WEBVTT - Hey Hun: What an MLM Million Dollar Earner Wants You to Know (Part 2) 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:04.520 Hello, my name is Satasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:08.240 yor the Order Kerni Whaltbury and a waddery woman. And 0:00:08.320 --> 0:00:10.719 before we get started on She's on the Money podcast, 0:00:11.000 --> 0:00:13.880 I would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the 0:00:13.960 --> 0:00:17.599 land of which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, 0:00:18.079 --> 0:00:22.200 acknowledging the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:26.880 through as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:30.040 and the storytelling of you to make a difference for 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:34.120 today and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it. 0:00:34.280 --> 0:00:53.519 She's on the Money, She's on the Money. 0:00:57.280 --> 0:01:00.240 Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money. 0:01:00.080 --> 0:01:02.920 The podcast that's all about empowering you to make informed 0:01:02.960 --> 0:01:07.280 financial decisions, not emotional ones, and definitely not decisions based 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:12.120 on hehan messages in your DMS. I'm Victoria Devine, finance expert, 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:15.680 MLM exposer and the person who's here to help you 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.000 navigate all the sneaky traps designed to separate you from 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.479 your hard earned cash. Today is part two of our 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:26.160 very special episode. We are chatting to Emily Lynn Paulson, 0:01:26.440 --> 0:01:30.360 an actual unicorn million dollar earner in an MLM, if 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:32.679 you haven't listened to part one yet, where she gave 0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:35.440 us a very cheeky behind the scenes look at the 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:38.920 business side of MLM's hit pause my friend, right now, 0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.720 head back and give it a listen. Trust me, you're 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:45.040 going to want the full story. But if you've already listened, 0:01:45.360 --> 0:01:48.960 stick around today we are going deeper. We're diving into 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:52.760 the psychological tactics MLMs used to hook you, keep you, 0:01:53.120 --> 0:01:55.960 and then convince you that it's all your fault when 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.240 things go sideways. It's time to pull back the curtains 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:02.520 and get into the why behind the decisions people make 0:02:02.800 --> 0:02:04.640 when it comes to these schemes. 0:02:04.680 --> 0:02:06.720 So let's go. Let's flip on. 0:02:06.760 --> 0:02:09.320 Over to the psychology side of things, because I feel 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.560 like we're starting to delve into that, he said, She 0:02:12.720 --> 0:02:16.839 said emlms are designed to, I guess, make hitting that 0:02:17.120 --> 0:02:20.600 first rank basically effortless, like and then they jump up 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:22.200 and down and go, oh my god, you made it, 0:02:22.240 --> 0:02:24.600 like look how easy it is. This is so good, 0:02:24.639 --> 0:02:27.960 And you get that instant dopamine hit and it kind 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.600 of keeps you hooked. Can you remember what it felt 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:33.400 like when you hit your first milestone? So you decided 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:35.440 to sign up, and you were like, all right, I 0:02:35.440 --> 0:02:36.079 could do this. 0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:37.520 How did you feel? 0:02:37.800 --> 0:02:40.880 You know, it was kind of double edged because I 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:44.320 signed up, and then as soon as I signed up again, 0:02:44.560 --> 0:02:46.640 I was totally ignorant, didn't know what I was doing. 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:48.040 I kind of ran with it. I met with a 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.920 friend that night after I signed up, and I was like, hey, 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:53.520 I bought this skincare stuff, like I don't know what 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.400 I'm doing, and she's like, oh, I'll do it with you. 0:02:55.880 --> 0:02:58.320 So like she literally seemed like that first day, right, 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.160 And so the next there was a post on Facebook 0:03:02.240 --> 0:03:06.280 like outing me from my upline. You know, Emily signed up, 0:03:06.560 --> 0:03:10.760 she started her business, and she's already hit her first promotion, 0:03:11.480 --> 0:03:14.120 and so here I am like, like I felt a 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:17.640 little cringe that she put that out there without my permission. 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:20.960 And then I had all of these people, all reps 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:25.360 for the company, posting underneath like congratulations, congratulations, congratulations. All 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.840 these new friends, all these new followers. It's very intoxicating, right, 0:03:28.960 --> 0:03:31.640 It's like you said, it's that dopamine hit. And so 0:03:31.720 --> 0:03:34.400 it was like, oh, that was easy. I could do 0:03:34.520 --> 0:03:37.040 that again, Like I could do more of that. And 0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.760 then you start getting gifts. It's the love bombing just 0:03:39.920 --> 0:03:40.720 off the bat. 0:03:40.880 --> 0:03:44.360 It's actually insane because I don't think it's a sacred 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:47.080 If you follow me on my personal Instagram, you know 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:49.760 I've signed up to an MLM under a fake name, 0:03:49.800 --> 0:03:50.560 and I have been. 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:51.560 Doing that, and that happened to me. 0:03:51.680 --> 0:03:55.160 I hit my first one and I was mortified that 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.200 they're tagging me in the same One day, I'll share 0:03:58.240 --> 0:04:01.200 who I was and what I joined under. 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:02.960 But they fully love bomb you. 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:05.920 And you mentioned a lot in the book the intense 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:08.520 love bombing that happens when someone joins an MLM, and like, 0:04:08.560 --> 0:04:10.640 I guess that's a good example of it. You get 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.200 constant praise and attention and some validation, and that's really 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.919 sexy and we want more of that. How did that 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.719 level of affection impact you early on? And I guess 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.719 when did it start to feel a little bit less genuine? 0:04:23.920 --> 0:04:27.560 When at first it feels genuine because you know, the 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:30.400 person I joined with someone from high school. I wasn't 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:32.760 friends with her, we didn't know each other well. But 0:04:32.800 --> 0:04:35.120 then it was like, Okay, she's someone I know, she's 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.360 someone from my hometown. Like I kind of felt that 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:42.360 instant kinship. And then by proximity, you're spending a lot 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:45.200 of time, whether it's across the zoom screen or in 0:04:45.240 --> 0:04:47.160 a Facebook group, you're spending a lot of time in 0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:50.760 proximity with these people, more than you're probably spending with 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.279 people in your real life, you know. And you're really 0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:58.599 taught to share personal things and connect over personal things 0:04:58.680 --> 0:05:01.640 and how hard life is as mom and you know, 0:05:01.720 --> 0:05:05.480 blah blah blah. It's so it's kind of like trauma bonding. 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:08.680 Early, which is terrifying, and it's a genuine tactic that 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:10.400 they are using as trauma bonding. 0:05:10.560 --> 0:05:13.880 Yeah, yeah, And I think it also is by nature. 0:05:14.120 --> 0:05:16.120 MLMs are mostly women, you know, it's like eighty five 0:05:16.160 --> 0:05:21.640 to ninety percent women, and so women are more connected 0:05:21.800 --> 0:05:24.600 on an emotional level. And so when you already have 0:05:24.680 --> 0:05:28.400 that baked in to a financial transaction where people are 0:05:28.400 --> 0:05:30.280 making money off of you and you're making money off 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:35.080 of people, it's just it's going to be exploited. And 0:05:35.120 --> 0:05:37.240 so when you're used to getting all these this attention 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.640 and you're on these top ten lists and you're being 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:42.960 asked to speak and then maybe a new shiny penny 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:45.280 rolls around. Someone else comes in quick and makes their 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.080 first promotion and gets a lot of attention, like the 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:52.400 spotlight gets taken off of you, and and so there's 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:57.000 just automatic like clause coming out, there's automatic jealousy. You're 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:02.039 being ranked publicly among other people all of the talk, 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:04.640 You're being put on top ten lists by the company 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.120 by different team leaders all of the time. So it's 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.360 just kind of a breeding ground for hostility. 0:06:11.560 --> 0:06:13.760 Really, yeah, yah yak, Yeah. 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:17.760 And I guess this love bombing and we just touched 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:21.920 on trauma bonding. Those are actually two tactics that are 0:06:22.080 --> 0:06:27.000 used by cults to keep people engaged and involved and 0:06:27.040 --> 0:06:31.000 consistently feeling like their cult is their home. And you 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:33.880 have said before that an MLM is like a cult, 0:06:34.120 --> 0:06:36.200 Like I guess a lot of people say that. I 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:38.159 say that lots of people do. I want to know 0:06:38.920 --> 0:06:42.479 what is the most jaw dropping I guess culty behavior 0:06:42.520 --> 0:06:44.960 that you saw and how it kind of messed with 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:45.800 people's lives. 0:06:45.880 --> 0:06:48.520 I mean, I think the financial exploitation we've talked about. 0:06:48.520 --> 0:06:51.320 There's a lot of financial exploitation, but you know, and 0:06:51.360 --> 0:06:55.240 like the emotional exploitation with friendship love bombing, I think 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.760 the worst, in my opinion is the like you touched 0:06:59.760 --> 0:07:04.159 on a little bit the spiritual manipulation religious manipulation, and I, 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:08.160 thankfully I wasn't in a lot of that. Thankfully my upline. 0:07:08.200 --> 0:07:12.240 You know, nobody was super religious in my team, but 0:07:12.640 --> 0:07:15.720 I knew people, you know, crossline or whatever, who I 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:20.720 did you know, events with, who were very manipulated, who 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:23.960 were like forced to go to a different church, they 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.760 had to pray before events. And so it throws in 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:30.840 this extra layer of not only are you not succeeding 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:32.960 because you're not working hard enough, but you're also not 0:07:33.480 --> 0:07:37.920 devoted enough to Jesus or you know, you're not thankful enough, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:41.080 you're grateful enough to God. And that's I think really 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:42.440 best up in a lot of ways. 0:07:42.680 --> 0:07:44.960 Yeah, and that's what kind of scares me as well, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:51.520 because you are blurring the lines between your spiritual life, 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:54.800 your home life, your work life. That then when you 0:07:54.880 --> 0:07:59.000 decide to leave, you're left absolutely high and dry. Immediately 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:01.720 you've gone from having what I would say, you know, 0:08:01.880 --> 0:08:03.760 regardless of the fact that a lot of it was 0:08:03.760 --> 0:08:07.960 not genuine, you go from feeling very supported to being 0:08:07.960 --> 0:08:11.160 completely isolated and on your own. So a lot of 0:08:11.160 --> 0:08:13.320 people they know they want to leave but they don't 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:15.360 want to leave because they don't want to lose that connection. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.400 They don't want to lose their friends or their so 0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:20.800 called friends. And then to add religion to that, like, 0:08:20.800 --> 0:08:23.680 what are you going to do? Leave your religion like that, 0:08:23.800 --> 0:08:29.800 to me is absolutely insane. How do multi level marketing businesses? 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:33.360 I guess use dopamine hits because obviously there's lots of 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.000 them built in. Like the people that run multi level 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:40.000 marketing businesses. Through all of my research, I've realized they're 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:44.920 not skincare experts like mone Right good example, they do 0:08:44.960 --> 0:08:48.080 hair care and they do skincare. The founders of Money 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:51.400 are not hair care or skincare people at all. In fact, 0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.439 they have a very rich history in network marketing and 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:58.240 multi level marketing business building, and they have just seen 0:08:58.880 --> 0:09:01.880 that hair care and skincare is incredibly popular with the 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:04.480 women that are the best victims. And so I think 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.520 we might go down that route. Let's create a haircare 0:09:07.559 --> 0:09:10.120 skin care line with all of these wild you know, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.280 things that we can say about them that no one 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:15.679 can really validate, and then we are going to recruit 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:18.760 all of these women underneath. But to keep them involved, 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:22.160 we actually need to give them consistent gratification and consistent 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:25.800 dopamine hits. And I feel like it's quite clear that 0:09:25.880 --> 0:09:28.360 through their model they use it to hook you like 0:09:28.400 --> 0:09:30.760 an addiction. And you've spoken about this in your book. 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:35.640 How does their structure keep you chasing that next high? 0:09:35.800 --> 0:09:39.400 Yeah, because they have hierarchy built in everywhere. You know, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:42.360 not only you join an upline, who then is like 0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:45.679 your master, who you have to take information from and 0:09:45.760 --> 0:09:48.560 distill it down and then recruit other people and tell them, 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:50.680 you know, like a baby bird. You've got to feed 0:09:50.720 --> 0:09:53.679 them the information. So you've got this hierarchy. But then 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:57.480 there's different levels, and you know, you promote to meet 0:09:57.520 --> 0:09:59.400 these levels, and every time you get there, there's some 0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:02.480 sort of it's like a constant game of like candy 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:03.720 crush or something. 0:10:04.000 --> 0:10:06.160 And I love candy Crush. I would have been the worst. 0:10:06.240 --> 0:10:09.880 I'm so glad, honestly, Emily, I see so much of 0:10:09.920 --> 0:10:11.920 me and you like, I just go. 0:10:12.240 --> 0:10:14.440 You know what, if someone had given me that opportunity 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:16.439 and I didn't know any better, I would have loved it. 0:10:16.440 --> 0:10:19.880 It's like gammification. I would have been all over it. 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.720 It is. It's like analogue gamification. That's exactly what it 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:25.880 is where they send you little gifts and just when 0:10:25.880 --> 0:10:27.840 you start to feel a little bit like, oh, my 0:10:27.920 --> 0:10:30.040 sales aren't good, they're like, we're going to have a 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.720 sale this month, and you know, you get a free 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.960 whatever for every one of these that you sell. And 0:10:35.280 --> 0:10:39.360 it's just constantly built in so you have something to 0:10:39.360 --> 0:10:42.560 look forward to. And they plan the convention. It's six 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.240 months in advance and you have to start like making 0:10:46.280 --> 0:10:50.440 your way to advancing to earn certain gifts at convention. 0:10:50.559 --> 0:10:53.160 They just make it a year long thing and then 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.600 during the month there's different goals. You know, every month 0:10:55.640 --> 0:10:58.840 you have to read up to the same title. Like 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:00.800 it starts over every month. It's not like you get 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.920 to a rank and then you're there. You have to 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:06.240 do it every month. It's just a constant hamster wheel. 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.200 And the higher you climb, from what I can say, 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.559 the more pressure you have on you to spend like 0:11:12.840 --> 0:11:17.440 first class lights assistance. This idea of retiring your husband 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.679 that everyone wants to talk about, how did projecting that 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:24.200 lifestyle keep you stock even when I guess it wasn't 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:25.479 financially sustainable. 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:28.600 Yeah, I mean that's one thing when people ask, like 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:30.679 about the car and how the car is not really free. 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.240 You actually have to buy the car, right, the free car. 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:34.960 Yeah, and it has to be white. It has to 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:37.959 be a white Range Drover, absolutely, And people have. 0:11:37.920 --> 0:11:39.920 Asked me like, well, why get it then, if it's 0:11:39.960 --> 0:11:43.880 such a financial drain, why get it? Well? Can you imagine? 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.360 You know, you see all over social media like so 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:49.120 and so earned her Lexus and then you're not driving 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.880 the car. So it's almost like you're forced, your shamed 0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:56.040 into spending and you don't want your downline thinking like well, 0:11:56.040 --> 0:11:57.840 why are you flying in coach when so and so 0:11:57.960 --> 0:12:00.439 is flying in first class? Or why are you doing 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:03.840 this when she's doing this. It's the comparison where you 0:12:03.960 --> 0:12:07.280 have to look like this is aspirational and if you 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:09.920 don't earn the trip and you're not there, well, your 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:12.720 team's not going to feel motivated to want to try 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:15.480 and earn it. And so you do feel pressure to 0:12:15.600 --> 0:12:18.920 buy stuff and to fit in and have the shoes 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.839 that kind of match everybody else. And that's why when 0:12:21.880 --> 0:12:24.240 people say like, oh, well, you know, what what did 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:26.360 you do with all the money, It's like it was 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.000 constantly going back in. The more you made, the more 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.920 you were expected to spend all of the time, and 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.040 even if it wasn't over, it was between the lines. 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:38.240 You know, what gifts are you going to give your 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.160 people who promote to level five? What retreat are you 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.400 going to take your team on? And if you're not 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:45.480 doing it well, why is someone going to want to 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:46.080 be on your team. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:47.120 It's a lot of pressure. 0:12:47.200 --> 0:12:50.360 It sounds like we're going to take a really quick break, 0:12:50.400 --> 0:12:52.679 but don't go anywhere because I've got so many more 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:59.720 juicy questions. All right, way, all back. And I feel 0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:04.600 like you were thankfully also not thankfully, like I'm glad 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.000 that you made it to the top, so that we 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:09.480 got you fighting the good fight against multi level marketing 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:12.479 businesses now. But you've said that a lot of consultants 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.240 are often presenting a life of success that's a little 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:19.560 bit more like illusion rather than reality. Oh, I don't know, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:23.000 what's the wildest thing you've seen someone do. I feel 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.800 like you were in a lucky position where you had 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:27.840 the income coming in, so like if you were spending it, okay, 0:13:28.000 --> 0:13:30.960 but like, what did you see someone do to kind 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:34.000 of like fake the dream to keep it alive? 0:13:34.400 --> 0:13:36.800 Yeah, I mean, I think one of the cringiest things. 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.600 Was something that a lot of people and everyone did. 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:44.320 This is like you pose next to your uplines lexus, right, 0:13:44.720 --> 0:13:46.960 So I was like, this is what my upline earned. 0:13:46.960 --> 0:13:48.600 It's like, well, you haven't earned it, Like what are 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.719 you talking about? You know. It was this aspirational thing. 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.560 And then also the posting of paychecks. Sure you've seen 0:13:54.880 --> 0:13:56.480 tons of that where they're like, oh, I got my 0:13:56.559 --> 0:13:59.480 monthly check or whatever, and then it's pexed out. 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:01.480 Yeah, I saw one the other day. 0:14:01.600 --> 0:14:04.040 It actually I forgot to screenshot it, and then when 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:06.320 I went back, they'd removed it. Because like, I have 0:14:06.800 --> 0:14:09.240 an account where I follow all the MLM girlies just 0:14:09.280 --> 0:14:12.280 to keep up with the goss and one girl had 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.600 done it, but she clearly moved her photo so the 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.880 exes were not in the right spot, and she's like 0:14:17.240 --> 0:14:19.800 the caption was, oh my god, I got my monthly paycheck. 0:14:19.800 --> 0:14:22.440 I'm so grateful for whatever. I don't even care. But 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:25.240 it was twenty three dollars and like forty cents, and 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:27.359 I was like, oh, that's embarrassing. 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:31.200 Yeah, yeah, it'll be like the right number of numbers, 0:14:31.240 --> 0:14:34.040 but they'll cover up where the decimal point is or whatever. 0:14:34.040 --> 0:14:36.520 So it looks like way more one hundred percent, and 0:14:36.600 --> 0:14:38.360 even if it was like even if it was one 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:42.600 thousand dollars, like again, subtract everything they're spending, which is 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:45.080 probably close to one thousand dollars. Tax is like how 0:14:45.160 --> 0:14:47.200 much should they spend to go on that trip? It 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:48.640 never accounts for that. 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:53.080 But the trip was free Emily, they earned that trip. 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:54.880 Which and then they get to pay for it at 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:57.160 the end of the year. Right, it's added as income. 0:14:57.280 --> 0:14:59.640 That's the other thing that of course I didn't know 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:01.880 why I but when you get to the end of 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:04.400 the year and you get your ten ninety nine statement 0:15:04.920 --> 0:15:07.200 and it's like, you know, you have your money that 0:15:07.240 --> 0:15:09.640 you actually aren't dollars, and then at the end it's like, 0:15:10.360 --> 0:15:13.480 you know, whatever for we leave it on bag and 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:15.120 that's added as income. 0:15:15.200 --> 0:15:17.280 And that happens in Australia too when we get our 0:15:17.600 --> 0:15:20.520 tax statements, because they do give you a tax statement 0:15:20.560 --> 0:15:23.960 because surprise, surprise, it's actually not your own business, because 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:26.600 they have to issue you with your own tax statement 0:15:26.640 --> 0:15:29.720 because they've done all of their maths in the background, 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:33.280 and you have like your non monetary income that needs 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:36.280 to be disclosed and if you've been gifted anything. 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:39.120 And you don't get to write it off exactly, they 0:15:39.160 --> 0:15:42.160 already wrote it off. You don't get to write it off. 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:44.720 You just have to pay tax on that quote income 0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:48.120 that you achieved and it's not actually income, So you're 0:15:48.160 --> 0:15:49.920 paying for something that. 0:15:49.880 --> 0:15:50.920 You thought was free. 0:15:51.200 --> 0:15:53.640 Yeah, is it great to get a purse? Sure? Can 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.960 you pay your rent with that? No? So there's a 0:15:57.000 --> 0:15:59.520 lot of people who they end up getting pushed over 0:15:59.560 --> 0:16:03.720 the threshole of having to file quarterly taxes in the US. 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:05.560 You know, it's over a certain amount yet to fail 0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.640 quarterly and they didn't know that because they were like 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:11.800 making a couple hundred bucks a month, but because they 0:16:11.840 --> 0:16:15.040 went on this trip that was added as income. Then 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:17.240 they get this ten thousand dollars fine from the IRS 0:16:17.280 --> 0:16:19.640 because they didn't file quarterly taxes. And I heard this 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:23.120 story over and over and over because how would you know? 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:25.120 But the MLM is not going to tell you that 0:16:25.280 --> 0:16:28.800 because that's not sexy, and that's your problem. Remember, it's 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:31.320 your business. You need to work out your own taxes. 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:36.120 That's not their responsibility. That is all honestly outrageous, But 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.520 one of the most outrageous things that I read in 0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:40.000 your book. 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:41.800 I nearly threw it across the room. 0:16:41.880 --> 0:16:45.240 Emily, Oh my lord, I like put it down in 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.200 bed and I looked at my husband and I was like, 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:50.320 you're not going to believe this, and he was like, 0:16:50.360 --> 0:16:53.520 all right, laid on me. What is it in your book? 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:57.920 You talk about your cancer diagnosis and then how the 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:02.560 multi level marketing business encouraged you to use that as 0:17:02.600 --> 0:17:08.040 a selling point. That is a deeply personal and very 0:17:08.160 --> 0:17:11.000 vulnerable time to be going through for them to be 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:16.400 like great sales, black fantastic selling point. Can you walk 0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.200 us through what happened and how that made you feel? 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.959 Because that was a lot Yeah. 0:17:22.040 --> 0:17:26.439 I think again, this is something that's preemptively trained into you, 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:28.880 like a lot of things, just like how they'll say, oh, 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:30.560 you'll have a lot of haters and you'll get a 0:17:30.560 --> 0:17:32.320 lot of people saying no to you. And here's all 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:35.639 the talking points like preemptive right, you are from the 0:17:35.640 --> 0:17:39.840 beginning again, you're doing all that love bombing. You're telling 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:42.879 you like deeply personal stories. You're talking about your trials 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:47.240 and tribulations. And when you go to events you hear 0:17:47.359 --> 0:17:50.720 people's sob stories. It's the rags to riches, it's the 0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:54.480 pain to profit. Right, those are the stories you always hear, 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.199 and so this is just cooked into your brain. And 0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.199 so when something troubling comes up, like when some one 0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:03.520 you know, their husband who's a firefighter die is in 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.919 a fire, well, the company is right on that to 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:09.159 be like, oh gosh, you know you really need the 0:18:09.200 --> 0:18:11.000 money right now. You know you could use this as 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:15.680 a way to earn money. Ew no, but it sounds like, oh, yeah, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.600 you're right, I have my own business. This would be 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:22.200 a good way to help. It's really hard to explain 0:18:22.240 --> 0:18:23.520 when you're out of it because that's one of those 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.120 things people are like, well, that's really gross. So I'm like, yeah, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:31.040 it is, and it seems like the most natural thing 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:33.359 to do when that is the sea you're swimming in, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:37.320 when you are around all of this quote unquote charity 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.920 again the air quotes. That's not charitable. It feels like 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:42.160 you're doing a very good thing. 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.600 It's actually insane to me that they literally take advantage 0:18:46.640 --> 0:18:50.640 of every situation like you're right, maybe you did need 0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.639 some money during that period of time. But the way 0:18:53.720 --> 0:18:56.679 that they manipulate that I have scene it time and 0:18:56.720 --> 0:19:01.160 time again here in Australia, like oh, it. Actually, yeah, 0:19:01.440 --> 0:19:03.639 I did want to throw your book. I'm so sorry, 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:06.399 Like I wouldn't have heard it, but like I wanted 0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:07.919 to throw it across the room and be like this 0:19:08.080 --> 0:19:11.520 is ridiculous, Like the fact that this was normal and 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:16.240 that you've exposed it, right, that's so fantastic. But it's 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.359 still going on, and they're like, I'm sure you've been 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.119 absolutely outcast. You've been like you've been kicked out of 0:19:22.160 --> 0:19:24.040 the Church of MLM's. 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:25.840 Right, Oh yeah, oh yeah, So talk to. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:28.480 Me about that process, because I feel like the second 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.560 you start being one of the quote haters, you like, 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:34.640 went from being their queen to i would say, being 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.240 exiled and they wanted to put you on an island 0:19:37.359 --> 0:19:39.720 in the middle of the Pacific and never hear from 0:19:39.720 --> 0:19:40.200 you again. 0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:41.439 What was that like? 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:45.159 So my process was kind of interesting because it was 0:19:45.200 --> 0:19:48.640 twenty nineteen where I was like, ooh, where I really 0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:50.760 you know again, I'd had my team do like profit 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:52.840 loss statements, and where I got to the point where 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.919 I'm like, no, all of these people are doing the 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:57.479 work and they are not having the success that I 0:19:57.520 --> 0:20:00.600 had had, and I knew it was a system. So 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.280 I was like, I'm turning everything off. I'm not selling anymore. 0:20:04.720 --> 0:20:07.560 I'm just going to slowly back away. So I was 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:10.480 very transparent with my upline who brought me in, like, 0:20:11.040 --> 0:20:13.720 you know what, I love you, thank you for this opportunity. 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:15.800 I'm just I'm not going to do this anymore. And 0:20:15.800 --> 0:20:17.720 I kind of thought I would like silently collect a 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.640 check until it dissolved and went away. And then COVID happened, 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.440 and I mean the off the wall like the predatory 0:20:28.200 --> 0:20:31.359 posts and comments and trying to use the pandemic to 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.600