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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if children are having fun, they're going to be energized.

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Speaker 2: They're going to experience school as a creative opportunity. School

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Speaker 2: will just go so much better if kids are having fun.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: I love what technology can do. Hello, this is docor

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Speaker 2: Justin Coulson. I'm kind of here with my wife and.

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Speaker 3: A podcast partner, Kylie. This is Happy Families, except I'm

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Speaker 3: not really here, Kylie.

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Speaker 2: I am in Auckland about to fly to christ Church

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Speaker 2: so that I can help a whole lot of families

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Speaker 2: be happy. You're in our studio back at home on

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Speaker 2: the Sunshine Coast of Queensland. And technology means we can

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Speaker 2: keep the podcast going even though I'm not with you.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know the best thing about the fact that

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Speaker 4: you're not here right now?

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Speaker 3: No, you've got the whole bed to yourself.

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Speaker 4: No, but I may have a box of Haig's chocolate

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Speaker 4: right next.

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Speaker 2: Haigs still have not sponsored us, but we're going to

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Speaker 2: keep on talking about it because after my last shopping

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Speaker 2: trip there, I did stuck up, didn't I you're going to.

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Speaker 4: Have anyway I found the stack.

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Speaker 2: Well, let me just highlight that it is freezing. It

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Speaker 2: is freezing cold in New Zealand. I'm so glad we

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Speaker 2: live in Queensland. Last night I was at the diocesan

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Speaker 2: school for girls in Auckland and we had hundreds literally

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Speaker 2: like four or five hundred parents in attendance as we

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Speaker 2: talked about misconnection. And today I'm about to jump on

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Speaker 2: a flight and head to christ Church. I'll be speaking

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Speaker 2: at Saint Margaret's at christ Church.

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Speaker 4: Well, my suggestion is, if you think it was cold

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Speaker 4: last night, the.

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Speaker 2: Forecast for christ Church is horrible, top top teen today,

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Speaker 2: seven degrees.

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Speaker 3: What is that?

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Speaker 2: By the way, it's six degrees there right now. I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking forward to this at all. Now, just before

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Speaker 2: we talk about our topic today, choosing a school for

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Speaker 2: your child, I should mention I do travel and give

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Speaker 2: talks in schools all over the place about how families

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Speaker 2: can be happier and how kids can be resilient and

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Speaker 2: overcome their anxiety and their challenge and all that sort

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Speaker 2: of stuff. And I even do a whole lot of

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Speaker 2: professional development work with staff in schools as well. So

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Speaker 2: if you're a school teacher, or if you're a parent

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Speaker 2: who would love to have me at your school, please

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Speaker 2: make sure that you get in touch because I'd love

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Speaker 2: to come to you. Adelaide, Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane.

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Speaker 3: New Zealand, Tokyo. I'll go anywhere.

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Speaker 2: So if you've got a budget and if you'd love

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Speaker 2: to have me show up, I would love to be there.

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Speaker 2: We need to do this though, so that I can

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Speaker 2: get to the airport on time to catch my aeroplane. So, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: how do you choose a school for your child? We've

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Speaker 2: had a parent reach out to us and say, I'm

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Speaker 2: really stuck. I don't know what I'm supposed to do

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Speaker 2: about choosing a school for my child. It's really tricky,

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Speaker 2: and there are so many schools out there, and everyone

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Speaker 2: has an opinion. There are so many things that we

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Speaker 2: could say, let's do this efficiently to help people time

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Speaker 2: poor parents get answers now.

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Speaker 4: So I was talking to a friend the other day

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Speaker 4: and she is going through this exact dilemma right now.

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Speaker 4: Her child has already been to a school and they

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Speaker 4: had to leave because things weren't working out well.

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Speaker 3: There primary school, high school where a primary.

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Speaker 4: She has additional needs, significant additional needs. She's now in

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Speaker 4: another schoo second or third second, so second school. We're

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Speaker 4: into term three and you know, looking through all the

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Speaker 4: glossy magazines and information that you would read about a school,

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Speaker 4: the philosophy was just right up there with what she

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Speaker 4: was looking for. But what she has recognized after two

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Speaker 4: terms as the deliverables don't even come close to watch

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Speaker 4: she was promised.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so this is this is one of those issues

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Speaker 2: where schools put all the stuff in the panphlet on

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Speaker 2: the website and say here's how good we are, and

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Speaker 2: then you show up and you don't have your experience

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Speaker 2: doesn't match the expectations.

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Speaker 4: That's it exactly. But the big challenge for her is

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Speaker 4: if it was just academics, it would be a really

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Speaker 4: easy we need to find another school. This is not working.

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Speaker 4: For the first time, her daughter is eight. For the

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Speaker 4: very first time in her schooling journey, she has a friend.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's the.

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Speaker 4: First time that she's really connected with another girl. And

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Speaker 4: she's like, if I take her out of this setting,

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Speaker 4: then she.

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Speaker 2: Loses the one friend she had. Friend right, school is

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Speaker 2: not working, but she's got one friend, and now what

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Speaker 2: do I do?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And so do I choose the friend over the

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Speaker 4: education because my child needs friends?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, so important for their well being.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, we've been through this too many times

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Speaker 2: since we've moved to the coast. We've only been here

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Speaker 2: for two terms ourselves, but we said to the kids

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Speaker 2: pretty much, this is the school you're going to go to.

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Speaker 2: It's your call whether you want to leave it or not,

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Speaker 2: but we are never going to ask you to go

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Speaker 2: to another school. Because for the five years that we

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Speaker 2: were in Brisbane, our children went to four different schools.

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Speaker 2: We just couldn't find a school where they felt right,

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Speaker 2: where they felt good. And each time we moved, one

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Speaker 2: child would tend to go to a different school than

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Speaker 2: all the rest of them as they tried to find

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Speaker 2: their niche. And it is so so hard, and that's

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Speaker 2: because of one key thing.

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Speaker 4: The reality is you have to buy before you try.

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Speaker 4: You know, you read the glossy magazines, you attend, you

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Speaker 4: kind of go to an open day.

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Speaker 2: Sometimes, you know, sometimes you just send with the school

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Speaker 2: down theroad because that's all you can afford. But you're

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Speaker 2: still you're still buying before you're trying.

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Speaker 3: You just that's where they go and.

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Speaker 4: You really have no idea. You have no idea if

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Speaker 4: this is going to work.

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Speaker 2: And it's so strange because the things that we rely

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Speaker 2: on most when it comes to choosing a school are

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Speaker 2: what I call the three RS. And they're not writing, reading,

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Speaker 2: and arithmetic. They are instead reputation, results and resources. So

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Speaker 2: you look at the school, especially if you're in the

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Speaker 2: privileged position where you can pay for a private school,

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Speaker 2: you look at the school. But even then, if you're

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Speaker 2: going to go to a public school, you look at

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Speaker 2: the schools that are in the area and the catchment

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Speaker 2: that you're in, and you hope that they've got a

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Speaker 2: good reputation and that the results that they're getting for

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Speaker 2: their students are excellent, and you really really want them

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Speaker 2: to have fantastic resources, and.

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Speaker 3: So you pick the school that looks the best.

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Speaker 4: I agree with you to a certain extent. I think

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Speaker 4: about the times that we've done the moves that we've done,

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Speaker 4: and often it's been in the school holidays, so the

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Speaker 4: school hasn't even been open, but I've had to go

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Speaker 4: on the fact that it just feels nice being there.

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Speaker 2: Or you have a conversation with an admin staff member

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Speaker 2: or the person who gives you the school tour and

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Speaker 2: you say, oh, that was just so nice and it

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Speaker 2: felt good. But ultimately, what works for one child doesn't

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Speaker 2: work for another one.

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Speaker 4: No, And I think that's my other kind of take

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Speaker 4: home from all of our experiences. There is no one

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Speaker 4: size fits all. You have five children, you have three children,

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Speaker 4: you have two children. Just because it works for one

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Speaker 4: doesn't necessarily mean it's going to be a great fit

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Speaker 4: for the other one.

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Speaker 2: And just because your neighbor loves the school down the

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Speaker 2: road and their kids have all gone there and they've all.

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Speaker 4: Thrived and everyone they never had an issue, yeah.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't mean that your kids are going to go there

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Speaker 2: and have the same experience. It's just so challenging.

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Speaker 4: One of the schools that our kids went to, literally

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Speaker 4: we had hands down the best experience for one of

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Speaker 4: our children that we've ever experienced, and the other two

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Speaker 4: or three had a similar experience, wasn't as great, but

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Speaker 4: very good. And then one child was just it was

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Speaker 4: the worst, miserable, it was the worst move for her.

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Speaker 4: And the school actually acknowledged that. It just said, this

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Speaker 4: cohort of kids, this age group, and this specific mix

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Speaker 4: of kids is just not working. It's a hard year,

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Speaker 4: and that will happen from time to time, even if

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Speaker 4: a school is great.

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Speaker 2: So after the break, we're going to talk about how

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Speaker 2: we can make some progress towards making some useful decisions

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Speaker 2: when it comes to choosing the right school for your child.

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Speaker 3: If you've got a.

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Speaker 2: Teen, you're likely already worried about alcohol and drug use.

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Speaker 2: As a parent, you want to know how do we

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Speaker 2: protect them, how do we teach them? How do we

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Speaker 2: know if they're up to something? Pot Pills and parenting

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Speaker 2: will equip and empower you to help your twins and

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Speaker 2: teens navigate one of the most challenging adolescent issues today.

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Speaker 2: Available on the Happy Families webshop.

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Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, The podcast for a time

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Speaker 4: poor parent who just wants answers now and can I

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Speaker 4: is a tough one.

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Speaker 2: Can I just say how grateful I am for central heating.

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad that their conditioning works because it's cold.

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Speaker 3: In New Zealand right now.

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Speaker 2: I'm just saying so, Kylie I mentioned before my three hours.

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Speaker 2: I know that you push back against the little bit,

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Speaker 2: but the idea of reputation, results and resources are pretty

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Speaker 2: salient for a lot of parents. When they're choosing the school.

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Speaker 2: That's why we look at the websites. That's why we

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Speaker 2: look at the glossy materials. That's why we have school tours.

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Speaker 2: We're looking at what the resources are. We listen to

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Speaker 2: what people's thoughts are on the school.

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Speaker 3: What their experiences are.

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Speaker 2: That forms the reputation, and we hope they're getting good

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Speaker 2: results for the kids, because we don't want to send

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Speaker 2: our kids to a school where the results are lousy.

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Speaker 3: But I've got a couple of other.

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Speaker 2: Ideas that I think can be more helpful for some

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Speaker 2: parents some of the time. And they all start with

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Speaker 2: f well, actually they don't all start with it, but

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Speaker 2: they start with that sound yeah, fun, friends and philosophy.

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Speaker 2: So when it comes to school, more than anything, the

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Speaker 2: kids need to have good relationships. If they've got lousy relationships,

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Speaker 2: they're not going to want to go to school. We've

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Speaker 2: actually had some insight in the last week or so

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Speaker 2: as we've been dealing with the ongoing challenge of our

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Speaker 2: youngest daughter's school refusal, and it's occurred to us she

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Speaker 2: doesn't actually have friends. She literally when we said to her,

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Speaker 2: who would you like to have over on the weekend,

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Speaker 2: let's build some friendships.

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Speaker 3: And she was like, I don't have any friends.

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Speaker 2: I don't know who I can invite her. She's only eight,

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Speaker 2: and we're going, oh man, this is tricky. We need

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Speaker 2: to help this kid to get some friends. And when

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Speaker 2: kids have friends, they look forward to being at school

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Speaker 2: because they're going to spend the day in the company

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Speaker 2: of people. But they love being around friends is critically important.

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Speaker 2: Makes it really hard when you just moved to a

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Speaker 2: new area, makes it really hard when you've got a

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Speaker 2: child who is struggling in a school but they don't

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Speaker 2: have any friends at any of the.

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Speaker 3: Other schools anywhere else either.

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Speaker 2: But friends, the quality of the relationships that they share

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Speaker 2: with the people around them going to be a central

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Speaker 2: predictor in whether or not your child will enjoy being

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Speaker 2: at school and be happy.

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Speaker 3: To be there.

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Speaker 4: How does fun play into it?

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Speaker 2: Well, if children are having fun, they're going to be energized,

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Speaker 2: They're going to experience school as a creative opportunity. School

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Speaker 2: will just go so much better if kids are having fun.

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Speaker 2: So we need friends, we need fun. They go hand

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Speaker 2: in hand quite often as well. And the third one

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Speaker 2: is philosophy, and this is a tricky one. Because schools

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Speaker 2: will have their mission statements or they'll have their values

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is warpaper all over their website and

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Speaker 2: not all over the walls when you show up with

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Speaker 2: the school. But as you shared your friend's situation, sometimes

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Speaker 2: the school doesn't live what it preaches.

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Speaker 3: What it doesn't live its values.

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Speaker 2: We had the same experience with one school in Brisbane,

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Speaker 2: that school experience that we had for nine months at

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Speaker 2: one of those independent kind of schools down in the

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Speaker 2: Carbrook Cornibre area.

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Speaker 3: But I won't mentioned the school. It was horrendous.

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Speaker 2: It was the worst experience and they just didn't live

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Speaker 2: their values. So did I sound like I was a

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Speaker 2: little bit jaded? Then I shouldn't have done that. So fun,

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Speaker 2: friends and philosophy are critically important, but I think that

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Speaker 2: we need to be looking for other things to help

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Speaker 2: our children to get through their schooling as well. And

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Speaker 2: the three things that I want to add. First off,

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Speaker 2: our kids need stability. We watched this happen as we

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Speaker 2: moved our children from one school to the next, to

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Speaker 2: the next to the next in Brisbane. It really affected them,

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Speaker 2: didn't it. Like people say, oh, kids are resilient, they'll

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Speaker 2: be right, But sometimes they're not. It was a really

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Speaker 2: hard experience.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I really hate that line that kids are resilient.

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Speaker 4: It's like, how much do we put our kids through

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Speaker 4: to test whether or not they are or not? Like

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Speaker 4: if you don't need to, why would you.

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Speaker 2: Well, life will already throw enough vulnerability and randomness at you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, and you don't find out how resilient you

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Speaker 2: are until you have to go through hard things. But

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Speaker 2: we don't need to put developmentally inappropriate challenges on top

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Speaker 2: of them when they're already dealing with so much. The

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Speaker 2: second thing, other than stability, I mean, encouraging stability is huge,

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Speaker 2: but then you're balancing the fact that your child's not

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Speaker 2: thriving the fact that you want them to be stable.

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Speaker 2: But if they're not thriving where they are, you kind

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Speaker 2: of go through this horrible thing where you try to juggle.

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Speaker 2: I've mentioned this already, but I'm going to highlight it again.

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Speaker 2: The quality of the relationships that you kids have has

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Speaker 2: to be central. If they're not making friends, if they

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Speaker 2: don't have anyone that they can rely on, I think

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Speaker 2: that we've got to at least consider moving them. But

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Speaker 2: before we do that, we've got to also ask ourselves

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Speaker 2: and maybe ask the teachers, is there anything going on

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Speaker 2: with my child? Does my child lack anything socially? Is

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Speaker 2: my child getting stuff wrong? Because if there's something inherent

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Speaker 2: in the child and they have to mature some more,

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Speaker 2: they've got to figure out relationship, it's a bit better.

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Speaker 2: No matter where you put them, they'll continue the same

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Speaker 2: habits and patterns unless they find a very very compassionate,

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Speaker 2: very kind friendship group at their new school. The same

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Speaker 2: challenges they're having at school X will follow them to

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Speaker 2: school Y.

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Speaker 3: Not because of.

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Speaker 2: Social media, not because of the inherent horribleness of kids,

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Speaker 2: but rather because our child just hasn't grown up enough.

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Speaker 2: But relationships are critical. I think the last thing, though,

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Speaker 2: is trust. Trust means that you believe that the people

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Speaker 2: around you are going to act in your best interests.

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Speaker 2: And most of the time, if your child struggling at school,

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Speaker 2: they're going to have trust issues. They're not going to

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Speaker 2: believe that the teacher, or their peers or whoever, even

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Speaker 2: as us parents, are acting in their best interests. So

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Speaker 2: we need to help them to find an environment where

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Speaker 2: they feel like we're they're to act and the people

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Speaker 2: around them are there to act in their best interests.

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Speaker 4: It's interesting. We've obviously done a lot of moves over

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Speaker 4: the years, and some of those have been significant moves,

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Speaker 4: and so as a result, our children have had to

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Speaker 4: change schools because of those moves. I wonder what would

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Speaker 4: have happened had we have just stayed in one place,

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Speaker 4: whether or not, you know, they would have gone through

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Speaker 4: their schooling journey at the same school with the same friends.

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Speaker 2: Would the stability have actually would it have all evened

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Speaker 2: out in the end?

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I think that's where I'm kind of going

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Speaker 4: with that. I think that, like that school acknowledged for

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Speaker 4: us that one time where there was just there was

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Speaker 4: just a crazy cohort, a mix of kids that didn't

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Speaker 4: work particularly well. Our kids are going to go through

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Speaker 4: seasons where things aren't great. But as long as it's

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Speaker 4: not the norm, as long as it's not that every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so long as long as the environment isn't consistently

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Speaker 2: toxic is what you're saying.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Yeah, then the reality is it's just the ebbs

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Speaker 4: and flows of life in general, and if we can

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Speaker 4: help our kids work through that, that'll actually be Okay.

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Speaker 2: Something else just popped into my mind as you were

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Speaker 2: saying that school is an invention like we've just we've

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Speaker 2: created in the last couple of hundred years. Schools have

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Speaker 2: been around for a few thousand years in one form

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Speaker 2: or another, but universal schooling for all ChIL dren this

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Speaker 2: concept of schooling is it's a modern invention, and it's

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Speaker 2: not surprising that the system doesn't work for everyone. It's

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Speaker 2: not surprising that we've got different philosophies and different ways

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Speaker 2: of doing things. And when I look at all of

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Speaker 2: our chops and changes, I wish that our kids would

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Speaker 2: have had the stability that I think is so important.

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Speaker 2: But I also think that changing their schools has ultimately

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Speaker 2: given them every chance at success. If we'd left them

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Speaker 2: where they were, where they were wallowing in the miyes

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Speaker 2: of mediocrity, where they were struggling with friends, where they

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Speaker 2: were coming home crying, where they were saying I don't

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Speaker 2: want to go to school, things wouldn't have been any better.

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Speaker 2: I think changing has been the right thing to do

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Speaker 2: in our case, But I don't think there's an easy answer.

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Speaker 4: No, I don't think so either. I think on our end,

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Speaker 4: having had conversations with the kids at different stages, for me,

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Speaker 4: they feel like they were heard when things were tough

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Speaker 4: and they were struggling, they felt that there that they

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Speaker 4: were hurt, they were seeing heard and valued particularly, and

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Speaker 4: that they had some say. They actually had some say

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Speaker 4: in what their future looked like.

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Speaker 3: Bingo. I love that.

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Speaker 2: We hope that those who are struggling with the question

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Speaker 2: of choosing a school for their child, whether it's the

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Speaker 2: first school or the fifth school, found some help in

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Speaker 2: what we shared. I need to pack up, go out

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Speaker 2: of the cold and catch a plane at christ Church. Honey,

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Speaker 2: I'll see you in a day and a half when

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Speaker 2: I get back from enz and fly back across the ditch.

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Speaker 4: Kiora, I might save You're a chocolate.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast Did I Do That Wrong? Is

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Speaker 2: produced by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is

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Speaker 2: our executive producer. I feel so sheepish, now see what

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Speaker 2: I did? I'm in New Zealand, sheepish ah. If you'd

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Speaker 2: like more information about making your family happier, please join

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Speaker 2: us on our Facebook page at doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families.

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Speaker 3: I'll visit happy families dot com dot a unit