WEBVTT - Why is Australia debating abortion again?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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<v Speaker 1>ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome

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<v Speaker 1>to the Daily OS. It is Thursday, the twenty fourth

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<v Speaker 1>of October.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Billy, I'm Zara.

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<v Speaker 1>You may have seen some headlines recently about abortion in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite the fact that it has been decriminalized everywhere in

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<v Speaker 1>the country, the issue of abortion has re entered the

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<v Speaker 1>political landscape and it's being debated once again, specifically in

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<v Speaker 1>Queensland and South Australia. So what's going on and could

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<v Speaker 1>abortion laws in some states in Australia actually change. We'll

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<v Speaker 1>explain in today's podcast. But first, Sara, what is making

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<v Speaker 1>headlines today?

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<v Speaker 3>Tens of millions of people in New South Wales are

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<v Speaker 3>believed to have been overcharged for the processing of official

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<v Speaker 3>documents over the past eight years. The New South Wales

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<v Speaker 3>government said a merchant fee was wrongly applied to vehicle registrations,

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<v Speaker 3>marriage certificates and driver's license renewals at revenue or service

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<v Speaker 3>New South Wales. The average surcharge was roughly ninety two

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<v Speaker 3>cents per transaction, amounting to one hundred and forty four

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<v Speaker 3>million dollars from ninety two million unlawful overcharges since twenty sixteen.

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<v Speaker 3>The government said it's now taken steps to stop any

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<v Speaker 3>future merchant fees being charged, and has asked the State

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<v Speaker 3>Ombardsman to investigate what it described as serious maladministration.

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria's Premier Jacinta Allen has condemned a group of neo

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<v Speaker 1>Nazis who interrupted a pro refugee rally in Melbourne, calling

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<v Speaker 1>them disgraceful cowards. Around three hundred refugee activists have been

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<v Speaker 1>camped outside the Department of Home Affairs in Melbourne, CBD

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<v Speaker 1>for several months. On Tuesday, a group of around twenty

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<v Speaker 1>men dressed in all black gate crashed the rally. Police

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<v Speaker 1>used pepper spray to disburse the men. Victoria police have

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<v Speaker 1>not made any arrests and said there were no injuries,

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<v Speaker 1>but are investigating the incident further. Premier Allen said the

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<v Speaker 1>men quote hide behind masks and symbols that are deeply

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<v Speaker 1>unacceptable to the rest of the community.

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<v Speaker 3>US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has held high level

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<v Speaker 3>meetings with senior Israeli officials as part of efforts to

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<v Speaker 3>secure a.

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<v Speaker 2>Ceasefire in the Middle East.

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<v Speaker 3>Blincoln and his aide sat down with Israel's Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 3>Benjamin Netanyahu to discuss the importance of ending the conflict

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<v Speaker 3>in Gaza, returning all Israeli hostages, getting humanitarian aid into Gaza,

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<v Speaker 3>and mapping a path to peace in the region. According

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<v Speaker 3>to data sided by the UN, at least forty two

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<v Speaker 3>thousand Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since last year.

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<v Speaker 3>Last week, Israel killed Hamas Leider Yaya Sinhwa during a

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<v Speaker 3>raid in Gaza, and he was one of the key

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<v Speaker 3>architects behind the October seven attacks that killed twelve hundred

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<v Speaker 3>people in Israel. U S State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller

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<v Speaker 3>said Blincoln was urging Israel officials to quote capitalize on

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<v Speaker 3>Sinwa's death to bring an end to the conflict.

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<v Speaker 1>And in today's good news, akockatoo, who was stuck inside

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<v Speaker 1>a Sydney shopping center for a month, has been freed.

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<v Speaker 1>Micky the Cockatoo accidentally found himself trapped inside the MacArthur

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<v Speaker 1>Square shopping center in Campbelltown. He spent weeks living off

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<v Speaker 1>snacks provided by the center's supermarket before a local bird

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<v Speaker 1>expert was brought in after twenty failed attempts to get

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<v Speaker 1>him out. Micky was safely caught and has since been

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<v Speaker 1>released back into nature.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, Billy, I know that on today's podcast we are

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<v Speaker 3>talking about why abortion is back in the headlines here

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia. Before we get into that story, though, I

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<v Speaker 3>do think it's important, I guess to just set up

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<v Speaker 3>a bit of the lay of the land. So can

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<v Speaker 3>you just run me through what is the state of

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<v Speaker 3>affairs when it comes to accessing an abortion here in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So in Australia, abortion laws are decided by the

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<v Speaker 1>individual states and territories, which is actually similar to what

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<v Speaker 1>it is in the US now, but we'll get to

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<v Speaker 1>the differences in a sec Every state and territory in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia has decriminalized abortion, and that just means that abortion

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<v Speaker 1>is dealt with as a health issue instead of as

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<v Speaker 1>a criminal issue. Now, Western Australia was actually the last

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<v Speaker 1>state to decriminalize abortion, and it only happened last year.

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<v Speaker 1>So they passed legislation last year and it came into

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<v Speaker 1>effect this year.

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<v Speaker 3>I will just jump in here though, because I think

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<v Speaker 3>hearing that it was only decriminalized last year for example

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<v Speaker 3>in Wa, I just want to clarify that doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 3>that people in Australia haven't been able to access abortions

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<v Speaker 3>before then. It just means that it was taken out

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<v Speaker 3>of the criminal code in each state and then lastly

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<v Speaker 3>in WA last year.

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<v Speaker 2>But it has been accessible before.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't want to reduce it by saying that

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<v Speaker 1>it's largely a symbolic thing, but I think the big

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<v Speaker 1>part of it was that it's no longer in the

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<v Speaker 1>criminal part of Western Australia's legislation. Now the laws for

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<v Speaker 1>abortion vary across the country, specifically the gestational limits, and

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<v Speaker 1>that just means that there are different limits on how

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<v Speaker 1>many weeks a person can be pregnant to access an

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<v Speaker 1>abortion before additional approvals are required. So, for example, the

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<v Speaker 1>gestational limit in New South Wales is twenty two weeks.

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<v Speaker 1>In the Act, they actually have no gestational limits, although

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<v Speaker 1>late term abortions are extremely rare.

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<v Speaker 3>So there you can access an abortion at any point.

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<v Speaker 3>Is that what that's saying.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, But I think in reality the truth is that

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<v Speaker 1>many women are not accessing late term abortions, and if

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<v Speaker 1>they are, they're only doing that for very serious medical reasons.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so I guess one of the key similarities here

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<v Speaker 3>is that it is a state by state issue here

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia and also now in the US deciding when

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<v Speaker 3>and how abortion laws come into play.

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<v Speaker 2>And that is of course in the US of Roe v.

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<v Speaker 2>Way being overturned.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and so I mentioned before there was a key difference,

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<v Speaker 1>and that key difference is that here it has been

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<v Speaker 1>decriminalized across the country and that's a decision that every

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<v Speaker 1>state territory has made. But in the US there is

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<v Speaker 1>something like twenty one states where abortion has been banned

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<v Speaker 1>or restricted in the wake of the overturning of Roe v.

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<v Speaker 3>Wade, So we've kind of gone in completely different directions exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>And that's why it's surprising that it's come up in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia because there has kind of been this broad consensus

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<v Speaker 1>across the country that abortion should be decriminalized.

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<v Speaker 3>Because it does feel like it's been a while since

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<v Speaker 3>it was last this kind of big political issue, and

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<v Speaker 3>that we watched the US and think of that as

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<v Speaker 3>something that's so far away from the kind of political

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<v Speaker 3>discourse that we have in this country. That's obviously not

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<v Speaker 3>the case any longer. Why are we talking about it today?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so has suddenly become a big issue in two states,

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<v Speaker 1>specifically in Australia. In Australia, so in Queensland and in

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<v Speaker 1>South Australia. I'll go through Queensland first. So there is

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<v Speaker 1>an election in Queensland this weekend, which I know that

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<v Speaker 1>we talked about in yesterday's podcast because Harry interviewed the premiere. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>despite abortion being decriminalized in the state since twenty eighteen,

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<v Speaker 1>it has become one of the unexpected debate topics on

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<v Speaker 1>this campaign trail. So part of the reason for this

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<v Speaker 1>is because of MP Robbie Catter. When I first heard

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<v Speaker 1>about this story, I was like, why is everyone suddenly

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<v Speaker 1>calling Bob Kata Robbie Catter? I was like, have we

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<v Speaker 1>suddenly decided his name's Robbie. No. Rob Kata is his

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<v Speaker 1>son and he is an MP in Queensland. During his

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<v Speaker 1>campaign for the election, he has promised that he would

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<v Speaker 1>introduce a private member's bill to repeal or amend the

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<v Speaker 1>state's abortion laws in the next term of government. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>a private member's bill is just a piece of legislation

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<v Speaker 1>that is proposed by someone who is in Parliament but

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<v Speaker 1>not in government.

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<v Speaker 3>It's interesting because I think that so often there are

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<v Speaker 3>private members' bills that we fixate on because they might

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<v Speaker 3>be a bit left of center, a bit different. But

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<v Speaker 3>the thing is that private members bills infamously do not

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<v Speaker 3>usually get up because, as you said, they don't have

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<v Speaker 3>the support of the government.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, many people listening maybe have never even heard of

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<v Speaker 1>private members' bills. They don't often get a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>coverage in the media because they're unlikely to get the

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<v Speaker 1>support they need to become law. And we know that

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<v Speaker 1>Labor wouldn't vote for these changes being proposed by Robbie

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<v Speaker 1>Katter because it was under a labor government in Queensland

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<v Speaker 1>that abortion was decriminalized. So when it all happened in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty eighteen, that was a labor government that made those

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<v Speaker 1>changes to the laws. So then the question became, would

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<v Speaker 1>the Liberal National Party, who is currently in opposition but

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<v Speaker 1>is seeking to become government, would they support a repeal

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<v Speaker 1>of the abortion ban?

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<v Speaker 3>And that's important because we know that in the polls

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<v Speaker 3>they're ahead. Yes, So it's a big question to have

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<v Speaker 3>asked yes.

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<v Speaker 1>So we know that the Liberal National Party has a

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<v Speaker 1>good chance of being in government after the weekend. And

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<v Speaker 1>what is interesting about that question is that the leader

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<v Speaker 1>of the Liberal National Party, David chris A fully voted

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<v Speaker 1>against decriminalizing abortion in twenty eighteen, so he wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>keep abortion regulated under the Criminal Code. So that's why

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<v Speaker 1>everyone is asking, now what is his opinion today?

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<v Speaker 2>Right?

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<v Speaker 3>So that was six years ago. Is there an answer like,

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<v Speaker 3>what is his position now?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, he's been kind of skirting around it, I would say,

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<v Speaker 1>But on Tuesday night, during a debate with the Premiere,

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<v Speaker 1>Christoph fully was pretty stern in saying that there will

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<v Speaker 1>be no change to Queensland's abortion laws under a government

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<v Speaker 1>he leads. So that sounds pretty simple, right, it won't happen,

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<v Speaker 1>Well not quite Okay, a little bit more complexity because

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<v Speaker 1>what isn't quite clear in his answers is whether he

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<v Speaker 1>will give his MPs a conscience vote. And that means

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<v Speaker 1>parliamentarians could freely vote how they want on a particular topic,

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<v Speaker 1>so they're not bound to support a party position. And

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<v Speaker 1>this happens on a variety of different topics. It happened

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<v Speaker 1>on voluntary assisted dying that a lot of MPs could

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<v Speaker 1>you know, they didn't have to go with the position

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<v Speaker 1>of their party. They could vote however they personally wanted to.

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<v Speaker 1>And so that is the question that he's still not

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<v Speaker 1>really answering that if he was the Premier of Queensland,

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<v Speaker 1>would he allow the MPs in his government to go

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<v Speaker 1>to a conscience vote, in which case perhaps this private

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<v Speaker 1>member's bill could potentially have enough support to get through.

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<v Speaker 4>If so, if there was a conscience vote, you'd vote

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<v Speaker 4>against it, Karan, There'll be no change, and my team

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<v Speaker 4>has said for it or against. Well, let me let

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<v Speaker 4>me answer that. So the premier is talking about the

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<v Speaker 4>vehicle to get there.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you the result.

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<v Speaker 4>There will be no change to those laws, and that's

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<v Speaker 4>what people need to know. There will be no change

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<v Speaker 4>and my seed if my team has backed that in.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so we're talking there about I guess a few

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<v Speaker 3>steps of hypotheticals. We have to first see what happens

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<v Speaker 3>at the Queensland election, who wins government, and then there

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<v Speaker 3>would still need to be some sort of decision making

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<v Speaker 3>from there on. So definitely a really important story to

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<v Speaker 3>keep an eye on as we watch this weekend to

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<v Speaker 3>see what happens in the state. But you mentioned at

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<v Speaker 3>the top of this podcast that's not just Queensland that

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<v Speaker 3>is having this kind of state based conversation about abortion,

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<v Speaker 3>but it's also something that's occurring in South Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so this happened a bit over a week ago

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<v Speaker 1>now that a law to a strict abortion was narrowly

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<v Speaker 1>rejected in South Australia's Upper House. Now, that law, if

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<v Speaker 1>it had passed, would have required anyone seeking an abortion

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<v Speaker 1>from twenty eight weeks to give birth instead. So at

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<v Speaker 1>the moment, abortions in South Australia are allowed up to

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<v Speaker 1>twenty two weeks and six days of pregnancy, and late

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<v Speaker 1>term abortions are allowed if they have sign off from

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<v Speaker 1>two medical professionals. Now, the bill that was proposed wanted

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<v Speaker 1>to amend that law by adding the following sentence. It said,

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<v Speaker 1>a medical practitioner may only intervene to end the pregnancy

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<v Speaker 1>of person who is more than twenty seven weeks and

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<v Speaker 1>six days pregnant if the intention is to deliver the

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<v Speaker 1>fetus alive. So they're basically saying you'd have to give birth,

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<v Speaker 1>you couldn't have an abortion. Now, like I said, that

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<v Speaker 1>was ultimately voted down, but it was only voted down

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<v Speaker 1>ten to nine, so it came down to just one vote.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think quite a lot of people were surprised

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<v Speaker 3>by the margin. You know, one vote is not by

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<v Speaker 3>any means a significant kind of position one way or

0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:28.800
<v Speaker 3>the other.

0:12:29.000 --> 0:12:31.720
<v Speaker 2>So again, a really interesting story.

0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.120
<v Speaker 3>In the last couple of days, I've also seen this

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:39.720
<v Speaker 3>abortion conversation really filtering onto a national stage as well.

0:12:39.960 --> 0:12:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, which is another surprising factor of this story, because,

0:12:43.080 --> 0:12:46.320
<v Speaker 1>like we've been saying, abortion is a state issue in Australia,

0:12:46.360 --> 0:12:48.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not something that is dealt with at the federal level.

0:12:49.040 --> 0:12:49.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Nevertheless, Coalition Senator Jaciner Price said this week that she

0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:57.320
<v Speaker 1>wants abortion to be on the national agenda. So she

0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.920
<v Speaker 1>said that there should be more laws put in place

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:04.520
<v Speaker 1>to stop late term abortions. Again, something interesting about the

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.440
<v Speaker 1>debate about abortion in Australia is that a lot of

0:13:07.440 --> 0:13:11.720
<v Speaker 1>the debate surrounds late term abortions, which, like I've said,

0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:16.400
<v Speaker 1>they are very rare. Most people are getting abortions way

0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:19.880
<v Speaker 1>before that. I think it's about one to three percent

0:13:20.080 --> 0:13:23.840
<v Speaker 1>of abortions that are late term abortions. Interesting, but she's

0:13:23.880 --> 0:13:26.920
<v Speaker 1>not alone amongst her coalition peers in thinking that this

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:30.680
<v Speaker 1>should be addressed at the federal level. Coalition Senators Matt

0:13:30.760 --> 0:13:33.960
<v Speaker 1>Canavan and Alex Antik have tried to introduce a lot

0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:37.840
<v Speaker 1>at the federal level to change the abortion laws in Australia.

0:13:37.920 --> 0:13:40.040
<v Speaker 3>I do think it's important there just to note that

0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:43.920
<v Speaker 3>both Matt Canavan and Alex Antik do sit almost on

0:13:44.000 --> 0:13:47.440
<v Speaker 3>the fringes of the Coalition, so they're not necessarily kind

0:13:47.440 --> 0:13:49.200
<v Speaker 3>of the mainstream broad.

0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:53.079
<v Speaker 1>Notion generally considered far to the right. But it was

0:13:53.120 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 1>actually only in August. I missed this story. But there

0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.760
<v Speaker 1>was also a motion for the Senate to quote recognize

0:13:59.840 --> 0:14:03.040
<v Speaker 1>that at least one baby is born alive every seven

0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.040
<v Speaker 1>days following a failed abortion and left to die, and

0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:11.600
<v Speaker 1>that Australia's healthcare system is enabling these inhumane deaths. So

0:14:11.640 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>there was a motion in Australia's Senate to recognize that statement,

0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:19.520
<v Speaker 1>but that was defeated. That did not happen in the end. So,

0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 1>like I said, I missed that story, and these stories

0:14:22.400 --> 0:14:24.200
<v Speaker 1>have kind of popped up here and there, but they

0:14:24.240 --> 0:14:26.840
<v Speaker 1>haven't got a whole lot of attention because it has

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 1>always been shut down quite quickly, and.

0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.320
<v Speaker 3>That motion wasn't introduced by either the government or the coalition.

0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.880
<v Speaker 3>That was by a minor party member. So again going

0:14:35.920 --> 0:14:37.920
<v Speaker 3>to this thing about you know how much weight do

0:14:38.000 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 3>we give motions or ideas or you know, laws that

0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 3>won't really ever be realized in Australian Parliament.

0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.800
<v Speaker 1>Exactly, and just Enterprice's requests for this to be something

0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.600
<v Speaker 1>that is considered on the national agenda was also shut

0:14:51.640 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>down yesterday when Liberal Senator Jane Hume was quite strong

0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.800
<v Speaker 1>in her words and saying that the coalition has no

0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 1>plan to make abortion a federal issue. So she said, quote,

0:15:01.640 --> 0:15:04.400
<v Speaker 1>there are no plans for a coalition government led by

0:15:04.400 --> 0:15:08.400
<v Speaker 1>Peter Duttan to make any changes to women's reproductive rights right.

0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 3>Not leaving much room there at all for further discussion exactly.

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.360
<v Speaker 1>So I think we can say that mostly at the

0:15:14.400 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 1>federal level and also in South Australia the debate has

0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.600
<v Speaker 1>kind of been settled now, but the one debate that

0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:24.720
<v Speaker 1>is still ongoing is the one in Queensland because, like

0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.720
<v Speaker 1>I mentioned, Robbie Catter is planning to introduce that private

0:15:27.760 --> 0:15:31.400
<v Speaker 1>member's bill after the election, and so it kind of

0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:35.720
<v Speaker 1>depends who gets into government to see where it goes.

0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.000
<v Speaker 1>But like I mentioned, I think it's a really important

0:15:38.000 --> 0:15:40.160
<v Speaker 1>thing to note that the opposition who are trying to

0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:43.640
<v Speaker 1>get into government have said that there will be no changes.

0:15:43.800 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 1>So they would argue that it doesn't matter who gets

0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:50.240
<v Speaker 1>into government, nothing will change. Obviously. Others think otherwise.

0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.440
<v Speaker 3>Time will tell an extremely interesting conversation to be had.

0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:56.320
<v Speaker 3>And I think when there are all these different stories

0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.720
<v Speaker 3>happening kind of across the country, when you pull it

0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.800
<v Speaker 3>all together in one place, I really try to make

0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:01.680
<v Speaker 3>sense of it.

0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>It is quite a telling story.

0:16:03.120 --> 0:16:06.080
<v Speaker 3>So thank you for explaining that, Billy, and thank you

0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:09.360
<v Speaker 3>for listening to another episode over the Daily os. If

0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.920
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0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:14.880
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0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:16.800
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0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:18.680
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0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.080
<v Speaker 3>on YouTube, hello, and we would love you to hit subscribe.

0:16:22.280 --> 0:16:24.480
<v Speaker 3>We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a

0:16:24.560 --> 0:16:25.360
<v Speaker 3>fabulous day.

0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:30.400
<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Runda

0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Bungelung Caalcutin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

0:16:35.520 --> 0:16:37.680
<v Speaker 1>that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

0:16:41.280 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>Strain island and nations. We pay our respects to the

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.000
<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present,