1 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:08,280 Speaker 1: The Tillies are the Australian football team taking the country 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: and the world by storm. But behind every great football team, 3 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: there's an amazing team of experts working behind the scenes, 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: incredible women who helped to manage the Matildas. On today's episode, 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: we meet Georgia Brown. She's the assistant sports scientist at 6 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: the Tillies who's changing the game when it comes to 7 00:00:28,480 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: research around female footballers in Australia. She's currently completing her 8 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 1: PhD on the effects of the menstrual cycle on football 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: performance and recovery, and we couldn't think of a better 10 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:43,040 Speaker 1: place for her to do that research than with the Tillies. 11 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: My name is Sophie and I'm the producer here at 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 1: the Female Athlete Project. This episode proves that there are 13 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: so many roles and opportunities for passionate sportswomen both on 14 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: and off the field. We hope you enjoy this mini 15 00:00:57,320 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: series Managing the Matildas. 16 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,200 Speaker 2: Georgia, Welcome to The Female Athlete Project. 17 00:01:02,240 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 18 00:01:03,280 --> 00:01:06,080 Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to having a chat about your 19 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: experience and the work that you do with football Australia 20 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 2: and also some of the incredible research you're doing in 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:13,680 Speaker 2: that space. But can you take us back and tell 22 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: us when you first found a love for sport and 23 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 2: for football. 24 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,080 Speaker 4: Yep. I grew up in a family which was pretty 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 4: football obsessed, particularly my dad. He grew up playing his 26 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,480 Speaker 4: whole life, and so my sisters and I naturally played 27 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 4: football from a young age, and I fell in love 28 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:30,559 Speaker 4: with it pretty young. 29 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:33,119 Speaker 3: I played my whole life. I coached my. 30 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,559 Speaker 4: Teams in high school and after high school, I refereed 31 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 4: growing up, and then I've ended up working in football now, 32 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 4: which is pretty exciting. 33 00:01:41,319 --> 00:01:44,000 Speaker 2: How did you come to the decision to do a 34 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:45,440 Speaker 2: sports science degree? 35 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 4: Yep, so I love football, love sport, and then I 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 4: really enjoyed science in high school as well. I love 37 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 4: biology and I love chemistry, so naturally for me, I thought, 38 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 4: why not do a sport science degree. 39 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 3: So ended up doing a. 40 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 4: Bachelor of Applied Science at the University of Sydney, and 41 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:05,560 Speaker 4: then got my bachelor's degree before moving over to UTS 42 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 4: to do and on its degree. 43 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 2: Were you at Cumberland Campus? 44 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:08,840 Speaker 3: I was. 45 00:02:09,320 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 2: I was at Cumbo too. At Cumbo now it's no 46 00:02:13,200 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 2: longer is it. 47 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, they're at main campus now, I think, which is 48 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: so different to what Cumberland campus. 49 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 2: Was they don't get the same experience. 50 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 4: No, No, I mean I love that you could just 51 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 4: drive there, yes, and park and it was easy. Yes, 52 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,240 Speaker 4: but there wasn't quite the university lifestyle that all my 53 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 4: other friends got at other universities. 54 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's probably a good decision to move to the 55 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:34,079 Speaker 2: main campus. 56 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 4: I have some friends from university still that I'm very 57 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:38,920 Speaker 4: close with, so that's awesome. I think you kind of 58 00:02:38,919 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 4: had all the same people in all your classes, which 59 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 4: was really nice. 60 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 2: And for someone who might be looking at a sports 61 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 2: science degree, it is quite heavily science would that makes your's. 62 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:51,519 Speaker 4: I teach a university now as well, and I think 63 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,840 Speaker 4: some students come in and don't realize how heavily science 64 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 4: based it is. So At Sydney University, at least when 65 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 4: I did it, it was a Bachelor of Applied Science 66 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 4: and then in brackets was Exercise and Sports Science. I'm 67 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 4: now at University of Technology, Sydney and it's more practical focused, 68 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 4: and there it is a Bachelor of Sport and Exercise Science, 69 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 4: so slightly different. 70 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 3: But my undergrad was very heavily science based. 71 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:18,080 Speaker 2: So once you finished up at university, what did your 72 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 2: entry into the professional world look like from there. 73 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 3: Yep. 74 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,239 Speaker 4: So when I finished my degree, it was quite tricky 75 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,120 Speaker 4: to get into working in sport. I didn't really have 76 00:03:27,200 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 4: any connections. So I actually took a three month break 77 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 4: and went over to Europe. 78 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 3: And had a holiday. 79 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 2: That's the way to do it. 80 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 3: I thought, I just needed a break. I was a 81 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 3: bit burnt out. 82 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,520 Speaker 4: And then after that the following year I went to 83 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,880 Speaker 4: the University of Technology, Sydney and I did an internship 84 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 4: with Sydney of City Youth Academy whilst doing my honors 85 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 4: project with them as well. So that was, I guess 86 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 4: my first introduction to working with a sports team. UTS 87 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 4: just had a lot of really great connections with sports teams. 88 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 4: After that, I then did an internship at the New 89 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 4: South Wales Institute of Sport with their swim team and 90 00:03:58,000 --> 00:03:59,680 Speaker 4: their exercise physiology department. 91 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:01,000 Speaker 3: I got to work with them. 92 00:04:01,160 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 4: Was like BRUNTI and Kate Campbell and I remember just 93 00:04:03,640 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 4: watching them swim and they looked like dolphins. They just 94 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:10,119 Speaker 4: line through the water. They were absolutely phenomenal. I think 95 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 4: Meg Harris, who's in the Olympics this time as well, 96 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:14,760 Speaker 4: and a few other athletes. 97 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 3: Unfortunately, that was a COVID year, so. 98 00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 4: Right didn't get to do as much as I would 99 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 4: have liked, but my supervisor there offered me a PhD 100 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,400 Speaker 4: at the end of it, and then my honest supervisor 101 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 4: heard about that and said they also have a PhD 102 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 4: with All Australia. So I had to make the tough 103 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:37,240 Speaker 4: decision which my parents were straight away brooting for Football 104 00:04:37,240 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 4: Australia and the one that I chose in the end 105 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 4: because it came with a role with the under seventeens 106 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,599 Speaker 4: women's national team is their sports scientists. So from there 107 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:49,920 Speaker 4: I've then moved up to the under twenties women's national 108 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 4: team after a year we got to go to the 109 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 4: Under twenties World Cup in Costa Rica twenty twenty two, 110 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,720 Speaker 4: and then last year was asked to join the Matilda's 111 00:04:58,720 --> 00:05:00,880 Speaker 4: from the World Cup as one of their assistant sports 112 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,679 Speaker 4: scientists and have been with them ever since. 113 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 2: Before we get into your PhD and what a sports 114 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: scientist actually does, how did it feel to have a 115 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: chance to work with Football Australia and then when you 116 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:13,159 Speaker 2: also got the call up to work with the Matildas. 117 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 4: Yeah, I was a bit nervous to take on a 118 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 4: national team, having just done it a few internships. I 119 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 4: was a bit scared, to be honest, but it worked 120 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 4: out really well. I think going kind of into any 121 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 4: new job, there's always a huge learning curve. No matter 122 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,680 Speaker 4: how well you've done at university and how much you've studied, 123 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 4: there is a huge learning curve. And I think working 124 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 4: with the national team it allowed me to develop my 125 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 4: own skill set and my own way of kind of 126 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 4: working as a sports scientist, which I really enjoyed. And 127 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 4: I I got to go to the Under twenties World Cup. 128 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 4: That was my second ever tournament. I think it was 129 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,720 Speaker 4: my fifth ever match that I'd worked in national teams. 130 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 4: I don't have that many matches, and yeah, it was 131 00:05:58,320 --> 00:05:59,599 Speaker 4: a pretty cool experience. 132 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: So for someone who has no idea what is a 133 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 2: sports scientist and what do they do. 134 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, most people have no idea what the support scientist 135 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,480 Speaker 4: is when I started my degree, I don't think I 136 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 4: knew when I finished my degree. 137 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 3: I'm not sure if I fight you either. 138 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,960 Speaker 4: But essentially we're there to look after the physical performance 139 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:20,720 Speaker 4: of the athletes within the national teams. We work as 140 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:23,480 Speaker 4: both the sports scientists and the strength and conditioning coach, 141 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 4: so we look after things like their gym, their conditioning, 142 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,480 Speaker 4: whether that be on field or off field. Who work 143 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,400 Speaker 4: really closely with our nutrition as she works remotely that 144 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:35,839 Speaker 4: we implement in nutritional requirements for athletes and works with 145 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:39,239 Speaker 4: the chef. We work with the physios to help rehab 146 00:06:39,279 --> 00:06:42,760 Speaker 4: players and minimize injury risk. We work with the coaches 147 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 4: to help plan training sessions, but do things like their 148 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 4: warm ups, recovery as well, and a lot of it's 149 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 4: around the managing of the players loads. 150 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,800 Speaker 2: Let's talk a little bit about managing player loads and 151 00:06:53,920 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: the GPS devices that athletes wear. For a lot of 152 00:06:57,960 --> 00:07:00,080 Speaker 2: people who aren't involved in sport probably don't have a 153 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:02,760 Speaker 2: lot of background about why on Earth athletes wear GPS 154 00:07:02,839 --> 00:07:06,159 Speaker 2: fists and have someone tracking their every move when they're 155 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 2: training or playing. 156 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 3: Yep. 157 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,560 Speaker 4: So there's two parts to it. There's the performance element 158 00:07:11,600 --> 00:07:14,280 Speaker 4: and then there's the injury risk reduction element to it 159 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 4: as well. 160 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 3: So players obviously like a. 161 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 4: Certain number of kilometers in a match, a certain number 162 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 4: of high speed media so fast running, sprinting, accelerations and 163 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 4: decelerations so speeding up and slowing down and change of direction, 164 00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,560 Speaker 4: and all of those have a load on the body. 165 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 4: And we want our players to be able to achieve 166 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,360 Speaker 4: high fitness level, so they're able to run more when 167 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 4: they need to in a match and run fast when 168 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: they need to into a match, So we track that 169 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 4: in a match and we're able to kind of work 170 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,080 Speaker 4: out what they need to achieve through the week. But 171 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:49,800 Speaker 4: then also from an injury risk reduction performance point, if 172 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,040 Speaker 4: they aren't hitting certain metrics during the week and. 173 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 3: Then all of a sudden they go and play a 174 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:55,280 Speaker 3: full match. 175 00:07:55,640 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 4: Or they haven't done it for a number of weeks 176 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 4: and then go to play a full match, they're more 177 00:07:59,800 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 4: likely to be injured. So we want them to be 178 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 4: as fit as possible, to perform as quick and fast 179 00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 4: and strong as possible, but then also to reduce any 180 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 4: risk of injury. So in the national teams, we're in 181 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 4: a bit of a tricky spot where our players are 182 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 4: based in clubs all across the world, not all of 183 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 4: them even have GPS, so we try to get GPS 184 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 4: started from each of them, work out what our players 185 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 4: are doing so that when they come into camp we 186 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 4: don't push them too much and increase their injury risk. 187 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 3: We don't push them too. 188 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 4: Little as well and increase their injury risk, and then 189 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 4: we kind of get that continuation of care for those athletes, 190 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,200 Speaker 4: so there's not a club environment, then come into camp 191 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,839 Speaker 4: without properly care and then sending them back. 192 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:45,840 Speaker 2: There was a piece of research that I'd love some 193 00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,600 Speaker 2: insight on just on that topic that you're involved with, 194 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:52,480 Speaker 2: monitoring training load and wellness of female footballers transitioning between 195 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: club and national teams. We've seen a lot of public 196 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,719 Speaker 2: discussion off the back of people seeing the Materidas in 197 00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: the World Cup and then seeing them spread all across 198 00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: the world to their respective clubs. Can you give us 199 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:03,280 Speaker 2: some insight into that research. 200 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, So one of the research projects it was looking 201 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,600 Speaker 4: at simple measures that we could use to track our 202 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 4: players load and the way that they were responding to 203 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:14,400 Speaker 4: their load in terms. 204 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 3: Of their perceptual wellness. 205 00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,920 Speaker 4: So, as I said, with players being based across the world, 206 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,800 Speaker 4: they all have different GPS devices, so it's a bit 207 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,800 Speaker 4: difficult to be able to compare certain metrics, and some 208 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 4: clubs don't have GPS devices. So we use simple measures 209 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 4: like how many training sessions they were doing a week, 210 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:35,440 Speaker 4: the duration of each training session, and the intensity, which 211 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,880 Speaker 4: we track via what's got an rp E scale, which 212 00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: is rating of perceived exertion and from that we get 213 00:09:41,240 --> 00:09:44,320 Speaker 4: what's called a sessional RPE, so it's pretty much your 214 00:09:44,400 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 4: duration multiplied by your intensity gives you an overall load 215 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:48,199 Speaker 4: for a session. 216 00:09:48,800 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 3: So we looked at that. 217 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: In addition to the number of training sessions a week 218 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 4: and compared from two weeks prior then into the first 219 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:58,719 Speaker 4: week of camp, transitioning into the next week, and then 220 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,319 Speaker 4: two weeks back in their li club and what we 221 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 4: saw was was pretty typical of a national team environment, 222 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 4: is that when they go from a club environment to 223 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:09,680 Speaker 4: a national team, we've seen an increase in the number 224 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 4: of sessions, which makes sense. We have such a limited 225 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 4: time to work with our athletes. The coaches need to 226 00:10:14,800 --> 00:10:17,920 Speaker 4: get as much tactical and technical work into them to 227 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 4: make that team who's they saw across the world become 228 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: a national team and perform at their best. So whilst 229 00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,800 Speaker 4: we saw changes in for example, their training session count 230 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 4: increased when they came into camp that first week, we 231 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 4: saw a reduction in their match count, which is pretty typical. 232 00:10:34,400 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 3: It's usually just a. 233 00:10:35,080 --> 00:10:38,200 Speaker 4: Training period and then generally saw an increase in their 234 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 4: match count. So it's quite common to have can what 235 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,920 Speaker 4: we called congestive schedules in national teams again because it 236 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 4: is a short period and in tournament mode you have 237 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 4: instead of one match a week, you have two or 238 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 4: three matches a week. Although we saw those changes, we 239 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:56,200 Speaker 4: didn't see really any change in their perceptual wellness. So 240 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,320 Speaker 4: to us that suggested that maybe they were still recovering well, 241 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 4: they were still coping with the loads, although we know 242 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 4: that perceptual measures are just one side of it, so 243 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:09,520 Speaker 4: there could be things that we're not measuring that could 244 00:11:09,559 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 4: be changing with those responses to load. 245 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 2: So you obviously have to communicate a lot with all 246 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,320 Speaker 2: the different clubs that the players are playing out, but 247 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 2: then you also have a lot of different personality you 248 00:11:22,440 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: have to communicate within the national program as well. You 249 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: touch on like the nutritionist, physio, high performance, all those 250 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:30,040 Speaker 2: things like what is it like having to build those 251 00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 2: relationships with a huge range of different people. 252 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, so currently beseign the assistant. A lot of that 253 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 4: is on our Leedsport scientists, who's Timothy Knight. But having 254 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 4: worked in the under twenties before and under seventeens before 255 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,200 Speaker 4: that was my role, I think it's really important to 256 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 4: create relationships both within your team and also those clubs 257 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 4: externally because without that you can't ask them to be 258 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:57,400 Speaker 4: sending your data and doing this view and that view. 259 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,560 Speaker 4: So visually important that we have stronglationships yet within and 260 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,680 Speaker 4: outside of the teams, and I think Tim Knight, who's 261 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 4: currently in that role and the previous sports scientist who's 262 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,560 Speaker 4: been in the role, I have done that really well. 263 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 4: It's quite funny the national teams in the senior team, 264 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 4: a lot of them are based in non English speaking countries, 265 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,439 Speaker 4: so there's some things that lost in translation, or there's 266 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,160 Speaker 4: a bit of Google translation that is you sometimes, which 267 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 4: is entertaining. 268 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,160 Speaker 2: What has been the biggest challenge of your career so far? 269 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 3: Oh, the biggest challenge. 270 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 4: I think twenty twenty two when I was with the 271 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 4: under twenties national team, when I was with the under seventeens, 272 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 4: although it was my first year with the national teams 273 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 4: as a sports scientist, again it was a COVID year, 274 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 4: so I think we only had two camps that year. Unfortunately, 275 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,880 Speaker 4: I didn't really get to develop my sports science skills, 276 00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,920 Speaker 4: and then I was somewhat thrown in the deep end 277 00:12:52,920 --> 00:12:55,680 Speaker 4: with the under twenties who were going to the under twenties. 278 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 3: Well Cup that year, so I grew a lot as. 279 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 4: I think both they practitioner and a us in that 280 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 4: year being thrown in the deep end and trying to 281 00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 4: help this team of players who race all across Australia, 282 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:10,200 Speaker 4: who haven't had a lot of all in the previous 283 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 4: two years because of COVID and getting them physically to 284 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 4: their best point possible for the World Cup. There's also 285 00:13:17,040 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 4: a big discrepancy between the under twenty teams or the 286 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 4: youth teams and the senior teams in terms of things 287 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 4: like budget and tell me staff we have, so in 288 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:29,120 Speaker 4: the under twenty teams you're working almost twenty. 289 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 3: Four to seven. But it was a credible experience and 290 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 3: a huge challenge, but a very rewarding one. 291 00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,319 Speaker 2: I've been asking people lately it's sometimes a tricky question, 292 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:41,120 Speaker 2: but it's what is your favorite failure? 293 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, this one was a tricky one. 294 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 4: When I was prompted for it earlier, I had to 295 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 4: think for about it for a while, and a bit 296 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:51,560 Speaker 4: of a perfectionist, I hate that. 297 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 3: I hate making Mista get that vie from you. 298 00:13:53,760 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 2: I feel like a lot of the people who work 299 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 2: in sports on this area are very perfectionist, very data 300 00:13:58,880 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 2: driven don't like mistake. 301 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 4: Yeah, I went ling those days, but I was thinking 302 00:14:02,520 --> 00:14:05,520 Speaker 4: about it. And technically when I applied for university, I 303 00:14:05,559 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 4: applied for the Masters of Nutrition with Exercise and Sports 304 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 4: Science and I was close to getting in, but I 305 00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 4: didn't make it in. So technically I failed, and I'm 306 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 4: glad I did because when I did my first undergraduate 307 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 4: nutrition subject, I was like, oh, this is definitely not 308 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 4: for me, Like I love. 309 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 3: Nutrition, but not in the way that we were learning it. 310 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 4: So I'm glad I fail there and put me on 311 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 4: the path that I am now. And then I guess, 312 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 4: like I mentioned earlier, I failed to get into sport 313 00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,560 Speaker 4: without doing my honors degree and it's worked out again 314 00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 4: really well for me on the career progression that I've 315 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: had so far. 316 00:14:43,520 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. Let's take a look at your PhD. 317 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 2: Can you tell us a little bit about what it involves. 318 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, so I'm looking at the menstrual health and effects 319 00:14:52,920 --> 00:14:55,600 Speaker 4: of the menstrual cycle in terms of phase and symptoms 320 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:59,960 Speaker 4: on performance and recovery for football players, and the PhD 321 00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 4: is what actually got me connected with football Australia in 322 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,920 Speaker 4: the first place. My supervisors pretty much said, you can 323 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 4: do whatever you would like to do, and I figured 324 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,080 Speaker 4: that working with female athletes, doing something specific with females 325 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 4: would be really cool. There's also a huge gender gap 326 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,480 Speaker 4: in research. There was a review article between twenty fourteen 327 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:22,680 Speaker 4: and twenty twenty which showed that thirty five percent of 328 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 4: papers included female athletes or female size participants, which means 329 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:31,040 Speaker 4: sixty five percent were based exclusively on males and only 330 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,360 Speaker 4: six percent of those were based exclusively on females. 331 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:34,520 Speaker 2: Ridiculous. 332 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 4: It's crazy, and it's not just in sports science and exercise. 333 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 4: It's in a range of domains. But that really spoke 334 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 4: to me. And part of the reason for that is 335 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,200 Speaker 4: the menstrual cycle. So it's really hard to control for 336 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,800 Speaker 4: the menstrual cycle, and when we're doing research es samily, 337 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 4: what we're trying to do is look at the effect 338 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,240 Speaker 4: of changing one factor and how that affects another variable. 339 00:15:55,160 --> 00:15:56,920 Speaker 4: But then you have the menstrual cycle, which has these 340 00:15:56,960 --> 00:15:59,840 Speaker 4: fluctuations and hormones it's hard to really control for. 341 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 3: So that's part of. 342 00:16:01,640 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 4: The reason why females are underrepresented in research. We've also 343 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 4: had less female participants in sport, but that is increasing now, 344 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 4: so hopefully making my contribution to improving and increasing the 345 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 4: research for female athletes. 346 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such an incredibly important area. And can you 347 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,880 Speaker 2: touch on the menstrual health screening tool that you've developed 348 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 2: with some other staff as well. 349 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:26,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, So as part of my research, we actually were 350 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 4: first looking at just menstrual cycle for performance and then 351 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 4: we realized you have to have a healthy menstrual cycle 352 00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:34,920 Speaker 4: first before we can look at how we can use 353 00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 4: the menstual cycle to optimize performance. So we didn't really 354 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:41,040 Speaker 4: know what the menstal health landscape was for football. 355 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:41,600 Speaker 3: Players in Australia. 356 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 4: There are a few around general athletes, but none specifically 357 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:50,760 Speaker 4: within football. So we developed a menstrual health screening tool myself, 358 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 4: my PhD supervisor, the lea female doctor at the Matildas 359 00:16:54,760 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 4: which is Brandy Cole, and Mark Jones, who is the 360 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,600 Speaker 4: Men's Teams or Australia's Chief Medical Officer. 361 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,400 Speaker 3: And we developed a tool that. 362 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 4: Took a few minutes for players to complete, We could 363 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 4: be completed by all our age groups and then also 364 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,600 Speaker 4: had a component which looked at how players perceived the 365 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,240 Speaker 4: menstrual cycle to affect their performance. So pretty much runs 366 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:20,119 Speaker 4: through things like the symptoms d experience, checking for things 367 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 4: like infrequent and absent menstruation, hormonal contraceptive use, and then 368 00:17:25,840 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 4: whether they feel like the menstrual cycle affects them and 369 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 4: what time points and how it affects them. 370 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:32,760 Speaker 3: So their energy level, was their strength, their speed? 371 00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: For example, do you have a career highlight to date? Ah? 372 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I'm in the World Cup? Not talking about that. 373 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 3: The World Cup was pretty phenomenal. 374 00:17:45,359 --> 00:17:48,879 Speaker 4: I was actually called by the lead sports scientist at 375 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 4: the time on a Thursday night about a week after 376 00:17:53,119 --> 00:17:55,560 Speaker 4: I got back from Vietnam with the under twenties. We 377 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 4: just been to Vietnam for our qualifying campaign for the 378 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 4: Asian Cup and it had been like thirty eight degrees 379 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,200 Speaker 4: and ninety percent humidity and it was a pretty crazy tournament, 380 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:06,879 Speaker 4: but we won that. 381 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:07,400 Speaker 3: We got through. 382 00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 4: I got back and I didn't have a camp for 383 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 4: about two months, and I thought, great, I can't wait 384 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,440 Speaker 4: to get back into my PhD. And then the Leeds 385 00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:16,800 Speaker 4: Sport signers for Matilda's called me a Thursday night for 386 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,080 Speaker 4: about a week maybe a week and. 387 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:19,600 Speaker 3: A half after I got back and said, oh, you know, 388 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 3: how are you going? 389 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,639 Speaker 4: And I said, yeah, great, And I told him when 390 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 4: I was looking. 391 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 3: Forward to and I said, oh that's great. 392 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,040 Speaker 4: Let me chance you want to come up to the 393 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:29,280 Speaker 4: Gold Coast to help the Matildas for their pre World 394 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 4: Cup campaign. I thought, oh, oh yeah, so we'll see 395 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,040 Speaker 4: how it goes and then after the week, if the 396 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:37,639 Speaker 4: coach likes you, then you can stay for it for 397 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 4: the whole World Cup. I said, oh yeah, how long's 398 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 4: that for? And he goes about ten weeks? I got yeah, sure, 399 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:45,720 Speaker 4: nd you what? 400 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 3: He goes, so can you come up in like two days? Wow? Yeah, 401 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:52,040 Speaker 3: got a problem, you know, back my bag again. 402 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 4: So I went on up and I think it was 403 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,040 Speaker 4: a true Two days later, got the tick of approval 404 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,120 Speaker 4: from TG head coach and then we were a yeah 405 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:05,719 Speaker 4: in camp for ten weeks and I wouldn't look back. 406 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:09,359 Speaker 4: It was such a phenomenal experience to be part of it, 407 00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 4: to be part of not just the World Cup campaign, 408 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 4: but I feel like the shift in women's sport and 409 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,200 Speaker 4: how we view women's football in Australia was just incredible. 410 00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 4: And you know, I look back on footage of all 411 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 4: these people on that flight watching the Courtney Vine penalty 412 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:31,280 Speaker 4: kick or AFL matches screening the penalty shootout, and then 413 00:19:31,320 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 4: fans going inside when they turn it off and NBA 414 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,040 Speaker 4: matches being rescheduled. 415 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 3: That just makes me. 416 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 4: It makes me emotional when I think about it, because 417 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,399 Speaker 4: what a shift in women's sport we've seen. 418 00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:45,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a powerful moment. Do you have any 419 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 2: advice for maybe any young women who might be thinking 420 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,440 Speaker 2: about a career in sport or as a sports scientist. 421 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 3: Yeah. 422 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 4: When I teach what I teach at university as well, 423 00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:58,760 Speaker 4: and it seems like a pretty fifty to fifty split. 424 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 4: But then when we look in sporting environments, there's definitely 425 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,800 Speaker 4: more men working than women, which is there's somewhere a 426 00:20:07,920 --> 00:20:12,080 Speaker 4: drop off in the Matilda space, there's a lot more women. 427 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 4: But then when we look at men's teams, it's the 428 00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,560 Speaker 4: teams that I worked in, you know, it's nine percent men. 429 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 4: So whilst women may be looking at those and thinking 430 00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 4: it is disheartening, I think we are stigned to see 431 00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 4: an increase in women working in men's sport, not just 432 00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 4: female sports. So if it's something that you're interested, one 433 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:33,400 Speaker 4: hundred percent. 434 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 3: Give it a go. 435 00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,040 Speaker 4: We are just as good at men at working as 436 00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 4: sports scientists. I've met some phenomenal female practitioners, So yeah, 437 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 4: I just give it a go if you enjoy it. 438 00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 4: You know, I love my job. I really really look 439 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 4: forward to going into every camp. It doesn't feel like work, 440 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 4: so I think if it's something that they enjoy, then 441 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 4: go for it. 442 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 2: I love it. Thank you so much for your time today, Georgia, 443 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 2: and for your amazing insights. I've learned a lot. I'm 444 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:05,480 Speaker 2: such a nerd for that stuff. I think our listeners 445 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:06,760 Speaker 2: are going to get a huge amount out of it 446 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: as well, so glad, thanks so much, Thanks so much 447 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 2: for listening. If you got something out of this episode, 448 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,600 Speaker 2: I would absolutely love it if you could send it 449 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 2: on to one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, 450 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:22,000 Speaker 2: give us a review, and make sure you follow us 451 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 2: on Instagram at the Female Athlete Project to stay up 452 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 2: to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course, 453 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 2: news and stories about epic female athletes.