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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just once answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, sleepovers are these formative experiences. They're these things that

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Speaker 2: you just remember for your entire life.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello. This is doctor Justin Coulson, the author of six

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Speaker 2: books about raising happy families. And I'm here with Kylie,

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Speaker 2: my wife and podcast partner, mum to our six daughters,

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Speaker 2: and we're excited to talk to you about a really

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Speaker 2: tricky topic because Easter is just around the corner. That

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Speaker 2: means school holidays and school holidays, memes, sleepovers, which is

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Speaker 2: awesome and are terrifying all at once.

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Speaker 3: So look, some of my best memories were memories that

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Speaker 3: I had with sleepovers.

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Speaker 2: Same but I also got into trouble on sleepovers as well, and.

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Speaker 3: I also felt ostracized, left out and alone, and you know,

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Speaker 3: kind of just completely on the outer.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that did too many neody runs sleepovers. I'm sorry.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is about boys and sleepovers,

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Speaker 2: but just an opportunity to go skinny dipping or take

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Speaker 2: your clothes off and run around their shopping center car

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Speaker 2: park while you're skateboarding and get paid five bucks. Boy,

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Speaker 2: your friends. We had one sleepover one night. I can't

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Speaker 2: believe that I just shared that we had one sleepover

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Speaker 2: one night where I went into the cupboard and my

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Speaker 2: parents had this big walk in pantry. It was an

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Speaker 2: oversized pantry and my mum always bought stuff in bulk.

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Speaker 2: There was a two lee that's chocolate topping for ice cream,

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Speaker 2: and one of my friends, Aaron. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: Aaron Turner actually listens to this podcast or not, but

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Speaker 2: I'm putting you in at redg Aaron walked into the

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Speaker 2: pantry and said, what do you need all that chocolate

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Speaker 2: topping for? And we started talking about how much ice

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Speaker 2: cream we obviously ate and one of the guys we

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Speaker 2: had about four or five of us sleeping over that night,

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Speaker 2: and one of the guys says, I bet you can't

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Speaker 2: drink it, Aaron, and we all bet him five dollars each.

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Speaker 2: I think he was going to score twenty dollars if

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Speaker 2: he could drink two leaders of chocolate topping, and he

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Speaker 2: picked it up off the shelf, took the lid off

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Speaker 2: and started to drink pure chocolate topping. Got my stomach.

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Speaker 4: This churning.

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Speaker 2: He drank more than a leader of Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 2: Then and then he burped, and the whole room just

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Speaker 2: smelt like these are the memories of childhood, like this

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Speaker 2: is this is great stuff. Why wouldn't you want your

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Speaker 2: kids to have sleepovers? Honestly, what's your best memory?

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Speaker 3: I can't even top those? Honestly, Nody runs. Seriously, us

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Speaker 3: girls clearly were not as adventurous as as you boys

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Speaker 3: were because there were no Nody runs and there were

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Speaker 3: definitely no eating competitions like that. I do remember once

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Speaker 3: I may have been peanut buttered all over my face.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's gross, because.

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Speaker 4: I happened to be the first one to fall asleep.

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Speaker 2: That yeah, cruelty, that's horrible. And the worst thing about

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Speaker 2: having peanut butter on your face is number one, it's

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Speaker 2: gonna be all greasy, and number two, you're not gonna

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Speaker 2: be able to get rid of the smell. Like your

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Speaker 2: face would have smelled like peanut butter for days. I reckon, yeah, and.

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Speaker 4: It was crunchy peanut butter. It didn't go on very nice.

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Speaker 2: Right. So do you have any other, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: over the top stories from sleepovers or were they fairly sedate,

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Speaker 2: and like you said, you just had to make sure

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Speaker 2: that everyone didn't stay up too late or say anything

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Speaker 2: nasty to each other.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you know the main ones that I remember,

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Speaker 3: just a group of girls and we just truth and

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Speaker 3: dare We used to play that affair bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah bottle, yeah right, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, But this

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Speaker 2: is what I'm talking about. From I don't know, let's say,

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Speaker 2: from the age of ten or eleven, maybe twelve, you

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Speaker 2: start to have these experiences with your friends at sleepovers

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Speaker 2: where you would not do any of that. And I

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Speaker 2: think this is why parents are worried, right, because when

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Speaker 2: you have a sleepover, you've got the big issues. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so there's safety of your child, just keeping them protected,

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Speaker 2: and there's the concerns about pornography. I can't tell you

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Speaker 2: how many parents have come to me and said, my

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Speaker 2: eleven year old was exposed to pornography to sleepover. Sometimes

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Speaker 2: it's the big brother coming into the room. Sometimes it's

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Speaker 2: just the kids looking up rude words on their iPads

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Speaker 2: or something like that. But the other just the regular

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Speaker 2: stuff you've got. You've got kids staying up really late,

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Speaker 2: which means that their willpower is low. They start to

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Speaker 2: talk about things that they would never normally talk about

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Speaker 2: during the daytime. But they're tired now and they're feeling

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Speaker 2: close and intimate, and they start sharing well.

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Speaker 4: And usually the lights are out by the time you start.

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Speaker 4: Do you know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: You're not staring at each other face to face, and

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Speaker 3: so you're a lot more comfortable sharing things when you

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Speaker 3: don't think that anybody can see you.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's exhausted, everyone's sugared up, and then the friendship dramas happen.

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Speaker 2: It's no wonder that sleepovers are such a controversial topic

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Speaker 2: and some families just say, no, we don't do them.

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Speaker 2: I think what we should do is talk about how

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Speaker 2: parents can make decisions about whether a sleepover is a

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Speaker 2: good idea or not. Let's do that.

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Speaker 1: Next, it's their Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: For a happier family, try a Happy Families membership, because

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Speaker 3: as a happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 2: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers Now.

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Speaker 2: We had to sleep over at our place recently. Our

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Speaker 2: thirteen year old daughter had a bunch of friends over

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Speaker 2: and it was heartening. Of the five kids that stayed overnight,

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Speaker 2: I reckon four of them. Four of them had parents

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Speaker 2: who directly contacted us and said.

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Speaker 3: Well, in the fifth one, we actually know personally and

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Speaker 3: they've been in our home numerous times, so they didn't

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Speaker 3: need to have the same conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So every single one of these girls parents contacted us.

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Speaker 2: Our daughter gave them our phone number and said they

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Speaker 2: literally said, we don't really know you. We just wanted

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Speaker 2: to kind of say hi and find out what the

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Speaker 2: plans are.

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Speaker 3: It was just so nice to have that conversation because

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Speaker 3: it helped me not knowing them either, it helped me

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Speaker 3: to feel like we were in alignment as parents. We

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Speaker 3: were all on the same page. We wanted to make

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Speaker 3: sure our children were safe. And I feel a lot

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Speaker 3: better when my child is spending time with their child

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Speaker 3: because they're asking the same questions that I would ask.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that whole it takes a village, so let's be

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Speaker 2: aligned and that way, the children can't say oh yeah,

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Speaker 2: but we're allowed to. And there they did this and

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Speaker 2: it's just so nice. The parents were all wonderful. The

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Speaker 2: girls had a great time. We had one parents say

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Speaker 2: my daughter has two games of netball tomorrow, one starting

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Speaker 2: at eight o'clock in the morning, so we'll be there

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Speaker 2: at seven point thirty. Please promise us that they'll go

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Speaker 2: to bed at a reasonable hour. And we were like,

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Speaker 2: perfect job done, and the girls knew that it was

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Speaker 2: a big deal. Five or six thirteen year old girls

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Speaker 2: all crashing in the living room and they know that

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Speaker 2: they're being entrusted. They were great. They did the they

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Speaker 2: did the makeup.

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Speaker 3: Thing, the blind makeovers. I went down to check on

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Speaker 3: them at ten thirty and they were all huddled in

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Speaker 3: the on sweet downstairs, and they scared the living daylights

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Speaker 3: out of me. They looked like pirates or something, with

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Speaker 3: these big black eyes and red lips that didn't quite

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Speaker 3: make their lips. And it was so nice to see

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Speaker 3: these kids just having wholesome fun. The tea didn't go on,

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Speaker 3: they weren't on their screens, and they were just enjoying

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Speaker 3: each other's company. And they saw me walk down the

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Speaker 3: stairs and they said, we know, we're just washing the

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Speaker 3: makeup off and then we're going to bed.

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Speaker 2: I'm sure that plenty of people listening to the podcast

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Speaker 2: would have had experiences where concerning things have happened a sleepover.

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Speaker 2: But we've also had this thing happen just the other

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Speaker 2: week with our daughter, where everything was delightful. The kids

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Speaker 2: were good to each other, they went to bed on time,

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Speaker 2: they didn't junk up too much on sugar.

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Speaker 4: If you know what the highlight of that sleepover was?

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Speaker 2: Everything went nicely? No, what was it?

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Speaker 3: It was the next morning when the girls were getting

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Speaker 3: ready to leave, they packed up the room. They asked

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Speaker 3: me where the vacuum cleaner was. They also got the mop.

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Speaker 3: They mocked my child floor downstairs and made sure that

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Speaker 3: the room was spotless before they left.

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Speaker 2: So how do we have these success well, my children,

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Speaker 2: it was my friend, that's the friends. How do we

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Speaker 2: make this happen? How do parents who listened to the

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Speaker 2: podcast get this right? I reckon, there's a handful of

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Speaker 2: things that we need to run through. First off, what's

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Speaker 2: too young? When's the right age for a sleepover? What's

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Speaker 2: your take as a mum?

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Speaker 3: Look, I think every parent is going to have and

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Speaker 3: every family is going to have their own.

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Speaker 4: Standards on this.

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Speaker 3: For us, definitely in high school and for our thirteen

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Speaker 3: year old who's almost fourteen, this is the first sleepover

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Speaker 3: she's actually had and.

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Speaker 2: We've always had that rule. We've made a couple of

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Speaker 2: exceptions in unusual circumstances, but our rule has been once

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Speaker 2: you're in high school, we'll talk about sleepovers, and not

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Speaker 2: until then.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's not.

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Speaker 3: A given that just because you're a twelve year old

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Speaker 3: you get to have a sleepover, or that you know

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Speaker 3: this is a really big deal.

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Speaker 2: Okay, next thing, I would say, know the family, and

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Speaker 2: if you don't know the family, get to know them.

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Speaker 2: Have a conversation, and I have the conversation awkwardly. I've

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Speaker 2: done this a few times, and I make a deal

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Speaker 2: about how it's awkward. I'll say to the person, it's

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Speaker 2: really nice to meet you. This is kind of awkward

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Speaker 2: since we don't know each other at all. But because

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Speaker 2: we don't know each other, I've heard a handful of

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Speaker 2: horror stories about sleepovers. I'm really hoping and I'm sure

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Speaker 2: that everything's going to be okay, But can I just

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Speaker 2: ask a couple of questions just so that I can

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Speaker 2: have that reassurance. And I literally I will ask who's

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Speaker 2: going to be in the house? Are you going to

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Speaker 2: have any visitors? Are there any big brothers? And we

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Speaker 2: have a rule in our family that boys don't go

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Speaker 2: into girls rooms. So if they do have big brothers,

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Speaker 2: what can we do to help the kids be separate?

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Speaker 2: And usually the parents will say, we're talking about a

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Speaker 2: big brother here. He doesn't want to know about the

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Speaker 2: little girls and their you know, he's going to stay

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Speaker 2: as far away as he can because he doesn't want

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Speaker 2: to be near them. But I reckon, we've got to

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Speaker 2: ask that question and be really clear about knowing who's

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Speaker 2: in the house, and the family that you're talking to

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Speaker 2: then knows that you really do care.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it holds it holds everybody accountable. When

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Speaker 3: we ask those kinds of questions, we're letting them know

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Speaker 3: that these little people in our lives are the most

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Speaker 3: important things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the most important.

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Speaker 3: People in our world, and we're going to do everything

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Speaker 3: we can to keep them safe. And if that means

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Speaker 3: we've got to have a really awkward conversation, then we're

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Speaker 3: willing to, you know, kind of take one for the team.

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Speaker 2: So talking to the other family there isn't always going

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Speaker 2: to be enough. And I think that what we absolutely

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Speaker 2: have to do is talk to our own child and

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Speaker 2: just go over a few ground rules. What are your

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Speaker 2: top three ground rules when our kids have a sleepover

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Speaker 2: at someone else's.

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Speaker 3: We have some guiding principles in our home that we

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Speaker 3: talk to our kids about regularly, and one of the

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Speaker 3: things that we remind them before they walk out the

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Speaker 3: door every day is to just remember those principles. They

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Speaker 3: help to govern the choices that they make. So that

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Speaker 3: would be my first one reminding them.

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Speaker 2: Of reminding of our values.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my second one would one hundred percent be giving

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Speaker 3: them an out. You know, sometimes it's really hard when

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Speaker 3: you're with your friends to say I want to go home,

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Speaker 3: because then you're kind of either called the baby or

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Speaker 3: you know, called all these names because you can't hack it,

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Speaker 3: you can't deal with it. And so in the past,

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Speaker 3: we've given our kids a code. They can just send

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Speaker 3: us a little X via text and we know as

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Speaker 3: soon as we get that message that they're not comfortable

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Speaker 3: being where they are, and we can give them a

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Speaker 3: call and just say, look, something's come up and we

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Speaker 3: need to come and get you.

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Speaker 2: We got one of those text messages a few months

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Speaker 2: ago from one of our kids at about I feel

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Speaker 2: like it was about two o'clock in the morning, that's

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Speaker 2: what it felt like. It was probably ten o'clock at

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Speaker 2: night and she was forty five minutes away. She'd gone

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Speaker 2: with some friends to the Gold Coast. And when I

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Speaker 2: got that text message, I got out of bed that

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Speaker 2: I got in the car and drove forty five minutes

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Speaker 2: down the highway to get her because she was feeling

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Speaker 2: uncomfortable where she was. And I love that piece of advice.

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Speaker 2: Just come up with a code word or something that

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Speaker 2: she can text, and then you just contact the adult

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Speaker 2: in the home and say, our daughter's got a bit

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Speaker 2: of anxiety or our son's not feeling well, and his

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Speaker 2: message to and ask us if we can come get him,

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Speaker 2: and you just go get them, no matter what the

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Speaker 2: time of day it is. I think that it's a

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Speaker 2: terrifically important thing. Anything else that would be in your

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Speaker 2: top three that would.

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Speaker 4: Be my main ones? Have you got anything that I

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Speaker 4: haven't said?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: So I love those two and they're things that we

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Speaker 2: talk about all the time. The other two that I

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Speaker 2: always mention when I'm dropping them off is I want

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Speaker 2: to make sure that they're going to be really responsible

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Speaker 2: around screens, and I discourage screen yous once they get

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Speaker 2: past about nine or ten o'clock at night. Sure if

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Speaker 2: you're watching a movie, that's fine. Make sure you're comfortable

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Speaker 2: with the movie, and then no screens after the movie

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Speaker 2: that keep the screens off once it gets late, because

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Speaker 2: willpower is low and people start looking stuff up or

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Speaker 2: they start texting people and they end up getting into

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Speaker 2: situations sometimes that are just unsafe. And the other thing

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Speaker 2: is bedrooms. If you're going to go into a bedroom,

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Speaker 2: make sure that you're not the only one in their

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Speaker 2: particularly if there are any males around. I hate to

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Speaker 2: say it, I'm a male. I don't have a problem

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Speaker 2: with males. Unfortunately, statistically we know that if there's going

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Speaker 2: to be any harm caused, males are going to be

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Speaker 2: the perpetrators and the vast majority in the highest proportion

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Speaker 2: of cases. So I just I always tell the kids

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Speaker 2: don't be in any bedrooms with any males, whether it's

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Speaker 2: the dad or whether it's all.

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Speaker 4: The reality is it doesn't have to be a bedroom

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Speaker 4: I think, you know.

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Speaker 2: Or in any room. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: For us, as we've spoken with the kids, it's just

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Speaker 3: you're staying too you're with your friend all the time.

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Speaker 2: So the take home message again, reinstate your values with

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Speaker 2: your kids before they go anywhere. Let them know that

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Speaker 2: they can contact you any time so that you will

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Speaker 2: and you will come and help them, make sure that

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Speaker 2: they know the rules about screens, and to the extent

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Speaker 2: that it's possible, discourage them from being in any kind

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Speaker 2: of room or situation where they're alone with somebody who

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Speaker 2: could be threatening to them in any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 2: I think that's and also know the family to the

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Speaker 2: very best of your ability to have the conversation with

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Speaker 2: the parents and find out exactly what kind of entertainment

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Speaker 2: is on the menu for the kids that night. We

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Speaker 2: hope that this has been a helpful podcast for you

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Speaker 2: if you're in that situation and the kids are pressuring

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Speaker 2: you for a sleepover. If you would like more information

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Speaker 2: about how you can make your family happier, you can

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Speaker 2: find it at happy families dot com dot a you.

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Speaker 2: We'd love it if you'd leave a rating and review

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Speaker 2: for the podcast. People find out about the podcast when

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Speaker 2: you do that, and we can make their family happier

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Speaker 2: and safer as well. And we appreciate the work of

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Speaker 2: Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. He's the producer of the podcast.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Craig Bruce. More details at Happy

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Speaker 2: families dot com, dot A, the