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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily

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Speaker 1: ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the Daily OS. It is Thursday, the twenty fourth

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Speaker 1: of October.

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Speaker 2: I'm Billy, I'm Zara.

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Speaker 1: You may have seen some headlines recently about abortion in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Despite the fact that it has been decriminalized everywhere in

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Speaker 1: the country, the issue of abortion has re entered the

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Speaker 1: political landscape and it's being debated once again, specifically in

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Speaker 1: Queensland and South Australia. So what's going on and could

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Speaker 1: abortion laws in some states in Australia actually change. We'll

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Speaker 1: explain in today's podcast. But first, Sara, what is making

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Speaker 1: headlines today?

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Speaker 3: Tens of millions of people in New South Wales are

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Speaker 3: believed to have been overcharged for the processing of official

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Speaker 3: documents over the past eight years. The New South Wales

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Speaker 3: government said a merchant fee was wrongly applied to vehicle registrations,

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Speaker 3: marriage certificates and driver's license renewals at revenue or service

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Speaker 3: New South Wales. The average surcharge was roughly ninety two

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Speaker 3: cents per transaction, amounting to one hundred and forty four

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Speaker 3: million dollars from ninety two million unlawful overcharges since twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 3: The government said it's now taken steps to stop any

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Speaker 3: future merchant fees being charged, and has asked the State

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Speaker 3: Ombardsman to investigate what it described as serious maladministration.

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Speaker 1: Victoria's Premier Jacinta Allen has condemned a group of neo

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Speaker 1: Nazis who interrupted a pro refugee rally in Melbourne, calling

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Speaker 1: them disgraceful cowards. Around three hundred refugee activists have been

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Speaker 1: camped outside the Department of Home Affairs in Melbourne, CBD

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Speaker 1: for several months. On Tuesday, a group of around twenty

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Speaker 1: men dressed in all black gate crashed the rally. Police

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Speaker 1: used pepper spray to disburse the men. Victoria police have

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Speaker 1: not made any arrests and said there were no injuries,

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Speaker 1: but are investigating the incident further. Premier Allen said the

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Speaker 1: men quote hide behind masks and symbols that are deeply

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Speaker 1: unacceptable to the rest of the community.

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Speaker 3: US Secretary of State Anthony Blincoln has held high level

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Speaker 3: meetings with senior Israeli officials as part of efforts to

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Speaker 3: secure a.

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Speaker 2: Ceasefire in the Middle East.

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Speaker 3: Blincoln and his aide sat down with Israel's Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: Benjamin Netanyahu to discuss the importance of ending the conflict

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Speaker 3: in Gaza, returning all Israeli hostages, getting humanitarian aid into Gaza,

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Speaker 3: and mapping a path to peace in the region. According

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Speaker 3: to data sided by the UN, at least forty two

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Speaker 3: thousand Palestinians have been killed in Gaza since last year.

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Speaker 3: Last week, Israel killed Hamas Leider Yaya Sinhwa during a

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Speaker 3: raid in Gaza, and he was one of the key

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Speaker 3: architects behind the October seven attacks that killed twelve hundred

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Speaker 3: people in Israel. U S State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller

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Speaker 3: said Blincoln was urging Israel officials to quote capitalize on

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Speaker 3: Sinwa's death to bring an end to the conflict.

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Speaker 1: And in today's good news, akockatoo, who was stuck inside

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Speaker 1: a Sydney shopping center for a month, has been freed.

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Speaker 1: Micky the Cockatoo accidentally found himself trapped inside the MacArthur

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Speaker 1: Square shopping center in Campbelltown. He spent weeks living off

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Speaker 1: snacks provided by the center's supermarket before a local bird

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Speaker 1: expert was brought in after twenty failed attempts to get

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Speaker 1: him out. Micky was safely caught and has since been

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Speaker 1: released back into nature.

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Speaker 3: Now, Billy, I know that on today's podcast we are

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Speaker 3: talking about why abortion is back in the headlines here

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Speaker 3: in Australia. Before we get into that story, though, I

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Speaker 3: do think it's important, I guess to just set up

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Speaker 3: a bit of the lay of the land. So can

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Speaker 3: you just run me through what is the state of

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Speaker 3: affairs when it comes to accessing an abortion here in Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So in Australia, abortion laws are decided by the

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Speaker 1: individual states and territories, which is actually similar to what

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Speaker 1: it is in the US now, but we'll get to

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Speaker 1: the differences in a sec Every state and territory in

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Speaker 1: Australia has decriminalized abortion, and that just means that abortion

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Speaker 1: is dealt with as a health issue instead of as

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Speaker 1: a criminal issue. Now, Western Australia was actually the last

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Speaker 1: state to decriminalize abortion, and it only happened last year.

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Speaker 1: So they passed legislation last year and it came into

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Speaker 1: effect this year.

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Speaker 3: I will just jump in here though, because I think

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Speaker 3: hearing that it was only decriminalized last year for example

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Speaker 3: in Wa, I just want to clarify that doesn't mean

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Speaker 3: that people in Australia haven't been able to access abortions

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Speaker 3: before then. It just means that it was taken out

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Speaker 3: of the criminal code in each state and then lastly

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Speaker 3: in WA last year.

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Speaker 2: But it has been accessible before.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want to reduce it by saying that

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Speaker 1: it's largely a symbolic thing, but I think the big

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Speaker 1: part of it was that it's no longer in the

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Speaker 1: criminal part of Western Australia's legislation. Now the laws for

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Speaker 1: abortion vary across the country, specifically the gestational limits, and

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Speaker 1: that just means that there are different limits on how

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Speaker 1: many weeks a person can be pregnant to access an

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Speaker 1: abortion before additional approvals are required. So, for example, the

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Speaker 1: gestational limit in New South Wales is twenty two weeks.

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Speaker 1: In the Act, they actually have no gestational limits, although

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Speaker 1: late term abortions are extremely rare.

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Speaker 3: So there you can access an abortion at any point.

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Speaker 3: Is that what that's saying.

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Speaker 1: Yes, But I think in reality the truth is that

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Speaker 1: many women are not accessing late term abortions, and if

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Speaker 1: they are, they're only doing that for very serious medical reasons.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so I guess one of the key similarities here

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Speaker 3: is that it is a state by state issue here

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Speaker 3: in Australia and also now in the US deciding when

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Speaker 3: and how abortion laws come into play.

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Speaker 2: And that is of course in the US of Roe v.

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Speaker 2: Way being overturned.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I mentioned before there was a key difference,

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Speaker 1: and that key difference is that here it has been

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Speaker 1: decriminalized across the country and that's a decision that every

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Speaker 1: state territory has made. But in the US there is

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Speaker 1: something like twenty one states where abortion has been banned

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Speaker 1: or restricted in the wake of the overturning of Roe v.

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Speaker 3: Wade, So we've kind of gone in completely different directions exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's why it's surprising that it's come up in

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Speaker 1: Australia because there has kind of been this broad consensus

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Speaker 1: across the country that abortion should be decriminalized.

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Speaker 3: Because it does feel like it's been a while since

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Speaker 3: it was last this kind of big political issue, and

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Speaker 3: that we watched the US and think of that as

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Speaker 3: something that's so far away from the kind of political

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Speaker 3: discourse that we have in this country. That's obviously not

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Speaker 3: the case any longer. Why are we talking about it today?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so has suddenly become a big issue in two states,

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Speaker 1: specifically in Australia. In Australia, so in Queensland and in

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Speaker 1: South Australia. I'll go through Queensland first. So there is

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Speaker 1: an election in Queensland this weekend, which I know that

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Speaker 1: we talked about in yesterday's podcast because Harry interviewed the premiere. Now,

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Speaker 1: despite abortion being decriminalized in the state since twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: it has become one of the unexpected debate topics on

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Speaker 1: this campaign trail. So part of the reason for this

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Speaker 1: is because of MP Robbie Catter. When I first heard

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Speaker 1: about this story, I was like, why is everyone suddenly

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Speaker 1: calling Bob Kata Robbie Catter? I was like, have we

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Speaker 1: suddenly decided his name's Robbie. No. Rob Kata is his

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Speaker 1: son and he is an MP in Queensland. During his

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Speaker 1: campaign for the election, he has promised that he would

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Speaker 1: introduce a private member's bill to repeal or amend the

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Speaker 1: state's abortion laws in the next term of government. Now,

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Speaker 1: a private member's bill is just a piece of legislation

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Speaker 1: that is proposed by someone who is in Parliament but

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Speaker 1: not in government.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting because I think that so often there are

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Speaker 3: private members' bills that we fixate on because they might

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Speaker 3: be a bit left of center, a bit different. But

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Speaker 3: the thing is that private members bills infamously do not

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Speaker 3: usually get up because, as you said, they don't have

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Speaker 3: the support of the government.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, many people listening maybe have never even heard of

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Speaker 1: private members' bills. They don't often get a lot of

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Speaker 1: coverage in the media because they're unlikely to get the

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Speaker 1: support they need to become law. And we know that

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Speaker 1: Labor wouldn't vote for these changes being proposed by Robbie

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Speaker 1: Katter because it was under a labor government in Queensland

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Speaker 1: that abortion was decriminalized. So when it all happened in

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen, that was a labor government that made those

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Speaker 1: changes to the laws. So then the question became, would

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Speaker 1: the Liberal National Party, who is currently in opposition but

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Speaker 1: is seeking to become government, would they support a repeal

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Speaker 1: of the abortion ban?

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Speaker 3: And that's important because we know that in the polls

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Speaker 3: they're ahead. Yes, So it's a big question to have

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Speaker 3: asked yes.

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Speaker 1: So we know that the Liberal National Party has a

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Speaker 1: good chance of being in government after the weekend. And

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Speaker 1: what is interesting about that question is that the leader

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Speaker 1: of the Liberal National Party, David chris A fully voted

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Speaker 1: against decriminalizing abortion in twenty eighteen, so he wanted to

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Speaker 1: keep abortion regulated under the Criminal Code. So that's why

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Speaker 1: everyone is asking, now what is his opinion today?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 3: So that was six years ago. Is there an answer like,

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Speaker 3: what is his position now?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's been kind of skirting around it, I would say,

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Speaker 1: But on Tuesday night, during a debate with the Premiere,

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Speaker 1: Christoph fully was pretty stern in saying that there will

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Speaker 1: be no change to Queensland's abortion laws under a government

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Speaker 1: he leads. So that sounds pretty simple, right, it won't happen,

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Speaker 1: Well not quite Okay, a little bit more complexity because

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Speaker 1: what isn't quite clear in his answers is whether he

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Speaker 1: will give his MPs a conscience vote. And that means

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Speaker 1: parliamentarians could freely vote how they want on a particular topic,

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Speaker 1: so they're not bound to support a party position. And

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Speaker 1: this happens on a variety of different topics. It happened

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Speaker 1: on voluntary assisted dying that a lot of MPs could

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Speaker 1: you know, they didn't have to go with the position

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Speaker 1: of their party. They could vote however they personally wanted to.

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Speaker 1: And so that is the question that he's still not

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Speaker 1: really answering that if he was the Premier of Queensland,

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Speaker 1: would he allow the MPs in his government to go

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Speaker 1: to a conscience vote, in which case perhaps this private

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Speaker 1: member's bill could potentially have enough support to get through.

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Speaker 4: If so, if there was a conscience vote, you'd vote

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Speaker 4: against it, Karan, There'll be no change, and my team

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Speaker 4: has said for it or against. Well, let me let

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Speaker 4: me answer that. So the premier is talking about the

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Speaker 4: vehicle to get there.

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Speaker 2: I'm telling you the result.

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Speaker 4: There will be no change to those laws, and that's

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Speaker 4: what people need to know. There will be no change

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Speaker 4: and my seed if my team has backed that in.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we're talking there about I guess a few

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Speaker 3: steps of hypotheticals. We have to first see what happens

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Speaker 3: at the Queensland election, who wins government, and then there

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Speaker 3: would still need to be some sort of decision making

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Speaker 3: from there on. So definitely a really important story to

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Speaker 3: keep an eye on as we watch this weekend to

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Speaker 3: see what happens in the state. But you mentioned at

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Speaker 3: the top of this podcast that's not just Queensland that

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Speaker 3: is having this kind of state based conversation about abortion,

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Speaker 3: but it's also something that's occurring in South Australia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this happened a bit over a week ago

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Speaker 1: now that a law to a strict abortion was narrowly

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Speaker 1: rejected in South Australia's Upper House. Now, that law, if

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Speaker 1: it had passed, would have required anyone seeking an abortion

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Speaker 1: from twenty eight weeks to give birth instead. So at

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Speaker 1: the moment, abortions in South Australia are allowed up to

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Speaker 1: twenty two weeks and six days of pregnancy, and late

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Speaker 1: term abortions are allowed if they have sign off from

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Speaker 1: two medical professionals. Now, the bill that was proposed wanted

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Speaker 1: to amend that law by adding the following sentence. It said,

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Speaker 1: a medical practitioner may only intervene to end the pregnancy

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Speaker 1: of person who is more than twenty seven weeks and

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Speaker 1: six days pregnant if the intention is to deliver the

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Speaker 1: fetus alive. So they're basically saying you'd have to give birth,

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Speaker 1: you couldn't have an abortion. Now, like I said, that

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Speaker 1: was ultimately voted down, but it was only voted down

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Speaker 1: ten to nine, so it came down to just one vote.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think quite a lot of people were surprised

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Speaker 3: by the margin. You know, one vote is not by

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Speaker 3: any means a significant kind of position one way or

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Speaker 3: the other.

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Speaker 2: So again, a really interesting story.

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Speaker 3: In the last couple of days, I've also seen this

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Speaker 3: abortion conversation really filtering onto a national stage as well.

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Speaker 1: Yes, which is another surprising factor of this story, because,

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Speaker 1: like we've been saying, abortion is a state issue in Australia,

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Speaker 1: it's not something that is dealt with at the federal level.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Nevertheless, Coalition Senator Jaciner Price said this week that she

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Speaker 1: wants abortion to be on the national agenda. So she

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Speaker 1: said that there should be more laws put in place

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Speaker 1: to stop late term abortions. Again, something interesting about the

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Speaker 1: debate about abortion in Australia is that a lot of

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Speaker 1: the debate surrounds late term abortions, which, like I've said,

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Speaker 1: they are very rare. Most people are getting abortions way

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Speaker 1: before that. I think it's about one to three percent

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Speaker 1: of abortions that are late term abortions. Interesting, but she's

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Speaker 1: not alone amongst her coalition peers in thinking that this

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Speaker 1: should be addressed at the federal level. Coalition Senators Matt

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Speaker 1: Canavan and Alex Antik have tried to introduce a lot

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Speaker 1: at the federal level to change the abortion laws in Australia.

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Speaker 3: I do think it's important there just to note that

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Speaker 3: both Matt Canavan and Alex Antik do sit almost on

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Speaker 3: the fringes of the Coalition, so they're not necessarily kind

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Speaker 3: of the mainstream broad.

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Speaker 1: Notion generally considered far to the right. But it was

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Speaker 1: actually only in August. I missed this story. But there

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Speaker 1: was also a motion for the Senate to quote recognize

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Speaker 1: that at least one baby is born alive every seven

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Speaker 1: days following a failed abortion and left to die, and

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Speaker 1: that Australia's healthcare system is enabling these inhumane deaths. So

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Speaker 1: there was a motion in Australia's Senate to recognize that statement,

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Speaker 1: but that was defeated. That did not happen in the end. So,

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Speaker 1: like I said, I missed that story, and these stories

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Speaker 1: have kind of popped up here and there, but they

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Speaker 1: haven't got a whole lot of attention because it has

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Speaker 1: always been shut down quite quickly, and.

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Speaker 3: That motion wasn't introduced by either the government or the coalition.

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Speaker 3: That was by a minor party member. So again going

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Speaker 3: to this thing about you know how much weight do

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Speaker 3: we give motions or ideas or you know, laws that

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Speaker 3: won't really ever be realized in Australian Parliament.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, and just Enterprice's requests for this to be something

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Speaker 1: that is considered on the national agenda was also shut

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Speaker 1: down yesterday when Liberal Senator Jane Hume was quite strong

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Speaker 1: in her words and saying that the coalition has no

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Speaker 1: plan to make abortion a federal issue. So she said, quote,

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Speaker 1: there are no plans for a coalition government led by

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Speaker 1: Peter Duttan to make any changes to women's reproductive rights right.

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Speaker 3: Not leaving much room there at all for further discussion exactly.

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Speaker 1: So I think we can say that mostly at the

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Speaker 1: federal level and also in South Australia the debate has

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Speaker 1: kind of been settled now, but the one debate that

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Speaker 1: is still ongoing is the one in Queensland because, like

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Speaker 1: I mentioned, Robbie Catter is planning to introduce that private

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Speaker 1: member's bill after the election, and so it kind of

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Speaker 1: depends who gets into government to see where it goes.

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Speaker 1: But like I mentioned, I think it's a really important

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Speaker 1: thing to note that the opposition who are trying to

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Speaker 1: get into government have said that there will be no changes.

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Speaker 1: So they would argue that it doesn't matter who gets

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Speaker 1: into government, nothing will change. Obviously. Others think otherwise.

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Speaker 3: Time will tell an extremely interesting conversation to be had.

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Speaker 3: And I think when there are all these different stories

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Speaker 3: happening kind of across the country, when you pull it

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Speaker 3: all together in one place, I really try to make

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Speaker 3: sense of it.

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Speaker 2: It is quite a telling story.

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Speaker 3: So thank you for explaining that, Billy, and thank you

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Speaker 3: for listening to another episode over the Daily os. If

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Speaker 3: you're listening to this on Spotify or Apple, we would

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Speaker 3: on YouTube, hello, and we would love you to hit subscribe.

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Speaker 3: We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a

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Speaker 3: fabulous day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Runda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Caalcutin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strain island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,