Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week that might.
Speaker 2: Welcome back guys to TV Reload. As you may know,
Speaker 2: my name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast
Speaker 2: to get all the inside goss on the popular TV
Speaker 2: shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably,
Speaker 2: our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment,
Speaker 2: and yet very little is known about how our favorite
Speaker 2: shows get made. So each episode have been finding guests
Speaker 2: they want to dive just that little bit deeper into
Speaker 2: the shows they're currently making, so that you can hear
Speaker 2: all their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest
Speaker 2: names in Australian television. I want to thank you for
Speaker 2: downloading or subscribing to this podcast however you've found me.
Speaker 2: I love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave
Speaker 2: a review or a comment on your chosen podcast platform.
Speaker 2: On today's podcast, I have Michael Lucas, a multi award
Speaker 2: winning content creator, screenwriter and producer. He made his debut
Speaker 2: with the indie feature comedy Not Suitable for Children back
Speaker 2: in twenty twelve, and audiences would know a lot of
Speaker 2: his TV credits over the years. With Offspring Wentworth, Party Tricks,
Speaker 2: Five Bedrooms, and last year's critically acclaimed The Newsreader, which
Speaker 2: has its second series launching this week on the ABC.
Speaker 2: This is Michael's second time of the podcast and while
Speaker 2: this is a longer chat than most of my usuals,
Speaker 2: I honestly felt like I spoke to him for twenty minutes,
Speaker 2: not close to an hour. The first season of The
Speaker 2: Newsreader won an Actor for Best Drama Series, with two
Speaker 2: episodes written and co written by Michael nominated for Actors
Speaker 2: for Best Screenplay and Television clear to say that this
Speaker 2: second series has been eagerly anticipated and we are going
Speaker 2: to get a lot of really fun insights into the
Speaker 2: production of this new series. I will talk about The
Speaker 2: news Reader's popularity and how Michael has translated his love
Speaker 2: of the newsroom into a TV series which features real
Speaker 2: life events amongst the fictitious characters deliciously set in the eighties.
Speaker 2: Michael will share his ambition to bring back all the
Speaker 2: central characters to the Australian series, which would have been
Speaker 2: a huge challenge with Sam Reid and Anatov both being
Speaker 2: picked up for juicy roles. In Interview with The Vampire
Speaker 2: for Sam and the last of us for Anna. Along
Speaker 2: the way, we will unpack the show's ability to address homophobia, racism,
Speaker 2: and feminism in the eighties and how that now looks
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three. Plus, we will get plenty of
Speaker 2: exclusives from behind the scenes of The news Reader, which,
Speaker 2: as I mentioned, returns this Sunday night on the ABC,
Speaker 2: and you will be able to catch up on on
Speaker 2: ABC I view shortly after. Anyway, let's bring Michael into
Speaker 2: the podcast. And I loved this chat and I really
Speaker 2: hope you enjoy this very interesting episode of TV reload.
Speaker 2: How are you? Anyway you will?
Speaker 1: I'm good. I'm actually I'm jet lagged. I've just come
Speaker 1: back from overseas, but other than that, I'm good.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to ask you straight off the bat,
Speaker 2: how excited were you when you got asked all it
Speaker 2: was confirmed that you were getting a second series of
Speaker 2: The news Reader?
Speaker 1: Oh, hugely, massively, But this was actually one of those
Speaker 1: rare times where they got us developing the second season
Speaker 1: before the first season aired, so I was deep into it.
Speaker 1: There was part of me that was just relieved because
Speaker 1: I'd already done all this work. I already had like
Speaker 1: two episode scripts and everything, so I would have been
Speaker 1: really disappointed if we didn't get the second season by
Speaker 1: that stage.
Speaker 2: You know that happens to p Oh, it's.
Speaker 1: Happened to me. It's happened to me. Absolutely. I've been
Speaker 1: on shows where we've developed scripts for a future season
Speaker 1: and that I haven't gone with that, and so you
Speaker 1: just sort of have to have these sad little scripts
Speaker 1: sitting there that never get made, and you sit there
Speaker 1: thinking should we just give them to the cast so
Speaker 1: they can read it? Or is that be torture?
Speaker 2: But there would be torture, but you know who would
Speaker 2: really appreciate it, the fans. Can you tell me was
Speaker 2: one of those series Party Tricks?
Speaker 1: Yeah? No, totally, yes it was. That's the main one
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I have watched Party Tricks more times that first series
Speaker 2: than any other of your shows. And wow, I just
Speaker 2: am obsessed.
Speaker 1: Oh great, Oh that's so lovely you. I love it
Speaker 1: when people love Party Tricks just because you know it
Speaker 1: was It's never the one that people normally mention. It's
Speaker 1: always Offspring or Wentworth or Newsreader or five hundreds. But
Speaker 1: it has a special place in my heart. But there
Speaker 1: are three scripts sitting there for season two that never happened.
Speaker 2: You know, I often talk about this because a podcast
Speaker 2: about television, so you get it right. I often say
Speaker 2: to people when they're making their first series, whether they're writers, directors, cast,
Speaker 2: I say that, you know, all of the things can
Speaker 2: be perfect in a series and it may not go again.
Speaker 2: And when I think of one of the series, it's
Speaker 2: the most perfect in my mind that didn't go again
Speaker 2: and should help is that one.
Speaker 1: So ah. It was always a bit ambitious to think,
Speaker 1: let's do a political show on Channel ten, and I
Speaker 1: think it was. It's always weird factors. It also came
Speaker 1: straight after Offspring, and I remember people just wanted more
Speaker 1: Offspring at that point. And I still remember Mum and
Speaker 1: me I had a whole article saying, we don't want
Speaker 1: this political show, we just want Nina and I yeah,
Speaker 1: so I think we were swimming against the tipe. But
Speaker 1: I still love that. And it weirdly was picked up
Speaker 1: on by Acorn overseas in the middle of COVID and
Speaker 1: it had a little burst of life there, so you
Speaker 1: know it's still around.
Speaker 2: It gets a burst of life in my house.
Speaker 1: All that's so good.
Speaker 2: Even some of the ways in which you were using
Speaker 2: your writing and the storytelling of that show to tackle
Speaker 2: some of the topics. Still is very relevant today, so
Speaker 2: like there's still really fun to unpack.
Speaker 1: Oh and it got weirdly it kind of seemed to
Speaker 1: have all this strange resonance with the Trump Clinton election
Speaker 1: because it was well before that. But I remember it
Speaker 1: was about a TV star that gets parachuted into politics,
Speaker 1: going against a blonde establishment politician and beating her. Not
Speaker 1: that I mean Roger course is a very different proposition
Speaker 1: to Donald Trump, but worse than the funny parallels.
Speaker 2: Well, I just had him on the podcast. Maybe he's
Speaker 2: still listening, and.
Speaker 1: I heard I heard about the Traders.
Speaker 2: Yes, I was going to ask you. The thing about
Speaker 2: writing a show and hoping it goes again is securing
Speaker 2: the cast, securing it, making sure they come back. Had
Speaker 2: you worried that Sam might have run off with some
Speaker 2: vampires and not have been available.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, when we cast this, it was in the
Speaker 1: middle of COVID, in the first burst of it when
Speaker 1: we cast the first season, and so you know a
Speaker 1: lot of these people like Sam and like Anna, the
Speaker 1: only reason they were in Australia at all was because
Speaker 1: of COVID and it certainly wasn't Like, I don't think
Speaker 1: it's revealing too much to say, we didn't really have
Speaker 1: options on anyone, so we just had to hope that
Speaker 1: they loved the show and had a really great experience
Speaker 1: with it and would commit to coming back. And yeah,
Speaker 1: look it was I mean not just Sam, but Anna
Speaker 1: obviously got Last of Us, and Sam got Interview with
Speaker 1: the Vampire, which is massive, and Chia Hansen got Night
Speaker 1: Sky with Sissy SpaceX. It was like all our cast
Speaker 1: seemed to be getting this huge international shows. But yeah,
Speaker 1: thankfully they all jumped on straight away to come back.
Speaker 1: So you know, we were really delighted and again relieved
Speaker 1: because I would certainly had plotted for the entire En
Speaker 1: Song Well to come back before we had secured them.
Speaker 2: So would just have said that Sam ran off with
Speaker 2: you know, one of one of the makeup artists or
Speaker 2: something and rest him. Like, had you thought of a
Speaker 2: contingency play?
Speaker 1: I guess I sort of had. I mean I didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it though, because I was so invested
Speaker 1: in Dale, but I had thought that maybe you could
Speaker 1: do something tracking Anna's character, sort of becoming a foreign
Speaker 1: correspondent or something. She could be overseas. You know, I
Speaker 1: had that in the back of my mind. And funnily enough,
Speaker 1: Lisa Miller on News Breakfast has written an amazing book
Speaker 1: about being a foreign correspondent, and I was reading that
Speaker 1: as sort of inspiration if it happened, And now she's
Speaker 1: hosting a podcast about the Newsreader. So when I spoke
Speaker 1: to her for the first time, I said, you wouldn't
Speaker 1: read about it, but I've devoured your book. And if
Speaker 1: we didn't get Sam read, I had a whole version
Speaker 1: of the Newsreader that was Helen working internationally. But I'm
Speaker 1: sure that would have been an amazing and possibly expensive show.
Speaker 1: But I just wanted to continue the story with the
Speaker 1: characters that we had very much, and so yeah, it
Speaker 1: was wonderful that they all agreed to come back.
Speaker 2: Well, we're watching previewing the second series, and by the way,
Speaker 2: congratulations it is. It's even better than the first season,
Speaker 2: which I thought was impossible.
Speaker 1: Like, how many episodes have they given you?
Speaker 2: I'm up to episode five?
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, you're deep and I have your
Speaker 1: privileged your privileged because because I do know that ABC
Speaker 1: has kept a pretty like you must be very persuasive.
Speaker 2: Because I sleep I'm sleeping with the head of ABC.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm joking.
Speaker 1: I'm joking.
Speaker 2: Buttress always been on my bucket list, you know. No, yeah,
Speaker 2: I was going to say, so, we're up episode five
Speaker 2: and we're watching it, and my partner, he watches a
Speaker 2: lot of the shows that I'm previewing, and he said,
Speaker 2: about up to episode five, figures, do you know who
Speaker 2: Dale reminds me of? Dal kind of reminds me of
Speaker 2: like he could be a vampire. And I looked at
Speaker 2: him and I go, are you drunk? I was like,
Speaker 2: he's from Interview with the Vampire, the series we watched
Speaker 2: last year that you said was like one of the
Speaker 2: favorite shows you've ever seen. And he was like, yes, oh,
Speaker 2: he's just dropped.
Speaker 1: That makes sense to me. That makes sense to me
Speaker 1: because Sam is just so different. I mean, even though
Speaker 1: obviously you know it's still Sam. He looks the same,
Speaker 1: but you know, Dale and Lustat are just profoundly different
Speaker 1: characters and it's really amazing. I'm thrilled for him that
Speaker 1: he bounces between the two of them, because if you
Speaker 1: want to see an acting showcase, you just need to
Speaker 1: see him in one show. And yeah, he's almost unrecognizable
Speaker 1: in every way. His voice, the way he moves, the
Speaker 1: way holds himself. It's really shows what an incredible actor is.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I was gonna then ask you about what you think, well,
Speaker 2: what you thought of the interview with Vampire. But I
Speaker 2: feel like we got that there anyway.
Speaker 1: I know I was obsessed. Well, I loved that book
Speaker 1: when that whole series was when I was a kid.
Speaker 1: I mean I got into it first through the movie,
Speaker 1: the Tom Cruise movie, of course, and then hit the books.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean, Sam, you know, I think we
Speaker 1: were imposed on newsreader when he got that role, and
Speaker 1: I was beside myself. I was like emailing him and
Speaker 1: texting him, and needless to say, when he arrived back
Speaker 1: in the country after doing interview the Vampire, I just
Speaker 1: sat down and just grilled him.
Speaker 2: Did you ask him over for dinner? I'd be I'd
Speaker 2: step over the bounds of what's like a working relationship
Speaker 2: and be like, we need to go for a whine.
Speaker 2: You need to tell me everything that happened.
Speaker 1: No, no, yeah, no, I absolutely we went out for
Speaker 1: a wine. I mean, the good thing was he was
Speaker 1: very gracious about it, and also, you know, I guess
Speaker 1: it was fun for him to chat about it with
Speaker 1: someone who knows it so well. Yeah. Well, now, of
Speaker 1: course Emma Freeman, who directs Newsy that has directed some
Speaker 1: of the interview with the Vampire as well, and I
Speaker 1: have yet to see her since she has got back,
Speaker 1: but she knows I've already warned her. We're sitting down,
Speaker 1: You're telling me all the stories about it because I'm
Speaker 1: obsessed with I think they did such an amazing job
Speaker 1: with that shit, with the show.
Speaker 2: It was real believable. Now that you know what worked
Speaker 2: in series won, did that kind of shape how you
Speaker 2: would attack the second series?
Speaker 1: Yeah, although keep in mind that I started writing a
Speaker 1: second series before series one came out, which was interesting,
Speaker 1: so I didn't know how people were going to react
Speaker 1: to it, which is actually a really brilliant way to
Speaker 1: start because you just sort of talk about about it
Speaker 1: amongst the team and you just know what you thought
Speaker 1: the strengths of it were. But I think one of
Speaker 1: the weird things about that was that we introduced a
Speaker 1: lot of new characters in the second series, Like in
Speaker 1: the first episode, you suddenly hit with multiple new characters,
Speaker 1: and part of me wonders if I'd waited until it
Speaker 1: came out because people seem to like the ensemble as
Speaker 1: it was so much. I'm not sure that I would
Speaker 1: have been so gung ho introducing all these new characters.
Speaker 1: I mean, all of your existing ensemble is in there.
Speaker 1: But that was one thing that we went on with,
Speaker 1: and I'm really glad we did, because I mean, I
Speaker 1: think the story works really well with all the new characters.
Speaker 2: But well, you've set up these people to you know've
Speaker 2: got to go and jump new hurdles. And I think
Speaker 2: sometimes with writing, and you go back and look at
Speaker 2: some of the bigger iconic shows, you know they worry
Speaker 2: too much about standing outside the call four or the
Speaker 2: core five. You know, it's just storytelling, and well fact
Speaker 2: it just leads to so much more possibility once you've
Speaker 2: got other characters for them to bounce off, because they
Speaker 2: draw different things out of these people. We feel like
Speaker 2: we know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, And probably if I'd waited to start developing
Speaker 1: it till after season one had aired, I think I
Speaker 1: would have been in that position of thinking, maybe let's
Speaker 1: just stick with the core and let's not bring in
Speaker 1: let's not shake it up too much. But other than that,
Speaker 1: I just knew. I knew things like from the production
Speaker 1: of it, you know, big breaking news moments worked really well,
Speaker 1: and Emma Freeman had come up with this brilliant way
Speaker 1: of directing it where she sort of stages at like
Speaker 1: a big stage play, and so that influenced me, Like,
Speaker 1: we start with an election episode, and she ran all
Speaker 1: those scenes together and the cast learned everything so that
Speaker 1: they could get that kinetic pace happening with election night.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I knew all of that, and I knew
Speaker 1: it's sort of a show that's about change, So we
Speaker 1: just wanted to keep pushing the characters forward into new
Speaker 1: territory and not spin our wheels too much.
Speaker 2: Were the things that didn't fit into Series one that
Speaker 2: you were able to flesh out in series two. Is
Speaker 2: there anything that you had originally in the script that
Speaker 2: you were like, oh, well, let's move this into the
Speaker 2: next pant.
Speaker 1: Well, actually, when we first developed Series one in the
Speaker 1: early days, it was eight episodes and then became six,
Speaker 1: so there was a bit of leftover material. Prominently, I mean,
Speaker 1: Charles and Diana pop up in series two, and originally
Speaker 1: that was part of the architecture of series one.
Speaker 2: So iconic to the eighties, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, I mean, in the end, it was a
Speaker 1: bit weird that you didn't. I mean, Diana was just
Speaker 1: such a fixation in the eighties and she never even
Speaker 1: she was mentioned in series one, but you never saw her.
Speaker 1: I guess yes, I did sort of have a sense
Speaker 1: of kind of the developments in their personal life that
Speaker 1: in early stages I thought we might get to in
Speaker 1: series one, but we were chock full, and so they
Speaker 1: were definitely things that I wanted to explore. In series two.
Speaker 2: It felt like we got to be very close to
Speaker 2: Dale's sexuality and where that was going to go with
Speaker 2: a relationship. And you know, had there been episodes seven
Speaker 2: and eight in season one, you might have found a
Speaker 2: few more conclusions there were, I think stopping it where
Speaker 2: it was, and then coming into series two it feels
Speaker 2: like there's some more airport into that, so you can
Speaker 2: digest it in a different way, which I think is
Speaker 2: a huge luxury to have when you're a writer creator
Speaker 2: of something like this. I noticed when series one went
Speaker 2: to air a lot of people interpreted the last moments
Speaker 2: between them. He has a speech to Helen where he says,
Speaker 2: I have these feelings that won't go away, and neither
Speaker 2: were my feelings for you and it's tearing me apart.
Speaker 2: And I think people saw it as he's coming out
Speaker 2: and that's.
Speaker 1: The end of Dale and Helen. I think people percent
Speaker 1: that maybe because they just sort of, you know, there's
Speaker 1: a habit to think gay and not consider that it's
Speaker 1: clearly a speech that's sort of leaning more towards buy.
Speaker 1: But in our mind we imagined that absolutely they would
Speaker 1: be staying together, and now that they're honest with each other,
Speaker 1: they're also like a safe harbor for each other, and
Speaker 1: they'd be cleaning on tied. And I also felt like
Speaker 1: for the time being, it would take a while before
Speaker 1: their relationship gets tested because both of them were so
Speaker 1: ambitious and so work focused that they would just love
Speaker 1: working together and bouncing off each other. And so, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea that I had was maybe in about a
Speaker 1: year or so, something might happen or someone might come
Speaker 1: into their world that all of a sudden brings up
Speaker 1: the questions of what are we doing here, and what
Speaker 1: should we be with each other? And what you know,
Speaker 1: we know the public just sees as as this romantic
Speaker 1: couple and what is to get married? Should we get married,
Speaker 1: what should we should it be open, should it be
Speaker 1: all of those sort of things. I just really wanted
Speaker 1: to take my time with those questions.
Speaker 2: I felt that I thought that you might have been like, well,
Speaker 2: we can put a pin in that because necessarily, and
Speaker 2: this is what's really funny is we don't have a
Speaker 2: lot of storytelling about bisexual people, and so like, even
Speaker 2: addressing the fact that Dale might be bisexual still hasn't
Speaker 2: really been done properly in scripto drama that I've seen.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, But I mean again, also it's interesting as
Speaker 1: well because I don't think even that bisexual is not
Speaker 1: a word that Dale has access to. I think that
Speaker 1: at the time that he's in I think what's terrifying
Speaker 1: to him about his queerness is that he sort of
Speaker 1: feels like, if something happens with a man, then I
Speaker 1: can't go there because then it means I could never
Speaker 1: be with a woman like you know, from a Obviously,
Speaker 1: now we've hit a point where in you know, in
Speaker 1: certain parts of modern society you can be fluid about
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But that was not the case
Speaker 1: in the mid eighties and not the case for Dale,
Speaker 1: and he would never call himself bisexual. I don't think,
Speaker 1: I mean he would never call himself queer. He just
Speaker 1: doesn't even have a label for himself. He doesn't know
Speaker 1: who he is.
Speaker 2: Well, the starter's queer was negative, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well I always find it interesting with the show
Speaker 1: that I noticed this. You know, obviously, I'm sort of
Speaker 1: somewhat aware of fans that have taken to the show
Speaker 1: and the chatter around that, and I do notice that
Speaker 1: there has sort of ended up being these sort of
Speaker 1: people different camps, and that some people think, oh, Dale
Speaker 1: and Helen, they shouldn't be together. He should be, he
Speaker 1: should be often gay clubs and sleeping with men, and
Speaker 1: other people think, no, no, they' soulmates. They've got to
Speaker 1: stay together. And there's all of these and other people
Speaker 1: think they should stay together, but just in this polyamorous,
Speaker 1: sort of reloving way. And I kind of love that
Speaker 1: this one relationship has draws all these different reactions.
Speaker 2: But I think that's the beauty of what it is
Speaker 2: that you know, you're doing with this particular show. You're
Speaker 2: tackling race, sexuality, discrimination, feminism. There's so much that's going on.
Speaker 2: The whole show is laced with issues that I think
Speaker 2: is still being addressed in twenty twenty three, does that
Speaker 2: make you realize how far we've come or does it
Speaker 2: highlight how much we still need to do.
Speaker 1: It's kind of both in a weird way. I mean, definitely,
Speaker 1: you know, sexuality, that's a huge change since the mid eighties.
Speaker 1: I mean just looking at someone in Dale's position now,
Speaker 1: it is a really big change, There's no doubt about it.
Speaker 1: But you know, we also get into some First Nations
Speaker 1: issues in season two because we're dealing with the Bisentennial,
Speaker 1: and it was actually really startling just seeing how little
Speaker 1: change there really has, and of course we're at this
Speaker 1: point in history now where it's on the front page
Speaker 1: of all the newspapers again. I think it was fascinating
Speaker 1: going back in time and reading about the Bisentennial protests,
Speaker 1: and of course at the time that was one of
Speaker 1: the biggest protests Austraia's ever seen, and it was kind
Speaker 1: of electrifying, and there was this real sense amongst First
Speaker 1: Nations activists that this was a big moment in time
Speaker 1: and that you know, a page was turning and I'm
Speaker 1: not really sure that the page has turned that much.
Speaker 1: I mean, there was an apology and maybe there's been
Speaker 1: progress in some ways, but it was kind of shocking
Speaker 1: to see to go back and see how many of
Speaker 1: the same issues we're still grappling with today, and you know,
Speaker 1: in some ways relatively little progress. Some things that feels
Speaker 1: like there's been drastic progress, other things not. Other things
Speaker 1: in between, like certainly feminism and the role of women
Speaker 1: in the media and stuff like there had there's definitely
Speaker 1: been progress, but also sometimes you can definitely see that
Speaker 1: we haven't come quite as far as we like.
Speaker 2: I think, you know, mining for stories in how past
Speaker 2: in our history to me is always really fascinating for
Speaker 2: the comparison, you know, and I think that's what I mean,
Speaker 2: that's what this show does to me. I mean, apart
Speaker 2: from being very well acted and written and produced in
Speaker 2: all of that, it actually is saying something about Australian
Speaker 2: culture in a way that's really digestible and you know, entertaining,
Speaker 2: but also educational, I hope.
Speaker 1: So, I mean, we're really genuinely trying to reflect what
Speaker 1: our research tells, where it's not a sort of a
Speaker 1: hopefully it doesn't feel like a didactic show.
Speaker 2: No, it doesn't at all.
Speaker 1: It is interesting to go back and look at where
Speaker 1: we were and to look at it from multiple viewpoints,
Speaker 1: and you know, the characters and the show, you've got
Speaker 1: a real range of people that have different positions on
Speaker 1: different every different issue. And yeah, I love I love
Speaker 1: actually going back and reading the letters section of the
Speaker 1: newspaper and just seeing what the debates were back then,
Speaker 1: and we use the show to kind of bring that
Speaker 1: to life.
Speaker 2: What do you remember about the eighties, because we're about
Speaker 2: I think I said that before, we're around the same age.
Speaker 2: What with some of the historical events that you in
Speaker 2: your I guess you'd be the first ten years of
Speaker 2: your life. What does what stays in your mind that
Speaker 2: you still remember?
Speaker 1: Oh, well, it definitely. It's interesting actually because the further
Speaker 1: we go with the news reader, the clearer the memories get.
Speaker 1: Like it's amazing how much more I can remember of
Speaker 1: eighty seven and an eighty eight than I could remember
Speaker 1: ninety of eighty six and look for Bisontinna, I just
Speaker 1: really very clearly remember that. I can I remember the
Speaker 1: full TV coverage, I remember the concert with Kylie Minogan.
Speaker 1: I live in Newton John, I remember all the projects
Speaker 1: we had to do. I don't remember the protests, which
Speaker 1: is really telling.
Speaker 2: No, I don't either. That's that's really funny that you
Speaker 2: say that. But I mean that's kind of addressed in
Speaker 2: the show where you look at the way in which
Speaker 2: you know, not no spoiler, but they do talk about
Speaker 2: it how it's being addressed in mainstream media. One of
Speaker 2: the characters says, this isn't in the paper, you know,
Speaker 2: And I thought that was really telling because I had
Speaker 2: to go through my own back catalog of memories and
Speaker 2: I don't remember and I remember the first fleet, certainly
Speaker 2: remember that coin that we got at school. I certainly
Speaker 2: remember the Expo eighty eight song that you.
Speaker 1: Know, oh that's in this celebration of a nation. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: I mean we do a version of that, which is sorry,
Speaker 1: it's not that song, but we definitely are evoking that jingle.
Speaker 2: That seems to fit perfectly well that am Roscian is
Speaker 2: singing that song.
Speaker 1: Well. Funnily enough, when we were talking about the kinds
Speaker 1: of the sound we wanted, the composer that I was
Speaker 1: working with said we wanted a voice like Kate Sobranos,
Speaker 1: but we didn't actually want to get Kate Sobrano because
Speaker 1: she was around in the eighties and it would just
Speaker 1: be weird to see real life Kate Sobrano there hopefully
Speaker 1: you know, she might not want to do it and
Speaker 1: probaly couldn't afford her anyway. But I was like, I
Speaker 1: know someone who has that bluesy tone that you're looking for,
Speaker 1: and so yes, that's how she got into it. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that I mean the Bison tee And also for me
Speaker 1: because you're Melbourne as well, aren't you you're Yeah, the
Speaker 1: Hottle Street massacre as well was incredibly amorable for me.
Speaker 1: I even just the name Hoddle Street was just loaded
Speaker 1: with such an ominous sense after that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: just remember talking about it in primary school and it
Speaker 1: was so shocking and kind of unfathomable, and you know,
Speaker 1: they're just the thought that you'd be driving in your
Speaker 1: car and shots would start lasting through. So that has
Speaker 1: always been something. I lived near Hoddle Street and even
Speaker 1: now as an adult, I'm always so conscious of it.
Speaker 1: And the word is the names loaded with so much.
Speaker 1: So yeah, that was another really interesting one for all
Speaker 1: of us to go back and look at.
Speaker 2: Which is amazing for you to be able to write
Speaker 2: stories of characters around that time. That's where I was
Speaker 2: asking that question. I was thinking, you know, to remember
Speaker 2: these moments and then to put words into the mouth
Speaker 2: of these characters about how the processed that I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's something very fascinating about diae that for you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally. And also that one was particularly fascinating.
Speaker 1: Kim Hoe wrote that episode is another research absolute mega
Speaker 1: nerd like me. And the news coverage of that was
Speaker 1: really interesting because it was shockingly explicit, baffling to us.
Speaker 1: You would think that TV would be more violent now
Speaker 1: than it was then, but it was really startling how
Speaker 1: much of the aftermath they put on the news, and
Speaker 1: it was just a different culture and we sort of
Speaker 1: found out that back then. It was not long after
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War, and there were so many points in
Speaker 1: the Vietnam War where there was really explicit photos and
Speaker 1: footage that were taken and the journalists that got that
Speaker 1: out were celebrated as heroes because they were showing the
Speaker 1: truth and the reality of war and it changed the
Speaker 1: way the public thought of war. So there was still
Speaker 1: that mindset in journalism that even in a mass shooting,
Speaker 1: will just get that footage to air and with no warnings.
Speaker 1: And it was really like I had to warn everyone
Speaker 1: on the crew. We had the raw camera footage of
Speaker 1: the from the ABC archives and that's one thing that
Speaker 1: we've really news does not take that approach anymore, thankfully,
Speaker 1: and it was fascinat and to go back and just
Speaker 1: try and get in the mindset of why were they
Speaker 1: treating it like this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the grit in all of that and
Speaker 2: the reality of real life situations stops this particular series
Speaker 2: from being too soapy, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like, yeah, well, I mean it still is a pretty
Speaker 1: melodramatic show.
Speaker 2: Really, it's still a bit soap dish, don't worry, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: oh yeah.
Speaker 1: But also because you know, the director is so skilled
Speaker 1: and the cast are so amazing, so they can absolutely
Speaker 1: take that big dramatic moments and make it feel gritty
Speaker 1: and truthful even when you know, even when it's a
Speaker 1: it's a twist worthy, if worthy of so proper.
Speaker 2: I mean apart from m being there, which I thought
Speaker 2: was great, so we talked about that, but I also
Speaker 2: thought he's got a few of his friends. Jane Harber's
Speaker 2: in there, and her role is so funny, Like I
Speaker 2: think if Jane is very laugh out loud as a
Speaker 2: person in general, and it's not really the characters that
Speaker 2: she always plays. She does some very serious roles, but
Speaker 2: she's so so funny. Was it rewarding to watch her
Speaker 2: lift that dialogue onto the screen because it just adam well.
Speaker 1: Some of it. There was one there's one memorable line
Speaker 1: that I'm sure you're thinking of that was a bit
Speaker 1: of banter that she worked up together with Anna that
Speaker 1: was not in the script, and it was very Jane Harbor. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that was the life. So Jane, you know, was played
Speaker 1: Nursara on Offspring and has become a really good friend
Speaker 1: of mine. And it took us a while. So in
Speaker 1: the in the show, she plays the wife of a
Speaker 1: variety show host who's played by this wonderful Irish actor
Speaker 1: Rory Fleckburne, who you know, it took a while to
Speaker 1: cast that character, and we knew he had this striking
Speaker 1: role as and that he would have this wife who
Speaker 1: was vivid in her own right. She really needed to
Speaker 1: have presence. And as soon as I was speaking to Rory,
Speaker 1: I just felt like he and Jane are going to
Speaker 1: get on like a house on fire. And they did. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they arrived. And also because Rory's musical and Jane is musical,
Speaker 1: she very rarely shows it on screen. She doesn't, you know,
Speaker 1: but I know that she's a great singer and pianist.
Speaker 1: And then as soon as they met, oh, it was
Speaker 1: like two musical theater kids that were out of their minds.
Speaker 1: And instantly they were planning to put in extra musical
Speaker 1: numbers in the show, which we scrambled to license music
Speaker 1: so we could get them having sing alongs. And I
Speaker 1: love them. I would happily watch a spin off show
Speaker 1: about those two characters absolutely.
Speaker 2: I mean, even that story itself about their relationship and
Speaker 2: their understanding. I don't want to walk into a spoiler,
Speaker 2: so I'm just going to try and dodge it. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just another taste of some amazing characters said in
Speaker 2: the eighties that are educating us in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean the idea behind his
Speaker 1: character was we wanted to bring in someone who was
Speaker 1: a big contrast to Dale, but who sort of represented
Speaker 1: represented a path Dale could go down both professionally and personally.
Speaker 2: You know, the story threaded through both of the seasons
Speaker 2: is Dale's homosexuality, and we do have a lot of
Speaker 2: LGBTI journalists who would have been closeted during that era,
Speaker 2: because you know, both of us are very nerdy and
Speaker 2: would know that from researching that time. You know a
Speaker 2: few things. Why do you think that we have a
Speaker 2: lot of queer people in the media. Do you think
Speaker 2: that there's any correlation in that?
Speaker 1: It's interesting. I mean, it feels like there's got to
Speaker 1: be some sort of correlation between queerness and creative creativity
Speaker 1: in some ways, because it feels like queer people are
Speaker 1: so overrepresented in creative fields and in media. I guess
Speaker 1: it's also to be honest, like the media and that
Speaker 1: level of media is difficult for people who have conventional
Speaker 1: family situations as well, like it's a really demanding schedule
Speaker 1: and you know, and often queer people aren't in those
Speaker 1: kind of conventional I mean, obviously, you know, there's all
Speaker 1: the whole broad spectrum, but just generality that might be
Speaker 1: part of the reason why. But I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's so much about quinness. Why is it that so
Speaker 1: many queen men love the pop divers I mean, I really,
Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm one of them, and I and
Speaker 1: but yeah, I know, I know exactly what you mean.
Speaker 1: There's an overrepresentation.
Speaker 2: I'm always thinking of But you know, I'm always thinking
Speaker 2: about it, and I'm I'm it sounds like I'm about
Speaker 2: to try and give you an explanation, and I'm not.
Speaker 2: I'm just adding some more you know, fodder theories, some
Speaker 2: more theories to it. I think that gay men relate
Speaker 2: to women because for our generation particularly, we grew up
Speaker 2: with women as the underdog and they became like our
Speaker 2: superheroes for gay men. You know, they could tread the
Speaker 2: boards in places that we certainly didn't feel like we could,
Speaker 2: and they got to do it with big hair, makeup
Speaker 2: and great dresses, you know, totally, and I felt like
Speaker 2: that's their armor. So I felt like that's there. But
Speaker 2: it's again, it's like, you know, there's so many different
Speaker 2: theories about validation and redemption and the ability to do
Speaker 2: a good job of telling a story and captivating audio.
Speaker 2: I think so much of you growing up as a
Speaker 2: queer person is feeling silenced. So maybe there's a power,
Speaker 2: you know, within that's had to be that's been yearned
Speaker 2: for and worked hard at, and you know, maybe there's
Speaker 2: something there in the storytelling of you know, a lot
Speaker 2: of our journalists who were very closeted during that time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And I mean it's interesting some people that
Speaker 1: worked in newsrooms, queer people that worked in newsrooms have
Speaker 1: ended up working on the show, And often I didn't
Speaker 1: even realize that they were queer until away into the process,
Speaker 1: which is interesting. So it does sort of feel like
Speaker 1: this production has drawn those sort of people understandably to it,
Speaker 1: which is really great because you know, I wander around
Speaker 1: saying to them, Okay, was the gay club you went
Speaker 1: to after work in the eighties? Give me names, give
Speaker 1: me specific names, And of course they all disagreed about
Speaker 1: which was the one that the cast would go to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was curious to ask you about you know,
Speaker 2: what does Dale's character look like in twenty twenty three?
Speaker 2: Are we still facing people presenting the news with you know,
Speaker 2: masculine archetypes. I mean, are we now seeing a difference?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I think I genuinely think we are. I think
Speaker 1: Dale in twenty twenty three. I mean, you know, look
Speaker 1: at Jeremy Fernandez and you know, I mean there's a
Speaker 1: number of out we're presenters looking at Real to Jacobs,
Speaker 1: and I feel like Dale would be having a wonderful
Speaker 1: time in twenty twenty three. And it's quite. It's tragic
Speaker 1: that he's stuck in nineteen eighty seven and he's been
Speaker 1: through a lot of trauma, and he's very ambitious, and yeah,
Speaker 1: I genuinely feel in my mind the Dale of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three would be in a much much better place.
Speaker 1: I think so.
Speaker 2: But then I also wonder whether or not a gay
Speaker 2: man in his position in this day and age, because
Speaker 2: he idolizes Helen Norvil, you know, his obsession with her.
Speaker 2: It's unknown really as to whether not it's even sexual really,
Speaker 2: And maybe he's using a for promotion, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, Like is in maybe he knows that he's
Speaker 2: going to get more work if he makes this thing work.
Speaker 1: Well, I think it can sort of be everything all
Speaker 1: at once. I mean that's how I look at it. Like.
Speaker 1: And I know people can look at Dale and Helen
Speaker 1: and go, oh, is it just are they just using
Speaker 1: each other? Is it a marriage of convenience or whatever?
Speaker 1: I sort of feel like, well, I mean, they really
Speaker 1: do love each other. I think on one level, I
Speaker 1: think it's probably fair to say that the driving force
Speaker 1: and their relationship is not necessarily the physical passion. But
Speaker 1: also I don't think it's without that, So it's a
Speaker 1: complicated thing, and then yeah, you can't extricate it from
Speaker 1: the fact it's also very professionally beneficial for them to
Speaker 1: be together. But I find, you know, in life, that
Speaker 1: all these motivations can come together at the same time,
Speaker 1: and I don't know that any one of them rules
Speaker 1: out any of any of the other ones. So yeah,
Speaker 1: but I hope that people watch it and keep guessing.
Speaker 2: Michael, you're supposed to know the answer to these questions.
Speaker 2: You're supposed to feel like you know that.
Speaker 1: Well, you know that. For me, it's like they're so
Speaker 1: they're so sort of real and multifaceted that it's like
Speaker 1: talking about you know, your very close family members, order
Speaker 1: you know them so well that yes, there's a really
Speaker 1: ambitious part of them, but there's also this tenderness and
Speaker 1: you know, and then there's a yearning for outside passion,
Speaker 1: but then there is also passion between them, so you know,
Speaker 1: I almost find it hard to sum them up.
Speaker 2: I have so much admiration for you in the sense
Speaker 2: of not necessarily knowing the answers to these things, still
Speaker 2: your own questions about these characters. I think that is
Speaker 2: quite amazing.
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, but also part of it. I mean,
Speaker 1: I genuinely feel like, you know, in terms of my
Speaker 1: own queenness and everything, I just didn't know who I
Speaker 1: was for the longest time. And I feel like Dale,
Speaker 1: you know, doesn't know who he is really. And also
Speaker 1: you could say I'm not conflating these two things. But
Speaker 1: Helen with her mental health, well, she clearly struggles with
Speaker 1: her mental health, but she doesn't have a label for it.
Speaker 1: She doesn't know what it is. She's sitting in this
Speaker 1: space where she can tell that there's a problem, but
Speaker 1: she doesn't certainly doesn't know how to treat it, and
Speaker 1: everything that's been done so far doesn't work. So I
Speaker 1: do think that the news reader with this particular show,
Speaker 1: there is this unknown all these mysteries about the characters,
Speaker 1: but their mysteries to the characters themselves. They don't know
Speaker 1: the answers to them, and they're living at a time
Speaker 1: where they can't get those answers. But I feel like
Speaker 1: it's probably more specific to this show. I mean other
Speaker 1: shows that I've worked on. You know, if you are
Speaker 1: asking me about like The Offspring Cast, I'll probably give
Speaker 1: you very direct answers about what I thought. But with
Speaker 1: Dale and Helen, they're really complicated, and not that the
Speaker 1: Offspring Casts weren't. Of course, they're really complicated, but there's
Speaker 1: a Yeah, they're stuck in a space of not quite
Speaker 1: knowing who they are, and that's what's interesting about them.
Speaker 1: I think often don't tell you what to think about
Speaker 1: a moment as much you you know, which is why
Speaker 1: I think people can have different perspectives on the characters.
Speaker 2: And why we're talking about it, you know, which I
Speaker 2: think is amazing. Like if I'm talking about it with you,
Speaker 2: a creator of this, and you're like, well, maybe it's this,
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's really fascinating.
Speaker 1: And I think I think I would say the same
Speaker 1: and Emma, like all of us that work on it
Speaker 1: and the other writers, you know, we would Yeah for us,
Speaker 1: they're just like, there's really multifaceted or broken, confused people
Speaker 1: that Yeah, they're not easy to sum.
Speaker 2: Up, do you think that, you know? I mean, Helen
Speaker 2: really has to fight tooth and nail in what she
Speaker 2: believes in. And there is a lot of Helen storming
Speaker 2: through the newsroom, you know, which is so funny because
Speaker 2: my partner and I have been walking around our apartment
Speaker 2: doing the Helen novel yeah, but there's a lot of
Speaker 2: that in season two. But do you reckon that kind
Speaker 2: of fighting is still happening in newsrooms the way that
Speaker 2: it did in the eighties.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, I'm sure people are still very passionately
Speaker 1: advocating for things, and I'm sure things get heated. I
Speaker 1: would like to think that we're not still in that
Speaker 1: stage of the crazy yelling and that people aren't like
Speaker 1: bosses like William mcinness's character anymore. I do, you know,
Speaker 1: And that's just general more ahiness, more of an awareness
Speaker 1: of that, and that seems to be reflected by you know,
Speaker 1: because I've spoken to a lot of journalists that have
Speaker 1: been in the media, you know, from the eighties or
Speaker 1: nineties until now, and they do talk about that change.
Speaker 1: I still think there's tensions, and there's deadlines, and there's
Speaker 1: people losing patients, but there is no by and large,
Speaker 1: there's a lot less of the screaming and door slamming
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. But it really was
Speaker 1: a feature of newsrooms back then. Everyone said the same
Speaker 1: thing that that's how it rolled. And I certainly know
Speaker 1: that commercial radio can be a hotbed for that sort
Speaker 1: of stuff, and maybe it stayed that way in commercial
Speaker 1: radio even longer than it did in TV newsroom, So
Speaker 1: that's my sense of it.
Speaker 2: Anyway, we have to talk about Mark Downey because she
Speaker 2: is so iconic in his role. It's just such a
Speaker 2: shock to men season one about how amazing she really is.
Speaker 2: She's such a brilliant actress. She's a very good comedian,
Speaker 2: which we've always known. I wanted to know what feedback
Speaker 2: did you get from her being in the season one
Speaker 2: and because she would have had a lot of time
Speaker 2: as a real person with people coming up to her
Speaker 2: and talking to her about how much of a bitch
Speaker 2: that lady saw they see unt but I by shopping center,
Speaker 2: she might come up to me and be very protective
Speaker 2: of this character. What kind of feedback did she give
Speaker 2: you between seasons?
Speaker 1: Oh, she's so gorgeous, And basically the feedback was just
Speaker 1: how much she enjoyed the experience, how much she loved
Speaker 1: the reaction. She definitely said that she was flooded with
Speaker 1: responses and that she very much enjoyed just so many
Speaker 1: people reaching out to her, you know, texting and everything
Speaker 1: like that. She loved it, and you know, she's just
Speaker 1: very much wanted to continue with more of the same
Speaker 1: there was She absolutely understood that her character often can
Speaker 1: be let's just say, passive, aggressive or worse or manipulative.
Speaker 2: I know this person. I know you like I feel
Speaker 2: like we all know this person.
Speaker 1: They're out there for sure. But she loved it, and
Speaker 1: I still remember. I remember season one she came in
Speaker 1: to do her sort of adr, her dialogue replacement. It
Speaker 1: was the first time she got to see some scenes
Speaker 1: and I played her some of the scenes, some of
Speaker 1: the moments that I loved, and I remember she got
Speaker 1: this big smile on her face and went, oh, she's
Speaker 1: such a bitch, but with absolute delight, and so.
Speaker 2: You know, it makes me so happy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and she's just It was wonderful coming back, just
Speaker 1: knowing how Marg approached the role. And she has a
Speaker 1: few scenes with Maria Angelico plays a very innocent makeup
Speaker 1: artist Cheryl, and Marg's character very shrewdly manipulates her and I,
Speaker 1: you know, we just love developing that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: It reminded us of the movie of the book Rebecca
Speaker 1: with Missus Danvers and the notion of an innocent coming
Speaker 1: into Marks. We also get a big showdown between Anna
Speaker 1: and Mark that was also, I mean, yeah, I love
Speaker 1: the character too. She's another character that I would be
Speaker 1: just happy to watch the Evelyn Show.
Speaker 2: So would, and I hate that woman in real life.
Speaker 2: Whenever that woman in real life comes across my table,
Speaker 2: I'm like, I've seen you. They're the master of manipulation,
Speaker 2: the master of conversation and the importance of saying less
Speaker 2: but articulating the most.
Speaker 1: Yeah, while she evolves a little bit, I won't say anymore,
Speaker 1: but you'll have to just see where she winds up
Speaker 1: at the end.
Speaker 2: Well, A great way to tease this season is something
Speaker 2: from your perspective. Is there a favorite moment that you
Speaker 2: are looking forward to audiences seeing, you know, not of
Speaker 2: course not giving it away, but you know, just allowing
Speaker 2: people to do this podcast to have that moment watching
Speaker 2: this series where they go, this is what they were
Speaker 2: talking about.
Speaker 1: Hunter page Lechard plays this role in it, and I
Speaker 1: think he's so magnetic and great and I'm just really
Speaker 1: excited for people to see him because I think I
Speaker 1: still think of Hunter Pasler. I'm playing teenagers, and the
Speaker 1: character he's playing now is very much not a teenager,
Speaker 1: and he looks like Prince.
Speaker 2: He moves like Prince. You know there's asexual dance moves
Speaker 2: that he manages to do that.
Speaker 1: Is very well. He's hunter, comes from a dancing family,
Speaker 1: and that was his one note. Actually, we had a
Speaker 1: we had a scene where he's playing some Marsha heins
Speaker 1: and he says, can I get up and have a
Speaker 1: little bit of a boogie? And I said, uk, whoever?
Speaker 2: It even says Marshall heines in the final product. I
Speaker 2: think he just keeps saying Marsha, and we don't know
Speaker 2: until we hear Marsha. I'm not sure. I'm probably gonna
Speaker 2: get standing. We're going to be corrected. It feels really
Speaker 2: obvious to ask this question to you, but do you
Speaker 2: know if we're going to get a season three? Are
Speaker 2: you what's going on with this? I know?
Speaker 1: I wish I could say, no, you can't tell me.
Speaker 1: Well that's a case. No, no, no, no, I'm saying I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 2: My contracts up for negotiation, give me my money.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I personally would love there to be a
Speaker 1: season three, but no, I don't. I don't know yet,
Speaker 1: and we'll have to wait and see how season two
Speaker 1: is received.
Speaker 2: Is it harder to get multiple series made? And how
Speaker 2: do you go about securing the next season? Do you
Speaker 2: just sit back and hope for the best, or are you,
Speaker 2: you know, sending them pages? Are you like, what do
Speaker 2: you do in this position to make sure that we
Speaker 2: get you get more to tell more story?
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, you absolutely develop your plan for what
Speaker 1: you would do and hope, you know, just to show people, look,
Speaker 1: we've got great ideas. Here are great ideas to go forward.
Speaker 1: I mean, it does get harder with every season because
Speaker 1: I think especially in the streaming world, you know, it's
Speaker 1: the new is often the most valuable, like what's going
Speaker 1: to grab subscribers new subscribers. So that's why you don't
Speaker 1: get those long running shows the way that you used to,
Speaker 1: with a few exceptions like yeah, it's always about new
Speaker 1: short run limited series or whatever. But you know, the
Speaker 1: show sold really, really well, and the cast of now
Speaker 1: bigger draws for audiences than they were when we started.
Speaker 1: And I know, I mean, I'm you know, if we
Speaker 1: were to keep going, we get into nineteen eighty nine,
Speaker 1: which that is an absolute blockbuster year, like that's got
Speaker 1: the Berlin Wall and it's got Tianneman Square and just
Speaker 1: these absolutely epic news stories. So yeah. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: very happy to be on the record saying I want it.
Speaker 1: I really want it to happen. I think we could
Speaker 1: do a great season, but you know it's in the
Speaker 1: hands of the gods of what's in the hands of
Speaker 1: the audience.
Speaker 2: Really, before you go, I was gonna say, do you
Speaker 2: think because we had like this season of rebooted shows
Speaker 2: for a period of time, you know, streamers were launching
Speaker 2: with a reboot of a popular brand, how would you
Speaker 2: feel if in ten years time they rebooted one of
Speaker 2: your shows? Could you see that happening? And I wanted
Speaker 2: to know how that would make you feel if someone
Speaker 2: else was doing that with your So I've never thought
Speaker 2: about it.
Speaker 1: Actually, my gut reaction is I'd be delighted because I
Speaker 1: feel like it would just be well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you want to try and write characters that lodge in
Speaker 1: people's hearts and minds, and if they have to the
Speaker 1: extent that people want to reboot the show, then you know,
Speaker 1: that's great. Also, I think i'd probably get some some
Speaker 1: sort of residual sport, so that'd be good.
Speaker 2: So you think about Michael, that's not enough and with
Speaker 2: the money.
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I myself don't and would you know,
Speaker 1: once I'm done with the show, I think I'm pretty done.
Speaker 1: Like I remember Offspring finished with season five and I
Speaker 1: was done, and that that was one of the times
Speaker 1: where and you wouldn't even call it was a reboot
Speaker 1: because it was just two years later they picked it
Speaker 1: up again. But I was, like I was, I had
Speaker 1: moved on, and so I can't. I don't think I
Speaker 1: would ever personally want to take something from the past
Speaker 1: and reimagine it. I'd rather do something new. But if
Speaker 1: someone else wanted to do it, yeah, sure, I'd be
Speaker 1: thrilled to see what they came up with.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's your gift. It'll be your gift to them anyway.
Speaker 2: The last question I have to ask you before you go,
Speaker 2: what is something from behind the scenes of making the
Speaker 2: second series something weir as an audience won't see that
Speaker 2: kind of like a behind the scenes secret from your
Speaker 2: perspective of making coming back and doing this again.
Speaker 1: Oh I suppose. I suppose in some ways, the most
Speaker 1: interesting thing that you won't see is that you know,
Speaker 1: we are very lucky that we've got the entire ensemble back,
Speaker 1: which was no small feet, considering so many of them
Speaker 1: were so employed. But definitely one of the tricky situations
Speaker 1: we were in was with Chai Hansen, who plays Tim,
Speaker 1: got this amazing role on Night Sky with Sissy Space,
Speaker 1: like a huge Amazon show, which was so brilliant. Unfortunately
Speaker 1: for us, it meant that he was committed to this
Speaker 1: Amazon show and there was really no guarantee that we
Speaker 1: could get him. And I love that character and I
Speaker 1: just felt like he has to make a return appearance
Speaker 1: in the second series. It just has to happen. And
Speaker 1: I know that Chai loved the show, but of course,
Speaker 1: you know, big Amazon International show. And also the thing
Speaker 1: was at the end of the first season he had
Speaker 1: left the newsroom. So in actual fact, like we didn't,
Speaker 1: it wouldn't We wouldn't have needed to explain it if
Speaker 1: he didn't appear again. I just emotionally did not want
Speaker 1: to let the character go, and basically we were sort
Speaker 1: of advised, look, he should maybe consider just moving on
Speaker 1: and not incorporating him, but I couldn't. So what I
Speaker 1: did was I sort of in my mind, I developed
Speaker 1: two different pathways for the show, one where we got
Speaker 1: Chai Handsom back and one where we didn't get him back.
Speaker 1: And to make to make the stakes even higher. We
Speaker 1: were not going to get final confirmation on whether or
Speaker 1: not we could get him until we were already shooting,
Speaker 1: so I was sitting there poised. I wrote all the
Speaker 1: scripts with you know, with the episodes that have Chai
Speaker 1: in them, and I hoped, like hell, we were going
Speaker 1: to get him. And I knew that Chai was doing
Speaker 1: his best with his people, but we were just sitting
Speaker 1: there holding our breast. But in my mind I had
Speaker 1: a whole other version and if that had happened, if
Speaker 1: we got the call saying we're really sorry you can't
Speaker 1: get hy, then I would have just had to like
Speaker 1: suddenly rewrite a lot of the series and stay up
Speaker 1: all not doing it. But as you can imagine, I
Speaker 1: was so relieved when Chai thankfully managed to make it
Speaker 1: work and managed to get to Melbourne for a few
Speaker 1: weeks to shoot his role in the second series. That
Speaker 1: was a very happy day. And the audience will have
Speaker 1: no idea that there was this whole other alternate version
Speaker 1: where Tim remained absent, but I'm thrilled that he was back.
Speaker 2: Mate. I just want to say thank you so much
Speaker 2: for your generosity with your time. I absolutely always love
Speaker 2: talking to you. There's something so electric about someone being
Speaker 2: so passionate about what it is that they do and
Speaker 2: doing it so well. So yeah, thank you, oh my pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thanks