Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily OS.
Speaker 2: This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,
Speaker 2: the twenty fourth of September. I'm Emma Gillespie.
Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Tassel.
Speaker 2: One of the world's most common pain relief medications, has
Speaker 2: dominated headlines over the past twenty four to forty eight
Speaker 2: hours after recent comments from the Trump administration linking paracetamol
Speaker 2: to autism.
Speaker 3: I want to say it like it is. Don't take dalanol,
Speaker 3: don't take it.
Speaker 2: Warnings from the US about the use of Tailanol, a
Speaker 2: brand of paracetamol during pregnancy, prompted Australia's Health Minister Mark
Speaker 2: Butler to seek urgent advice from the Therapeutic Goods Administration.
Speaker 2: Today we are going to take you through what the
Speaker 2: US President and other officials said, the backlash, Australia's response,
Speaker 2: and what the science actually says about paraceta safety. But
Speaker 2: before we get into it, he is a quick word
Speaker 2: from our.
Speaker 1: Sponsor, Emma. This story has evolved quite rapidly this week.
Speaker 1: Can you take me back to the start? What was said?
Speaker 1: How did this begin?
Speaker 2: Yes? So, US President Donald Trump this week made what
Speaker 2: he's calling one of the biggest medical announcements in decades
Speaker 2: to confront what he has called, quote, the crisis of autism.
Speaker 2: Trump was joined by US officials, including Health Secretary Robert F.
Speaker 2: Kennedy Junior. RFK Junior, at a White House press conference
Speaker 2: on Monday, where he claimed that tylanol is a very
Speaker 2: big factor in autism. Now, just to clarify here for
Speaker 2: our audience, thailanol and panadol. They are both brand names
Speaker 2: for the same active ingredient, paracetamol, which is also called acidaminifen,
Speaker 2: which you may have heard some American officials calling it
Speaker 2: that effective. Immediately, Trump said that the FDA will be
Speaker 2: notifying physicians, gps and doctors that the use of parasitamol
Speaker 2: during pregnancy quote, can be associated with a very increased
Speaker 2: risk of autism.
Speaker 1: What do we need to know about the FDA.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the FDA is the Food and Drug Administration.
Speaker 2: They are America's equivalent to what we have here the TGA,
Speaker 2: the Therapeutic Goods Administration. So those bodies are both the
Speaker 2: medicine regulators for their respective countries.
Speaker 1: Okay, before we go any further, we should probably touch
Speaker 1: on kind of can you give us like a broad brushstrokes.
Speaker 1: What is autism?
Speaker 2: Yes, so, autism spectrum disorder is a condition diagnosed through
Speaker 2: developmental assessments and neurobehavioral observations. It is a neurodevelopmental condition,
Speaker 2: meaning if you are autistic, you are born autistic. That's
Speaker 2: what the evidence tells us. The support that autistic people
Speaker 2: need can vary because it's in the name a spectrum.
Speaker 2: Autism is considered a spectrum, so it is often character
Speaker 2: rised by differences in communication styles, maybe some issues with
Speaker 2: sensory processing, but that disorder means that you know, no
Speaker 2: one autistic person is the same as the other. In
Speaker 2: the nineteen nineties, a study suggested that routine childhood vaccines
Speaker 2: might cause autism, but this study has been debunked its
Speaker 2: author was deregistered as a doctor. Regardless, though, that sentiment
Speaker 2: that relationship between vaccines and autism remains in some communities.
Speaker 1: And partly propagated by RFK Junior himself.
Speaker 2: In exactly which we will get into in a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yes, Now, does this mean that the US's FDA is
Speaker 1: advising against the use of paracetamol during pregnancy?
Speaker 2: Not completely, but essentially so Trump's focus is on its
Speaker 2: use during pregnancy. He said that paracetamal use should be
Speaker 2: restricted to only in cases of an extremely high temperature
Speaker 2: in pregnancy.
Speaker 3: In other words, a fever that's very, very dangerous, and
Speaker 3: so ideally you don't take it at all, but if
Speaker 3: you have to, if you can't tough it out, or
Speaker 3: if you's a problem, you're going to end up doing it.
Speaker 1: I mentioned earlier obviously that Kennedy, the Health Secretary, has
Speaker 1: a history with suggesting various medicines could lead to certain
Speaker 1: neurodevelopmental disorders. But I have to say I was pretty
Speaker 1: surprised by the paracetamol of it all. That kind of
Speaker 1: to me anyway, came out of nowhere this week. Why
Speaker 1: were health officials even looking into this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think you're right, Lucy. It did come
Speaker 2: as a little bit of a surprise for us here
Speaker 2: in Australia. But there has been a focus within the
Speaker 2: Trump administration around autism diagnoses spiking within the US, so
Speaker 2: they've tripled in the past two decades. Paracetamol use has
Speaker 2: remained largely steady over that time. But correlation does not
Speaker 2: equal causation, which we'll get into RFK Junior, specifically, as
Speaker 2: you flagged, has long promoted debunked theories around vaccines and autism,
Speaker 2: and both he and Trump have stated on previous occasions
Speaker 2: that they believe there's an autism epidemic in the US
Speaker 2: attributed to this so called explosion in cases. When Kennedy
Speaker 2: was appointed to the Health Secretary portfolio, he promised earlier
Speaker 2: this year to identify the cause of autism by September.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this month, this month, and.
Speaker 2: Here we are. And he has pointed to everything from
Speaker 2: synthetic food dies to childhood vaccines as potential concern points.
Speaker 2: So from his perspective, I suppose paracetamol just falls into
Speaker 2: a bigger mission that he is on.
Speaker 1: What is the kind of evidence that the White House
Speaker 1: is presenting? Have they explained any of the findings or
Speaker 1: evidence linking autism and paracetamol?
Speaker 2: So specifically, the White House does say that it has
Speaker 2: evidence to suggest paracetamol use in pregnant women, especially late
Speaker 2: in pregnancy, may cause quote long term neurological effects in children.
Speaker 2: According to a statement, the findings of multiple large scale
Speaker 2: cohort studies link prenatal parasitamal exposure to altered brain development
Speaker 2: and adverse birth outcomes. That's what the White House has said,
Speaker 2: and that increased incidence in neurodevelopmental disorders also includes ADHD.
Speaker 2: So a lot of the focus is about autism, but
Speaker 2: there is also a conversation here going on about ADHD.
Speaker 2: I do just want to point out, though, that while
Speaker 2: the White House has cited large scale studies, the language
Speaker 2: used in those studies include words like may, suggest, proposed.
Speaker 2: There is no absolute certainty about this link, and Trump
Speaker 2: has even conceded that himself this week.
Speaker 3: It's not that everything percent understood or known, but I
Speaker 3: think we've made a lot of.
Speaker 2: Strides despite that. Trump's advice is that pregnant women should quote,
Speaker 2: fight like hell not to take paracetamol.
Speaker 1: Okay, is there any data to contradict these claims.
Speaker 2: There have been some studies suggesting a potential link between
Speaker 2: paracetamol use in pregnancy and slightly higher autism rates. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but according to multiple other studies, it's a different story.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: I wanted to quote some comments from James Cusack. He's
Speaker 2: the chief executive of a UK autism research and campaigning
Speaker 2: charity called Autistica. He's quoted in the scientific journal Nature
Speaker 2: as saying there is no definitive evidence to suggest that
Speaker 2: parascetamol use in mothers is a cause of autism, and
Speaker 2: when you see any associations, they are very, very small.
Speaker 2: He said. At the heart of this is people trying
Speaker 2: to look for simple answers to complex problems. The biggest
Speaker 2: and most comprehensive study to date on this also tells
Speaker 2: a different story to the latest FDA advice from Trump
Speaker 2: and RFK Junior. So, a Swedish study published last year
Speaker 2: actually looked at data from two and a half million
Speaker 2: children born between nineteen ninety five and twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a huge sample size. That's a sample size
Speaker 1: that I dream about when we when we get reports
Speaker 1: here at the Daily OS, I'm always looking what's the
Speaker 1: sample size exactly? People did they talk to? Two point
Speaker 1: five million is incredible.
Speaker 2: I knew you would like that one.
Speaker 1: Let's see, thank you.
Speaker 2: So, what this study found was that when researchers compared siblings,
Speaker 2: so where one was exposed to paracetamol in utero and
Speaker 2: where one wasn't, any apparent link to autism completely disappeared.
Speaker 2: So that suggests that other factors like genetics or underlying
Speaker 2: maternal health conditions better explain any associations that we might see. Okay,
Speaker 2: I think it's also really important to note here from
Speaker 2: a public health perspective, paracetamol is considered the safest pain
Speaker 2: and temperature medication for pregnant women. Pregnant women don't have
Speaker 2: a lot of options when it comes to medications while
Speaker 2: they are carrying a fetus, and so you know, this medication,
Speaker 2: paracetamol is sometimes their only safe option. It is used
Speaker 2: by roughly half of all pregnant people worldwide, and high
Speaker 2: temperature during pregnancy, if left untreated, is actually a known
Speaker 2: risk factor for a raft of issues, including neurodevelopmental disorders
Speaker 2: in children, but also miscourage, blood pressure issues, and you
Speaker 2: know anxiety and mental health concerns that come with the
Speaker 2: pain of being untreated.
Speaker 1: So does that mean that there could be kind of
Speaker 1: unintended consequences from this US announcement.
Speaker 2: That's pretty much what global experts are now warning. Yes. So,
Speaker 2: doctor Lyndon Stocker is from the University Hospital Southampton, that's
Speaker 2: a really large teaching hospital in the UK, and that
Speaker 2: doctor warned that suggesting paracetamol is unsafe will cause much
Speaker 2: anxiety to women who already feel vulnerable. So that kind
Speaker 2: of speaks to you know, that pregnant women don't have
Speaker 2: that many options on the table if they are unwell
Speaker 2: while they're pregnant, and paracetamol is really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've heard from the US and now from the UK.
Speaker 1: We are the Daily OZ. So what has Australia said
Speaker 1: in response to this announcement.
Speaker 2: There's been a really strong reaction here in Australia. Shortly
Speaker 2: after the FDA updated its advice, and shortly after that
Speaker 2: Trump press conference, Federal Health Minister Mark Butler reached out
Speaker 2: to the TGA, our FDA, you could say, our drug
Speaker 2: regulator for urgent advice on this announcement out of the US. Then,
Speaker 2: in a press conference on Monday evening, Butler urged pregnant
Speaker 2: women not to take action on these reports without seeking
Speaker 2: medical advice first. The Health Minister also reiterated that crucial
Speaker 2: point that we've mentioned, paracetamol isn't just for pain relief.
Speaker 2: It's a really important treatment against high temperatures. Then the
Speaker 2: TGA released a statement on Tuesday rejecting claims linking paracetamol
Speaker 2: to autism or ADHD. It's said there is robust scientific
Speaker 2: evidence to support the safety of this medication and quote
Speaker 2: several large and reliable studies directly contradicting the claims out
Speaker 2: of the US.
Speaker 1: Before this week. What was the TGO's advice on paracetamol
Speaker 1: during pregnancy.
Speaker 2: Yes, so, paracetamol is classified as a Category A drug
Speaker 2: for pregnancy. That means that it's been taken by large
Speaker 2: numbers of pregnant women without any proven increase in birth
Speaker 2: defects or harmful impacts on the fetus. So basically regulators
Speaker 2: here have given it the greenest green light possible for
Speaker 2: use during pregnancy.
Speaker 1: Have we heard anything else from Australia's medical community, like
Speaker 1: from Australian doctors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so the Australian Medical Association has come out really
Speaker 2: strongly against Trump's claims. The AMA's New South Wales president,
Speaker 2: doctor Catherine Austen called the announcement incredibly dangerous. She said
Speaker 2: this claim is medically inaccurate and quote effectively spreads health
Speaker 2: disinformation at a time when people are incredibly concerned about
Speaker 2: their child's health. Austin emphasized that autism has an incredibly
Speaker 2: complex causal pathway and it isn't caused by common medications
Speaker 2: like panadol.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: James Cusack from Autistica in the UK, who I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: he noted that even when studies do show associations, they
Speaker 2: are very, very small, and I think, you know, we
Speaker 2: should address the fact that genetics are thought to play
Speaker 2: a major role in autism. These genes that are associated
Speaker 2: with autism are highly hereditary. In fact, around eighty percent
Speaker 2: of autism cases can be linked to inherited genic mutations.
Speaker 2: According to data from UCLA. Autism develops during early brain development,
Speaker 2: and there is no evidence that children can develop autism
Speaker 2: after early fetal development as a result of exposure to
Speaker 2: vaccines or toxins, So there is no evidence that autism
Speaker 2: is developed from that point. Okay, And just to round
Speaker 2: out the response here in Australia, the Australian Association of
Speaker 2: Psychologists has criticized Trump's claims for contributing to autism stigma.
Speaker 2: So this is the peak national body for psychologists, and
Speaker 2: its Chief Services Officer Amanda Curran said quote, these unsubstantiated
Speaker 2: claims seem to be placing the blame on parents for
Speaker 2: taking an everyday medication that has proven it to be safe.
Speaker 2: She said, autism is a neurodevelopmental difference, not a disease
Speaker 2: or deficit to be feared or prevented.
Speaker 1: So for the TDA audience, people who may be listening
Speaker 1: to this, who are pregnant or might know someone who's pregnant,
Speaker 1: what do they do with this information?
Speaker 2: So really important to listen to the Australian government's advice
Speaker 2: on this. I think it has cautioned pregnant women not
Speaker 2: to follow Trump and Kennedy's advice without first seeking medical guidance.
Speaker 2: The Health Minister Mark Butler said the government is working
Speaker 2: with the TGA to provide advice. But Butler said paracetamol
Speaker 2: is not obviously just a painkilling medication. It's an important
Speaker 2: treatment for fever, which can also be dangerous if left untreated.
Speaker 2: I think the translation of all of this, Lucy is
Speaker 2: not to panic, to wait until we hear otherwise. But
Speaker 2: for now everything is as it was before when it
Speaker 2: comes to paracetamol used during pregnancy, which is that it
Speaker 2: is completely safe.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you so much for diving into that for us, Emma,
Speaker 1: a pleasure packing all of it, and thank you so
Speaker 1: much for joining us today. We'll be back again this
Speaker 1: evening with the headlines and once again tomorrow with another
Speaker 1: deep dive. Until then, have a great day. My name
Speaker 1: is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bugelung Calcoton
Speaker 1: woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this
Speaker 1: podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people
Speaker 1: and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate island
Speaker 1: and nations. We pay our respects to the first peoples
Speaker 1: of these countries, both past and present.