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Speaker 1: I read with interest in the paper this morning a

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Speaker 1: forty thousand dollar fee for a certificate to install a

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Speaker 1: shade sale. Has the Northern Territories Local Government Association open

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Speaker 1: to consultation, they say, around a review on the NT

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Speaker 1: Sacred Sites Act, But they say that they've not been

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Speaker 1: approached yet. Now the Planning, Lands and Environment Minister, as

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Speaker 1: we know, Josh Burgoyne, he joined us on the show

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Speaker 1: a couple of weeks ago when he introduced those amendments

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Speaker 1: to the nineteen eighty nine NT Sacred Sites Act, and

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Speaker 1: he introduced those to Parliament. Now what we also know

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Speaker 1: is the Local Government Association's NT President, Convat Scalis, had

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Speaker 1: said the Association was yet to be approached about that review,

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Speaker 1: but it certainly seems like it would be a good

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Speaker 1: idea for those constructive discussions to be had. Joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio is the CEO of the Local Government

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Speaker 1: Association of the Northern Territory, Mary Watson. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Mary, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: It's lovely to have you on the show. Thank you

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Speaker 1: for your time. Now, first off, can you tell me

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Speaker 1: what the situation was with that shade sale?

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Speaker 2: Yes, sure, so that's part of the application process for certificates.

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Speaker 2: So councils, just like anybody else, need to apply for

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Speaker 2: a certificate.

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Speaker 1: So applied for the certificate and then there and so

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Speaker 1: there's a fee. Then when you get that certificate. I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming can that cost change depending on the project.

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Speaker 2: It can do. And I've got a couple of examples

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Speaker 2: if you want to hear them. So yeah, there's that example.

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Speaker 2: There's another example of a council wanting to do some

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Speaker 2: repairs on a walking track that cost again about thirty

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars. The project itself was only thirty five so

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Speaker 2: that's nearly double the cost of the project. So it

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Speaker 2: seems to be the standard cost is about thirty thousand,

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Speaker 2: and then there is this extra cost often where that

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Speaker 2: there is a request for the traditional owners to look

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Speaker 2: over or be on site to watch the project. That

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Speaker 2: is an open ended costs at the moment. So we

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Speaker 2: are really looking to see some timeframes, awesome scheduling put

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Speaker 2: around those costs so that councils are clear on what

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Speaker 2: they will be and it's not an open ended project.

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Speaker 1: Mary to put it in real I guess you know

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Speaker 1: Layman's terms for our listeners. So when the council for example,

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Speaker 1: whichever council it may be across the Northern Territory is

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Speaker 1: doing a project. If it is in an area where

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Speaker 1: there may be a sacred site, obviously they're then going

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Speaker 1: through the process with APPA. Is that correct? And so

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Speaker 1: what sort of happens next?

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Speaker 2: What sort of happens next?

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Speaker 1: Yes, so they have to put in it, like put

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Speaker 1: in an application, I'm assuming if there's a sacred site nearby,

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Speaker 1: they have to then go through a process of trying

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Speaker 1: to avoid that area I'm assuming or.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it depends on whether it's you know, on

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Speaker 2: the site or adjacent to So I understand they put

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Speaker 2: in the application and UPPER then you don't run their

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Speaker 2: process and then they're provided with that application. I think

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Speaker 2: one of the concerns for our counsels is the time

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Speaker 2: that that takes. There are examples of where it's taken

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Speaker 2: four months to get that application processed. So we absolutely

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Speaker 2: understand and respect the intent of the legislation and the

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Speaker 2: need to protect sacred sites. Yep, you know, absolutely, but

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Speaker 2: I think we've just got potentially, like any business, we'd

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Speaker 2: like to see some certainty around those costs and timeframes.

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Speaker 1: Well, it makes it really difficult to do business if

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Speaker 1: you don't have that certainty around costs and timeframes. So

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Speaker 1: depending on the project, or depending on where it might

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Speaker 1: be or the level of involvement that I'm assuming, is

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Speaker 1: it the traditional like the elders or the traditional owners,

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Speaker 1: or is it Upper depending on the level of involvement

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Speaker 1: that they need as to how that fee changes.

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Speaker 2: I think there's two processes help upper and none of

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Speaker 2: our members have issues again with that process or with

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Speaker 2: the traditional owners or with the protection the sacred sites.

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Speaker 2: I think it's that second process where excuse me, potentially

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Speaker 2: the traditional owners need to be on site to watch

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Speaker 2: over that. That is at the moment a little bit

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Speaker 2: of concern in regards to the fees and schedules around that.

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Speaker 1: So what I mean, So, do you think it does

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Speaker 1: seem as though there needs to be some changes to

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Speaker 1: the act to provide that certainty.

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Speaker 2: Definitely, Yeah. I think in other jurisdictions they do have

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Speaker 2: a schedule of fees for that type of for that

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Speaker 2: part of the process, which we would like to like

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Speaker 2: to see considered here in the territory, together with some

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Speaker 2: potential best practice time frames around that to provide that certainty.

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Speaker 1: And so has there been a discussion at this point

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Speaker 1: in time with the Minister or with the Department about

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Speaker 1: this and obviously thinking that there needs to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, we have a meeting with our PA scheduled

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Speaker 2: for early next month.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what needs to happen from Legant's perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: in terms of those next steps.

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Speaker 2: Like any advocacy project, it's you know, starting those negotiations

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Speaker 2: or those conversations. The Act the amendments as it stands

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Speaker 2: don't go into these parts. You know that we have

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Speaker 2: concerns right there are around other elements of the Act.

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Speaker 1: So maybe it does need by the sounds of it,

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Speaker 1: it potentially needs to be extended to include you know,

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Speaker 1: the concerns that you've just raised this morning. I mean

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Speaker 1: with maybe if it's something that's happening in other locations,

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Speaker 1: and if there is a schedule of fees that people

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Speaker 1: know that they're going to all councils and and I'm

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Speaker 1: assuming even you know private operators or you know, different

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Speaker 1: different people depending on where they're looking to do a project.

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Speaker 1: If there is a schedule of fees, it would give

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Speaker 1: people some certainty.

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Speaker 2: Right absolutely, And you know, just to be clear, I

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Speaker 2: suppose there is the schedule of fees already around the

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Speaker 2: certificate and the applying of the certificate, right, so that exists,

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Speaker 2: it's that extra bit around the traditional owners coming onto

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Speaker 2: site and those fees for that part of the process.

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Speaker 1: And it does sound as though that can be quite

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Speaker 1: a costly process then.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm not across those costs. If it is,

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Speaker 2: if it's a large scale project and those traditional owners

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Speaker 2: are on site for the length of that project, it

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Speaker 2: could potentially be a significant cost.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right, all right, Well, it does sound as

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Speaker 1: though there needs to be some further discussions here, and

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Speaker 1: from the sounds of it, you guys are due to

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Speaker 1: meet with ARPA, so that's a good thing hopefully even

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Speaker 1: with the minister, you know, he's aware of then some

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Speaker 1: of these worries because I think if we're going to

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Speaker 1: sort of move forward in the Northern Territory, we've all

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Speaker 1: got to work out how we can work sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, cooperatively, comprehensively with each other for the best

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Speaker 1: interests of everybody, but in a way that gives people

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Speaker 1: that certainty.

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Speaker 2: Right, agreed, Yeah, agreed. I think we are really really

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Speaker 2: keen to work with the government. We are, you know,

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Speaker 2: the third sphere of government and we really want to

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Speaker 2: see the territory grow, particularly in our lifestyle and the economy,

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Speaker 2: so we want to be partners.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, Mary Watson, CEO of the Local Government Association

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Speaker 1: of the Northern Territory. Great to speak with you this morning,

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Speaker 1: no doubt we'll talk to you again soon.

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Speaker 2: Great, thanks, thank you,