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Speaker 1: As I said, we know that the government's forging ahead

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Speaker 1: with these legislative changes and reform aimed at reducing crime

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory. But many have been questioning where

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Speaker 1: those who break the law will go. They are some

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Speaker 1: of the questions that have been asked over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of years, or over the last certainly a few years.

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Speaker 1: As people have been getting in trouble. You know, why

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Speaker 1: aren't we sending them to jail has been some of

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Speaker 1: the questions raised. Others saying, you know, our jails are

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Speaker 1: bursting at the seam. Surely there's got to be other options.

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Speaker 1: But what we know is that the plan that the

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Speaker 1: COLP has unveiled this going to see an increase to

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Speaker 1: the territory's corrections capacity by three thousand beds by twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty eight. Additional capacity is in the first step, one

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Speaker 1: thousand extra beds. That's over the next four years. It

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Speaker 1: will also see the immediate conversion of don Dale Youth

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Speaker 1: Detention Center for temporary use by up to fifty low

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Speaker 1: security adult male prisoners in December. Now, the Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: Selena Ubo joins me on the line. Good morning to you, Selena.

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Speaker 1: Let me just try that again once more. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you, Selena.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, Good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much for your time. Now, obviously a big

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Speaker 1: announcement yesterday by the COLP government. What did Labor? What

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Speaker 1: did Labor make of that announcement that was made by

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Speaker 1: the COLP in terms of increasing the correctional facilities and

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Speaker 1: the number of beads O Katie.

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Speaker 2: A lot of what the COLP unveiled yesterday was actually

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Speaker 2: Labour's plans before the elections, So of course we're not

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Speaker 2: disputing majority of that plan. I'd say probably about ninety

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Speaker 2: percent of the CLP's plan yesterday is just based on

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Speaker 2: what we put before the election around some of those plans,

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Speaker 2: particularly around the pressures of the correction system and supporting

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Speaker 2: our corrections officers and the staff. So we welcomed that

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Speaker 2: the clpiece continued on some of that plan that we

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Speaker 2: already had in corrections. There was one key element that

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Speaker 2: we don't support me I've been asking questions, and that

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Speaker 2: was the move of youth from Alice Springs, Katie, to

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Speaker 2: the to Darwin to the Darwin Detention Center and then

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Speaker 2: the new distention center that's purpose built, and that was

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Speaker 2: refurbished in Alice Springs is going to be now used

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Speaker 2: for female prisoners, So we're just really keen to know

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Speaker 2: what cost that will be. Will staff correction staff have

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Speaker 2: to move to Darwin to then facilitate the extra young

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Speaker 2: people from Central Australian from the Barkley in Darwin. So

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Speaker 2: they're the things that the CLP hasn't answered, So we'll

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Speaker 2: just be asking those questions for them, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think they're fair enough questions to ask. I mean,

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Speaker 1: exactly how much it's going to cost is a very

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Speaker 1: fair question. Selena, you did and I will go to

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Speaker 1: the issue with the youths in Alice in a moment,

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Speaker 1: but you did mention that you know that the large

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Speaker 1: majority of use of what the CLP announced yesterday is

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Speaker 1: actually part of was actually part of Labour's plans. But

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Speaker 1: then you have also got a situation where you know

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Speaker 1: where the likes of Chancey Paik has said that jaling

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Speaker 1: is failing. So which is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, Well, we did our work to cost those

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Speaker 2: changes when we were going to the territory election, because

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Speaker 2: obviously it actually got to be your job if you're

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Speaker 2: going to be in government, you have to show territories,

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Speaker 2: what you're going to pay for and how you're going

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Speaker 2: to pay it. So we costed our changes and our

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Speaker 2: plan around corrections two hundred and thirty six million. We

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Speaker 2: know THEE and changes to our original plane thatt THEP

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Speaker 2: has added to. So we're wanting to ask those questions,

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Speaker 2: of course, but what the THEOP hasn't done, Katie. And

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Speaker 2: this is an area of work that we were many

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Speaker 2: many years in the making in our former labor government,

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Speaker 2: which is around alternatives to custody. We've got too up

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Speaker 2: and running in the territory around adult alternatives to custody,

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Speaker 2: and that's really focused on change of behavior of offending,

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Speaker 2: really going to those root causes of why someone ends

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Speaker 2: up in the justice system, addressing those behaviors and then

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Speaker 2: stepping them out of the justice system because it really

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Speaker 2: cost taxpayers over three hundred and twenty dollars a day

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Speaker 2: for one prisoner, whether that's someone who's been sentenced or

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Speaker 2: on remand in our jail. So if we're talking about

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Speaker 2: stepping people out, making sure that we have people who

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Speaker 2: face consequences, but ultimately Katie, who don't reoffend because it

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Speaker 2: costs all of us money. They don't reoffend that we've

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Speaker 2: got those programs in place, and we've got those alternatives

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Speaker 2: to custody so we can see people contribute positively back

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Speaker 2: into our communities wherever that may be. So they're the

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Speaker 2: sort of things we would love to see the COLP

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Speaker 2: talk about. They've spoken a lot about consequences and punitive measures,

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Speaker 2: which we understand around community safety. We don't dispute that,

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Speaker 2: but what we'd like to see is what are those

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Speaker 2: plans around alternatives to custody, expanding those programs to really

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Speaker 2: address those root causes of crime and the behavior of offending.

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Speaker 1: I guess you're in a bit of a rock and

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Speaker 1: a hard place at the moment though, as the opposition,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of people, you know, we saw the

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Speaker 1: results from the election, people were really fed up with

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Speaker 1: Labour's approach when it comes to crime. Honest, A lot

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Speaker 1: of the feedback that we are receiving over the last

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Speaker 1: few days is that people are actually really quite pleased

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Speaker 1: that the COLP government is taking action here and is

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Speaker 1: making moves to really try to treat the issue of

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Speaker 1: crime more seriously and feel that Labor did not do

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Speaker 1: that and did.

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Speaker 2: Not listen to them and we understand, Katie, and that

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Speaker 2: was obviously the big decision at the territory election, which

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Speaker 2: we absolutely respect. We welcome any of the measures that

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Speaker 2: the colp is going to be looking at around reducing

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Speaker 2: crime and preventing crime, because that's what they promised territory

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Speaker 2: and so we want to make sure that they live

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Speaker 2: up to those promises and those commitments. We'll ask those

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Speaker 2: questions of course around how they're going to do that,

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Speaker 2: because you know, we would love to see and to

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Speaker 2: be able to support those good measures of how they're

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Speaker 2: going to do that if it's something that we feel

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Speaker 2: is going to make our community safer. We also want

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Speaker 2: to make sure we know how they're going to pay

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Speaker 2: for it. Territories deserve to know how they're going to pay.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any idea? I mean, based on what

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Speaker 1: you said a little bit earlier, is that you know

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Speaker 1: so that quite a bit of what they are implementing

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Speaker 1: you say was part of Labour's plan, about ninety percent

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Speaker 1: of what they're implementing. So how much did you guys

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Speaker 1: cost it at and what do you think that their

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Speaker 1: plan that they announced yesterday is going to cost the

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Speaker 1: territory to.

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Speaker 2: Expayer our costings for that prior to the election Katie

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Speaker 2: was two hundred and thirty six million. Obviously, with those

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Speaker 2: changes the CLPS put in around the Alla Springs youth

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Speaker 2: being moved to Darwin, that was not part of our plan.

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Speaker 2: So that's something I hope that they're costing or that

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Speaker 2: they'll be able to tell territories how much it will

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Speaker 2: cost for those moves, and particularly around impact of staff

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Speaker 2: and making sure that that is a process that happens

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Speaker 2: smoothly and if it's cost effective then they can share

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Speaker 2: that with territorians. Also, again, those expansion of those programs

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Speaker 2: and processes to support the judiciary around sentencing to either

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Speaker 2: programs that can help support someone out of justice. In

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Speaker 2: terms of addressing that reoffending the Abitual Justice Agreement, they've

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Speaker 2: been very silent on that. That's really around making sure

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Speaker 2: that those root causes of crime and adult justice for

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Speaker 2: actual territories to represent. I think in jail for men,

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Speaker 2: it's nine out of ten territories in jail are Aboriginal.

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Speaker 2: For women, it's eight out of ten women in our

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Speaker 2: justice system are Aboriginal. So really going to again that

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Speaker 2: collaborative work that bipartisans support, which Lifanociarro when she was

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Speaker 2: the opposition leader signed on TOYEP. So we're very keen

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Speaker 2: to really focus on that. We understand the measures that

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Speaker 2: are put in place, we understand territorians expectations, so we

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Speaker 2: want to be very constructive, particularly around an area that

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Speaker 2: is quite complex and unfortunately does cost a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: So, I mean, do you guys anticipate or is labor

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Speaker 1: thinking that it is going to cost taxpayers around seven

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Speaker 1: hundred million dollars to fully implement. I know that that

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Speaker 1: had been published in the media. Is that right or

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Speaker 1: is that aiming? I mean, is that sort of saying

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Speaker 1: a bit higher than what it's actually going to cost.

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Speaker 2: Katie. That's when we're talking about building a new jail,

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Speaker 2: and some of the area of plans is around new

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Speaker 2: wings to be able to alleviate that pressure for you know,

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Speaker 2: corrections and that process. But if we're looking at building

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Speaker 2: a new jail, which the CLP hasn't quite come that

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Speaker 2: far to say, which I'm assuming that that may be

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Speaker 2: you know, in the works for them, but that would

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Speaker 2: be up to around seven hundred million to a billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: If you're looking at a new facility, if you're looking

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Speaker 2: at a new prison in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: All right, I want to ask you about the aspect

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Speaker 1: that I know that the Labor Party was actually asking

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Speaker 1: about in question time last week, and that is children

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Speaker 1: being moved from the Alla Springs Youth Correctional Facility up

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Speaker 1: here to Darwin. Is that a concern from your perspective?

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Speaker 2: Well, the CLP has talked about, especially with lowering the

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Speaker 2: age of criminal responsibility. Last week the Chief Minister and

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Speaker 2: her team have spoken about having more programs and having

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Speaker 2: more opportunity, need to be on country, having averaginal leadership

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Speaker 2: really brought to the table all things that you know

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Speaker 2: Labor supported and that we were you know, in the

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Speaker 2: works with government. Didn't quite land there obviously before the election,

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Speaker 2: but it's again and it's an ongoing piece of work.

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Speaker 2: So we welcome that from the COLP. But you can't

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Speaker 2: do that, Katie. If you take a child away from

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Speaker 2: family and country, you know, fifteen hundred kilometers, you don't

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Speaker 2: give that child the opportunity to be either on country

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Speaker 2: in a program that is really focused on having those

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Speaker 2: consequences faced, but stepping that young person out of the

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Speaker 2: justice system, having leadership from that community whether it's average

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Speaker 2: leadership or non average leadership. Either way it doesn't matter.

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Speaker 2: But having that person really face the consequences in their

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Speaker 2: community and understand the impact on their community, you're not

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Speaker 2: going to get that. If a child from Mala Springs

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Speaker 2: or Tenant Kriegers moved to Darla.

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Speaker 1: The Chief Minister said on the show yesterday that there

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Speaker 1: are not as many visits to those children as what

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Speaker 1: people would expect. The Commissioner for Correction said the same

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Speaker 1: thing this morning. What's your reaction to that, Katie.

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Speaker 2: There's some very strong measures around making sure that those

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Speaker 2: young people are supported and that can be through It

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Speaker 2: may not be through family, it could be through other processes.

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Speaker 2: But there's also a process that is legislated which is

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Speaker 2: a community visitor program and that is monthly. There's reports

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Speaker 2: provided to the Responsible Minister on the operations of a

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Speaker 2: youth detention center and we have the same for our

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Speaker 2: work camps and our prisons for adult corrections as well.

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Speaker 2: So there are those processes to make sure a young

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Speaker 2: person or an adult is getting what they need in

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Speaker 2: terms of you know what's written out in the UN

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Speaker 2: Declaration of Human Rights when you're in detention, So making

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Speaker 2: sure that those processes adhere to I think it's actually

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Speaker 2: quite a bit of a flippant comment from the Chief

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Speaker 2: Minute to say all those kids don't get visited anyone.

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Speaker 1: Minister as well.

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Speaker 2: The correction I think that's a big and I really

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Speaker 2: do encourage the new Corrections Minister Jared Mayley, our Deputy

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister, to go on need to talk to those families,

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Speaker 2: those gardens, those services that do have that regular contact

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Speaker 2: with those young people to understand what this type of

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Speaker 2: impact of a decision will mean for those young people,

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Speaker 2: for those families, and for those justice advocates around stepping

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Speaker 2: a young person out of the justice system.

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Speaker 1: Look, we've just received a message that came through from Sir,

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Speaker 1: says says Morning Katie. It's not about locking up more

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Speaker 1: Indigenous people. It's about locking up anyone that does the

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Speaker 1: wrong thing. I wish people of all races would stop

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Speaker 1: making it about race. If you do the wrong thing,

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Speaker 1: there needs to be consequences. Says Sir. I mean, what's

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Speaker 1: your reaction to that, because I know that there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about, you know, about whether this

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Speaker 1: is going to see more Indigenous people incarcerated. But I

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Speaker 1: guess a lot of people in the community are saying, well,

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Speaker 1: if you know whoever you are, wherever you're from, you know,

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Speaker 1: no matter what your background, that if you're breaking the law,

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Speaker 1: then then you are going to have to face the

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Speaker 1: consequence to breaking that law.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Katie, and we agree in terms of when you've

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Speaker 2: done the wrong thing, you should be facing consequences. Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: But when you're looking at the data in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 2: which goes to the point about the outcry from the

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Speaker 2: Member for Mulka, the Northern Territory has the highest rates

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Speaker 2: of incarceration of Aboriginal people in the country and it

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Speaker 2: has been disputed in the world. But I'll just focus

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Speaker 2: on Australia because obviously that's where we live when we're

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Speaker 2: talking about the impact. What we really want to see

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Speaker 2: the Coop government is to really address those root causes

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about investment in education, health and housing,

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Speaker 2: to make those social determinants which unfortunately, if you don't

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Speaker 2: have a safe place to live, if you don't have

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Speaker 2: food in your belly every day, if you can't get

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Speaker 2: to school, or you don't have a safe environment to

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Speaker 2: live in young people unfortunately do enter into the justice

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Speaker 2: system at that younger age, if we're not also investing

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Speaker 2: in the preventative measures of those key corner stone which

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Speaker 2: every territory in regardless of your color of skin, deserves

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Speaker 2: to have. So when we look at the justice system,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately it tends to be close to one hundred percent

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Speaker 2: of young people in our justice system, in our detention

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Speaker 2: centers are Aboriginal. We've already rattled off the stats for adults,

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Speaker 2: so we can't dispute that. So this will also mean

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Speaker 2: that looking at the data, looking at the stats, nothing

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Speaker 2: about the antidotes of you know, everybody is being treated

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Speaker 2: the same. Yes they are, because it doesn't matter what

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Speaker 2: color skin, you will be adhering to those consequences. We

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Speaker 2: don't dispute that, but this will ensure if we don't. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: we need to ensure that the preventative measures are also

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Speaker 2: invested in if we're not to see that stat grow

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Speaker 2: and seeing more abgual territories affected because we don't have

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Speaker 2: the investment in the preventative measures. That's what we really

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Speaker 2: want to make sure the CLP doesn't drop the ball

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Speaker 2: on that.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll move along, because there is so much happening.

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Speaker 1: We know that Parliament is indeed sitting again today and

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, Labor is going to try and

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Speaker 1: take a real focus on the issues that we're seeing

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Speaker 1: around domestic violence. Selena, as the opposition leader, can you

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Speaker 1: talk us through exactly what your plans are in this

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Speaker 1: space throughout the week when Parliament sits.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And it sort of leads on a bit of

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Speaker 2: the conversation that we had last week on the week

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Speaker 2: that was Katie and an area that we know that

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Speaker 2: the new CLP government does want to take an interest in,

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Speaker 2: which is around those devastating and horrific levels of family,

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Speaker 2: domestic and sexual violence impact in the territory and indeed,

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Speaker 2: unfortunately death that we've seen here in the territory so

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Speaker 2: far and predominantly affecting women Katie, which is just horrific.

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Speaker 2: So what we're going to be putting into Parliament today

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Speaker 2: is a matter of public importance around the impacts of family,

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Speaker 2: domestic and sexual violence. We think this is an area

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Speaker 2: of interest and I know your listeners have also expressed

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Speaker 2: a keen interest in how do we address this and

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Speaker 2: we really want to work in a bipartisan way across

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Speaker 2: the whole of the Parliament. We want to support the

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Speaker 2: new government in those con stations around needs based funding,

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Speaker 2: which we talked about when we were a labor government phase. Here,

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Speaker 2: we know that there's an interest from our Independence and

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Speaker 2: the Crossbench in this area because it is an area

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Speaker 2: that affects all of us across the territory. Black, white, brindle, brown, whatever, race, religion, sexuality.

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Speaker 2: We are gender that we are, but we need to

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Speaker 2: band together if we're to address this really horrific devastating

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Speaker 2: impact in our community. So we're really reaching out to

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Speaker 2: Parliament and make sure that that's front and center and

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Speaker 2: particularly under the new government, and getting their interest in

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Speaker 2: this area too.

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Speaker 1: So Selena, in terms of that matter of public importance,

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Speaker 1: it's got to be something that the government agrees to

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Speaker 1: discussing as well, doesn't it. What's the process this morning

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Speaker 1: with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, No, it's any member can put a matter of

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Speaker 2: public importance to the Parliament. It needs to be in

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Speaker 2: with the Speaker by particular time. We put ours in yesterday, Katie,

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Speaker 2: and it means every member of Parliament gets an opportunity

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Speaker 2: to talk on that matter that is believed to be

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Speaker 2: of public importance for the territory. So we really have

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Speaker 2: that all members, regardless of what persuasion of politics they are,

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Speaker 2: get the chance to talk on this and show that

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Speaker 2: we want to work together for this really important and

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Speaker 2: devastating issue that's affecting all of our communities as territory.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think this is a I think this is

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Speaker 1: a good thing to do. I do think it's so

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Speaker 1: incredibly important, as we discussed on the week that was

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Speaker 1: on Friday last week, Like you've touched on, it is

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Speaker 1: something that is having an absolutely devastating impact in the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory and we all understand that. But I hope

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Speaker 1: that by discussing it in Parliament, I hope that by

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Speaker 1: raising it as a matter of public importance, that it

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Speaker 1: maybe gets that national attention that we actually need right

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Speaker 1: now for the federal government to potentially step up and

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Speaker 1: provide that needs based funding.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie. That's what Labour believes and we really

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Speaker 2: look forward to working with all members of Parliament so

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Speaker 2: we can try and get some traction for the Northern

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Speaker 2: Territory and make our community safer for our territorians who

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Speaker 2: are experienced failing domestic and sexual wify.

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Speaker 1: Look, I know you've got a busy day ahead, Selena

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Speaker 1: Rubo opposition leader. Always appreciate your time. Thanks for having

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Speaker 1: a chat.

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Speaker 2: This morning, Thank you, Katie, and a big thanks to

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Speaker 2: your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Thank you.