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Speaker 1: Well, we have been talking about the fact that the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory government has ordered that pride flags be taken

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Speaker 1: down at top end hospitals. It's understood the Rainbow and

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Speaker 1: Transgender and Torres Strait Islander flags were removed at Darwin

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Speaker 1: and Palmerston Hospitals on Tuesday this week after a complaint

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Speaker 1: was made to the Chief Minister's Office. Now the Health Minister,

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Speaker 1: Steve Edgington says the flags were not compliant with government protocols,

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Speaker 1: which is to fly the Australian, the Northern Territory and

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Speaker 1: the Aboriginal flags, resulting in the displays being amended. Two

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Speaker 1: of the Northern Territories Peak medical bodies of express concerns

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Speaker 1: over their removals, saying it could impact patients who identify

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Speaker 1: as Torres Strait Islander and LGBTQIA plus. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line is the Australian Medical Association's NT Branch president,

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Speaker 1: doctor Robert Parker. Good morning to you, doctor Parker.

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Speaker 2: Morning Katie, But I wouldn't start off with a story

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Speaker 2: for you. Sure is a very eminent doctor called doctor

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Speaker 2: Noel Hayman who's in now original doctor and he took

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Speaker 2: over a very degraded primary health service in Brisbane, the

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Speaker 2: anhal Of service which serviced South Brisbane with a very

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Speaker 2: large Aboriginal population, and very few of the Aboriginal population

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Speaker 2: actually accessed it for their health and he Noel made

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Speaker 2: a few inquiries and found that they didn't feel welcome,

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Speaker 2: that they turned up and didn't feel welcome in the service,

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Speaker 2: so other than went to have their health done there.

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Speaker 2: So what he did was he changed the whole culture

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Speaker 2: of the service. He put an Aboriginal receptionist in. He

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Speaker 2: was smiling and happy, and he put a whole bunch

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Speaker 2: of Aboriginal art on the wall, and suddenly a whole

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Speaker 2: lot of Aboriginal paces and there is the health done

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Speaker 2: turned up and it's now become a very successful and

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Speaker 2: almost a national, if not a world standard in primary

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Speaker 2: health health in primary health care because people felt welcome

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Speaker 2: and safe, and that was the whole issue of the flags,

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Speaker 2: you know, the having the flags in the foyer for

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Speaker 2: the Obow flag and the trans flag meant that the

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Speaker 2: health service was committed to a safe and inclusive service

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Speaker 2: for those individuals. And quite often people in the group

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Speaker 2: have significant health issues and feel marginalized. So the whole

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Speaker 2: point of doing having the flags in the foyer was

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Speaker 2: to encourage a safe and inclusive health service for everybody,

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Speaker 2: whether they're an old white guy like me or someone

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Speaker 2: who's in the Rainbow Coalition or someone who's trands that

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Speaker 2: they get the same very high quality health service and

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Speaker 2: feel welcome.

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Speaker 1: Dr Parkerd, what was your reaction when you, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you learned that the flags were being removed, Well,

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Speaker 1: we were disappointed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, obviously someone objects, they talked to the Chief Minister.

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Speaker 2: There's no wider consultation about the value of the flags

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Speaker 2: and what they might be there, and suddenly all of

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Speaker 2: this government policy, let's take them down, even though you

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Speaker 2: know they've been here for the last five years and

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Speaker 2: there's been no problem with them and in fact, it's

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Speaker 2: been a real tribute to the hospital that we've had

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Speaker 2: these flags in the foyer as a recognition of the

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Speaker 2: of the service we provide to these to these communities.

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Speaker 1: Now in terms of you know, like when they were

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Speaker 1: taken down, So is it the Torres Straight Islander flag

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Speaker 1: as well that was taken down, or was it the

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Speaker 1: Pride flag that was taken down or both?

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Speaker 2: Understand was that the islander flag was taken down. The

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Speaker 2: Pride flag and the trans flag were taken down, and

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Speaker 2: again these are it's the bizarre that, you know, because

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Speaker 2: we always talk about Aboriginal Chatured Islander. You know the

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Speaker 2: fact that the Aboriginal flag, the Minister of saying the

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Speaker 2: Aboriginal flags recognized that the t I flag is not,

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Speaker 2: which is quite bizarre given the Australian national standard for

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Speaker 2: recognition of these two groups.

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Speaker 1: And so has the a m A sort of when

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Speaker 1: they were removed. Was the a m A contacted by

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Speaker 1: doctors and healthcare professionals about this?

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Speaker 3: Were they quite.

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Speaker 2: Concerned, very concerned about the you know, the removal of

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Speaker 2: this and you know again the concern that you know,

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Speaker 2: I think it represents the commitment and value that the

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Speaker 2: health service fields are looking at after the wide range

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Speaker 2: of territorians, you know, whoever they may be, or whatever

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Speaker 2: group they may belong to. It's very important and I

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Speaker 2: think it's a real tribute to the doctors and nurses

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Speaker 2: and everyone else. Has made a real point about this

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Speaker 2: saying we're very concerned that these flags have gone down.

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Speaker 1: Dr Parker, a bit of movement, I guess on this

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Speaker 1: this morning from what I have heard and what i've seen.

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Speaker 1: There's been a notice put up out at the Palmerston

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Speaker 1: Regional Hospital by the general manager, I believe out there

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Speaker 1: saying that the lgbt QIA plus flag that it's going

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Speaker 1: to be framed and put up in the foyer. Have

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Speaker 1: you heard anything to that effect or what is your understanding?

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Speaker 2: I haven't good on that manager because she's doing exactly

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Speaker 2: what they need to do, which is a recognized inclusion

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Speaker 2: of all people and the territories, that all territorians can

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Speaker 2: feel safe coming to a hospital and feel valued.

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Speaker 3: So good honor doctor Parker.

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Speaker 1: It's a really it's interesting because it's become like this

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Speaker 1: really sort of divisive topic or you know, there's people

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Speaker 1: with really differing views on it. I guess is probably

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Speaker 1: a better way of putting it. You know, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: say people are being you know, like there's there's people

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Speaker 1: sort of saying, you know, well, I'm of this ethnicity

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Speaker 1: or I'm from you know, originally from this country.

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Speaker 3: You know why, Well, you know, I don't feel.

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Speaker 1: Less welcome because there's not a flag up, you know,

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Speaker 1: for let's say, I don't know, for Indonesia, or for

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Speaker 1: you know, for the Greeks in the community, for the

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Speaker 1: Italians in the community. Some people are sort of you know,

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Speaker 1: are drawing that conclusion. How would you say that this

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Speaker 1: is different?

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I think the Rainbow flag and the transflag

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Speaker 2: recognized and the Indigenous. You know, it's well recognized that

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Speaker 2: the Aboriginal social lot of the population has got significant

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Speaker 2: health issues as recognized and closed the gap. So and

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Speaker 2: I mean fifty percent of the patients in all that

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Speaker 2: hospital Indigenous. So you know, the recognition of that particular

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Speaker 2: group and their health needs is very important. Again, the

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Speaker 2: trends and the Rainbow population do tend to have health

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Speaker 2: needs that are probably more prominent than the general population.

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Speaker 2: And if you include I suppose Indonesians, Greeks, Italians of

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Speaker 2: white guys like me, I mean, in a rough sort

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Speaker 2: of in a rough situation, we're all pretty much on

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Speaker 2: an equal basis. There's no particular reason Indonesians have a

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Speaker 2: particular health issue compared to an old white guy like me,

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Speaker 2: whereas the Trans and the Rainbow coalition do have health issues,

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Speaker 2: mental health issues often that are more prominent than compared

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Speaker 2: to the general population.

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Speaker 1: And so for you know, I suppose for those that

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Speaker 1: are part of the Rainbow community, what do you think

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Speaker 1: the removal of the flag from these two facilities will do.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it will make people feel like they're

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Speaker 1: less welcome or maybe make them feel like, you know,

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Speaker 1: they can't be as honest with the health care professional

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Speaker 1: that they that they encounter.

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Speaker 2: That's right exactly. I think you've summed it up.

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Speaker 1: So tell me, I mean, do you at this point

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Speaker 1: in time, what do you think needs to happen?

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Speaker 3: Do they need to be reinstated?

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Speaker 2: Yes, the flags need to go back in there is

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Speaker 2: again as for what happened with nol Hayman and Brisbane.

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Speaker 2: You need to improve the cultural safety and value of

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Speaker 2: the health service to all territories, particularly these marginalized groups,

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Speaker 2: to make them feel like their health needs value and

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Speaker 2: that they're welcome within the health system. So those flags

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Speaker 2: need to go back up again.

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Speaker 1: And in terms of how the flags sort of first

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Speaker 1: came into place or when did they my understanding is

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Speaker 1: that they've been up for about five years, as you

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Speaker 1: said as well. Was it part of a health strategy

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Speaker 1: or why or how did they come to be I

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Speaker 1: suppose I.

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Speaker 2: Think it was just a gradual incrementation that it was,

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Speaker 2: you know, an acceptance that these marginalized populations need to

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Speaker 2: be further recognized and supported within the health system.

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Speaker 1: Dr Parker, you know, I was talking to a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine this morning who said, you know that you

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Speaker 1: know that he hasn't even disclosed to his GP. I

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Speaker 1: think he's you know, his sexual orientation. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: you know, that made me feel quite sort of sad

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Speaker 1: that you know that he felt that he like that

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Speaker 1: he was in a situation where he felt like he

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Speaker 1: couldn't be honest with his GP about that. I mean,

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Speaker 1: do you still see that on a daily basis? Do

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Speaker 1: you still see that people are you know that there

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Speaker 1: may be they're not as comfortable as they should be

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Speaker 1: in those settings, and that you know, maybe sometimes some

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Speaker 1: healthcare professionals don't make them feel as though they can be.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right. I don't see it personally in my practice,

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Speaker 2: but you certainly have to think about it within the

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Speaker 2: system where someone's got a very intense personal issue and

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Speaker 2: they don't feel safe exposing that because they feel they

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Speaker 2: might feel marginalized or discriminated. Again, so it is a

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Speaker 2: very important issue, Doctor Robert Parker.

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Speaker 1: Look, it's it is, you know, it's I guess it's

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Speaker 1: going to be interesting to see exactly what the government

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Speaker 1: decides to do here. But as we've heard, you know

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Speaker 1: out in Palmerston, it looks as though they are going

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Speaker 1: to have the flag framed and displayed.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that is appropriate?

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Speaker 2: Well, is very supportive of what that person is doing

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Speaker 2: and will be very concerned if the government decided to

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Speaker 2: take in the action against that. I mean, the government's

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Speaker 2: in the AMA is in the constructive discussion with the

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Speaker 2: government at the moment about the restitution of the flags

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Speaker 2: and we certainly have to see them back up in

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Speaker 2: the four years of hospital soon. We'll be very concerned

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Speaker 2: if the government took an im punitive action against the

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Speaker 2: individual in the context of these discussions.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor Robert Parker, keep in contact with us. Let

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Speaker 1: us know whether you know, whether you do hear anything

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Speaker 1: more or whether the you know what happens at at

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Speaker 1: RDH as well.

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Speaker 3: I really appreciate your time as.

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Speaker 2: Always, always good to talk to you, Katie.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks so much for having a chat with

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Speaker 3: this good