1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,880 Speaker 1: Good morning everybody. Welcome to the Daily Oz. My name 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: is Sam Kazlowski. It is the eighteenth of November. Happy 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Independence Day if you're in Morocco, and we're going to 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: be breaking down the day's news for you. Zara. What 5 00:00:12,960 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: is leading the news this morning? 6 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 2: There have been a few updates in relation to William 7 00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 2: Tyrrel and yesterday his foster parents were charged with alleged 8 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:24,959 Speaker 2: common assault of another child, so not in relation to 9 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 2: the case of William. In a statement on Wednesday, police 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 2: said that as part of the ongoing investigations under Force Roseanne, 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:35,519 Speaker 2: detectives from the Homicide Squad received information relating to the 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 2: suspected assault of a child at a home on Sydney's 13 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 2: Upper north Shore. This story does seem to be quite 14 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:43,479 Speaker 2: fast moving and there have been a lot of updates 15 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 2: over the last couple of days. 16 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: The Northern Territory is the latest Australian state or territory 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,239 Speaker 1: to deal with a COVID outbreak. They recorded eight new 18 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: cases of COVID yesterday, bringing the current cluster to nineteen. 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 1: Five of the new cases are in the remote First 20 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: Nations community of Robinson River and the other are in 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: Catherine All The new cases are close contacts of previously 22 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: announced cases. 23 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: This one was a biggie in the world of politics. 24 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 2: Former Federal Labour MP Craig Thompson has been arrested and 25 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 2: charged for allegedly being involved in a multimillion dollar migration fraud. 26 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:20,120 Speaker 2: It's alleged he gained more than two million dollars in 27 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: personal profit and he's due to appear in Gosford Local 28 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 2: Court today. 29 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 1: And your Thursday good news. The Victorian government has announced 30 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:30,560 Speaker 1: it will more than double the capacity of the state's 31 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,000 Speaker 1: Youth Prevention and Recovery Care Network to provide greater access 32 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,320 Speaker 1: to mental health services for young people. More than doubling 33 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: is a step in the right direction. 34 00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: For today's deep dive, Billy has spoken to doctor Jenner Price, 35 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: who led us study into how women are represented in 36 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 2: Australian media compared to men. It was a fascinating report 37 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 2: that had lots of great insights. So here is that chat. 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,360 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining us, JARNI, I really 39 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 3: appreciate it. 40 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 4: Thanks for having me, Billy. 41 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: Can you introduce yourself and explain what you do and 42 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,680 Speaker 3: what the purpose of the women for media report is. 43 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 4: My name's Jenna Price. And I'm a visiting fellow at 44 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 4: the Australian National University, and I've also been a journalist 45 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 4: and columnist for forty years. I have been working with 46 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 4: the Women's Leadership Institute of Australia over the last couple 47 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 4: of years to do a report on the state of 48 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 4: women in the media, and that means not only how 49 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 4: women are represented, but also who writes about women and 50 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 4: who makes those decisions. So we look at a couple 51 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: of things. We look at how many women are getting 52 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 4: bylines on that very important top story on the website 53 00:02:40,480 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 4: or that very important place on the front page of newspapers. 54 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 4: But we also look at what the topics are that 55 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 4: are being covered and the kinds of people that are 56 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:53,040 Speaker 4: being quoted. And you know, it's interesting to me. A 57 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 4: lot of the data shows us that women write really extensively. 58 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 4: They get lots of bylines, but they mainly get their 59 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 4: byline around entertainment and the arts, and that's fantastic and 60 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,399 Speaker 4: important part of part of our culture, but it doesn't 61 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,959 Speaker 4: really influence how our society works. So it's really important 62 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 4: that we try and get more young women journalists or 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 4: actually any age women journalists to write about politics and 64 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 4: to write about the economy, because those are the things 65 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 4: that influence the way our lives turn out. 66 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,520 Speaker 3: And so what were some of the key findings of 67 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 3: the report this year. 68 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 4: Well, I think the thing that was most surprising to 69 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,720 Speaker 4: me was that it's still seventy percent of male voices. 70 00:03:31,760 --> 00:03:34,560 Speaker 4: When we looked at our sixty thousand stories, nearly sixty 71 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 4: thousand stories, it was dominated by male voices. We also 72 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:41,920 Speaker 4: discovered that what women write about is very gendered, and 73 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 4: what men write about is very gendered. So when women writers, 74 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 4: i said before, they write about entertainment, they write about health, 75 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 4: and health has been very important of course during the pandemic. 76 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:57,640 Speaker 4: But men write about politics, business, economics, and sport. And 77 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: although sport isn't really influential in our society in terms 78 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 4: of deciding policy, it's certainly influential in making connections with 79 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 4: other people, how you network. It was very sad for 80 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:13,080 Speaker 4: me to discover that in our big dump of data, 81 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,840 Speaker 4: eighty seven percent of the stories were written by men. 82 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 4: I guess that's troubling enough that only thirteen percent of 83 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,000 Speaker 4: women are in our data. We're writing about sport, but 84 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 4: also women's sport hardly gets covered, so we have to 85 00:04:26,760 --> 00:04:30,839 Speaker 4: have a real rethink of why we think women's sport 86 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 4: is not so interesting, why people who make decisions about 87 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 4: what's on the front page think sport is not so interesting. 88 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 4: I guess the other key finding for me was discovering 89 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 4: how little women are ever quoted when they're talking about economics. 90 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 4: So I think only thirty out of one hundred stories 91 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,039 Speaker 4: about economics have women's voices in them. And we have 92 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 4: some amazing women economists in this country. Allison Pennington, who's 93 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,160 Speaker 4: not only a woman but only thirty two years old, 94 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 4: so she's got this whole life ahead of her, Joe Masters, 95 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 4: Nicky Hutley. I mean, they're fantastic women economists, Emma Dawson, 96 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 4: and they are just not appearing enough. I mean the 97 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 4: fact that they appear at all now is really fantastic 98 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 4: because it never happened when I was a girl. I 99 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 4: think I had entire stories where you could just see 100 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:20,280 Speaker 4: man after man being quoted. But we've got the women now, 101 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 4: we need to be convincing people to quote them. 102 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:26,200 Speaker 3: One of the other really interesting findings I found was 103 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:29,800 Speaker 3: that sixty five percent of opinion articles were written by men. 104 00:05:30,120 --> 00:05:31,840 Speaker 3: Did you find that surprising. 105 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,719 Speaker 4: Well, I didn't find it surprising because when I first 106 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:40,680 Speaker 4: started writing opinion articles in about nineteen eighty four, I was, 107 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 4: you know, bossy and bolshy, and people thought I was 108 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 4: just too full of myself. But I really wanted to 109 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 4: get I mean, I was then a young woman. I 110 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 4: wanted to get young women's voices out there. I think 111 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 4: it's very interesting to me that that's not just an 112 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,640 Speaker 4: editorial decision, this fantastic young man. I interviewed Andrew Thorpe, 113 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 4: who is the edit of the opinion pages of the 114 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 4: Canberra Times. He said in the month of May he 115 00:06:04,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 4: got a handful of submissions from women, and he says 116 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,320 Speaker 4: that's typical. So I'm on this whole kind of urge 117 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:13,640 Speaker 4: now to try and get women to write, to pitch pieces. 118 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,160 Speaker 4: They're not always going to get published, but have a 119 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 4: go at trying to write things. And Julie Lewis, who 120 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 4: is the opinion editor at the Sydney Morning Herald, decided 121 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 4: in March that she was going to go for having 122 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:27,640 Speaker 4: many more women's voices. And by May we looked for 123 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 4: the whole month of May she had more women's voices 124 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:32,560 Speaker 4: than men's voices, and that was because she had made 125 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,719 Speaker 4: a conscious decision to make the change, and I just 126 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 4: think that's brilliant. And you can see at The Australian 127 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:41,159 Speaker 4: they too have had a big improvement from fifteen percent 128 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 4: two years ago to thirty percent. Now. Again that's a 129 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 4: woman editor, Jennifer Campbell, making the decision to purposefully go 130 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 4: and look for women's voices. And I mean, that's just 131 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 4: got to be the way it is. But women have 132 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 4: also got to put themselves out there, no matter how 133 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,040 Speaker 4: confronting it is. And I mean, the thing I want 134 00:06:58,040 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 4: to say to people is that it's not any for me. 135 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 4: After forty years, I still get very anxious. So I 136 00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 4: get really upset when people are unpleasant and troll me. 137 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 4: But I've also decided that I'm going to be resilient 138 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 4: and I'm going to push back. And one of the 139 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 4: things I would say to any woman wanting to write 140 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:16,880 Speaker 4: an op ed piece is to have a go. If 141 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,240 Speaker 4: you think you're going to be very controversial or you're 142 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 4: going to get a lot of pushback, is to build 143 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 4: a little community, a little WhatsApp chat group, or a 144 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 4: Facebook messenger group or a Twitter private messages group to 145 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 4: get some support in place for when you freak out because, 146 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 4: believe me, you will freak out because I still do 147 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 4: and I've been doing it a long time. 148 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: You talked about Julie Lewis making that conscious change. How 149 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: much of these findings do you think is because of 150 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: unconscious or subconscious bias. 151 00:07:45,160 --> 00:07:48,800 Speaker 4: Well, I think that men like to interview men. I mean, 152 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 4: it was interesting to me that when we looked at 153 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:54,800 Speaker 4: the data, we saw that women interviewed women in fifty 154 00:07:54,840 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 4: percent of their stories. Men interviewed women in only thirty 155 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 4: seven percent of their stories, a big gap. And men 156 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,560 Speaker 4: always go for interviewing men, whereas women look for a 157 00:08:06,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 4: kind of different angle or a different slant or and 158 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,560 Speaker 4: I mean, I think that's just you know, we want 159 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 4: to interview people we feel comfortable with. There is also 160 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:18,920 Speaker 4: the slight problem, and I'm not victim blaming here, but 161 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,880 Speaker 4: I'm asking women to consider their participation in this is 162 00:08:22,920 --> 00:08:25,720 Speaker 4: that when women get asked to be experts, they often say, 163 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 4: I feel very anxious. I don't want to do it. 164 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 4: I've got other things to do. I've got to pick 165 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 4: up the kids. And that is the kind of thing 166 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:34,560 Speaker 4: you have to get to. Yes, you have to say 167 00:08:34,559 --> 00:08:36,720 Speaker 4: to yourself, I'm going to do this, even though I 168 00:08:36,760 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 4: find it hard and it's not very convenient. Because the 169 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 4: more you get interviewed, the more you get interviewed, the 170 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 4: more prominent you are, the more prominent you become, and 171 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 4: that is something we just have to recognize. I mean, 172 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 4: you can understand, as Andrew says in the interview, if 173 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:53,120 Speaker 4: you've got a really great ophead piece that's popped into 174 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 4: your inbox and you don't have to do any work, 175 00:08:55,600 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 4: I mean, you go for that because we're all under pressure, 176 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 4: we've all got too much work to do. But I 177 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 4: really think we can do a better job of promoting 178 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:04,160 Speaker 4: ourselves as women. 179 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,320 Speaker 3: You mentioned before that you spoke with editors of some 180 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,960 Speaker 3: of the biggest media companies across the country for this report. 181 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 3: What did they tell you about why women in their 182 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 3: publications are still not represented in an equal way to men. 183 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 4: Jane Nichols did the bulk of the interviews of all 184 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 4: the editors. She did a great job, and the themes 185 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,240 Speaker 4: we discovered in that and in other interviews we did 186 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 4: for the report was that women are reluctant to go 187 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:32,320 Speaker 4: to Canberra. Well, thank heavens for Britney Higgins, because we 188 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 4: now understand why women are reluctant to go to Camber. 189 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 4: It sounds like, you know, Australia's worst workplace. First of all, 190 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 4: we have to work on making that place better, and 191 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,640 Speaker 4: that's up to the government to do its bit. But 192 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 4: we also have to persuade and support women to recognize 193 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 4: that if they write about politics and if they write 194 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 4: about the economy, they are more likely to have a 195 00:09:52,360 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 4: much bigger impact when it comes to changing policy or 196 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,960 Speaker 4: encouraging politicians to go a particular way. So politics is 197 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,840 Speaker 4: a really influential round And even when we looked at 198 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,600 Speaker 4: what was in the opinion pages and we didn't go 199 00:10:04,679 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 4: into this in depth, women still tended to write about 200 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 4: the kinds of things that I usually write about, which 201 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:14,959 Speaker 4: is domestic violence or women's rights, or childcare or those 202 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,679 Speaker 4: kinds of issues. So we also have to get women 203 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,719 Speaker 4: to recognize that although those things are really crucial, and 204 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,280 Speaker 4: I mean, my life would have been chaos without good childcare, 205 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 4: but we also have to get them to write economics 206 00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 4: because that's so crucial. The other wonderful person we interviewed 207 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,520 Speaker 4: was a woman called Angela Boss, a US academic, and 208 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 4: she said, you know, young women are socialized to not 209 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 4: be interested in politics from a very early age. They 210 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 4: think about politicians as you know, folks who look like Einstein. 211 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:47,000 Speaker 4: They don't see themselves as being that person. And the 212 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:50,480 Speaker 4: same is true for women's sports writers. It was interesting 213 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 4: to me interviewing Jessica Halleran from The Australian and she said, 214 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:56,320 Speaker 4: when I started out in writing about sport, it was 215 00:10:56,360 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 4: a very hostile male environment. I ended up with a 216 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 4: great mentor, a woman called Jacqueline Magnet, who was a 217 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 4: fantastic sports reporter and of course has gone on to 218 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,120 Speaker 4: be the European correspondent for the Australian. So you need mentors. 219 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 4: We all need mentors of all kinds. And I mean, 220 00:11:11,640 --> 00:11:13,840 Speaker 4: I think it's okayu to male mentors as well, but 221 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,960 Speaker 4: it's hard to make the change in society by ourselves. 222 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,559 Speaker 3: Did the editors admit, though, in the conversations that there 223 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,240 Speaker 3: was more that they could do as well to promote 224 00:11:23,320 --> 00:11:25,360 Speaker 3: gender diversity in their publications. 225 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 4: They all talked about the struggles that they'd had. I mean, 226 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 4: it was very comforting this time compared to last time, 227 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 4: to discover that the editors recognized they had a responsibility 228 00:11:37,240 --> 00:11:41,080 Speaker 4: in promoting diversity within their publications. Encouraging women to do 229 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 4: all kinds of rounds, getting their reporters to seek diversity 230 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:49,199 Speaker 4: in who they interview. Really, it's a huge shift from 231 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:52,440 Speaker 4: forty years ago. Forty years ago, if I'd interviewed five 232 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,079 Speaker 4: white men, no one would have cared. Now. I mean, 233 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 4: the thing is that I started to care about a 234 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 4: year or two after I got into journalism, and we've 235 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 4: come an enormous way since then. I hardly ever see 236 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 4: except in maybe the top federal political the top male 237 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 4: federal political correspondence, the desire to only interview men. I mean, 238 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,080 Speaker 4: I see that we are all trying to do a 239 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 4: better job. 240 00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,600 Speaker 3: So I've come a long way, but there's still a 241 00:12:16,640 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: long way to go. Is that right? 242 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:20,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, there is still such a long way to go, 243 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:22,880 Speaker 4: and there's things that we can do to make change. 244 00:12:22,920 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 4: And the thing I would like to say is that 245 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:30,560 Speaker 4: it's very difficult to write about newsmakers and still have 246 00:12:30,640 --> 00:12:33,440 Speaker 4: diversity in your coverage, because you know, the prime minister's mail, 247 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 4: the Deputy prime minister's mail, the treasurers mail, the Health 248 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,560 Speaker 4: minister's male. So the best thing we can do is 249 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 4: to encourage our sisters and our daughters and our granddaughters 250 00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:47,200 Speaker 4: to become politicians or go and work in companies where 251 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:50,840 Speaker 4: they can get into the pipeline of profit making centers. 252 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 4: Because when we have women politicians, we are going to 253 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 4: have much more diversity in our coverage because we will 254 00:12:56,360 --> 00:12:59,360 Speaker 4: be writing about women prime ministers one day again, I 255 00:12:59,400 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 4: hope soon. 256 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 3: Jennepries, thank you so much for your time. I really 257 00:13:02,559 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 3: appreciate it.