1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,560 Speaker 1: Now the federal government is set to inject four hundred 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,119 Speaker 1: and thirty six million dollars across the nation into improving 3 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: education and employment outcomes for Australians. Now, while in Darwin, 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: the Minister for Skills and Training, Brendan O'Connor, announced a 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: specific Indigenous stream to the Government Skills for Education and Employment, 6 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: the Foundation Skills Program to improve literacy, numeracy and digital skills. 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:26,040 Speaker 1: Well for first nations Ozzie's, but we also know that 8 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: this is actually a concern that's right across the board. 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,480 Speaker 1: Now the Minister joins me in the studio right now. 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Good morning Katie. 11 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,879 Speaker 3: Great to have you back in Darwi. It's good to 12 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:36,200 Speaker 3: be here, always good to be here. 13 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: Now tell me a little bit more about why this 14 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: four hundred and thirty six million dollars is needed. 15 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,480 Speaker 4: Well, I was surprised, to tell you the truth when 16 00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 4: I was briefed on the extent to which we have 17 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 4: problems with literacy and numeracy and digital literacy across the country. 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 4: One in five Australian adults have difficulties reading and writing 19 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 4: and adding up to be a blunt as that I 20 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 4: mean by varying degrees, and what we need to do 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 4: is lift that lift that level of capacity because it's 22 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:11,720 Speaker 4: not just for work, it's for living. You can't really 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:15,160 Speaker 4: get through life with having the most basic of skills, 24 00:01:15,319 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 4: and given the economies changing so rapidly and jobs are 25 00:01:18,440 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 4: changing too, if you don't have those skills, you can't 26 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,039 Speaker 4: learn extra skills. So we are investing more money. But 27 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 4: again just to your point in your instruction, when it 28 00:01:29,600 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 4: comes to in First Nations Australians, you see a doubling 29 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 4: of that. So rather than one in five it's two 30 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 4: in five go to remote areas, it can be up 31 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 4: to three or more in five people have these issues. 32 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 4: So we are looking to firstly invest more, provide remove 33 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 4: the eligibility restrictions so that people who are looking to 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 4: access those programs can do so. In the case of 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 4: First Nations or Indigenous communities, we want them to be 36 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 4: more involved because what we've found is, and we've got 37 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 4: a pilot and Tenant Creek I was there in October 38 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 4: last year, what we find is you involved the local community, 39 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:10,240 Speaker 4: particularly if they're participants and teachers, you see much better 40 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 4: outcomes of the participants of those programs, and success forgets 41 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 4: success once you see people coming out with these skills, 42 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 4: it's amazing how others wanted to actually enter into those programs. 43 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you can't be what you can't see, right, 44 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:26,239 Speaker 1: You've got to be able to see those different people 45 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:28,360 Speaker 1: being able to, you know, to do different things and 46 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: gain those skills. 47 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 2: Tell me. 48 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 1: Firstly, so with the four hundred and thirty six million, 49 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: so is that across the border? 50 00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:35,519 Speaker 3: Is that just an Indigenous. 51 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 4: Community that's across the board. But there's two There's one 52 00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 4: other thing I shouldn't mention. 53 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 2: I met. 54 00:02:39,960 --> 00:02:45,080 Speaker 4: I was with Manderri McCarthy and Luke Gosling yesterday, but 55 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 4: also Paul Kirby. He's the state minister here and he 56 00:02:48,639 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 4: and other state he's the territory ministry and he and 57 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 4: other state and territory ministers is negotiating with me a 58 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,239 Speaker 4: national Skills agreement for the next five years that will 59 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:01,240 Speaker 4: also involve an extra investment in foundation skills and an 60 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 4: extra investment in Indigenous skills because what we know is, 61 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 4: I mean, the gap between Indigenous and non Indigenous people 62 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:10,639 Speaker 4: when it comes to jobs, when it comes to skills 63 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 4: is too It's so you know, it's too large, and 64 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 4: it shouldn't be there shouldn't be that gap. 65 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: Well, and also I guess what we see sometimes is 66 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 1: that there might be different programs and there might be 67 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: different educational courses that people can take, but then there's 68 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: not opportunities for people who want to live on community. 69 00:03:28,280 --> 00:03:30,560 Speaker 3: So here is there some work in that way as well? 70 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 4: There is And look, you know, we were talking one 71 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 4: of the one of the participants of the of the 72 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 4: roundtable we had at Charles Darwin University yesterday talk to 73 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 4: us about the Rangers program. Now that's been a very 74 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 4: successful program across the country and in the territory obviously 75 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 4: a really really good, good example of what can work 76 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 4: where you can be both in country and you can 77 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,200 Speaker 4: actually live in those two worlds and be really productive 78 00:03:54,520 --> 00:03:58,000 Speaker 4: and critical for the environment, for security, for so many 79 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 4: other things. But one of theroblems is that there's no 80 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:05,200 Speaker 4: pre programs for foundation skills for people to enter the 81 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 4: Rangers programs, and so they find themselves with really enthusiastic participants, 82 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:14,320 Speaker 4: but sometimes some of them don't have those deficiencies. One 83 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,320 Speaker 4: of the problems with government, I think, is if it 84 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 4: doesn't link up its programs, they don't connect. Therefore they 85 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,159 Speaker 4: don't ultimately lead to good outcomes. So I was talking 86 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,479 Speaker 4: to the Rangers Program participant about, well, we can be 87 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 4: looking at pre programs so that people can equip them 88 00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:33,280 Speaker 4: skills with literacy and numeracy so when they then enter 89 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 4: the Rangers program they can learn the rest of it. 90 00:04:36,440 --> 00:04:40,279 Speaker 4: And it's that joining up of commitment. Whether it's industry 91 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 4: or government, it's joining things up so they work. It's 92 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 4: the same about acquiring skills. If people can see the 93 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 4: opportunity of a job, their attitude to learning changes dramatically. 94 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:53,839 Speaker 4: If they love something and they see they need to 95 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,359 Speaker 4: get these skills to get to that point, that line 96 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,279 Speaker 4: of Once they have that line of sight or what 97 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,160 Speaker 4: they want and they know what they need to do 98 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,680 Speaker 4: to get there, it changes their attitude to learning. And 99 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 4: I think we need to be much more strategic and 100 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 4: much more planned about the way we connect programs and 101 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 4: working with employers. 102 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 1: Now, who's going to be sort of overseeing the way 103 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 1: in which this money is delivered and the way in 104 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: which these streams are delivered. Yeah. 105 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:21,919 Speaker 4: Look, because we've realized, and we're realizing it through the 106 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 4: pilot program at Tenant Creek and other places around Australia, 107 00:05:26,600 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 4: that if we involve local communities far from the beginning, 108 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 4: and they are also participants and teachers in the program, 109 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:37,159 Speaker 4: then we're going to get better outcomes to what we're 110 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:40,560 Speaker 4: seeking from communities is for in the case of the 111 00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 4: indigenous programs, we're looking at them joining up with rtos, 112 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 4: register training organizations like a TAFE and putting in a 113 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:52,960 Speaker 4: bid for investments. So what we want to see is 114 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,840 Speaker 4: a plan as to how they would go about creating 115 00:05:56,839 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 4: the program, who would be their partners in that and 116 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 4: the apartment my department would be involved in providing support 117 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 4: on the basis of the on the basis of how 118 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 4: well planned that bid is, if you like. So the grants, 119 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 4: there will be grants. We will be issuing soon information 120 00:06:16,120 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 4: about how those grants can be applied for. We'd expect 121 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 4: collaboration with the community organization and RTO and others so 122 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 4: that you really understand that there's expertise involved. But again, 123 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,560 Speaker 4: I can't emphasize how important it is CUDY for the 124 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:35,960 Speaker 4: local community to be involved rather than just a complete 125 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 4: top down thing which doesn't work unless there's engagement and 126 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 4: genuine consultation. 127 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: And will there be some KPIs that do need to 128 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:45,520 Speaker 1: be met because I guess you know, like at different 129 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 1: times we hear of huge amounts of federal money coming 130 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,599 Speaker 1: into the Northern Territory, and sometimes it seems like the 131 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: money comes in and there isn't the outcomes that people expect. 132 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,880 Speaker 4: To say, So to me, the metrics ultimately the KPIs 133 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 4: have to be outcomes and employment. I mean, the whole 134 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 4: point of acquiring skills is for people to improve their 135 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:06,400 Speaker 4: employment prospects, not just to get a job, but keep 136 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:10,960 Speaker 4: a job and hopefully have some capacity to progress through 137 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 4: their working life into better jobs. I mean that is 138 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 4: the transformative power of education and training, and many of 139 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,440 Speaker 4: us have experienced it personally that if you get the skills, 140 00:07:22,440 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 4: if you're educated, if you've provided the right training, the 141 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 4: opportunities are limitless. And many of the federal cabinet ministers, 142 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,119 Speaker 4: many of us are first we're in the tertiary sector 143 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 4: for the first time. Not all our families went to university, right, 144 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:41,440 Speaker 4: So the Prime Minister and other ministers, including myself, we 145 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,720 Speaker 4: have first generation going into post secondary education. So we 146 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 4: personally understand the transformative power of education and I really 147 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:53,720 Speaker 4: think that if we can so to me, the KPI 148 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 4: has to be what are the employment prospects? 149 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 2: How many people have got jobs? Is it working? 150 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 4: Is the connection between the pro and an industry sufficient 151 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 4: that people are getting jobs? Because without jobs, those training 152 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: programs really amount to very little. Indeed, and in fact 153 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:11,520 Speaker 4: they it can have an adverse effect that people feel 154 00:08:11,560 --> 00:08:14,600 Speaker 4: they put their effort in but realize no employment, and 155 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 4: that is devastating. 156 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,520 Speaker 2: So we need to be working on both parts to that. 157 00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,480 Speaker 1: Now, tell me what else has been on the agenda 158 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: while you're here. I understand there was a round table 159 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: at Charlesdowen University. 160 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 4: Yeah, look, so we spoke to We had first I 161 00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 4: like the thanks CDU for hosting a really important roundtable. 162 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,520 Speaker 2: We brought together people who are who've. 163 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 4: Been working on employment programs and training and skills for 164 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 4: a very long time, but they feel that we haven't 165 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 4: always been that strategic about the way we invest. So 166 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,679 Speaker 4: yesterday was really, as much as anything, an ability of 167 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 4: capacity for me and my federal colleagues and Paul Kirby 168 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,559 Speaker 4: to listen to the people who are on the ground 169 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:53,440 Speaker 4: who tell us what they think and works and what 170 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 4: doesn't work, and so out of that again, like the 171 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 4: idea about having a pre program on foundation skills for 172 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 4: the Rangers program was being proposed. Now I'm taking that 173 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 4: back and looking and talking to my department and other 174 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 4: departments about how can that work, how can we make 175 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 4: it more How can we make a very good program 176 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,079 Speaker 4: range of ranges of the Rangers program a better program 177 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 4: by making sure that these people are ready to enter 178 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 4: that form of training. 179 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,680 Speaker 2: So there were some very good ideas that came out 180 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 2: of that round table and some. 181 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 4: Very and I guess a lot of experienced people who 182 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 4: really had who were able to contribute because without really engaging, 183 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 4: I think Camera can strategically invest and has got some 184 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,040 Speaker 4: really strong points. But ultimately, if you're not here listening 185 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 4: to what works in Darwin, in the territory, then you 186 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:46,600 Speaker 4: really don't get it, and you can't get it from Canberra. 187 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 4: You have to consult and I think yesterday's round table 188 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 4: was a great example of getting good ideas about what 189 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 4: will work here. And every part of Australia is a 190 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,800 Speaker 4: bit different. There's some common threads, but there's also some 191 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 4: differences and that will inform the decision making for me 192 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:09,280 Speaker 4: and others as we develop this. The Grants program for 193 00:10:09,679 --> 00:10:12,560 Speaker 4: Indigenous and non Indigenous Australians. 194 00:10:12,040 --> 00:10:14,080 Speaker 1: Yes, spot On've got to be here to learn what's 195 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:15,280 Speaker 1: going on in the territory. 196 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 3: We're a unique place, there's no doubt about it. 197 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:19,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely magnificent place. 198 00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,320 Speaker 1: Well, Brendan O'Connor, the Federal Minister for Skills and Training, 199 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:23,560 Speaker 1: always good to catch up with you. 200 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for your time this morning. 201 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, Cottie, thank you.