Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week that line Welcome to
Speaker 1: TV Reload. My name is Benjamin Norris, and this is
Speaker 1: your podcast to get all the inside goss on the
Speaker 1: popular TV shows that you may be watching from around
Speaker 1: the world. Undeniably, our TV sets are a major part
Speaker 1: of our home entertainment, and very little is known about
Speaker 1: how our favorite shows get made. Each episode, I find
Speaker 1: guests that want to dive just that little bit deeper
Speaker 1: into the shows they're currently making, so that you can
Speaker 1: hear all the exclusive stories and gain access to the
Speaker 1: biggest names in television. I want to thank you for
Speaker 1: downloading or subscribing to this podcast. I love hearing your feedback,
Speaker 1: so make sure you leave a comment on your chosen
Speaker 1: podcast platform and I'll make sure you feel is included
Speaker 1: in the production of this show as I possibly can.
Speaker 1: This episode, I was lucky enough to organize a special
Speaker 1: guest from Married at First Sight, someone who has been
Speaker 1: with the show for quite some time. It is relationship
Speaker 1: expert John Aiken. John Aikin is trained in the field
Speaker 1: of relationships and has worked in private practices for over
Speaker 1: twenty years. He focuses on giving out practical advice to
Speaker 1: singles and couples. And this is his tenth season on
Speaker 1: MAVs and it's exciting to hear what we have installed
Speaker 1: for the twenty twenty three season.
Speaker 2: The experts this year go much harder than before.
Speaker 1: We will get some insights into his relationships with former contestants.
Speaker 2: But generally speaking, I don't stay in touch with too
Speaker 2: many of them.
Speaker 1: I will find out what common mistakes people make when
Speaker 1: watching the show.
Speaker 2: And they're going, we don't understand this, this must be
Speaker 2: set up.
Speaker 1: John talks about the experiment and why he thinks audiences
Speaker 1: can't stop watching.
Speaker 2: Singles watch it and say I got avoid that type
Speaker 2: of person, and couples watch it and go, you know what,
Speaker 2: we can't act like that.
Speaker 1: We will also find out how he has improved during
Speaker 1: the ten seasons working with countless couples on a mission
Speaker 1: to find their forever partner.
Speaker 2: I'm much more direct with holding that mirror up to
Speaker 2: the participants in calling out bad behavior.
Speaker 1: And of course we will also get plenty of exclusive
Speaker 1: stories from John Aiken and I feel like this is
Speaker 1: the perfect way to kick off the tenth season of
Speaker 1: Marret at First Site, which debuts on Channel nine this
Speaker 1: Monday at seven thirty, the thirtieth of January. However, we
Speaker 1: probably should bring John into the podcast. This is the
Speaker 1: first maths chat I've had ever on the podcast. So guys,
Speaker 1: I really hope you enjoyed this episode. Hi John, thank
Speaker 1: you for coming onto the podcast TV Reload.
Speaker 2: Well, look, it's a pleasure. I'm so excited about season
Speaker 2: ten have Married at First Sight, and you know, we're
Speaker 2: at that point of the year where it gets launched
Speaker 2: and then you just sit back and watch how the
Speaker 2: audience respond. It's always unpredictable and I love it.
Speaker 1: How are you going? Are you mentally prepared for another
Speaker 1: season of Married at First Site?
Speaker 2: Well, it takes. It takes a lot to do the show,
Speaker 2: particularly the filming part of it. You really immerse yourself
Speaker 2: in three or four months of intense filming. So when
Speaker 2: it gets to the stage where it's going out to
Speaker 2: the public, you're sort of at a point where you
Speaker 2: want to watch it like everyone else. I've lived it,
Speaker 2: but I haven't seen the final product. So I'm going
Speaker 2: to be sitting there on the couch like you watching
Speaker 2: it every episode. You know, there'll be times when I'll
Speaker 2: be shocked and times when I'll be deeply moved and
Speaker 2: it's a wonderful ride.
Speaker 1: John, do you put the phone away? Because I can
Speaker 1: only imagine having the amount of people watching this around
Speaker 1: Australia all would love to have a way of texting
Speaker 1: you to find out what you think about what's being
Speaker 1: shown on screen. So do your friends and family start
Speaker 1: texting you and you have to go and hide the phone? Like,
Speaker 1: what's the process like for you when you're watching it?
Speaker 2: Well, it begins with a good glass of wine. I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there on the couch, usually with my wife, and
Speaker 2: we will essentially turn the phones off or at least
Speaker 2: onto silent, and I just hone in for ninety minutes.
Speaker 2: I escape. I watch it. Sometimes I cringe at how
Speaker 2: I look on screen, but that's a part of it.
Speaker 2: I don't think you ever get you used to that,
Speaker 2: and you know, you just sort of get taken away
Speaker 2: with it all. You know, you keep reminding yourself that
Speaker 2: this is real, that they do and say these things,
Speaker 2: and that sometimes it's unbelievable where certain storylines end up.
Speaker 1: I can imagine my partner and I've been together for
Speaker 1: a long time, over ten years, and you know, he has.
Speaker 1: He's a very opinionated person, so he's willing to say
Speaker 1: what he thinks he's watching of my content. Does your
Speaker 1: wife sit there and critique how you're coming across on
Speaker 1: the show, And.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, not just me, but all the participants as well. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, sometimes Kelly, my wife, she'll have friends
Speaker 2: over and it'll be a maths night, usually on a
Speaker 2: Sunday because that's when a commitment ceremonies on, and you know,
Speaker 2: the champagne will come out and I'll just sit there
Speaker 2: and listen to them, you know, give their opinions on things.
Speaker 2: And that's one of the great aspects of merrit at
Speaker 2: first sight is that everyone has sort of opinion. You
Speaker 2: love it, you hate it, you love this couple, you
Speaker 2: can't stand that couple. But it really promotes reactions. And
Speaker 2: I think that's one of the things I realized when
Speaker 2: it first started to get big. I saw people around
Speaker 2: me becoming really moved by it.
Speaker 1: I mean, the show can really polarize its audience. Why
Speaker 1: do you think that so many people are fascinated with
Speaker 1: this concept?
Speaker 2: Well, it certainly wasn't like that when we set out.
Speaker 2: We didn't think that it go past one season, so
Speaker 2: ten seasons. In the fact is it reaches a lot
Speaker 2: of people, both here and overseas. Why that is, I
Speaker 2: think is be well a number of things. I think
Speaker 2: there's a number of ingredients. The first thing is that
Speaker 2: it appeals to both singles and couples. Singles watch it
Speaker 2: and say, I got to avoid that type of person,
Speaker 2: and couples watch it and go, you know what, we
Speaker 2: can't act like that, So it reaches both sorts of camps,
Speaker 2: if you like. I think also people like the experts
Speaker 2: on it because we get hold, we get held to account,
Speaker 2: they push back on us, we call out bad behavior.
Speaker 2: So that's very compelling and tense and riveting when that happens.
Speaker 2: I think also people believe in the fairy tale, so
Speaker 2: they want to see strangers really fall in love, you know,
Speaker 2: at first sight, and that always drags people in, you know.
Speaker 2: And I think also I would say, sometimes people watch
Speaker 2: it and it takes them back to high school. You know,
Speaker 2: they're looking at it thinking, oh, I remember people like that,
Speaker 2: or you know, I wasn't part of the cool group,
Speaker 2: or I was kind of a shy person, or I
Speaker 2: went out with a guy back in the day that
Speaker 2: was like that, so it reminds them a lot of
Speaker 2: some of the things they may have experienced at high
Speaker 2: school or later on.
Speaker 1: It is relatable. I mean, it stirs up something in
Speaker 1: all of us as we watch this show. And you know,
Speaker 1: even the naysayers that are out there, Oh, I can't
Speaker 1: watch that show. I so often ask a few more questions,
Speaker 1: and it turns out they have watched the show, because
Speaker 1: what they're revealing to me is that they know specifics.
Speaker 1: And I think that as much as people might find
Speaker 1: the show polarizing, I think we're all very drawn to
Speaker 1: I guess, the reality of love and the need to
Speaker 1: be in love, the need to find somebody. I think
Speaker 1: the biggest mistake of all time is we all think
Speaker 1: we are deserving of love and we can find it.
Speaker 1: It's very hard to attain, you know. It's very hard
Speaker 1: to find someone you know that is the right match.
Speaker 2: It is very very hard to match these big personalities.
Speaker 2: And one of the biggest obstacles I think that you
Speaker 2: see when you're watching it is that they are not
Speaker 2: aware of why they're single or what their problem patterns are.
Speaker 2: So you'll watch it and you'll realize, oh, I know
Speaker 2: why that guy's single. I know why she's not found anyone,
Speaker 2: but they don't necessarily understand that or see that. And
Speaker 2: so when you put them in an experiment with another
Speaker 2: big personality, they really resort to type and old patents
Speaker 2: and it holds them back. And the ones that make
Speaker 2: it are the ones that actually go, oh well, I
Speaker 2: actually could do this differently. No one's ever told me
Speaker 2: that I'm going to change it up and do better.
Speaker 2: That's not always the case, of course, but when it is,
Speaker 2: you do get love stories like Cam and Jules, like
Speaker 2: Martha and Michael, you know, like Melissa and Bryce, Johnny
Speaker 2: and Kerry got married the other day. So it happens.
Speaker 2: It can work, but it's not easy.
Speaker 1: I mean, it is just amazing to watch these as
Speaker 1: to who are the ones that are going to stay together?
Speaker 1: Everything that you say and do is very much scrutinized over.
Speaker 1: Do you ever worry about how the audiences will interpret
Speaker 1: what you say? Are you in the moment thinking about
Speaker 1: what Australia is going to say? Or do you just
Speaker 1: have to give yourself up to it.
Speaker 2: I don't think about what I'm going to say, and
Speaker 2: I don't think about how it's going to land. I
Speaker 2: think if I was worried about that, then I wouldn't
Speaker 2: be authentic and I would be scared to really get
Speaker 2: off my chest what needs to be said. So look,
Speaker 2: I go in and I'm very clear with them I'm
Speaker 2: not there to be their friend. I'm not going to
Speaker 2: take sides. I'm going to be objective and I'm going
Speaker 2: to call out poor behavior. I also say to them,
Speaker 2: this is not about personality. It's about patents. So when
Speaker 2: something's going wrong, you don't need to take it personally.
Speaker 2: I'm just going to hold a mirror up to you,
Speaker 2: and I want you to listen and look at that
Speaker 2: pattern and do it different. And so I'm very much
Speaker 2: in the moment. I don't at any stage think about
Speaker 2: Twitter or media scrutiny, or how it's going to have
Speaker 2: a ripple effect outside for me, my family or the
Speaker 2: other participants. It's just in the moment at the participants.
Speaker 1: How did you originally get approached to do something like this?
Speaker 1: I mean that's a very interesting question. I mean it's
Speaker 1: a very unique and very specific role that you play
Speaker 1: and not something I think it would work for everybody.
Speaker 1: Like you know, this is a very niche skill set,
Speaker 1: so did you hear about the show being made and
Speaker 1: then put yourself forward for it.
Speaker 2: I had done some previous TV work on an ABC
Speaker 2: documentary series called Making Couples Happy and then Making Families Happy,
Speaker 2: so I think that's what put me out there. But
Speaker 2: ultimately what happened was like everyone that auditioned, and there
Speaker 2: was plenty of just plenty of different people actually, whether
Speaker 2: it were psychologists, clairvoyance, matchmakers that are all in this room, counselors,
Speaker 2: you name it, relationship experts. And I just got an
Speaker 2: email in twenty fourteen from the production company saying would
Speaker 2: you like to audition for this relationship show called Married
Speaker 2: at First Sight which came out of Denmark. It was
Speaker 2: very small, observational documentary. I remember reading it that email.
Speaker 2: I showed it to my wife and she was like me, thinking,
Speaker 2: this is very weird, this concept and probably pretty noisy,
Speaker 2: and I thought, well, you know, I don't know exactly
Speaker 2: what's going to happen with it, but I think it
Speaker 2: would be fun. So I thought, I think I'll just
Speaker 2: go into the audition see what happens. And well, there
Speaker 2: were four auditions over a month long process, and they
Speaker 2: were lengthy ones, and I managed to get it. So
Speaker 2: it was really right place, right time. They were looking
Speaker 2: for a relationship expert, and I wanted you know, I've
Speaker 2: been working private practice for a while, so I just
Speaker 2: wanted a new challenge. Well, I think you're right, Benjamin
Speaker 2: when you talk about a distinct skill set, because it
Speaker 2: is very niche. There's a lot of the things that
Speaker 2: you do in this show that you never really thought
Speaker 2: about before being in the media. You know, just doing
Speaker 2: this with you now over a podcast or radio interviews,
Speaker 2: doing you know, TV with twenty cameras on you. You know,
Speaker 2: sometimes it can go to four in the morning, you know,
Speaker 2: doing all the promotional stuff, even a photo shoot. There's
Speaker 2: so many things outside of just being a relationship expert,
Speaker 2: which I think, thankfully I enjoyed doing and I found
Speaker 2: it comes easily. So it reminds me that I'm doing
Speaker 2: the I'm in the right job.
Speaker 1: If you like, when you are doing something that you're
Speaker 1: genuinely passionate about that it feels differently, It lands differently,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Look, I do, yeah, And interestingly, I never thought about
Speaker 2: going into the media when I first started working in
Speaker 2: private practice as a relationship expert and a couple of singles.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed it. I did that for twenty five years
Speaker 2: and then this out of the blue email came in
Speaker 2: and I went from there.
Speaker 1: Your life was never the same again.
Speaker 2: You know that is true, and I do tell people
Speaker 2: that my life is so different now. You know. I
Speaker 2: don't do any private practice. I just focus solely on
Speaker 2: the show. There's a lot of promotion, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of filming, there's a lot of matching that goes on
Speaker 2: before we press play in the experiment. So it's a
Speaker 2: really intense show to be on. And then you've got
Speaker 2: the other side of it, which is also the notoriety
Speaker 2: that comes from it, whether you're in a supermarket or
Speaker 2: an airport or at a mare, and the social media
Speaker 2: aspect to it as well, which is now very intense
Speaker 2: that it's a lot of change in my life that
Speaker 2: wasn't there before.
Speaker 1: What's it like interacting with the general public? I mean,
Speaker 1: this role is seen by so many people, you know,
Speaker 1: and you are having to have opinions, you are putting
Speaker 1: your opinion forward, you know, is the interaction from the
Speaker 1: general public warm or what's it like walking around the
Speaker 1: street and what is it the people that are asking
Speaker 1: what's the most common question.
Speaker 2: To answer the first part of your question. Some people
Speaker 2: will come up to you tell you that they love
Speaker 2: the show or they love what you've said on the show,
Speaker 2: and frankly, others will be very outspoken and angry, and
Speaker 2: sometimes abuse comes in my direction because they're so polarized
Speaker 2: by it that they want to tell me exactly what
Speaker 2: they think. So there's that aspect. You never quite know
Speaker 2: when you're in public whether it's going to be a
Speaker 2: positive or negative interaction. I tend to just smile and
Speaker 2: say thank you and move on. Probably off the top
Speaker 2: of my head, is this show scripted or not? We
Speaker 2: think that this must be staged because we can't believe
Speaker 2: that there are people out there that do and say
Speaker 2: these things. Is at stage, John, So I think that's
Speaker 2: one of the most common questions I get, which the
Speaker 2: answer is very clear, No, it's not, and that the
Speaker 2: people on this experiment are very real and they do
Speaker 2: these things and it's a good representation of what they like. Also,
Speaker 2: when the camera's not on them and you know it is.
Speaker 2: That's one of the reason why it's so compelling, because
Speaker 2: I think people don't come across reality participants in their
Speaker 2: day to day world, so they see it and kind
Speaker 2: of confused by it and think, maybe this isn't real,
Speaker 2: but it is.
Speaker 1: I often hear people saying this, and I, you know,
Speaker 1: covered the show when I did radio, you know, years ago,
Speaker 1: so I wasn't watching it. I'd watched the clip. I'd
Speaker 1: see like packages that the network would send out, like
Speaker 1: the cheat sheet. Yeah, And the people that would listen
Speaker 1: to the radio show would always call up and say,
Speaker 1: don't you think that they match them? Don't you think
Speaker 1: they find the perfect people, and then sort of spin
Speaker 1: all of their names around so that they're matched with
Speaker 1: the wrong person and that that means that they're going
Speaker 1: to jump ship from this marriage and go on to
Speaker 1: the next one. You know, that seemed to be the
Speaker 1: most popular question. But my question to you with that
Speaker 1: is does that feel a little bit offensive at times?
Speaker 1: Because you have put in the work to make sure
Speaker 1: in your mind that you are finding people that are
Speaker 1: going to find forever match.
Speaker 2: I don't get offended by it. I understand why people
Speaker 2: ask that because they're frustrated with the way in which
Speaker 2: the match is unraveling, essentially, and they're going, we don't
Speaker 2: understand this, This must be set up. But ultimately what
Speaker 2: people don't realize is that, you know, it is a
Speaker 2: good couple of months of intense scrutiny and matching that
Speaker 2: goes into it, and testing and getting them to meet
Speaker 2: you meeting them, and that when you do put them together,
Speaker 2: you just simply don't know what they're going to be
Speaker 2: like when the cameras roll. Now, some big personalities shrink some.
Speaker 2: You know, if you like people that you think will
Speaker 2: probably be relatively quiet in the experiment or level headed,
Speaker 2: they may explode. A great example of that was last
Speaker 2: year with Olivia and dom and their arch rivalry that
Speaker 2: blew up on our screens, none of which we all
Speaker 2: saw coming. So it means that essentially the match is well,
Speaker 2: we know why they're put together, and our fingerprints are
Speaker 2: all over it. At the same time, it can unravel
Speaker 2: in a dramatic way and makes it all look you know,
Speaker 2: like you know, it just doesn't make sense. But what
Speaker 2: I can say is that we do take a lot
Speaker 2: of time when you think about putting them together, and
Speaker 2: you know, whenever they ask us, you know, why did
Speaker 2: you put us together? We're very clear about the main reasons.
Speaker 2: And typically when we do that they are okay about
Speaker 2: moving forward because they realize, all right, we're not set
Speaker 2: up to fail here, We're set up to succeed. But
Speaker 2: we're also making mistakes here that we have to look at.
Speaker 2: So that's what I know to be true, but it
Speaker 2: is for the viewer sometimes very confusing.
Speaker 1: How have you improved as the show's gone on. I mean,
Speaker 1: I would expect that this has been quite the learning
Speaker 1: experience for you, and we are here, we are ready
Speaker 1: for our tenth season of the show. How have you improved?
Speaker 1: I mean, is there anything off the top of your
Speaker 1: head that you think?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think there are. These are great questions, Benjamin.
Speaker 2: I would say for me, the way in which I
Speaker 2: address the couples of the commitment ceremonies has become more direct,
Speaker 2: blunt at times, but very much. It's now an approach
Speaker 2: where I'm holding their feet to the fire. I have
Speaker 2: very little time with them, so I want them to stop,
Speaker 2: look at themselves and say, Okay, this is a reality check.
Speaker 2: I've got to I've got to change this up if
Speaker 2: I'm going to make this work. And I don't think
Speaker 2: I probably was like that when the show started ten
Speaker 2: years ago. It was more reflective and I was more
Speaker 2: of a mediator role, whereas now I'm much more direct
Speaker 2: with holding that mirror up to the participants and calling
Speaker 2: out bad behavior. So I think definitely that has been
Speaker 2: a big change. And also I think when I'm watching
Speaker 2: dinner parties and I see behaviors and I see the
Speaker 2: different fight styles, because I've been doing it a while now,
Speaker 2: I see certain themes that I can jump on quickly.
Speaker 2: I don't need to watch it that long now to
Speaker 2: know where they're coming from, what's happening there, what this
Speaker 2: means about their relationship. You become very very efficient at
Speaker 2: analyzing what's going on on the screen.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, do you know what was interesting for
Speaker 1: me was that watching last year with Dom and Olivia
Speaker 1: who you just mentioned before, two girls both married to
Speaker 1: these different men and navigating their own way through that
Speaker 1: series and their life. I mean, this is their life.
Speaker 1: They then came off the show and you know, arn't
Speaker 1: with these men that they married, and then there's been
Speaker 1: so much media scrutiny over the two of them, and
Speaker 1: they're thrusting themselves into the spotlight still wanting to continue
Speaker 1: that story. What are your thoughts on that? I mean,
Speaker 1: do you think that they if the marriage hasn't worked out,
Speaker 1: that they should probably put a line under it and
Speaker 1: move on. I mean, how do you feel about the
Speaker 1: tooing and throwing that we see online.
Speaker 2: Well, it's definitely become a part of the post Maths experiment,
Speaker 2: not just for those two, but for a number of them.
Speaker 2: You know, really, once the show got big, maybe four
Speaker 2: seasons ago, you know, you see these rivalries going on
Speaker 2: in the media after the show, and it actually is
Speaker 2: very similar and has a similar field to what you saw,
Speaker 2: but it's just now playing out in real life rather
Speaker 2: than on the experiment. And I mean, I've got used
Speaker 2: to it. I don't tend to react too much to
Speaker 2: it at all, other than to think that in some
Speaker 2: way it keeps the storylines going, you know, they and
Speaker 2: to be fair, after the show, some of them have
Speaker 2: made real careers for themselves in the media, so they
Speaker 2: are kind of creating a larger brand, if you like,
Speaker 2: by doing this. Anyone that goes from Maths into the media,
Speaker 2: you know, they're pretty vocal, you know, so it carries
Speaker 2: on their brand, if you like. And I think that's
Speaker 2: just a part of it now.
Speaker 1: I don't know, like for these people to come off,
Speaker 1: and then they sort of push the narrative and continue
Speaker 1: these fights that have existed on that show. I think
Speaker 1: some of them, especially Dom, I thought, you know, she
Speaker 1: could really have had a bigger media career. But the
Speaker 1: more they talked about what happened and I hate this
Speaker 1: person and cheated this, the more that it kind of
Speaker 1: makes them look a bit silly.
Speaker 2: Look, it's a difficult space to be in, and I'm
Speaker 2: in a very different space to them, because, you know,
Speaker 2: usually when the show is not on the air, you
Speaker 2: don't see a lot of me, you know, I kind
Speaker 2: of disappear. And then when it's on and the spotlight
Speaker 2: is shining brightly, you know, you've got a podcast, You've
Speaker 2: got media to do around it. And so I guess
Speaker 2: I have a very different approach to it than those
Speaker 2: that jump into the spotlight and the social media side
Speaker 2: of things. And it must be exhausting, you know, because
Speaker 2: and also I think what I do very differently now
Speaker 2: is that I don't really read any of the comments.
Speaker 2: I'm not focused heavily on social media, even though I
Speaker 2: will post or have the odd video, it's generally speaking,
Speaker 2: that's not my driver, you know, Whereas I think a
Speaker 2: lot of people that go from reality TV into the media,
Speaker 2: that is a driver. You know. They've got to create
Speaker 2: content and stay relevant and be in the spotlight and
Speaker 2: go into different areas and increase that brand. And so
Speaker 2: they just have different drivers. For me, though, I really
Speaker 2: like you know that, I kind of just stay in
Speaker 2: my wheelhouse, which is relationships, maths, and doing what I
Speaker 2: can to promote the show.
Speaker 1: Do you have a relationship with any of the former contestants?
Speaker 1: Do they ever try to keep you on file as
Speaker 1: their permanent relationship.
Speaker 2: Except all of them have access to on set psychologists
Speaker 2: and follow up counseling services, so they look after those
Speaker 2: areas of their mental health. In terms of me bumping
Speaker 2: into them, occasionally, I will bump into them, but generally speaking,
Speaker 2: I kind of I've really enjoyed my time with them,
Speaker 2: and then I let them go on and you know,
Speaker 2: to build their careers, and so I think when I
Speaker 2: do see them, it's great to catch up and see
Speaker 2: their success. But generally speaking, I don't stay in touch
Speaker 2: with too many of them. They're onto bigger and better things,
Speaker 2: and often they end up overseas too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean the show's huge overseas. I mean
Speaker 1: watch the launch episode of this on Sunday night. Wow.
Speaker 1: Looking at those headlines that this show has generated in
Speaker 1: America in the UK, it's unbelievable, unbelievable.
Speaker 2: Unbelievable, Benjamin, I can't get my head around one hundred
Speaker 2: and twenty countries by this version of Maths that we produce,
Speaker 2: and they eat it up, they love it, And you know,
Speaker 2: it's such a strange place for me to be where
Speaker 2: I'm at the pointy end of it as an expert
Speaker 2: fronting a number one show that's going around the world.
Speaker 2: Ten years ago, I was working quietly in private practice,
Speaker 2: seeing singles and couples. We're talking.
Speaker 1: You're talking to you today. I think that you seem
Speaker 1: very humble and seem to have keep yourself. I don't
Speaker 1: know what's the word for it. I think you've kept
Speaker 1: the reality of the situation.
Speaker 2: I appreciate that I've had to. There are moments where
Speaker 2: you've got to I think you've got to try and
Speaker 2: stay ground, and I keep reminding myself that you know,
Speaker 2: this could stop at any stage. Yeah, it's like it's
Speaker 2: almost like being in a boy band. It's like this
Speaker 2: intense spotlight. For a short period of time. You ride
Speaker 2: it for as long as it goes, and then you
Speaker 2: know at some stage it's going to come to an end.
Speaker 2: And so I'm okay to do that. But I also
Speaker 2: am realistic and I think also social media, you know,
Speaker 2: while you try and stay away from it, you're always
Speaker 2: going to get feedback and you get good, but you
Speaker 2: also get really bad, you know. So it's hard to
Speaker 2: you know, have tickets on yourself when you you know,
Speaker 2: get some feedback about certain things that you've done.
Speaker 1: Not everyone's going to love you, you know what I
Speaker 1: mean like that?
Speaker 2: No, And in fact, I've kind of got used to
Speaker 2: the idea that, you know, if you're a part of maths,
Speaker 2: you're going to have a lot of people that won't
Speaker 2: like you, you know, that will have their opinions, very very
Speaker 2: strong opinions. I mean, I've been stopped when I've been
Speaker 2: on the phone. I've been you know, stopped when I
Speaker 2: was at a cafe chatting to friends, you know, and
Speaker 2: people literally interrupt my conversation to tell me how you know,
Speaker 2: offended or you know, just displeased they are with me.
Speaker 2: And so it's very hard to get you know, high
Speaker 2: on yourself when you get to get both the good
Speaker 2: and the bad coming at you.
Speaker 1: I say to people that come off their shows all
Speaker 1: the time, and I interview a lot of people on
Speaker 1: this podcast. You know, people are coming off these shows
Speaker 1: and you can't really connect to the positive. You can't
Speaker 1: connect to the effusive. You know, the a few people
Speaker 1: that are going to love you on these shows as
Speaker 1: much as you really can't connect to the people that
Speaker 1: hate you. I mean, both of those sides of the
Speaker 1: coin are really just as ridiculous to connect to. And
Speaker 1: that's what I learned. You know, you can't read all
Speaker 1: that stuff and think I'm amazing, and you can't read
Speaker 1: all that stuff and think, oh, I'm terrible. You kind
Speaker 1: of have to just be like, well, that's something else.
Speaker 1: But I was going to ask you. You know, we're
Speaker 1: at the tenth season, and every season it feels like
Speaker 1: we get a different slice of a pie, even though
Speaker 1: the concept is still the same. What do you think
Speaker 1: is different about this season? Do you feel like producers
Speaker 1: or the people that make this show have made have
Speaker 1: learned things from last year and are now trying to
Speaker 1: do something different. I mean, what are we going to
Speaker 1: see differently in this new season?
Speaker 2: Well? I think I think producers do hone the product
Speaker 2: as the years go along, But I think what stays
Speaker 2: the same pretty much as the format. What changes is
Speaker 2: the casts and their backgrounds and the patterns that they have,
Speaker 2: and their family upbringings and their relationship heartache and all
Speaker 2: of that. They bring that to the table and their
Speaker 2: culture and they're overbearing parents. I mean, there's so much.
Speaker 2: Every single year is different because everyone has different stories
Speaker 2: behind them that they bring in. Saying that, though, I
Speaker 2: think the x Berts this year go much harder than
Speaker 2: before because the behavior is poor in some ways, you know,
Speaker 2: some of the most shocking stuff we've seen. I think
Speaker 2: we have a twist about halfway through where we throw
Speaker 2: a new challenge, completely new challenge at the participants that
Speaker 2: they haven't seen before. And we do that because you know,
Speaker 2: they've all watched nine seasons of it, so they're like thinking, Ah,
Speaker 2: you know, I've got this. I'm just going to coast
Speaker 2: along here, and we don't want them to be complacent,
Speaker 2: so we throw that in there, and that's very telling
Speaker 2: because some of them can get on board and others
Speaker 2: simply can't. I think this year the issue of sex
Speaker 2: is very strong, particularly who's initiating how much is the
Speaker 2: right amount of sex? How do you say no to
Speaker 2: someone if you're not feeling in the mood without them
Speaker 2: feeling rejected. What is essentially a healthy relationship and a
Speaker 2: healthy sex life that's very strong throughout And I think
Speaker 2: this year also with with the fight styles, you know,
Speaker 2: I was really shocked at times about how some of them,
Speaker 2: you know, they say pretty cruel thing, they assassinate people's characters,
Speaker 2: and then they'll tag on, I'm just being honest, I'm
Speaker 2: just speaking the truth, and so so it's like it's
Speaker 2: like a free for all. You can say anything, you're like, man,
Speaker 2: just totally destroy someone. But then as long as you
Speaker 2: just speak in your truth, you're good to go. And
Speaker 2: so we have to really call out some of these
Speaker 2: exchanges because it's not okay, you don't talk to people
Speaker 2: in a disrespectful way, in a cruel way, that's not
Speaker 2: being honest, that's actually been totally offensive. Ah, but they
Speaker 2: don't like that, but they need to know that. So
Speaker 2: I think that is going to be different this year.
Speaker 2: I mean, we saw plenty between Olivia and Dom and
Speaker 2: some of the other girls last year. This year, certainly,
Speaker 2: the guys are very outspoken.
Speaker 1: I think the worst thing you can say to someone
Speaker 1: in this day and age is to try and make
Speaker 1: someone accountable. Use the accountable word with people, they hate it,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: And I think that's so.
Speaker 1: And even in arguments with my partner, you know, I'll say,
Speaker 1: you know, but I want you to be accountable for this.
Speaker 1: That seems to be more offensive to him than swearing
Speaker 1: on him, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: That's right. You make a good point, Ben, because you know,
Speaker 2: these participants often when I'm speaking to them and trying
Speaker 2: to really hold a mirror up, I sometimes wonder whether
Speaker 2: this is the first time ever that they've heard that,
Speaker 2: you know, that they have been held to account. So
Speaker 2: I think there's a number of people out there that
Speaker 2: don't like you know, putting the hand up saying sorry,
Speaker 2: I could do that better. I had no idea that
Speaker 2: this behavior is so toxic, and that is that's a
Speaker 2: real role and a responsibility we have. You know, we
Speaker 2: don't know what they're going to do on the show.
Speaker 2: We don't expect certain poor behavior. We can't control for that,
Speaker 2: but when it happens, we do have a responsibility to,
Speaker 2: you know, really try and put a stop to it.
Speaker 2: And so that's kind of how we look at it,
Speaker 2: but that word accountability does make a lot of people
Speaker 2: die for cover, and you often get as a result,
Speaker 2: not someone saying I'm sorry, but someone's saying you've got
Speaker 2: it wrong. You know you don't know the full fact.
Speaker 2: So they go into this defense mode, which just makes
Speaker 2: it even more problematic, particularly to dinner party, when people
Speaker 2: are trying to get things off the chest, they just
Speaker 2: get louder and things escalate even more.
Speaker 1: I think as well, because people try to get you
Speaker 1: to understand how they feel by creating false narratives. And
Speaker 1: I don't think it's a bad thing. I don't think
Speaker 1: they're meaning to do it. But you quite often see
Speaker 1: on this show that someone says, oh, well, this person
Speaker 1: did this and it's not what they said. It's not
Speaker 1: what they did, but it's how that person was made
Speaker 1: to feel. So they are trying to simply put that
Speaker 1: on the table, and yet then they'll call them out
Speaker 1: for being word no, that's not what I said or whatever.
Speaker 1: And I guess what people should say is you did X, Y,
Speaker 1: and Z and more you made me feel like this,
Speaker 1: And I think that would be more beneficial to some
Speaker 1: of the arguments that go.
Speaker 2: Oh, that'd be heaven. But unfortunately we don't get a
Speaker 2: lot of that. What we get is what we would
Speaker 2: call the sledgehammerck coming out. You know, they begin their
Speaker 2: exchange with a you always, you never, The finger is pointed.
Speaker 2: They're very global, you know. Every time I come back
Speaker 2: to the apartment, I see you always doing this, and
Speaker 2: you can just see the person that they're talking at,
Speaker 2: just the red mist coming over them as they're about to,
Speaker 2: you know, come back at them. Look, if I'm totally honest,
Speaker 2: when you watch married for singles and couples, you learn
Speaker 2: what not to do. You learn, Wow, you know that
Speaker 2: guy over there has five red flags that I'm seeing already.
Speaker 2: I cannot go out with someone like that who has
Speaker 2: those red flags. I've got to be aware of that.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to follow through and repeat that there
Speaker 2: and the couple's going, wow, we start conversations with those
Speaker 2: sort of comments you always, you never. We've got to
Speaker 2: stop that. That is going to create all sorts of problems.
Speaker 2: So in a strange way, and we certainly didn't set
Speaker 2: out when we began this journey with marriage for it
Speaker 2: to be educational. I don't think it was more sort
Speaker 2: of a fly on the wall bobdoc. But now I
Speaker 2: think people watch it and go, wow, we're learning what
Speaker 2: not to do here.
Speaker 1: I put my hand on my heart, and I've seen
Speaker 1: bad behavior on that show that I am culpable of myself,
Speaker 1: and I've been like, oh, and it's so funny. So
Speaker 1: much of the things that were allergic to seeing on
Speaker 1: other people is things we do ourselves. You know. Sometimes
Speaker 1: that hits harder than anything else. And so I don't
Speaker 1: think that's on the box. I don't think when people
Speaker 1: buy married at first sight they are going to get
Speaker 1: that kind of learned behavior or mirror being held up
Speaker 1: against them. But maybe that's the reason why this show
Speaker 1: is as popular as it is, and that is because
Speaker 1: it's one of the shows on television that is a
Speaker 1: real interactive show. It's real, it's uncomfortable.
Speaker 2: Remember when I thought, oh, this is weird, this We're
Speaker 2: onto something big here was about series four or five,
Speaker 2: when people started coming into my private practice and I
Speaker 2: sit down, I'd say, okay, so what's brought you in here? Mysell?
Speaker 2: You know, we argue like Nick and Cyrel or we
Speaker 2: have got you know, I've got a problem. I keep
Speaker 2: going after guys like this guy. So they use the
Speaker 2: names of the people on maths to describe their relationship issues.
Speaker 2: And I'd worked in the few for twenty years that
Speaker 2: it never happened. So there was some tipping point where
Speaker 2: people started to relate to it so much and realize, oh, no,
Speaker 2: this is this is not behavior. It's going to be
Speaker 2: good for us. They come and they talk to me
Speaker 2: about it in that way, and that was a real
Speaker 2: eye open. That's when I thought there's something going on
Speaker 2: here with the general population.
Speaker 1: You can hear it. I was at a pub last
Speaker 1: year and I overheard this two girls talking and one
Speaker 1: of them said, that's you know, he's a brice. It
Speaker 1: became an adjective. It was a terminology. Not about him anymore,
Speaker 1: it was about the behavior. It was just, you know,
Speaker 1: that's where you're like, this show is penetrating.
Speaker 2: Isn't that weird? And yet I'm sure, like we've all
Speaker 2: got ideas on what the secret source is the ingredients
Speaker 2: to making this show work, but I don't think anybody
Speaker 2: really knows, And that's probably why. It's a bit like music.
Speaker 2: You know, when a certain artist hits no one kind
Speaker 2: of knows why, but they've just come out of nowhere,
Speaker 2: and they've they've become huge this. I mean, look, we
Speaker 2: went up against MKR back in the day and we
Speaker 2: were a tiny little show. You know, an MKR was
Speaker 2: big and it was a cooking show. It was cooking, singing,
Speaker 2: dancing and renovation shows. Here this little relationship show that
Speaker 2: people kind of liked but no one really saw as
Speaker 2: a threat, and then it exploded.
Speaker 1: It's huge. I missed the Ding Dong now because I
Speaker 1: said to you earlier, I had only gone back and
Speaker 1: watched the last two seasons that I've seen, and then
Speaker 1: I had to go back and see more. Like then
Speaker 1: I had to go back and see chunks of people
Speaker 1: that I'd missed, and I loved that. The marriage, you know,
Speaker 1: the chapel bell, whatever that is. I think that needs
Speaker 1: to come back on the ad break because that was
Speaker 1: just so iconic to the show, and they've lost it,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Like it's gone.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean watching this series, you know, with the media,
Speaker 2: you know, over the last few weeks before the launch,
Speaker 2: what's been amazing is to see you know, the quality
Speaker 2: of the production now it's almost like watching a movie.
Speaker 1: It's unbelievable, Like it is just the Best may Television.
Speaker 1: I had Adrian Swift from nine on the podcast last
Speaker 1: year to launch the first episode of the twenty twenty
Speaker 1: two season, and he was like, we get the music.
Speaker 1: We've got a composer to put a lot of this
Speaker 1: music together. Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like this is I hear and I think that's amazing music.
Speaker 2: But I didn't know they went that far.
Speaker 1: Yeah, anyway, I have been so like it to have
Speaker 1: this chat. I just want to say before we go,
Speaker 1: one of the questions ask everyone who joins this podcast
Speaker 1: or is about television and the shows that they're on,
Speaker 1: is what is something from behind the scenes, something that
Speaker 1: we won't see, kind of like something that is it
Speaker 1: behind the scenes secret of working on maths for you?
Speaker 2: You think, well, I mean, I don't know whether people
Speaker 2: know this, but certainly you know, the dinner parties can
Speaker 2: can go through the night. So you know, when we
Speaker 2: get on set and we start hair and makeup, and
Speaker 2: then we kind of begin at about eight o'clock when
Speaker 2: it goes dark. You know, sometimes we might be getting
Speaker 2: home at five in the morning. So they are they
Speaker 2: are long and grueling sorts of ceremonies where we're all
Speaker 2: just you know, opening our hearts, not just the participants
Speaker 2: but also the experts. You know, we are very raw
Speaker 2: and it is grueling and as I get older, it
Speaker 2: takes me a while to recover from them. But when
Speaker 2: you're in it, it's like a real event. You know,
Speaker 2: you're turning up on set late afternoon and you know
Speaker 2: you've got a big ceremony. You're ready, but you don't
Speaker 2: know what the heck is going to be said or
Speaker 2: what's going to come out, and it's incredibly exciting. So
Speaker 2: hopefully you know that gives you a little insight into
Speaker 2: into what it's like when we're filming, because we've got
Speaker 2: about seven of them that we do every week, sorry,
Speaker 2: once a week, so it's a very intense sort of
Speaker 2: two months for us.
Speaker 1: It's the real I think MOUs is like a mistress
Speaker 1: to you. You know, you come home at five o'clock
Speaker 1: in the morning, you say to your wife, no, I've
Speaker 1: not been at the clubs.
Speaker 2: I know it's bad. When I get out of the
Speaker 2: taxi and there are you know, runners and joggers just
Speaker 2: passing me by on the street. I know, you know,
Speaker 2: it's been a late one and a tough one, but
Speaker 2: you know. Look, I wouldn't want to be doing anything else.
Speaker 2: This to me, has been such a privilege to be
Speaker 2: a part of. And I just love the fact that
Speaker 2: people talk about relationships now, you know, because that's my wheelhouse.
Speaker 2: That's what I'm passionate about, and this promotes all that
Speaker 2: sort of conversation.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for taking the time to come
Speaker 1: and have this chat with me today. It was so
Speaker 1: fascinating and you've been very candid with it. Good luck,
Speaker 1: enjoy the tenth season.
Speaker 2: I love it. I'm just as excited as you are, Ben,
Speaker 2: because I haven't seen it, and I think this year
Speaker 2: there's so much that's going to make you laugh and
Speaker 2: make you.
Speaker 1: Cry and throw things at the television.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll be sitting there, Ben, and I'll be
Speaker 2: doing the same thing.
Speaker 1: You describe it like a wite. This one's got legs.
Speaker 1: This one's gone.
Speaker 2: Season, Jen, It's definitely got legs.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for coming. This has just been amazing.