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Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics

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Speaker 1: used by the world's most successful people to get so

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Speaker 1: much out of their day.

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Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba.

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Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium,

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Speaker 1: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work date.

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Speaker 1: I am on a little break from How I Work

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Speaker 1: for a few weeks, and so I'm using this time

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Speaker 1: to share some of my favorite interviews that I've conducted

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Speaker 1: over the last two and a half years of doing

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Speaker 1: this podcast.

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Speaker 2: So I'm very excited to share with.

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Speaker 1: You my chat with cyantaid Si is a good friend

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Speaker 1: of mine and is also one of Australia's most successful entrepreneurs,

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Speaker 1: having co founded Invato in two thousand and six and

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Speaker 1: growing it to being valued at over one billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: More recently, she tried her hand at chocolate because why not,

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Speaker 1: and hey, Tiger is now one of Australia's fastest growing

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Speaker 1: purpose driven brands, and you know, spare time. She recently

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Speaker 1: launched Milkshake, which allows users to make a free website

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Speaker 1: for their Instagram profile or on their phone instantly. So

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Speaker 1: this interview was actually conducted in front of a live

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Speaker 1: audience in Melbourne, and SI just shares so generously about

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Speaker 1: how she works and some of the really big challenges

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Speaker 1: that she's overcome in her life as an entrepreneur.

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Speaker 2: And before I head to SI, I.

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Speaker 1: Would also just want to say thank you to everyone

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Speaker 1: that has left a review for how I work.

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Speaker 3: It is super generous of you.

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Speaker 1: If you are enjoying how I work and have a

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Speaker 1: left review, I would be so grateful if you did so.

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Speaker 2: It's just really truly.

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Speaker 1: Wonderful getting feedback from listeners that really brings a huge

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Speaker 1: smile to my face. So thank you if you've done that,

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Speaker 1: and thank you if you plan to do that today.

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Speaker 1: So let's head on over to SI to hear about

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Speaker 1: how she works.

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Speaker 2: SOI welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me, Amantha.

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Speaker 2: Where I do want to start is not where i'd

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Speaker 2: plan to start.

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Speaker 1: But before we were about to kick on and get started,

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Speaker 1: you told me that you'd like recently dramatically cut down

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Speaker 1: the amount of time that you're spending on your phone.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell me like what you were spending and

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Speaker 1: what you're now spending.

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Speaker 3: So I was.

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Speaker 4: Probably spending about four hours a day and it was

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Speaker 4: getting to the point where it was a little bit manic.

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Speaker 4: I do have a tendency towards intensity, surprisingly enough, and

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Speaker 4: I found that I was just constantly, you know, checking email, Shopify, Instagram,

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Speaker 4: what else, like a whole range of different sort of

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Speaker 4: different apps and pieces of data which I wasn't actually

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Speaker 4: getting a huge amount out of.

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Speaker 3: And it was becoming quite a destructive habit.

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Speaker 4: And one of the things that you should know is

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Speaker 4: that Amantha and I are actually part of a peer

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Speaker 4: mentoring group together, and so I've known each other for

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Speaker 4: quite some time.

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Speaker 3: And one day Amantha's mother came in and she.

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Speaker 4: Is a clinical psychologist, is that correct, And one of

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Speaker 4: her areas of speciality is hypnotism. I'd never been hypnotized before.

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Speaker 4: I am a control freak, so out of everyone in

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Speaker 4: the room, I was exceptionally uncomfortable with this and actually said.

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Speaker 3: I'm very uncomfortable, but I'm going to try anyway, because

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Speaker 3: she was so lovely.

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Speaker 4: And I trust and trust her, and she was Amantha's mum,

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Speaker 4: and it was the it was really intense. I found

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Speaker 4: that just after being hypnotized for five minutes, I went

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Speaker 4: away and I went all the way to work afterwards,

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Speaker 4: I didn't pick up my phone once, and I was

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Speaker 4: in really in the present moment, and I realized I

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Speaker 4: think I'd been veering a little bit too much towards

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Speaker 4: kind of.

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Speaker 2: Fight or flight.

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Speaker 3: Adrenaline filled.

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Speaker 4: That way of being, and I thought, Okay, it'll be

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Speaker 4: interesting experiment. I tend to like to experiment on myself

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Speaker 4: a little bit in harmless ways, but you know.

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Speaker 3: To see what to see what effect things will have.

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Speaker 4: And I thought, well, if I minimize my phone used

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Speaker 4: for a little while, what effect is that going to

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Speaker 4: have on me? And I've probably gone down to an

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Speaker 4: average of about fifteen minutes a day.

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Speaker 1: Fifteen minutes that that is nothing like out of interest?

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Speaker 2: What is consuming that fifteen minutes phone calls?

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Speaker 3: Honestly?

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Speaker 2: Wow, So just overnight you just do you know, I

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Speaker 2: scaled down.

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Speaker 4: I mean, that experience with your mum was so intense

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Speaker 4: that I you know, and I have to say, you know, prior,

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Speaker 4: as you know, I was quite not critical of hypnotism,

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Speaker 4: but I didn't understand it. And I haven't been hypnotized since.

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Speaker 3: So this was this one experience that I'm drawing on.

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Speaker 2: But I was just like, wow, this was really intense.

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Speaker 4: But the difference in me made me realize that I

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Speaker 4: clearly was not present enough prior to this. So really

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Speaker 4: it's kind of more about being, you know, trying to

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Speaker 4: be in the present moment, I think, which is important

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Speaker 4: for me. I tend to look ahead all the time.

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Speaker 1: And did you change anything on your phone to make

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Speaker 1: it less addictive?

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Speaker 4: I tend to take apps off my phone, so I've

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Speaker 4: you know, I'll wait until I'm on Wi Fi before

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Speaker 4: I kind of, you know, load something back on again.

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Speaker 3: But I will take.

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Speaker 4: Off quite a few of the different apps that I

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Speaker 4: have and then load them back on when I actually

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Speaker 4: need them, as opposed to having them all the time,

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Speaker 4: because if they're there, I will check them compulsively.

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Speaker 2: That that's a great trick.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I've heard people do a slightly less extreme

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Speaker 1: where they log themselves out of say social media apps,

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Speaker 1: for example, but you'll actually delete them.

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Speaker 2: I delete it, but I don't.

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Speaker 4: I really need to do it to the most extreme

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Speaker 4: because if I'm just not logged in Holy.

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Speaker 2: Life, ah just think it's easy.

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Speaker 4: I need to kind of train myself out of it.

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Speaker 4: And I think, you know, it's all about habit as you.

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Speaker 1: Know, fantastic and so what are you now doing with

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Speaker 1: the three hours and forty five minutes that you're no

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Speaker 1: longer consumed on your phone.

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Speaker 4: So for a long time, I've been aware that when

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Speaker 4: I'm constantly surrounded by input, when I'm constantly consuming.

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Speaker 3: Output, becomes a lot more difficult for me.

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Speaker 4: I'm aware that I need to have plenty of time

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Speaker 4: for output in order to do good work. So when

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Speaker 4: I'm doing good, useful work, it's actually quite creative, and

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Speaker 4: that means I need time and I need space. So honestly,

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Speaker 4: I think, just you know, it's things like on the

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Speaker 4: way in, not staring at my email and my phone

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Speaker 4: the whole time, but instead looking around me.

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Speaker 3: It's really really simple things.

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Speaker 4: The interesting thing is is that I find that I'm

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Speaker 4: more effective because I'm giving my brain time to figure

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Speaker 4: things out.

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Speaker 3: Whereas if I'm constantly looking at.

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Speaker 4: And kind of external noise, I'm not nearly as effective

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Speaker 4: in that way.

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Speaker 2: That's interesting.

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Speaker 1: It reminds me of something that that the previous guests

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Speaker 1: said to me, who were actually just talking about before.

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Speaker 1: Professor Adam Alter, who studied digital addiction, and he did

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Speaker 1: this experiment where he gets a lot of ideas for

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Speaker 1: research studies for example, that he wants to conduct and

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Speaker 1: books that he wants to write, and in his notebook

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Speaker 1: he writes his ideas, and any idea that comes when

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Speaker 1: he's in a state of boredom, let's say, so, not.

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Speaker 2: Consuming stimulus, he asterixes them. And what he found when.

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Speaker 1: You look back at it is all the ideas that

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Speaker 1: came to him in a state of not consuming stimulus he.

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Speaker 2: Thought were far better, which is really interesting.

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Speaker 3: So it's really.

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Speaker 1: About just being present and not sort of constantly in

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Speaker 1: putting stimulus into your brain.

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Speaker 4: I think so, And I think that my tendency, you know,

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Speaker 4: I tend to be very focused on results, and I

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Speaker 4: think that sometimes I get into the habit of thinking

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Speaker 4: that I need to be like a machine.

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Speaker 3: So in tech.

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Speaker 4: There's quite a bit of you know stuff about you know, biohacking,

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Speaker 4: and I am going to document every single moment of

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Speaker 4: the day and what I spend it on to see

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Speaker 4: if I'm spending it on the optimum amount, you know,

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Speaker 4: the optimum things.

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Speaker 3: And it's really intense, and.

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Speaker 4: It's not very nurturing, to be totally honest, it's not

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Speaker 4: nurturing at all.

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Speaker 3: And I think for a long time.

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Speaker 4: I really veered that way, I'm going to become as

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Speaker 4: efficient as possible and as effective as possible. And again,

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Speaker 4: I do want to be efficient and effective, but I

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Speaker 4: don't think it's also about the process.

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Speaker 3: It's also about enjoying and.

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Speaker 4: Being present in the process of what you do, and

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Speaker 4: so reading things like you know, there's a book I'm

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Speaker 4: reading at the moment which is called Daily Rituals, and

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Speaker 4: it's basically the rituals of incredible writers, composers, artists, and

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Speaker 4: they're talking about how they spend their day. So basically

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Speaker 4: their day is documented out and a consistency amongst them

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Speaker 4: is that there's a lot of time. There's a lot

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Speaker 4: of time where maybe you know, they're not you know,

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Speaker 4: it's not output, it's just being still and letting themselves process.

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Speaker 4: And I think that you know anything that you're doing

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Speaker 4: which is really hard, and startups are really hard, very entire,

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Speaker 4: very tiring, very mentally taxing. And that's not just true

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Speaker 4: of me, that's true of anyone that works in a startup.

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Speaker 4: It's exhausting and you need time, time to process and

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Speaker 4: time to time to let the good things come out

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Speaker 4: because it is about being creative.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting book that one, and I want

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Speaker 1: to know in your life, what rituals do you have

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Speaker 1: that you found serve you well, whether they be daily, weekly, fortnightly,

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Speaker 1: what does that look like for you?

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Speaker 4: I think the so in terms of yearly ritual, my

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Speaker 4: family and I we play a game. My husband and

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Speaker 4: I started doing it when we first got marri years ago,

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Speaker 4: and it was this is the year that on New

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Speaker 4: Year's Day. So I personally hate New Year's Eve. I

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Speaker 4: think there's too much pressure. I'd write, go a bit

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Speaker 4: early and then wake up early, you know, the following

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Speaker 4: day on Year's Day, and go, Okay, what's this new

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Speaker 4: year going to be? So we set up this tradition,

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Speaker 4: which is this is the year that where we just

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Speaker 4: pingpong back and forth and talk about all the things

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Speaker 4: that happened in the past year, and then we switch

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Speaker 4: to all the things that we want for the new year,

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Speaker 4: and then we write them down. And it's not, well,

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Speaker 4: I should, that doesn't work for me. I should has

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Speaker 4: never worked for me. I want is really effective for me.

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Speaker 4: And so that time for kind of it's a great

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Speaker 4: time in terms of blue sky.

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Speaker 3: Thinking to go all right, you know, if everything's on.

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Speaker 4: The table, what is it that I actually want for

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Speaker 4: this coming year, what is interesting to me so that

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Speaker 4: I always really enjoy.

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Speaker 3: And then probably every quarter I try.

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Speaker 4: And reflect on those things and you know, are they relevant,

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Speaker 4: are they still relevant?

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Speaker 3: Are they still exciting? How far can I come? But

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Speaker 3: again not.

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Speaker 4: About have I succeeded or failed, because in the past.

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Speaker 3: My self talk has been quite very critical.

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Speaker 4: I think most people who are high achieving start out

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Speaker 4: with their self.

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Speaker 3: Talk being very critical.

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Speaker 4: But you know, what is it that's kind of you know,

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Speaker 4: what's exciting, what's interesting?

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Speaker 3: If I want to live a big life, what is

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Speaker 3: it that I'm going to be doing again?

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Speaker 4: I you know, probably every morning I read either you know,

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Speaker 4: something like Daily Rituals just one or you know, Tribe

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Speaker 4: of Mentors just one chapter, and I just try and like,

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Speaker 4: let let my day be a reflection of anything that

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Speaker 4: resonated with me during during that during that reading session,

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Speaker 4: and generally it's like five minutes. It's really not a

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Speaker 4: long time. And I think the only other thing is

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Speaker 4: ensuring again that I have time to be still and

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Speaker 4: to really think and not just be running from one

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Speaker 4: thing to the next, and that requires constant readjustment. I'm

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Speaker 4: constantly going, oh, I've pushed.

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Speaker 3: It too far.

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Speaker 4: I don't have any time because it is very easy

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Speaker 4: for me to completely.

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Speaker 3: Fill my time up and take it back to Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: where am.

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Speaker 4: I personally providing value? What value do I provide in

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Speaker 4: this equation to my team, to this business and other

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Speaker 4: than that, I'm going to get my nose out of

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Speaker 4: it and let the very competent people that I work

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Speaker 4: with do what they're doing. And the book Essentialism was

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Speaker 4: very helpful with that.

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Speaker 2: Such a good book. How do you catch yourself?

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Speaker 1: Like when when you have kind of gone too far

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Speaker 1: and in one direction? If you like, like, do you

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Speaker 1: have something that you do regularly to kind of go

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Speaker 1: where am I at?

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Speaker 2: Or is it just a feeling that you get?

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Speaker 4: I tend it really is about a feeling that I get.

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Speaker 4: So I know that if if I'm going into meetings

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Speaker 4: and I'm not mentally prepared, I haven't thought through what

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Speaker 4: is that you know I need to be getting out

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Speaker 4: of them? If I feel rushed, then those are generally,

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Speaker 4: you know, good signals to me that I need to

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Speaker 4: pull back and have a look and consider. And I

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Speaker 4: think also, you know, being aware, I've become a lot

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Speaker 4: more aware like things like this. You know, I'm actually

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Speaker 4: I'm an introvert who presents as an extrovert. It's it's

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Speaker 4: gonna be one of those things that I'm going, Okay,

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Speaker 4: I'm gonna need to, you know, pull back and be.

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Speaker 3: A little bit quieter for the rest of the day

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Speaker 3: after this, that's okay, like getting to know myself better.

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Speaker 4: Whereas if it's a series of internal meetings, I can

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Speaker 4: do that all day, no problem.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, wow, how how do you function?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: As I can completely relate to that, by the way,

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Speaker 1: like an introvert kind of trying to do extroverted things

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Speaker 1: during the.

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Speaker 2: Day, How how does that work for you?

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Speaker 4: Like?

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Speaker 1: How how I guess, like, particularly, do you structure a

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Speaker 1: day even if you know that there is going to be,

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Speaker 1: you know, something like this, which is very public and

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Speaker 1: can be quite tiring for an introvert.

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Speaker 2: How have you thought about today? For example?

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Speaker 4: I think that for me, what makes sense is taking

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Speaker 4: the pressure off and going, Okay, I'm going to go

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Speaker 4: in here and I'm just going to try and be useful.

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Speaker 3: So my only.

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Speaker 4: Job is to try and say something in this hour

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Speaker 4: or whoever long we've got that You go, oh, that

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Speaker 4: was helpful, great, that was nice to hear. Oh, that

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Speaker 4: helped me do my thing, whatever it might be. Otherwise,

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Speaker 4: if I try and set myself up in my mind

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Speaker 4: as trying to achieve these ten different purposes and trying

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Speaker 4: to spook whatever it is that I'm doing at the moment,

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Speaker 4: it's too stressful for me and it doesn't feel honest anyway.

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Speaker 4: So I think there's that taking the pressure off myself.

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Speaker 4: But also I think just knowing, all right, if I

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Speaker 4: need to, I can head home after this, that's okay.

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Speaker 3: I can head home and work from home, and that's okay.

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Speaker 4: It's one of the reasons why you know, I implement

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Speaker 4: flex work wherever I can in my businesses because I

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Speaker 4: know that sometimes I need to go home and you know,

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Speaker 4: hibernate a little bit, and that's you know, that's okay.

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Speaker 3: We're human.

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Speaker 2: That's awesome.

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Speaker 1: I like what you're doing in the morning in terms

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Speaker 1: of just getting that five minutes to read. Can you

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Speaker 1: think of like an example of something that like you

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Speaker 1: have taken from your morning reading and how that played

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Speaker 1: out during the day, or how you kind of reflected

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Speaker 1: on that during the day.

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Speaker 4: Recently, in Tribe of Mentors, I cannot remember his name, unfortunately,

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Speaker 4: but he is an incredible chef, and he was talking

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Speaker 4: about trying to divide up his day into all his

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Speaker 4: time into a third for his work, a third for himself,

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Speaker 4: and a third for his family.

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Speaker 3: I don't manage to do that at all.

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Speaker 4: So that was fascinating to me to look at somebody

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Speaker 4: who's one of the most successful chefs in the world

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Speaker 4: and say he has managed to achieve that, and he

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Speaker 4: spends a third of his time for himself.

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Speaker 3: What does that actually look like?

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Speaker 4: And consider you know, I've had people multiple times say

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Speaker 4: to me, so, what do you your hobbies?

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Speaker 3: And I said, I don't really have a hobby.

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Speaker 4: I I you know, I work, and I love my work,

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Speaker 4: and I love the people that I work with. And

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Speaker 4: then I, you know, spend time with my kids and

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Speaker 4: my husband, and those are the things that I do.

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Speaker 4: And I'm actually deeply boring. So even to consider I.

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Speaker 3: Am I like, totally honestly, to even consider what would

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Speaker 3: it look like if.

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Speaker 4: I spent a third of my time for me what

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Speaker 4: would I do? Is an interesting mental exercise. So I

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Speaker 4: feel like I'm constantly kind of I think one of

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Speaker 4: the things about being an entrepreneur and having a startup

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Speaker 4: is that you you kind of you develop very very quickly,

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Speaker 4: and it you know, self development is very very important

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Speaker 4: because it's very challenging.

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Speaker 2: So what do you what else do you.

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Speaker 1: Do to to I guess constantly be learning and developing yourself.

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Speaker 4: I think that I just I try and surround myself

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Speaker 4: with people that I can learn from. Quite honestly, I

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Speaker 4: find that you know, if you if you say to me,

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Speaker 4: okase I read a book about how to run effective meetings,

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Speaker 4: I'll go, oh my goodness. I just I can't internalize it.

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Speaker 4: Whereas if I'm inspired by.

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Speaker 3: Somebody who runs really effective meetings, oh go great. I

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Speaker 3: just want to model you.

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Speaker 4: I'm very good at modeling, not very good at kind

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Speaker 4: of pulling things from written material. So you know, I generally, like,

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Speaker 4: you know, one of those things that I'll surround myself,

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Speaker 4: including the people that work with me, with people that

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Speaker 4: I feel like I can learn from you.

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Speaker 3: I just want to be around you. I want to

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Speaker 3: watch you.

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Speaker 4: It's the same with my personal trainer, it's the same

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Speaker 4: with like, I'm constantly intuitively.

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Speaker 3: Looking for people that I can learn from. And that's

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Speaker 3: what that's what works for me.

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Speaker 1: Is that something that you're looking foreign in recruitment because

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Speaker 1: Vado's got like three four hundred people six hundred now,

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Speaker 1: six hundred now, oh my goodness.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you're obviously growing to other businesses, and I

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Speaker 1: imagine you must have interviewed like hundreds thousands of people.

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Speaker 4: Yes, I'd say probably more to the hundreds. To the hundreds,

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Speaker 4: I'm guessing, but yeah, you know, solid hundreds.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, because I imagine like part of that is,

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Speaker 1: you know, can you learn from this person? But I'm curious,

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Speaker 1: do you like that in that time that is a

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Speaker 1: huge amount of experience. Do you have go to questions

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Speaker 1: things that you're looking for to identify if someone is

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Speaker 1: going to be like someone that you can learn from

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Speaker 1: or someone that's going to be great in the business.

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Speaker 4: Look, generally speaking, you know, I actually try and source people,

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Speaker 4: find people who aren't looking for a job, people who

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Speaker 4: I see who are doing an incredible job at what

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Speaker 4: they're doing, and often probably a bit you know, like

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Speaker 4: just and the thing I know about them is that

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Speaker 4: they're going to do something incredible and that there there's

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Speaker 4: just they're just waiting for the space to do that.

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Speaker 4: And then I slowly convince them I slowly convince them

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Speaker 4: that they should leave what they're doing and they should

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Speaker 4: come and work with me instead. And I'm honestly like

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Speaker 4: I do it. Sometimes I do it really quickly. So

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Speaker 4: sometimes I'll just sit down and have lunch with you

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Speaker 4: and go, you know what, you should leave what you're

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Speaker 4: doing and you.

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Speaker 3: Should just come and work with me.

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Speaker 4: And then if they say, and then if they're considering it,

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Speaker 4: we have a serious conversation.

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Speaker 3: And if they're not, I'll go, yep, it'd be really good.

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Speaker 3: And then I just start like gently.

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Speaker 4: Like introducing it like as a joke, but not as

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Speaker 4: a joke until it infects their minds.

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Speaker 3: And then I've been I've got a pretty good success

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Speaker 3: right with it.

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Speaker 4: And I think my goal is to get people who,

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Speaker 4: you know, all they need is the space.

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Speaker 3: And the permission to do amazing work.

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Speaker 2: How do you find those people? Like, how do you know?

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Speaker 2: Because this is where I struggle with the idea of

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Speaker 2: you know, essentially what we're talking about is poaching. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: what it is so like because I've tried this for

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Speaker 2: inventium and it's and.

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Speaker 1: I find it really hard because often I'm looking at

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Speaker 1: someone on paper or I'm you know, maybe like reading

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Speaker 1: about them in I don't know, different sources, and it's

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Speaker 1: just like that can often be quite different from who

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Speaker 1: the person is, So how are you identifying them in

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Speaker 1: the first place? Who you're going to invest time in,

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Speaker 1: you know, wining and dining.

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Speaker 3: I think people who are really just really passionate and

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Speaker 3: obsessive about what they do. And oftentimes I think.

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Speaker 4: Where I can add value is because I've never been

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Speaker 4: hugely confident. I've always been on shore of my capacity.

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Speaker 4: Oftentimes I think that where I can add value is

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Speaker 4: just giving them permission to proceed. So it's hard for

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Speaker 4: me to explain because I think, honestly, it's one of

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Speaker 4: those things.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot of things.

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Speaker 4: I'm not strong at, but I'm really good at reading

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Speaker 4: people and I you know, and I'm good at figuring

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Speaker 4: out if a person is genuinely passionate, really cares ambitious,

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Speaker 4: and there's a there's a sort of you know, there's

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Speaker 4: a craftsmanship or a crafts personship. I've never known how

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Speaker 4: to gender neutralize that term, but there's a craftsmanship that

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Speaker 4: comes through my dad always said to me, you know,

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Speaker 4: you can be the best in the biers of cleaning toilets,

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Speaker 4: it's about the it's about the process, and it's about

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Speaker 4: the passion. It's about being proud of doing a job

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Speaker 4: well done. And there've been people that I've spied at,

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Speaker 4: you know, the cafe that I went to every day,

439
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Speaker 4: and when you know what, and I'm pointing out him,

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Speaker 4: this dude's a gun and he's gonna work for me

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Speaker 4: one day and I don't know how, but it is.

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Speaker 3: And then they do.

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Speaker 4: Says with Eric, so you know, it's it's it's one

444
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,520
Speaker 4: of those things that I it's a it's a horrible answer,

445
00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 4: and I'm sorry, but you know, sometimes you just you

446
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,920
Speaker 4: just know, you just know it about people.

447
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:14,439
Speaker 3: You just see the way they are and you go.

448
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 4: I know you're gonna you're gonna give whatever it is

449
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:18,840
Speaker 4: your best and I and I want to work with

450
00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 4: you for that reason.

451
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,479
Speaker 1: I love that you're finding people in cafes well jer

452
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,280
Speaker 1: wand lately, but still like I feel like there's something

453
00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 1: really interesting in that because I think that the average

454
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 1: I think about the average recruiter and they're like, Okay,

455
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,040
Speaker 1: I've got this job to fill, so I'm going to

456
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 1: look at people that are doing the exact same job

457
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 1: because they're the only person that are going to be

458
00:22:40,240 --> 00:22:42,240
Speaker 1: good at the job because they've done the job before.

459
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,520
Speaker 2: And I love how laterally.

460
00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,399
Speaker 1: You're you're looking for people that I think would be great.

461
00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 4: Passion will outweigh experience any day, and I think, you

462
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,080
Speaker 4: know people who are incredibly passionate and they're smart. I

463
00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 4: think because that's how I went into Invato, literally no

464
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 4: idea what I was doing, but I decided, oh, we're

465
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 4: just going to figure it out. Me and my co

466
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 4: founders were like, we will literally just figure this out.

467
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 4: And a lot of time we reinvented the wheel and

468
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,159
Speaker 4: maybe it wasn't the most efficient thing, but on the

469
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 4: other hand, that meant we did a lot of things

470
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,280
Speaker 4: that were different and innovative. So in some ways, getting

471
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,000
Speaker 4: people who aren't coming in and going oh, well, I've

472
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,000
Speaker 4: done this a hundred times before. The big boys are here,

473
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,600
Speaker 4: Now let's you know, we'll do it this way that

474
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,200
Speaker 4: I've done it in the past, and instead going let's

475
00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:32,640
Speaker 4: critically look at what the problem is and figure out

476
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 4: how we can solve it intelligently is really powerful.

477
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,240
Speaker 1: You've mentioned the confidence is something that you know, it's

478
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:43,560
Speaker 1: kind of like being the thing for you and I

479
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 1: know you've spoken about imposter syndrome and being a people pleaser,

480
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:50,720
Speaker 1: and you've developed really cool strategies for overcoming that.

481
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,000
Speaker 2: Can you talk about that?

482
00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I think that I spent a long time

483
00:23:56,080 --> 00:24:01,200
Speaker 4: feeling like I was trying to cover up, like I

484
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 4: wasn't actually as intelligent, as capable, as good as everyone

485
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 4: maybe thought I was. You know, I was running you know,

486
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 4: a fifty person team at twenty seven, you know, and

487
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,840
Speaker 4: you know, deeply inexperienced in doing that, and had to

488
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 4: learn on the job a lot. And my coping mechanism

489
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,720
Speaker 4: was to go, I've well, no, it's okay, I've got

490
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,159
Speaker 4: it all figured out, when in fact, I, you know,

491
00:24:24,280 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 4: I didn't. And then we went through a period where

492
00:24:28,200 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 4: we had a lot of very experienced people coming into

493
00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:32,919
Speaker 4: the business and I kind of thought, oh, well, I'll

494
00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 4: step aside again. The big kids are here now, and

495
00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 4: they said, don't worry, we got this, we know how

496
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 4: to do this, and then realizing that actually, oftentimes, unfortunately

497
00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,919
Speaker 4: they didn't, and that there was something different about the

498
00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 4: way I was doing it, which was helpful and useful and.

499
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 3: You know better in some cases.

500
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 4: So I kind of had to figure out what it

501
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:56,320
Speaker 4: was that was going on with me. I think, especially

502
00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 4: you know the tech VC world in the US, they

503
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:00,879
Speaker 4: talk big game.

504
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,840
Speaker 3: I never did. What did that mean about me? You know?

505
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,159
Speaker 4: It was it was one of those things where I

506
00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:07,679
Speaker 4: felt like I really needed to address it, and there

507
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 4: was a few things I did, a few steps that

508
00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 4: I went through. The first thing was is that I

509
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 4: went and looked around me to people who people that

510
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,439
Speaker 4: I just felt like had a really natural confidence around them.

511
00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 4: And honestly, those two people were best friend Natalie Tam

512
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 4: and my husband, like honestly just naturally confident, you know,

513
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,199
Speaker 4: chilled out, you know, just I wanted to emulate the

514
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 4: two of them, not to say that they thought they

515
00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 4: could do everything. I just I felt like they I

516
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 4: felt like they were very effective in that they never

517
00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 4: worried about asking questions that might make them look stupid.

518
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 4: They never worried about that, and I always worried about that.

519
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 4: So I needed to shift my thinking from wanting to

520
00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 4: seem like the smartest person in the room to wanting

521
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 4: to leave the room being the smartest person in the room.

522
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:56,280
Speaker 3: And it was.

523
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,399
Speaker 4: It meant that I needed to ask questions constantly and

524
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 4: I needed to.

525
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 3: Not care whether it made me look like an idiot.

526
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,119
Speaker 4: I think I also needed to start saying yes to

527
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,240
Speaker 4: opportunities even when they really scared me, because for a

528
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 4: long time I kind of tried to avoid failing really

529
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,959
Speaker 4: and I had to get really used to and comfortable

530
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 4: failing all the time and figuring out how to cope

531
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:26,280
Speaker 4: with that. And the more I do it, the less

532
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,200
Speaker 4: it became about me, and the more it became about

533
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:29,960
Speaker 4: the concept that I was just trying to do really

534
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 4: hard things and that when you try and do really

535
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:36,760
Speaker 4: hard things that someone's never done before, oftentimes you fail.

536
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,520
Speaker 4: And honestly, like I can tell you, I'm probably about

537
00:26:40,119 --> 00:26:44,159
Speaker 4: ten startups in all up, and there's a lot you

538
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:45,640
Speaker 4: haven't heard about it and don't know about.

539
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 3: Because they didn't succeed. And close them down, I mean,

540
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 3: all that.

541
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 4: Didn't work, all right, Better shut that down and keep

542
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,639
Speaker 4: on going. And I think the final step, the final

543
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 4: piece of the puzzle for me. And again it's making

544
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 4: it sound like I've got this completely figured out, which

545
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,160
Speaker 4: I don't.

546
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,159
Speaker 3: But the most the most effective thing I did overall.

547
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 4: Was I got really clear about where I was weak

548
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 4: and where I was strong. So I think you know

549
00:27:08,560 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 4: when you have imposter syndrome. And I'm basing this anecdotally

550
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 4: on other people that I've spoken to, which I think

551
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 4: is a fairly human universal issue.

552
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 3: The more and more time that goes on, I believe.

553
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 4: That one tends to the whole concept of where you're

554
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 4: weak is so scary you never look that way. And

555
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,439
Speaker 4: I think I had this idea in my mind that

556
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:33,879
Speaker 4: I needed to be incredibly strong.

557
00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: In all areas.

558
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 4: Again, I had to be this machine who was as

559
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 4: right brained as I was left brained, and you know,

560
00:27:39,359 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 4: and just had to know everything. And I think I

561
00:27:44,280 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 4: realized that that was impossible, and I was setting totally

562
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 4: unrealistic expectations on myself and again not treating myself with

563
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:52,400
Speaker 4: a great deal of compassion.

564
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: And I decided that I needed to have.

565
00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:58,000
Speaker 4: A really critical look, learn where I was really strong,

566
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 4: but also learn where I was really weak. Because I

567
00:28:00,160 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 4: can adjust for my weaknesses, I can hire. I hire

568
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,840
Speaker 4: out my weaknesses. Now I find people who balance me

569
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 4: out and that can kind of adjust.

570
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,400
Speaker 3: I'm very left brained person, so.

571
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,119
Speaker 4: I need the left brains around me because they do

572
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:17,439
Speaker 4: absolutely incredible work. And I think most people, if their

573
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 4: left brain, will hire other left brains. I need guns

574
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:24,520
Speaker 4: of right brains. I need operational guns around me. And

575
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 4: I think once I realized where I specifically could add

576
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,919
Speaker 4: value and where I just needed to get out of

577
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 4: the way and find really strong people and trust them,

578
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 4: that really helped me. It gave me a lot of

579
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,720
Speaker 4: space to be really good at what I did and

580
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 4: free me up from constantly beating myself and beating myself

581
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:45,440
Speaker 4: up and being worried about the areas where I was weak.

582
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: You mentioned self talk a couple of times, and like

583
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: even just before we were about to start, you know,

584
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,640
Speaker 1: recording or doing what we're doing, you know, you mentioned

585
00:28:58,680 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: that you were feeling nervous.

586
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: Okay for me to say, like, what is yourself talk before.

587
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: Things like this and your approach I guess to overcoming

588
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: the nerves that you might be feeling, which I must

589
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: say shocks me because it's.

590
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:15,560
Speaker 2: Like you got this, like you're awesome.

591
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think.

592
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 4: That I genuinely just I wouldn't say that I get

593
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: downright nervous anymore. But I was saying to a couple

594
00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 4: of people that I know before I came in, I

595
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 4: was like, oh, I find it. I'm finding it difficult

596
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 4: to hold to conduct a conversation with you right now,

597
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 4: because my head is so in like mentally preparing myself,

598
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 4: and I think that it is for me, it's all about,

599
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 4: all right, well, I genuinely want to be really present

600
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 4: in this conversation because I recognize that people are giving

601
00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:47,440
Speaker 4: up an hour of their time and have woken up

602
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 4: early in the morning and everything else to be here.

603
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 3: And it's it's.

604
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 4: About me providing, hopefully providing some value in.

605
00:29:57,600 --> 00:29:59,840
Speaker 3: This conversation and of being an interesting conversation.

606
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 4: So I think I used to get exceptionally nervous, and

607
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 4: a couple of things really helped. Once I was on

608
00:30:09,400 --> 00:30:13,080
Speaker 4: a panel and the interviewer asked a very very complicated

609
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 4: question and the woman next to me and I was

610
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 4: freaking out, like I don't know how to answer this,

611
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, And the woman next to me said, ahh,

612
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:23,280
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I don't know the answer to that question.

613
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 3: Can you come back to me? And I thought, that's

614
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: a great answer. That's a perfectly reasonable position to take.

615
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 3: And again that's the thing about you don't need.

616
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:38,560
Speaker 4: To know everything, you don't need to be the authority

617
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 4: on everything, which to me has been very, very freeing

618
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,560
Speaker 4: and very helpful. And the other thing was yet again,

619
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,480
Speaker 4: you know, I was about to go on stage that

620
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,040
Speaker 4: I was talking to you about this particular event. I

621
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 4: was telling this story that because we were putting the

622
00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 4: mic on, and I said that I went to an

623
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 4: AFR event which was just the whole audience was journo's,

624
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 4: like three hundred of them, and I was wearing this big,

625
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 4: flowy yellow dress and they said, we've got to put

626
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 4: We've got to like they do this thing where they

627
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:08,640
Speaker 4: like hook the mic into your belts, but I didn't

628
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:08,880
Speaker 4: have a.

629
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 3: Belt, so they were like, what are you going to

630
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 3: do with this?

631
00:31:12,280 --> 00:31:14,240
Speaker 4: So I'm like standing at the back in kind of

632
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 4: the audio visual area, pulling up my dress and trying

633
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:17,480
Speaker 4: to stuff it into my underpants.

634
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,160
Speaker 2: It was like just just.

635
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 3: Like not the most empowering way to start an event.

636
00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: But anyway, going up, the journalist said to me, she said, Okay,

637
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 4: we're going to talk about I'd really like to ask

638
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,520
Speaker 4: you this question about what's this new ruling with listed companies.

639
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 3: It's new ruling with listed companies.

640
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 2: What does it mean?

641
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:40,720
Speaker 3: Invite is not a listed company.

642
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:44,480
Speaker 4: It is not an era of interest for me at all,

643
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 4: like literally not even slightly and I could feel my

644
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 4: heart starting to you know, boom boom boom boom, imposter syndrome.

645
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 3: I'm gonna be found out. They're going to realize I

646
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 3: shouldn't be here. This is going to be super embarrassing.

647
00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 3: And instead I just turned around.

648
00:31:58,240 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 4: I said to her, listen, you're very welcome to ask

649
00:31:59,920 --> 00:32:03,480
Speaker 4: me that question, but I honestly have no idea. I

650
00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 4: have no idea what the answer is, so I will

651
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 4: literally just stay on stage. I'm so sorry we're not listed.

652
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 4: This isn't an aera of interest for me. You should

653
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:15,479
Speaker 4: ask someone else. And again, they sound like really little things,

654
00:32:15,600 --> 00:32:19,200
Speaker 4: but really helpful in times, you know, in times like

655
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 4: that where you're kind of there's pressure and you're on

656
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 4: stage and you kind.

657
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 3: Of you want to you want to perform and be useful.

658
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:27,239
Speaker 1: That is a goal I'm going to use that. I'm

659
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: actually on a panel in a couple of hours on

660
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: the other.

661
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: Side of the city.

662
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,280
Speaker 1: I'm hoping that they asked me a real josy of

663
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: a question. So I got no idea.

664
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 2: That's great.

665
00:32:38,560 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: Now you're you're involved slash running three businesses, obviously less

666
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 1: involved in Invado. I want to know structurally, what does

667
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,600
Speaker 1: that look like, and also mentally you compartmentalizing. How do

668
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: you have three successful businesses that you're involved in.

669
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 4: It's one of those things where I was I do

670
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:00,760
Speaker 4: try and divide up my days. So I try and

671
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 4: divide up my days into I'm either thinking about milkshake

672
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:06,360
Speaker 4: or I'm thinking about hay Tiger. The reality is is

673
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 4: that both of those things are growing very quickly, and

674
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 4: oftentimes that's not the way it works out. I think

675
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 4: that it works better when I do, you know, the

676
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 4: things that I'm really good at, and I get out

677
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 4: of the way everywhere else, and I just trust the

678
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 4: people that I'm working with and they're extremely competent, so

679
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 4: it's really it's not a stretch for me.

680
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 3: To do it.

681
00:33:33,760 --> 00:33:36,240
Speaker 4: I think that, you know, the best quote I heard

682
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,320
Speaker 4: in relation to this is the Game of Thrones documentary.

683
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,960
Speaker 3: I know I'm a total geek, but it was really really,

684
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: it was really interesting.

685
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,840
Speaker 4: And the director of you know, a bunch of the

686
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: best Game of Thrones episodes, you know, the Red Wedding

687
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 4: and things like that, quite an eccentric, quiet guy, but clearly.

688
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 3: An absolute genius. And they asked him how.

689
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 4: It was working on this gigantic project and he said,

690
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 4: you know, I'm just the conductor of fine musicians. All

691
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 4: I do is I wave my hands around, And honestly,

692
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 4: I thought, this is the most apt description of what

693
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 4: it is that I actually do. I think the really

694
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 4: hard part for me is focusing in and going all right,

695
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,280
Speaker 4: I've got to find the musicians, these really incredible musicians.

696
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,799
Speaker 4: And when I was trying to find the musicians for

697
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:25,880
Speaker 4: hay Tiger, I was only focused on hay Tiger because

698
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,960
Speaker 4: you know, I had to find incredible people, and then

699
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 4: I had to work really closely with them so that

700
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,919
Speaker 4: you know, they kind of they understood what we were doing,

701
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,799
Speaker 4: and they were clear, and they knew where you know,

702
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 4: they knew where.

703
00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:38,200
Speaker 3: We were heading.

704
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 4: And then you know, honestly, it's time for me to

705
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 4: honestly just just be there to cultivate leadership. That's actually

706
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 4: all that I'm doing now with these people.

707
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:50,360
Speaker 3: They're very competent.

708
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 4: Yeah.

709
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 2: Wow.

710
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: And so you said that you've kind of got this

711
00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: intention that the day will be around a certain business,

712
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 1: but it's probably not in reality.

713
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,279
Speaker 4: Like I go to different workplaces and then I try

714
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 4: and work mostly on the place that I'm at, but

715
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 4: it doesn't always work out that way.

716
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: You're in the tech world and have been in the

717
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: tech world for like most of your adult life, are

718
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: you I want to know, like, what are the the

719
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: technologies like apps, gadgets and so forth that have served

720
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:21,840
Speaker 1: you best? What are the things that have made the

721
00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:25,800
Speaker 1: biggest impact in your life.

722
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 3: I've gone through a lot of periods where I've found

723
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,719
Speaker 3: things very, very useful. So, you know, I did.

724
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,279
Speaker 4: I had that app on my phone for a while

725
00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 4: which told me I was going to die five times,

726
00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 4: five times a day, which we were talking about.

727
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:42,799
Speaker 3: Basically, all it says is five times a day.

728
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:44,879
Speaker 4: It just comes up and goes just a reminder you're

729
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:46,200
Speaker 4: going to die soon.

730
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 3: Which sounds really intense.

731
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 4: But on the other hand, if you're trying to get

732
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,640
Speaker 4: back to the core of like I want to be

733
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,920
Speaker 4: present in my life and I want to make every

734
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 4: moment count.

735
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:03,080
Speaker 3: Of it's really good. Just suddenly, Oh does all of

736
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 3: this actually matter?

737
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:04,160
Speaker 4: No?

738
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:04,799
Speaker 2: Probably not.

739
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 3: I'm just gonna enjoy it. So that was an interesting one.

740
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 4: But again, I think, you know, having that come up

741
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 4: five times also, once my eight year old.

742
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: Could read that was the one. Yeah, you know, I did.

743
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 3: I took that.

744
00:36:21,160 --> 00:36:22,920
Speaker 4: I took that off, but it was very you know,

745
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 4: very useful for its time. Funnily enough, the Calm app

746
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:35,440
Speaker 4: is the one app that I've had, you know, for months, years, years,

747
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 4: like I think, basically since it launched. And that's an

748
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 4: app that basically has a series of meditations and sleep

749
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 4: stories and music to help you focus.

750
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 3: Or help you do whatever it is you might do.

751
00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,560
Speaker 4: And out of all the apps that I've ever had,

752
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 4: I think that's the one that kind of I come

753
00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:53,440
Speaker 4: back to most consistently.

754
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 2: Hmm, that's cool.

755
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I must say I do like Calm, and they

756
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: have been a sponsor of the show's.

757
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 3: Right because not why I said that, to be clear.

758
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,520
Speaker 1: And I've read that your your kind of go to

759
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 1: to do list manager is Bear.

760
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:11,480
Speaker 3: Yes still the case.

761
00:37:11,680 --> 00:37:15,000
Speaker 4: Yes, I still use Bear. I really live off Bear.

762
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:19,480
Speaker 4: So I am a massive list writer. In fact, my

763
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 4: parents have often said because my parents are super cool,

764
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 4: super hippie, intuitive, arty people, and they're always like, we

765
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 4: don't know how we got this little girl who just

766
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 4: loved writing lists. I had like glasses and a mono

767
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 4: brown I organized, and you know, so I do. I

768
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,200
Speaker 4: find lists very very helpful and very soothing, and I

769
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: think they helped me find purpose and systems.

770
00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 3: In what it is that I'm doing and help me,

771
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 3: you know, remember things.

772
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,000
Speaker 4: And I've lists for everything. I've lists for you know,

773
00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:51,960
Speaker 4: the funny things. My kids have said, I have lists

774
00:37:51,960 --> 00:37:53,839
Speaker 4: for the place so I want to travel to. I

775
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,799
Speaker 4: have lists for every one on one that I have,

776
00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 4: and you know, and you know, they're all categorized and

777
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:04,279
Speaker 4: sought and it's it's pretty intense when you look at it, but.

778
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: But it's useful.

779
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 4: And I don't have a diary, and it's but I

780
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:08,680
Speaker 4: there's a book called The Art of the List, which

781
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 4: is a French book about a woman who lives in

782
00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,440
Speaker 4: Japan and is French and writs lists. And she just

783
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,000
Speaker 4: has a million different lists that you can write. It's

784
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:19,439
Speaker 4: very soothing. What are the best meals I've ever had?

785
00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 4: One of my favorite restaurants?

786
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 3: It's great. I'll stop talking about lists now.

787
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,600
Speaker 1: I feel I love lists. I want to know what

788
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:29,120
Speaker 1: are the categories of list do you have? And also

789
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,640
Speaker 1: you like do you have shared lists as well?

790
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:34,160
Speaker 3: I don't have shared lists.

791
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,680
Speaker 4: Funnily enough, might be might be a great thing to do,

792
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 4: especially with Collis. I can imagine with my husband. I

793
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:42,200
Speaker 4: think that would be really really good. My categories of lists.

794
00:38:42,320 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have work to do. I have work goals, so.

795
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:52,120
Speaker 4: You know that like the macro and the micro effectively,

796
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:57,800
Speaker 4: I have kids, I have home life, I have fun,

797
00:38:58,440 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 4: I have travel.

798
00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:02,560
Speaker 2: A fun list like what's on the funds a category

799
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:03,320
Speaker 2: which is fun.

800
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 4: So if it's like, here are the I love cooking,

801
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:09,479
Speaker 4: here are the things that I want to bake that's

802
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,320
Speaker 4: in fun. That's categorized by fun and home and kids,

803
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:18,520
Speaker 4: So I feel like this isn't actually.

804
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,359
Speaker 2: I love getting the insight into the mine show of list.

805
00:39:25,520 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 2: I think that's great.

806
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 4: I do.

807
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:30,760
Speaker 1: I do want to ask you about something that happened

808
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: in late twenty sixteen where you were kind of struck

809
00:39:34,239 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: with an eye ulcer and had the risk of going blind.

810
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: And I want to know if you can sort of

811
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 1: just share what happened during that time and what did

812
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 1: you change about how you kind of rang your life.

813
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,600
Speaker 2: I guess after that.

814
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:56,560
Speaker 4: That was a really interesting time. So I just in

815
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 4: twenty fifteen I won the Telstra Business Woan of the

816
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 4: Year award, and up till and then I'd been completely

817
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 4: under the radar, hadn't done.

818
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 3: Any public speaking, had just been purely.

819
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,959
Speaker 4: Focused on Invarto and When that happened, it just went

820
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 4: whoomph and I started doing a huge amount of public speaking,

821
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,960
Speaker 4: and you know, we're on a bit of a hiring kick,

822
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 4: so it was a really useful thing to do to

823
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 4: start talking about in Varto publicly within Australia. Because Invarto's

824
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 4: only four percent Australian market, so there's never been any

825
00:40:25,680 --> 00:40:26,839
Speaker 4: reason to do local.

826
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 3: PR before it's all US and Europe.

827
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:31,840
Speaker 4: But from an employee brand point of view, it suddenly

828
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 4: made sense, so did a huge amount of that stuff

829
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 4: found it.

830
00:40:36,160 --> 00:40:37,840
Speaker 3: It was a period of intense growth.

831
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 4: I had to kind of, you know, look at a

832
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: bunch of things and try and get comfortable being uncomfortable

833
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:47,040
Speaker 4: in a way that I hadn't before. And interestingly enough,

834
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 4: the last night, so basically you do it for a

835
00:40:49,880 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 4: full year, and then the last night before the new

836
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:56,720
Speaker 4: awards take place, you do a panel where you speak

837
00:40:56,760 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 4: to the finalists of the following year and that morning,

838
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 4: you know, put my contact lenses in as usual, and

839
00:41:04,120 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 4: I come during the dad and like, my eye kind

840
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 4: of hurts, but I'm too busy. I've been running hard,

841
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 4: like I'd been running really really hard and arguably not

842
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,640
Speaker 4: really resting enough and taking good enough care of myself.

843
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 4: And by the evening I got off the panel and

844
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 4: I was like, my eye is killing me. I made

845
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 4: my apologies. I went home, you know, washed my eye,

846
00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 4: I did all that stuff, and I said to my husband,

847
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:28,759
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go to bed. I just my eye is

848
00:41:28,800 --> 00:41:31,040
Speaker 4: too painful, and he said, all right, you know, and

849
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,120
Speaker 4: I thought we'd be fine in the morning. And I

850
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:35,960
Speaker 4: woke up in the morning and I thought, whoa, this hurts.

851
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:37,360
Speaker 4: And I turned around and looked at my husband and

852
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 4: he said, oh, okay, I'm going to take you to

853
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:39,279
Speaker 4: hospital now.

854
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:40,960
Speaker 3: Because your eyes just messed up.

855
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:45,400
Speaker 4: And I had an aggressive bacterial ulsa on my corneer

856
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:50,160
Speaker 4: and so effectively it looked like kind of a milky

857
00:41:50,280 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 4: halo was just taking over my eye very very quickly.

858
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,439
Speaker 4: And so we went to the hospital and the ie

859
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,920
Speaker 4: specialist said, look, this looks very aggressive.

860
00:41:59,360 --> 00:41:59,919
Speaker 3: You might lose.

861
00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 4: And so it was one of those oh crap, what

862
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 4: does this mean kind of moments you're thinking, can I

863
00:42:05,920 --> 00:42:06,880
Speaker 4: rock an eye patch?

864
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: Like you know, like really you know? And there's a

865
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:10,879
Speaker 3: story I always.

866
00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:12,920
Speaker 4: Tell, but it's just I just can't not tell it

867
00:42:12,960 --> 00:42:16,080
Speaker 4: because he's just such a pure human. Collis was like,

868
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:18,239
Speaker 4: don't worry, I'm sitting at the hospital. He's like, I'm gonna

869
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 4: go get us coffees. I'll be back in five minutes.

870
00:42:20,960 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 4: And he came back five minutes later and he said, honey,

871
00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 4: it's gonna be okay. I just went all the way

872
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:28,000
Speaker 4: to the cafe ordered and came back with one eye closed,

873
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 4: and I was fine.

874
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,160
Speaker 3: And it was just one of those moments I think

875
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,320
Speaker 3: I'll remember on my deathbed of just what a pure,

876
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 3: beautiful human that man is.

877
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:44,960
Speaker 4: So but I basically the way that they treated it

878
00:42:45,040 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 4: was I had to have like antibiotic eye drops in

879
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:52,320
Speaker 4: my eye every hour, twenty.

880
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 3: Four hours a day for quite some time, like you know,

881
00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,760
Speaker 3: more than a week. So I became woo sleep deprived

882
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:01,759
Speaker 3: really bizarrely.

883
00:43:01,239 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 4: You know, if you're not getting any rem sleep and

884
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,040
Speaker 4: you're only sleeping forty five minutes at a time, that's like,

885
00:43:05,239 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 4: you know, it's like kind of what they do torture people.

886
00:43:07,360 --> 00:43:09,840
Speaker 4: As far as I understand it, not that I'm deeply

887
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:13,680
Speaker 4: experienced in that area, but I I've been told, so,

888
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 4: you know, severely sleep deprived. And imagine you're going from

889
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,680
Speaker 4: you know, working really long hours pushing yourself really hard,

890
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: running really hard. You have two little kids, so two

891
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,520
Speaker 4: kids under five, and then suddenly you're doing nothing. And

892
00:43:27,560 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 4: on top of that, they said, you know this is

893
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 4: this sort of ulcer bizarly is more painful and doesn't

894
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,239
Speaker 4: heal as quickly if you're in light, So be in

895
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 4: the dark all the time. So I was just in

896
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 4: a dark room. First I was in the hospital, then

897
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 4: I was in a dark room. And looking back, it

898
00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 4: was one of the best things that could have happened,

899
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 4: because I think I during that period it was a

900
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:50,680
Speaker 4: really like it was like taking a total hiatus from

901
00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:55,160
Speaker 4: your life and this really intense enforced period of reflection. So,

902
00:43:56,360 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 4: you know, what is it that I'm doing in my life?

903
00:43:58,440 --> 00:44:00,360
Speaker 4: Am I enjoying this? Is it the best use of

904
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:03,400
Speaker 4: my time? Knowing that life is potentially short thanks to

905
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:04,200
Speaker 4: the eye and the app?

906
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 3: Is this the best way for me to be using

907
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:08,640
Speaker 3: my time?

908
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 4: And I already established, like you know, life's you know,

909
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:15,279
Speaker 4: in my mind, life's probably about two things. Having really

910
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,839
Speaker 4: big experiences, so experiencing it, really living it, and hopefully

911
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 4: in your own little way, doing something that's kind of

912
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,279
Speaker 4: useful and helpful to the world. Leaving it in a

913
00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:26,120
Speaker 4: tiny weeny bit of a better place than it was

914
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:28,759
Speaker 4: when you arrived. I think, when it boils down to it,

915
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:33,080
Speaker 4: that's like my life philosophy, I guess. And I think

916
00:44:33,600 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 4: I realized, Okay, well where in Varto is now international

917
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 4: tax law, divesity in inclusion programs. You know, whilst I'm

918
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:48,400
Speaker 4: really grateful that I did those things, wasn't where my

919
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 4: passion lay anymore in terms of the day to day,

920
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,200
Speaker 4: like what I did with my days. I still love Invada,

921
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:56,920
Speaker 4: I'm still passionate about it. I'm still proud to be

922
00:44:56,960 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 4: a part of it, but in terms of my day

923
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 4: to day, it just didn't resonate with me. And I

924
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 4: think I'd always had in my mind I want to

925
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:06,680
Speaker 4: do a social enterprise next, and i'd met Daniel and

926
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 4: Justin Flynn who found it Thank You Group, And when

927
00:45:09,640 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 4: I met them, I was like, I want to be

928
00:45:11,080 --> 00:45:12,640
Speaker 4: like you when I grow up, and they're like seven

929
00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 4: years younger than me, and I was like, I better

930
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 4: kind of, you know, get on with this. And I

931
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 4: came out the other side of that of that period,

932
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,640
Speaker 4: and I thought, all right, I don't even know exactly

933
00:45:23,640 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 4: what it is, but I know I want to start

934
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 4: a new startup.

935
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,800
Speaker 3: I know that I want it to be a social enterprise.

936
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,799
Speaker 4: Because that is, you know, Withinvata, one of the things

937
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 4: that always resonated with me was how effective it can

938
00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 4: be at being helpful to people, serving its community. And

939
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 4: I think that business is very focused on oftentimes, you know,

940
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 4: serving its shareholders only, and I believe that's an outmoded

941
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 4: kind of attitude and philosophy to business, which leads to

942
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 4: a lot of you.

943
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,080
Speaker 3: Know, the injustices in the world.

944
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 4: So a social enterprise seemed like the logical conclusion of

945
00:45:58,880 --> 00:46:00,760
Speaker 4: that way of thinking, and I decided I'm just gonna

946
00:46:00,800 --> 00:46:03,040
Speaker 4: I'm gonna look for an idea and ideally I'd like

947
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:04,720
Speaker 4: it to be something I can hold in my hands,

948
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:05,760
Speaker 4: was my other metric.

949
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:10,279
Speaker 1: So how do you build like this rest and reflective

950
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:13,360
Speaker 1: kind of mode into your life since twenty sixteen? Is

951
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 1: that something that you've deliberately done so you don't end

952
00:46:17,160 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 1: up like back in hospital.

953
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 4: I try to, and I'm not always entirely successful, to

954
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 4: be told.

955
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not having ended up back in hospital, but.

956
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:35,520
Speaker 4: I'm not entirely successful at balancing. Balancing is a constant

957
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,440
Speaker 4: struggle to me, So What I find that I tend

958
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 4: to do is I push really hard. I try and

959
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:43,880
Speaker 4: do everything, and then I have a period where I go,

960
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:45,799
Speaker 4: oh no, need to pull back. I need to pull

961
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 4: back a bit, and then I readjust so it's almost

962
00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:50,840
Speaker 4: like I work in I work in cycles. I have

963
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:54,880
Speaker 4: these cycles where I'm have this tremendous output and I

964
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,080
Speaker 4: do a huge amount of things and I set things

965
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,359
Speaker 4: up and then and then I need to pull back

966
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 4: and I need to kind of recharge. And that's the

967
00:47:02,600 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 4: thing which makes sense to me. I find it very

968
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 4: difficult to find balance on a day to day level.

969
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 4: Although I do try it, I'm just not entirely successful

970
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:13,400
Speaker 4: with it.

971
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: What does that look like when you pull back? Like

972
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 1: practically speaking.

973
00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 4: So when I pull back, I try to work less,

974
00:47:22,080 --> 00:47:25,279
Speaker 4: which is you know, hard for me.

975
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,120
Speaker 3: I try and be less involved in my you know,

976
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 3: in my.

977
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 4: Email, in my day to day and generally speaking, it

978
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,719
Speaker 4: coincides with a time when you know, I'm like, oh no,

979
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:36,799
Speaker 4: the team actually has this, and an actual fact, it

980
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 4: serves them best for me to get out of the

981
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 4: way as well, because sometimes I can, because I'm trying

982
00:47:41,239 --> 00:47:43,040
Speaker 4: to do so many things, I can be like a

983
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:47,600
Speaker 4: traffic block, so it oftentimes serves everybody really well. If

984
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 4: I suddenly go, okay, I'm not coping very well at

985
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,839
Speaker 4: this point, I can see that I've gone too far

986
00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 4: into intense stress not being present mode. I'm going to

987
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 4: really try and pull lit back and just be still.

988
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,520
Speaker 4: And it's happened enough times now that I realized I

989
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 4: need to have faith in the process. And I think

990
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:13,279
Speaker 4: reading things like you know about artists and musicians and

991
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 4: composers where they have these periods of great creativity and

992
00:48:17,160 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 4: great output and you know, incredible fruitfulness and then these

993
00:48:21,600 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 4: periods where everything's almost like laying fallow. That's really helpful

994
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 4: to me to consider it in that way, because I

995
00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 4: do find it quite stressful when I have these periods

996
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:30,640
Speaker 4: where I need to pull it back.

997
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: Now, I've got two final questions for you. Firstly, the

998
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:38,600
Speaker 1: Hunger Project, which which I can share that we've raised

999
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:41,640
Speaker 1: one hundred and thirty six dollars, so thank.

1000
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:44,320
Speaker 2: You everyone for your donations.

1001
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,000
Speaker 1: And psy can you tell me a bit about what

1002
00:48:47,040 --> 00:48:50,800
Speaker 1: the Hunger Project is and why that's your charity of choice?

1003
00:48:51,480 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 4: T HP, the Hunger Project garner is Hay Tiger's chad partner.

1004
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 3: So Hay Tiger is a social enterprise.

1005
00:48:59,520 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 4: It exists to support cocoa farming communities in Ghana, and

1006
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:08,239
Speaker 4: beyond that, it kind of it's honestly a bit of

1007
00:49:08,280 --> 00:49:09,799
Speaker 4: an experiment in terms of.

1008
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 3: Figuring out how kind of what a.

1009
00:49:13,160 --> 00:49:18,839
Speaker 4: Business can be if it exists to serve the communities

1010
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,680
Speaker 4: that it interacts with. So this concept that all parties

1011
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:23,760
Speaker 4: rise in the transaction I find to be a really

1012
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,360
Speaker 4: interesting concept. You know, people don't like talking about capitalism,

1013
00:49:27,440 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 4: but the best possible version of capitalism where everyone wins.

1014
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:33,280
Speaker 3: I'm not saying we're there.

1015
00:49:33,440 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 4: It's going to be like a ten year project, but

1016
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 4: I find that concept a really interesting one. So a

1017
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 4: big problem in the coco industry is that generally farmers

1018
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 4: earns seventy three cents per day, which is well.

1019
00:49:46,520 --> 00:49:47,640
Speaker 3: Below the poverty line.

1020
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:51,680
Speaker 4: And cocoa farmers in West Africa and there's two point

1021
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 4: two million children in child labor on cocoa plantations in

1022
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:55,800
Speaker 4: West Africa.

1023
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 3: Those are both things that felt to me like.

1024
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:04,200
Speaker 4: Really really broken components of an industry that you know,

1025
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:07,400
Speaker 4: is responsible for something that I absolutely love and I

1026
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 4: know that I and many people get a great deal

1027
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 4: of pleasure out of so when it came time to

1028
00:50:11,440 --> 00:50:15,160
Speaker 4: look for a charitable partner to donate funds from.

1029
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 3: Each bar too.

1030
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:22,160
Speaker 4: I was really looking for an organization that would holistically

1031
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 4: support these communities, these coco farming communities, because all the

1032
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 4: kind of all the research on this issue seems to

1033
00:50:30,040 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 4: be that it's about it's a greater issue than paying

1034
00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 4: more for coco. So we source all our coco ethically,

1035
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 4: but that alone is really not going to shift the

1036
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 4: doll because there are major systemic issues. So what I

1037
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:46,640
Speaker 4: loved about THHP is that it's really holistic. It's focused

1038
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,440
Speaker 4: on women, which I think study after study now indicate

1039
00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,360
Speaker 4: is the best way if you're going to fund charity projects,

1040
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:54,759
Speaker 4: funding women is a really really effective.

1041
00:50:54,239 --> 00:50:55,319
Speaker 3: Way to go about doing it.

1042
00:50:56,200 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 4: They tend to just put more money back into their

1043
00:50:57,960 --> 00:50:59,320
Speaker 4: local communities than men.

1044
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 3: Do for whatever reason.

1045
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 4: And I think what's interesting about THHP is that, you know,

1046
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:12,160
Speaker 4: it covers everything from microfinance loans for women farmers, to

1047
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 4: farming practices, to First one thousand Days of Life programs

1048
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:21,640
Speaker 4: to save birth to HIV AIDS education. It's the more

1049
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:25,240
Speaker 4: I dive into it, it's this multi step, holistic program

1050
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,560
Speaker 4: based around education. That is that it kind of has

1051
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:33,280
Speaker 4: a virality to it, which I find really really interesting.

1052
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,840
Speaker 4: And the whole idea is the community reaches self reliance

1053
00:51:35,880 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 4: on their own terms within ten years.

1054
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 2: That's awesome.

1055
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,399
Speaker 1: And my final question, if people want to discover more

1056
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: about you and what you're.

1057
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 2: Doing or your businesses, where should they go?

1058
00:51:46,120 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: So I guess you could go to Instagram.

1059
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 4: I'm at Science CYA, NC tied taw D.

1060
00:51:53,400 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 3: I've got a complicated name, so spelling it is.

1061
00:51:55,520 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 4: Necessary, and or you know, you know, hey, Target dot

1062
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:02,799
Speaker 4: com dot are you has you know a lot of

1063
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,840
Speaker 4: information about what we do in the chocolate that we

1064
00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 4: make and why we do it.

1065
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 3: And then there's Milkshake, which is the new app we launched,

1066
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 3: which is basically.

1067
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,360
Speaker 4: All about being able to set up a website in

1068
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 4: your phone within ten minutes via Instagram, which is very

1069
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:20,560
Speaker 4: pretty and very useful. I think to a lot of

1070
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,680
Speaker 4: entrepreneurs who you know, run their businesses from their phone,

1071
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,719
Speaker 4: So any of those things.

1072
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,640
Speaker 1: Awesome, fantastic, Si, It's been an absolute pleasure.

1073
00:52:28,719 --> 00:52:31,120
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Never enjoying. Thank you.

1074
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:40,800
Speaker 1: Try that is it for today's show. If you enjoyed

1075
00:52:40,920 --> 00:52:43,240
Speaker 1: my chat with Sie, why not share it with someone

1076
00:52:43,280 --> 00:52:46,160
Speaker 1: else that you think would also enjoy it.

1077
00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 3: It is one of the ways that.

1078
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:51,080
Speaker 1: This podcast has grown so insanely over the last two

1079
00:52:51,120 --> 00:52:54,720
Speaker 1: and a half years, through lovely people like maybe yourself

1080
00:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,480
Speaker 1: sharing the episodes around, So thank you if you are

1081
00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 1: one of those people. So that's it for today's show

1082
00:53:02,320 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 1: and I will see you next time.