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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory government will they're twenty five percent cap

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Speaker 1: on alcohol sales imposed on corner stores. It is forcing

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Speaker 1: many to shut shop to meet the requirements, with fears

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Speaker 1: growing from owners that they could soon go out of business. Now,

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Speaker 1: it's something we've spoken about on the show a number

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Speaker 1: of times with operators like Shelley Lay from zicola IgA.

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Speaker 1: But the owner of Mataranka Supermarket, well Tony Kutchke, joins

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Speaker 1: me on the line right now. Good morning to you, Tony.

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Speaker 2: Hey Katie, how are you going?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really good. Thank you so much for your time, Tony.

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Speaker 1: What impact is this cap on liquor sales having on

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Speaker 1: you guys at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's having a huge impact to Tea the truth

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Speaker 2: and that's why we are speaking out. We're usually the

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Speaker 2: quiet ones that sit in the corner and don't really

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Speaker 2: say much. But I think that met time that everyone

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Speaker 2: found out that these small corner stores are struggling and

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Speaker 2: they're struggling financially. We've had moments where we we've sort

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Speaker 2: of had to work out how we're going to pay

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Speaker 2: wages from week to week to our staff. We've had

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Speaker 2: to cut back on staff. Earlier on the year we've

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Speaker 2: had to I've gone without wages for probably three months

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Speaker 2: of this year, and probably we'll do for the next

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Speaker 2: month while we're closed or our bottle shop is closed

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Speaker 2: for November. It's having a huge impact, not just financially

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Speaker 2: but mentally as well. It's sort of where through their

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Speaker 2: generation in our market and so it is our life.

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Speaker 2: And I think that if we are going to be

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Speaker 2: sacrificed for a twenty five rule on alcohol, I need

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Speaker 2: to see that it's been for a reason, and I

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Speaker 2: need to know that the reason is a good one

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Speaker 2: and that it's having a huge impact and it's not

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Speaker 2: just been a decision that's been made to be seen

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Speaker 2: to be doing something about alcohol problems in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: So tiny on that when you guys are closed and

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Speaker 1: when people can't actually come and purchase alcohol from you,

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Speaker 1: does it mean that people are going without alcohol or

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Speaker 1: does it mean that they're traveling to other places to

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Speaker 1: get it?

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Speaker 2: Oh, they're definitely traveling to other places. Just because we're

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Speaker 2: closed doesn't mean that their alcohol supply stops. It just

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Speaker 2: means that it's transferred from a small business to possibly

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Speaker 2: a larger business than Catherine. So We've even had staff

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Speaker 2: at our workshop that have knocked off early to go

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Speaker 2: one hundred kilometers to get a cart and a beer

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Speaker 2: for after work. So wow, a pub. We do have

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Speaker 2: a hotel in town, and I think it's important to

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Speaker 2: note that, but they don't have an extensive botto shop

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Speaker 2: like we do and offer the prices that we do

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Speaker 2: with over counter prices pretty much.

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Speaker 1: So now at this point, how often are you having

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Speaker 1: to close? Oh?

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Speaker 2: God, it's all over the place at either truth, we

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Speaker 2: started off by reducing the amount of items that someone

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Speaker 2: could purchase to two items per person in any one sale,

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Speaker 2: and then we'd reduce it to one item per person,

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Speaker 2: and then we started closing for a week at the

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Speaker 2: end of the month, and then we stopped that and

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Speaker 2: just decided to close every Wednesday, and then we still

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Speaker 2: had to close for a week at the end of

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Speaker 2: the month. But there's just been trial and error the

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Speaker 2: whole time. We were given this this rule or this

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Speaker 2: law that we have to abide by, but we were

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Speaker 2: never given any guidelines as to how we're going to

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Speaker 2: meet that yeah five percent. Unfortunately, and to tee the truth,

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Speaker 2: there was no research done for these businesses to establish

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Speaker 2: whether they would still exist after the twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: rule was introduced, So you know, we were sort of

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Speaker 2: handflled this and said this is the law now and

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Speaker 2: you have to abide by it, but there's no support

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Speaker 2: there to help you to achieve what you need to achieve.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, like at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: if these big rules are going to be changing, you

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Speaker 1: would think at the very least that there can be

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Speaker 1: a bit of support provided to make sure that it's

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Speaker 1: it's an easier process. But I think the point you

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Speaker 1: made earlier isn't even more important. One is you know,

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Speaker 1: is there evidence to actually show that reducing what corner

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Speaker 1: store wants can sell, that that's actually making a difference.

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Speaker 1: Then when it comes to the impact alcohols having more broadly.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's what I'm hoping you can find out to

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Speaker 2: see the truth because it's been infinitely two years now

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Speaker 2: or just over two years, that they should have some

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Speaker 2: figures by now to suggest that what they're doing to

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Speaker 2: these corner stores has had a huge impact and they're

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Speaker 2: willing to continue on with what they're doing at the

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Speaker 2: sacrifice of these family businesses.

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Speaker 1: Tony a question from a listener. I'm saying or can

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Speaker 1: we ask you how like with the with the pub nearby,

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Speaker 1: how many cartons? Or you know what can the hotels

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Speaker 1: sell compared to you guys?

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Speaker 2: The hotel's not restricted at all, and neither are the

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Speaker 2: Woolworths and the large bottle shops and captain. So our

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Speaker 2: sales are still sales. That hasn't reduced any any social

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Speaker 2: behavior in Matterranka, hasn't reduced any crime rates anywhere in

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Speaker 2: the Northern territory. All it's done is shift with our

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Speaker 2: sales to a larger outlet.

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Speaker 1: I know there'll be some people listening, you know, on

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Speaker 1: the other side of the fence, going oh, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: at least it means that there's a reduced level of

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Speaker 1: alcohol out there in the community. But the fact is

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Speaker 1: it doesn't necessarily mean that, does it.

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Speaker 2: No, it's a pointless law, to see the truth like,

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Speaker 2: it stems from a much deeper place and a much

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Speaker 2: more complex problem than a corner store that sells some liquor.

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Speaker 2: And we are like any business in a small town

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Speaker 2: or remote area needs to have a diverse amount of

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Speaker 2: products that you sell, and so ours just happens to

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Speaker 2: be groceries and alcohol, which happens to be a controversial

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Speaker 2: topic in the Northern Territory, but we are a responsible seller.

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Speaker 2: We look at our community and see what's happening in

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Speaker 2: the community, and we do accommodate that. If there's a

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Speaker 2: funeral that's in town, we don't sell alcohol on that day.

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Speaker 2: If we notice there's a lot of people from out

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Speaker 2: of town that have come into our town, a lot

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Speaker 2: of times we'll either close the bottle shop or restrict

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Speaker 2: it down. There's so many things that we do to

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Speaker 2: accommodate it because we care about our community. But you

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Speaker 2: know the bigger bottle shops don't do that well.

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Speaker 1: And you're part of the community, right you just said

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Speaker 1: that your third generation at the supermarket out there, like

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Speaker 1: you're part of the community.

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Speaker 2: Oh one hundred percent. And I mean we have had

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Speaker 2: to introduce things into the supermarket, like selling things like

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Speaker 2: fridges and freezes and fishing shirts, and like the supermarket

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Speaker 2: is starting to look a little bit different now, so

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Speaker 2: that we're going to have higher price items that we're

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Speaker 2: trying to sell to try and bring our sales up.

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Speaker 2: Because if someone comes and buys a loaf of bread,

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Speaker 2: a bottle of milk and a cartner beer, which is

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Speaker 2: a common sale in our supermarket, then the bread is

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Speaker 2: six dollars, the milk six dollars, of the Cartner beer

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Speaker 2: sixty five dollars. There's no way that an honest sale

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Speaker 2: like that is going to come to twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: of our sales for our grocery.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Tony, look where to from here? I mean, how

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Speaker 1: real is the prospect that you might have to close

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Speaker 1: and that the community he no longer has a supermarket.

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Speaker 2: Hanging on by a thread? Oh my, you know, we've

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Speaker 2: had We've had no support from the current government at all.

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Speaker 2: I've spoken to Joe Hersey and Marie Claire Boothby, which

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Speaker 2: both took our issues to Parliament, which was really great

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Speaker 2: and I've got some really good feedback from them, But

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Speaker 2: there's been no support from our current government to come

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Speaker 2: out to third generation stores like myself or I think

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Speaker 2: that Waggot Beaches having a fairly hard time at the

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Speaker 2: moment as well, to sort of say hey, guys, you know, like,

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Speaker 2: is there anything that we can do to help you

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Speaker 2: get through this or help you know, get a financial

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Speaker 2: planna to come down and this issue with your books

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Speaker 2: to see what we might be able to do to

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Speaker 2: change it, or that this laws just doesn't make sense

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Speaker 2: and we're just going to go back to the fifty

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Speaker 2: percent ins of the twenty five percent. I think at

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Speaker 2: the beginning they said you need to be grateful that

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Speaker 2: it wasn't the fifteen percent that was recommended by the

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Speaker 2: Riley reviewing. That's sort of irredible.

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Speaker 1: And you know, like, I want to went out here

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Speaker 1: as well, Tony, because I know that some people listening

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Speaker 1: might again they might be going, Okay, well, you're a supermarket,

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Speaker 1: not a not a liquor store. But at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, you know you've been running like you've

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Speaker 1: had this supermarket for three generations. You've been running it

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Speaker 1: like the family has been running it for a long time.

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Speaker 1: And these rules are only new rules. So you have

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Speaker 1: a business model that you're working with it, and then

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Speaker 1: that whole business model is thrown out the window through

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Speaker 1: no decision of your own. It's forced upon you.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Usually in a small business the owner

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Speaker 2: may fail or may go broke, or may close, but

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Speaker 2: as usually as a result of something that's happened dramatically

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Speaker 2: or that you know the owner's made a bad decision.

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Speaker 2: But in this instance, it's not a decision that we've made.

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Speaker 2: It's not a bad decision that we've made. We've been

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Speaker 2: a really, you know, quite a good supermarket since nineteen

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Speaker 2: sixty eight, and you know, the structure hasn't changed at all.

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Speaker 2: I explained it to someone the other day that it

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Speaker 2: would be like Madeika has three service stations in town,

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Speaker 2: and it would be as as if the government can

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Speaker 2: into one of those service stations and said, we're having

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Speaker 2: too many car accidents and we need to reduce the

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Speaker 2: amount of car accidents that we have in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 2: So what we're going to do is your fuel sales

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Speaker 2: can now only be twenty five percent of the total

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Speaker 2: sales of your business. All right, sorry about that, Well,

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Speaker 2: not really sorry, but that's how it's going to be.

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Speaker 2: The other two businesses in town's not going to be affected.

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Speaker 2: Neither there is anyone in Catherine Dawe and or Ala Springs.

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Speaker 2: So just see how you go with it. And if

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Speaker 2: you go over that twenty five percent, you've broken the law.

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Speaker 2: And it's blatant. It's not it's not black gray, it's

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Speaker 2: black and white.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Tony, you know, have you considered the government's offer

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Speaker 1: of a liquor license buyback.

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Speaker 2: We looked into that most definitely, because we were struggling

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Speaker 2: by the time that that offer was put to us,

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Speaker 2: and we talked to our accountant about it. But our

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Speaker 2: accountant said that that amount of money would only have

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Speaker 2: lasted or kept the supermarket of float for a certain

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Speaker 2: period of time, and then we would be in a

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Speaker 2: worse predicament after that. Wow, we weren't able to accept

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Speaker 2: that offer, and it would be interesting to find out

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Speaker 2: if anyone accepted the offer. I haven't heard anything since

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Speaker 2: they put the buyback scheme out as to whether any

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Speaker 2: of the outlets actually accepted any of the offers that

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Speaker 2: we're on the board.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd be very interested to know. And look, if

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Speaker 1: there is any other supermarket operators out there that do

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Speaker 1: want to get in contact with us and let us

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Speaker 1: know you most certainly can Tony where to from here

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Speaker 1: for you guys at this point, so, like.

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Speaker 2: I mentioned, we've just reduced down staff. I won't get

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Speaker 2: paid for the next month. We're looking at getting a

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Speaker 2: few more white goods into the supermarket because you know,

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Speaker 2: you can, you know, sometimes put a fifty dollars markup

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Speaker 2: on some of those items and just wear the freight

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Speaker 2: that we're just trying whatever we can. We don't know,

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Speaker 2: we don't know what's around the corner, and we're just

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Speaker 2: about to come into our quiet season. So I may

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Speaker 2: be here in January, I may not. Really just have

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Speaker 2: to wait and see.

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Speaker 1: What's it going to mean though for the community. If

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Speaker 1: you guys do have to close.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be pretty sad because we are the

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Speaker 2: only supermarket for some members of the community, so they

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Speaker 2: do do all of their shopping here. Obviously, a lot

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Speaker 2: of the locals will travel to Catherine to go to

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Speaker 2: Woolworth to do their main shop and just pop up

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Speaker 2: with the supermarket, and that they're the people that usually

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Speaker 2: come in and get their bread, their milk and their

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Speaker 2: cart and a beer, a bottle of wine and so yeah,

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Speaker 2: in history, you know, it has been. It's the hard

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Speaker 2: of matter ancor really so I don't know how to

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Speaker 2: affect it, but yeah, it's affecting us majorly.

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Speaker 1: Well Tony. We'll try our best to, you know, to

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Speaker 1: continue to ask questions about this. We've got the week

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Speaker 1: that was tomorrow where all the Polley's come in and

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Speaker 1: debate the different different topics. So I'll make sure we

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Speaker 1: raise it and we'll see what we can find out.

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Speaker 2: And we'll be listening.

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Speaker 1: Thank you very much, no worries, Tony, I really appreciate

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Speaker 1: you speaking to me this morning. Thanks so much for

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, thanks Katie, thank you