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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now is the opposition

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Speaker 1: leader leofan Occhiaro.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Leah, Good morning Katie, and good morning to

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Speaker 2: your listener.

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Speaker 3: Have you recovered from those crocodile races yesterday?

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Speaker 4: Oh gosh, wasn't that exciting? I loved it.

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Speaker 1: It's such a uniquely territory way to spend Melbourne Cup.

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Speaker 3: Isn't it.

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Speaker 4: I'll never get over that croak of ship didn't win.

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Speaker 1: I know, well it happens, you know, many of us

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Speaker 1: lose on Melbourne.

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Speaker 3: Cup next year. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Now, Let's get into some of the issues that we

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Speaker 1: are keeping an eye on at the moment. Now.

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Speaker 3: One of those is, of course the budget.

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Speaker 1: We know that the Northern Territory budget is going to

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Speaker 1: be handed down next week. We asked the Chief Minister

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Speaker 1: about it on the show on Monday and I had

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Speaker 1: said to him that we know when the federal budget

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Speaker 1: was handed down that there was certainly some pretty tough

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Speaker 1: figures to swallow. And he had said to me that, yes,

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Speaker 1: Josh Fridenberg had had delivered that budget and said that

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Speaker 1: there would be eyewatering numbers. He didn't say the word

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Speaker 1: eyewatering for the Northern territory, but he did say it's

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Speaker 1: going to be.

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Speaker 3: A tough one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, this is going to be very interesting. Of course,

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Speaker 2: what people need to remember, and what the government wants

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Speaker 2: people to forget, is that our debt was blown well

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Speaker 2: and truly before COVID, and that's been a big part

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Speaker 2: of the problem in the government's inability to provide as

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Speaker 2: comprehensive a response as it could. Our debt was already

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Speaker 2: through the roof, and the government so much so. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we all remember those couple of weeks before Christmas when

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Speaker 2: the treasure when the Chief Minister and the Treasurer told

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Speaker 2: us we might have a thirty.

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Speaker 4: Five billion dollar debt.

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Speaker 2: And since then we've had the Langolan Review commissioned by

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Speaker 2: the government to tell them how to have budget repair.

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Speaker 2: Of course we've seen the government fail to really implement

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Speaker 2: any budget repair measures and then bang COVID hits us,

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Speaker 2: and the government's in even a worse position because of

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Speaker 2: course it's had to spend more, which we understand, it's

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Speaker 2: had to take stimulus, which is very very important. So

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Speaker 2: who knows what next week is going to look like.

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Speaker 2: But one thing that we are looking for is a

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Speaker 2: plan out of it. It's not okay to just continue

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Speaker 2: to blame COVID. It's not okay to just say, oh, well,

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Speaker 2: the federal budget and it's really bad too, don't look

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Speaker 2: at us. They've got to have a clear plan for

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Speaker 2: both economic growth and budget repair going forward.

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Speaker 1: Leah, do you think that there needs to also be

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Speaker 1: stimulus measures put in place? I mean, we know that

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Speaker 1: a lot of territorians are still doing it tough, and

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Speaker 1: I think that this is going to be the hard

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Speaker 1: juggle is we're all expecting some fairly.

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Speaker 3: Eye watering figures or I am.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if the rest of the territory is,

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Speaker 1: but I'm expecting some fairly eye watering figures. But then

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Speaker 1: you also wonder whether there does need to be further

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Speaker 1: stimulus measures in order to keep things ticking along. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that the government needs to go into further

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Speaker 1: debt to do that?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, there of course needs to be continued stimulus

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Speaker 2: measures depending on how things are going and where those.

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Speaker 4: Areas of most need are.

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Speaker 2: So I think we can, of cause expect to see that,

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Speaker 2: and whether or not those announcements are wrapped up in

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Speaker 2: the budget or not will remain to be seen.

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Speaker 4: But that doesn't mean.

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Speaker 2: The government is able to get away with not having

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Speaker 2: a plan. I mean they need to. We've talked about

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Speaker 2: red tape, We've talked about approvals timeframes, We've talked about

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Speaker 2: facilitating private sector investment. That is the only way we're

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Speaker 2: going to get ourselves out of this mess about cuts.

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Speaker 2: It's not about times of you know, clawing back whatever

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Speaker 2: you can wherever you can. It's about being sensible, responsible

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Speaker 2: and growing the piece of growing the pie itself so

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Speaker 2: that we can bring more revenue in and create more

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Speaker 2: opportunity for territory.

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Speaker 1: Surely there does need to be a little bit of

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Speaker 1: a raining in though. When we talk about the number

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Speaker 1: of public servants that we've got in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 1: I mean we know that there are now twenty one thousand,

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Speaker 1: eight hundred and thirty six full time equivalent public servants

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Speaker 1: in the territory. The former Treasurer Nicole Madison did announce

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Speaker 1: that that number would be capped at twenty one thousand,

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Speaker 1: three hundred and ninety five, but the public service continues

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Speaker 1: to grow.

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Speaker 3: Does that really need to be implemented here?

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Speaker 1: I mean, do they need to get serious about keeping

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Speaker 1: that number at the cap that was recommended by Langolet.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is that's exactly right, Katie. I mean the

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Speaker 2: Langlan review said there should be a cab. Of course,

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Speaker 2: at that time we learned that the government borrow is

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Speaker 2: about four million dollars a day just to pay the

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Speaker 2: wages bill, which is clearly unsustainable. Service do an excellent job,

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Speaker 2: and especially during COVID, we've seen incredible resources needed to

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Speaker 2: be expended.

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Speaker 4: But the government's setting its own rules.

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Speaker 2: It's saying, yes, we're committed to budget repair, we're putting

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Speaker 2: a cap, and then it's blowing the cap pre COVID

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Speaker 2: by two hundred plus and then now since COVID and

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Speaker 2: another you know, just shy of fifty. There's no question

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Speaker 2: we've needed more staff during this COVID to respond to

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Speaker 2: the health crisis and the policing issues and everything that's

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Speaker 2: come of it. But these issues are legacy issues, they

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Speaker 2: are pre COVID issues, and if the government doesn't have

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Speaker 2: a plan going forward, it doesn't give people confidence of

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Speaker 2: what our future budget tree position's going to look like.

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Speaker 3: Because, of course, I mean, what would your plan be.

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Speaker 1: Would it be that as people are leaving you don't

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Speaker 1: replace some how do you bring in like, how do

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Speaker 1: you reign in that number of public service?

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Speaker 2: Well, you look very carefully when you're you know, recruiting,

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Speaker 2: do you need those people? Of course, in some areas

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Speaker 2: of the public service we need technical staff and we're

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Speaker 2: actually short. In others there might be be more. Can

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Speaker 2: you up skill, can you move people around? You know,

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Speaker 2: can you reduce the size by natural attrition? These there

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Speaker 2: are all questions that governments have at their disposal. Of course,

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Speaker 2: we can't leave services unmet, and no one wants to

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Speaker 2: see that, and no one wants people to pack up

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Speaker 2: and go. But of course we need to grow our economy.

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Speaker 2: That is the single biggest issue that's going to help us.

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Speaker 4: And the real issue.

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Speaker 2: I mean, people sort of talk about an eight point

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Speaker 2: two billion dollar debt and the size is so big

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Speaker 2: that it's hard to relate at sometimes to just the

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Speaker 2: average territory on the street. But if you think that

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Speaker 2: the government's going to spend a lot of time, money

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Speaker 2: and energy, borrowing money, paying back money, then it means

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Speaker 2: it can't spend money in other areas, and critical services

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Speaker 2: over time will eventually be the ones to suffer because

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Speaker 2: the government doesn't have the money in the piggy bank

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Speaker 2: to be able to spend when it needs to.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about some of those critical services.

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Speaker 1: And one of those that we heard about last week,

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Speaker 1: and then we spoke in depth again about this on

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Speaker 1: Monday this week with the Police Association's Paul McHugh is

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Speaker 1: police numbers.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 1: He said that at the moment, those attrition rates are

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Speaker 1: really quite high. He said that over the last three months,

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Speaker 1: twenty nine office had left. He anticipates, he says, that

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Speaker 1: it's about ten police officers a month that we're losing.

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Speaker 1: Is that a concern to you hugely?

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Speaker 2: I mean, those are astronomical numbers. We all hear about

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Speaker 2: the five to eight a month, but if we're getting

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Speaker 2: ten at the moment, that sense a really clear signal

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Speaker 2: that something needs to be done. We need to ensure

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Speaker 2: that our police feel supported, that they're able to be

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Speaker 2: able to go and do that important job of keeping

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Speaker 2: us safe every single day. And of course, you know,

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Speaker 2: if we lose ten a month and aren't having the

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Speaker 2: requisite number of recruit squads, then we're not even going

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Speaker 2: to be meeting those attrition targets. And at a time

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Speaker 2: when we need police more than ever before, both because

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Speaker 2: of the crime situation and because of our border and

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Speaker 2: airport obligations to keep people safe from COVID, there is

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Speaker 2: huge strain on our force. And I think Paul was

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Speaker 2: also saying that, you know, some of them are from retirement,

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Speaker 2: but the bulk are from resignation, and we need to

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Speaker 2: be understanding why police are leaving and.

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Speaker 4: What we can do to stop that flow.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think they're leaving.

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Speaker 2: I think things are really tough at the moment. I

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Speaker 2: think you know, police are really concerned about crime. I

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Speaker 2: think they really feel like the government has not done

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Speaker 2: them a service by changing the Youth Justice Act the

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Speaker 2: way they have. I think COVID has just been an

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Speaker 2: extra enormous.

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Speaker 4: Unlimited burden upon them.

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Speaker 2: I think there's issues are fatigue, as you often hear

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Speaker 2: the Police Association say, and so it's something we need

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Speaker 2: to look at. It's really important again, you know, going

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Speaker 2: back to that sort of akin to the budget commentary.

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Speaker 2: You know, we've had years of not having regular police

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Speaker 2: recruit squads and cutbacks in that area and now it's

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Speaker 2: coming home to roost. And so you know when you've

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Speaker 2: got to be really forward thinking in your planning to

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Speaker 2: ensure that the needs of the day are met and

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Speaker 2: it's terribly sad to see ten police a months leaving Leah.

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Speaker 1: One of our listeners has just messaged through and said,

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Speaker 1: what would Leah do to get us out of the

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Speaker 1: financial hardship?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, and thank you for your question.

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Speaker 2: Look, we've said very clearly we would immediately put in

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Speaker 2: place Territory Coordinator who would sit outside of government as

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Speaker 2: an independent statutory authority and be able to facilitate and

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Speaker 2: fast track major project approvals by having the power to

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Speaker 2: work through those government departments and get those things done.

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Speaker 2: We've also said we would cut all approval time frames

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Speaker 2: across government by fifty percent and pull those leaves of government.

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Speaker 2: You know, we don't have much money, but we do

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Speaker 2: have a powerful pen as a government. You have a

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Speaker 2: pen that can change law, you have a pen that

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Speaker 2: can change policy and get things moving. And we certainly

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Speaker 2: would be looking to streamline everything for the private sector

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Speaker 2: so that they can go out and have that ability

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Speaker 2: to be agile and invest and do what they need

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Speaker 2: to do, because it's only the private sector who's going

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Speaker 2: to get us out of there.

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Speaker 1: There does need to be a ragining in though of

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Speaker 1: the spending.

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Speaker 3: Doesn't there I mean.

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Speaker 1: There does need to be some savings made at the moment,

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Speaker 1: and that was clearly pointed out in the Langolent review.

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Speaker 1: I mean, do we need to look at cutting the

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Speaker 1: public service numbers?

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Speaker 2: I don't think so, that's certainly not something we would

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Speaker 2: What we need to do is stop the waste for spending.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we've seen a number of projects over the

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Speaker 2: last four and a bit years which are just waste.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there was I think was an eight hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars spent on the Miley Point Museum Saga, and

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Speaker 2: you know there's a temporary fence sitting up there at

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Speaker 2: the moment. God knows how much money they've spent on that.

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Speaker 4: Now.

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Speaker 2: Of course, you know that the shade structure of a

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Speaker 2: Kavanagh Street that's got no shade, but the vines are

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Speaker 2: nearly at the top.

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Speaker 1: Now.

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Speaker 2: I mean, there's any number of debacles that we've seen

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Speaker 2: and wasteful spending and that's got to stop. The government's

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Speaker 2: got to recognize it's got to be more strategic and

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Speaker 2: how it spends money. It's got to be focused on

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Speaker 2: the private sector.

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Speaker 3: Does there need to.

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Speaker 1: Be a wager's policy though as well a thousand dollar

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Speaker 1: cap I mean, that was something that had been spoken about,

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Speaker 1: and that cap on how much people are getting in

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Speaker 1: terms of the pay crease annually within the public service.

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Speaker 3: I mean, is that something that they.

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Speaker 1: Need to seriously be looking at at the moment we're

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Speaker 1: talking in the private sector. The majority of people that

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Speaker 1: work in the private sector at the moment, I've said

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Speaker 1: this time and time again have either taken a paydep

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Speaker 1: all lost their jobs. So is it fair then, you know,

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Speaker 1: if public servants are getting significant pay increases each and

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Speaker 1: every year.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Look, and I hear that comment to Katie. I mean,

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Speaker 2: of course, you know, it's also easy for some people

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Speaker 2: to want to target the public service as well. I mean,

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Speaker 2: they're out there every day doing their job. They've got

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Speaker 2: their house mortgages and their car loans and kids at

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Speaker 2: school and bills to pay. So I don't think, you know,

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Speaker 2: I really hate the divide. It shouldn't be in us

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Speaker 2: and them type of situation. But as the Chief Minister

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Speaker 2: has you know, likes to brush this issue off. He

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Speaker 2: talks about, well, when we have the EBA negotiations, this

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Speaker 2: will be something we look at and the government need

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Speaker 2: to be looking at these at these different ways of.

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Speaker 4: Dealing with it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, all the information came from their own Langlan report.

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Speaker 2: They can't now turn around and just sort of pretend

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Speaker 2: that that didn't happen. They're the ones who commissioned it,

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Speaker 2: because they're the ones who got us in so much

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Speaker 2: trouble in the first place. So if this government doesn't

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Speaker 2: start changing its ways, we're in real strife. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we've had design struct decis.

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Speaker 3: You implement that one thousand dollar cap well, I.

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Speaker 2: Think it certainly has to be on the table, just

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Speaker 2: like a range of other measures, including living within your

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Speaker 2: means and opening our economy. I mean, my focus absolutely,

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Speaker 2: without question, would be on the economic leavers.

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Speaker 4: I mean, there's no question about it.

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Speaker 1: Lea. Just finally, this morning, I know that the Country

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Speaker 1: Liberal Party is calling for truancy officers to be introduced.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk us through exactly what they'd be doing

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Speaker 1: and where they'd be based.

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Speaker 2: So Labors scraps truancy officers and replace them with more

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Speaker 2: of a compliance based model. And that has meant that

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Speaker 2: there's been no compulsory attendance notices issued and none of

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Speaker 2: those type of formal mechanisms requiring kids to go to school.

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Speaker 2: Now we all want our kids to have the brightest

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Speaker 2: possible future, and we've got amazing schools and amazing.

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Speaker 4: Teachers and stuff.

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Speaker 2: But if our kids aren't in those classrooms, they're not

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Speaker 2: going to be able to get the information they need

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Speaker 2: to go on and have a really, you know, an

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Speaker 2: excellent opportunity at life. So we really hate to see

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Speaker 2: that there's been a seven percent drop in attendance over

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Speaker 2: the period of the Gunner government. We attribute it to

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Speaker 2: the scrapping of the truancy officers. We think they need

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Speaker 2: to look at what they're doing. Clearly, it shows it's

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Speaker 2: not working. It's not okay to just have set and

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Speaker 2: forget policy. You know, they've got to be going back

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Speaker 2: and working out new ways and getting kids into classrooms

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Speaker 2: because it's just so fundamental to their future.

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Speaker 1: Leah and Olkiaro, we are going to have to leave

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Speaker 1: it their opposition leader.

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Speaker 3: Always good to catch up with you. Thanks so much

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Speaker 3: for your time today.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Katie, and thank you to listeners.