WEBVTT - Asking Questions of an Inquiry 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:08.120 This is Curtain, a podcast where we expose the disappearances 0:00:08.160 --> 0:00:11.680 of Aboriginal people across this country. Shining a light on 0:00:11.720 --> 0:00:14.960 the darkest parts of our justice system. We ask who 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:18.840 are the victims? I'm Ama Macquire and I'm. 0:00:18.720 --> 0:00:22.880 Martin Hodgson, Senior Advocate at the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.560 And a warning, this series contains the names of deceased 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:31.120 people and includes distressing content that may upset some listeners. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:39.000 Welcome to Season two, Episode five of Curtain the Podcast. 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:43.080 This week, we're going to continue our discussion about the 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:47.560 Senate Inquiry into Missing and Murdered First Nations Women and Children. 0:00:47.760 --> 0:00:53.000 The inquiry began and was launched in November twenty twenty one, 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:57.320 and was supposed to report back to the Parliament by 0:00:57.400 --> 0:01:01.240 the thirtieth of June twenty twenty two, but it's since 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:05.319 been extended to that same date thirtieth of June twenty 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:08.920 twenty four. As regular listeners will know, we've had a 0:01:08.959 --> 0:01:12.520 lot of criticisms about this inquiry, both in the way 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:16.360 it's structured and the way it's been carried out. There's 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:21.240 been very little information given or been heard from families 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:25.360 of those whose loved ones are either missing, or murdered. 0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:29.759 There's also been a strange reaction from the inquiry as 0:01:29.800 --> 0:01:33.040 to any negative commentary, some of which has come from us, 0:01:33.160 --> 0:01:37.720 and also negative commentary that came in the form of 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:41.680 the submissions to the inquiry themselves that a lot of 0:01:41.720 --> 0:01:46.000 the key issues were being completely ignored. The inquiry also 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:54.400 heard initially largely from police, some academics researchers, but there's 0:01:54.440 --> 0:01:58.600 been almost nothing from those on the ground this week. 0:01:58.640 --> 0:02:01.880 On Tuesday, the twentieth of February twenty twenty four, there 0:02:01.920 --> 0:02:04.240 was another public hearing and it was held at the 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:09.440 High Regency in Brisbane. Those heard were Karen Isles, the 0:02:09.520 --> 0:02:13.639 Queensland Police Service, the Office of the Director of Public Prosecution, 0:02:14.600 --> 0:02:18.880 and then a panel discussion with family violence experts. So 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:21.840 we're going to break down a lot of what was 0:02:21.880 --> 0:02:26.240 said this week and analyze how the Queensland Police in 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:32.239 particular came to the inquiry. Our discussion around their involvement 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:35.880 in this issue is critical because, as we've discussed in 0:02:35.919 --> 0:02:41.359 this podcast, Queensland is sadly a hotspot for forcibly disappeared 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:45.720 and murdered Aboriginal women and children, and the Queensland response 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:49.720 in every case we've looked at has been terrible. Amy 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.200 was in the building on the day and the first 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.320 witness was Karen Isles. Amy, can you tell me a 0:02:56.360 --> 0:02:59.120 little bit about what she said to the inquiry. Yeah. 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:02.160 It should be known as well that the inquiry has 0:03:02.440 --> 0:03:07.520 public hearings so anyone can listen, including online, but then 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:11.160 it has also in camera hearings which I assume with 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:14.320 potentially members of families who have lost their loved ones 0:03:14.800 --> 0:03:17.360 to violence. So I was only able to attend the 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:20.280 public hearing, but it was in the High Regency in 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:24.160 Queen Street Mall in the heart of Brisbane, and the 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:28.080 first witness was an Aboriginal woman named Karen Isles, who 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.840 has been a really strong advocate for Aboriginal women who 0:03:31.840 --> 0:03:34.720 are victims of sexual violence because she is a victim 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:38.440 survivor herself. And a few years ago now her story 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:42.280 was actually reported on in The Guardian and it revealed 0:03:42.360 --> 0:03:46.560 a really shocking case of abject failure by both the 0:03:46.640 --> 0:03:49.640 Queensland and your South Wales Police who had failed for 0:03:49.760 --> 0:03:53.840 over a decade to investigate her case of sexual assault. 0:03:54.320 --> 0:03:57.040 She has been very vocal about and a trigger warning 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.280 to our listeners. It was a gang rape when she 0:03:59.320 --> 0:04:02.000 was only a teen in nine ninety three, and she 0:04:02.040 --> 0:04:04.560 actually came forward in two thousand and four and reported 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:08.960 it to meself. Wealth Police gave names photographs of her 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:12.760 alleged attackers. Was quite detailed in what she was saying. 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.440 Her statement was then forwarded to the Queensland Police and 0:04:17.480 --> 0:04:21.880 it literally was not followed through for over a decade 0:04:21.960 --> 0:04:25.520 until Karen went to the media. And so Karen has 0:04:25.560 --> 0:04:28.400 been a really really strong advocate for Aboriginal women who 0:04:28.400 --> 0:04:31.440 are victim survivors of family violence. So I was able 0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.080 to sit in a little on her testimony to the inquiry, 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.240 which was incredibly strong, and so she was talking about 0:04:38.240 --> 0:04:43.880 the need for statutory minimum legislative standards across the country 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:47.719 and her key pieces of testimony was about holding police 0:04:47.720 --> 0:04:51.400 account for breaches of their own standards, so that includes 0:04:51.440 --> 0:04:55.000 for their failure to interview victims when they destroy statements, 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.200 which is something that happened in her own case. It 0:04:57.240 --> 0:05:00.479 came out that a statement had been destroyed. And she 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:05.480 was talking about the need for independent investigators to investigate 0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:08.719 these really horrific cases, and she used specifically the language 0:05:08.720 --> 0:05:12.880 of abductions and sexual violence, and she was very clear 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:18.080 in separating those form of violence from family violence, which 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:21.680 I think is something really important. So she was specifically 0:05:21.720 --> 0:05:24.960 using the language of abduction, sexual assault, and murder of 0:05:25.040 --> 0:05:29.040 First Nations people. She really called on the inquiry and 0:05:29.080 --> 0:05:33.760 particularly the politicians to actually stand up against police unions 0:05:33.960 --> 0:05:37.120 and the police and come out in making changes that 0:05:37.120 --> 0:05:41.840 would support Aboriginal victims of murder and sexual assault and abduction. 0:05:42.279 --> 0:05:45.640 Basically her testimony, she was saying that she had been 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:49.480 shut up and so she was fighting to really ensure 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:53.120 that Aboriginal women's voices are brought out of those silences. 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:55.360 And she spoke also of the need for a truth 0:05:55.400 --> 0:05:58.800 and Justice commission which would not be held by the police, 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:03.120 but would actually be run by Aboriginal people, and it 0:06:03.160 --> 0:06:06.280 would be about Aboriginal women being able to give testimony. 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:08.440 And I think one of the things that stood out 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:11.560 to me was the fact she wanted to really focus 0:06:11.720 --> 0:06:14.520 on the police all across the country, but there was 0:06:14.560 --> 0:06:17.760 a lack, a clear lack of political will, not just 0:06:17.839 --> 0:06:20.120 in her cases, but a lot of the other cases 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.560 of Aboriginal women who are victim survivors who she was 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:27.440 advocating for. And just before she left, she actually appealed 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:31.719 to the committee to actually hold the police to account. 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.479 And that really stood out to me because when I 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:39.600 went to the inquiry and I entered the hotel, I 0:06:39.680 --> 0:06:42.479 was really amazed to see that there was a really 0:06:42.800 --> 0:06:45.839 big police presence, so a really big presence from the 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:50.720 QPS there that day, and it was contrasted with the 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:54.640 WA Police. So when the inquiry went to Western Australia, 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:57.280 the WA Police just didn't show up to the inquiry 0:06:57.920 --> 0:07:00.600 and it made the media. So the QPA, we're using 0:07:00.640 --> 0:07:03.320 a different strategy and they were putting on a show 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:06.080 really and they had their lawyers there. There was all up. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:09.160 The delegation from the QPS was at least fifteen people 0:07:09.640 --> 0:07:13.840 and they really filled that room. And then afterwards they 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:20.800 gave their testimony, which was vastly different obviously from Kareniles. Martin, 0:07:20.960 --> 0:07:24.440 you were listening as well from your own hometown self. 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.560 What did you pick up firstly when you were listening 0:07:27.560 --> 0:07:28.840 to the QPS testimony. 0:07:28.920 --> 0:07:31.000 Yeah, I think one thing to point out is that 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:36.800 Kareniles gave her evidence at nine am and that large 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.400 delegation from QPS began at nine point thirty, So I 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:44.080 just want to acknowledge her bravery as well in giving 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:47.920 such powerful testimony with the police right there as she 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:51.560 was making very sound criticism of them. It's not an 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:55.559 easy thing to do. The QPS delegation, as Amy said, 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:59.600 was quite large and among them was Assistant Commissioner Mark Kelly. 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:04.680 So Detective Inspector Damien Hansen from the Homicide Group and 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:08.000 the Crime Intelligence Command, and he's one of the most 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:13.120 high profile detectives in all of Queensland. But a few 0:08:13.200 --> 0:08:15.560 years ago and I just want to give this his background, 0:08:16.280 --> 0:08:20.600 there was another inquiry looking back at the famous whiskeyer 0:08:20.720 --> 0:08:23.960 Go Go attack when fire bombing, when it was burnt 0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:27.320 down and many people were killed, and there was a 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:31.800 new inquiry looking at where others involved and how the 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:38.120 police handled that investigation. And even though it was decades old, 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:44.080 the Inspector Damien Hanson, who was here on this day 0:08:44.200 --> 0:08:48.160 for this inquiry, made sure that one of his more 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:52.200 junior officers didn't include in their submission to that inquiry 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.360 any criticism of the police and instructed that they remove 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:01.720 those criticisms from their report. And it was Sergeant Gray 0:09:01.920 --> 0:09:05.280 was his junior and this is what was reported then. 0:09:05.480 --> 0:09:09.480 Sergeant Gray said, Inspector Hanson told her and I quote 0:09:09.800 --> 0:09:12.760 that sort of material should not be included in a 0:09:12.840 --> 0:09:15.679 report from the police and that we would leave that 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:20.920 to the journalists and police haters end quote. So that's 0:09:20.960 --> 0:09:24.480 the context of how he has come to address inquiries 0:09:24.520 --> 0:09:27.199 in the past and his sort of attitude. You can 0:09:27.240 --> 0:09:32.400 imagine the police didn't really address any of the criticisms 0:09:32.440 --> 0:09:35.640 that have been made in all of the submissions against them, 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:39.520 both written and verbal. And I think more worrying to 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.400 me than the fact that this is someone who has 0:09:42.440 --> 0:09:46.520 attempted to cover things up in a past inquiry and 0:09:46.559 --> 0:09:51.640 that only came to lie because media organizations fought for 0:09:51.720 --> 0:09:56.319 the opportunity to publish what he'd had redacted, and it 0:09:56.400 --> 0:09:59.480 took two years for that to happen. So immediately we 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.480 have to ask what does he know? What is in 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:07.680 the police files, the police recommendations internally that he has 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.640 ensured didn't see the light of day at this inquiry. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:16.600 But something really stood out to me, and it sounds simple, 0:10:17.200 --> 0:10:19.840 but this was an answer he gave when he was 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:23.480 asked about what happens when an Aboriginal woman or child 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:27.280 is murdered. In particular, we're talking about homicide here, and 0:10:27.320 --> 0:10:31.880 what assistance is provided to the families. And this was 0:10:31.960 --> 0:10:37.439 his answer. Remember, he is a detective inspector providing transport 0:10:37.679 --> 0:10:41.520 and that what is that as an answer, and that 0:10:42.320 --> 0:10:46.640 providing transport and that he sounded like a complete moron. 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:50.680 And this is not being critical for critical sake. We're 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.320 talking about a detective inspector whose sole job is to 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:58.480 solve homicides and when it comes to what assistance his 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:03.280 organization can prove vied to the families and loved ones 0:11:03.360 --> 0:11:07.200 of those people, all they can say is transport and 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.080 that that's an answer a six year old could give. 0:11:10.880 --> 0:11:15.360 And to me, that was what riddled the police submission 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.360 to the inquiry, which was verbal, given that they hadn't 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.040 provided a proper written submission. The other thing that really 0:11:22.040 --> 0:11:26.400 stood out to me, and having watched endless inquiries over 0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:29.520 the years into all sorts of issues, whether they be 0:11:29.679 --> 0:11:34.560 on domestic violence, the way that the AFP handles the 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.560 arrests of Australians overseas, but also just on personal issues. 0:11:38.600 --> 0:11:41.880 I'm interested in climate change and other health issues for 0:11:41.960 --> 0:11:46.320 Aboriginal communities. I've never seen so many questions taken on 0:11:46.480 --> 0:11:51.080 notice as the QPS took unnotice because they simply couldn't 0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:54.480 provide the answers there, and then again that just shows 0:11:54.520 --> 0:11:58.640 how unprepared they are and just how lacking their knowledge 0:11:58.720 --> 0:12:03.600 is on this issue. And we're expecting that this organization 0:12:03.800 --> 0:12:08.600 that we know from recent internal reports and investigative journalism 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:12.920 over the last few years alone, is riddled with misogyny, 0:12:13.280 --> 0:12:17.000 is riddled with homophobia, and is riddled with racism, and 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:21.040 yet we're expecting them to care and solve the cases 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:23.920 of missing and murdered First Nations women and children. And 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.520 the fact that they had to take so many questions 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:31.080 on notice because they didn't know the answers should shock people. 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:35.520 They're supposed to be experts in solving these crimes. These 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.720 are the people we pay millions and millions of dollars 0:12:38.800 --> 0:12:42.760 to and they couldn't answer anything. And when they did 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:48.040 provide answers, largely it went to their own failings. But 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.679 the way they combat that was to say they are 0:12:50.760 --> 0:12:55.199 implementing and I quote holistic training, And it was clear 0:12:55.240 --> 0:12:59.400 that they'd been worded up about all the latest buzzwords. 0:13:00.240 --> 0:13:04.040 They used the word holistic training over and over again. 0:13:04.440 --> 0:13:08.920 They used the term victim centric and coercive control over 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:12.839 and over again, because they had nothing of substance to say. 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:17.439 It's clear that anytime they were challenged about their failings, 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:21.160 they simply discussed training that will take place in the 0:13:21.240 --> 0:13:24.840 future or the very limited one two day training that 0:13:25.000 --> 0:13:28.560 is currently given to their officers at the moment, and 0:13:28.600 --> 0:13:33.000 they couldn't really answer many questions about that training other 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.160 than going back to saying it's holistic, it's victim centered, 0:13:38.160 --> 0:13:42.200 there was no substance. So for all the other things 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:46.240 we've criticized Queensland Police about in terms of their racism, 0:13:46.360 --> 0:13:50.160 their negligence, their failure to even search for missing and 0:13:50.240 --> 0:13:53.559 murdered women and children, the way they treat the families, 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:57.880 the institutionalized racism in this organization, the other thing that 0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:02.120 we can really take away this public hearing was just 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.920 how little they know and how poorly they were prepared 0:14:06.440 --> 0:14:10.480 to answer questions. They've had, as we said, since November 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.520 twenty twenty one to get ready for and they couldn't 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:36.040 answer anything. Amy. What did you take away from their evidence. 0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:38.400 Yeah, just a few things coming off that I would 0:14:38.440 --> 0:14:41.720 say they were poorly prepared, but also they were very 0:14:42.000 --> 0:14:45.840 well prepared, but obviously not to answer the questions that 0:14:45.920 --> 0:14:49.040 the inquiry posed to them. And one of the reasons 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.400 I say that is because of the fact that the 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:53.880 person who gave the opening statement and in fact the 0:14:53.920 --> 0:14:56.840 majority of the panel. So there was five QPS police 0:14:56.880 --> 0:14:59.960 officers on the panel, but then there was QPAS offices 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:01.760 in the audience who are ready to stand up and 0:15:01.800 --> 0:15:05.120 give evidence if needed, but the majority of them were 0:15:05.160 --> 0:15:09.120 Aboriginal police officers, and there were Aboriginal police officers from 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.360 the First Nation's Unit, which was a unit only set 0:15:12.440 --> 0:15:15.280 up in December twenty twenty three as a response to 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:19.360 a task force, and so it is relatively new. And 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:24.760 when the Aboriginal police officer who gave the opening statement spoke, 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.360 he did not mention once really the cases of missing 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.040 and murdered Indigenous women, which is the reason for the inquiry. 0:15:33.280 --> 0:15:36.120 And so the inquiry and the senators on the inquiry 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:38.760 mentioned a couple of times, Oh, we want to extend 0:15:38.760 --> 0:15:41.920 our gratitude to the QPS for showing up, because their 0:15:41.960 --> 0:15:45.520 counterparts in WA didn't bother to show up, but they 0:15:45.520 --> 0:15:49.040 had actually shown up in order to deflect from their 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.960 own failings and the fact that they're not willing to 0:15:52.280 --> 0:15:55.520 own up to what was happening and so I feel 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:58.360 like the people on the panel there were the ones 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.920 who were so ill equipped to actually give answers about 0:16:02.960 --> 0:16:06.560 why there is a crisis of missing or what we 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:10.320 call disappeared Aboriginal women, and that was a clear tactic 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.680 from the QPS. But I also want to say is 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:16.600 that they didn't really even need to be prepared because 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.360 one of the things that I was most shocked at 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.240 was the questions coming from the inquiry, and I was 0:16:21.280 --> 0:16:24.400 reflecting on it afterwards. I was thinking, if you had 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.040 a parliamentary inquiry into black deaths in custody, for example, 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.280 you may have a lot of stupid questions maybe around 0:16:31.720 --> 0:16:35.520 like deflecting questions around incarceration, rather than looking at the 0:16:35.680 --> 0:16:39.280 actual issue of violence against Black men, women and children 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:43.200 in custody. But I feel that the inquiry would still 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:45.480 be focused on the issue of black deaths in custody, 0:16:45.840 --> 0:16:48.400 you know what I mean. But in this inquiry, what 0:16:48.520 --> 0:16:51.720 I found most horrific is that there was no focus 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:56.920 on the actual fact of disappeared Aboriginal women in Queensland. 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.280 And as I'm sitting there, you know, knowing that this 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:04.480 is a real crisis, it was almost like I was 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:07.960 sitting in just some random inquiry, you know, and the 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:11.080 majority of people there are white people, and there's just 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.719 that feeling of they have no understanding that this is 0:17:15.040 --> 0:17:17.320 an issue, you know, and you mentioned before at the 0:17:17.320 --> 0:17:19.800 start might and that you know, this inquiry has been 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:22.600 going for two or three years. There were no questions 0:17:22.640 --> 0:17:26.719 about how many numbers of Aboriginal women have been disappeared, 0:17:27.200 --> 0:17:31.560 how many numbers of Aboriginal women have been murdered, how 0:17:31.600 --> 0:17:35.160 many cases have been solved. Last week we talked about 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:38.800 response times, police response times. What was your response time to, 0:17:39.560 --> 0:17:42.800 for example, Constance May, what you watch you compared to 0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:46.480 Allison biden Clay, who is a really high profile case 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.040 in Brisbane. What was your response to testing the forensics 0:17:50.080 --> 0:17:53.080 of other cases compared to cases of non white victims. 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:55.400 There was just none of that, And I feel one 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:58.359 of the reasons is because there is an inability or 0:17:58.320 --> 0:18:03.200 a refusal to acknowledge the racial engendered nature of policing, 0:18:03.440 --> 0:18:06.640 which is honestly outrageous because we have literally just had 0:18:06.680 --> 0:18:11.119 an inquiry into the racism and misogyny ingrained in the 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:14.960 QPS only just recently, which on that very same day 0:18:15.000 --> 0:18:17.960 the inquiry was sitting in Brisbane. We saw the Queensland 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:22.000 Police Commissioner announce her resignation, Katriana Carrol, and that is 0:18:22.040 --> 0:18:26.280 directly tied to that inquiry and her being pushed out 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.200 of the QPS as that figurehead role. And so I'm 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:34.960 really just like sitting going through my notes reflecting on 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:37.680 what I heard. I feel like I didn't hear anything 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:40.720 because they didn't say anything, you know what I mean, Martin, 0:18:41.400 --> 0:18:43.000 Did you want to pick up anything from that? 0:18:43.400 --> 0:18:46.320 Yeah, I mean I think And I may just raised 0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:49.399 something that I really should have pointed out, which was 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.239 you could have sat in that entire inquiry on that 0:18:54.359 --> 0:18:58.199 day in the High Regency and not realized that this 0:18:58.359 --> 0:19:01.560 was an inquiry into missing and Aboriginal women and children. 0:19:01.680 --> 0:19:06.960 The issue was barely addressed, that the terms of the 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:12.160 inquiry were barely addressed. There was no I think there 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:16.960 was one or two names raised by the senators asking 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.720 the questions of missing and murdered Aboriginal women and children. 0:19:22.400 --> 0:19:24.840 One thing that appalled me. I won't name the person 0:19:24.880 --> 0:19:29.440 who got it wrong, but when discussing miss you completely 0:19:29.480 --> 0:19:35.280 got who people will know died in police custody. They 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.560 got the circumstances and even the state where it happened. 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:44.520 Completely wrong. But as Amy said, really appropriately, you wouldn't 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:46.920 have known that this is what it was about. If 0:19:46.920 --> 0:19:49.359 it was about death in custody, you would have had 0:19:49.400 --> 0:19:53.600 that term over and over again. If this was an 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:58.920 inquiry into climate change, for example, you would have heard 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:03.800 from you would leading scientists in the area and real 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:07.639 discussion about that topic. As Amy said too. You know 0:20:07.800 --> 0:20:11.199 last week we talked about response times, but not a 0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:16.480 single senator asked any of the questions about Constance wat 0:20:16.560 --> 0:20:21.280 Show or Monique Club's disappearance and murder. In the case 0:20:21.320 --> 0:20:25.479 of Constance wat Show that has not been solved. Monique 0:20:25.520 --> 0:20:28.600 Club has never been found. This is the exact issue 0:20:28.640 --> 0:20:32.159 we're talking about. It happened in Brisbane. They were in 0:20:32.200 --> 0:20:35.520 Brisbane and they didn't ask about it. They didn't ask 0:20:36.160 --> 0:20:41.320 why when Monique was reported missing in Brisbane, her mother 0:20:41.400 --> 0:20:44.760 reported in Harvey Bay because that's where she lives. Was 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.080 it handled by the Harvey Bay police they're not in Brisbane. 0:20:48.440 --> 0:20:51.040 That could have been a simple question that goes to 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:54.760 how the police tackle this issue, But not a single 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:58.040 one of the senators were prepared. And you know, I 0:20:58.080 --> 0:21:01.000 think this is something that some people on the Left 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:03.000 are going to have to come to grips with, which 0:21:03.040 --> 0:21:05.840 is the fact that there was three Green senators that 0:21:05.920 --> 0:21:08.320 I'm aware of, that were taking part, and not one 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:11.239 of them asked a single decent question, and one of 0:21:11.280 --> 0:21:16.680 them thanked very enthusiastically the DPP for showing up and 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.200 what a great team they had. These are the people 0:21:19.240 --> 0:21:25.919 who overcharge Aboriginal Terrostrait Islander people every single day, and 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:29.600 who had done that to Miss Bernard, to Constance Watcho, 0:21:29.960 --> 0:21:33.640 to Manique Club, all of whom died soon after being 0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:38.439 released from custody. So the victims of this epidemic of 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:45.560 misogynistic and racist violence are simply forget victim centric as 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:49.720 the cops claim, they're not present at all, and Amy's 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:53.399 work centers on presencing the victims and their families, and 0:21:53.440 --> 0:21:57.280 that simply didn't happen. And the other key part, as 0:21:57.320 --> 0:22:00.400 Amy said too, is there was a number of First 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.679 Nations officers brought onto the panel who clearly, through no 0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:07.600 fauld of their own, have never worked in this area 0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.880 and said as much themselves, So why were they there 0:22:11.480 --> 0:22:14.399 other than to be frank, to be window dressing. And 0:22:14.440 --> 0:22:18.160 then one of the worst aspects the Assistant Commissioner talked 0:22:18.160 --> 0:22:21.840 about One of the worst aspects of his testimony was 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:27.720 his discussion of indigenously Hazon officers who work with the QPS, 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:33.080 and basically when it came to any discussions of difficulties 0:22:33.119 --> 0:22:37.679 communicating with families, he threw the ILOs under the bus 0:22:38.200 --> 0:22:41.680 and said they're often not involved because of conflicts of interest, 0:22:42.400 --> 0:22:48.679 family fighting inside Aboriginal communities, disagreements between families. It was 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:53.520 all crap, But rather than take any responsibility, he took 0:22:53.560 --> 0:22:57.880 the lowest level people in the entire organization who are 0:22:57.920 --> 0:23:00.800 black and threw them under the bus and then brought 0:23:00.880 --> 0:23:05.119 black faces in to wash over the fact that his 0:23:05.280 --> 0:23:10.560 organization never solves these cases and is largely responsible for 0:23:10.640 --> 0:23:13.080 the fact that a they occur in the first place, 0:23:13.480 --> 0:23:17.920 the over policing and overcharging of Aboriginal women and children 0:23:17.920 --> 0:23:20.800 and making them so vulnerable in the first place, and 0:23:20.840 --> 0:23:23.879 then do nothing to find them when they go missing, 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:28.000 let alone when they're murdered. So I just think the 0:23:28.080 --> 0:23:31.600 fact that the senators were not able to not only 0:23:31.720 --> 0:23:35.760 not lay a glove on these police, but were practically 0:23:35.800 --> 0:23:38.679 clapping them along or too unprepared to ask them a 0:23:38.760 --> 0:23:44.719 single appropriate question really raises questions about how useful this 0:23:44.800 --> 0:23:48.679 inquiry is to begin with, and whether it is worth 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:51.960 the trauma of the families who do give evidence, And 0:23:52.119 --> 0:23:55.600 obviously we know of families who have decided not to 0:23:56.080 --> 0:23:59.000 because it is too traumatic for their men. Quite frankly, 0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:00.719 I don't think it's worthwhile. 0:24:00.920 --> 0:24:03.399 Oh, I would definitely agree with Mardin and all of 0:24:03.440 --> 0:24:05.959 your points. I think the other thing to mention as 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:08.719 well is that it's not that they haven't had people 0:24:09.119 --> 0:24:14.359 approaching the inquiry to explain the connections, for example, between 0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:19.840 police over surveillance and over criminalization and the violence inflicted 0:24:19.920 --> 0:24:23.880 upon Aboriginal women and then the targeting, the direct targeting 0:24:23.880 --> 0:24:26.800 of Aboriginal women, which is what we have seen particularly 0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.560 in Queensland. And I would just say that just to 0:24:29.560 --> 0:24:31.760 make it clearer to our listeners, that Martin and I 0:24:31.880 --> 0:24:36.520 both submitted separate submissions to the Inquiry into Missing Medeness 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.359 Women and Girls. Mine was with Sisters Inside and ICRR, 0:24:40.560 --> 0:24:44.119 which is an organization looking at issues of race up 0:24:44.160 --> 0:24:47.720 here in Brisbane. Martin did his submission based on his 0:24:47.800 --> 0:24:52.159 extensive experience working in cases like this, and none of 0:24:52.200 --> 0:24:55.240 us were approached to give evidence based on that submission. 0:24:55.280 --> 0:24:58.760 I'd previously given evidence around the bearable case that that 0:24:58.880 --> 0:25:00.879 was really just I was given and hours noticed that 0:25:01.000 --> 0:25:04.080 was an in relation to the submission I had joint orfored. 0:25:04.480 --> 0:25:07.480 And at no point in time has Mardin been approached 0:25:07.480 --> 0:25:11.400 by the inquiry to talk about these really interconnected issues 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:14.679 and how the police is contributing to the crisis of 0:25:14.880 --> 0:25:17.919 disappeared Aboriginal women. And that's the other thing that I 0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:20.280 was thinking as I sat there, is that they're not 0:25:20.359 --> 0:25:24.679 looking at the police as complicit and allowing the conditions 0:25:24.680 --> 0:25:28.560 in which Aboriginal women are continually disappeared to continue. There's 0:25:28.600 --> 0:25:32.120 no connection between that, even as the QPS has been 0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:36.040 under fired by two separate inquiries as to their handlings 0:25:36.080 --> 0:25:40.439 of domestic violence cases and around racism and misogyny in 0:25:40.480 --> 0:25:43.119 their own force. So this is something that the QPS 0:25:43.119 --> 0:25:46.639 have continually been under investigation for and yet there was 0:25:46.720 --> 0:25:49.760 no mention of that really in the inquiry. And the 0:25:49.760 --> 0:25:52.840 most heated part of it with the QPS was when 0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:57.360 Green Senator David Chubridge started questioning the QPS about their 0:25:57.440 --> 0:26:01.040