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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, there's one path. Go to school, get good grades,

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Speaker 2: get it in university, get a successful, high paying job,

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Speaker 2: have a big mortgage, woman a fancy suburb, drive a

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Speaker 2: nice car. And we've got to reject that it's unhealthy

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Speaker 2: at every level for ninety percent of the population.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mom

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: I want to say something that's very important right before. No,

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Speaker 2: it's not actually that important. I'm making it sound like

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Speaker 2: it's a major announcement. It's not. But if you listen

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Speaker 2: to yesterday's interview with Paul Dylan about kids going to

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Speaker 2: school is especially in Bali, and heard the conversation that

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Speaker 2: I had with him about how we have a daughter

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Speaker 2: who's thinking back going to Bali because she's only got

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Speaker 2: one exam to go and she can't wait for school

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Speaker 2: to be over so she can celebrate two things.

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Speaker 3: First of all, you kind of made it sound like

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Speaker 3: she was heating over their tip partie.

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Speaker 2: No, I reckon, Paul made it sound like she was

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Speaker 2: heading over there to party.

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Speaker 3: I did nearly die when I heard the interview the

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Speaker 3: reality is she was going over with a friend, yes,

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Speaker 3: and the family a handful of friends. But the family

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Speaker 3: was going through.

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Speaker 2: The family holiday for schoolies. Yeah so, but but Barley's

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Speaker 2: off the agenda. Anyway, that didn't work out, and we've

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Speaker 2: discovered in the last twenty four hours that she's going

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Speaker 2: to stay local and do something really small and really

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Speaker 2: away from all of the drama and all the hype.

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Speaker 2: And I'm breathing so much easier, she's I'm glad.

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Speaker 3: You're breathing so much easier, because I'm still not. So

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Speaker 3: it's still a big deal to let your eighteen year

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Speaker 3: old just walk out the door and disappear for a week.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. We've done it a couple of times already though,

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Speaker 2: And she's a great kid, and her intentions and her

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Speaker 2: friends are both excellent. So if you have an older child,

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Speaker 2: maybe one finishing year twelve, who's thinking about school is,

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Speaker 2: you've got to listen to yesterday's interview with Paul Dylan. Anyway, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: Today we're answering the question that we were supposed to

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Speaker 2: answer yesterday, but for a range of reasons, we had

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Speaker 2: to talk to Paul yesterday. So let me read this

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Speaker 2: question to you from one of our Happy Families listeners who, oh,

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Speaker 2: you know what I need to say this. I just

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Speaker 2: our stats yesterday with our podcast people. We're closing in

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Speaker 2: on we have people. We have we have podcast people,

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Speaker 2: people who look after things. Two things, two things. First

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Speaker 2: of all, we've been nominated and been pushed through as

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Speaker 2: a finalist for Best Parenting Podcast in Australia with the

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Speaker 2: upcoming Australian Podcast Awards which are just a couple of

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Speaker 2: weeks away now. So we're in the mix with five

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Speaker 2: other top Aussie podcasts. Who are they a competition? We've

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Speaker 2: got our mate and his dad podcast star Power right there. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we're up against Usher. Our friend Maggie Dent and her

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Speaker 2: ABC Parental as Anything podcast is another one of our competitors.

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Speaker 2: There is a podcast that's out there called My Bilingual Family,

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Speaker 2: which is a podcast that I haven't listened to. I

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Speaker 2: don't know what it's like, but it's about parents are

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Speaker 2: speaking one language and kids are speaking another. Sometimes I

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Speaker 2: think they could be any family, but yeah, we're talking

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Speaker 2: specifically about families where people have got English as a

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Speaker 2: second language as the adults, the parents in the family,

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Speaker 2: but the kids of growing up here in Australia with

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Speaker 2: English as their main language. There's a podcast called No

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Speaker 2: Need for Prince Charming. I have no idea what that

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Speaker 2: one's about. And the Tired Mummy Podcast. I think the

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Speaker 2: title says everything when it comes to the Bear parenting podcast,

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Speaker 2: the Tired Mummy podcast. So they're are there are competitors.

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Speaker 2: I wish them all very well. I think the fact

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Speaker 2: that we've got that many great parenting podcasts around who

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Speaker 2: have made it to the finals, not to mention all

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Speaker 2: the ones that didn't, pretty cool stuff. So the Australian

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Speaker 2: Podcast Awards coming up soon where a finalist hopefully will

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Speaker 2: be a winner one day. Maybe.

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Speaker 3: I think it's just pretty cool that we're sounding the

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Speaker 3: same line ass to be honest.

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Speaker 2: Right well, whether we get whether we make the what

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Speaker 2: are you saying? You just want to be an Ash's line?

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Speaker 2: Is that what you're saying? Chisel Joy, that's fabulous hair.

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Speaker 2: His hair is just always perfect, that gravelly voice for.

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Speaker 3: This stay at home mum. I think it's pretty cool.

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Speaker 2: Okay, Kylie, let's talk about today's podcast. But what I

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Speaker 2: was going to say is three million. We're closing in

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Speaker 2: on three million downloads for the year.

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Speaker 3: That's crazy because only a couple of months ago you

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Speaker 3: told me that we'd hit the two million.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, it's absolutely skyrocketing. So to everyone who's listening,

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Speaker 2: thank you for making us as popular as we are.

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Speaker 2: I guess in that there's that many downloads, but also

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Speaker 2: that we're a finalist. We just so appreciate that you

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Speaker 2: listen and get something out of the podcast, and that

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Speaker 2: it makes you family happier. It's great. I want to

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Speaker 2: talk about our question for today because it's a really,

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Speaker 2: I think, really important question that's come through from somebody

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Speaker 2: who's dealing with the child with a whole lot of needs.

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Speaker 2: But even if your kids don't have needs, my sense

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Speaker 2: is you'll really relate to aspects of this question. So

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Speaker 2: this comes from Mandy, who asks, I've been listening to

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Speaker 2: your podcast for a while now. I tend to binge

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Speaker 2: listen when I get time on my own in the car.

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Speaker 2: My daughter has many challenges with ADHD and autism and

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Speaker 2: now to add to the collection of labels, dyslexia. She's

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Speaker 2: only eight years old and really a happy child. I've

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Speaker 2: had to challenge my own thinking lately of what a happy,

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Speaker 2: fulfilled life is. I've always thought as long as she

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Speaker 2: can read and write, she'll be fine. But I'm now

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Speaker 2: stuck as this may not happen for her. She may

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Speaker 2: not read and write efficiently, and what does that mean

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Speaker 2: for her? This latest diagnosis is new and what I'm

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Speaker 2: finding difficult to accept, maybe because I yet to educate

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Speaker 2: myself about it. My question is when a child has

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Speaker 2: so many challenges, how do I explain these to her?

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Speaker 2: We've spoken about her ADHD because she's medicated, and for

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Speaker 2: her to understand and take the meds, I needed to

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Speaker 2: explain how they help her, what's in it for her.

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Speaker 2: I'm yet to talk about autism or the dyslexia with her.

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Speaker 2: My worst fear is that she thinks she's stupid. How

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Speaker 2: do you talk about a diagnosis with a child when

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Speaker 2: do you know that they're ready to understand? Some really

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Speaker 2: important questions there, Kylie and I'm excited to spend the

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Speaker 2: rest of this podcast answering Mandy's questions.

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Speaker 3: When we arrived back in Brisbane nearly six years ago,

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Speaker 3: I made friends with a lady and she loves reading,

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Speaker 3: and so we got talking about all the different kinds

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Speaker 3: of books that she was reading and I shared some

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Speaker 3: of the ones I was reading. And it wasn't actually

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Speaker 3: until our friendship grew that I came to understand that

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Speaker 3: I came to know that she actually has dyslexia. I

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Speaker 3: would never have known that based on the conversations we

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Speaker 3: were having and the kinds of books that she'd been reading.

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Speaker 3: As our friendship continued to grow, I learned that her

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Speaker 3: son had dyslexia. She pulled him out of mainstream school

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Speaker 3: and was able to spend a couple of years with

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Speaker 3: him at home. He was extremely behind, and just recently

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Speaker 3: after COVID he was able to go back into mainstream

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Speaker 3: and is doing exceptionally well. And as I listened to

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Speaker 3: Mandy's questions, and there's so heartfelt, this deep desire for

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Speaker 3: her child to live a fulfilling life, what I see

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Speaker 3: is so often it's our own fears that stop us

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Speaker 3: from seeing outside the box and seeing that there actually

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Speaker 3: is potential for that. Just in a completely different way.

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Speaker 3: We have this, you know, kind of this mindset that

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Speaker 3: there's one road to success, there's one way to do things.

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Speaker 3: But there are plenty of people that have got any

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Speaker 3: one of those labels or all of them and are

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Speaker 3: able to live fulfilling lives. So today, hopefully we can

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Speaker 3: give Mandy some hope.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 3: So I guess Mandy's main question is how do I

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Speaker 3: explain this to my child.

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Speaker 2: Mandy's done a great job already of talking to her

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Speaker 2: daughter about the need for medication. Yeah, because of the ADHD.

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Speaker 2: I'm always into minds when it comes to talking to

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Speaker 2: children about their additional needs, because what they don't know

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Speaker 2: doesn't hurt them quite often. That is, when they've got

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Speaker 2: the label, it's easy to live into that. It's easy

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Speaker 2: to make it part of the identity that they integrate

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Speaker 2: into themselves. Oh, I can't do this because I have

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Speaker 2: dyslex here, and I'm more tisted and I'm therefore less than.

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Speaker 2: And that's that's the last thing that we want for

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Speaker 2: our kids, because they're not less than, but unfortunately it

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Speaker 2: can it can feel like that for them. Nevertheless, we

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Speaker 2: also know that sometimes being aware of what those additional

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Speaker 2: needs are, being aware of that diagnosis helps children to

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Speaker 2: understand their world differently better and also understand why they

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Speaker 2: are dealing with what's happening in class, for example, or

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Speaker 2: what's happening in a certain context in a different way

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Speaker 2: to those around them. My inclination is to sit down

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Speaker 2: and identify that this is a challenge. We've noticed that

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Speaker 2: reading is hard. When we were talking to the doctor,

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Speaker 2: the doctor said that you have something called dyslexia, and

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Speaker 2: this is what it is. So no gimmicks, no shortcuts,

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Speaker 2: just straight up here's what it is. And then ask

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Speaker 2: your child how that makes them feel. I mean, we've

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Speaker 2: got a we've got a pretty happy eight year old here,

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Speaker 2: so hopefully this little girl is going to say I'm

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Speaker 2: a bit sad but okay. And then as a parent,

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Speaker 2: your job is to build hope. So this is the

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Speaker 2: bit where we say, so we know lots of people

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Speaker 2: who have dyslexia. They can all read, they all function well,

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Speaker 2: they've all got happy lives, they're all making a contribution.

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Speaker 2: And this doesn't have to hold you back. This doesn't

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Speaker 2: have to change anything. It just means that we have

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Speaker 2: to work a little bit harder. This means that you

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Speaker 2: have to be a bit stronger than the other kids.

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Speaker 2: They don't have to do all the hard things that

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Speaker 2: you do. And the focus there is if we put

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Speaker 2: in the effort, if we do the work, if we

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Speaker 2: do the extra tutoring, or where if we spend the

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Speaker 2: extra time with you, You're going to be able to

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Speaker 2: do this. You'll be able to turn into an adult

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Speaker 2: who loves to read, who's able to contribute, who's able

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Speaker 2: to do all these things. So that would be the

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Speaker 2: central focus of where I'd be going. I'm less encouraging

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Speaker 2: of sharing the autism diagnosis too early. I think that

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Speaker 2: she's got enough on her plate with ADHD and dyslexia,

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Speaker 2: and if we can spend the time in the relationship,

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Speaker 2: spend the time developing those other skills and attributes, I

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Speaker 2: think that in time, what's going to happen is Mandy's

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Speaker 2: little girl is go to work things out reasonably well,

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Speaker 2: feel reasonably competent. And that's what we're really looking for here, competence.

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Speaker 2: When a child feels capable, the labels don't matter. When

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Speaker 2: a child feels like they're able to do things, like

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Speaker 2: they have the capacity to do things. It's that basic

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Speaker 2: psychological need of competence and mastery. When the child feels

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Speaker 2: those things, then the labels become irrelevant. I might have ADHD,

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Speaker 2: but I can still do this, this, and this. I

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Speaker 2: might be dyslexic, but I can still read as well

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Speaker 2: as anyone in my grade, because competence begets confidence. So

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Speaker 2: that's where I'd be focusing in terms of having the conversation,

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Speaker 2: a gentle conversation with the emphasis on we can do this,

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Speaker 2: we can work hard, and we can find solutions to

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Speaker 2: make you stronger.

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Speaker 3: So one of the things I loved about my friend

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Speaker 3: and her situation was she didn't actually know she had

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Speaker 3: dyslexia as a young kid. She just couldn't she couldn't

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Speaker 3: work out why she couldn't understand the words on the page.

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Speaker 3: But her mom just read to her all the time,

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Speaker 3: just completely immersed her in words and books until the

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Speaker 3: point that she became so motivated, yeah, to read them herself,

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Speaker 3: that she would stay up plate under the covers with

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Speaker 3: the torch to try and decipher what her mum had

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Speaker 3: read and what the words said on the page.

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Speaker 2: Kylie. The human brain is incredible. We talk about plasticity.

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Speaker 2: There's that book from maybe ten or fifteen years ago

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Speaker 2: now by Norman Deutge called The Brain That Changes Itself,

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Speaker 2: all about plasticity. The brain is incredible. When I hear

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Speaker 2: you tell a story like that about a dyslexic girl

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Speaker 2: with a torch under the covers reading the amount of effort,

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Speaker 2: the amount of work, the challenge of that must be incredible,

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Speaker 2: must be incredible for her, and yet she finds it

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Speaker 2: so fulfilling, so rewarding that she's willing to move that mountain.

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Speaker 2: I just think it's amazing. And we have a daughter

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Speaker 2: who has some additional it. She doesn't have dyslexia, but

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Speaker 2: ties in with the next thing that is really important

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Speaker 2: for Mandy in terms of reading, for example, I really

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Speaker 2: want my children to read great books, excellent literature, books

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Speaker 2: that will change their lives, change their thinking, shape their world.

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Speaker 2: I want them to read the very best stuff that's

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Speaker 2: out there at eight. I don't care what age they are,

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Speaker 2: just want reading great literature. And our daughter wants to

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Speaker 2: read Pokemon and Wings of Fire. And there's part of

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Speaker 2: me who part of me sort of chafes and great

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Speaker 2: against this, and things come on. We've got all these

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Speaker 2: books on our shelves that are so good, and you

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Speaker 2: want to read that, And then I give myself a

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Speaker 2: quick uppercut and get out of the way and say

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Speaker 2: that she is reading. And we're talking about an eight

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Speaker 2: year old with additional needs who's reading what three hundred

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Speaker 2: page books with small print.

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Speaker 3: We had to do a trip to Brisbane the other day.

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Speaker 3: It's an hour and a half's drive, and she asked

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Speaker 3: me specifically to go to the bookstore to get her

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Speaker 3: a book because she didn't want to sit in the

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Speaker 3: car and look out the window for an hour and

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Speaker 3: a half.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're not going to let us sit on

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Speaker 2: a screen read. And so I guess what I'm really

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Speaker 2: highlighting here. And we've got another friend who's got a

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Speaker 2: child with massive delays in terms of autism and speech

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Speaker 2: and language and all that kind of thing. And he's

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Speaker 2: now in his early twenties, and he writes comics, he

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Speaker 2: writes graphic novels. And I guess that that kind of

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Speaker 2: highlights this is really about expectation setting. What does what

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Speaker 2: does the community, the school, the broader society say is expected?

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Speaker 2: There's one path go to school, get good grades, get

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Speaker 2: it to university, get a successful, high paying job, have

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Speaker 2: a big mortgage, live in a fancy suburb, drive and

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Speaker 2: nized car. And we've got to reject that. It's just

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Speaker 2: it's unhealthy at every level. For ninety percent of the population,

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Speaker 2: it's is it realistic? Is it achievable? Absolutely for a

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Speaker 2: large percentage of people, But is it healthy and in

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Speaker 2: everybody's best interest. No, if you've got a healthy, developing child,

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Speaker 2: you don't want them to get into first or second

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Speaker 2: or third year UNI or finish UNI and say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I've got a medical degree or I'm a lawyer. But

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Speaker 2: I actually hate it because when I was in school,

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Speaker 2: I really really just want to to I don't know,

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Speaker 2: read Pokemon. You read Pokemon or play bill boats like

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Speaker 2: I love the ocean, or I want to I want

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Speaker 2: to paint. I was going to say I want to

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Speaker 2: I want to art. That's not a word. I want

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Speaker 2: I want.

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Speaker 3: To paint and to be creative or dance.

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Speaker 2: And here we are saying, well, you know what, the

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Speaker 2: creative arts. You're know we're going to make any money

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Speaker 2: in that you need to go and get your special degree.

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Speaker 2: It's just so changing, stepping back from that expectation that

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Speaker 2: society has. That's the first thing. The second one is

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Speaker 2: the expectation that you have. And I feel like your

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Speaker 2: Mandy has done a really nice job here of saying

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Speaker 2: I just wanted to be able to read and write efficiently.

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Speaker 2: That's that's great. But now maybe we're going to say

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Speaker 2: I want her to find joy in her life. I

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Speaker 2: want her to find things that light her up. And

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Speaker 2: what is her expectation. What's your daughter's expectation for herself.

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Speaker 2: I think that's so important.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, the thing that stands out to me when

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Speaker 3: I listen to Mandy's story is just the fact that

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Speaker 3: she's got this really happy eight year old. She's happy,

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Speaker 3: and she's living in her own little world of fulfillment

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Speaker 3: and joy. And now we've got these labels and we've

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Speaker 3: got to try and navigate them. But I look at

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Speaker 3: our eight year old and the challenges that we've had

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Speaker 3: with her, and for the most part, she doesn't know

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Speaker 3: that she's any different to anyone else. Yes, that's right,

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Speaker 3: she's oblivious to it, and there may come a time

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Speaker 3: we will have to have conversations with her about that,

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Speaker 3: But for the most part, she is completely oblivious to

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Speaker 3: the fact that she has extra challenges and that it's

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Speaker 3: harder for her to do things.

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Speaker 2: Such a great point. I'm so grateful that you brought

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Speaker 2: that up. I think what we probably need to focus

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Speaker 2: on in the last maybe minute and a half two

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Speaker 2: minutes of the podcast is just what we can do,

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Speaker 2: what Mandy can do, and what any parent can do

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Speaker 2: when their child is not looking like they are going

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Speaker 2: to follow a traditional path because they have additional needs,

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Speaker 2: or they have interests that lay outside of the standard

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Speaker 2: the standardized path that has been established for the majority

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Speaker 2: of kids. So the first thing that I want to

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Speaker 2: emphasize is we want to consider educational options. Not everyone

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Speaker 2: has the flexibility to homeschool or to provide an alternative

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Speaker 2: form of education, even if it's just extra tutoring, But

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Speaker 2: to the extent that you've got that capacity, I would

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Speaker 2: say a child who has all these additional needs would

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Speaker 2: definitely benefit from some kind of additional or alternative educational

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Speaker 2: option if that's not possible, and I recognize for many

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Speaker 2: people it just isn't practical at all. What you said earlier, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: reading and reading and reading time, and when you're not

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Speaker 2: reading time in the relationship, the more you can be

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Speaker 2: kicking the footy down at the park, or throwing the

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Speaker 2: ball through the hoop, or riding bikes or walking along

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Speaker 2: the beach or the wherever it is that you go

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Speaker 2: for recreation time, that kind of thing is going to

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Speaker 2: make a huge difference.

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Speaker 3: So finding fun ways to actually extend and support their learning,

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Speaker 3: so it doesn't actually feel like they're learning. Is going

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Speaker 3: to be so beneficial without them even recognizing that they've

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Speaker 3: got a death for sit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's the beauty of the whole reading thing.

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Speaker 2: You're just reading because you love to read together. The

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Speaker 2: second thing that I would talk about or suggest is

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Speaker 2: that you actually have conversations together and ask, well, is

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Speaker 2: this actually a problem? You might have ADHD? But is

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Speaker 2: that actually a problem You might have dyslexia? But is

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Speaker 2: that a problem You could do a Google and find

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Speaker 2: a whole lot of people who have been enormous successors

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Speaker 2: who have ADHD. In fact, just while I've been saying

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Speaker 2: that I was typing at the same time, and I've

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Speaker 2: typed in successful people with dyslexia. Let me read the

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Speaker 2: list of successful people with dyslexia. Richard Branson, Tom Cruise,

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Speaker 2: Orlando Bloom, Jennifer Aniston, Leonardo da Vinci, Salamahayek, will Be Goldberg,

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Speaker 2: Stephen Spielberg, Sir Henry Winkler. That was Phonsie Walt Disney,

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Speaker 2: Steve Jobs, Keanu Reeves, Jay Leno, Jamie Oliver, Thomas, Edison,

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Speaker 2: Albert Einstein, Albert einste For goodness sakes, has come up

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Speaker 2: as somebody with dyslexia. Now I don't know how right

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Speaker 2: Google is, but that's what's come up. Kira Knightley, John Lenha,

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Speaker 2: Muhammad Ali, Winston Churchill, Daniel Radcliffe, Noel Gallagher. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the list is enormous, Michael Phelps. It just keeps going

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Speaker 2: and going and going. When you talk to your kids

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Speaker 2: and say, yes, you have these additional needs. But is

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Speaker 2: it a problem? Was it a problem for these people?

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Speaker 2: It probably was, But what they did is they worked

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Speaker 2: really hard, and they probably had some amazing resources, but

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Speaker 2: they've done amazing things. So inspire them with the stories

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Speaker 2: of those people who are just like them. Outside of that,

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Speaker 2: a couple of other things I reckon create some structure.

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Speaker 2: So here's what we're going to do. If we're going

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Speaker 2: to help you, we need to make sure that we're

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Speaker 2: doing these things not in a chore kind of fashion,

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Speaker 2: but rather because we want to be supportive. We're normalizing it,

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Speaker 2: we're finding those role models that I've mentioned. And the

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Speaker 2: last thing is let's just emphasize that there are all

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Speaker 2: kinds of intelligences. One of the things that struck me

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Speaker 2: most when I was way back doing my undergraduate psychology

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Speaker 2: degree was a guy called Howard Gardner who identified that

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Speaker 2: intelligence isn't just a thing. It's not like you're either

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Speaker 2: smart or you're not. Gardner found that he identified multiple intelligences.

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Speaker 2: And there's all sorts of theories around multiple intelligences these days.

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Speaker 2: But Kylie, some kids have got spatial intelligence, some have

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Speaker 2: bodily or kinesthetic intelligence, some kids have musical intelligence, or

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Speaker 2: linguistic intelligence, or naturalistic intelligence, or intrapersonal intelligence, or interpersonal intelligence,

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Speaker 2: or logical and mathematical skills intelligence, and the list goes on.

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Speaker 2: They were just the aid that Gardener came up with.

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Speaker 2: If you do a quick Google and try to find

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Speaker 2: different forms of intelligences, you'll be amazed at what's there.

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Speaker 2: I think we've got to just work so hard to

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Speaker 2: not pigeonholer kids and say, well, you've got additional needs.

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Speaker 2: Therefore you're going to struggle for the rest of your life.

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Speaker 2: Not true, not fair, far too limiting, and Mandy, I

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Speaker 2: hope that we've been able to answer your question helpfully.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Rulin from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and if

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Speaker 2: you'd like more and fol about making your family happier.

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00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:06,960
Speaker 2: We would love for you to visit us at happyfamilies

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00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,159
Speaker 2: dot com DOTU where you can find out about a

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Speaker 2: brand new free course normally seventy four dollars. They're offering

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Speaker 2: it to you for free right now. Just jump onto

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00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:18,640
Speaker 2: our Happy Family's Facebook page. Doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families,

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00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:23,440
Speaker 2: It's all about the Timeout alternative. Seven days to move

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00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,879
Speaker 2: away from timeout as your motors operandi and find better

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Speaker 2: ways to raise a happy family