oh God, we're gonna have them you know, 407 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:27,760 Speaker 1: like it's going to be another conversation. So you want 408 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,199 Speaker 1: to feel like you're creating space, but you have to 409 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:34,240 Speaker 1: nod to it. So I think sometimes what I do is, 410 00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: rather than talk about say Cummings or Floyd or I'll 411 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,760 Speaker 1: say like or acknowledge how I feel, so I acknowledge 412 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:51,080 Speaker 1: the feelings. So I think that's that's really tricky. 413 00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:53,720 Speaker 2: With audiences where I know them or the host knows 414 00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 2: me really well. I might share. 415 00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 1: A story that's not funny, but there is is an 416 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: element of vulnerability, so I might I shared a lot 417 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,560 Speaker 1: of stories about homeschooling, and you have to be careful 418 00:24:09,560 --> 00:24:11,920 Speaker 1: with that one as well, right, because you're not trying 419 00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,520 Speaker 1: to divide an audience. I've seen a lot of well, 420 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:17,920 Speaker 1: I'm a parent and I'm you know, it's okay you 421 00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,000 Speaker 1: being alone, and you have to be carefully. 422 00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 2: You're not doing that with your story. 423 00:24:22,720 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: What you're saying is, you know, Sorr a terretory of 424 00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 1: my my son decided that. 425 00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 2: The school should pay me to teach him. And then. 426 00:24:33,200 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: I said, oh, my son has Aloys said, ask me 427 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: if the school should are paying me to teach him? 428 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: And then I told him that I was paying the 429 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,360 Speaker 1: school still, which he thought was rather strange. So he 430 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:46,200 Speaker 1: told me he'd pay me a pound a day. 431 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 2: So that's my worth everyone, right, That's you're going to 432 00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:50,960 Speaker 2: get someone who's worth a pound a day. 433 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,400 Speaker 1: Now it's kind of funny, right, But what you're doing 434 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:59,040 Speaker 1: is you're creating a vulnerability signal, and that's one of 435 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,360 Speaker 1: the most powerful things you can do without being emotionally flooded. 436 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:07,719 Speaker 1: So I think this is really important that you are 437 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 1: still presenting. You are still leading this audience somewhere, and 438 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,879 Speaker 1: they need to feel like you're in control. 439 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 2: So I've heard a really bad day. I hate my children, 440 00:25:18,560 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 2: you know, I don't we going to get through this far. 441 00:25:21,040 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 2: I'm really pleased to be with you. Yeah, I'm exaggerating, but. 442 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: I am seeing all of this right, Like, so you 443 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 1: have to be in control, but you can and you 444 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: should signal vulnerability and that's a really powerful connector. So 445 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: there's some pretty obvious ones, but they are incredibly effective. 446 00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 3: I love those examples. They're great and just how kind 447 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 3: of concrete they are. I'm interested in pole questions. I 448 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,840 Speaker 3: think that's such as such an interesting example that you give, 449 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: and I can imagine that it's it's actually very interesting 450 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 3: to see the ends as opposed to a pole question 451 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 3: that you kind of know what to expect, and I 452 00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,159 Speaker 3: want to know for you, like, because I think a 453 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 3: lot of people use pole questions, but they don't use 454 00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,520 Speaker 3: them in a particularly good way or thoughtful way. So 455 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 3: for you, how do you go about crafting a good 456 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:14,959 Speaker 3: poll question? 457 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 2: That's a good question itself. 458 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: So yeah, with pole questions, it's either something where like 459 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,040 Speaker 1: are you really asking me everyone to comment on Trump? 460 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,119 Speaker 1: Or something like where it's uncomfortable right because it's not 461 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 1: an appropriate question, so avoid those, or it's not open 462 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,920 Speaker 1: ended so you know they know the answer, right, So 463 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: I think the first thing is are you genuinely interested 464 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,080 Speaker 1: in the answer? Is the first limus test. Are you 465 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: going to be surprised how people respond? So I always 466 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 1: think about that, and then somehow you're trying to engage 467 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,040 Speaker 1: heart and head, right, So it's if it takes them. 468 00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: If they're immediately respond there's probably something slightly off in 469 00:26:57,359 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: the question, but if you're asking them so so the 470 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,920 Speaker 1: communications one is really interesting, right because they probably feel 471 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 1: all of those things, but you're asking them to pick 472 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:10,640 Speaker 1: their primary fear, like what are they most frightened off? 473 00:27:10,760 --> 00:27:14,440 Speaker 2: So it creates a delay, So I think that's really 474 00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 2: important in the design of the question. 475 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,439 Speaker 1: And then the most important thing is that the question 476 00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: leads you somewhere. So the question, the pole can't just 477 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: be like a warm up exercise. It's your bridge or 478 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:33,359 Speaker 1: it's just spring into your content. So oh, that's really 479 00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: so if it's an internal meeting and you've run a 480 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 1: pole and something comes up, you're using it as stimulus 481 00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:45,359 Speaker 1: or insight and then you go from there is really important. 482 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 3: What I'm curious is like, I guess it sets a 483 00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:51,480 Speaker 3: really good picture for how you're starting your presentations, and 484 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 3: I feel like I can get this really clear idea 485 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,600 Speaker 3: of what the first few minutes would be like if 486 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,680 Speaker 3: I was in one of your virtual audiences. I now 487 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,359 Speaker 3: want to look at, well, what about the body of 488 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,320 Speaker 3: the presentation? So I remember when we spoke two years ago. 489 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 3: I was fascinated to hear about all the work and 490 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,520 Speaker 3: the discipline that goes into you crafting your keynotes and 491 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 3: kind of to probably do a really bad kind of 492 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 3: job of summarizing it, or almost like the way I 493 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,720 Speaker 3: remember it from when we spoke is it's almost like 494 00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 3: you've got all these little modules, and then each of 495 00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,080 Speaker 3: the modules goes in folders and it's all like actually 496 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 3: very organized, and then you'll kind of think about almost 497 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:31,480 Speaker 3: like what are the building blocks in terms of the 498 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 3: modules to kind of craft the message that you think 499 00:28:34,840 --> 00:28:37,679 Speaker 3: is going to serve the audience best in terms of 500 00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 3: the outcomes that you're there to deliver. And I guess 501 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,440 Speaker 3: the you know the challenge, and you know, something I 502 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,720 Speaker 3: think about, like in terms of delivering keynotes in the 503 00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,800 Speaker 3: virtual world is that it's very easy. And what I 504 00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 3: see a lot of presenters do is to just go 505 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 3: into one way communication mode, like maybe they've done a 506 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 3: great setup and they've actually thought about what their first 507 00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,600 Speaker 3: impression is going to be, but then they almost go 508 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,560 Speaker 3: into lecture mode, you know, and like we know from 509 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 3: research into the brain and how the brain process is information, 510 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,400 Speaker 3: like it just it gets bored after ten minutes in 511 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760 Speaker 3: one way communication and then I feel like you've got, 512 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:14,360 Speaker 3: you know, people just tokenistically using things like polls, but 513 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 3: not in a very thoughtful way. And I'm curious as 514 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 3: to what are some of the methods that you've been 515 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:22,720 Speaker 3: thinking about and that have been working really well for 516 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,760 Speaker 3: you to kind of I guess almost like for me, 517 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,400 Speaker 3: I think about it as almost feeling like a conversation 518 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:33,920 Speaker 3: with the audience, like something I've loved about virtual keynotes, 519 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 3: And I've got to say, like I'm absolutely loving the 520 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: virtual keynote world is that I can have the chat 521 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 3: box open for the whole keynote, and like, normally you 522 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 3: have no idea what your audience are thinking other than 523 00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,920 Speaker 3: the very you know, like that the verbals and the 524 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,320 Speaker 3: nonverbals that you're kind of observing in the room. But 525 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,240 Speaker 3: I just encourage people to just write to me on 526 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:54,760 Speaker 3: chat if something kind of that I say triggered something 527 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 3: in them, and I think that it will serve the 528 00:29:57,240 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 3: group with me kind of incorporating that in. I'll just 529 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 3: incorporate that in. And it feels kind of nice to 530 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,680 Speaker 3: be hearing the innlogue in a monologue from the audience 531 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:09,880 Speaker 3: and then incorporating that into whatever I'm you know, kind 532 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 3: of saying or riffing on. So, yeah, tell me about 533 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,440 Speaker 3: like what's been working for you. 534 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,760 Speaker 1: That's it's really interesting you like the chat because I 535 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,960 Speaker 1: so this is I don't like the chat, but I 536 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:27,720 Speaker 1: never ever turn the chat off. I think this is 537 00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,800 Speaker 1: a learning. If you turn chat off, people will find 538 00:30:29,840 --> 00:30:34,360 Speaker 1: another channel. So, but you can, this is actually really important. 539 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 2: You can. 540 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: You should create a culture, You should create values and norms. 541 00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: So this is less an online presenting, but I think 542 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:45,800 Speaker 1: it really applies to internal cultures. You know, be how 543 00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: do you want people to use that chat? So you 544 00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,680 Speaker 1: like people asking you questions. I like people to raise 545 00:30:51,720 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: their hands to use the blue icon right, so that 546 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: I can time it and I know when I want 547 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,640 Speaker 1: to call on them. I guess the main body of 548 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:05,840 Speaker 1: the content. My system hasn't changed, so I still have 549 00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:12,680 Speaker 1: modules and sets and then little folders. The funny thing, 550 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:15,800 Speaker 1: the strange thing is I have not been productive in 551 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,560 Speaker 1: my writing, but I have been. 552 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:18,720 Speaker 2: I would say. 553 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,120 Speaker 1: Content is flowing out of me in terms of design 554 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 1: and thinking about concepts like risk and transparency and distrust. 555 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,040 Speaker 1: They've been in my work for a long time, but 556 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 1: the new stuff that is bubbling up. So the poor 557 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 1: designer I work with, she's like. 558 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,040 Speaker 2: Could you just stop? Stop? 559 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:45,960 Speaker 1: So I still go like, you know, right, So we've 560 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,920 Speaker 1: got an hour, and I want to make sure out 561 00:31:48,960 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: of that hour, you know, about half is us having conversation. 562 00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,560 Speaker 1: So what do I do with the content pieces? So 563 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,800 Speaker 1: I think even so one of the things I do, 564 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,560 Speaker 1: I just realized I can't draw it because it's audio, right, 565 00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: is I draw a line and then the line has 566 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: an hour on it, and then each end has a 567 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: book end. This is how I design an hour session 568 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: stopped me. This is an interesting This is the first 569 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,120 Speaker 1: five minutes I call settling in right, So some people 570 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:23,360 Speaker 1: will call that housekeeping, but that's a horrible way because 571 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: it's actually a really important part of the experience. So 572 00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:30,920 Speaker 1: who's going to introduce me? Are they going to have 573 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,520 Speaker 1: a holding slide? Or am I do I need a 574 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: holding slide? What's the first thing people are going to see? 575 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:40,280 Speaker 1: So those first five minutes are very very detailed. How's 576 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,240 Speaker 1: the person going to hand over to me all that stuff? 577 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:49,760 Speaker 1: And then I think in usually ten to fifteen minute blocks, 578 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,120 Speaker 1: so fifteen minutes actually quite long. 579 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,320 Speaker 2: So ten minutes, what is a big question. 580 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 1: Or what is a core idea that I want them 581 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 1: to take away from this? 582 00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:06,360 Speaker 2: Ten minutes and that's what we're focus on. And then 583 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,000 Speaker 2: I'll land in some way. 584 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,240 Speaker 1: So the landing might be an opportunity to ask questions. 585 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,080 Speaker 1: The landing might be getting them to do some kind 586 00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:21,440 Speaker 1: of insight exercise. So I've now given you some ideas 587 00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:21,880 Speaker 1: around this. 588 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 2: How does that apply to your role? 589 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:26,640 Speaker 1: All right, let's take a couple of minutes to think 590 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,160 Speaker 1: about that, and then I think very carefully about how 591 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,560 Speaker 1: do I segue into the next section right. 592 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 2: So now if you imagine on our line, we've got 593 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:35,920 Speaker 2: like five minutes. 594 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:42,080 Speaker 1: Settling in ten minutes interaction zone bridge, next section, bridge, 595 00:33:42,480 --> 00:33:46,719 Speaker 1: next section, and then five minutes of close, and then 596 00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 1: the five minutes of close. You know you want to 597 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:51,640 Speaker 1: avoid that rush at the end. 598 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:55,240 Speaker 2: Thanks everyone, there's been great. I've run out of time. 599 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 2: Oh everyone, press leave. 600 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:03,239 Speaker 1: So you're wrapping it up and again you're wrapping up 601 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: the feeling, and so I you know, I do an 602 00:34:06,360 --> 00:34:10,719 Speaker 1: exercise called big Picture little Deed where I get people 603 00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,560 Speaker 1: to think about what's the thing that has changed your 604 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:15,800 Speaker 1: perspective on something? 605 00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:17,359 Speaker 2: What do you see? 606 00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: Maybe you see something differently, but you're not sure what 607 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,239 Speaker 1: you're going to do with it right now. And then 608 00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:23,840 Speaker 1: your little deed is something practical you can put into 609 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: action tomorrow. And then when I can, I ask people 610 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,120 Speaker 1: to share what those things are. So I'm still really 611 00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:32,680 Speaker 1: geeky in that. 612 00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:35,359 Speaker 2: I think around. 613 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,840 Speaker 1: Blocks and modules, and then I can And the wonderful 614 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:40,839 Speaker 1: thing then is I can use my same system right 615 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,680 Speaker 1: as I use in public speaking. Is I can pull 616 00:34:43,840 --> 00:34:47,360 Speaker 1: that set of content, but you need less slides. 617 00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,840 Speaker 2: You need really. 618 00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:55,160 Speaker 1: Bold slides, and they are a backdrop. They are not 619 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,279 Speaker 1: a crutch, which is really important. Still, they are not 620 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,839 Speaker 1: the thing people should be focusing on. 621 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 3: Cay, you talk about the n five minutes, I want 622 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,879 Speaker 3: to dig in there, so big picture, little deed. I 623 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,080 Speaker 3: love that idea. What else are you thinking about with 624 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:11,720 Speaker 3: that final five minutes? 625 00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,799 Speaker 1: Usually it's what I'm trying to create is some kind 626 00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,800 Speaker 1: of shift, if that makes sense. So you know this saying, 627 00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm sure you've heard that you're either a preacher or 628 00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:26,600 Speaker 1: a teacher. You know, some speakers are really good preachers. 629 00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: Simon Sinek is a preacher. Brenne Brown is a preacher. 630 00:35:30,239 --> 00:35:33,120 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Gilbert is a preacher. And that isn't What they 631 00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: do is amazing. 632 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,000 Speaker 2: They will emotionally move you to the point of tears. 633 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,000 Speaker 2: I can't do that like I can't. 634 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:48,160 Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever made an audience cry. It's 635 00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 1: not who I am, but I am a teacher, and 636 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:57,239 Speaker 1: so I can move people, but more in the sense of, 637 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: oh I see that differently now, or I can't think 638 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 1: about that in the same way, or that's really in 639 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:08,080 Speaker 1: my head, and so I think it's successful. Session is 640 00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: when you hear afterwards. I went away and then I 641 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,080 Speaker 1: shared that with my team or my god, why had 642 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:18,319 Speaker 1: I never thought of that? So you know that's why 643 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 1: sort of selfishly, the big picture little deed is really 644 00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: useful because it's a feedback tool, right, So you're like, wow, 645 00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:28,560 Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't think my point on consistency was 646 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: a big point, but this seems to be a big point. 647 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: Why And then that becomes So I did a session 648 00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: the other day where I was talking about the difference 649 00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 1: between clarity and transparency, and at the end everyone was 650 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: talking about it, and I was like, I thought this 651 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: was really obvious. But then you've got stimulus, right, and 652 00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:50,960 Speaker 1: then you're really excited because then you're like, hey, I'll 653 00:36:50,960 --> 00:36:54,440 Speaker 1: take something work there and I'm going to take that 654 00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: into my next session. And this is really important actually, 655 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,080 Speaker 1: that kick the energy you have to feel like you're discovering, 656 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: you know, like that you're exploring and that you're learning, 657 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:11,000 Speaker 1: and that every presentation you're getting better and you're giving 658 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: that audience more. 659 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,239 Speaker 3: That's so cool. That's so cool. Like I'm looking at 660 00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 3: the time and I'm like, where where did. 661 00:37:18,120 --> 00:37:18,680 Speaker 2: This hour go? 662 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 3: I've got no idea. 663 00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: I've like ten minutes in me trying to fix the microphone. 664 00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 3: There was there was that, but like I've just I 665 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:29,480 Speaker 3: just I'm so enjoyed this, like in terms of just 666 00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,000 Speaker 3: going into the detail around how you're thinking about things 667 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:33,880 Speaker 3: and everybody this is unexpected. I thought, oh, let's have 668 00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 3: a chat about how your ways of work of change, 669 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 3: which are you know, very fascinating two years ago, but 670 00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 3: this is I've just loved this and I personally have 671 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,319 Speaker 3: picked up a lot of ideas selfishly that that I 672 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:48,160 Speaker 3: think I'm going to apply to how how I'm designing 673 00:37:48,800 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 3: virtual experiences. I just I've loved hearing about this, and 674 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,160 Speaker 3: I love the detail that you go into and just 675 00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:57,440 Speaker 3: how thoughtful you are. And look, my my final question 676 00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 3: for you is how, like, for people that want to 677 00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:02,640 Speaker 3: learn more about what you're doing and consume the thoughts 678 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:05,040 Speaker 3: that you're putting into the world, where is the best 679 00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 3: place for people to be doing that and accessing that. 680 00:38:08,960 --> 00:38:15,000 Speaker 1: So I am writing a bi weekly newsletter called Rethink, 681 00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: and it's pretty in depth I think for a newsletter. 682 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:24,000 Speaker 1: It's on LinkedIn, and it's really trying to take a 683 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,320 Speaker 1: topic a fortnight that is coming up for people and 684 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:31,680 Speaker 1: I don't want to say getting beyond the narrative, but 685 00:38:33,160 --> 00:38:36,879 Speaker 1: so I've written one this week on what I call 686 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: trust states, So how do you how you figure out 687 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:46,440 Speaker 1: what to say really relates to people's relationship to uncertainty 688 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: and the trust state they're in, and how you pick 689 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:53,560 Speaker 1: up on those signals I think is really important in. 690 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:54,440 Speaker 2: A virtual environment. 691 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,719 Speaker 1: So that's that's the best place to really dive into 692 00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:58,280 Speaker 1: the thinking. 693 00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 2: And I'm actually working on I'm working on two things. 694 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: One is this Google doc that goes from day one 695 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:15,719 Speaker 1: of teaching online, so everything from like breakout rooms, Like 696 00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,960 Speaker 1: everything we learned about breakout rooms. 697 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 2: You know that you assign a discussion. 698 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 1: Leader, Well duh, right, like, but we didn't think of that, 699 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: so people was. 700 00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 2: Leaning in the discussion right when you can control. 701 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:31,640 Speaker 1: That, you could put a name in So Google dot 702 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:35,080 Speaker 1: that's like literally everything that we learn and then and 703 00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:36,600 Speaker 1: I just want to give it to people. And then 704 00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:41,040 Speaker 1: I'm working on a virtual design doc, so how you 705 00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:44,920 Speaker 1: design these experiences? Because I realized, you know, these tools 706 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,839 Speaker 1: where mapping tools of how do you map an hour? 707 00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: How do you map three hours? Might be useful to 708 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:53,680 Speaker 1: other people. So hopefully they'll be available in the next 709 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: couple of weeks. 710 00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 2: If they can help. 711 00:39:57,280 --> 00:40:01,520 Speaker 3: Amazing, amazing, Well we'll probably be releasing this episode probably 712 00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 3: in two or three weeks. I'll chase you for those 713 00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:07,319 Speaker 3: links because they sound like they are going to be 714 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:10,280 Speaker 3: invaluable resources for people. 715 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 2: Well, you probably had it. Did you hear the knock 716 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:17,000 Speaker 2: in the middle? I'm quite proud of my did you 717 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,399 Speaker 2: hear it? 718 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:18,279 Speaker 3: No? I didn't. 719 00:40:18,640 --> 00:40:19,279 Speaker 2: Oh, so. 720 00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,840 Speaker 1: My kids, right, they invented all these like little things. 721 00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,400 Speaker 1: So they made a sign when they really couldn't come in, 722 00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,320 Speaker 1: which is up right now. And then if they really 723 00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,200 Speaker 1: need something when the sign is up because no one 724 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,879 Speaker 1: else is home, they have to knock three times, right, 725 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,680 Speaker 1: and then if I don't answer, it means I really 726 00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:40,160 Speaker 1: can't answer them. So if it's life or death, they 727 00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:41,840 Speaker 1: have to knock another three times. 728 00:40:42,680 --> 00:40:44,920 Speaker 2: And that he only knocked three times and went away. 729 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,480 Speaker 2: So I was like, well, I'm so proud of him. 730 00:40:47,480 --> 00:40:48,359 Speaker 2: He's not he's not. 731 00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:52,120 Speaker 1: Dying, so he's figured it out. It's probably hungry or something, 732 00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: you know, that's life a lockdown, right, not three times? 733 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:02,399 Speaker 1: And if you're really, really, really dying, not another three 734 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:06,520 Speaker 1: times and not come out. So do you want to 735 00:41:06,560 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 1: listen on Parenting now? 736 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:17,160 Speaker 3: Oh gosh, Rachel, it's been so great having you on again. 737 00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,880 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for sharing all those brilliant insights. 738 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,719 Speaker 2: Thank you a pound a day. 739 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:29,279 Speaker 3: Rachel definitely got our money's worth today. Take care, Thanks 740 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,760 Speaker 3: so much. Hello there, That is it for today's show. 741 00:41:33,280 --> 00:41:34,000 Speaker 2: If you know. 742 00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 3: Someone that could benefit from some of these really cool 743 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 3: tips that Rachel shared, why not share this episode with people. 744 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 3: There's a little share icon wherever you listen to this podcast, 745 00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:48,040 Speaker 3: and all you have to do is get that and 746 00:41:48,200 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 3: send it to whoever you think could benefit. And as always, 747 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:53,799 Speaker 3: if you're enjoying how I work, I love it if 748 00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,040 Speaker 3: you could take some time, just a few seconds, to 749 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:58,879 Speaker 3: leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen 750 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,960 Speaker 3: to this podcast. So that is it for today and 751 00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:02,120 Speaker 3: I'll see you next time.