Speaker 1: Life Uncut podcast acknowledges the traditional custodians of country throughout
Speaker 1: Australia and their connections to land, sea and community. We
Speaker 1: pay our respect to their elders past and present and
Speaker 1: extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander
Speaker 1: peoples today.
Speaker 2: This episode is recorded on Gaddigal Land of the Aurora Nation.
Speaker 2: Hi guys, and welcome back to another episode of Life Uncut.
Speaker 2: I'm Laura and I'm Brittany. And Brittany, well, we have
Speaker 2: a very very interesting episode for you guys today. There
Speaker 2: is something I wanted to ask you first, britt I
Speaker 2: don't know. I'm giggling like a nervous school.
Speaker 1: Girl because you always bring me with these like I've
Speaker 1: got something I want to know and I'm always like,
Speaker 1: I don't know where to go with it.
Speaker 2: Well, it's because it's got to do with dating. So
Speaker 2: I want your opinion.
Speaker 3: Is it what not to do? Because I can tell
Speaker 3: you that.
Speaker 2: You're like, I've got ten years of experience of what
Speaker 2: not to do with dating? Always too fucking soon, don't
Speaker 2: ask me how to do it. No, I was having
Speaker 2: this conversation on the weekend, who needed some dating advice,
Speaker 2: and I gave my dating advice, to which she told
Speaker 2: me it was fucking wrong.
Speaker 4: So that's why.
Speaker 1: So she asked you for the advice. You gave your
Speaker 1: best response. Then she was like thank you.
Speaker 2: Now she looked at me like you have clearly been
Speaker 2: out of the dating game for so long that you
Speaker 2: can you phone a friend?
Speaker 3: Can your phone break? Your advice is irrelevant? What was it?
Speaker 2: She's been dating someone for about four weeks, right, casually
Speaker 2: dating but really likes them.
Speaker 3: How many times a week?
Speaker 2: What's the average? I think like two? Well it started
Speaker 2: off like one or two. Now it's gone up to
Speaker 2: about three times a week that they're seeing each other.
Speaker 3: Okay, maybe eleven times. I'm just trying. I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to get a hit around my head.
Speaker 2: Around eleven times they've had sex, Like things are progressing,
Speaker 2: she really likes him, but there has been no conversation
Speaker 2: about what they are. And she said, like, what is
Speaker 2: the appropriate time frame? Like how many weeks go past
Speaker 2: before you should bring up like what are we?
Speaker 1: Are?
Speaker 3: We exclusive? Where is this heading?
Speaker 2: And I was like, now one month, Like you are
Speaker 2: so deep in that that if you're feeling it already,
Speaker 2: you might as well, have the conversation, and she looked
Speaker 2: at me like I had been drinking the kool aid.
Speaker 1: I think this is very subjective because I'm going to
Speaker 1: say something and I can't believe I'm gonna say this.
Speaker 1: You gave me different advice recently, so I was I've
Speaker 1: dated one person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was because I didn't think you should date him.
Speaker 2: That was why the advice was, don't make it exclusive.
Speaker 2: It had nothing to do with time frame. It more
Speaker 2: had to do with situation I had.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let me say I had dated someone, only one person,
Speaker 1: you know, since my breakup, and we were only probably
Speaker 1: four weeks into very casually dating and he got the
Speaker 1: feels great.
Speaker 3: Laura was like, no, it's only been a month. It's
Speaker 3: too soon.
Speaker 1: I'm not feeling this. It's like it's all hectic. You
Speaker 1: got to play like not you got to play a
Speaker 1: cool but it's like too much, too soon. But if
Speaker 1: you loved him or the situation, you would have been
Speaker 1: exactly that. You would have said, yeah, a month's great,
Speaker 1: go for it, get into it. But it's because you
Speaker 1: didn't like us.
Speaker 2: No, okay, yes, on one hand, you have a point,
Speaker 2: but on the other hand, my thing is not so
Speaker 2: much about like making it exclusive. You don't have to
Speaker 2: at the one month mark be like, hey, are you
Speaker 2: my boyfriend? Are we going to be boyfriend and girlfriend?
Speaker 2: More so just around like what is this? What do
Speaker 2: you want out of this? And having like an if
Speaker 2: you haven't had that conversation by the month mark, what
Speaker 2: are you afraid of? Are you afraid that they're going
Speaker 2: to say I don't want anything. This is just super
Speaker 2: casual and it's not going anywhere, in which case you
Speaker 2: then would have to make the decision as to whether
Speaker 2: you want to keep seeing them or not. I think
Speaker 2: by the one month mark of like hanging out, going
Speaker 2: on a few dates, getting to know a person, if
Speaker 2: you want something that's exclusive, if you want it to
Speaker 2: go in that direction, then that's probably about the time
Speaker 2: that you have to like put on your big girl
Speaker 2: panties and say where do you think this is heading?
Speaker 2: Because I would like this to be a little bit
Speaker 2: less ambiguous.
Speaker 1: Yes, but I think it's I don't think there's a timeframe, Okay,
Speaker 1: and I really really don't And I know if this
Speaker 1: isn't the advice anyone needs, But when I was with Jordan,
Speaker 1: we said we loved each other after a month, like
Speaker 1: we were just obsessed. I have dated other people for
Speaker 1: six months. They've said to me, what are we And
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, it depends on the person, the vibe
Speaker 1: and what you guys want.
Speaker 3: Are you both in the same place?
Speaker 1: The only way she can know is surely, And in
Speaker 1: most of the situations there is a bit of a vibe,
Speaker 1: Like you know, you get a reading from the other
Speaker 1: person and what they're looking for. Are they still going
Speaker 1: out and haven't mentioned anything? Are they still on dating apps?
Speaker 1: You are one hundred percent entitled to ask what we
Speaker 1: are and if you want to, I encourage you to.
Speaker 1: You just have to be prepared for whatever the answer is, totally.
Speaker 2: And I think that that's the good thing though, right Like,
Speaker 2: even if it's an answer that you don't want, at
Speaker 2: least then you know what you're in for and you
Speaker 2: can make a decision. My reason for this is because like,
Speaker 2: you could spend a year seeing someone thinking that you're
Speaker 2: heading in the right direction and then them being turning
Speaker 2: around saying, no, we're just keeping it casual and keeping
Speaker 2: my options open until something better comes along. You could
Speaker 2: go so far down a situationship that you're entrenched in
Speaker 2: the situationship and then you only have yourself to blame
Speaker 2: because you didn't have the chat at four weeks. But
Speaker 2: I think it's also imperative that you do it in
Speaker 2: the right way. There's a big difference with being like, Yo,
Speaker 2: let's lock this shit down. I want to marry you
Speaker 2: for four kids, white picket fens, two dogs, four to
Speaker 2: Colie sheep dogs.
Speaker 3: Like there is a way.
Speaker 1: You can do it, be my boyfriend, yeah, or you
Speaker 1: can just say hey, can I just ask are you
Speaker 1: so we're on the same page?
Speaker 3: Are you still seeing other people? Do you want to
Speaker 3: see other people?
Speaker 1: I think it's just has to be in a really
Speaker 1: casual cloak your way, because it'll start the conbo. He's
Speaker 1: going to ask you back, then you're gonna say, well,
Speaker 1: to be honest, I haven't seen anyone. I don't really
Speaker 1: want to. I'm pretty invested to see where this goes form.
Speaker 1: That was a good one, said, to see where this
Speaker 1: goes is played cool girl vibes.
Speaker 3: No, just don't play psycho vibes. I'm not very cool,
Speaker 3: but I know how to knob his.
Speaker 2: I mean I did till Matt after a month of dating,
Speaker 2: whilst he was dating multiple other women that I loved him,
Speaker 2: even wanted to be with him for the rest of
Speaker 2: my life.
Speaker 3: So you know, sometimes it works out that way as well.
Speaker 1: I mean, that's a whole different httle of fish. That's
Speaker 1: a different world. But okay, good luck everyone that's in
Speaker 1: that situation. I do not envie you.
Speaker 2: We have some pretty big things we want to talk
Speaker 2: about in today's episode. Now, I kind of we didn't
Speaker 2: really know where to start with this, but I guess
Speaker 2: the first thing.
Speaker 3: Let's start with the first thing. It's always a good
Speaker 3: place to start. It's good to start at the beginning.
Speaker 2: We want to talk about Rebel Wilson, Rebel Wilson being
Speaker 2: Britney's very good friend, but also the fact that she
Speaker 2: made huge headlines over the weekend when she came out
Speaker 2: with her new relationship.
Speaker 3: So we're going to unpack that.
Speaker 2: We're also going to unpack some very interesting articles that
Speaker 2: came off the back of it, and we have.
Speaker 3: A lot of feelings about this.
Speaker 2: But then we're also going to get into today's big topic,
Speaker 2: which is around toxic masculinity. And we got the opportunity
Speaker 2: to interview Will McMahon, who some of you guys might
Speaker 2: know from Will and Woody. Last week Britain, I sat
Speaker 2: down with Will and we had a very vulnerable conversation
Speaker 2: where everybody cried.
Speaker 3: You may hell may not have seen it. That's okay
Speaker 3: if you didn't.
Speaker 2: If you didn't see it, you could all jump on
Speaker 2: Instagram because both of us crying is on Instagram at
Speaker 2: the moment. It's a conversation around vulnerability. But more importantly,
Speaker 2: we talked with Will around toxic masculinity and his experience
Speaker 2: with depression. That is something that we're going to get into.
Speaker 2: First break, Let's talk about Rebel Wilson.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I want to make it very clear here
Speaker 1: before we jump into this. Some of you may know,
Speaker 1: those of you that in you and don't know. Rebel
Speaker 1: is a really good friend of mine. We've been friends for.
Speaker 3: A while now.
Speaker 1: I love her, respect her. She's an incredible woman, and
Speaker 1: I don't want this to be a chat about Rebel.
Speaker 1: I want this to be a chat about what has
Speaker 1: happened off the back of Rebel's relationship announcement.
Speaker 3: Really want to drive that home.
Speaker 1: I feel like we'd be having this conversation regardless a
Speaker 1: few days ago on Friday, which whenever you're listening to
Speaker 1: this that was the tenth of June, Rebel came out
Speaker 1: and announced a beautiful new relationship. She's very happy, She's
Speaker 1: in love. She put a photo of her and her
Speaker 1: new partner, Ramona I on Instagram and she said, I
Speaker 1: thought I was searching for a Disney Prince.
Speaker 3: Maybe what I really needed all this time was a
Speaker 3: Neat princess. Hashtag love is love.
Speaker 1: I actually get emotional thinking about it because I'm just like,
Speaker 1: we love love. I love love love, and of course,
Speaker 1: of course being good friends with Rebel, this is something
Speaker 1: I've you know, I've got along the journey with her,
Speaker 1: and I've known.
Speaker 3: You crying, yeah, because I just think I just this.
Speaker 1: Made me really mad and upset, and I would have
Speaker 1: these feelings for anyone in this situation because it just
Speaker 1: must be really, really tough. And to see her post
Speaker 1: something just be like, you know what here I am.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy I'm in a stable, healthy, loving relationship
Speaker 1: makes me feel warm in ise.
Speaker 2: And I guess the thing is is that you personally
Speaker 2: have known, yes, that Rebel was in this relationship for
Speaker 2: a lot longer than just since Friday last week.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, like I said, I was
Speaker 1: there when they're not there physically, she's she's like, she's
Speaker 1: filled me in on the details from the get go.
Speaker 1: So what has happened is and what has made us mad?
Speaker 1: If nobody knows, we're going to explain what happened. She
Speaker 1: came out on Friday and everyone was so happy for
Speaker 1: her that when there was nothing negative written, then the
Speaker 1: Sydney Morning Herald released.
Speaker 3: An article that we want to talk to you about.
Speaker 2: And this is the main thing we want to talk about.
Speaker 2: Like we're very, very stoked for Rebel. We love love,
Speaker 2: but this is the thing that really made us fucking mad.
Speaker 1: It was on the eleventh of the sixth, so Rebel
Speaker 1: announced on the tenth. This article from the Cidney Morning
Speaker 1: Herald came out in the eleventh. The heading is Rebel
Speaker 1: starts spreading news of her relationship coming out Rebel style.
Speaker 3: Now, Laura tell.
Speaker 1: Us a little bit about why this is so problematic,
Speaker 1: because I am so mad, Like I would be mad
Speaker 1: reading this about anyone, but when it's a friend and
Speaker 1: someone you know as well, there's a level of respect
Speaker 1: and fierce protection for anyone in your life, family or friends.
Speaker 1: And I think when you see somebody be attacked on
Speaker 1: a private level, let alone a public level.
Speaker 3: It just I'm just I'm so infuriated.
Speaker 1: So I want you to explain it a little bit
Speaker 1: so I can just take a breeze.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So the article that was written, it's from a journalist
Speaker 2: named Andrew Hornery. It was published in the Sydney Morning Herald.
Speaker 2: As Britt said on the eleventh, and now what this
Speaker 2: article is essentially claiming is that the journalist Andrew knew
Speaker 2: that Rebel Wilson was in a same sex relationship. They
Speaker 2: actually contacted Rebel two days prior and had said, we
Speaker 2: know that you are in a relationship with Ramona Agruma.
Speaker 2: We're giving you two days opportunity to give us a statement,
Speaker 2: you know, reply to this with your own comments because
Speaker 2: we're going to run a story. And what Rebel actually
Speaker 2: did is instead of giving her comments to the Sydney
Speaker 2: Morning Herald, who had reached out to her PR team,
Speaker 2: Rebel ended up going public with her relationship herself on Instagram,
Speaker 2: as we saw with the beautiful post that she put up. Now,
Speaker 2: this article that's been written by this journalist is all
Speaker 2: around the fact that he has but hurt. Basically that
Speaker 2: she took the opportunity she took the exclusive away from
Speaker 2: The Sydney Morning Herald, that they had done the research,
Speaker 2: that they had that scoop, and that instead of them
Speaker 2: being able to be the ones to release the news,
Speaker 2: she got in and did it first. This is one
Speaker 2: of the quotes from the actual article. It was an
Speaker 2: abundance of caution and respect that this media outlet emailed
Speaker 2: Rebel Wilson's representatives on Thursday morning, giving her two days
Speaker 2: to comment on her new relationship with a woman La
Speaker 2: leisureware designer Ramona Agruma before publishing a single word. Mister
Speaker 2: Hornery then argued that if he had outed the actress,
Speaker 2: it shouldn't have been a big deal, as sexual orientation
Speaker 2: is no longer something to be hidden even in Hollywood.
Speaker 2: The absolute irony of this article and also social media.
Speaker 2: Other news reporters are up in arms about this. But
Speaker 2: the irony is is that Andrew Hornery is saying that, look,
Speaker 2: you being in a same sex relationship shouldn't be a
Speaker 2: big deal, So why did you have to go ahead
Speaker 2: and take that exclusive away from us? But we all
Speaker 2: know that we don't live in a perfect world, and
Speaker 2: in this world, for some reason, when somebody has identified
Speaker 2: as heterosexual for such a long time and then they
Speaker 2: come out as a same sex or in a same
Speaker 2: sex relationship. That creates so much engagement, that gets so
Speaker 2: many clicks. That is a huge fucking headline for some reason,
Speaker 2: but it is, and headlines and engagement are a currency.
Speaker 3: He is very aware that he had what.
Speaker 2: Was potentially one of the biggest scoops of his career
Speaker 2: been taken off him, and this entire article is trying
Speaker 2: to claw back and say, hey, we knew about this
Speaker 2: first before she put out her own statement.
Speaker 1: Well, he described it as a big mistake of giving
Speaker 1: Rebel the opportunity to comment for the two days that
Speaker 1: he did. He said it was a big mistake, and
Speaker 1: he said she chose.
Speaker 3: To gazump the story. Now gazump, Well, who even are you, Andrew?
Speaker 3: For starters, I've.
Speaker 1: XuMP the story and choosing to come out herself on
Speaker 1: social media quote, her choice to ignore our discreet, genuine
Speaker 1: and honest queries was in our view, underwhelming. Now, Andrew,
Speaker 1: I have a view myself, you, sir, are underwhelming. In
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, fancy getting mad at somebody for choosing
Speaker 1: to tell their own story about their relationship on their
Speaker 1: own social media and you have the audacity, sir, to
Speaker 1: write an angry article saying, who do you think you
Speaker 1: are to have told your own story?
Speaker 2: Andrew Hornery, we are dedicating this episode to you. But also,
Speaker 2: can I just mention the word gazumbed, which I think
Speaker 2: we all had a giggle at when we first read it.
Speaker 4: I do.
Speaker 2: I also think that that attributes to just how archaic
Speaker 2: this journalist is, Like who uses the word gazumped in
Speaker 2: the first place. There is such a warped perspective as
Speaker 2: to who owns a story, and I think that's what
Speaker 2: Rebel has been robbed of. She took the opportunity to
Speaker 2: say she was essentially forced to come out with her
Speaker 2: own sexuality, and we don't know where she sits in
Speaker 2: terms of like, obviously she's in this loving relationship, but
Speaker 2: was she at a point in her life where she
Speaker 2: felt comfortable to talk about her sexuality? Was she at
Speaker 2: a point where she felt comfortable to share that? And
Speaker 2: she was essentially forced by a Sydney Morning Herald journalist
Speaker 2: who had a real gotcha moment to come out and
Speaker 2: share not only her relationship that she may not have
Speaker 2: been ready to share, but also the fact that she
Speaker 2: is in a same sex relationship, and that regardless of
Speaker 2: whether we're in twenty twenty two, regardless of whether that
Speaker 2: is well received, regardless of the general perception towards her relationship,
Speaker 2: it must be very hard to get to your own,
Speaker 2: in your own personal identity, to make that decision that.
Speaker 3: You're ready to share that with the world. And that's
Speaker 3: exactly right, Laura.
Speaker 1: It's not even this isn't I mean for me and
Speaker 1: hopefully for a lot of people, they see this as
Speaker 1: this isn't even being forced to come out. But it's
Speaker 1: also been forced us to talk about a relationship in general,
Speaker 1: even if it was a heterosexual relationship, it's irrelevant. Somebody
Speaker 1: stuck a knife in and twisted it and what do
Speaker 1: you do with that information? It's taken away from you.
Speaker 1: And of course, if you have two options, one some
Speaker 1: publication is going about you, or two you can take
Speaker 1: control yourself and be, you know, the one that tells
Speaker 1: the world your news. Of course you're going to.
Speaker 3: But that's exactly right.
Speaker 1: It was you've got forty eight hours, Oh we're going
Speaker 1: to do this, regardless, and to then have them be
Speaker 1: up in arms that you robbed them of that story
Speaker 1: when they were robbing you of something, so they're robbing
Speaker 1: you of privacy. Privacy respects a lot of things, So
Speaker 1: it's unbelievable. I actually read the article multiple times because
Speaker 1: I didn't believe it. I know, at the end of
Speaker 1: the day, Rebel is secure and she is in a
Speaker 1: loving relationship, and I know that she's very happy in
Speaker 1: that relationship. But she did come out with her own
Speaker 1: response in her own tweet, just saying, you know, it
Speaker 1: has been really hard and she's just trying to handle
Speaker 1: with as much grace as she can while literally the
Speaker 1: whole world watches on. This is what it is, and
Speaker 1: she is Can I say, I can commend her, but
Speaker 1: she is handling it with such grace and such humility
Speaker 1: to have been thrown into a situation that she might
Speaker 1: not have been ready to do. Well.
Speaker 2: We did a bit of deep diving as well, so
Speaker 2: Andrew Hornery, who was the journalist at this publication. As
Speaker 2: we mentioned now, he has written many entertainment news for
Speaker 2: The Sidney Morning Herald, and as much as he had
Speaker 2: written this, adding the same relationship should be a redundant concept.
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty two, love is love right. That is
Speaker 2: how he started off the entire article about Rebel Wilson. Now,
Speaker 2: in May fifteen of twenty twenty two, he wrote an
Speaker 2: article which was titled the man who helped Thorpe take
Speaker 2: his first steps out of the Closet.
Speaker 3: He also wrote an.
Speaker 2: Article in July nine of twenty twenty one which was
Speaker 2: I couldn't go on living a double life? Why conservative
Speaker 2: Michael Yabsley came out at sixty four. Now, this is
Speaker 2: a journalist who is very, very aware of how a
Speaker 2: heterosexual person in this celebrity limelight, who turns to being
Speaker 2: in a same sex relationship or who identifies as being gay,
Speaker 2: how that creates clicks. He has written multiple articles on this,
Speaker 2: so as much but he says in twenty twenty two
Speaker 2: exactly about that as much as he says it shouldn't
Speaker 2: be about it in twenty twenty two. He is acutely
Speaker 2: aware of how important this is as prime real estate
Speaker 2: entertainment news. And I think that is why people are
Speaker 2: so fucking pissed off because it was dressed up as oh,
Speaker 2: why did you have to take this exclusive from us?
Speaker 3: If it shouldn't matter that much.
Speaker 2: But at the end of the day, regardless of who
Speaker 2: someone is dating, their personal life should be able to
Speaker 2: be shared in whatever way they feel because it is
Speaker 2: their personal life, celebrity or not.
Speaker 1: The entitlement from this man and this article is astounding,
Speaker 1: and I think I think we've covered it all. I
Speaker 1: think we the world now knows our opinion. LAWA, I
Speaker 1: think I know where we stand on this.
Speaker 2: But also social media in general, like there are so
Speaker 2: many I mean, if you have a Google of this now,
Speaker 2: there are so many people who are up in arms
Speaker 2: about it. There are so many other journalists who have
Speaker 2: commented on this, there are tweets about it, and I
Speaker 2: think it's incredible to see that we are at a
Speaker 2: point in society where love truly is love. Rebel Wilson's
Speaker 2: relationship has been embraced with such positivity and real compassion
Speaker 2: from the general population. However, it's really disappointing to see
Speaker 2: just the way that the media perpetuates stories and continues
Speaker 2: to think that this is something that's scandalous, that's worthy
Speaker 2: of a news article. The other part of this is
Speaker 2: that we still are a society that is obsessed with labels.
Speaker 2: Whether we like it or not, we love to say
Speaker 2: this person's heterosexual. This person's now a lesbian, this person
Speaker 2: is in a bisexual relationship. Everything has to have a
Speaker 2: label because we struggle with ambiguity. And I think when
Speaker 2: you bring this back to Rebel as a person and now, like,
Speaker 2: I do not know Rebel at all. I know obviously
Speaker 2: you do, Britt, but it must be challenging spending forty
Speaker 2: years of your life identifying as being a heterosexual and
Speaker 2: then going, Okay, I have these feelings, I'm in this
Speaker 2: relationship now I'm really happy, but what does that make me?
Speaker 2: And having a publication trying to make assumptions as to
Speaker 2: the way that you identify, and I think, like, there
Speaker 2: is so many layers to this that go beyond just
Speaker 2: someone being in a relationship, because at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, if Rebel Wilson had been in a relationship
Speaker 2: with a not so famous man, this would not be
Speaker 2: headline news. We'd just see a small byline in one
Speaker 2: of like the E news articles which was like, hey,
Speaker 2: Rebel Wilson in relationship with like hot man. The only
Speaker 2: reason why her relationship was so headline news last time
Speaker 2: was because it was with a billionaire, and now it's
Speaker 2: headline news because it's with a woman, one hundred percent, Laura.
Speaker 3: That's entirely accurate.
Speaker 1: Everyone has their own journey in love and life and relationships,
Speaker 1: and of course Rebels obviously had to figure things out
Speaker 1: along the way. I'm not going to comment on that
Speaker 1: because that's not my place to comment on what she's
Speaker 1: been through in her discovery and things like that. But
Speaker 1: I can comment on things that Rebel has commented on herself,
Speaker 1: which is the fact that she has been looking for
Speaker 1: a love for a long time and she's finally found
Speaker 1: it now, and that's what the world should be celebrating.
Speaker 1: That she is fucking happy and secure. I wish that
Speaker 1: wasn't taken away from her, and I wish I wasn't
Speaker 1: forced upon her. But the other thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: add is we are in no way saying Andrew Hornery,
Speaker 1: the columnist, the guy that wrote this, the journalist. We
Speaker 1: are not saying that he's against her relationship and against
Speaker 1: gay relationships. That's not it, because I do think he's
Speaker 1: in support. Our problem comes with the fact that this
Speaker 1: was forced upon Rebel and b the way in which
Speaker 1: he chose to write about it. This is where the
Speaker 1: problem comes from. And even just in the article herself.
Speaker 1: It is steeped in subconscious negativity, and I think this
Speaker 1: is something that a lot of people might not realize
Speaker 1: when they're consuming media.
Speaker 3: I just want to.
Speaker 1: Read you one example of what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: In this article, where that he's talking about her new relationship,
Speaker 1: he says things like Rebel also used this same platform, Instagram,
Speaker 1: to brag about her past relationship with her billionaire boyfriend.
Speaker 3: Okay, the word brag.
Speaker 1: Rebel didn't use Instagram to brag about anything. Rebel used
Speaker 1: Instagram to do what people do as to post a
Speaker 1: photo of their life. She posted a photo of her boyfriend,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, she's bragging about it.
Speaker 3: It's really interesting.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a tactic that we see across
Speaker 2: so much media, how journalists will use really negative undercurrents
Speaker 2: in their wording which give you an impression of someone
Speaker 2: without even realizing it. If you read that article in
Speaker 2: your like this person was posting photos where they were
Speaker 2: bragging about their relationship, it instantly incites in you that
Speaker 2: they are superficial, or that they're entitled, or there's somebody
Speaker 2: that you wouldn't like. Whereas if they were to just
Speaker 2: write on the platform where they posted a photo of
Speaker 2: their boyfriend, which every single person does, you would have
Speaker 2: a very different impression. But because of the tone and
Speaker 2: the way that an article can be written, we are
Speaker 2: subconsciously conditioned to like someone or to dislike someone, and
Speaker 2: we see it a lot in the way that women
Speaker 2: are framed within media in general.
Speaker 3: Totally. And the word gloated is in here as well.
Speaker 1: Her friend who set them up, he Sheridan, he had
Speaker 1: spoken about setting them up, and all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: he's gloating about it. So where Rebel's gazumping it, she's bragging.
Speaker 1: Her friends are gloating. This is allly in this one
Speaker 1: tiny article. So when you're consuming this media and this
Speaker 1: is everyone reading it, when you're consuming it, all is subconsciously.
Speaker 1: All these words are like hounding into the back of
Speaker 1: your head and you're like, and you walk away from
Speaker 1: that in a different way if you read that article
Speaker 1: saying spreads the love about this new relationship. So it's
Speaker 1: something to be conscious of as well when everyone is
Speaker 1: consuming media. And I could talk about this for a
Speaker 1: long time, but I think that's enough of that chat.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to Rebel. We love that she's happy, and in love.
Speaker 1: We love to see it.
Speaker 2: So I think I think that's all we need to
Speaker 2: say on the topic, and we'll put down our pitchforks
Speaker 2: to Andrew Hornery.
Speaker 1: Put down, lay them down, everybody, Everyone go look your
Speaker 1: best life.
Speaker 3: Alrighty, I am jumping on.
Speaker 2: Here very quickly because there is some more information to
Speaker 2: the story. Things have happened since we finished recording. Now,
Speaker 2: Britta and I we recorded this discussion about Rebel Wilson,
Speaker 2: about the article and about Andrew Hornery and her being
Speaker 2: forced into coming out about her relationship potentially before she
Speaker 2: was ready to because of this forty eight hour deadline
Speaker 2: that was put on her by the gossip columnist. Now,
Speaker 2: Andrew Hornery has just come out with an apology, and
Speaker 2: that came out at one o'clock today. We think it
Speaker 2: would be remiss of us to put out this podcast
Speaker 2: episode without at.
Speaker 3: Least acknowledging this apology.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: The apology was also published in the Sydney Morning Herald
Speaker 2: and it was titled I made mistakes over Rebel Wilson
Speaker 2: and will learn from them. In the apology, Hornery attempts
Speaker 2: to explain why he wrote the article that he wrote.
Speaker 2: He attempts to explain why he originally gave Rebel Wilson
Speaker 2: a forty eight hour deadline to comment on her relationship,
Speaker 2: but he also says this, I genuinely regret that Rebel
Speaker 2: has found this hard. That was never my intention, but
Speaker 2: I see she has handled it with extraordinary grace. As
Speaker 2: a gay man, I'm well aware of how deeply discrimination hurts.
Speaker 2: The last thing I would ever want to do is
Speaker 2: inflict that pain on someone else.
Speaker 3: Now, I really think it's important.
Speaker 2: Just because Andrew Hornery is part of the queer community
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that that gives him or anybody the right
Speaker 2: to make somebody else feel forced to talk about their
Speaker 2: sexuality before they're ready to themselves. It's not a get
Speaker 2: out of jail free card. He also goes on to
Speaker 2: say in this apology that the tone of his column
Speaker 2: on Saturday was also off.
Speaker 3: I got it wrong.
Speaker 2: I allowed my disappointment to cast a shadow over the
Speaker 2: piece that was not fair, and for that I apologize.
Speaker 2: Now we'll put a link to this article in the
Speaker 2: show notes as an apology. Unfortunately we can't put the
Speaker 2: original article in the show notes, as The Sydney Morning
Speaker 2: Herald is now removing it and replacing it with the
Speaker 2: apology article.
Speaker 3: However, if you guys do a.
Speaker 2: Google, there are loads of articles surrounding this. But what
Speaker 2: I wanted to say on this and before we move
Speaker 2: on to the next part of this whole episode, is
Speaker 2: that I think it's such.
Speaker 3: An important thing. It is Pride Month.
Speaker 2: It is so amazing to see so many other publications,
Speaker 2: so many other journalists, so many other entertainment journalists, gossip
Speaker 2: journalists commenting on this story and really holding this type
Speaker 2: of behavior accountable because it's twenty twenty two. Nobody should
Speaker 2: ever be forced to talk about their sexuality before they're
Speaker 2: ready to. And it truly doesn't matter how famous someone is,
Speaker 2: how many Instagram followers someone has, or how interested we
Speaker 2: are in someone's personal life. It's nobody's business what their
Speaker 2: sexual orientation is. And nobody should be fearful or have
Speaker 2: to come out because they're scared that their story is
Speaker 2: going to be told by the press or by the
Speaker 2: media before they're comfortable.
Speaker 3: Well, it is time.
Speaker 2: For us to get into our favorite part of every
Speaker 2: single episode, and that is accidentally unfiltered slash confessionals slash
Speaker 2: potentially when it's funny, whatever is coming into our lives
Speaker 2: I have an accidently unfiltered for today, or do you
Speaker 2: want to You were piercing yourself on the couch earlier.
Speaker 2: I know, but I always think that's really funny, and
Speaker 2: then you it doesn't land as well with your fucking Okay,
Speaker 2: I am going to go first, because.
Speaker 1: Mine's very innocent. It's got nothing to do with poop,
Speaker 1: nothing to do with sex.
Speaker 3: And I'm here for it. I probably won't enjoy it then, Okay.
Speaker 1: My partner accidentally broke one of my favorite bowls the
Speaker 1: other day, No hard feelings. It was an accident. Still annoying, yes,
Speaker 1: but it was one of my favorites. I finally got
Speaker 1: around to going out getting some super glue and gluing
Speaker 1: it back together because I just wasn't ready to let
Speaker 1: it go. I left the bowl on the bench top
Speaker 1: to let it set and dry. This morning, I was
Speaker 1: tidy in the kitchen and I went to put the
Speaker 1: bowl away.
Speaker 3: It wouldn't move.
Speaker 1: This super click seems to have seeped out of the
Speaker 1: cracks in the bowl, and now the bowl is super
Speaker 1: click the kitchen.
Speaker 2: That's so fucking annoying. You don't know what to do,
Speaker 2: so I've just left it there. My partner hasn't noticed
Speaker 2: yet because you never cleaned shit up.
Speaker 1: It's been two days. It's only a matter of time
Speaker 1: until he goes to move it or put it away.
Speaker 1: He realized that the bowl is.
Speaker 3: Now a part of the kitchen freasure. That's a good thing,
Speaker 3: that it's your favorite.
Speaker 2: It's going to be there forever now on prime possy,
Speaker 2: right there on the kitchen base.
Speaker 1: But a moment that you got to put it away,
Speaker 1: that moment of realization were you're like, oh fuck, this
Speaker 1: is stuck.
Speaker 2: In the middle of you also, can't take it off.
Speaker 2: It's going to damage the bench, I reckon. You just
Speaker 2: get yourself a kitchen stool. Park it right there, and
Speaker 2: that's where you eat breakfast from now Cereal every day
Speaker 2: in the safe spot. Okay, that was very grated. It was,
Speaker 2: But I love a g rated one. Mine is less jeep.
Speaker 3: Oh, actually no, it's it's g rated.
Speaker 2: This is very g rated G plus. There's no sex
Speaker 2: at all. There's no sex, no scandal.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 2: I'm on a day trip with my boyfriend and we
Speaker 2: were in a cute homeware store down the coast. I
Speaker 2: was standing there looking at some knickknacks and I felt
Speaker 2: my boyfriend walk over and stand next to me. I
Speaker 2: was just telling him how much I needed to go
Speaker 2: to the bathroom. So not only did I tell him
Speaker 2: how much I needed to go to the bathroom, I
Speaker 2: grabbed his arm and I gave him a cuddle, and.
Speaker 3: Then I whispered into his ear. I really need to be.
Speaker 2: The shock I got when a random man turned around
Speaker 2: and said, oh, do you and his girlfriend was standing
Speaker 2: on the other side of him. I quickly grabbed my
Speaker 2: actual boyfriend and hurried out of the store, whilst almost
Speaker 2: pissing myself with laughter. And because you needed to physically
Speaker 2: go to the toilet, bless, I think that's great.
Speaker 3: I'm here for this. I love the innocent.
Speaker 1: Accidentally, I need to be well, it's better then I've
Speaker 1: got diarrheom about to shop myself.
Speaker 3: Imagine if she's had that. That was really graphic.
Speaker 2: When was the last time you grabbed a love interest
Speaker 2: and said, I've got diarrhea and I need to shoot myself.
Speaker 3: Last time we had diary, Well.
Speaker 2: I haven't had a lot of interest in a while,
Speaker 2: so that answers negligent, But diarrhea actually was more recent.
Speaker 3: Please don't all right? Well, on that note, let's get
Speaker 3: into toxic masculinity.
Speaker 1: So today we are talking about toxic masculinity slash mental
Speaker 1: health slash the fact that last week Laura and myself
Speaker 1: and Will.
Speaker 3: And Woody had a lunch. We all cried, we all
Speaker 3: had a breakdown.
Speaker 1: We all talked about like deepest darkest feeling.
Speaker 2: Did we have a breakdown or did we have a
Speaker 2: breakthrough both?
Speaker 3: Yes, one preceded the other. Now this was we did
Speaker 3: think that was actually was really quite special.
Speaker 2: So Will and Woody if you guys don't know who
Speaker 2: they are, they are a radio duo on KISSFM.
Speaker 3: Very very popular radio duo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they're two men who have opened upper space
Speaker 2: to talk about mental health. They are also both on
Speaker 2: Celebrity Apprentice at the moment, so they get in a
Speaker 2: lot of air time. But I guess the thing that's
Speaker 2: so unique about them is that traditionally radio you don't
Speaker 2: really think about men talking about their feelings.
Speaker 3: It's not really the space for it. It's a space
Speaker 3: for shot like jocks.
Speaker 2: It's the space for inappropriate sexual fucking innuendos. It's not
Speaker 2: really the space for two men to cry. Now, this
Speaker 2: thing that Britain, I did this share my food concept.
Speaker 2: It's something that you guys can roll out in your
Speaker 2: own home if you want to do it. It's all
Speaker 2: about sitting down with the people that you're closest, with
Speaker 2: the people that you love, and having a conversation that
Speaker 2: goes beyond just the hey, how you're going. It's asking
Speaker 2: questions that kind of really taps into the more vulnerable conversations.
Speaker 2: And let me tell you, if Britta and I can
Speaker 2: end up both in tears with cameras on us whilst
Speaker 2: recording what was essentially a podcast, you guys will be
Speaker 2: fine with opening up and crying in front of your
Speaker 2: closest nearests and dearest.
Speaker 1: It was literally the Bachelor all over again. It was
Speaker 1: it was food, crying questions. I was like, the cameras
Speaker 1: in our face. I was like, this is a bachelor again. No,
Speaker 1: but it was a really beautiful lunch.
Speaker 2: We were relative strangers having this conversations. And one of
Speaker 2: the topics that we got onto when we were doing
Speaker 2: this lunch was toxic masculinity. And I know that this
Speaker 2: is not a new concept, so many of you probably
Speaker 2: already know what toxic masculinity is. But this month is
Speaker 2: actually men's mental health awareness month, and so we thought,
Speaker 2: what better times than have a conversation around toxic masculinity
Speaker 2: with someone who has been incredibly open and vulnerable about
Speaker 2: their experiences with depression and mental health and how toxic
Speaker 2: masculinity has affected them. So this interview that we're going
Speaker 2: to do today is with Will McMahon, and he talks
Speaker 2: about his own experience, but to also give you guys
Speaker 2: a bit more of an explanation around what toxic masculinity
Speaker 2: is in case you're not aware. It comes down to
Speaker 2: these real gender stereotypes, this sort of idea that boys
Speaker 2: will be boys, men are manly and masculine and don't
Speaker 2: have feelings and shouldn't talk about their feelings. Men don't cry,
Speaker 2: and men don't cry because it is weak and pathetic
Speaker 2: and emasculating to have feelings.
Speaker 3: Now we all know that that is absolutely not the case.
Speaker 2: That men have many feelings, they just haven't been given
Speaker 2: the same ability to talk about them as what women have.
Speaker 3: And now we have podcasts.
Speaker 2: We sit down with our girlfriends and talk about our relationships,
Speaker 2: We talk about love, we talk about the way that
Speaker 2: we feel in a really open way. Because because traditionally
Speaker 2: feminine and women in society, we're expected to be more
Speaker 2: in touch with our feelings and to be able to
Speaker 2: speak about our feelings openly. This doesn't subscribe to what
Speaker 2: is and what defines stereotypical masculinity. Now, this is like
Speaker 2: a really top level definition of it. And there are
Speaker 2: so many ways around how toxic masculinity impacts everyone. It
Speaker 2: doesn't just impact men, It impacts the LGBTQR community, It
Speaker 2: impacts women, It impacts literally every single person. And this
Speaker 2: is a really great quote that I think perfectly sums
Speaker 2: up what toxic masculinity is. It's written by a journalist
Speaker 2: named Jessica Keith, and she says, toxic masculinity is what
Speaker 2: you get when a bottle of unpasteurized, full fat maleness
Speaker 2: is left out on the counter to kurdle. It's what
Speaker 2: happens when traditional ideas of what it means to be
Speaker 2: a man, strong, violent, powerful, too tough to be bothered
Speaker 2: with pesky emotions are prioritized over pretty much everything else.
Speaker 2: It embraces violence and aggression as napru male traits and
Speaker 2: smugly excuses these behaviors when they harm others. It's the
Speaker 2: whole boys will be boys mentality toxic masculinity is so
Speaker 2: dominant in our culture that anyone who doesn't identify as
Speaker 2: a windmill, high fiving alpha male is bound to suffer.
Speaker 1: It's super important to note exactly what you just said, Laura,
Speaker 1: that toxic masculinity does affect everybody. This isn't a one
Speaker 1: size fits all, and there is a bit of a
Speaker 1: crossover with stuff that we have spoken about on the
Speaker 1: podcast before, things like weaponizing competence, rape culture, gas lighting,
Speaker 1: and we've covered these in episodes we've done surrounding domestic
Speaker 1: violence and coercive control. So we really do want to
Speaker 1: note that this is something that we realize affects everybody,
Speaker 1: and today we are covering it from a male perspective,
Speaker 1: but just so just as an example, like a very
Speaker 1: generalized example of what toxic masculinity is. It's like when
Speaker 1: you're back in the schoolyard as a teenager. I think
Speaker 1: back to your school years and I know this is
Speaker 1: a word I don't even use anymore, and I would
Speaker 1: never an insult, But when I was a teenager, the
Speaker 1: word that everyone would use, the slang that everyone would use,
Speaker 1: was when a guy had any kind of feeling or
Speaker 1: emotion or got upset about anything.
Speaker 3: It was don't be fucking pussy.
Speaker 1: That was the word every other boy used to say
Speaker 1: to them, Don't be a fucking pussy and.
Speaker 3: Back, and like you would just never ever say this.
Speaker 1: Now I'm going back and I don't want to tell
Speaker 1: you my age, but I'm going back fifteen twenty.
Speaker 3: But like it's pretty I'm pretty well.
Speaker 2: But we wouldn't use pussy to describe a woman, would
Speaker 2: You wouldn't say stop being a pussy to a girl
Speaker 2: who's crying about something.
Speaker 3: And that's why I think, like, obviously this.
Speaker 1: They're literally saying, they're relating them to a woman's vagina,
Speaker 1: Like that's what it is. It's saying you are so soft,
Speaker 1: you're like a woman's. Like when you think about the comment,
Speaker 1: it's so ridiculous, like what a stupid statement, But it
Speaker 1: had meaning to it, which was you're acting like a woman.
Speaker 1: The meaning behind you are being a fucking pussy is
Speaker 1: you were acting like a woman because only women would
Speaker 1: have feelings and cry totally.
Speaker 2: And I guess the other thing that this ties back
Speaker 2: into is when we actually sat down with Will and
Speaker 2: Woody and had these conversations over our share my food,
Speaker 2: another word that Woody used, which I was like, fuck,
Speaker 2: that is such a word that men would use to
Speaker 2: describe themselves negatively, but it's not really a word that
Speaker 2: I think that we would associate with women. So we
Speaker 2: had to do this experiment where basically, like we had
Speaker 2: to use a word to describe how we think other
Speaker 2: people see us, and Britta and I both chose like
Speaker 2: quite effeminate words that described us. And Woodie said he
Speaker 2: thinks that other people see him as a coward or cowardly,
Speaker 2: and I was like, wow, that is such a strong
Speaker 2: word to describe the way that you think people perceive
Speaker 2: you outside of yourself.
Speaker 3: But also I think like cowardly is such a.
Speaker 2: Word that we attribute to men, like that they haven't
Speaker 2: sort of shaped up to be a manly enough man,
Speaker 2: that that's what makes them cowardly. It's such a gendered
Speaker 2: word as well. I guess this idea with toxic masculinity
Speaker 2: is that really pigeonholes a very specific type of man,
Speaker 2: and that if you fall outside of that, then you're
Speaker 2: not a manly man, and so therefore you're not a
Speaker 2: man at all. Like it, it all comes down to
Speaker 2: how we view masculinity within society. And anything that deviates
Speaker 2: from that is not leveling up.
Speaker 3: And just on that before we wrap this up.
Speaker 1: It's funny that Woody use the word coward to describe
Speaker 1: himself because there's this huge misconception. And I did say
Speaker 1: this toward he, Actually I said it to both of them.
Speaker 1: It's this huge misconception that men think that if you cry,
Speaker 1: it's a turn off for a woman. If you have
Speaker 1: emotions and you speak about them and you feel things,
Speaker 1: it's a turn off and women don't want that. But
Speaker 1: the funny thing is, and I mean I can only
Speaker 1: speak for myself and a few friends i've spoken to
Speaker 1: this about generally women want men to have feelings. It's
Speaker 1: a turn on for me when a man can be
Speaker 1: open about how he feels and can be upset about
Speaker 1: something that's important to him or that's worrying him. For me,
Speaker 1: that's not a turn off. It's showing me that we
Speaker 1: can connect on a different level, and you're comfortable enough
Speaker 1: and open enough to sit in those feelings.
Speaker 3: So maybe by having these.
Speaker 1: Conversations and any men that are listening know that they
Speaker 1: can have these feelings and it's not putting women off
Speaker 1: like they think it might be. Well, I think that
Speaker 1: there's been a huge changing tide in terms of topsy masculinity.
Speaker 2: Like we said, this is not a new concept. It
Speaker 2: is something that's been discussed widely, and I do think
Speaker 2: that there are a lot more atypical manly men, I e.
Speaker 2: Jason Mamore, who was a big man mountain but who
Speaker 2: will talk about their feelings. I think that this is
Speaker 2: changing from the top down. But I think at the
Speaker 2: same time, it's people like Will McMahon who are being
Speaker 2: really open about their stories, being really open talking about depression,
Speaker 2: that are leading the way, and that it's the visibility
Speaker 2: that helps to destigmatize these conversations. So with that all said,
Speaker 2: let's get into the chat with Will.
Speaker 1: Well, thank you for coming today and welcome to Life Uncut.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Thanks Britt, pleasure to be here.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much, Laura.
Speaker 2: Now, we never start an episode without doing it the
Speaker 2: exact same way that we do it every week, and
Speaker 2: that is we want to know what is your most
Speaker 2: embarrassing story.
Speaker 4: So I had a bit of a think about this. Obviously,
Speaker 4: I tell silly, embarrassing stories about myself all the time,
Speaker 4: so I really didn't want to regurgitate something. But I
Speaker 4: had something pretty embarrassing slash very embarrassing that happened to
Speaker 4: me the other day. As you know, I just her
Speaker 4: a little baby girl.
Speaker 3: Congratulations, thank you very much.
Speaker 4: I promise this is not some lame parents' story. I'm
Speaker 4: trying to avoid them for as long as I possibly
Speaker 4: can and posting about my kids, but I'm finding that
Speaker 4: very hard. So this is before the baby arrived. Actually,
Speaker 4: we were trying to induce labor. I'm sure you guys
Speaker 4: would know that one of the great ways to induce
Speaker 4: labor is by having sex. So something I think, well,
Speaker 4: I don't know, maybe I'm making an assumption here, but
Speaker 4: I hope, well not that I hope maybe have either
Speaker 4: of you had sex with the pregnant woman before.
Speaker 2: I mean, I haven't been the pregnant woman that that
Speaker 2: has had sex with, so I know it from the
Speaker 2: other side.
Speaker 4: I'm not doubting that you've got the other perspective in this.
Speaker 3: I haven't been pregnant.
Speaker 2: When was the last time you had sex with the
Speaker 2: pregnant woman, Brandon last full moons?
Speaker 4: So, yeah, we're trying to bring on labor, and so yeah,
Speaker 4: we occasionally start having sex. But it's really like it's
Speaker 4: just a lot.
Speaker 2: Going on, Like logistically it's a bit harder, and also
Speaker 2: things just aren't quite the same when you're out nine
Speaker 2: months pregnant.
Speaker 3: But why logistically don't you just roll them on the side.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but there's still a bit and like a
Speaker 2: little human that kicks and there's like little alien inside.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so if the baby's like that's just rattling because
Speaker 4: you're obviously just thinking like are you knocking on the door?
Speaker 4: Are you not knocking on the door. And then there's
Speaker 4: just like the nipples are like the size of sauce
Speaker 4: but saucers. Like it's just a real it's just a
Speaker 4: hard thing to navigate. Anyway, while I'm navigating all of this,
Speaker 4: my girlfriend's mum who's staying with us at the time.
Speaker 4: She's staying with us at the moment while we're sort
Speaker 4: of like having the baby, et cetera. She walked in
Speaker 4: while this was going on, while you.
Speaker 1: Were knocking on the door. She knocked on the door,
Speaker 1: or she didn't knock on the door.
Speaker 4: While I was knocking exactly. It was just like this
Speaker 4: moment where and I don't know, like I'm I'm sure
Speaker 4: you guys have been walked in by your parents before,
Speaker 4: like or if you haven't, there's this thing that I'm
Speaker 4: sure everybody could listening right now can empathize with where
Speaker 4: they don't fucking leave, they linger. They do this thing
Speaker 4: where they just stand and like take it in and
Speaker 4: then kind of like just try and smooth it over with.
Speaker 4: Like previously, I've been walked in with my dad and
Speaker 4: he's like, oh, I'm just wondering what you bought for dinner,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, just fuck off. And she relied. We
Speaker 4: did exactly the same thing. She stood there and she
Speaker 4: just like stood there and she was just like looking
Speaker 4: at it and like, I it's not my mum's anyway.
Speaker 4: Sam eventually just like yells at her. She's like mom,
Speaker 4: get out, and she's like okay, sorry, sorry, sorry, and
Speaker 4: she like bustes away and she's really sweet.
Speaker 1: It was a very obvious will like we under the blankets,
Speaker 1: and you could have just like stayed really still and
Speaker 1: pretend it didn't happen.
Speaker 3: It was very obvious and out in the open what
Speaker 3: you were doing.
Speaker 4: Oh God, I don't know how graphic we can get here, but.
Speaker 3: Oh we can get graphic.
Speaker 2: But I'm getting the feeling it was pretty obvious, like
Speaker 2: he wasn't in there trying to find the head, but
Speaker 2: like we know it was graphic.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, it was like, well, yeah, she was
Speaker 4: on all fours and like.
Speaker 3: Like we're just trying out the birthing positions.
Speaker 4: Mark, I swear, Yeah that's right, that's right.
Speaker 3: Well that's your mother in law. I had it. Did
Speaker 3: that go down? Okay?
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, we just laughed about She just thought it
Speaker 4: was hilarious, like it was just a very funny thing.
Speaker 3: That is such an wow, an awkward situation.
Speaker 2: Will you are currently on Celebrity Apprentice and you're advocating
Speaker 2: Forgotcha for Life, which is a mental fitness foundation that
Speaker 2: speaks about toxic masculinity and how it can lead to
Speaker 2: mental health issues. Now, who do you think toxic masculinity
Speaker 2: affects and how have you experienced it in your own life?
Speaker 4: Okay, So I want to start by saying, I'm actually
Speaker 4: really fucking scared to talk about this, So thank you
Speaker 4: appreciate it. But you know, it's funny, like ironically, that
Speaker 4: is the issue with it, Isn't it that I was
Speaker 4: scared to come on here and talk about that. That
Speaker 4: is inherent in why we have such a problem with
Speaker 4: toxic masculinity because it's almost just like this word that
Speaker 4: guys hate to be branded with, guys hate to talk about,
Speaker 4: and it's just terrifying to even think that I could
Speaker 4: be labeled with it or I'm going to say something
Speaker 4: wrong about it. So I really want to stress before
Speaker 4: we go into it that there are obviously two sides
Speaker 4: to this whole concept of toxic masculinity, and that is
Speaker 4: how women perceive it and how they're affected by it,
Speaker 4: which I just don't want to talk on it all
Speaker 4: because I'm not a chick and I've got no fucking idea,
Speaker 4: and I don't want to try and pretend like anything
Speaker 4: that men go through can compensate for a lot of
Speaker 4: the really truly terrible things that men can do to
Speaker 4: women as a result of toxic masculinity. But I can
Speaker 4: talk about it from the perspective of a guy who
Speaker 4: got very depressed because of toxic masculinity, and basically, I
Speaker 4: don't think it was the reason that I got depressed,
Speaker 4: but I think it's one hundred percent exacerbated it, and
Speaker 4: I think it's the reason that a lot of guys
Speaker 4: struggle with being who they are really, I can only
Speaker 4: tell you where I've experienced it in my life and
Speaker 4: at what point I think it gets damaging for men.
Speaker 4: And I think that's an important point to make, is that,
Speaker 4: like when you think of the word toxic, toxic implies
Speaker 4: that something's poisonous, right. I think that when we think
Speaker 4: about toxic masculinity, we think about people wielding masculinity, you know,
Speaker 4: like it's something that they using to hurt other people,
Speaker 4: Whereas it's poisonous, so it's also damaging to the people
Speaker 4: who are wielding it. And that's what I think. There's
Speaker 4: this duality with it which is really interesting. And if
Speaker 4: we approach it as this thing which is like, don't
Speaker 4: get me wrong, needs to be squashed and shut down
Speaker 4: and eliminated as much as we can so it doesn't
Speaker 4: hurt others. We need to approach it, I think, for
Speaker 4: a long term goal through where it comes from, in
Speaker 4: order to stop it harming people who are the ones
Speaker 4: who are wielding it. And I think that's the really,
Speaker 4: really tough part about it, because the guys who are
Speaker 4: using it, the guys who are victims of it, will
Speaker 4: never want to admit that that's something that they are using.
Speaker 4: I wanted to give you an example of toxic masculinity
Speaker 4: in my life. So I went to an elite private
Speaker 4: boy school. And this is something that I haven't really
Speaker 4: spoken about on podcasts. I spoke about it on The
Speaker 4: Imperfect a while ago, but Hugh and I decided to
Speaker 4: delete it. And it's hilarious that we decided to delete
Speaker 4: it because we didn't want backlash. But I went to
Speaker 4: an elite private boy school. That's a place where, like
Speaker 4: you get taught to be a goal setter, you get
Speaker 4: taught how to achieve, you get taught ambition, you get taught.
Speaker 4: You walk into the hall there and like the honor
Speaker 4: boards are just filled with names of boys who were
Speaker 4: like cricket captain, footy captain. And I was like a
Speaker 4: drama nerd, and I was just a full on nerd
Speaker 4: like love, I love music and poetry and these are
Speaker 4: things that I could only admit well after I've left school,
Speaker 4: because I used to go to school and I wanted
Speaker 4: to be a part of it because that was the
Speaker 4: only thing that I knew. How that's the only lesson
Speaker 4: that I knew. And I remember being on trams leaving
Speaker 4: school where we used to do like gangbang chants about
Speaker 4: girls on the tram, like echoing each other's voices down
Speaker 4: tramps to the point where like naturally school girls would
Speaker 4: get off. And I look back on that and it's
Speaker 4: just like, who the fuck was I? What am I
Speaker 4: a part of? How did I get here? And the
Speaker 4: truth is that I wasn't taught. Young boys in those
Speaker 4: situations grow up to be often colossal dicks because they're
Speaker 4: not taught any other way with how to deal with society,
Speaker 4: with how to deal with life. They're grown up around boys,
Speaker 4: and you don't talk about your feelings, you don't talk
Speaker 4: about what you're weak at, you don't talk about what
Speaker 4: you've learned, you don't talk about how to you know,
Speaker 4: how to be nice to women. It's this dick swinging
Speaker 4: competition and that's the only thing, you know. It almost
Speaker 4: makes me sad in a lot of ways when I
Speaker 4: look at a lot of these boys, and I look
Speaker 4: at a lot of my friends, and like a lot
Speaker 4: of people who get slammed for being toxically masculine. And
Speaker 4: you know, people can rake me over the calls for this,
Speaker 4: but I have a degree of sympathy for people who
Speaker 4: get caught in the web of this machine, because unless
Speaker 4: you're ripped out of it by something like me, I
Speaker 4: was ripped out of it by depression, it's a pretty
Speaker 4: hard circuit to break.
Speaker 2: I think that as well, in that this idea that
Speaker 2: softness or feelings or being vulnerable, somehow we've tied that
Speaker 2: concept up with weakness. Somehow it's become that they coexist together.
Speaker 2: And like even just crying or showing like your feelings
Speaker 2: or not being this constant like achiever, resilient, the foundation
Speaker 2: for a family, like the men of the house, these
Speaker 2: sort of ideas that we've created anything less than that
Speaker 2: this softness is tied into an idea of failure.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent. One of the greatest lessons that I've
Speaker 4: learned through everything I've been through. The strongest people are
Speaker 4: the ones who figure out that your strength this through
Speaker 4: your softness, and that is a beautiful trait to cultivate.
Speaker 4: And it ties into something I told you I had
Speaker 4: a baby recently. Something I found really fascinating while we
Speaker 4: were having learning all about pregnancy is that oxytocin brings
Speaker 4: on contractions in pregnancy. Oxytocin's the love chemic makes you
Speaker 4: feel really good about yourself, like when you hug someone
Speaker 4: or when you fall in love, and oxytocin can't be
Speaker 4: released in the face of adrenaline, so like often women
Speaker 4: will stop having contractions as soon as they get to hospital,
Speaker 4: or like when something startles them or all these things,
Speaker 4: because their oxytocin just goes nuh, that's adrenaline. I'm out.
Speaker 4: It's exactly the same thing with this idea of toxic
Speaker 4: masculinity is that like boys don't get a chance to
Speaker 4: access their oxytocin, they don't get a chance to release oxytocin,
Speaker 4: So of course adrenaline's going to rule the rist and
Speaker 4: that's the only thing that they know.
Speaker 1: Well, you've been really open publicly about your battle with depression.
Speaker 1: How did you go about living your everyday life whilst
Speaker 1: you were struggling and not feeling as though you could
Speaker 1: talk about it? Because that must have been so hard.
Speaker 4: A lot of people say to me, I can't believe
Speaker 4: you do what you do or you did radio while
Speaker 4: you were depressed, Like that's a common thing, because when
Speaker 4: you are depressed, the last thing you want to do
Speaker 4: is do a comedy show with your friend. So I
Speaker 4: actually count myself as really really lucky, just incredibly fortunate
Speaker 4: that I was totally broken, but I had to go
Speaker 4: to work to do a fucking comedy show. Like I
Speaker 4: was lucky because most men who get depressed, most men
Speaker 4: who come up against something like this, go to work
Speaker 4: and they hide behind a piece of machinery or a
Speaker 4: photocopier or a computer, and they have the opportunity to
Speaker 4: continue to bury this stuff. Whereas I had to go
Speaker 4: to work. Given that I was young and dumb, I
Speaker 4: was spending all my money on drugs and alcohol on
Speaker 4: the weekend. When I was living in Perth. I didn't
Speaker 4: have any money, so I had to go to work.
Speaker 4: So I was like this Catch twenty two where like
Speaker 4: all the burrs and the drugs was just driving me under,
Speaker 4: but I had to keep working to afford it.
Speaker 3: A vicious cycle. Indeed, it was.
Speaker 4: A shocking setup. It was a death spiral. So I
Speaker 4: had to go to work, and then I get to
Speaker 4: work and it like beautifully. I did the show with
Speaker 4: my best friend and he was just like mate, but
Speaker 4: he didn't even need to say to me, this is
Speaker 4: just not tenable. We can't continue on like this. So
Speaker 4: I was kind of forced to go to a psych
Speaker 4: My old content director Todd Campbell, who was a beautiful
Speaker 4: man and I know he had his own demons as well.
Speaker 4: He walked me down to the GP and he was like, mate,
Speaker 4: we're just going to get you looked at hilariously. I
Speaker 4: went into a GP. She gave me a box of
Speaker 4: antidepressants and said, this will sort you. And then I
Speaker 4: got kicked out, which is really funny in hindsight.
Speaker 3: Isn't that ridiculous?
Speaker 4: Extraordinary? But then we worked through it and I started
Speaker 4: learning about all these ideas of masculinity and like how
Speaker 4: I felt like I needed to be someone that I
Speaker 4: wasn't and I feel like we all kind of feel
Speaker 4: that with our genders, right. That's why it's so cool
Speaker 4: these days we talk about gender fluidity because everyonem with
Speaker 4: their gender. You feel like a bit of a square
Speaker 4: peg in a round hole, Like you're a woman, but
Speaker 4: like there's still this image floating around somewhere in your
Speaker 4: subconsciousness about what the archetypal woman is, and you're still
Speaker 4: not quite there.
Speaker 2: Matt and I have had these conversations, but not just
Speaker 2: in terms of like gender identity roles, but in terms
Speaker 2: of parenting roles, like I have a village of other
Speaker 2: mothers around me who talk about what it is to
Speaker 2: have an identify you of being a mother, what it
Speaker 2: means to go through losing my identity and refinding my identity,
Speaker 2: and this huge transformative time which has been the last
Speaker 2: couple of years. And then I've spoken to Matt about
Speaker 2: the things that he struggled with, and he doesn't have
Speaker 2: that community. Dads don't get together and talk about how
Speaker 2: they feel about being a dad, how their lives have changed.
Speaker 2: He's like, not even just that side of things, but
Speaker 2: like we don't get together and talk about sleep routines,
Speaker 2: like that's what moms do. And I think these type
Speaker 2: of gender roles not only does it play into this
Speaker 2: idea of toxic masculinity, but it ties into everything around
Speaker 2: how we structure society and how we structure our roles
Speaker 2: in the home and what flow and effect that has.
Speaker 4: One hundred percent, As I said before, I'm really lucky.
Speaker 4: I'm really lucky that I had to address this stuff,
Speaker 4: and I'm lucky that I can talk about it with
Speaker 4: you and people always find it so refreshing. I find
Speaker 4: it hilarious that I, like, people find this so refreshing
Speaker 4: that I talk about this stuff candidly because this is
Speaker 4: now just second nature to me. But it would take
Speaker 4: a lot of my friends drinks and drinks and drinks
Speaker 4: and drinks and drinks to pull me aside and be like, yo, bro,
Speaker 4: you know that like depression stuff you've been talking about recently,
Speaker 4: Like you know, and we you know, we might get there,
Speaker 4: we might move past you know what multi we've got
Speaker 4: on tonight and like, I don't know whatever. That's a
Speaker 4: couple of like classic blokey topics, but they get thrown around.
Speaker 4: That's fine, that's banter. That's blokey banter. But what men
Speaker 4: need to develop is the capacity, as Gus Wallin says,
Speaker 4: to go beyond the banter, to move your friendship from
Speaker 4: an acquaintance to a friend. And if we can tie
Speaker 4: that back into toxic masculinity. The funny thing about dudes
Speaker 4: who because like it's not like these guys don't have emotions.
Speaker 4: They're fucking people, right, But the only emotion that toxic
Speaker 4: masculinity lets you have is anger. So a lot of
Speaker 4: the men that you meet who are the biggest dicks
Speaker 4: on the planet, who are just angry all the time,
Speaker 4: are really fucking upset, and it's them projecting that. And
Speaker 4: this is the worst part about toxic scunity is the
Speaker 4: victims of it. Yes, he's a victim, but as the
Speaker 4: other people around him who experienced the anger, who experienced that,
Speaker 4: as he projects on them all of his problems because
Speaker 4: he's never allowed himself to actually look at them, because
Speaker 4: society tells him that he can't look at them because
Speaker 4: he's not a man if he does.
Speaker 2: I think it so hugely ties into like this concept
Speaker 2: of vulnerability, and I know the word gets thrown around
Speaker 2: a lot. Vulnerability is so important to forming connections and relationships, right,
Speaker 2: It's like that factor that allows you to really understand
Speaker 2: who that person is. That vulnerability is almost like looking
Speaker 2: inside or having that keyhole to look through and go, oh,
Speaker 2: that is who you are. And I think with that
Speaker 2: comes a greater level of understanding. When was it or
Speaker 2: what shifted for you? Apart from understanding or finding out
Speaker 2: that you were depressed through going through like you know,
Speaker 2: the formal medical channels, what was it that changed for
Speaker 2: you in terms of being able to talk about your
Speaker 2: feelings ultimately.
Speaker 4: And I'll throw this back in with Woody and like
Speaker 4: what we had to do, We had to keep working together.
Speaker 4: You know, that was our job, and we liked our job.
Speaker 4: There was no getting around the fact that I was
Speaker 4: like really upset a lot, and I was really really glum,
Speaker 4: and I was like really glum. I had to try
Speaker 4: and explain to him what was going on. I had
Speaker 4: to try and explain to him why I was so upset.
Speaker 4: I was so depressed. One day, I couldn't get off
Speaker 4: my bed and Woody came around to my house. I
Speaker 4: was just in tears. I couldn't move. I don't know
Speaker 4: if you've been like this, sometimes you can get so
Speaker 4: depressed you can't move. Thankfully, I haven't been there for
Speaker 4: a long time, but I was just on my bed,
Speaker 4: like and the idea of walking to the bridge was
Speaker 4: like walking to China. It was just like everything was
Speaker 4: just heavy and yuck. And Woody came around and he
Speaker 4: was like he was trying to understand what was going on.
Speaker 4: Bless him. He came over and he was like, bro,
Speaker 4: I get it. You know, like this one day, I
Speaker 4: had a pimple on my ass and it was so
Speaker 4: fucking painful that I was pretty sure that I wasn't
Speaker 4: going to be able to sit down on a chair
Speaker 4: at school. So like I just stayed in bed for
Speaker 4: the whole day. I was like crying with laughter. But
Speaker 4: it was like this olive branch from someone who just
Speaker 4: didn't know what was going on, And it made me
Speaker 4: realize that he also didn't have the gears to understand
Speaker 4: what was going on here. And this is the reason
Speaker 4: that I think that we have an issue, we have
Speaker 4: a mental health crisis, is that I realized I was
Speaker 4: the one who was going to have to first show
Speaker 4: the vulnerability which was going to get him to open
Speaker 4: up too, so that our relationship could move beyond pimples
Speaker 4: on asses and girls and football and all of this stuff.
Speaker 4: And as two guys who went to a private school
Speaker 4: who that was our language, it was fucking terrifying. I
Speaker 4: was like, shit, how do I do this? But then
Speaker 4: I just started spilling. I started spilling about how insecure
Speaker 4: I felt, how invalid I felt, how awful I felt,
Speaker 4: how I thought I was never good enough, and like
Speaker 4: all of these things. From that moment on, and I
Speaker 4: would stress this to all guys who were scared about
Speaker 4: having this sort of a chat with their friends. Our
Speaker 4: relationship just exploded, like it just blossomed and blossomed and
Speaker 4: blossomed as you just got layers and layers and layers
Speaker 4: and layers and what you're talking about. I like to
Speaker 4: think of vulnerability as like a dissolving sort of an
Speaker 4: ointment if you like. It kind of just like works
Speaker 4: its way. It like just steadily unsheaths the layers which
Speaker 4: are protecting all the good stuff, because it feels like
Speaker 4: initially it's like, oh, this is the stuff that I
Speaker 4: would never share with anyone. But you can only gain
Speaker 4: from sharing things that feel insecure to you to others
Speaker 4: because that gives them a chance to be insecure too.
Speaker 4: Like if you roll around the world putting people in
Speaker 4: this position where they feel like you're perfect, they instantly
Speaker 4: go into this mode where they're like, Okay, well, well
Speaker 4: they've got it sorted out. So I'm not going to
Speaker 4: come out here and show them that I haven't got
Speaker 4: it sorted out, because then you know, that'll be terrifying.
Speaker 4: So as soon as you show anyone that you are
Speaker 4: fucked up, insecure, vulnerable, terrified, it transforms every relationship on
Speaker 4: the planet. I often do it with like big guests
Speaker 4: that we have on the show. I'll just be like
Speaker 4: they'll be like, hey, you going, I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 4: you know, and it might be something stupid like I
Speaker 4: stink like shit today, or like just something fun or
Speaker 4: small or just like a little bit and it's just
Speaker 4: a little cookie, like a little vulnerability cookie, and they're
Speaker 4: just like, oh cool, I can let my guard down.
Speaker 4: How nice. So that day, on that on my bed,
Speaker 4: that day was probably the first day that I remember
Speaker 4: really trying to tell someone what it felt like.
Speaker 1: I love that he compared you to a pimple on
Speaker 1: his ass in this most crucial moment in your relationship history.
Speaker 4: Oh isn't it amazing?
Speaker 3: For all the.
Speaker 1: Women we have obviously a very large female based audience,
Speaker 1: For all the women that are listening right now that
Speaker 1: have someone in their life, a brother, a father and uncle,
Speaker 1: a friend, someone in their life that they think could
Speaker 1: be struggling. They're not sure. Maybe it's like you in
Speaker 1: the early days. Maybe they don't know yet, but something
Speaker 1: doesn't seem right. Maybe they do know something's wrong completely.
Speaker 1: What is your advice on how they should approach the situation,
Speaker 1: coming from someone that's been there.
Speaker 4: So the first thing I'd say is, you know that
Speaker 4: Celebrity Apprenticeship episode where Iran a retreat on the you're
Speaker 4: in a child. And I was hanging out with all
Speaker 4: these guys who were super Marcho duds, Darren McMullin, Vince Colossimo,
Speaker 4: Benji Marshall, like people that I actually really looked up
Speaker 4: to and who were super macho men. And for the
Speaker 4: first two episodes of the season, you know, I were
Speaker 4: having a shit one because they were just big alpha males.
Speaker 4: And you know, I just told you all about this
Speaker 4: little soft cocoon that we'd created for each other, and
Speaker 4: we're very, very very vulnerable, and like we were kind
Speaker 4: of keeping up and this sort of stuff. But Benji
Speaker 4: asked us to this retreat episode and I did this
Speaker 4: meditation on your Inner Child, and it was the first
Speaker 4: time any one of us had been vulnerable or kind,
Speaker 4: just outwardly kind to each other, and they burst into tears,
Speaker 4: like they cut so much of that footage, Like I
Speaker 4: had to hold Darren for minutes. It was full on,
Speaker 4: and it was proof of the power of being compassionate
Speaker 4: with people like that. And I just you said, you've
Speaker 4: got lots of female listeners, and I just don't expect them,
Speaker 4: nor am I telling them to go and be nice
Speaker 4: to someone who's a fucking asshole to you, because I
Speaker 4: don't know the level of hurt they've caused you, and
Speaker 4: I don't know how much of a dick they really are.
Speaker 4: And maybe that's you don't need to is the other thing.
Speaker 4: I'd say, that's not your role. But if it's someone
Speaker 4: that you love, the expression kill them with kindness comes
Speaker 4: to mind. Getting through this vortex of masculinity, if you
Speaker 4: can be kind to that person, if you can show
Speaker 4: them compassion in the face of all their dickness, you
Speaker 4: will find the results are extraordinary. And it kind of
Speaker 4: comes back to what I was talking about before, about
Speaker 4: this idea of masculinity being poisonous and it hurting them too.
Speaker 4: And if I can use another analogy, do you guys
Speaker 4: know who Eddie Betts is? Okay, he's an AFL footballer,
Speaker 4: is like one of the best indigenous players of all time,
Speaker 4: and he was at this game and he got a
Speaker 4: racial slur from a little girl in the crowd. Naturally,
Speaker 4: he pointed her out and they went to go on
Speaker 4: a vict her from the ground and Eddie found out
Speaker 4: afterwards that they evicted her and like you know, cut
Speaker 4: her membership up or whatever they did with her, and
Speaker 4: He was like, what are you guys doing. You want
Speaker 4: to expel this girl, cut her membership up, torture, Like
Speaker 4: what do you think that's going to do to her?
Speaker 4: With racism? She's just going to think I'm a fucking
Speaker 4: dickhead and she's going to be an even worse racist
Speaker 4: than she ever was. So he was like, can we
Speaker 4: bring her in here? So they brought her in. He
Speaker 4: sat down with her, he spoke with her, explained to
Speaker 4: her how and why it hurt him. I'm not in
Speaker 4: a minority group. I'm a white, heterosexual guy. So for
Speaker 4: me to talk about anyone in a minority or in
Speaker 4: a position of feeling undermined by another majority group, let's say,
Speaker 4: is very high handed. And I really don't want to
Speaker 4: do that. But I look at that and I go,
Speaker 4: holy shit, that is the way to treat people who
Speaker 4: are wielding this level of if you can find the
Speaker 4: gear toxic masculinity or just masculinity in general, or anger,
Speaker 4: if you feel like they're expressing that, and I promise
Speaker 4: you the layers are there, like they're there, but it's
Speaker 4: just how to wade through them. If it's someone that
Speaker 4: you love and they're depressed. Two okay rule is my rule. First, okay,
Speaker 4: are you okay? Every guy on the planet's going to go, yeah, mate,
Speaker 4: what's for dinner? Are you okay? Wait for the classic yeah,
Speaker 4: I'm fine, what's for dinner? And then go no, no, no,
Speaker 4: are you okay? And then you stand a chance of
Speaker 4: getting somewhere.
Speaker 2: You're so right in saying that whenever you do ask
Speaker 2: somebody how are they, it's just our default response to say, yeah,
Speaker 2: I'm fine. Like nobody wants to admit or come out
Speaker 2: straight away that they're actually having problems or that they're
Speaker 2: struggling with something. What do you think needs to be
Speaker 2: done in order to help fix these issues that surround
Speaker 2: toxic masculinity? And do you think it's something that needs
Speaker 2: to happen on an individual level or something that we
Speaker 2: need to look at from a much broader scale.
Speaker 4: We talk about reactionary change, and then there's like cultural change,
Speaker 4: like actually from the ground up is the only way
Speaker 4: that this is going to slowly happen. And it really
Speaker 4: comes back to all of the stuff that we've been
Speaker 4: talking about about teaching boys that you're not in a
Speaker 4: race with blinkers on and you don't have to reach
Speaker 4: a finish line before everybody else. In fact, given that
Speaker 4: you've got the blinkers on, you're not seeing the fucking world.
Speaker 4: You're not enjoying it. Happiness isn't only achieved through success.
Speaker 4: You don't have to be the best and the quicker.
Speaker 4: You can learn that being vulnerable and being insecure makes
Speaker 4: you more accessible to others. That means that you will
Speaker 4: have a richer, far more fulfilling life where you're not
Speaker 4: this island where the only way you can communicate is
Speaker 4: through competing. If I could go up to myself as
Speaker 4: a teenager and encourage me to explore all the softer
Speaker 4: sides of myself and to be okay with that, I
Speaker 4: would probably have saved myself a lot of hurt. So
Speaker 4: I think that's I think that's really the key is
Speaker 4: trying to educate young boys by showing them, and that's
Speaker 4: what I'm trying to do as much as I can.
Speaker 1: I think that a big part of that is and
Speaker 1: this is why it's a little bit disappointing to hear
Speaker 1: you say so much of this was left on the
Speaker 1: cutting room floor or on celebi Apprentice, because I think
Speaker 1: a big part of this is televising this. You guys
Speaker 1: had a moment where a lot of in your words,
Speaker 1: big marcho masculine men broke down and we're very very
Speaker 1: upset and vulnerable, and there was a beautiful moment there
Speaker 1: that we know happened now thanks to you.
Speaker 3: Then we also know it was cut.
Speaker 1: That would have done wonders for so many young men, boys,
Speaker 1: teenagers to see that, to see that they're idols. Oh shit,
Speaker 1: like they cry too, they get upset too, they're talking
Speaker 1: about their feelings. I think that that makes me a
Speaker 1: bit upset that that happened. But again, it's just people
Speaker 1: like you going out and finding the good fight now
Speaker 1: and being very vulnerable and open and talking and sharing
Speaker 1: your story. And we can't thank you enough for coming
Speaker 1: on today to share your side and the things that
Speaker 1: you've been through and the work that you are doing
Speaker 1: to try and change the next generation.
Speaker 3: So big shout out.
Speaker 4: To you, Will, Thanks Brett, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Tell everyone where they can find you besides the radio.
Speaker 1: But don't listen to them, listen to like to Will
Speaker 1: and Wode, listen to.
Speaker 4: I try and keep a pretty low profile online, like
Speaker 4: I'm very much just Will and Woody. Socials is probably
Speaker 4: a good place to follow me if you're interested in
Speaker 4: following me. I did a podcast called share my Mood recently,
Speaker 4: which ended up in the share my Mood app, which
Speaker 4: we made last year, which was all about creating an
Speaker 4: app where people could talk without having to physically have conversations,
Speaker 4: because guys have confined conversations so hard, so we made
Speaker 4: an app where you can share how you're feeling in
Speaker 4: like three clicks on your phone. So if you want
Speaker 4: to learn how that worked, Share my Mood is the
Speaker 4: podcast as well, where I kind of like really go
Speaker 4: into this stuff and try and explore white such an
Speaker 4: issue and more importantly, how we can change it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well, thank you so much for jumping on
Speaker 2: and being a part of the pod and for exactly
Speaker 2: what Brits said, for giving the topic visibility, because I
Speaker 2: think that that, like above everything, is one of the
Speaker 2: most important parts of this conversation is just acknowledging that
Speaker 2: it's a very real topic, but also that the more
Speaker 2: that we talk about it, the more that we destigmatize it,
Speaker 2: and the more that you know, the next generation of
Speaker 2: boys or this generation of men who are feeling exactly
Speaker 2: the same way, it opens up that conversations in people's households,
Speaker 2: and it also arms women with a bit more information
Speaker 2: around how to have these conversations with the men in
Speaker 2: their lives.
Speaker 4: I hope. So, guys, thanks so much for having me
Speaker 4: kill them with kindness, kill them with kindness.
Speaker 3: It is time for our favorite part.
Speaker 2: Actually, shouldn't say that, because I always say accidentally unfiltered
Speaker 2: as our favorite part. Then I say, suck and sweet
Speaker 2: is our favorite part to me favorites. We never finish
Speaker 2: an episode without our suck and our sweet, our highlight
Speaker 2: and our low light of each and every single week.
Speaker 2: It's a nice thing for you guys to do at
Speaker 2: home too, with your family and your friends.
Speaker 1: Actually, funnily enough, Will and Woody played this game, but
Speaker 1: they called it something different and I was like, guys,
Speaker 1: we already trademarked it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's our suck and sweet. All right, Britt, what
Speaker 3: is your suck for the week? My suck is Last.
Speaker 1: Night, Delilah projectile vomited all over the floor.
Speaker 3: That's disgusting in rank and was medication.
Speaker 1: So it means I have to remedicate her again because
Speaker 1: it means that she didn't she didn't keep it down.
Speaker 3: So love that for me. It was really chunky too.
Speaker 3: It was if I really need to explain it for you,
Speaker 3: but good. I love to talk about the consistency of
Speaker 3: a dog vomit, but it wasn't. Remember the last time
Speaker 3: she vomited, Laura, we spoke about in the podcast. It
Speaker 3: looked like, no, I can't.
Speaker 1: Describe it, and it was it was in like my
Speaker 1: new deep rug. This was, Thank the Lord, this was
Speaker 1: on the floorboards. So it was absolutely fine.
Speaker 2: I can't overstate this. The last time I was here
Speaker 2: when Britz Dog did a vomit, she vomited into high pile,
Speaker 2: into like three centimeter high pile rug and I had
Speaker 2: to pick it out with my head on.
Speaker 1: You make that sound like I made you pick I
Speaker 1: didn't make you get on your hands and knees and
Speaker 1: clean up her vomit.
Speaker 4: I was.
Speaker 2: I wasn't gonna sit here in the room and just
Speaker 2: let you do it clean up around my feet?
Speaker 3: Was I Laura very much?
Speaker 1: She did get on a hands, knees, she did assist
Speaker 1: me in the vomit cleanup, and anyway, that was gross.
Speaker 1: My sweet for the week is Delilah, and I experienced
Speaker 1: the most insane sunset last night. I saw you in
Speaker 1: SCRAMed posts, which was like me on my romantic walk
Speaker 1: with my dog.
Speaker 3: It was tag lover's Love.
Speaker 1: It was so funny though everyone was The sunset over
Speaker 1: BONDI last night was you know how sometimes it just
Speaker 1: turns it on. It was incredible. There were dolphins, there
Speaker 1: were whales, the sun was the whole.
Speaker 3: Sky was orange. Was beautiful.
Speaker 1: At the top of his headland, I reckon. I was
Speaker 1: the only person there on my own. It was all
Speaker 1: these couples taking these photoshoots of each other, and then
Speaker 1: there was Delilah and I and someone was walking past
Speaker 1: and I was like.
Speaker 3: You might take a photo me and my dog. They
Speaker 3: didn't do a very good.
Speaker 1: Job, but everyone was doing in these couple photos, and
Speaker 1: Delilah and I were there like spooning into the sunset.
Speaker 3: It was beautiful, But how.
Speaker 2: Annoying is it when you ask a stranger to take
Speaker 2: a photo of you and then they take only one
Speaker 2: or two photos and their shit. I said, take the photo,
Speaker 2: take multiple photos until you get the photos.
Speaker 3: I never asked. I wouldn't. I was too awkward. But
Speaker 3: I was taking a selfie and someone just walked past
Speaker 3: and they're like, do you want me to take one faking.
Speaker 3: I was like, oh, okay, that's if that's not too
Speaker 3: much strong. It's our anniversary, you know, I didn't say
Speaker 3: that anyway. My sweet was the just a really beautiful sunset? Yeah,
Speaker 3: that was it.
Speaker 1: Something something so easy, normal and nice this week. But
Speaker 1: it was a very special moment.
Speaker 3: I love that. Thanks, that's beautiful. What's your son? My suck?
Speaker 1: Is that?
Speaker 3: I think Moley might have worms?
Speaker 1: Yeah, gets in the car today, she's like, so you
Speaker 1: guys might need to all take worm in tablet.
Speaker 3: No, do you know what?
Speaker 2: She doesn't have worms. She's just constipated. And that's really
Speaker 2: annoying as well.
Speaker 3: No, it's worse. I'd probably run the worm.
Speaker 2: I don't know. I feel at least worm is just
Speaker 2: one tablet and you're done. Constipated kid, Yeah, conservated kids.
Speaker 2: You gotta like all day, my tummy hurts, my bum hurts,
Speaker 2: and you're like, we just have some prune juice, starling.
Speaker 3: Hey might have to pull that poop out. How do
Speaker 3: you do that? Oh you have never had you can? Yeah,
Speaker 3: sometimes you have to pull a poop out.
Speaker 2: I am not doing that. I did not sign up
Speaker 2: for that level of parenting. We will go to the
Speaker 2: GP if it comes to that. She's been a bit sick.
Speaker 2: So that's my that's my suck. My sweet for the
Speaker 2: week is at a really nice weekend. I actually did
Speaker 2: some really lovely things. I went to a kid's concert.
Speaker 4: I did.
Speaker 1: I did see the dedication to the concerts diversity.
Speaker 3: I am your number one groupie in your sweet probably three. Yes,
Speaker 3: I'm like a fucking obsessed with them.
Speaker 2: Okay, it's Matt o'kine and I think he thinks I'm
Speaker 2: obsessed with him now and it needs to end. It's embarrassing,
Speaker 2: but uh yeah, I've got to I've got a rush
Speaker 2: on divers City. But it's because my kids are obsessed
Speaker 2: with them and it makes my life, Laura makes my
Speaker 2: life so much easier. Like, parents, please go and put
Speaker 2: it on. Secondly, I have a couple of sweets in
Speaker 2: the space of a week. It is my mom's birthday,
Speaker 2: my NaN's birthday, my Auntie's birthday, and Marley's birthday.
Speaker 3: Wow, it was a busy time.
Speaker 2: It is what happened nine months before now, like I
Speaker 2: don't even remember much. Well, apparently the TV was broken
Speaker 2: in all of our households, so we had like a
Speaker 2: little combined weekend birthday thing on Sunday, and my NaN's
Speaker 2: been in a nursing home for quite a while now,
Speaker 2: all through COVID.
Speaker 3: It was like quite a sad time for her about
Speaker 3: her dementia is very very bad.
Speaker 2: But we were able to bring her out of the
Speaker 2: nursing home for the day and spend some time with her.
Speaker 3: And even though she kept saying who are those two
Speaker 3: belonged to? And I was like, yeah, my children, Nan,
Speaker 3: it was still a really beautiful day.
Speaker 2: So you know, and I know that those moments are
Speaker 2: going to be few and far between with Nan, and yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just it was.
Speaker 3: It was beautiful.
Speaker 1: You hold onto those moments, fair, and you will there
Speaker 1: the moments you will keep forever. It was just a nice,
Speaker 1: normal lunch, but you'll remember it for a very long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and also just let my kids get to stools
Speaker 2: be with their great grandma.
Speaker 3: Like I know that she won't remember it, and I
Speaker 3: know that even.
Speaker 2: Molly and Laura won't remember it, but like we have
Speaker 2: those photos and yeah, it's a really special time. But anyway, guys,
Speaker 2: that is it from us, a big whopping episode and
Speaker 2: we'll be back on Thursday with Ask Uncut. If you
Speaker 2: have any questions to ask Uncut and you want to
Speaker 2: slide into the DMS that you can contact us at
Speaker 2: Life Uncut podcast. Send us your question just right ask
Speaker 2: uncut at the top and we will do our best
Speaker 2: to answer your question next week. This week Wednesday, Thursday,
Speaker 2: who even knows?
Speaker 1: In like Monday's time, not tomorrow With the next don't
Speaker 1: forget to tell you mum, to your dad, tell you dot,
Speaker 1: tell your friends, and share the love because we love love.
Speaker 4: He