WEBVTT - Michael Lucas - THE NEWSREADER - Writer / Producer

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<v Speaker 1>It's in the news today, but it was actually on

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<v Speaker 1>TV Reload the podcast last week that might.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome back guys to TV Reload. As you may know,

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<v Speaker 2>my name is Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast

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<v Speaker 2>to get all the inside goss on the popular TV

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<v Speaker 2>shows you may be watching from around the world. Undeniably,

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<v Speaker 2>our TV sets are a major part of our home entertainment,

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<v Speaker 2>and yet very little is known about how our favorite

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<v Speaker 2>shows get made. So each episode have been finding guests

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<v Speaker 2>they want to dive just that little bit deeper into

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<v Speaker 2>the shows they're currently making, so that you can hear

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<v Speaker 2>all their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest

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<v Speaker 2>names in Australian television. I want to thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>downloading or subscribing to this podcast however you've found me.

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<v Speaker 2>I love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave

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<v Speaker 2>a review or a comment on your chosen podcast platform.

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<v Speaker 2>On today's podcast, I have Michael Lucas, a multi award

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<v Speaker 2>winning content creator, screenwriter and producer. He made his debut

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<v Speaker 2>with the indie feature comedy Not Suitable for Children back

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twelve, and audiences would know a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>his TV credits over the years. With Offspring Wentworth, Party Tricks,

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<v Speaker 2>Five Bedrooms, and last year's critically acclaimed The Newsreader, which

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<v Speaker 2>has its second series launching this week on the ABC.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Michael's second time of the podcast and while

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<v Speaker 2>this is a longer chat than most of my usuals,

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<v Speaker 2>I honestly felt like I spoke to him for twenty minutes,

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<v Speaker 2>not close to an hour. The first season of The

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<v Speaker 2>Newsreader won an Actor for Best Drama Series, with two

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<v Speaker 2>episodes written and co written by Michael nominated for Actors

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<v Speaker 2>for Best Screenplay and Television clear to say that this

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<v Speaker 2>second series has been eagerly anticipated and we are going

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<v Speaker 2>to get a lot of really fun insights into the

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<v Speaker 2>production of this new series. I will talk about The

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<v Speaker 2>news Reader's popularity and how Michael has translated his love

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<v Speaker 2>of the newsroom into a TV series which features real

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<v Speaker 2>life events amongst the fictitious characters deliciously set in the eighties.

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<v Speaker 2>Michael will share his ambition to bring back all the

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<v Speaker 2>central characters to the Australian series, which would have been

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<v Speaker 2>a huge challenge with Sam Reid and Anatov both being

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<v Speaker 2>picked up for juicy roles. In Interview with The Vampire

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<v Speaker 2>for Sam and the last of us for Anna. Along

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<v Speaker 2>the way, we will unpack the show's ability to address homophobia, racism,

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<v Speaker 2>and feminism in the eighties and how that now looks

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<v Speaker 2>in twenty twenty three. Plus, we will get plenty of

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<v Speaker 2>exclusives from behind the scenes of The news Reader, which,

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<v Speaker 2>as I mentioned, returns this Sunday night on the ABC,

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<v Speaker 2>and you will be able to catch up on on

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<v Speaker 2>ABC I view shortly after. Anyway, let's bring Michael into

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast. And I loved this chat and I really

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<v Speaker 2>hope you enjoy this very interesting episode of TV reload.

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<v Speaker 2>How are you? Anyway you will?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm good. I'm actually I'm jet lagged. I've just come

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<v Speaker 1>back from overseas, but other than that, I'm good.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I have to ask you straight off the bat,

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<v Speaker 2>how excited were you when you got asked all it

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<v Speaker 2>was confirmed that you were getting a second series of

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<v Speaker 2>The news Reader?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, hugely, massively, But this was actually one of those

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<v Speaker 1>rare times where they got us developing the second season

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<v Speaker 1>before the first season aired, so I was deep into it.

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<v Speaker 1>There was part of me that was just relieved because

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<v Speaker 1>I'd already done all this work. I already had like

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<v Speaker 1>two episode scripts and everything, so I would have been

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<v Speaker 1>really disappointed if we didn't get the second season by

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<v Speaker 1>that stage.

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<v Speaker 2>You know that happens to p Oh, it's.

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<v Speaker 1>Happened to me. It's happened to me. Absolutely. I've been

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<v Speaker 1>on shows where we've developed scripts for a future season

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<v Speaker 1>and that I haven't gone with that, and so you

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<v Speaker 1>just sort of have to have these sad little scripts

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<v Speaker 1>sitting there that never get made, and you sit there

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<v Speaker 1>thinking should we just give them to the cast so

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<v Speaker 1>they can read it? Or is that be torture?

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<v Speaker 2>But there would be torture, but you know who would

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<v Speaker 2>really appreciate it, the fans. Can you tell me was

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<v Speaker 2>one of those series Party Tricks?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? No, totally, yes it was. That's the main one

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<v Speaker 1>that I'm thinking of for sure. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>I have watched Party Tricks more times that first series

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<v Speaker 2>than any other of your shows. And wow, I just

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<v Speaker 2>am obsessed.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh great, Oh that's so lovely you. I love it

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<v Speaker 1>when people love Party Tricks just because you know it

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<v Speaker 1>was It's never the one that people normally mention. It's

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<v Speaker 1>always Offspring or Wentworth or Newsreader or five hundreds. But

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<v Speaker 1>it has a special place in my heart. But there

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<v Speaker 1>are three scripts sitting there for season two that never happened.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, I often talk about this because a podcast

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<v Speaker 2>about television, so you get it right. I often say

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<v Speaker 2>to people when they're making their first series, whether they're writers, directors, cast,

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<v Speaker 2>I say that, you know, all of the things can

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<v Speaker 2>be perfect in a series and it may not go again.

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<v Speaker 2>And when I think of one of the series, it's

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<v Speaker 2>the most perfect in my mind that didn't go again

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<v Speaker 2>and should help is that one.

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<v Speaker 1>So ah. It was always a bit ambitious to think,

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<v Speaker 1>let's do a political show on Channel ten, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think it was. It's always weird factors. It also came

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<v Speaker 1>straight after Offspring, and I remember people just wanted more

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<v Speaker 1>Offspring at that point. And I still remember Mum and

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<v Speaker 1>me I had a whole article saying, we don't want

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<v Speaker 1>this political show, we just want Nina and I yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>so I think we were swimming against the tipe. But

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<v Speaker 1>I still love that. And it weirdly was picked up

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<v Speaker 1>on by Acorn overseas in the middle of COVID and

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<v Speaker 1>it had a little burst of life there, so you

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<v Speaker 1>know it's still around.

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<v Speaker 2>It gets a burst of life in my house.

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<v Speaker 1>All that's so good.

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<v Speaker 2>Even some of the ways in which you were using

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<v Speaker 2>your writing and the storytelling of that show to tackle

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<v Speaker 2>some of the topics. Still is very relevant today, so

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<v Speaker 2>like there's still really fun to unpack.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh and it got weirdly it kind of seemed to

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<v Speaker 1>have all this strange resonance with the Trump Clinton election

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<v Speaker 1>because it was well before that. But I remember it

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<v Speaker 1>was about a TV star that gets parachuted into politics,

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<v Speaker 1>going against a blonde establishment politician and beating her. Not

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<v Speaker 1>that I mean Roger course is a very different proposition

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<v Speaker 1>to Donald Trump, but worse than the funny parallels.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I just had him on the podcast. Maybe he's

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<v Speaker 2>still listening, and.

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<v Speaker 1>I heard I heard about the Traders.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I was going to ask you. The thing about

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<v Speaker 2>writing a show and hoping it goes again is securing

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<v Speaker 2>the cast, securing it, making sure they come back. Had

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<v Speaker 2>you worried that Sam might have run off with some

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<v Speaker 2>vampires and not have been available.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, yeah, when we cast this, it was in the

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<v Speaker 1>middle of COVID, in the first burst of it when

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<v Speaker 1>we cast the first season, and so you know a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of these people like Sam and like Anna, the

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<v Speaker 1>only reason they were in Australia at all was because

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<v Speaker 1>of COVID and it certainly wasn't Like, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>it's revealing too much to say, we didn't really have

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<v Speaker 1>options on anyone, so we just had to hope that

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<v Speaker 1>they loved the show and had a really great experience

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<v Speaker 1>with it and would commit to coming back. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>look it was I mean not just Sam, but Anna

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<v Speaker 1>obviously got Last of Us, and Sam got Interview with

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<v Speaker 1>the Vampire, which is massive, and Chia Hansen got Night

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<v Speaker 1>Sky with Sissy SpaceX. It was like all our cast

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to be getting this huge international shows. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>thankfully they all jumped on straight away to come back.

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<v Speaker 1>So you know, we were really delighted and again relieved

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<v Speaker 1>because I would certainly had plotted for the entire En

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<v Speaker 1>Song Well to come back before we had secured them.

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<v Speaker 2>So would just have said that Sam ran off with

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<v Speaker 2>you know, one of one of the makeup artists or

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<v Speaker 2>something and rest him. Like, had you thought of a

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<v Speaker 2>contingency play?

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<v Speaker 1>I guess I sort of had. I mean I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>want to do it though, because I was so invested

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<v Speaker 1>in Dale, but I had thought that maybe you could

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<v Speaker 1>do something tracking Anna's character, sort of becoming a foreign

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<v Speaker 1>correspondent or something. She could be overseas. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>had that in the back of my mind. And funnily enough,

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<v Speaker 1>Lisa Miller on News Breakfast has written an amazing book

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<v Speaker 1>about being a foreign correspondent, and I was reading that

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<v Speaker 1>as sort of inspiration if it happened, And now she's

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<v Speaker 1>hosting a podcast about the Newsreader. So when I spoke

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<v Speaker 1>to her for the first time, I said, you wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>read about it, but I've devoured your book. And if

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<v Speaker 1>we didn't get Sam read, I had a whole version

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<v Speaker 1>of the Newsreader that was Helen working internationally. But I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure that would have been an amazing and possibly expensive show.

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<v Speaker 1>But I just wanted to continue the story with the

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<v Speaker 1>characters that we had very much, and so yeah, it

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<v Speaker 1>was wonderful that they all agreed to come back.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we're watching previewing the second series, and by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>congratulations it is. It's even better than the first season,

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<v Speaker 2>which I thought was impossible.

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<v Speaker 1>Like, how many episodes have they given you?

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<v Speaker 2>I'm up to episode five?

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Okay, you're deep and I have your

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<v Speaker 1>privileged your privileged because because I do know that ABC

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<v Speaker 1>has kept a pretty like you must be very persuasive.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I sleep I'm sleeping with the head of ABC.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm I'm joking.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm joking.

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<v Speaker 2>Buttress always been on my bucket list, you know. No, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to say, so, we're up episode five

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<v Speaker 2>and we're watching it, and my partner, he watches a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the shows that I'm previewing, and he said,

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<v Speaker 2>about up to episode five, figures, do you know who

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<v Speaker 2>Dale reminds me of? Dal kind of reminds me of

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<v Speaker 2>like he could be a vampire. And I looked at

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<v Speaker 2>him and I go, are you drunk? I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>he's from Interview with the Vampire, the series we watched

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<v Speaker 2>last year that you said was like one of the

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<v Speaker 2>favorite shows you've ever seen. And he was like, yes, oh,

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<v Speaker 2>he's just dropped.

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<v Speaker 1>That makes sense to me. That makes sense to me

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<v Speaker 1>because Sam is just so different. I mean, even though

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<v Speaker 1>obviously you know it's still Sam. He looks the same,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, Dale and Lustat are just profoundly different

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<v Speaker 1>characters and it's really amazing. I'm thrilled for him that

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<v Speaker 1>he bounces between the two of them, because if you

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<v Speaker 1>want to see an acting showcase, you just need to

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<v Speaker 1>see him in one show. And yeah, he's almost unrecognizable

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<v Speaker 1>in every way. His voice, the way he moves, the

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<v Speaker 1>way holds himself. It's really shows what an incredible actor is.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I was gonna then ask you about what you think, well,

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<v Speaker 2>what you thought of the interview with Vampire. But I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like we got that there anyway.

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<v Speaker 1>I know I was obsessed. Well, I loved that book

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<v Speaker 1>when that whole series was when I was a kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I got into it first through the movie,

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<v Speaker 1>the Tom Cruise movie, of course, and then hit the books.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I mean, Sam, you know, I think we

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<v Speaker 1>were imposed on newsreader when he got that role, and

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<v Speaker 1>I was beside myself. I was like emailing him and

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<v Speaker 1>texting him, and needless to say, when he arrived back

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<v Speaker 1>in the country after doing interview the Vampire, I just

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<v Speaker 1>sat down and just grilled him.

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<v Speaker 2>Did you ask him over for dinner? I'd be I'd

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<v Speaker 2>step over the bounds of what's like a working relationship

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<v Speaker 2>and be like, we need to go for a whine.

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<v Speaker 2>You need to tell me everything that happened.

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<v Speaker 1>No, no, yeah, no, I absolutely we went out for

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<v Speaker 1>a wine. I mean, the good thing was he was

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<v Speaker 1>very gracious about it, and also, you know, I guess

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<v Speaker 1>it was fun for him to chat about it with

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<v Speaker 1>someone who knows it so well. Yeah. Well, now, of

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<v Speaker 1>course Emma Freeman, who directs Newsy that has directed some

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<v Speaker 1>of the interview with the Vampire as well, and I

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<v Speaker 1>have yet to see her since she has got back,

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<v Speaker 1>but she knows I've already warned her. We're sitting down,

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<v Speaker 1>You're telling me all the stories about it because I'm

0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:44.080
<v Speaker 1>obsessed with I think they did such an amazing job

0:10:44.120 --> 0:10:45.200
<v Speaker 1>with that shit, with the show.

0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.120
<v Speaker 2>It was real believable. Now that you know what worked

0:10:48.120 --> 0:10:50.880
<v Speaker 2>in series won, did that kind of shape how you

0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:52.200
<v Speaker 2>would attack the second series?

0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, although keep in mind that I started writing a

0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:58.280
<v Speaker 1>second series before series one came out, which was interesting,

0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.200
<v Speaker 1>so I didn't know how people were going to react

0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.679
<v Speaker 1>to it, which is actually a really brilliant way to

0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.960
<v Speaker 1>start because you just sort of talk about about it

0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:09.760
<v Speaker 1>amongst the team and you just know what you thought

0:11:09.800 --> 0:11:12.439
<v Speaker 1>the strengths of it were. But I think one of

0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.079
<v Speaker 1>the weird things about that was that we introduced a

0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:17.280
<v Speaker 1>lot of new characters in the second series, Like in

0:11:17.320 --> 0:11:20.400
<v Speaker 1>the first episode, you suddenly hit with multiple new characters,

0:11:20.679 --> 0:11:23.600
<v Speaker 1>and part of me wonders if I'd waited until it

0:11:23.640 --> 0:11:26.600
<v Speaker 1>came out because people seem to like the ensemble as

0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.240
<v Speaker 1>it was so much. I'm not sure that I would

0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.640
<v Speaker 1>have been so gung ho introducing all these new characters.

0:11:32.640 --> 0:11:34.439
<v Speaker 1>I mean, all of your existing ensemble is in there.

0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.160
<v Speaker 1>But that was one thing that we went on with,

0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:38.400
<v Speaker 1>and I'm really glad we did, because I mean, I

0:11:38.400 --> 0:11:40.760
<v Speaker 1>think the story works really well with all the new characters.

0:11:40.840 --> 0:11:44.319
<v Speaker 2>But well, you've set up these people to you know've

0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.800
<v Speaker 2>got to go and jump new hurdles. And I think

0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.120
<v Speaker 2>sometimes with writing, and you go back and look at

0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.640
<v Speaker 2>some of the bigger iconic shows, you know they worry

0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:56.400
<v Speaker 2>too much about standing outside the call four or the

0:11:56.400 --> 0:12:00.559
<v Speaker 2>core five. You know, it's just storytelling, and well fact

0:12:00.800 --> 0:12:03.720
<v Speaker 2>it just leads to so much more possibility once you've

0:12:03.760 --> 0:12:05.720
<v Speaker 2>got other characters for them to bounce off, because they

0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:08.280
<v Speaker 2>draw different things out of these people. We feel like

0:12:08.360 --> 0:12:08.640
<v Speaker 2>we know.

0:12:09.040 --> 0:12:12.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, absolutely, And probably if I'd waited to start developing

0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 1>it till after season one had aired, I think I

0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.120
<v Speaker 1>would have been in that position of thinking, maybe let's

0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:19.000
<v Speaker 1>just stick with the core and let's not bring in

0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.679
<v Speaker 1>let's not shake it up too much. But other than that,

0:12:21.760 --> 0:12:24.920
<v Speaker 1>I just knew. I knew things like from the production

0:12:25.040 --> 0:12:28.240
<v Speaker 1>of it, you know, big breaking news moments worked really well,

0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.600
<v Speaker 1>and Emma Freeman had come up with this brilliant way

0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:32.400
<v Speaker 1>of directing it where she sort of stages at like

0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.640
<v Speaker 1>a big stage play, and so that influenced me, Like,

0:12:35.720 --> 0:12:38.080
<v Speaker 1>we start with an election episode, and she ran all

0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:41.280
<v Speaker 1>those scenes together and the cast learned everything so that

0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.400
<v Speaker 1>they could get that kinetic pace happening with election night.

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.160
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, I knew all of that, and I knew

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:48.440
<v Speaker 1>it's sort of a show that's about change, So we

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.199
<v Speaker 1>just wanted to keep pushing the characters forward into new

0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:54.560
<v Speaker 1>territory and not spin our wheels too much.

0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:57.200
<v Speaker 2>Were the things that didn't fit into Series one that

0:12:57.240 --> 0:12:59.319
<v Speaker 2>you were able to flesh out in series two. Is

0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:02.800
<v Speaker 2>there anything that you had originally in the script that

0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.439
<v Speaker 2>you were like, oh, well, let's move this into the

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 2>next pant.

0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:08.360
<v Speaker 1>Well, actually, when we first developed Series one in the

0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:11.120
<v Speaker 1>early days, it was eight episodes and then became six,

0:13:11.320 --> 0:13:16.120
<v Speaker 1>so there was a bit of leftover material. Prominently, I mean,

0:13:16.200 --> 0:13:19.960
<v Speaker 1>Charles and Diana pop up in series two, and originally

0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:22.440
<v Speaker 1>that was part of the architecture of series one.

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.760
<v Speaker 2>So iconic to the eighties, you know.

0:13:24.960 --> 0:13:26.719
<v Speaker 1>Oh absolutely, I mean, in the end, it was a

0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.720
<v Speaker 1>bit weird that you didn't. I mean, Diana was just

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 1>such a fixation in the eighties and she never even

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:33.719
<v Speaker 1>she was mentioned in series one, but you never saw her.

0:13:33.960 --> 0:13:37.200
<v Speaker 1>I guess yes, I did sort of have a sense

0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.280
<v Speaker 1>of kind of the developments in their personal life that

0:13:42.080 --> 0:13:43.880
<v Speaker 1>in early stages I thought we might get to in

0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:47.160
<v Speaker 1>series one, but we were chock full, and so they

0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:49.560
<v Speaker 1>were definitely things that I wanted to explore. In series two.

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:52.440
<v Speaker 2>It felt like we got to be very close to

0:13:53.280 --> 0:13:55.560
<v Speaker 2>Dale's sexuality and where that was going to go with

0:13:55.600 --> 0:13:58.720
<v Speaker 2>a relationship. And you know, had there been episodes seven

0:13:58.720 --> 0:14:01.240
<v Speaker 2>and eight in season one, you might have found a

0:14:01.280 --> 0:14:04.200
<v Speaker 2>few more conclusions there were, I think stopping it where

0:14:04.200 --> 0:14:06.560
<v Speaker 2>it was, and then coming into series two it feels

0:14:06.600 --> 0:14:08.640
<v Speaker 2>like there's some more airport into that, so you can

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:10.760
<v Speaker 2>digest it in a different way, which I think is

0:14:10.880 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>a huge luxury to have when you're a writer creator

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:15.880
<v Speaker 2>of something like this. I noticed when series one went

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.160
<v Speaker 2>to air a lot of people interpreted the last moments

0:14:19.160 --> 0:14:22.440
<v Speaker 2>between them. He has a speech to Helen where he says,

0:14:22.480 --> 0:14:24.320
<v Speaker 2>I have these feelings that won't go away, and neither

0:14:24.360 --> 0:14:27.200
<v Speaker 2>were my feelings for you and it's tearing me apart.

0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think people saw it as he's coming out

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:29.880
<v Speaker 2>and that's.

0:14:29.720 --> 0:14:32.680
<v Speaker 1>The end of Dale and Helen. I think people percent

0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:35.960
<v Speaker 1>that maybe because they just sort of, you know, there's

0:14:36.000 --> 0:14:39.120
<v Speaker 1>a habit to think gay and not consider that it's

0:14:39.160 --> 0:14:41.920
<v Speaker 1>clearly a speech that's sort of leaning more towards buy.

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:47.800
<v Speaker 1>But in our mind we imagined that absolutely they would

0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:51.120
<v Speaker 1>be staying together, and now that they're honest with each other,

0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:53.640
<v Speaker 1>they're also like a safe harbor for each other, and

0:14:53.640 --> 0:14:56.120
<v Speaker 1>they'd be cleaning on tied. And I also felt like

0:14:56.160 --> 0:14:58.680
<v Speaker 1>for the time being, it would take a while before

0:14:58.680 --> 0:15:00.960
<v Speaker 1>their relationship gets tested because both of them were so

0:15:01.040 --> 0:15:03.800
<v Speaker 1>ambitious and so work focused that they would just love

0:15:03.960 --> 0:15:07.400
<v Speaker 1>working together and bouncing off each other. And so, you know,

0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the idea that I had was maybe in about a

0:15:09.800 --> 0:15:12.520
<v Speaker 1>year or so, something might happen or someone might come

0:15:12.560 --> 0:15:14.680
<v Speaker 1>into their world that all of a sudden brings up

0:15:15.040 --> 0:15:17.600
<v Speaker 1>the questions of what are we doing here, and what

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.080
<v Speaker 1>should we be with each other? And what you know,

0:15:21.480 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 1>we know the public just sees as as this romantic

0:15:24.720 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 1>couple and what is to get married? Should we get married,

0:15:26.960 --> 0:15:30.320
<v Speaker 1>what should we should it be open, should it be

0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:32.080
<v Speaker 1>all of those sort of things. I just really wanted

0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.880
<v Speaker 1>to take my time with those questions.

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.040
<v Speaker 2>I felt that I thought that you might have been like, well,

0:15:37.040 --> 0:15:40.320
<v Speaker 2>we can put a pin in that because necessarily, and

0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.320
<v Speaker 2>this is what's really funny is we don't have a

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of storytelling about bisexual people, and so like, even

0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:51.360
<v Speaker 2>addressing the fact that Dale might be bisexual still hasn't

0:15:51.400 --> 0:15:54.720
<v Speaker 2>really been done properly in scripto drama that I've seen.

0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.560
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally, But I mean again, also it's interesting as

0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.320
<v Speaker 1>well because I don't think even that bisexual is not

0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.320
<v Speaker 1>a word that Dale has access to. I think that

0:16:05.440 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 1>at the time that he's in I think what's terrifying

0:16:09.040 --> 0:16:11.680
<v Speaker 1>to him about his queerness is that he sort of

0:16:11.680 --> 0:16:13.960
<v Speaker 1>feels like, if something happens with a man, then I

0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:15.720
<v Speaker 1>can't go there because then it means I could never

0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.560
<v Speaker 1>be with a woman like you know, from a Obviously,

0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:22.280
<v Speaker 1>now we've hit a point where in you know, in

0:16:22.560 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>certain parts of modern society you can be fluid about

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:27.600
<v Speaker 1>that sort of thing. But that was not the case

0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:30.680
<v Speaker 1>in the mid eighties and not the case for Dale,

0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.000
<v Speaker 1>and he would never call himself bisexual. I don't think,

0:16:34.640 --> 0:16:36.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean he would never call himself queer. He just

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.800
<v Speaker 1>doesn't even have a label for himself. He doesn't know

0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 1>who he is.

0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:43.160
<v Speaker 2>Well, the starter's queer was negative, you know.

0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, Well I always find it interesting with the show

0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.640
<v Speaker 1>that I noticed this. You know, obviously, I'm sort of

0:16:49.720 --> 0:16:52.760
<v Speaker 1>somewhat aware of fans that have taken to the show

0:16:52.800 --> 0:16:55.200
<v Speaker 1>and the chatter around that, and I do notice that

0:16:55.200 --> 0:16:56.920
<v Speaker 1>there has sort of ended up being these sort of

0:16:57.240 --> 0:17:00.560
<v Speaker 1>people different camps, and that some people think, oh, Dale

0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.280
<v Speaker 1>and Helen, they shouldn't be together. He should be, he

0:17:03.320 --> 0:17:05.159
<v Speaker 1>should be often gay clubs and sleeping with men, and

0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.119
<v Speaker 1>other people think, no, no, they' soulmates. They've got to

0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:09.040
<v Speaker 1>stay together. And there's all of these and other people

0:17:09.080 --> 0:17:12.080
<v Speaker 1>think they should stay together, but just in this polyamorous,

0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.200
<v Speaker 1>sort of reloving way. And I kind of love that

0:17:15.440 --> 0:17:19.920
<v Speaker 1>this one relationship has draws all these different reactions.

0:17:20.400 --> 0:17:22.119
<v Speaker 2>But I think that's the beauty of what it is

0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:25.440
<v Speaker 2>that you know, you're doing with this particular show. You're

0:17:25.480 --> 0:17:30.680
<v Speaker 2>tackling race, sexuality, discrimination, feminism. There's so much that's going on.

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:33.160
<v Speaker 2>The whole show is laced with issues that I think

0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.919
<v Speaker 2>is still being addressed in twenty twenty three, does that

0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:38.919
<v Speaker 2>make you realize how far we've come or does it

0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 2>highlight how much we still need to do.

0:17:40.720 --> 0:17:43.600
<v Speaker 1>It's kind of both in a weird way. I mean, definitely,

0:17:43.800 --> 0:17:47.399
<v Speaker 1>you know, sexuality, that's a huge change since the mid eighties.

0:17:47.440 --> 0:17:50.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean just looking at someone in Dale's position now,

0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:52.800
<v Speaker 1>it is a really big change, There's no doubt about it.

0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.520
<v Speaker 1>But you know, we also get into some First Nations

0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:58.800
<v Speaker 1>issues in season two because we're dealing with the Bisentennial,

0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:03.560
<v Speaker 1>and it was actually really startling just seeing how little

0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:05.320
<v Speaker 1>change there really has, and of course we're at this

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:07.920
<v Speaker 1>point in history now where it's on the front page

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.679
<v Speaker 1>of all the newspapers again. I think it was fascinating

0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:14.680
<v Speaker 1>going back in time and reading about the Bisentennial protests,

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.000
<v Speaker 1>and of course at the time that was one of

0:18:17.000 --> 0:18:19.160
<v Speaker 1>the biggest protests Austraia's ever seen, and it was kind

0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.200
<v Speaker 1>of electrifying, and there was this real sense amongst First

0:18:23.280 --> 0:18:26.200
<v Speaker 1>Nations activists that this was a big moment in time

0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.680
<v Speaker 1>and that you know, a page was turning and I'm

0:18:28.680 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 1>not really sure that the page has turned that much.

0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:33.120
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there was an apology and maybe there's been

0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:35.040
<v Speaker 1>progress in some ways, but it was kind of shocking

0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.040
<v Speaker 1>to see to go back and see how many of

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.960
<v Speaker 1>the same issues we're still grappling with today, and you know,

0:18:42.040 --> 0:18:45.480
<v Speaker 1>in some ways relatively little progress. Some things that feels

0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:48.879
<v Speaker 1>like there's been drastic progress, other things not. Other things

0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:52.520
<v Speaker 1>in between, like certainly feminism and the role of women

0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.680
<v Speaker 1>in the media and stuff like there had there's definitely

0:18:54.680 --> 0:19:00.240
<v Speaker 1>been progress, but also sometimes you can definitely see that

0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:02.040
<v Speaker 1>we haven't come quite as far as we like.

0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.280
<v Speaker 2>I think, you know, mining for stories in how past

0:19:06.400 --> 0:19:09.359
<v Speaker 2>in our history to me is always really fascinating for

0:19:09.440 --> 0:19:12.200
<v Speaker 2>the comparison, you know, and I think that's what I mean,

0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.000
<v Speaker 2>that's what this show does to me. I mean, apart

0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:16.720
<v Speaker 2>from being very well acted and written and produced in

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.119
<v Speaker 2>all of that, it actually is saying something about Australian

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.920
<v Speaker 2>culture in a way that's really digestible and you know, entertaining,

0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:26.080
<v Speaker 2>but also educational, I hope.

0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:31.800
<v Speaker 1>So, I mean, we're really genuinely trying to reflect what

0:19:31.920 --> 0:19:34.560
<v Speaker 1>our research tells, where it's not a sort of a

0:19:34.920 --> 0:19:37.080
<v Speaker 1>hopefully it doesn't feel like a didactic show.

0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:38.600
<v Speaker 2>No, it doesn't at all.

0:19:38.760 --> 0:19:40.760
<v Speaker 1>It is interesting to go back and look at where

0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>we were and to look at it from multiple viewpoints,

0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:46.600
<v Speaker 1>and you know, the characters and the show, you've got

0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:48.840
<v Speaker 1>a real range of people that have different positions on

0:19:49.040 --> 0:19:52.240
<v Speaker 1>different every different issue. And yeah, I love I love

0:19:52.280 --> 0:19:54.760
<v Speaker 1>actually going back and reading the letters section of the

0:19:54.760 --> 0:19:57.520
<v Speaker 1>newspaper and just seeing what the debates were back then,

0:19:57.560 --> 0:19:59.520
<v Speaker 1>and we use the show to kind of bring that

0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:00.200
<v Speaker 1>to life.

0:20:00.440 --> 0:20:03.320
<v Speaker 2>What do you remember about the eighties, because we're about

0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:05.520
<v Speaker 2>I think I said that before, we're around the same age.

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.040
<v Speaker 2>What with some of the historical events that you in

0:20:09.119 --> 0:20:11.240
<v Speaker 2>your I guess you'd be the first ten years of

0:20:11.240 --> 0:20:13.480
<v Speaker 2>your life. What does what stays in your mind that

0:20:13.520 --> 0:20:14.400
<v Speaker 2>you still remember?

0:20:14.720 --> 0:20:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Oh, well, it definitely. It's interesting actually because the further

0:20:17.240 --> 0:20:20.439
<v Speaker 1>we go with the news reader, the clearer the memories get.

0:20:20.640 --> 0:20:22.760
<v Speaker 1>Like it's amazing how much more I can remember of

0:20:22.800 --> 0:20:24.520
<v Speaker 1>eighty seven and an eighty eight than I could remember

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:27.639
<v Speaker 1>ninety of eighty six and look for Bisontinna, I just

0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>really very clearly remember that. I can I remember the

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:33.840
<v Speaker 1>full TV coverage, I remember the concert with Kylie Minogan.

0:20:33.880 --> 0:20:36.880
<v Speaker 1>I live in Newton John, I remember all the projects

0:20:36.880 --> 0:20:39.600
<v Speaker 1>we had to do. I don't remember the protests, which

0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:40.359
<v Speaker 1>is really telling.

0:20:40.640 --> 0:20:42.919
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't either. That's that's really funny that you

0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:44.440
<v Speaker 2>say that. But I mean that's kind of addressed in

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:46.440
<v Speaker 2>the show where you look at the way in which

0:20:46.680 --> 0:20:48.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, not no spoiler, but they do talk about

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 2>it how it's being addressed in mainstream media. One of

0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.240
<v Speaker 2>the characters says, this isn't in the paper, you know,

0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:58.160
<v Speaker 2>And I thought that was really telling because I had

0:20:58.160 --> 0:21:00.800
<v Speaker 2>to go through my own back catalog of memories and

0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:04.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't remember and I remember the first fleet, certainly

0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:06.520
<v Speaker 2>remember that coin that we got at school. I certainly

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.280
<v Speaker 2>remember the Expo eighty eight song that you.

0:21:09.200 --> 0:21:12.600
<v Speaker 1>Know, oh that's in this celebration of a nation. Yes, yes,

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:16.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean we do a version of that, which is sorry,

0:21:16.560 --> 0:21:20.800
<v Speaker 1>it's not that song, but we definitely are evoking that jingle.

0:21:20.760 --> 0:21:22.960
<v Speaker 2>That seems to fit perfectly well that am Roscian is

0:21:23.000 --> 0:21:23.640
<v Speaker 2>singing that song.

0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Well. Funnily enough, when we were talking about the kinds

0:21:27.040 --> 0:21:30.600
<v Speaker 1>of the sound we wanted, the composer that I was

0:21:30.640 --> 0:21:33.560
<v Speaker 1>working with said we wanted a voice like Kate Sobranos,

0:21:33.680 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 1>but we didn't actually want to get Kate Sobrano because

0:21:35.800 --> 0:21:37.359
<v Speaker 1>she was around in the eighties and it would just

0:21:37.440 --> 0:21:40.720
<v Speaker 1>be weird to see real life Kate Sobrano there hopefully

0:21:40.920 --> 0:21:42.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, she might not want to do it and

0:21:42.440 --> 0:21:45.120
<v Speaker 1>probaly couldn't afford her anyway. But I was like, I

0:21:45.200 --> 0:21:49.560
<v Speaker 1>know someone who has that bluesy tone that you're looking for,

0:21:49.680 --> 0:21:51.840
<v Speaker 1>and so yes, that's how she got into it. But yeah,

0:21:51.880 --> 0:21:53.679
<v Speaker 1>that I mean the Bison tee And also for me

0:21:53.960 --> 0:21:56.760
<v Speaker 1>because you're Melbourne as well, aren't you you're Yeah, the

0:21:56.760 --> 0:22:00.879
<v Speaker 1>Hottle Street massacre as well was incredibly amorable for me.

0:22:01.040 --> 0:22:04.560
<v Speaker 1>I even just the name Hoddle Street was just loaded

0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.720
<v Speaker 1>with such an ominous sense after that. I mean, I

0:22:09.480 --> 0:22:12.680
<v Speaker 1>just remember talking about it in primary school and it

0:22:12.359 --> 0:22:16.600
<v Speaker 1>was so shocking and kind of unfathomable, and you know,

0:22:16.600 --> 0:22:18.280
<v Speaker 1>they're just the thought that you'd be driving in your

0:22:18.280 --> 0:22:21.240
<v Speaker 1>car and shots would start lasting through. So that has

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:24.040
<v Speaker 1>always been something. I lived near Hoddle Street and even

0:22:24.040 --> 0:22:27.080
<v Speaker 1>now as an adult, I'm always so conscious of it.

0:22:27.119 --> 0:22:30.040
<v Speaker 1>And the word is the names loaded with so much.

0:22:30.080 --> 0:22:32.840
<v Speaker 1>So yeah, that was another really interesting one for all

0:22:32.840 --> 0:22:34.399
<v Speaker 1>of us to go back and look at.

0:22:34.520 --> 0:22:36.879
<v Speaker 2>Which is amazing for you to be able to write

0:22:36.920 --> 0:22:39.919
<v Speaker 2>stories of characters around that time. That's where I was

0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.680
<v Speaker 2>asking that question. I was thinking, you know, to remember

0:22:43.200 --> 0:22:46.000
<v Speaker 2>these moments and then to put words into the mouth

0:22:46.080 --> 0:22:49.879
<v Speaker 2>of these characters about how the processed that I don't know,

0:22:49.880 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 2>there's something very fascinating about diae that for you.

0:22:54.200 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, totally. And also that one was particularly fascinating.

0:22:57.680 --> 0:23:01.920
<v Speaker 1>Kim Hoe wrote that episode is another research absolute mega

0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.760
<v Speaker 1>nerd like me. And the news coverage of that was

0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:09.199
<v Speaker 1>really interesting because it was shockingly explicit, baffling to us.

0:23:09.240 --> 0:23:11.720
<v Speaker 1>You would think that TV would be more violent now

0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:14.239
<v Speaker 1>than it was then, but it was really startling how

0:23:14.320 --> 0:23:16.400
<v Speaker 1>much of the aftermath they put on the news, and

0:23:17.000 --> 0:23:18.760
<v Speaker 1>it was just a different culture and we sort of

0:23:18.800 --> 0:23:21.639
<v Speaker 1>found out that back then. It was not long after

0:23:21.680 --> 0:23:24.119
<v Speaker 1>the Vietnam War, and there were so many points in

0:23:24.160 --> 0:23:27.320
<v Speaker 1>the Vietnam War where there was really explicit photos and

0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:29.960
<v Speaker 1>footage that were taken and the journalists that got that

0:23:30.080 --> 0:23:33.000
<v Speaker 1>out were celebrated as heroes because they were showing the

0:23:33.080 --> 0:23:35.200
<v Speaker 1>truth and the reality of war and it changed the

0:23:35.200 --> 0:23:37.480
<v Speaker 1>way the public thought of war. So there was still

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:41.400
<v Speaker 1>that mindset in journalism that even in a mass shooting,

0:23:41.960 --> 0:23:45.720
<v Speaker 1>will just get that footage to air and with no warnings.

0:23:45.760 --> 0:23:48.240
<v Speaker 1>And it was really like I had to warn everyone

0:23:48.320 --> 0:23:50.919
<v Speaker 1>on the crew. We had the raw camera footage of

0:23:50.960 --> 0:23:54.840
<v Speaker 1>the from the ABC archives and that's one thing that

0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:58.880
<v Speaker 1>we've really news does not take that approach anymore, thankfully,

0:23:58.880 --> 0:24:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and it was fascinat and to go back and just

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:02.560
<v Speaker 1>try and get in the mindset of why were they

0:24:02.680 --> 0:24:03.600
<v Speaker 1>treating it like this?

0:24:04.080 --> 0:24:06.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think the grit in all of that and

0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:10.639
<v Speaker 2>the reality of real life situations stops this particular series

0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:13.080
<v Speaker 2>from being too soapy, do you know what I mean?

0:24:13.160 --> 0:24:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Like, yeah, well, I mean it still is a pretty

0:24:15.200 --> 0:24:16.080
<v Speaker 1>melodramatic show.

0:24:16.160 --> 0:24:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Really, it's still a bit soap dish, don't worry, yeah, yeah,

0:24:20.800 --> 0:24:21.399
<v Speaker 2>oh yeah.

0:24:21.560 --> 0:24:24.480
<v Speaker 1>But also because you know, the director is so skilled

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and the cast are so amazing, so they can absolutely

0:24:29.240 --> 0:24:32.480
<v Speaker 1>take that big dramatic moments and make it feel gritty

0:24:32.480 --> 0:24:35.240
<v Speaker 1>and truthful even when you know, even when it's a

0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.200
<v Speaker 1>it's a twist worthy, if worthy of so proper.

0:24:39.400 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean apart from m being there, which I thought

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.920
<v Speaker 2>was great, so we talked about that, but I also

0:24:43.960 --> 0:24:46.400
<v Speaker 2>thought he's got a few of his friends. Jane Harber's

0:24:46.440 --> 0:24:50.399
<v Speaker 2>in there, and her role is so funny, Like I

0:24:50.440 --> 0:24:52.399
<v Speaker 2>think if Jane is very laugh out loud as a

0:24:52.400 --> 0:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>person in general, and it's not really the characters that

0:24:55.359 --> 0:24:59.280
<v Speaker 2>she always plays. She does some very serious roles, but

0:24:59.400 --> 0:25:02.600
<v Speaker 2>she's so so funny. Was it rewarding to watch her

0:25:02.680 --> 0:25:06.600
<v Speaker 2>lift that dialogue onto the screen because it just adam well.

0:25:06.640 --> 0:25:09.720
<v Speaker 1>Some of it. There was one there's one memorable line

0:25:09.960 --> 0:25:12.000
<v Speaker 1>that I'm sure you're thinking of that was a bit

0:25:12.040 --> 0:25:14.399
<v Speaker 1>of banter that she worked up together with Anna that

0:25:14.440 --> 0:25:17.880
<v Speaker 1>was not in the script, and it was very Jane Harbor. Yeah,

0:25:17.880 --> 0:25:21.200
<v Speaker 1>that was the life. So Jane, you know, was played

0:25:21.280 --> 0:25:23.560
<v Speaker 1>Nursara on Offspring and has become a really good friend

0:25:23.560 --> 0:25:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of mine. And it took us a while. So in

0:25:26.040 --> 0:25:28.560
<v Speaker 1>the in the show, she plays the wife of a

0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:32.439
<v Speaker 1>variety show host who's played by this wonderful Irish actor

0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Rory Fleckburne, who you know, it took a while to

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.240
<v Speaker 1>cast that character, and we knew he had this striking

0:25:41.359 --> 0:25:45.760
<v Speaker 1>role as and that he would have this wife who

0:25:45.880 --> 0:25:47.600
<v Speaker 1>was vivid in her own right. She really needed to

0:25:47.640 --> 0:25:50.760
<v Speaker 1>have presence. And as soon as I was speaking to Rory,

0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:54.080
<v Speaker 1>I just felt like he and Jane are going to

0:25:54.119 --> 0:25:59.440
<v Speaker 1>get on like a house on fire. And they did. Yeah,

0:25:59.480 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 1>they arrived. And also because Rory's musical and Jane is musical,

0:26:03.400 --> 0:26:06.480
<v Speaker 1>she very rarely shows it on screen. She doesn't, you know,

0:26:06.960 --> 0:26:09.480
<v Speaker 1>but I know that she's a great singer and pianist.

0:26:09.840 --> 0:26:12.119
<v Speaker 1>And then as soon as they met, oh, it was

0:26:12.160 --> 0:26:14.840
<v Speaker 1>like two musical theater kids that were out of their minds.

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:17.399
<v Speaker 1>And instantly they were planning to put in extra musical

0:26:17.520 --> 0:26:21.040
<v Speaker 1>numbers in the show, which we scrambled to license music

0:26:21.119 --> 0:26:23.239
<v Speaker 1>so we could get them having sing alongs. And I

0:26:23.280 --> 0:26:25.359
<v Speaker 1>love them. I would happily watch a spin off show

0:26:25.400 --> 0:26:27.640
<v Speaker 1>about those two characters absolutely.

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:31.119
<v Speaker 2>I mean, even that story itself about their relationship and

0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:34.360
<v Speaker 2>their understanding. I don't want to walk into a spoiler,

0:26:34.440 --> 0:26:37.480
<v Speaker 2>so I'm just going to try and dodge it. But yeah,

0:26:37.920 --> 0:26:43.119
<v Speaker 2>it's just another taste of some amazing characters said in

0:26:43.160 --> 0:26:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the eighties that are educating us in twenty twenty three.

0:26:47.320 --> 0:26:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, Well, I mean the idea behind his

0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:53.159
<v Speaker 1>character was we wanted to bring in someone who was

0:26:53.200 --> 0:26:56.280
<v Speaker 1>a big contrast to Dale, but who sort of represented

0:26:56.920 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 1>represented a path Dale could go down both professionally and personally.

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:05.120
<v Speaker 2>You know, the story threaded through both of the seasons

0:27:05.320 --> 0:27:07.919
<v Speaker 2>is Dale's homosexuality, and we do have a lot of

0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:12.320
<v Speaker 2>LGBTI journalists who would have been closeted during that era,

0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:15.080
<v Speaker 2>because you know, both of us are very nerdy and

0:27:15.119 --> 0:27:18.119
<v Speaker 2>would know that from researching that time. You know a

0:27:18.160 --> 0:27:20.159
<v Speaker 2>few things. Why do you think that we have a

0:27:20.160 --> 0:27:23.520
<v Speaker 2>lot of queer people in the media. Do you think

0:27:23.600 --> 0:27:25.080
<v Speaker 2>that there's any correlation in that?

0:27:25.240 --> 0:27:28.680
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting. I mean, it feels like there's got to

0:27:28.720 --> 0:27:34.000
<v Speaker 1>be some sort of correlation between queerness and creative creativity

0:27:34.000 --> 0:27:36.520
<v Speaker 1>in some ways, because it feels like queer people are

0:27:36.560 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 1>so overrepresented in creative fields and in media. I guess

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 1>it's also to be honest, like the media and that

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:47.240
<v Speaker 1>level of media is difficult for people who have conventional

0:27:47.400 --> 0:27:52.119
<v Speaker 1>family situations as well, like it's a really demanding schedule

0:27:52.359 --> 0:27:55.440
<v Speaker 1>and you know, and often queer people aren't in those

0:27:55.520 --> 0:27:58.160
<v Speaker 1>kind of conventional I mean, obviously, you know, there's all

0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 1>the whole broad spectrum, but just generality that might be

0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.360
<v Speaker 1>part of the reason why. But I don't know, I mean,

0:28:04.680 --> 0:28:06.760
<v Speaker 1>there's so much about quinness. Why is it that so

0:28:06.800 --> 0:28:09.240
<v Speaker 1>many queen men love the pop divers I mean, I really,

0:28:09.320 --> 0:28:11.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. I'm one of them, and I and

0:28:12.119 --> 0:28:13.920
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, I know, I know exactly what you mean.

0:28:13.960 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 1>There's an overrepresentation.

0:28:16.359 --> 0:28:18.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm always thinking of But you know, I'm always thinking

0:28:18.720 --> 0:28:20.600
<v Speaker 2>about it, and I'm I'm it sounds like I'm about

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:22.919
<v Speaker 2>to try and give you an explanation, and I'm not.

0:28:23.000 --> 0:28:27.199
<v Speaker 2>I'm just adding some more you know, fodder theories, some

0:28:27.280 --> 0:28:30.040
<v Speaker 2>more theories to it. I think that gay men relate

0:28:30.119 --> 0:28:33.959
<v Speaker 2>to women because for our generation particularly, we grew up

0:28:33.960 --> 0:28:36.679
<v Speaker 2>with women as the underdog and they became like our

0:28:36.760 --> 0:28:39.600
<v Speaker 2>superheroes for gay men. You know, they could tread the

0:28:39.600 --> 0:28:42.680
<v Speaker 2>boards in places that we certainly didn't feel like we could,

0:28:43.080 --> 0:28:45.120
<v Speaker 2>and they got to do it with big hair, makeup

0:28:45.160 --> 0:28:47.800
<v Speaker 2>and great dresses, you know, totally, and I felt like

0:28:47.840 --> 0:28:50.520
<v Speaker 2>that's their armor. So I felt like that's there. But

0:28:50.640 --> 0:28:52.840
<v Speaker 2>it's again, it's like, you know, there's so many different

0:28:52.840 --> 0:28:56.560
<v Speaker 2>theories about validation and redemption and the ability to do

0:28:56.640 --> 0:28:59.960
<v Speaker 2>a good job of telling a story and captivating audio.

0:29:00.520 --> 0:29:03.040
<v Speaker 2>I think so much of you growing up as a

0:29:03.080 --> 0:29:06.880
<v Speaker 2>queer person is feeling silenced. So maybe there's a power,

0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, within that's had to be that's been yearned

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:14.520
<v Speaker 2>for and worked hard at, and you know, maybe there's

0:29:14.520 --> 0:29:17.600
<v Speaker 2>something there in the storytelling of you know, a lot

0:29:17.600 --> 0:29:20.880
<v Speaker 2>of our journalists who were very closeted during that time.

0:29:21.080 --> 0:29:23.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, totally. And I mean it's interesting some people that

0:29:24.000 --> 0:29:26.560
<v Speaker 1>worked in newsrooms, queer people that worked in newsrooms have

0:29:26.640 --> 0:29:29.840
<v Speaker 1>ended up working on the show, And often I didn't

0:29:29.880 --> 0:29:33.400
<v Speaker 1>even realize that they were queer until away into the process,

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:35.840
<v Speaker 1>which is interesting. So it does sort of feel like

0:29:36.040 --> 0:29:40.880
<v Speaker 1>this production has drawn those sort of people understandably to it,

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:43.000
<v Speaker 1>which is really great because you know, I wander around

0:29:43.000 --> 0:29:45.400
<v Speaker 1>saying to them, Okay, was the gay club you went

0:29:45.440 --> 0:29:48.200
<v Speaker 1>to after work in the eighties? Give me names, give

0:29:48.240 --> 0:29:50.720
<v Speaker 1>me specific names, And of course they all disagreed about

0:29:50.760 --> 0:29:53.920
<v Speaker 1>which was the one that the cast would go to.

0:29:54.960 --> 0:29:56.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I was curious to ask you about you know,

0:29:56.720 --> 0:29:59.840
<v Speaker 2>what does Dale's character look like in twenty twenty three?

0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Are we still facing people presenting the news with you know,

0:30:05.120 --> 0:30:09.040
<v Speaker 2>masculine archetypes. I mean, are we now seeing a difference?

0:30:09.520 --> 0:30:12.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah? I think I genuinely think we are. I think

0:30:12.240 --> 0:30:16.040
<v Speaker 1>Dale in twenty twenty three. I mean, you know, look

0:30:16.080 --> 0:30:19.200
<v Speaker 1>at Jeremy Fernandez and you know, I mean there's a

0:30:19.280 --> 0:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>number of out we're presenters looking at Real to Jacobs,

0:30:23.240 --> 0:30:27.760
<v Speaker 1>and I feel like Dale would be having a wonderful

0:30:27.800 --> 0:30:31.600
<v Speaker 1>time in twenty twenty three. And it's quite. It's tragic

0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:35.640
<v Speaker 1>that he's stuck in nineteen eighty seven and he's been

0:30:35.640 --> 0:30:39.120
<v Speaker 1>through a lot of trauma, and he's very ambitious, and yeah,

0:30:40.280 --> 0:30:43.560
<v Speaker 1>I genuinely feel in my mind the Dale of twenty

0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:46.200
<v Speaker 1>twenty three would be in a much much better place.

0:30:46.480 --> 0:30:46.920
<v Speaker 1>I think so.

0:30:47.120 --> 0:30:50.040
<v Speaker 2>But then I also wonder whether or not a gay

0:30:50.080 --> 0:30:52.560
<v Speaker 2>man in his position in this day and age, because

0:30:52.600 --> 0:30:57.560
<v Speaker 2>he idolizes Helen Norvil, you know, his obsession with her.

0:30:58.160 --> 0:31:01.959
<v Speaker 2>It's unknown really as to whether not it's even sexual really,

0:31:02.320 --> 0:31:05.320
<v Speaker 2>And maybe he's using a for promotion, you know what

0:31:05.360 --> 0:31:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Like is in maybe he knows that he's

0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:09.200
<v Speaker 2>going to get more work if he makes this thing work.

0:31:09.240 --> 0:31:10.680
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think it can sort of be everything all

0:31:10.720 --> 0:31:13.120
<v Speaker 1>at once. I mean that's how I look at it. Like.

0:31:13.680 --> 0:31:15.400
<v Speaker 1>And I know people can look at Dale and Helen

0:31:15.440 --> 0:31:17.040
<v Speaker 1>and go, oh, is it just are they just using

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:19.200
<v Speaker 1>each other? Is it a marriage of convenience or whatever?

0:31:19.520 --> 0:31:22.040
<v Speaker 1>I sort of feel like, well, I mean, they really

0:31:22.080 --> 0:31:25.400
<v Speaker 1>do love each other. I think on one level, I

0:31:25.440 --> 0:31:28.000
<v Speaker 1>think it's probably fair to say that the driving force

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:31.880
<v Speaker 1>and their relationship is not necessarily the physical passion. But

0:31:32.400 --> 0:31:34.560
<v Speaker 1>also I don't think it's without that, So it's a

0:31:34.600 --> 0:31:37.760
<v Speaker 1>complicated thing, and then yeah, you can't extricate it from

0:31:37.760 --> 0:31:40.720
<v Speaker 1>the fact it's also very professionally beneficial for them to

0:31:40.720 --> 0:31:44.719
<v Speaker 1>be together. But I find, you know, in life, that

0:31:44.840 --> 0:31:48.600
<v Speaker 1>all these motivations can come together at the same time,

0:31:48.640 --> 0:31:50.640
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know that any one of them rules

0:31:50.640 --> 0:31:54.920
<v Speaker 1>out any of any of the other ones. So yeah,

0:31:55.080 --> 0:32:00.440
<v Speaker 1>but I hope that people watch it and keep guessing.

0:32:01.560 --> 0:32:03.920
<v Speaker 2>Michael, you're supposed to know the answer to these questions.

0:32:03.920 --> 0:32:06.520
<v Speaker 2>You're supposed to feel like you know that.

0:32:06.560 --> 0:32:08.280
<v Speaker 1>Well, you know that. For me, it's like they're so

0:32:08.720 --> 0:32:11.440
<v Speaker 1>they're so sort of real and multifaceted that it's like

0:32:12.800 --> 0:32:15.760
<v Speaker 1>talking about you know, your very close family members, order

0:32:15.880 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>you know them so well that yes, there's a really

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:22.320
<v Speaker 1>ambitious part of them, but there's also this tenderness and

0:32:22.520 --> 0:32:25.760
<v Speaker 1>you know, and then there's a yearning for outside passion,

0:32:25.800 --> 0:32:28.120
<v Speaker 1>but then there is also passion between them, so you know,

0:32:28.200 --> 0:32:30.240
<v Speaker 1>I almost find it hard to sum them up.

0:32:30.520 --> 0:32:32.960
<v Speaker 2>I have so much admiration for you in the sense

0:32:33.040 --> 0:32:36.640
<v Speaker 2>of not necessarily knowing the answers to these things, still

0:32:36.680 --> 0:32:40.000
<v Speaker 2>your own questions about these characters. I think that is

0:32:40.120 --> 0:32:41.640
<v Speaker 2>quite amazing.

0:32:41.840 --> 0:32:44.080
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, yeah, but also part of it. I mean,

0:32:44.080 --> 0:32:47.000
<v Speaker 1>I genuinely feel like, you know, in terms of my

0:32:47.080 --> 0:32:49.960
<v Speaker 1>own queenness and everything, I just didn't know who I

0:32:50.000 --> 0:32:52.160
<v Speaker 1>was for the longest time. And I feel like Dale,

0:32:52.960 --> 0:32:56.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, doesn't know who he is really. And also

0:32:56.600 --> 0:32:58.520
<v Speaker 1>you could say I'm not conflating these two things. But

0:32:58.600 --> 0:33:01.720
<v Speaker 1>Helen with her mental health, well, she clearly struggles with

0:33:01.720 --> 0:33:05.520
<v Speaker 1>her mental health, but she doesn't have a label for it.

0:33:05.560 --> 0:33:09.200
<v Speaker 1>She doesn't know what it is. She's sitting in this

0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.600
<v Speaker 1>space where she can tell that there's a problem, but

0:33:12.960 --> 0:33:15.120
<v Speaker 1>she doesn't certainly doesn't know how to treat it, and

0:33:15.160 --> 0:33:18.000
<v Speaker 1>everything that's been done so far doesn't work. So I

0:33:18.040 --> 0:33:21.000
<v Speaker 1>do think that the news reader with this particular show,

0:33:21.400 --> 0:33:26.200
<v Speaker 1>there is this unknown all these mysteries about the characters,

0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:28.560
<v Speaker 1>but their mysteries to the characters themselves. They don't know

0:33:28.600 --> 0:33:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the answers to them, and they're living at a time

0:33:31.360 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 1>where they can't get those answers. But I feel like

0:33:33.400 --> 0:33:35.720
<v Speaker 1>it's probably more specific to this show. I mean other

0:33:35.760 --> 0:33:37.600
<v Speaker 1>shows that I've worked on. You know, if you are

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.000
<v Speaker 1>asking me about like The Offspring Cast, I'll probably give

0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:42.560
<v Speaker 1>you very direct answers about what I thought. But with

0:33:42.680 --> 0:33:46.240
<v Speaker 1>Dale and Helen, they're really complicated, and not that the

0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Offspring Casts weren't. Of course, they're really complicated, but there's

0:33:48.800 --> 0:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>a Yeah, they're stuck in a space of not quite

0:33:52.680 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 1>knowing who they are, and that's what's interesting about them.

0:33:56.400 --> 0:33:58.960
<v Speaker 1>I think often don't tell you what to think about

0:33:58.960 --> 0:34:01.040
<v Speaker 1>a moment as much you you know, which is why

0:34:01.120 --> 0:34:03.960
<v Speaker 1>I think people can have different perspectives on the characters.

0:34:03.680 --> 0:34:05.640
<v Speaker 2>And why we're talking about it, you know, which I

0:34:05.680 --> 0:34:08.000
<v Speaker 2>think is amazing. Like if I'm talking about it with you,

0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 2>a creator of this, and you're like, well, maybe it's this,

0:34:11.400 --> 0:34:13.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, I think that's really fascinating.

0:34:13.000 --> 0:34:16.040
<v Speaker 1>And I think I think I would say the same

0:34:16.080 --> 0:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>and Emma, like all of us that work on it

0:34:17.960 --> 0:34:24.200
<v Speaker 1>and the other writers, you know, we would Yeah for us,

0:34:24.239 --> 0:34:28.920
<v Speaker 1>they're just like, there's really multifaceted or broken, confused people

0:34:29.600 --> 0:34:33.120
<v Speaker 1>that Yeah, they're not easy to sum.

0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:35.040
<v Speaker 2>Up, do you think that, you know? I mean, Helen

0:34:35.120 --> 0:34:36.799
<v Speaker 2>really has to fight tooth and nail in what she

0:34:36.880 --> 0:34:39.719
<v Speaker 2>believes in. And there is a lot of Helen storming

0:34:39.760 --> 0:34:43.200
<v Speaker 2>through the newsroom, you know, which is so funny because

0:34:43.200 --> 0:34:45.160
<v Speaker 2>my partner and I have been walking around our apartment

0:34:45.400 --> 0:34:48.920
<v Speaker 2>doing the Helen novel yeah, but there's a lot of

0:34:48.920 --> 0:34:50.839
<v Speaker 2>that in season two. But do you reckon that kind

0:34:50.880 --> 0:34:52.920
<v Speaker 2>of fighting is still happening in newsrooms the way that

0:34:52.960 --> 0:34:53.760
<v Speaker 2>it did in the eighties.

0:34:53.920 --> 0:34:57.600
<v Speaker 1>Well, I mean, I'm sure people are still very passionately

0:34:57.680 --> 0:35:00.040
<v Speaker 1>advocating for things, and I'm sure things get heated. I

0:35:00.080 --> 0:35:02.640
<v Speaker 1>would like to think that we're not still in that

0:35:02.680 --> 0:35:05.799
<v Speaker 1>stage of the crazy yelling and that people aren't like

0:35:05.920 --> 0:35:09.960
<v Speaker 1>bosses like William mcinness's character anymore. I do, you know,

0:35:10.000 --> 0:35:13.560
<v Speaker 1>And that's just general more ahiness, more of an awareness

0:35:13.560 --> 0:35:16.120
<v Speaker 1>of that, and that seems to be reflected by you know,

0:35:16.160 --> 0:35:18.040
<v Speaker 1>because I've spoken to a lot of journalists that have

0:35:18.120 --> 0:35:20.759
<v Speaker 1>been in the media, you know, from the eighties or

0:35:20.840 --> 0:35:24.520
<v Speaker 1>nineties until now, and they do talk about that change.

0:35:24.680 --> 0:35:28.719
<v Speaker 1>I still think there's tensions, and there's deadlines, and there's

0:35:28.800 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 1>people losing patients, but there is no by and large,

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:35.920
<v Speaker 1>there's a lot less of the screaming and door slamming

0:35:35.960 --> 0:35:37.160
<v Speaker 1>and all that sort of stuff. But it really was

0:35:37.160 --> 0:35:40.200
<v Speaker 1>a feature of newsrooms back then. Everyone said the same

0:35:40.239 --> 0:35:42.880
<v Speaker 1>thing that that's how it rolled. And I certainly know

0:35:43.360 --> 0:35:46.160
<v Speaker 1>that commercial radio can be a hotbed for that sort

0:35:46.200 --> 0:35:48.360
<v Speaker 1>of stuff, and maybe it stayed that way in commercial

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.920
<v Speaker 1>radio even longer than it did in TV newsroom, So

0:35:52.400 --> 0:35:53.279
<v Speaker 1>that's my sense of it.

0:35:53.320 --> 0:35:56.160
<v Speaker 2>Anyway, we have to talk about Mark Downey because she

0:35:56.280 --> 0:35:58.600
<v Speaker 2>is so iconic in his role. It's just such a

0:35:58.640 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 2>shock to men season one about how amazing she really is.

0:36:02.800 --> 0:36:05.000
<v Speaker 2>She's such a brilliant actress. She's a very good comedian,

0:36:05.040 --> 0:36:07.880
<v Speaker 2>which we've always known. I wanted to know what feedback

0:36:07.920 --> 0:36:10.839
<v Speaker 2>did you get from her being in the season one

0:36:11.239 --> 0:36:12.480
<v Speaker 2>and because she would have had a lot of time

0:36:12.480 --> 0:36:14.480
<v Speaker 2>as a real person with people coming up to her

0:36:14.520 --> 0:36:16.160
<v Speaker 2>and talking to her about how much of a bitch

0:36:16.200 --> 0:36:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that lady saw they see unt but I by shopping center,

0:36:23.080 --> 0:36:25.680
<v Speaker 2>she might come up to me and be very protective

0:36:25.719 --> 0:36:28.120
<v Speaker 2>of this character. What kind of feedback did she give

0:36:28.160 --> 0:36:29.160
<v Speaker 2>you between seasons?

0:36:29.520 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh, she's so gorgeous, And basically the feedback was just

0:36:33.120 --> 0:36:36.399
<v Speaker 1>how much she enjoyed the experience, how much she loved

0:36:36.400 --> 0:36:38.960
<v Speaker 1>the reaction. She definitely said that she was flooded with

0:36:39.200 --> 0:36:41.640
<v Speaker 1>responses and that she very much enjoyed just so many

0:36:41.640 --> 0:36:44.360
<v Speaker 1>people reaching out to her, you know, texting and everything

0:36:44.400 --> 0:36:46.960
<v Speaker 1>like that. She loved it, and you know, she's just

0:36:47.120 --> 0:36:49.919
<v Speaker 1>very much wanted to continue with more of the same

0:36:49.960 --> 0:36:53.839
<v Speaker 1>there was She absolutely understood that her character often can

0:36:53.880 --> 0:36:57.240
<v Speaker 1>be let's just say, passive, aggressive or worse or manipulative.

0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:01.879
<v Speaker 2>I know this person. I know you like I feel

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:03.160
<v Speaker 2>like we all know this person.

0:37:03.600 --> 0:37:06.279
<v Speaker 1>They're out there for sure. But she loved it, and

0:37:06.320 --> 0:37:10.040
<v Speaker 1>I still remember. I remember season one she came in

0:37:10.080 --> 0:37:13.040
<v Speaker 1>to do her sort of adr, her dialogue replacement. It

0:37:13.080 --> 0:37:15.440
<v Speaker 1>was the first time she got to see some scenes

0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:17.719
<v Speaker 1>and I played her some of the scenes, some of

0:37:17.760 --> 0:37:20.279
<v Speaker 1>the moments that I loved, and I remember she got

0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:22.000
<v Speaker 1>this big smile on her face and went, oh, she's

0:37:22.080 --> 0:37:26.920
<v Speaker 1>such a bitch, but with absolute delight, and so.

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:29.840
<v Speaker 2>You know, it makes me so happy.

0:37:29.920 --> 0:37:33.160
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and she's just It was wonderful coming back, just

0:37:33.239 --> 0:37:36.960
<v Speaker 1>knowing how Marg approached the role. And she has a

0:37:37.000 --> 0:37:41.760
<v Speaker 1>few scenes with Maria Angelico plays a very innocent makeup

0:37:41.880 --> 0:37:48.680
<v Speaker 1>artist Cheryl, and Marg's character very shrewdly manipulates her and I,

0:37:49.719 --> 0:37:52.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, we just love developing that sort of stuff.

0:37:52.640 --> 0:37:55.480
<v Speaker 1>It reminded us of the movie of the book Rebecca

0:37:55.840 --> 0:37:59.680
<v Speaker 1>with Missus Danvers and the notion of an innocent coming

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.160
<v Speaker 1>into Marks. We also get a big showdown between Anna

0:38:03.560 --> 0:38:07.799
<v Speaker 1>and Mark that was also, I mean, yeah, I love

0:38:07.840 --> 0:38:10.040
<v Speaker 1>the character too. She's another character that I would be

0:38:10.080 --> 0:38:11.600
<v Speaker 1>just happy to watch the Evelyn Show.

0:38:12.920 --> 0:38:15.279
<v Speaker 2>So would, and I hate that woman in real life.

0:38:15.320 --> 0:38:17.960
<v Speaker 2>Whenever that woman in real life comes across my table,

0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I've seen you. They're the master of manipulation,

0:38:22.040 --> 0:38:26.360
<v Speaker 2>the master of conversation and the importance of saying less

0:38:26.800 --> 0:38:28.720
<v Speaker 2>but articulating the most.

0:38:30.200 --> 0:38:33.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, while she evolves a little bit, I won't say anymore,

0:38:33.160 --> 0:38:35.239
<v Speaker 1>but you'll have to just see where she winds up

0:38:35.280 --> 0:38:35.759
<v Speaker 1>at the end.

0:38:36.000 --> 0:38:38.320
<v Speaker 2>Well, A great way to tease this season is something

0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:41.719
<v Speaker 2>from your perspective. Is there a favorite moment that you

0:38:41.880 --> 0:38:45.640
<v Speaker 2>are looking forward to audiences seeing, you know, not of

0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:48.560
<v Speaker 2>course not giving it away, but you know, just allowing

0:38:48.560 --> 0:38:51.120
<v Speaker 2>people to do this podcast to have that moment watching

0:38:51.160 --> 0:38:53.120
<v Speaker 2>this series where they go, this is what they were

0:38:53.120 --> 0:38:53.680
<v Speaker 2>talking about.

0:38:54.239 --> 0:38:57.920
<v Speaker 1>Hunter page Lechard plays this role in it, and I

0:38:57.920 --> 0:39:01.520
<v Speaker 1>think he's so magnetic and great and I'm just really

0:39:01.520 --> 0:39:04.200
<v Speaker 1>excited for people to see him because I think I

0:39:04.239 --> 0:39:06.960
<v Speaker 1>still think of Hunter Pasler. I'm playing teenagers, and the

0:39:07.040 --> 0:39:09.600
<v Speaker 1>character he's playing now is very much not a teenager,

0:39:09.680 --> 0:39:11.960
<v Speaker 1>and he looks like Prince.

0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:18.799
<v Speaker 2>He moves like Prince. You know there's asexual dance moves

0:39:18.840 --> 0:39:20.279
<v Speaker 2>that he manages to do that.

0:39:20.320 --> 0:39:23.520
<v Speaker 1>Is very well. He's hunter, comes from a dancing family,

0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and that was his one note. Actually, we had a

0:39:26.120 --> 0:39:29.040
<v Speaker 1>we had a scene where he's playing some Marsha heins

0:39:29.080 --> 0:39:30.320
<v Speaker 1>and he says, can I get up and have a

0:39:30.320 --> 0:39:33.520
<v Speaker 1>little bit of a boogie? And I said, uk, whoever?

0:39:33.520 --> 0:39:35.920
<v Speaker 2>It even says Marshall heines in the final product. I

0:39:36.000 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 2>think he just keeps saying Marsha, and we don't know

0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:43.000
<v Speaker 2>until we hear Marsha. I'm not sure. I'm probably gonna

0:39:43.000 --> 0:39:45.759
<v Speaker 2>get standing. We're going to be corrected. It feels really

0:39:45.760 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 2>obvious to ask this question to you, but do you

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:49.239
<v Speaker 2>know if we're going to get a season three? Are

0:39:49.280 --> 0:39:50.920
<v Speaker 2>you what's going on with this? I know?

0:39:51.040 --> 0:39:53.400
<v Speaker 1>I wish I could say, no, you can't tell me.

0:39:53.880 --> 0:39:56.279
<v Speaker 1>Well that's a case. No, no, no, no, I'm saying I

0:39:56.320 --> 0:39:57.160
<v Speaker 1>don't know, I don't know.

0:39:57.360 --> 0:39:59.680
<v Speaker 2>My contracts up for negotiation, give me my money.

0:40:00.560 --> 0:40:03.200
<v Speaker 1>No, no, no, I personally would love there to be a

0:40:03.239 --> 0:40:06.160
<v Speaker 1>season three, but no, I don't. I don't know yet,

0:40:06.200 --> 0:40:08.759
<v Speaker 1>and we'll have to wait and see how season two

0:40:09.520 --> 0:40:10.160
<v Speaker 1>is received.

0:40:10.520 --> 0:40:12.799
<v Speaker 2>Is it harder to get multiple series made? And how

0:40:12.800 --> 0:40:15.440
<v Speaker 2>do you go about securing the next season? Do you

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:18.520
<v Speaker 2>just sit back and hope for the best, or are you,

0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.400
<v Speaker 2>you know, sending them pages? Are you like, what do

0:40:21.440 --> 0:40:23.440
<v Speaker 2>you do in this position to make sure that we

0:40:23.480 --> 0:40:25.600
<v Speaker 2>get you get more to tell more story?

0:40:25.800 --> 0:40:28.880
<v Speaker 1>Oh well, yeah, you absolutely develop your plan for what

0:40:28.880 --> 0:40:31.279
<v Speaker 1>you would do and hope, you know, just to show people, look,

0:40:31.320 --> 0:40:34.120
<v Speaker 1>we've got great ideas. Here are great ideas to go forward.

0:40:34.480 --> 0:40:38.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it does get harder with every season because

0:40:39.040 --> 0:40:41.680
<v Speaker 1>I think especially in the streaming world, you know, it's

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.359
<v Speaker 1>the new is often the most valuable, like what's going

0:40:44.400 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 1>to grab subscribers new subscribers. So that's why you don't

0:40:47.760 --> 0:40:50.560
<v Speaker 1>get those long running shows the way that you used to,

0:40:51.160 --> 0:40:54.359
<v Speaker 1>with a few exceptions like yeah, it's always about new

0:40:54.600 --> 0:40:57.840
<v Speaker 1>short run limited series or whatever. But you know, the

0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:01.319
<v Speaker 1>show sold really, really well, and the cast of now

0:41:01.400 --> 0:41:04.560
<v Speaker 1>bigger draws for audiences than they were when we started.

0:41:04.840 --> 0:41:07.080
<v Speaker 1>And I know, I mean, I'm you know, if we

0:41:07.080 --> 0:41:09.560
<v Speaker 1>were to keep going, we get into nineteen eighty nine,

0:41:09.600 --> 0:41:12.680
<v Speaker 1>which that is an absolute blockbuster year, like that's got

0:41:12.719 --> 0:41:17.560
<v Speaker 1>the Berlin Wall and it's got Tianneman Square and just

0:41:17.640 --> 0:41:21.840
<v Speaker 1>these absolutely epic news stories. So yeah. I mean, I'm

0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.359
<v Speaker 1>very happy to be on the record saying I want it.

0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:26.279
<v Speaker 1>I really want it to happen. I think we could

0:41:26.280 --> 0:41:28.040
<v Speaker 1>do a great season, but you know it's in the

0:41:28.080 --> 0:41:30.840
<v Speaker 1>hands of the gods of what's in the hands of

0:41:30.880 --> 0:41:31.360
<v Speaker 1>the audience.

0:41:31.400 --> 0:41:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Really, before you go, I was gonna say, do you

0:41:34.480 --> 0:41:39.239
<v Speaker 2>think because we had like this season of rebooted shows

0:41:39.280 --> 0:41:42.520
<v Speaker 2>for a period of time, you know, streamers were launching

0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:45.560
<v Speaker 2>with a reboot of a popular brand, how would you

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:49.520
<v Speaker 2>feel if in ten years time they rebooted one of

0:41:49.560 --> 0:41:51.600
<v Speaker 2>your shows? Could you see that happening? And I wanted

0:41:51.640 --> 0:41:53.600
<v Speaker 2>to know how that would make you feel if someone

0:41:53.600 --> 0:41:56.160
<v Speaker 2>else was doing that with your So I've never thought

0:41:56.200 --> 0:41:56.600
<v Speaker 2>about it.

0:41:56.640 --> 0:42:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Actually, my gut reaction is I'd be delighted because I

0:42:01.880 --> 0:42:04.799
<v Speaker 1>feel like it would just be well, I mean, you know,

0:42:05.400 --> 0:42:08.880
<v Speaker 1>you want to try and write characters that lodge in

0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:11.440
<v Speaker 1>people's hearts and minds, and if they have to the

0:42:11.440 --> 0:42:13.960
<v Speaker 1>extent that people want to reboot the show, then you know,

0:42:14.080 --> 0:42:17.759
<v Speaker 1>that's great. Also, I think i'd probably get some some

0:42:17.960 --> 0:42:19.960
<v Speaker 1>sort of residual sport, so that'd be good.

0:42:20.719 --> 0:42:23.640
<v Speaker 2>So you think about Michael, that's not enough and with

0:42:23.719 --> 0:42:24.520
<v Speaker 2>the money.

0:42:24.800 --> 0:42:28.440
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting because I myself don't and would you know,

0:42:28.840 --> 0:42:31.640
<v Speaker 1>once I'm done with the show, I think I'm pretty done.

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Like I remember Offspring finished with season five and I

0:42:34.360 --> 0:42:36.719
<v Speaker 1>was done, and that that was one of the times

0:42:36.719 --> 0:42:38.480
<v Speaker 1>where and you wouldn't even call it was a reboot

0:42:38.480 --> 0:42:40.160
<v Speaker 1>because it was just two years later they picked it

0:42:40.239 --> 0:42:43.160
<v Speaker 1>up again. But I was, like I was, I had

0:42:43.239 --> 0:42:46.400
<v Speaker 1>moved on, and so I can't. I don't think I

0:42:46.440 --> 0:42:49.440
<v Speaker 1>would ever personally want to take something from the past

0:42:49.719 --> 0:42:51.759
<v Speaker 1>and reimagine it. I'd rather do something new. But if

0:42:51.760 --> 0:42:54.799
<v Speaker 1>someone else wanted to do it, yeah, sure, I'd be

0:42:54.840 --> 0:42:56.440
<v Speaker 1>thrilled to see what they came up with.

0:42:57.520 --> 0:43:00.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's your gift. It'll be your gift to them anyway.

0:43:00.320 --> 0:43:01.920
<v Speaker 2>The last question I have to ask you before you go,

0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:04.040
<v Speaker 2>what is something from behind the scenes of making the

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:07.560
<v Speaker 2>second series something weir as an audience won't see that

0:43:07.760 --> 0:43:09.799
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a behind the scenes secret from your

0:43:09.840 --> 0:43:12.160
<v Speaker 2>perspective of making coming back and doing this again.

0:43:12.440 --> 0:43:14.640
<v Speaker 1>Oh I suppose. I suppose in some ways, the most

0:43:14.680 --> 0:43:17.319
<v Speaker 1>interesting thing that you won't see is that you know,

0:43:17.360 --> 0:43:21.040
<v Speaker 1>we are very lucky that we've got the entire ensemble back,

0:43:21.040 --> 0:43:22.960
<v Speaker 1>which was no small feet, considering so many of them

0:43:23.000 --> 0:43:28.440
<v Speaker 1>were so employed. But definitely one of the tricky situations

0:43:28.440 --> 0:43:32.120
<v Speaker 1>we were in was with Chai Hansen, who plays Tim,

0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:35.120
<v Speaker 1>got this amazing role on Night Sky with Sissy Space,

0:43:35.160 --> 0:43:38.560
<v Speaker 1>like a huge Amazon show, which was so brilliant. Unfortunately

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:41.960
<v Speaker 1>for us, it meant that he was committed to this

0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:45.040
<v Speaker 1>Amazon show and there was really no guarantee that we

0:43:45.080 --> 0:43:48.759
<v Speaker 1>could get him. And I love that character and I

0:43:48.880 --> 0:43:51.160
<v Speaker 1>just felt like he has to make a return appearance

0:43:51.160 --> 0:43:53.239
<v Speaker 1>in the second series. It just has to happen. And

0:43:53.320 --> 0:43:56.240
<v Speaker 1>I know that Chai loved the show, but of course,

0:43:56.400 --> 0:44:00.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, big Amazon International show. And also the thing

0:44:00.400 --> 0:44:02.359
<v Speaker 1>was at the end of the first season he had

0:44:02.480 --> 0:44:05.320
<v Speaker 1>left the newsroom. So in actual fact, like we didn't,

0:44:05.400 --> 0:44:07.440
<v Speaker 1>it wouldn't We wouldn't have needed to explain it if

0:44:07.480 --> 0:44:10.399
<v Speaker 1>he didn't appear again. I just emotionally did not want

0:44:10.440 --> 0:44:13.279
<v Speaker 1>to let the character go, and basically we were sort

0:44:13.280 --> 0:44:16.840
<v Speaker 1>of advised, look, he should maybe consider just moving on

0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:20.120
<v Speaker 1>and not incorporating him, but I couldn't. So what I

0:44:20.160 --> 0:44:24.640
<v Speaker 1>did was I sort of in my mind, I developed

0:44:24.640 --> 0:44:27.319
<v Speaker 1>two different pathways for the show, one where we got

0:44:27.440 --> 0:44:29.760
<v Speaker 1>Chai Handsom back and one where we didn't get him back.

0:44:30.160 --> 0:44:33.319
<v Speaker 1>And to make to make the stakes even higher. We

0:44:33.320 --> 0:44:36.600
<v Speaker 1>were not going to get final confirmation on whether or

0:44:36.640 --> 0:44:40.160
<v Speaker 1>not we could get him until we were already shooting,

0:44:40.320 --> 0:44:43.759
<v Speaker 1>so I was sitting there poised. I wrote all the

0:44:43.800 --> 0:44:48.520
<v Speaker 1>scripts with you know, with the episodes that have Chai

0:44:48.600 --> 0:44:51.240
<v Speaker 1>in them, and I hoped, like hell, we were going

0:44:51.320 --> 0:44:53.719
<v Speaker 1>to get him. And I knew that Chai was doing

0:44:53.800 --> 0:44:55.720
<v Speaker 1>his best with his people, but we were just sitting

0:44:55.719 --> 0:44:57.879
<v Speaker 1>there holding our breast. But in my mind I had

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:00.960
<v Speaker 1>a whole other version and if that had happened, if

0:45:01.000 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 1>we got the call saying we're really sorry you can't

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:04.799
<v Speaker 1>get hy, then I would have just had to like

0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:08.399
<v Speaker 1>suddenly rewrite a lot of the series and stay up

0:45:08.400 --> 0:45:11.279
<v Speaker 1>all not doing it. But as you can imagine, I

0:45:11.480 --> 0:45:16.680
<v Speaker 1>was so relieved when Chai thankfully managed to make it

0:45:16.719 --> 0:45:20.399
<v Speaker 1>work and managed to get to Melbourne for a few

0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:23.680
<v Speaker 1>weeks to shoot his role in the second series. That

0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:26.040
<v Speaker 1>was a very happy day. And the audience will have

0:45:26.040 --> 0:45:29.040
<v Speaker 1>no idea that there was this whole other alternate version

0:45:29.200 --> 0:45:32.959
<v Speaker 1>where Tim remained absent, but I'm thrilled that he was back.

0:45:33.160 --> 0:45:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Mate. I just want to say thank you so much

0:45:34.920 --> 0:45:38.000
<v Speaker 2>for your generosity with your time. I absolutely always love

0:45:38.080 --> 0:45:41.239
<v Speaker 2>talking to you. There's something so electric about someone being

0:45:41.320 --> 0:45:43.440
<v Speaker 2>so passionate about what it is that they do and

0:45:43.480 --> 0:45:46.400
<v Speaker 2>doing it so well. So yeah, thank you, oh my pleasure.

0:45:46.520 --> 0:45:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Thanks