1
00:00:01,240 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,560
Speaker 1: Bunjelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

3
00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:10,799
Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

4
00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:14,400
Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

5
00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,319
Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

6
00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,120
Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

7
00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,000
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily os. It's Monday,

8
00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:30,639
Speaker 2: the sixth of November. I'm Sam and I am joined

9
00:00:30,640 --> 00:00:34,120
Speaker 2: today for the very first time his podcast debut TDA

10
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:35,720
Speaker 2: journalist Harry Sekolitch.

11
00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:38,639
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sam. I'm just so ecstatic to be here.

12
00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,200
Speaker 3: It's so good to have a new voice on the pod.

13
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:43,120
Speaker 2: I mean, everyone loves the cast of characters we've got

14
00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:45,360
Speaker 2: on the pot, but there's always room for one more.

15
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:47,320
Speaker 2: What are you going to bring us today?

16
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:50,479
Speaker 3: Well, a convicted terrorist who's been in jail for eighteen

17
00:00:50,560 --> 00:00:52,920
Speaker 3: years has been given the green light to get back

18
00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 3: his Australian citizenship after it was canceled in twenty twenty.

19
00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,880
Speaker 3: He plotted to blow up Australian landmark, but the High

20
00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,920
Speaker 3: Court has found the punishment didn't fit the crime.

21
00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,479
Speaker 4: Abdul Nassa Benbrika was convicted over terror plots, including one

22
00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:10,920
Speaker 4: to attack the Lucas Heights nuclear reactor.

23
00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,400
Speaker 3: So who is Abdul Nasir Benbrika? How is his citizenship

24
00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,039
Speaker 3: taken away? And why has it now been reinstated. We'll

25
00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:21,319
Speaker 3: let you know in the deep dive. But Fir Sam,

26
00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 3: what's making headlines?

27
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,760
Speaker 2: Victoria Police have confirmed five people have died after a

28
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,560
Speaker 2: car crashed into the beer garden at the Royal Hotel

29
00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:34,280
Speaker 2: in Dalesford, which is northwest of Melbourne. According to police,

30
00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,640
Speaker 2: a number of people are also injured.

31
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,480
Speaker 3: Schools in New Delhi have been forced to close due

32
00:01:41,520 --> 00:01:45,080
Speaker 3: to severe levels of air pollution. All primary schools in

33
00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,400
Speaker 3: the Indian capitol closed for two days, with the government

34
00:01:48,440 --> 00:01:52,440
Speaker 3: calling an emergency meeting to discuss next steps. Air pollution

35
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,920
Speaker 3: is expected to worsen in the next fortnight, coinciding with

36
00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:59,960
Speaker 3: factors like burnt crop remains by farmers and low winds.

37
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,000
Speaker 2: Anthony Alberanesi is in China in the first official visit

38
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,040
Speaker 2: by an Australian prime minister since twenty sixteen. Speaking in

39
00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:13,560
Speaker 2: Shanghai yesterday, Albanesi said Chinese President Gi can expect a

40
00:02:13,639 --> 00:02:18,320
Speaker 2: continuation of the patient, collaborated and deliberate way of engaging

41
00:02:18,360 --> 00:02:22,280
Speaker 2: in Australia's national interests. A major focus of the trip

42
00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,960
Speaker 2: will be the trading relationship between China and Australia, which

43
00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 2: may include the ending of long standing trade tariffs imposed

44
00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:32,160
Speaker 2: by China.

45
00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:35,720
Speaker 3: And the good news, scientists have discovered two pristine coral

46
00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 3: reefs in the waters surrounding the Galapagos Islands. The reefs

47
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,640
Speaker 3: has situated three hundred and seventy to four hundred and

48
00:02:42,720 --> 00:02:45,799
Speaker 3: twenty meters below sea level, with one of the reefs

49
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 3: spanning over eight hundred meters in length. The discovery has

50
00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 3: helped scientists expand their understanding of the reefs within the

51
00:02:52,600 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 3: Galapagos Islands Marine Reserve. Okay Sam, Today we are talking

52
00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:03,760
Speaker 3: about a convicted terrorist who had his citizenship taken away

53
00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:06,080
Speaker 3: from him and then given back to him in a

54
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,800
Speaker 3: case that involved the highest court in Australia and Parliament.

55
00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,040
Speaker 2: This is kind of bringing together all the kind of

56
00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:16,440
Speaker 2: Netflix tropes I think terror plot, you know, conviction in

57
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,080
Speaker 2: the highest court of the land. Which country does this

58
00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:22,359
Speaker 2: person belong to? But to take a step back from everything,

59
00:03:22,720 --> 00:03:25,960
Speaker 2: who is abdulna Sir Benbrika and how did he end

60
00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:27,480
Speaker 2: up originally behind bars?

61
00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:28,120
Speaker 1: So?

62
00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,280
Speaker 3: Ben Brica was born in Algeria in nineteen sixty and

63
00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,840
Speaker 3: arrived in Australia when he was twenty nine. He became

64
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,040
Speaker 3: an Australian citizen nine years later. So he held dual

65
00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:43,400
Speaker 3: citizenship in Algeria and Australia. And while it seems a

66
00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,119
Speaker 3: bit weird to bring up all these details, they will

67
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,080
Speaker 3: become important later on, so keep that in the back

68
00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 3: of your mind. Ben Brica was arrested in two thousand

69
00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:55,360
Speaker 3: and five in Melbourne as part of Australia's longest running

70
00:03:55,440 --> 00:04:00,480
Speaker 3: terrorism investigation, code named Operation Pendennis. Was found to be

71
00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:03,840
Speaker 3: part of an Islamist extremist group in Melbourne with ties

72
00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:06,040
Speaker 3: to a similar group in Sydney.

73
00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:10,920
Speaker 2: Abdul Nata Benbriker was of interest to Australian security agencies

74
00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,480
Speaker 2: long before his arrest.

75
00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:14,920
Speaker 4: For the first time it can be revealed that two

76
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:18,160
Speaker 4: terrorrist cells based in Melbourne and Sydney were working together

77
00:04:18,480 --> 00:04:20,360
Speaker 4: plotting attacks around Australia.

78
00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,839
Speaker 3: During Ben Breaker's trial, the Victorian Supreme Court heard evidence

79
00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,160
Speaker 3: that Benbriker had spoken about plans to carry out a

80
00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,200
Speaker 3: terrorist attack at the Melbourne Cricket ground, and he told

81
00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,280
Speaker 3: a witness his terrorist group had intended to launch an attack

82
00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,839
Speaker 3: at the AFL Grand Final, but they postponed plans due

83
00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:41,400
Speaker 3: to security and funding issues. The witness said. Benbreker mentioned

84
00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:45,360
Speaker 3: other possible targets including Melbourne's Crown Casino and the Grand

85
00:04:45,400 --> 00:04:49,960
Speaker 3: Prix weekend. Benbriker was found guilty of three terrorism offenses,

86
00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 3: including charges related to directing the activities of a terror group,

87
00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 3: and was handed a fifteen year sentence.

88
00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,880
Speaker 2: So that all happened in two thousand and five fifteen

89
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:02,880
Speaker 2: the year sentence takes us to twenty twenty. We're now

90
00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,200
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three, and obviously the story's back in

91
00:05:05,240 --> 00:05:08,839
Speaker 2: the news. What happened in twenty twenty and why didn't

92
00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:09,840
Speaker 2: he walk out of jail then?

93
00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,840
Speaker 3: Yeah, So in twenty twenty, the Home Affairs Minister at

94
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,280
Speaker 3: the time, Peter Dutton, applied for Benbricard to come under

95
00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,479
Speaker 3: what's known as a continuing detention order, basically asking for

96
00:05:20,640 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 3: Benbricard to remain behind bars even after his sentence was over.

97
00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:29,480
Speaker 3: This was partly based on a forensic psychologist assessment of

98
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,080
Speaker 3: Benbrika who she described as being at high risk of

99
00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:37,520
Speaker 3: violent extremism. Around the same time, the Coalition government passed

100
00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:40,840
Speaker 3: laws giving the Home Affairs Minister extra powers to cancel

101
00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,719
Speaker 3: the citizenships of convicted terrorists who also happened to be

102
00:05:44,839 --> 00:05:45,640
Speaker 3: dual citizens.

103
00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,880
Speaker 2: So basically the picture you're painting for me here is

104
00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,520
Speaker 2: you have someone who's finished their sentence and under this

105
00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:56,040
Speaker 2: continuing detention order they're actually allowed to be continually detained.

106
00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:57,920
Speaker 2: And at the same time as all of this, there's

107
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,400
Speaker 2: this question about his citizenship. What did Dutton do with

108
00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:02,400
Speaker 2: that citizenship?

109
00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:07,080
Speaker 3: So Peter Dutton came in and canceled Benbriker's citizenship after

110
00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,520
Speaker 3: passing these laws.

111
00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:13,400
Speaker 4: I canceled the Australian citizenship of convicted terrorist Abdul Messer Benbriker.

112
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:16,960
Speaker 4: He's the first individual to have lost his citizenship on

113
00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,560
Speaker 4: shore under the terrorism related provisions of the Australian Citizenship.

114
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,919
Speaker 3: Back saying Ben Breeker continued to pose a risk to

115
00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,480
Speaker 3: the Australian public and as a result he faced possible

116
00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,719
Speaker 3: deportation back to Algeria. But the High Court struck down

117
00:06:31,760 --> 00:06:35,000
Speaker 3: these laws two years later. The Court argued it was

118
00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,840
Speaker 3: unconstitutional for a branch of government to punish criminal guilt,

119
00:06:39,320 --> 00:06:42,279
Speaker 3: basically just saying the minister should stay in their lane

120
00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:45,000
Speaker 3: and that it was the court's job and not the minister's,

121
00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:48,600
Speaker 3: to decide whether Benbriker should have his citizenship canceled.

122
00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,960
Speaker 2: And so when the High Court overturns those laws, what

123
00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:53,920
Speaker 2: did that actually mean for Ben Breaker?

124
00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,800
Speaker 3: So, after those laws were changed, Benbriker's lawyers used the

125
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:01,960
Speaker 3: decision to argue that the camp of his Australian citizenship

126
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:06,120
Speaker 3: was invalid and that it should be reinstated. And that

127
00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 3: brings us up to last week, a six to one

128
00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,600
Speaker 3: majority in the High Court agreed with Benbriker's lawyers. They

129
00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,000
Speaker 3: argued that in twenty twenty, Dutton had carried out a

130
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 3: quote exclusively judicial function of punishing criminal guilt against Bembriker

131
00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,360
Speaker 3: and that he should be given his Australian citizenship back.

132
00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:27,040
Speaker 2: Well, Peter Dutton is no longer in power, of course,

133
00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:30,960
Speaker 2: it's now Anthony Alberanezi and Peter Dutton, then Home Affairs Minister,

134
00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,040
Speaker 2: is now the opposition leader. What does the current government

135
00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,040
Speaker 2: say about all of this?

136
00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:39,160
Speaker 3: Well, it's remarkably consistent. The Albanzer government actually wants to

137
00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,800
Speaker 3: bring back those old laws stripping any dual citizen convicted

138
00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:47,240
Speaker 3: of terrorism of their Australian citizenship. Prime Minister Anthony Alberanzi

139
00:07:47,360 --> 00:07:50,040
Speaker 3: said the government will look closely at the High Court

140
00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:55,000
Speaker 3: ruling on Benbrieker's citizenship and, in his words, respond appropriately.

141
00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,240
Speaker 3: In a statement, the Home Affairs Minister Clara O'Neill said

142
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:02,640
Speaker 3: the government will examine the judgment and its implications in detail.

143
00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,880
Speaker 3: So it looks like we'll be hearing more about the

144
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:08,600
Speaker 3: Ben Breaker High Court decision in the months and years ahead.

145
00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,920
Speaker 2: But for now it looks like Ben Breaker will have

146
00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:15,680
Speaker 2: his citizenship reinstated. What about this prison sentence. Is he

147
00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 2: currently behind bars?

148
00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:20,600
Speaker 3: Well, he is behind bars, but the decision about his

149
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,920
Speaker 3: citizenship doesn't impact the continuing order of detention.

150
00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:26,680
Speaker 2: So they're kind of two separate issues.

151
00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right. But while the citizenship case has played out,

152
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:33,240
Speaker 3: a separate legal case has been heard by a court

153
00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,319
Speaker 3: in Victoria. So, as I mentioned, there was a continuing

154
00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:40,000
Speaker 3: detention order in twenty twenty which allowed Benbriker to be

155
00:08:40,040 --> 00:08:43,559
Speaker 3: held in prison for a further three years. But when

156
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:46,360
Speaker 3: nearing the end of that period of time, it's due

157
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,680
Speaker 3: to expire on December twenty three this year, and so

158
00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,199
Speaker 3: the question has been what happens when the continuing detention

159
00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:56,720
Speaker 3: order comes to an end. The Victorian Supreme Court is

160
00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:01,000
Speaker 3: considering whether the continued detention order should be nude or

161
00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:04,400
Speaker 3: whether Benbrika should be released under a control order.

162
00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 2: What's a control order?

163
00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,960
Speaker 3: So a control order would mean that he would be released,

164
00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:13,840
Speaker 3: but would be under strict surveillance with curfews, attracking device

165
00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:17,320
Speaker 3: and provisions on who he can contact, as well as

166
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,320
Speaker 3: means of communication, so he might not even have access

167
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:25,080
Speaker 3: to a phone or Internet for example. It's worth noting

168
00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:27,840
Speaker 3: that there is no legal limit on the amount of

169
00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,200
Speaker 3: times that continuing detention order can be renewed.

170
00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:32,320
Speaker 2: So it could conceivably go on forever.

171
00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,360
Speaker 3: As a law states, yeah, that's right, and so if

172
00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,880
Speaker 3: Benbrika is deemed to be a threat to the community,

173
00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,240
Speaker 3: the Victorian courts will have grounds to keep him under

174
00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,000
Speaker 3: those strict conditions. So it's unclear at the moment whether

175
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,160
Speaker 3: or not he'll be released from prison at the end

176
00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:49,559
Speaker 3: of this year, but will keep you posted as more

177
00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,480
Speaker 3: information comes to light regarding his citizenship and his detainment.

178
00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:55,360
Speaker 2: I think you did pretty well for your first deep

179
00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:57,440
Speaker 2: dive Harry, thank you so much and I'm looking forward

180
00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 2: to many more episodes with you in future.

181
00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,719
Speaker 3: Thank you, Sam, it's been a pleasure to chat with you.

182
00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 2: And thank you for joining us today on The Daily Ods.

183
00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:08,600
Speaker 2: If you learn something from this episode, there's one thing

184
00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:11,600
Speaker 2: you can do in five seconds, maybe even four seconds,

185
00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:14,079
Speaker 2: that would mean the world to us. You can take

186
00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:16,200
Speaker 2: a screenshot of this podcast right now and put it

187
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 2: on your Instagram story tag the Daily Odds. We'd love

188
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,040
Speaker 2: to see it and give us your review. Tell us

189
00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:23,559
Speaker 2: what you thought of the pod. We'll be back again tomorrow.

190
00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:28,679
Speaker 2: Have a wonderful day.