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Speaker 1: Welcome to Wine and Snacks, the podcast where we test

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Speaker 1: if you actually do solve the world's problems as you

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Speaker 1: drink more. I bring the wine, what he brings the

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Speaker 1: snacks woods. I've brought a bottle of Winds Kuniwara State

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Speaker 1: South Australian Cab SAV twenty nineteen, The Gables Limited release.

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Speaker 1: If you're going to drink a cab SAV, drink it

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Speaker 1: from South Australia or Western Australia.

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Speaker 2: If I'm being honest, but they do bloody good. I

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Speaker 2: wouldn't have thought.

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Speaker 3: So they don't all go.

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Speaker 1: They don't it all stop talking about things.

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Speaker 4: Nor do a delicious cabs.

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Speaker 5: I think they do a mango cab SAV. Don't leave

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Speaker 5: it in the sun though, I know.

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Speaker 2: So the Winds wins. Obviously Winds is.

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Speaker 1: One of the one of the one of the absolute

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Speaker 1: flagship wineries of Kunwara. Oh yeah, so the real winner

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Speaker 1: there is Bloody Allies on early What's your snack?

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Speaker 4: Fair enough?

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Speaker 6: So this is I believe it's either European or South America.

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Speaker 6: I'm not actually sure, but I know it's a well,

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Speaker 6: it's got a peculiar name.

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Speaker 4: It's a sha got a couple of Maria shuck.

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Speaker 2: They look like Sha and She.

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Speaker 3: Were both on early, aren't we?

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Speaker 6: So effectively they're Maria biscuits, but it's it's a wheat

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Speaker 6: free gluten freeze Maria.

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Speaker 2: They look.

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Speaker 5: Please you bring a delicious bottle of wine. Every week

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Speaker 5: Woody has been in charge of the snacks. When into

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Speaker 5: episode I believe six in the podcast that you want.

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Speaker 2: You want to control of the snacks.

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Speaker 3: This has got to be strike after that duck thing

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Speaker 3: that he brought.

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Speaker 6: In that last week I brought Twisty's boys, So please,

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Speaker 6: this is strike too.

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Speaker 4: Definitely we all get our own pack, so there's no issue.

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Speaker 1: Like we'll chuck into the shock and the cab as

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Speaker 1: we discuss ambition and why it will ruin your life.

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Speaker 1: You sack and wine.

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Speaker 7: This is a tasty burger.

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Speaker 8: In the US, and they very rich people like to

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Speaker 8: drink of wine. Bring what do you guys want?

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Speaker 1: Sour cream and onion ships with some dis beef jerkeys

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Speaker 1: and peanut butter.

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Speaker 2: It's some hunting.

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Speaker 1: Does ice cream, corn brink, crack and switch?

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Speaker 9: Ye, that's it.

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Speaker 2: I like to drink mine more rice.

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Speaker 6: All right, we've all bitten into our sharks. Can I

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Speaker 6: just same and not bad?

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Speaker 3: They're not bad.

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Speaker 5: Every night, my five year old, before he goes to

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Speaker 5: bed and I'm having a cup of tea, offers me

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Speaker 5: a Teddy Bear biscuit and I politely decline him because

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Speaker 5: that's the world's worst biscuit.

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Speaker 3: And that's what I'm having in my mouth right now.

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Speaker 2: I think it's not bad.

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Speaker 5: It's like McDonald's cookie. We're drinking wine, not tea. Boys tomorrow,

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Speaker 5: it's one time. It's wine and snacks. It's not liften

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Speaker 5: and snacks.

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Speaker 1: Though. Now we are talking about ambition today. One of

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Speaker 1: my this is what I love about it, the duality

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Speaker 1: of ambition, the irony of ambition, ironic. Well, I just

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Speaker 1: think that ambition is more often than not, You're like

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time it is somebody's greatest asset

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Speaker 1: and also their greatest curse. Ambition.

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Speaker 2: It's this double edged sword.

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Speaker 1: Can you the first question for you guys, because as

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Speaker 1: I thought about this, I was like, gee, whiz, is

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Speaker 1: there anything else that is often cited as a human's

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Speaker 1: greatest asset and their greatest curse? Don't say a man

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Speaker 1: with a big dick, because no one was thinking that.

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Speaker 6: Don't you accuse us of been gut of mind.

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Speaker 5: That is not a bad point, but it is in

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Speaker 5: that same sort of vein.

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Speaker 3: Pardon sorry, M that'll be edited out.

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Speaker 5: Surely I wouldn't have thought so, but yeah, I guess

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Speaker 5: the curse being if you want something so bad that

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Speaker 5: you're pursuing, you're doing anything to get it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah that's mission. Yeah, that's the yeah mission. And yeah

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Speaker 4: what about professionalism, you're asking for different ones?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, greatest set and greatest curse.

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Speaker 6: Because I think if you think about someone like Rafael Nadal,

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Speaker 6: for example, he has this almost superstitious professionalism about him.

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Speaker 4: He's a true story about Raphoun Adadale.

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Speaker 6: Every single year he's come to the Australian Open, he

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Speaker 6: organizes the exact same driver. So every time gets drivers,

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Speaker 6: I know the guy who drives Rafadal around driver Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 6: but only in Melbourne. But this guy quit driving players.

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Speaker 6: He didn't want to do it anymore. Rafa and Adal

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Speaker 6: contacted him and was like no, no, no, no, no, I

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Speaker 6: need you to drive me around. So every single year,

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Speaker 6: even though this guy's not a driver anymore, he still

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Speaker 6: drives around.

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Speaker 1: That professionalism or superstition, I think it borders on it

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Speaker 1: tips into it tips away from professionalism because it starts

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Speaker 1: becoming like that.

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Speaker 6: Okay, so maybe maybe I'll change my mans at the

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Speaker 6: superstition then, because I think that can be raf Ondol's

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Speaker 6: greatest strength though, because he thinks that if he does

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Speaker 6: certain things exactly the same, such as lining up his

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Speaker 6: drink bottles and in the same driver, he.

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Speaker 4: Can play better than anyone.

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Speaker 6: But I would say that's also his weakness because if

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Speaker 6: it doesn't, he doesn't.

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Speaker 1: Get it gives him confidence, yes, yeah, but if.

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Speaker 6: One thing goes wrong, that could throw him, like, yeah,

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Speaker 6: that's pretty good professionalism.

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Speaker 2: I a good, nice little anecdote about the.

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Speaker 1: Driver there, thank you. Yeah, yeah, I think that that

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Speaker 1: that's that's certainly something can be someone's greatest a set

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Speaker 1: in their greatest weakness as well. Arrogance if there if

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Speaker 1: you're a sports star, yeah, if it's going to create

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Speaker 1: confidence for you.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, And also there are some things that arrogant people

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Speaker 6: can do on a sporting field that it requires arrogance

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Speaker 6: to do with be like that, but again that can

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Speaker 6: be a short shortcoming.

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Speaker 1: Or I think if you're particularly talented at anything in general,

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Speaker 1: that can be your greatest blessing in your greatest curse,

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Speaker 1: because often if you are imbued with freakish talent. You

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Speaker 1: almost feel like you have to achieve because of that talent. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looks looks absolutely greatest greatest curse, no doubt, actouldly go way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the only one I had was hope.

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Speaker 4: Oh interesting, it's fine that one.

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Speaker 1: Well, I feel like hope is humanity's greatest asset and

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Speaker 1: it's its greatest curse. I feel like the fact that

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Speaker 1: we're very we're hopeful beings that keeps us going. We

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Speaker 1: haven't gotten your hope, we're desolate, we're shocking, Like it

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Speaker 1: keeps us going when we're when we're hopeful, but when

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Speaker 1: we haven't got hope anymore. Like if a person without hope,

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Speaker 1: like literally the people that, yeah, we're in lockdowns the moment.

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Speaker 2: It's the worst thing.

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Speaker 1: Ever, as soon as you take away a person's hope,

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Speaker 1: it's a great case. As soon as they've got hope,

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Speaker 1: they'll do anything.

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Speaker 4: Yeah's a good one.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, So that's that's that's what I kind of

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Speaker 1: wanted to focus on today with with ambition, And I

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Speaker 1: suppose that's why I said that it can ruin your

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Speaker 1: life is because it's a great thing. The great thing

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Speaker 1: about ambition is that and I was thinking about this today.

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Speaker 1: It's it's the fire that starts things that often becomes

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Speaker 1: the same fire that destroys them. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: we'll get into Macbeth a little.

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Speaker 2: Bit later on.

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Speaker 1: Don't you worry, boys, we're talking Shakespeare. Oh that's my favorite,

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Speaker 1: my favorite Shakespeare, Macbeth. And that's all about ambition.

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Speaker 2: Ambition is the thing that kills Macbeth in the end.

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Speaker 1: But if you think about any real movie where they

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Speaker 1: achieved something early on with as a grand plan, it's

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Speaker 1: more often than not it's the ambition that is the

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Speaker 1: idea that brings them down. So any heist movie, bank job,

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Speaker 1: point break, Italian job, yeah, point break, Sure, it was

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Speaker 1: point break.

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Speaker 4: They were always in and out in sixty seconds.

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Speaker 2: That was their rule.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 4: And the one time they break that rule because they

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Speaker 4: go for the vault, Yeah.

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Speaker 2: The vult for the big one, they get caught. That's

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Speaker 2: the time they get caught.

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Speaker 5: I never in a million years thought that that would

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Speaker 5: make sense, but it actually fits. So fad.

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Speaker 1: Bruce Almighty is another one. The whole point of Bruce

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Speaker 1: Lmighty has got these great ambitions to be this news anchor,

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Speaker 1: and then when he gets the powers to finally be

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Speaker 1: the news anchor. It's the fire that starts things, that's

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Speaker 1: that's the same fire that brings.

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Speaker 2: It all down because he just gets too caught up

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Speaker 2: in it.

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Speaker 1: Ambition left unchecked.

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Speaker 2: Is the end of everyone and everything.

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Speaker 6: You're too hard, Bruce and Susan not at the out

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Speaker 6: right now, Bruce, some women can handle that.

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Speaker 5: You used to star and Jag and my god, Susan,

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Speaker 5: she was a good actress in that.

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Speaker 4: Catherine Bell. Catherine Bell is that's right.

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Speaker 3: Supid movie references for you.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Ambissi also comes with sob before we get into wear

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Speaker 1: ambition spirals, because.

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Speaker 2: You know, we know that can happen to anyone.

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Speaker 1: The benefits of ambition are massive.

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Speaker 6: So it's sort of like having a goal or having

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Speaker 6: a vision of where you want to be is a

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Speaker 6: great motivator.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: It can get you to lengths or take you to heights.

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Speaker 6: It wouldn't be well, you wouldn't get to without some

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Speaker 6: level of ambition.

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Speaker 1: One of the greatest things that you can do in

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Speaker 1: your life is achieve a goal, Laddies.

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Speaker 2: That is an elite feeling.

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Speaker 1: And then the success that the feeling that if the

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Speaker 1: power of overcoming something that the idea of sticking. You know,

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Speaker 1: why do you think as forty year olds, you know,

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Speaker 1: or even thirty year olds, they should say people do

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Speaker 1: triathons and marathons and all that sort of stuff. Gives

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Speaker 1: you something to be ambitious about, and it gives you purpose.

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Speaker 1: You know, often if you if you haven't got an ambition,

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Speaker 1: you're rudderless and you're at sea. All is setting giving

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Speaker 1: yourself a goal to work, to work towards, and giving

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Speaker 1: yourself success. On the other side of that is massive success.

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Speaker 5: Is interesting too because a lot of what I'm going

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Speaker 5: to talk about today is like your career, and from

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Speaker 5: a lot of people listening to this, I'm interested to

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Speaker 5: see what you guys think. But I've worked in radio

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Speaker 5: since i was eighteen years old, yeah, even younger fifteen.

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Speaker 5: I'm thirty four now, and a big part of being

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Speaker 5: in the radio industry is striving for success, having the

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Speaker 5: best job you possibly can, yeah, and watching your friends.

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Speaker 3: There's a tree workers around you?

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Speaker 1: Is a tree, isn't it?

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Speaker 2: In radio?

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Speaker 1: Like there's a genuine Yeah, there's a genuine tree. Like

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Speaker 1: there's a bottom, there's the top, as I'm sure there

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Speaker 1: would be in any profession.

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Speaker 3: Really from my own personal perspective.

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Speaker 5: When I grew up in a small town in Darwin,

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Speaker 5: I started radio at a young age and success was

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Speaker 5: seen as working in a bigger capital city. So you

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Speaker 5: weren't successful in radio until you mauntered to Sydney or Melbourne.

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Speaker 2: Well, even like when we were in Perth.

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Speaker 1: Like, the only discussion when we were in Perth was

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Speaker 1: never jeez, boys, you could buy a house here and

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Speaker 1: settle down. But the only discussion we ever had was

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Speaker 1: if you keep doing this stuff, you might you might

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Speaker 1: go back to the East Coast.

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Speaker 3: Working like forty hot one hundred.

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Speaker 5: I love them because they gave him my start, but

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Speaker 5: it's just that smaller town radio when you're working long

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Speaker 5: hours and you're doing sort of like three different jobs

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Speaker 5: rolled into one, but the dream is sold to you.

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Speaker 5: You've got to go to the bigger station, the next step,

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Speaker 5: the next step, and you're not happy and you're not

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Speaker 5: successful until you land here.

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Speaker 3: Now, if you had told me you're going to.

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Speaker 5: Go to Perth and run a breakfast radio show and

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Speaker 5: earn this amount of money and be there for this

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Speaker 5: amount of years, I would have said that that'd be

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Speaker 5: the best I could possibly get. But interestingly, enough for

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Speaker 5: you guys. You had that role, but maybe people were

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Speaker 5: selling you no, no, no, no, no, you're not made it.

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Speaker 4: Till you're here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: The next step, though, you guys are going to host

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Speaker 3: an national radio show and go to all the cities.

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Speaker 2: Mate.

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Speaker 1: And this is this is truly the We're talking about

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Speaker 1: the ugly nature of ambition. This is truly the And

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Speaker 1: I'm going to bring it back to Macbeth again. And

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Speaker 1: even if you guys aren't, Macbeth kills everyone to become

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Speaker 1: the king because everyone by some witches that if he

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Speaker 1: gets told by the witches they plant at the very start,

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Speaker 1: they say, hey, look mate, if you play your cards right,

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Speaker 1: we can see you're being king.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 1: He gets all the way up to king because he

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Speaker 1: gets given, He gets given the ambition. And then that's

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Speaker 1: the genius of the witches. Is that Shakespeare's device for

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Speaker 1: just like you can if you plant ambition in someone's mind,

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Speaker 1: doesn't even if it can matter if it comes from

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Speaker 1: three of the ugliest, foulest creatures that you shouldn't trust.

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Speaker 1: If you give someone ambition that like it's ambitions disgusting

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Speaker 1: like that, like, they will follow it, They will hunt it,

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Speaker 1: and they will kill for it. And he gets all

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Speaker 1: the way to the top, and that the quota is,

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Speaker 1: he says, to be thus is nothing to be safely thus,

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Speaker 1: So in other words, he gets all the way to

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Speaker 1: the king and then he says, to be here.

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Speaker 2: All of a sudden he's nothing to me. I want now,

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Speaker 2: I want more.

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Speaker 1: Well, he gets worried that he hasn't got an air,

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Speaker 1: So how does he get in their so his family

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Speaker 1: can cement the can cement the throne.

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Speaker 2: And that's the thing with ambition, is that.

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Speaker 1: And again to speaking about the ugly nature of it,

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Speaker 1: is that you never with goals unless you are doing

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Speaker 1: it well, even with marathons and stuff like that. I

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Speaker 1: suppose with goals they're wonderful if if you've got the

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Speaker 1: capacity to get to the goal, get there and actually

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Speaker 1: sit down and enjoy what you've got.

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Speaker 2: Robert M.

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Speaker 1: Percy in the Zen and the Utter Motorcycle Maintenance talks

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Speaker 1: about these like two mountain climbers, and he said, one

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Speaker 1: mountain climber climbs the mountain, gets to the camp, gets

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Speaker 1: there and then goes to bed immediately, puts their tent,

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Speaker 1: type goes to bed immediately and then thinks about where

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Speaker 1: he's going to climb to the next day. Second kind

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Speaker 1: of mountain climber gets to the camp, puts his tent

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Speaker 1: up and then has a cup of tea and like

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Speaker 1: goes and checks out the view. And they're the two

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Speaker 1: mountain climber And if you if your head's screwed in

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Speaker 1: with the ambition side of things, it's really funny that

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Speaker 1: you were talking about the radio ladder but you're at

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Speaker 1: a country.

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Speaker 2: Town going to Perth.

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Speaker 1: We were in Perth already, so we were at your

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Speaker 1: mecha yep at that stage, but it was not mecha

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Speaker 1: for us because there was the East Coast to get to, exactly,

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Speaker 1: and I achieved that and went to Perth and then

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Speaker 1: three years later was in the position you guys were in.

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Speaker 3: I was like, bored of this.

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Speaker 1: Now how do I get And it's.

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Speaker 5: My wife, who's not in the industry, who's brilliant at

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Speaker 5: actually just slapping you in the face metaphorically speaking, I'm saying, mate,

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Speaker 5: just take a step back and actually smell the roses,

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Speaker 5: because they're really you're doing incredibly well and you're just

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Speaker 5: not seeing it. And that's kind of what I'm really

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Speaker 5: talking about, is that while you're trying to climb that ladder.

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Speaker 5: And this really works for anyone in their industry that

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Speaker 5: they're in that if you've got that mindset. All I'm

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Speaker 5: hearing from friends back home in Darwin and when am

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Speaker 5: I going to move back? When am I going to

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Speaker 5: buy a house? I've got two kids, while I'm like,

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Speaker 5: that's just not in my forefront right now, because I'm like, no, no, no,

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Speaker 5: I can't. I've spent fifteen years getting to this point.

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Speaker 5: I'm not just gonna very happy with my family life.

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Speaker 5: Just pull the flag out and go all right, well

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Speaker 5: that's it then and move back. And something that I

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Speaker 5: heard recently that I'm going to play for you guys

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Speaker 5: right now is a guy called Brandon Jack. You guys

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Speaker 5: know you footy really well. He's ki Kieren. Jack is

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Speaker 5: a Sydney Swans player. Played just under maybe three hundred

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Speaker 5: games of footy for the Swan former captain premiership player.

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Speaker 5: His younger brother was drafted to the Swans as well.

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Speaker 5: I just stumbled across this video on Instagram. It's a

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Speaker 5: snippet from the Dylan Friends podcast. Big shout out to Dill.

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Speaker 5: He's very very popular in the podcast world. Obviously subscribed

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Speaker 5: to him after you subscribe to us, of course, but

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Speaker 5: he interviewed him and it was Brandon Jack who was

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Speaker 5: talking about obviously having this older, successful brother and he's

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Speaker 5: doing everything in his power to come as elite as him,

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Speaker 5: but what he perceives is success and his drive and

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Speaker 5: everything that he was doing to get to that position

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Speaker 5: in how toxic things became for him.

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Speaker 10: In my third year, Isaac Haney came in and played

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Speaker 10: round one, and I thought that that spot was mine.

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Speaker 10: I'd had this great three season. The media was saying

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Speaker 10: I was going to take the next step. But hein's

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Speaker 10: played and he's as far better player than I was.

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Speaker 10: But in my mind, I'm convincing myself that spot's mine.

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Speaker 10: I'm like, fuck you guys, I'm the best small forward

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Speaker 10: in this team. That's my spot. So then I'm watching

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Speaker 10: the game from the grand stands and every time heines

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Speaker 10: near the footy, I'm like, don't touch it. I'm like,

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Speaker 10: I hope he doesn't touch it. Or I'm counting his stats.

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Speaker 10: I know how many stats he's had in my head,

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Speaker 10: and I'm kind of like, all right, if he doesn't

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Speaker 10: get any more than you know, they might drop him.

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Speaker 10: Because I've been dropped for having twelve touches other times.

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Speaker 10: I remember I wrote like fuck horse a few times

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Speaker 10: in my diary because I was like, he's not picking me,

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Speaker 10: even though he's not the one really making the complete decision.

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Speaker 10: But you pick people to be like I'm going to

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Speaker 10: prove you wrong, Like I'm going to make you look stupid.

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Speaker 10: I'm gonna have forty touches in the resis fucking toxic

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Speaker 10: when you think about it.

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Speaker 5: But yeah, So that's a great clip of that interview

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Speaker 5: that he had on the Dylan Friend's podcast, which really

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Speaker 5: hit me because when you're not in the job that

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Speaker 5: you perceive as being successful, and you're watching friends and

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Speaker 5: other people in the industry that you don't even know

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Speaker 5: amazing jobs and get the success that you crave, you're

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Speaker 5: shooting them down. You've become this really toxic person that

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Speaker 5: that person's not talented. I'm better than that. Why would

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Speaker 5: you give that person from that reality show? They're not

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Speaker 5: funny at all? And you just get this real toxic

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Speaker 5: culture in your brain until you actually realize that.

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Speaker 1: What you have, what you have is good and Funnily enough,

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Speaker 1: we're talking about jealousy being the ugly cousin of ambition.

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Speaker 1: If I can bring it back to Shakespeare again, I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry to do this too. I know it's going to

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Speaker 1: keep happening as well. The expression, the expression green eyed

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Speaker 1: jealousy is Shakespeare invented that green eyed jealousy. And that's

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Speaker 1: because he viewed jealousy as a sickness. So like in

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Speaker 1: antiquity you talk about people being you know, like in cartoons,

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Speaker 1: when you used to watch cartoons and someone was sick,

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Speaker 1: they always turned that shade of green.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, ben poison.

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Speaker 4: They turned the spew face emoji green like face.

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Speaker 1: Actually it's a green face. So the reason it's green

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Speaker 1: is because in antiquity, the Greeks used to associate somebody

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Speaker 1: turning green as being sick. That was the color that

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Speaker 1: they associated because they didn't have a great grasp on

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Speaker 1: colors back then, so they always turning green.

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Speaker 2: Right, if he's sick.

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Speaker 1: Shakespeare says that jealousy is a sickness. You actually get

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Speaker 1: sick with jealousy.

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Speaker 2: It's not you feel revolting.

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Speaker 1: Think about all, but you catch yourself yes, and then

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Speaker 1: you look at what you're thinking about someone listening to

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Speaker 1: your brand and Jack saying like, you know, like knowing

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Speaker 1: his stats, like wishing poorly upon others, wanting for your

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Speaker 1: own success his ambition.

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Speaker 2: It's a shocking feeling.

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Speaker 5: Best friend was like, had this amazing career opportunity, and

400
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Speaker 5: I remember I feel I felt awful when he told

401
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Speaker 5: me on the phone about it. I think about that

402
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Speaker 5: all the time in my early twenties. Like he's like,

403
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Speaker 5: I'll tell you right now. It's his wild story.

404
00:17:48,280 --> 00:17:50,080
Speaker 3: He just said he was doing some modeling.

405
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Speaker 5: Good looking fella, and he was like, there's a chance

406
00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:55,719
Speaker 5: I might be going to New Zealand to be a

407
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Speaker 5: power Ranger.

408
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Speaker 2: Wow.

409
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Speaker 1: I was like watching he was competing with me for

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Speaker 1: that role.

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Speaker 3: Which one. You know, he was the red, I was

412
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Speaker 3: the blue Blue.

413
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Speaker 4: He was when you he was.

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Speaker 6: He was set to go in for like a rig test,

415
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Speaker 6: so like I was rig test.

416
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Speaker 9: Failed the rig test, blue test, he didn't.

417
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Speaker 6: This guy stuck on d.

418
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Speaker 3: Can we order an extra large t Rex helmet for

419
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Speaker 3: the Blue Ranger?

420
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Speaker 2: Yeah?

421
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Speaker 4: So your mate was he came.

422
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Speaker 5: He called me, No, he didn't get it, but he

423
00:18:37,520 --> 00:18:39,560
Speaker 5: was auditioning for it and it was taking a few

424
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Speaker 5: steps for it to happen. I just remember feeling sick

425
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Speaker 5: to my stomach. I didn't want to be a red

426
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Speaker 5: Ranger or I wasn't don't even want it, but I

427
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:49,679
Speaker 5: was struggling in the radio industry, and of course my

428
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Speaker 5: best mate was having this amazing opportunity.

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Speaker 3: Fuck you, Yeah, and ambition did that to me.

430
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Speaker 5: And yeah, it's still to this day I think about

431
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Speaker 5: some of the ways that I felt in that part

432
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Speaker 5: of my career, even just watching people get like okay,

433
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Speaker 5: jobs just and you.

434
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Speaker 1: Feel it and then you can't stop those feelings as well,

435
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,120
Speaker 1: and you've got to say, like, it's a primal I think.

436
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 1: I think the real problem there is to judge yourself

437
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 1: for feeling that way because it's a primal response.

438
00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:21,359
Speaker 6: I like, totally, Well that's from evolution within your clan. Yeah,

439
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 6: you want to be the top dog, and if someone

440
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,200
Speaker 6: else is becoming the alpha male, you want to bring

441
00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,560
Speaker 6: that person owns the f malgan. It is ingrained us

442
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,560
Speaker 6: to feel that. Yeah, I heard who's the guy who

443
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,040
Speaker 6: runs the big podcast. It looks like Zach Braff.

444
00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:33,920
Speaker 2: The Big Podcast.

445
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:37,160
Speaker 6: Big Podcast. It's a huge podcast. It's a huge podcast.

446
00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:40,880
Speaker 6: He's married to Kristen Bell Dak Sheer. Dak Shepherd had

447
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,760
Speaker 6: Matt Damon recently on his podcast, and he was literally

448
00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 6: saying to Matt Damon's face, he.

449
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 4: Was like every movie you did, like like you did

450
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:49,879
Speaker 4: you know?

451
00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:53,639
Speaker 6: The first movie was WI hunting Dack sheperd watching his

452
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:57,639
Speaker 6: go fuck you Yeah, I hate that You're in all Wow.

453
00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:00,760
Speaker 5: He's got a big complex on that too, with success

454
00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,600
Speaker 5: and like, yeah, you're hearing a lot in his podcast,

455
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:04,159
Speaker 5: Like if we're.

456
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: Being totally candid, I remember when we were in Perth.

457
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,040
Speaker 1: We were in Perth wood and doing Bricky Radio and

458
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: Perth and I remember Dan and Maz came over. Oh

459
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, Dan and mas came over and Woody and

460
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,480
Speaker 1: I we effectively Hamer Shandy finished doing drive radio and

461
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,560
Speaker 1: Woody and I. I remember we were doing weekends and

462
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:26,240
Speaker 1: when I look back on it now, it's hilarious because

463
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:29,399
Speaker 1: we were nowhere near it, Like we were nowhere.

464
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:30,960
Speaker 4: Near it, but that's not where. That's not what we were.

465
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:33,640
Speaker 3: And you don't think that when you're on.

466
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,879
Speaker 1: The way and we're thinking, that's our job, Like you know,

467
00:20:36,280 --> 00:20:42,199
Speaker 1: Hamer Shanny retiring, we're the obvious choice. And I remember whoever,

468
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 1: Craig Bruce or whoever it was picked Dan and Mans

469
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 1: to go and do it. I remember Ab Adrian Bryan

470
00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 1: used to be the guy that used to look after

471
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: us and Briani like like probably would have said to them,

472
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,120
Speaker 1: William Woody aren't there yet. And I remember sitting down

473
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:58,360
Speaker 1: with him at the time and being like what the fuck,

474
00:20:58,480 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: like how are we not?

475
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,320
Speaker 2: How we've not been put up with this job?

476
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:02,919
Speaker 1: And I remember he in turn of me and he

477
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:06,439
Speaker 1: was just like, mate, Dan Boof's an absolute gun. And

478
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,600
Speaker 1: I remember being like fuck that, and like going and

479
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,240
Speaker 1: watching clips of Dan de Boof do radio in Adelaide

480
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,199
Speaker 1: because I was like, I've got to see how this

481
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,399
Speaker 1: guy is better than me. And then when we were

482
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,120
Speaker 1: in Perth, Dan and Maz did the national tour as

483
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:21,760
Speaker 1: Drive Shows.

484
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: Do We're still waiting for our tour?

485
00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:28,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I remember Dan and Mas came over as

486
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:30,240
Speaker 1: the show like this is the new Drive Show and

487
00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:32,000
Speaker 1: I couldn't even look that bloke in the eye.

488
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:32,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

489
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: I remember just being gutted and like actually furious at him.

490
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 7: And he's a lovely guy and I could not get

491
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 7: around him for the same He knew it as well,

492
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 7: like you know, you know, like you know, when you're

493
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:46,880
Speaker 7: acting weird around someone in that scenario and you're giving

494
00:21:46,880 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 7: off that awful vibe that you care that they're better.

495
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,840
Speaker 1: Than you, that you care that they're more successful than you.

496
00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,879
Speaker 1: And I remember seeing him and then they went and

497
00:21:54,880 --> 00:21:57,159
Speaker 1: did Sydney Breakfast Radio and then like they you know,

498
00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: just walked into just a death job there, which as

499
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: we know, no one can hold up that shift. They

500
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: took over after Coylin Jackie, absolute death slot for them,

501
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:08,760
Speaker 1: and I remember he came over. He lives in Perth,

502
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: so he actually came down and had a beer with

503
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,040
Speaker 1: this a little bit later on.

504
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,159
Speaker 2: I don't think.

505
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's ever going to listen to this,

506
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,440
Speaker 1: but like I genuinely would like to apologize that bloke

507
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:18,119
Speaker 1: because I remember having a beer with him afterwards, and

508
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 1: when the game was up, which is this is the

509
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,199
Speaker 1: worst part about it, talking about how ugly ambition is.

510
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:24,720
Speaker 1: When the game was up, when he was when he

511
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,719
Speaker 1: wasn't competing for the job that I wanted anymore, I

512
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,399
Speaker 1: was able to get around even had to deal with him,

513
00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:31,440
Speaker 1: and I felt normal. That's yuck.

514
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: Looking back on that.

515
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 5: You shouldn't feel so bad because you'd be able to

516
00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,480
Speaker 5: tell this story because that's someone you'd never met who

517
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:39,560
Speaker 5: got a job over you. I remember you telling me

518
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:44,119
Speaker 5: about Ryan Shelton being close friends with Hamish.

519
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:46,280
Speaker 4: Go and listen to and I know we shouldn't be

520
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 4: pushing another podcast, but.

521
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:48,760
Speaker 2: That's all we do on this podcast. Go to the

522
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 2: push other people's podcasts.

523
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:51,920
Speaker 3: Actually, then you tell of the podcast.

524
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,000
Speaker 6: Go to the imperfect podcast and go and listen to

525
00:22:56,040 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 6: the chat that Ryan Shelton does.

526
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:02,080
Speaker 4: It is extraordinary. I was in tears listening to it.

527
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:06,760
Speaker 6: And I don't want to butcher or summarize. He's got

528
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,360
Speaker 6: to go and see it. But effectively, it's Ryan being

529
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:13,200
Speaker 6: best mates with Hamish Blake doing Hamish, Andy and him

530
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,080
Speaker 6: are all doing a radio show. And then he sort

531
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:19,600
Speaker 6: of gets not deliberately and he makes it very clear.

532
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 6: It's like they didn't kick him out, but it became

533
00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 6: very clear that Hamish and he really had a thing

534
00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:25,040
Speaker 6: going and it wasn't quite working with him. And then

535
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 6: he basically watched what happened to Hamish and Andy and

536
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,840
Speaker 6: then just could not be happy for that success and

537
00:23:32,880 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 6: like it's his best mate. He loves this guy, but

538
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,480
Speaker 6: he's like, I just cannot be happy for everything working for.

539
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: You so awkward. That's exactly what happened to me. With

540
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 3: you guys.

541
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 5: I met you in Perth and then you just left

542
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:47,200
Speaker 5: me there like a dog tied to a pole.

543
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: At the front of an old video store.

544
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 6: Ryan is a great, great story though, because what Ryan

545
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 6: does now and another thing you go and see is

546
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,879
Speaker 6: got to Ryan dot com. Ryan with eleven Wise he

547
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:02,960
Speaker 6: makes a video every single month. And the reason he

548
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 6: does that is because he went back to why do

549
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:07,239
Speaker 6: I do this? What do I love doing? I love

550
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:09,959
Speaker 6: making videos, and it's not to get somewhere. It's not

551
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 6: to have the ambition to get on TV. And he

552
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 6: says that I wanted to be the star of my

553
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:13,160
Speaker 6: own TV.

554
00:24:13,359 --> 00:24:14,159
Speaker 4: He doesn't have that anymore.

555
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 6: It's like, I just want to make comedy and write

556
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:18,200
Speaker 6: comedy and perform in comedy.

557
00:24:18,400 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 4: And that perfectly segues into what I want to bring you.

558
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,399
Speaker 1: Son of a Bitch Cop, because I was like, that

559
00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: segues so nicely into my.

560
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 5: Well, don't enjoy it too long, because we know how

561
00:24:31,119 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 5: we transition anyway.

562
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:35,760
Speaker 6: It's it's, it's, it's, it's, it's it's let's let's let's

563
00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:41,639
Speaker 6: just leave there behind. You brought much as a little story,

564
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 6: great shining think to make the story maybe a bit

565
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,280
Speaker 6: more finish your ship, Cracker, it's not a shp crackers

566
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:49,640
Speaker 6: a shock.

567
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:51,680
Speaker 1: I'm enjoying my shot.

568
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:53,159
Speaker 6: You can just play me, Joel. I'm going to tell

569
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 6: a story about a little boy in a sand pit.

570
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,400
Speaker 6: Just give me some sort of ambience. Ambience, just just ambience,

571
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:07,800
Speaker 6: just see nature sense, just some sense sentimental, nice ambient.

572
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,800
Speaker 4: That's your brief. Give you ten seconds, ten seconds.

573
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,560
Speaker 1: Give me some fucking ambience, stroll ambience. Just give me

574
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: something nature ambience, just all.

575
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 4: Calming or gorgeous.

576
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 3: Wow, fucking know. Yeah, we have a shark.

577
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 5: That's how I climbed the ladder from Darwin to Perth

578
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:31,320
Speaker 5: to Melbourne.

579
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,639
Speaker 4: Okay, so it's just story.

580
00:25:34,720 --> 00:25:36,680
Speaker 6: It's not a true story, but I think it's a

581
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 6: nice metaphor for ambition.

582
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 4: So this little boy who loves nothing more than.

583
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 6: Playing in a sandpit, yeah says he just nothing is

584
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 6: more fun than playing in this sandpit. A grown man

585
00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:51,800
Speaker 6: watches the little boy playing in the sandpit, just sees

586
00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 6: him playing the sandpit. This is.

587
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:56,480
Speaker 8: That man.

588
00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: He's hitting down the whole time, and his eyes were

589
00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: just shot and he's like, fuck, men, mate, where is

590
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:07,960
Speaker 1: this going? All of a sudden, you're taking us to

591
00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:09,960
Speaker 1: a place. We've got a groin man watching a kid

592
00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 1: in the sandpit.

593
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,040
Speaker 2: You've got the music.

594
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,880
Speaker 6: It's gonna he said, he's gonna be a stay dread.

595
00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:22,280
Speaker 4: No, I have to tell this.

596
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 2: Saying does he ask him how's the water, because I mean.

597
00:26:28,640 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 4: There's no water, So there's a groan.

598
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 6: There's a grown man watching this boy playing the sandpit,

599
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,640
Speaker 6: and the grown man from the distance, From a.

600
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 4: Distance, it's not creepy. Don't make it weird.

601
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 6: The grown man gets so much joy Jesus out of

602
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 6: watching the boy in the sandpit, just from seeing how

603
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 6: much fun he's having.

604
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 4: He's like so inspired.

605
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 6: By watching this kid enjoy playing the sand so much.

606
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 6: He walks up to the boy and he goes, if

607
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 6: you come back here every day and do this, I'll

608
00:26:57,680 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 6: pay you two dollars.

609
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 4: I'll pay you two dollars. Stop being sick. Stop being

610
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:02,879
Speaker 4: sick about it. Just lame weird about it.

611
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 6: It's just the joy that he's having. I'll pay you

612
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:09,480
Speaker 6: two dollars. And the boy goes, holy shit, buddy, Bloddy

613
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 6: love this.

614
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 2: This isn't this up?

615
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, oh.

616
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:17,359
Speaker 1: You've made this up. This is not an anecdote that

617
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,040
Speaker 1: you read in a book.

618
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:19,919
Speaker 3: I heard this.

619
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:21,359
Speaker 2: I heard this.

620
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 4: I heard this Edward White. No, no, no, I don't even

621
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 4: made this happen.

622
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,840
Speaker 1: So yes, I'll give you.

623
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 6: Every single day if you come back here and just

624
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 6: keep playing the same bit. The kid's like, awesome, ship, Yeah,

625
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 6: two bucks a day and it's just doing what I love.

626
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 6: So that arrangement happens, goes for a while. One day

627
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 6: the old man.

628
00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:39,040
Speaker 1: Sorry, just before you go on, can I just interject very.

629
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 4: Good because you can inject just much.

630
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: This is eerily about three years ago.

631
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: Will and I were at this music festival called Meredith

632
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 1: Music and and a very very similar setup happened where

633
00:27:48,800 --> 00:27:49,160
Speaker 1: I was.

634
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 2: Sitting having a beer on the hill and what he

635
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:52,480
Speaker 2: was down, you know, two.

636
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: Hundred meters in front of me, And he comes running

637
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 1: back up to the hill and he's like, well, Will, Will,

638
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,560
Speaker 1: I just need your advice on something really quickly.

639
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 2: And I was like, yeah, far away, what's up mate?

640
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: And he goes, I've just seen this child dancing, his

641
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: five year old child dancing. I've been watching him dance

642
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 1: for about twenty minutes. And I was like yeah, and

643
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: he goes. I think I found out where his parents are.

644
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: Would like to give them twenty dollars, so that so

645
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 1: that I can tell them how much I appreciate watching

646
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: their child.

647
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: And I was like.

648
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:22,639
Speaker 6: Family, I had the best of intention, but I'm not.

649
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 6: The kid was just like break dancing. It was extraordinary anyway,

650
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,960
Speaker 6: and there's and you were after seven hundred beers, I had.

651
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 4: A million beers.

652
00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 6: And then again I realized that anyway to my.

653
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,119
Speaker 3: Story, dances amazing.

654
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 6: So to bring you back, to bring you back to

655
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,200
Speaker 6: the made up story, the old man. This arrangement goes

656
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 6: on for a while. Kid gets two bucks a day.

657
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 6: She's playing the sandpit, loving it, loving it, loving it.

658
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 6: One day, the old man walks up to him and goes, hey, mate.

659
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 4: I'm really really sorry. Yeah, but I'm not going to

660
00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 4: be able to pay you anymore.

661
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm not going to be able to pay you anymore,

662
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 6: but you know whatever. So and he walks away, and

663
00:28:55,560 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 6: the little boy then goes, well, I'm not going to

664
00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 6: play in the sandpit then, And the guy's like why,

665
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 6: but don't you love doing it? And he's like, no,

666
00:29:03,280 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 6: if you're not going to pay me, then I'm not

667
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 6: going to do it.

668
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 2: Right.

669
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 6: And the point of that story is that this was

670
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:11,720
Speaker 6: something that this kid loved, yeah, and then when he

671
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 6: was getting paid for it, it was like, this is

672
00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:13,640
Speaker 6: the dream.

673
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm doing what I love and I'm getting paid.

674
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:17,040
Speaker 6: But then all of a sudden, as soon as the

675
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 6: money went, the money is gone, and it's like, you

676
00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 6: don't enjoy doing the thing anymore.

677
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 4: And I think that can relate to anything that we.

678
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 2: Do getting paid for it.

679
00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 4: As soon as.

680
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 6: There's money or a title attached to it, it's like great,

681
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 6: and then you take that away and it's like, don't

682
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 6: you love doing that thing?

683
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: Yeah?

684
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,400
Speaker 1: Blood Actually, funnily enough, on that same principle, you know,

685
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:45,040
Speaker 1: you know that I like DJing, Yeah yeah, I never ever, ever,

686
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: ever have ever charged for DJing.

687
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah.

688
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: Relationship for I'll see it as something that I have

689
00:29:52,640 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 1: to do, and I'll think about it in a different way.

690
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 2: I think that for anyone.

691
00:29:56,960 --> 00:29:59,200
Speaker 1: It's funny, like when you have those stories where people

692
00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 1: have burnouts effectively professionally, we.

693
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 6: Look at like a Naomi Osaka.

694
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: That's right.

695
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: Health funnily enough, So, okay, so your mental you mentioned

696
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: mental health, right, so one hundred percent and this is

697
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 1: we're talking about. So we sort of discussed success and

698
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: the benefits of ambition, what my my depression when I

699
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:23,720
Speaker 1: get when I get depressed.

700
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 4: That is.

701
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 1: Unavoidably linked to my ambition that that that is that

702
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: is the trigger and that you mentioned the Imperfect podcast before.

703
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: This is something I spoke about when I was on

704
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 1: the Imperfect podcast.

705
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 2: Is when we were kids.

706
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: When when you and I went to school, would and

707
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying this is the same for every school,

708
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:43,920
Speaker 1: but certainly for the school that you and I went to,

709
00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:49,920
Speaker 1: we got taught ambition. Like there was never a subject

710
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 1: where it was like year eight ambition. It was just

711
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 1: like the undercurrent for the entire thing for everything that

712
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:57,960
Speaker 1: we did.

713
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 6: Well you talked about in the podcast and I'm quoting

714
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,000
Speaker 6: you here, which wild for you.

715
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 2: But it was hurting me.

716
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,160
Speaker 4: To me, it was it was Will McMahon who said

717
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 4: perfect podcast.

718
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,360
Speaker 6: But we were surrounded by they were honor boards, leaderboards.

719
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 6: I was on what a few and there was also.

720
00:31:14,080 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 1: We wore a jacket, Yeah we're a blazer.

721
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 4: The jacket that we wore in year twelve had on

722
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 4: it honor.

723
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 6: So it was like I played first eight in football,

724
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 6: I'm in the drama performance.

725
00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,680
Speaker 1: So you could look at someone and you could gauge

726
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:29,680
Speaker 1: how successful they were just by looking at them, like

727
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:30,360
Speaker 1: those old.

728
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:33,480
Speaker 5: Cheesy American movies where you know the high school jocks

729
00:31:33,520 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 5: wearing the leather jacket.

730
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 3: That's right, American high school.

731
00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: That's right, and it's the status symbol. But this was

732
00:31:38,120 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: but this is this is something that was taught to

733
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 1: us like it wasn't. It wasn't something that was like incidental.

734
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,080
Speaker 1: It was, well, it was incidental, but it was it

735
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: was incidentally implies that it was in the background.

736
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:50,960
Speaker 2: This was everything.

737
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: Every single thing that we did at that school was

738
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: how well have you done that? Where where did you

739
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: where did you come in that race? How how well

740
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: grade did you get on that subject? What position do

741
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: you hold in year twelve?

742
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 2: Are you on? And on a board?

743
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: There was no which is fine because as we've discussed,

744
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 1: like there's nothing better than achieving a goal, like that's

745
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 1: a great feeling, but you need to provide people with

746
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:17,640
Speaker 1: an alternative to that, and if you don't, then what

747
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: happens is you get on the ambition ladder, you get

748
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: the on the the rat race effectively where you have

749
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: to knuckle down and you achieve all these goals, and

750
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: what happens is you get to the age of about

751
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,479
Speaker 1: you know twenty five whatever it is, certainly was with

752
00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: me when I first sort of had a bit of

753
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: a breakdown, right when I was in Perth, where I was.

754
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 2: Like, fuck, I actually can't go any further.

755
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 1: Like I'm trying my hardest, I'm doing everything I possibly can.

756
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 1: I'm studying a fucking law degree, I'm doing this commercial

757
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 1: radio show. I'm doing everything I can to get as

758
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 1: far as I can. But the reality was that the

759
00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: goalposts were almost out of my sight. They were so

760
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 1: far ahead of me. So it all comes crashing down

761
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:02,200
Speaker 1: because I didn't know to derive satisfaction from anything else

762
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: other than setting a goal and achieving it.

763
00:33:04,440 --> 00:33:06,480
Speaker 2: That was my model. That was like, set a goal,

764
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 2: achieve it, you'll be happy.

765
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:10,440
Speaker 1: And if I'm not doing that, where else am I happy?

766
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:18,400
Speaker 1: And that's really the overwhelming flaw in ambition is that

767
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 1: the desire to fulfill the narrative is great up until

768
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,960
Speaker 1: the point where the narrative doesn't go the way that

769
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: you want it to, and then you're cooked.

770
00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:26,800
Speaker 2: You actually cooked.

771
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: And if your whole life leans into that and relies

772
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,000
Speaker 1: on that when it slips through your fingers, if you

773
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: haven't got another thing to fall back onto, then you're

774
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: going to run into big trouble.

775
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 6: I think the other way around it, though, is to

776
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,840
Speaker 6: as long as you're enjoying the thing that you're going towards,

777
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 6: then then if you don't get to the place you

778
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 6: want to get to, yeah, and it's fine.

779
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:48,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, great, exactly, And that ties perfectly into the thing

780
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:49,760
Speaker 1: that I brought this way.

781
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 6: It's it's it's, it's it's it's it's let's let's let's

782
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 6: just leave that behind.

783
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 4: It made such a good point.

784
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 6: Then you played mistuttering, so yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

785
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 5: Stuttering Steve aka stuttering stab Ross stuttering stab Ross have

786
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 5: an egg.

787
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,760
Speaker 3: We should almost do that every week.

788
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,279
Speaker 5: It feels like it feels right when the subject change

789
00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,480
Speaker 5: happens and we hear it's a.

790
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 4: Nice breakers, a nice breaker.

791
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: So the tox so the toxicity of ambition is that, yeah, sure,

792
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 1: you set this goal, you achieve it.

793
00:34:21,280 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: Great.

794
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 1: The issue is, as you just said, Woods, that if

795
00:34:25,560 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 1: the thing, well, the good thing can be that even

796
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 1: if that goal that you've got is along, So let's

797
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:35,320
Speaker 1: call it like your nirvana, well, like your sudden your horizon,

798
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: it's your north star, right, the thing that you're going towards,

799
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 1: you can still have that. You can still be ambitious,

800
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:44,439
Speaker 1: you can still have a north Star. But the key

801
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,720
Speaker 1: is to have the north Star without that being everything

802
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 1: for you. And the key is if you can still

803
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:51,960
Speaker 1: enjoy what you're doing right now. And the irony of that,

804
00:34:52,080 --> 00:34:56,360
Speaker 1: the real irony of that, is that if you're focusing

805
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 1: too hard on.

806
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 2: The north Star, you will not enjoy the thing you're doing.

807
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 2: The more that you want.

808
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 1: The north Star, the less you'll enjoy what's going on.

809
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: And particularly, and I hope this is I think this

810
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: would be the case in other professions, but particularly with creativity,

811
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,520
Speaker 1: because when you're thinking too much about where you're getting to,

812
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:19,400
Speaker 1: your creativity goes to absolute shit. Because in order to

813
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,360
Speaker 1: be creative, you have to have fun. In order to

814
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: be creative, you need to let go of your ambition.

815
00:35:23,160 --> 00:35:25,280
Speaker 1: You need to play right, you need to put yourself

816
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 1: in a play mode. And what I've got here is

817
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:30,720
Speaker 1: a talk that you're very familiar with. Woods is John Cleese,

818
00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: one of the greats from Monty Python goes on to

819
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: be one of the great comics of all time. There's

820
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: a talk with him talking. It's like it's a talk

821
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: from the nineteen eighties, I think, and he's talking to

822
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of directors company CEOs obviously paid him

823
00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: a gazillion dollars to pay off one of his bad divorces,

824
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:51,839
Speaker 1: and he's rocked up, and he does this talk on

825
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,839
Speaker 1: how you can best be creative for anyone that hasn't

826
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:57,080
Speaker 1: got it? Can we link stuff on the podcast? Can

827
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,120
Speaker 1: we put like links somewhere? Yeah, well, I'll talk a

828
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,520
Speaker 1: link on this podcast so you guys can actually click

829
00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 1: on it and go and watch this talk for yourself,

830
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:07,719
Speaker 1: particularly if anybody is creative or interesting in getting into creativity.

831
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,160
Speaker 1: This is a genuine blueprint for how anybody can be creative.

832
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 1: But the point that he makes here is I hope

833
00:36:15,760 --> 00:36:19,520
Speaker 1: indicative of what I'm talking about. It's focusing too much

834
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:24,040
Speaker 1: on something and not having fun destroys creativity, which means

835
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 1: that ironically, no matter how ambitious you are, you're not

836
00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 1: going to get anywhere.

837
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,759
Speaker 2: Because your gear is going to be shit. Here he

838
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 2: is talking about it.

839
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 8: When you're in your space time oasis, getting into the

840
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:39,439
Speaker 8: open mode, nothing will stop you being creative so effectively

841
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 8: as the fear of making a mistake. Now, if you

842
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 8: think about play, you'll see why to play is experiment.

843
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,959
Speaker 8: What happens if I do this? What would happen if.

844
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:52,359
Speaker 3: We did that?

845
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 4: What if?

846
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:58,880
Speaker 8: The very essence of playfulness is an openness to anything

847
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 8: that may happen, the feeling that whatever happens, it's okay.

848
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,240
Speaker 8: So you cannot be playful if you're frightened that moving

849
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:14,320
Speaker 8: in some direction will be wrong, something you shouldn't have done.

850
00:37:14,440 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 8: I mean, you're either free to play or you're not.

851
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:23,480
Speaker 8: As Alan Watts puts it, you can't be spontaneous within reason.

852
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 8: So you've got a risk saying things that are silly

853
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,399
Speaker 8: and illogical and wrong. And the best way to get

854
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 8: the confidence to do that is to know that while

855
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:39,920
Speaker 8: you're being creative, nothing is wrong. There's no such thing

856
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 8: as a mistake, and any drivel may lead to the breakthrough.

857
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:47,279
Speaker 3: So good, wise man.

858
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,719
Speaker 1: So good, And I think about you know what we

859
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:53,360
Speaker 1: do now? I know for the first few years that

860
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 1: we were doing this job woulds And I was just panicking,

861
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: so panicked about whether we were good enough to do this,

862
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:02,960
Speaker 1: whether or not we'd be able to cement ourselves here

863
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 1: because this was the ambition that meant we didn't make

864
00:38:05,560 --> 00:38:07,399
Speaker 1: great stuff because we weren't having fun.

865
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:10,880
Speaker 6: No, there was a feeling that we already needs to

866
00:38:10,880 --> 00:38:12,879
Speaker 6: come in here every single Monday, amulate, today's the day

867
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:14,680
Speaker 6: we're going to be pushed into an office.

868
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 4: We're going to be fired. Yeah, and that's gonna.

869
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 1: Be That's all we'd worry about. Yeah, and we couldn't

870
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:21,040
Speaker 1: have fun, which meant our gear was shit. And if

871
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,200
Speaker 1: I look back on the anecdote I told before about

872
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:25,960
Speaker 1: Dan to Booth, like, it's really tragic that Dan de

873
00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:28,120
Speaker 1: Booth came over onto our radio show, and I guarantee

874
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,680
Speaker 1: you the conversation I had with him would have been

875
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:35,200
Speaker 1: awful because I was thinking too much about extrinsic factors.

876
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: I was thinking too much about him, whether he was

877
00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,080
Speaker 1: better than me, would I be able to do his job?

878
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 1: And as a result, I wasn't able to play with

879
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 1: him and then just make fun stuff. So it's this

880
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:50,560
Speaker 1: great that's not talking about the toxicity of ambition is

881
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:53,640
Speaker 1: that not only does it put you in a situation

882
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 1: where you're thinking about things away from your circumstance so

883
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:05,839
Speaker 1: you can't be mindful, also totally poisons what you're doing

884
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 1: right now because what you're not what you're doing is

885
00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:10,279
Speaker 1: all of a sudden riddled.

886
00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 2: With the wrong purpose.

887
00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: It's to gain something, and there is nothing that he's

888
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:19,880
Speaker 1: less attractive on a person than somebody trying to gain something.

889
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 1: And after hearing that John Clice talk, I've realized that

890
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:25,839
Speaker 1: that's because there's no fun to be around, because they

891
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,080
Speaker 1: can't have fun because they're thinking about getting something out

892
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 1: of something.

893
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 6: Definitely, you miss such an opportunity as well, I think

894
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,719
Speaker 6: to just relate to someone or get around like you

895
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 6: can assume that someone in a position above you is

896
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:40,440
Speaker 6: like everything's rosy for them. Yes, everything's flowers for them,

897
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 6: which is bullshit. D When Dan over to Perth, yeah,

898
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:46,280
Speaker 6: he was probably feeling the pressure of hey, following Hamish

899
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:46,640
Speaker 6: and Andy.

900
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, way more pressure than.

901
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 6: The people going away with the hammer Shandy your ship,

902
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 6: which is just not fair.

903
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,120
Speaker 4: But you've got this guy dealing with that.

904
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,919
Speaker 6: But then people under him are looking up at him

905
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:00,960
Speaker 6: that when I have his position going, I'm with the

906
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:02,720
Speaker 6: people that are bringing you to Yeah, shocking.

907
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 2: You know.

908
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 6: I think I assume that because of the position someone

909
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 6: holds that everything's great for them, yes, you know, and

910
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 6: that we get jealous of that.

911
00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:10,880
Speaker 4: Yes, I want to take that away.

912
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 1: Yes.

913
00:40:12,080 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 5: Do you think there's a point where you like, you

914
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,440
Speaker 5: can reach a certain age or time in your career

915
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:20,680
Speaker 5: that you best look back at all of that stuff

916
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 5: and you can break that down for what.

917
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,920
Speaker 1: No, I actually, I actually don't. I think I look

918
00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,320
Speaker 1: at a lot of I look at someone like my dad,

919
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,759
Speaker 1: and I know that he One of the things that

920
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: I know a lot of men struggle with when they

921
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:36,479
Speaker 1: get to that age when they retire, is they don't

922
00:40:36,560 --> 00:40:40,200
Speaker 1: know anything else. I think we're lucky in our generation to,

923
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: like the three of us dudes at the age of thirty,

924
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: to be talking about this stuff. If our dads or

925
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,520
Speaker 1: our mums for that matter, were talking about this thirty

926
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:50,640
Speaker 1: years ago, that they wouldn't be they'd be talking. They'd

927
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:52,400
Speaker 1: be saying, well, but your career is everything. It's the

928
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,360
Speaker 1: most important thing in the world. I was talking to

929
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:56,719
Speaker 1: this woman who lives around the corner from me the

930
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,080
Speaker 1: other day. She's got two kids in year twelve, they're eighteen,

931
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 1: and I was telling her about how much or she

932
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: was telling me how much her kids are panicking about

933
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 1: year twelve and how much they care. Oh yeah, and

934
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,320
Speaker 1: they're so worried about how well they're going to do

935
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 1: and what union degree they get into and then as

936
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 1: a result, what job they're going to get and how

937
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,239
Speaker 1: they're going to make money. She's a composer, she's a

938
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: classical composer. She only started making music when she was thirty. Wow,

939
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: and she it's so funny. It's so different to my

940
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: parents in terms of like I was like, oh my god,

941
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: you have to do well at school so that you

942
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: can be successful because you're aunt. My ambition was everything.

943
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 1: And she was saying to her kids, don't fucking worry

944
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,040
Speaker 1: about it. Take your time, Like if you're loving it,

945
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:37,680
Speaker 1: if you're loving something, get around it.

946
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:38,480
Speaker 2: That's enjoyable.

947
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 1: But it is like everything in life. I don't think

948
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,000
Speaker 1: I don't think it's panacea. Like I don't think there's

949
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,279
Speaker 1: a cure for everything here. Like you kind of have

950
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:49,600
Speaker 1: to have a degree of ambition to succeed at anything.

951
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:52,920
Speaker 2: But I do think there's too much emphasis on.

952
00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,319
Speaker 3: Hey, real quick one for you, yeah before you wrap up.

953
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:55,560
Speaker 6: Yeah.

954
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:55,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

955
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,319
Speaker 5: We talked about our twenties a lot there. Yeah, and

956
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 5: how the ambitions that we had, ambitions right now that

957
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:06,359
Speaker 5: you think mid forties, Will Woody and Button push a Joel,

958
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,040
Speaker 5: We'll look back now to twenty twenty one and be

959
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 5: like oh, I can't believe I was wanting that. Then

960
00:42:12,120 --> 00:42:15,480
Speaker 5: that wasn't the big picture. What's what's the ambition? What's

961
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 5: the big picture?

962
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 2: Now? Wow, great question.

963
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:19,719
Speaker 3: Where do you see yourself in five years?

964
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,560
Speaker 4: Would you know? I had that question? I said it

965
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 4: an hour ago. I would dosef anywhere.

966
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:32,360
Speaker 6: Honestly, No, I was joking about that. But ambition right now, ambition, No,

967
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:37,839
Speaker 6: like I My ambition is to like I would say,

968
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 6: my ambition is to get most enjoyment out of the

969
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:41,919
Speaker 6: opportunity that I have right in front of me right now,

970
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 6: and that, like I'm we are all so so lucky

971
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,279
Speaker 6: that we get to make a show every five days

972
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,720
Speaker 6: a week, and so I would say my primary ambition

973
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 6: is to get the most out of that. Cho had

974
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:54,600
Speaker 6: a conversation with that executive producer ed, who oh, he's

975
00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:55,400
Speaker 6: given up on the podcast.

976
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:55,839
Speaker 4: He's left.

977
00:42:56,280 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 6: So I looked outside there, but I ha a conversation

978
00:42:58,120 --> 00:42:59,960
Speaker 6: with him, and I was like, I think I can

979
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:05,200
Speaker 6: get caught up in getting selfish about the show that's

980
00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:06,799
Speaker 6: going to go on in the afternoon. I'm like, I

981
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 6: just want to have fun for the two hours and

982
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,759
Speaker 6: soon as you can come and you're like, oh, there's

983
00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,319
Speaker 6: two interviews and a fucking other thing, and I didn't

984
00:43:14,320 --> 00:43:15,200
Speaker 6: get to have as much fun.

985
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 4: And then that's that's where I can get into it.

986
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 6: That's where my ambition gets in trouble, which is a

987
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 6: very short term ambition.

988
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:21,319
Speaker 3: Live in the now.

989
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,399
Speaker 6: But it's yeah, and it's just like, get the most

990
00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:25,560
Speaker 6: enjoyment out of the incredible opportunity you've got.

991
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 4: I think this, when's this podcast coming out next week?

992
00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 6: It actually doesn't matter, but we're going to be a

993
00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 6: celebrity Apprentice and where well, we can't say when it's filming.

994
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,800
Speaker 6: But the reason I'm so excited about that is because

995
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:40,040
Speaker 6: I know we're going to have so much fun doing that.

996
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:44,480
Speaker 6: And I think previously I've caught myself in this is

997
00:43:44,520 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 6: maybe two years ago, i'd caught myself in there are

998
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,239
Speaker 6: reality shows going up and down and it was like, oh,

999
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:53,520
Speaker 6: that sounds shit hours but G it'll be good for profile.

1000
00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:55,879
Speaker 4: G that'll be good for the radio show.

1001
00:43:56,680 --> 00:43:59,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I should do it because I'll put

1002
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:59,879
Speaker 6: my hand up for that.

1003
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 2: Cause it's good for this shit. It's good good for

1004
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:01,960
Speaker 2: the show.

1005
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:03,840
Speaker 6: And I'm so happy that none of them came to

1006
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:05,920
Speaker 6: Fruition because I know I wouldn't have enjoyed.

1007
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:07,959
Speaker 4: It just would have been a lot of hard work.

1008
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 6: But Selemity Apprentice with you is just going to be like,

1009
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 6: oh yeah, even if nothing comes of it, it's just

1010
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 6: like this is going to have a good time.

1011
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 4: Fun, you know. And that's such an important filter to

1012
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:18,520
Speaker 4: put on everything I reckon.

1013
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,400
Speaker 3: What about you, mate, rule the world, Sorcerer, Emperor.

1014
00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: Palpatine, star to the top, take everyone out with me,

1015
00:44:29,719 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 1: run a.

1016
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: Hell of a death star, wouldn't he.

1017
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm afraid that funnily enough that that I joke

1018
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:42,239
Speaker 1: about that, But that is one hundred percent the really

1019
00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:43,640
Speaker 1: scary thing for me about.

1020
00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 4: All the world.

1021
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,320
Speaker 1: No, no, no, but that's the really scary thing about for me.

1022
00:44:46,360 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 2: With ambition is easy. It does get away from me

1023
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:49,160
Speaker 2: sometimes and.

1024
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:51,400
Speaker 1: I'll find myself like I took a mental health a

1025
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago, I'll find myself like I think.

1026
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: The first thing I realized was like, I can't do

1027
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:57,440
Speaker 1: this podcast. I couldn't prepare for the podcast. Yeah, it

1028
00:44:57,520 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 1: was the first thing because it was just it was

1029
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 1: just the straw that broke the cable back. And that's

1030
00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 1: always the thing for me when my ambition gets too

1031
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 1: much and I get depressed. I have to rating things

1032
00:45:05,719 --> 00:45:08,560
Speaker 1: in and I have to just funnily enough, I drop everything.

1033
00:45:08,560 --> 00:45:09,719
Speaker 2: I just immediately drop everything.

1034
00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: I have to just go, Okay, I'm not working on

1035
00:45:11,480 --> 00:45:13,439
Speaker 1: anything that I can judge myself for. I can't see.

1036
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: I'm not going to allow myself a chance to succeed

1037
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: at everything. I just need to enjoy things. I need

1038
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 1: to settle back into enjoying things. And I think if

1039
00:45:19,800 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: anyone's listening to this and thinking themselves, I've got a

1040
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:23,520
Speaker 1: really issue with ambition, and they find it really hard

1041
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: to be themselves and all they're thinking about is where

1042
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: they're getting to and how they're getting there. I would

1043
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 1: really recommend listening to the Imperfect podcast again, No, I

1044
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 1: really would. There's a chat on there with a guy

1045
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:40,600
Speaker 1: called Ben Crow and he talks about reconfiguring or he

1046
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: talks about the difference between goal and purpose. So we've

1047
00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: been to ambitions for your goals, and he says, your

1048
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: purpose doesn't need to be related to your goals at all,

1049
00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 1: so you can still achieve your purpose every day without

1050
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 1: achieving a goal. And he talks about how to do that,

1051
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:54,759
Speaker 1: and it basically comes down to what John Cleese was

1052
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:57,400
Speaker 1: saying before, which is stepping into a place where you

1053
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: can have fun in what you're doing without the goal,

1054
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:02,440
Speaker 1: and that's really the best way to live the best life.

1055
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 6: I reckon are very good boys, great star fellas, great

1056
00:46:05,760 --> 00:46:08,839
Speaker 6: chat Follow your dreams everyone so the message, and chase

1057
00:46:08,840 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 6: them hard.

1058
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: Chase some hard, but occasionally realize when you're chasing too

1059
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:19,040
Speaker 1: hard it all down. Stop chasing and realize that you're

1060
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: going to follow your dream.

1061
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,880
Speaker 5: Anyway, and take a step back and smell the bloody roses,

1062
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 5: all the wine.

1063
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 4: Go and play in a sandpit, kunwar caps.

1064
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: Don't pay children to watch them play.

1065
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 5: Look out for old men hiding behind trees while you're

1066
00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 5: in the sandpit.

1067
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of messages on this, but don't

1068
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: listen to witches who give you ambition.