1
00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:08,760
Speaker 1: Jesse Stevens is learning how to switch off. As a

2
00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:11,800
Speaker 1: celebrated writer and the host of a number of hugely

3
00:00:11,840 --> 00:00:16,200
Speaker 1: successful podcasts, including Muma, Mia, Out Loud, and Canceled, there's

4
00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,440
Speaker 1: no question that her ability to switch on and stay

5
00:00:19,520 --> 00:00:24,840
Speaker 1: on has massively contributed to her career, but she's discovering

6
00:00:24,920 --> 00:00:28,080
Speaker 1: that being switched on all the time has its limits.

7
00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,840
Speaker 1: Without setting time aside to truly turn off her brain,

8
00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,200
Speaker 1: she knows that her time spent working won't be nearly

9
00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:39,600
Speaker 1: as productive. So how does a writer with an incredibly

10
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,600
Speaker 1: demanding media schedule find time not just to produce great work,

11
00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:51,720
Speaker 1: but also to take a proper rest. I'm doctor Amantha Imbach,

12
00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,080
Speaker 1: an organizational psychologist and the host of How I Work,

13
00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,600
Speaker 1: and I'm trying something a little different for the next

14
00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:03,520
Speaker 1: few weeks. This is How I Live, a series that

15
00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:08,120
Speaker 1: gives you an inside look but some super accomplished people's

16
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:13,920
Speaker 1: top strategies for living a happy, productive, and impactful life. Jesse,

17
00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:17,920
Speaker 1: let's start with tell me about your favorite time saving hack.

18
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:26,279
Speaker 2: My favorite time saving hack lately has been to try

19
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:30,399
Speaker 2: and do things before midday, which is hard given that

20
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,600
Speaker 2: I am an absolute night out. But I feel like

21
00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,759
Speaker 2: if I can get some momentum early in the day

22
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,960
Speaker 2: and to me, anything before middays, early in the day,

23
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,800
Speaker 2: then I feel as though I've got some energy and

24
00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:49,040
Speaker 2: that helps. And I also find that and I found

25
00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,800
Speaker 2: this with writing books that's taught me the most about

26
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,760
Speaker 2: time saving and time management. The thing that I've sort

27
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:59,639
Speaker 2: of found the most is that if you sit down

28
00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,800
Speaker 2: and say I have all day to day to write

29
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,400
Speaker 2: my book, you will not write a word. So what

30
00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:12,480
Speaker 2: I need in terms of efficiency and time saving is

31
00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:16,360
Speaker 2: to actually have stops throughout the day. And that's not

32
00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,040
Speaker 2: to fill my time necessarily, but to go, okay, at

33
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,120
Speaker 2: twelve o'clock, I'm going to stop and have proper lunch,

34
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,920
Speaker 2: or I'm going to exercise, or I'm going to do

35
00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:30,480
Speaker 2: something completely different. And it's so switching the brain on

36
00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:34,480
Speaker 2: and off that I find actually works really well for

37
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 2: me rather than having this endless I think I had

38
00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,360
Speaker 2: a psychologist say it to me once, like this idea

39
00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 2: that your brain should be on every waking hour is

40
00:02:44,919 --> 00:02:49,240
Speaker 2: totally wrong and it's not good for us. So I've

41
00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,600
Speaker 2: found that very very effective. And every time I sit down,

42
00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,840
Speaker 2: it's like, no, I'm sitting down for half an hour often.

43
00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:56,639
Speaker 2: It's not often, it ends up being a lot longer

44
00:02:56,720 --> 00:02:59,200
Speaker 2: than that, but it's the getting into it that's hard,

45
00:02:59,680 --> 00:03:02,639
Speaker 2: and I can kind of sustain interest after that.

46
00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,480
Speaker 1: I must say, I've got a very similar rule. My

47
00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,720
Speaker 1: best work happens before twelve, and I'm on a big

48
00:03:08,720 --> 00:03:13,079
Speaker 1: book deadline at the moment, and almost in a way,

49
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,919
Speaker 1: it's kind of become a problem because I just can't

50
00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:20,880
Speaker 1: produce good writing after twelve. But it does keep my

51
00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:22,240
Speaker 1: morning very productive.

52
00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,880
Speaker 2: It does, And I think that if you know that

53
00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:27,200
Speaker 2: as well, then you go, well, what I can produce

54
00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 2: is good editing or good research or whatever, and you

55
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,360
Speaker 2: can design your time around around that. But I agree

56
00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 2: that something even for us, night ours like something happens

57
00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:39,119
Speaker 2: early in the day.

58
00:03:39,960 --> 00:03:43,520
Speaker 1: Now, tell me about a daily or a weekly ritual

59
00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,000
Speaker 1: that you have that's made the biggest positive improvement to

60
00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:48,960
Speaker 1: your life over the last few years.

61
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:54,120
Speaker 2: Look, there are a few. And this sounds really cliche

62
00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 2: and boring, and I used to hate it when people

63
00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,960
Speaker 2: said this, but exercise really makes a difference to your life.

64
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:07,800
Speaker 2: What that has done to my ability to focus, to

65
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:11,200
Speaker 2: how I feel within my own body, even things as

66
00:04:11,240 --> 00:04:16,600
Speaker 2: simple as breathing is it just can't be calculated like.

67
00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,640
Speaker 2: It's just made such an enormous difference. I think as well,

68
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,360
Speaker 2: the habit of reading every night before bed has been

69
00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,599
Speaker 2: a great one. It's my mindfulness. It's a form of

70
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:31,440
Speaker 2: meditation for me to be off a screen, to be reading.

71
00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,279
Speaker 2: It's so stimulating and it makes me a better writer,

72
00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,200
Speaker 2: which is something that I want every day.

73
00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:41,520
Speaker 1: Do you think about whether that's fiction or nonfiction in

74
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,160
Speaker 1: terms of your reading? Do you have sort of like

75
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:47,000
Speaker 1: a process within that ritual if you like.

76
00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,920
Speaker 2: I am very much of the idea that it does

77
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,280
Speaker 2: not matter what you are reading or like if it is,

78
00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,120
Speaker 2: you know, a really kind of page turning fiction book.

79
00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 2: I was writing non fit a few years ago, and

80
00:05:01,640 --> 00:05:05,360
Speaker 2: I never read nonfiction, very very rarely read it. Maybe

81
00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,919
Speaker 2: I'll read a memoir or something. But I just love fiction,

82
00:05:09,240 --> 00:05:12,719
Speaker 2: and I think that finding what you love and the

83
00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,320
Speaker 2: genre that you love. I am so agnostic about what

84
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,640
Speaker 2: me and other people read. I just think that there

85
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,560
Speaker 2: is something in Whenever I hear someone who is trying

86
00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:25,120
Speaker 2: to write or wants to be a writer and isn't

87
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,520
Speaker 2: reading every day pretty much, I think you are at

88
00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:32,480
Speaker 2: such a disadvantage because my words actually stop flowing like

89
00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,400
Speaker 2: I'll sit down to write if I haven't read in

90
00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:40,279
Speaker 2: a week and it's crap. It's just I've forgotten sentence, structure, rhythm, pace,

91
00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,840
Speaker 2: what you absorb through that, And that makes it sound

92
00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,080
Speaker 2: like work. And it doesn't feel like work, because in fact,

93
00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:50,360
Speaker 2: I enjoy it more than I enjoy Netflix or anything.

94
00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,760
Speaker 2: It's just it's so active. It's such an active way

95
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:57,400
Speaker 2: to relax and stimulate your brain.

96
00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,240
Speaker 1: What's a piece of advice that you've received and applied

97
00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: that has immeasurably improved your life?

98
00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,120
Speaker 2: Again, I think it's about writing, which is that you

99
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:16,719
Speaker 2: can't edit unwritten words, and that true writing is in

100
00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,479
Speaker 2: the art of rewriting. And that sounds specific, but I

101
00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:26,520
Speaker 2: actually think it's quite general because I'm a recovered perfectionist

102
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:33,360
Speaker 2: and what I have learned from that is that the perfectionist,

103
00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,560
Speaker 2: the person who wants to create the best of everything

104
00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:39,400
Speaker 2: and actually wears out as a badge of honor and

105
00:06:39,400 --> 00:06:43,240
Speaker 2: thinks they're a bit better than everyone. You don't get anywhere,

106
00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:49,720
Speaker 2: like life only rewards a people who finish, So it

107
00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,120
Speaker 2: is better to just sit there. And and it's funny

108
00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,400
Speaker 2: people assume that when you write, you find it easy,

109
00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,960
Speaker 2: and I think actually you probably find it even harder

110
00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,120
Speaker 2: than people who I had to write a speech recently

111
00:07:02,160 --> 00:07:04,520
Speaker 2: for my fist's wedding, and I found it so hard,

112
00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,400
Speaker 2: and I procrastinated and procrastinated. But I have strategies now,

113
00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:14,360
Speaker 2: which is like, I'll go for a walk and literally

114
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:16,760
Speaker 2: write dot points. I'll always start with dot points. I

115
00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:20,240
Speaker 2: need notes. But this idea that I'll sit down and

116
00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:25,000
Speaker 2: write some perfect paragraph is a complete waste of time.

117
00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,280
Speaker 2: So I think that that's totally changed. My approach to

118
00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,640
Speaker 2: working is just get it done.

119
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,240
Speaker 1: What piece of advice do you find yourself giving to

120
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,480
Speaker 1: other people most frequently.

121
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,720
Speaker 2: The one recently? And I don't think I convey it

122
00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:49,120
Speaker 2: very articulately. But I don't think that no matter our

123
00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,560
Speaker 2: field of work or what we do, we're giving ourselves

124
00:07:54,320 --> 00:08:00,480
Speaker 2: enough time to think and self reflect and sit with

125
00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:04,960
Speaker 2: our own thoughts. Right So, and I know that it's

126
00:08:05,000 --> 00:08:06,880
Speaker 2: easy to say, get off your phone, blah blah blah.

127
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 2: That's the biggest piece of advice. None of us do it.

128
00:08:09,160 --> 00:08:12,840
Speaker 2: We're all addicted that ship has sailed. I think it's

129
00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:19,000
Speaker 2: more if you're stuck on a problem work, personal life, writing,

130
00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:23,680
Speaker 2: have you actually sat down for twenty minutes with no

131
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,080
Speaker 2: other stimulus and tried to solve it. And that has

132
00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,800
Speaker 2: been a real big change for me. So I'll get

133
00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,440
Speaker 2: stuck with something, even an idea. I get this with

134
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:37,200
Speaker 2: pitching in the morning, and now in media you've got

135
00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:41,079
Speaker 2: to have ideas, and so your impulse is to scroll

136
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:43,120
Speaker 2: and scroll and scroll and get as many ideas as possible.

137
00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:45,840
Speaker 2: But if you put that phone away and you walk

138
00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,600
Speaker 2: to work or you walk from the bus stop, and

139
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,120
Speaker 2: you give yourself twenty minutes, you'll be so surprised at

140
00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:56,520
Speaker 2: what pops up. And it's a bit of daydreaming, but

141
00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:01,240
Speaker 2: it's also intentional. So even driving like with no input,

142
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:05,560
Speaker 2: you find yourself really solving problems and I think that's

143
00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:11,640
Speaker 2: certainly the biggest one lately. And also finish it, like

144
00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,720
Speaker 2: the amount of people who have half written a book

145
00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,360
Speaker 2: or started a book or whatever. And I think in

146
00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,480
Speaker 2: order to do that you probably need a deadline, whether

147
00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:24,599
Speaker 2: that's externally imposed or internally. But yes, do it and

148
00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:29,760
Speaker 2: really carve time out to think.

149
00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:34,679
Speaker 1: I can really relate to the removing input's advice. I

150
00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,719
Speaker 1: remember a few years ago I read Digital Minimalism by

151
00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:41,880
Speaker 1: Cal Newport and I was just aware that there wasn't

152
00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:45,320
Speaker 1: really a minute in the day where my mind wasn't

153
00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:51,760
Speaker 1: consuming something, and so I identified that all the hours have

154
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,760
Speaker 1: probably spent about five hours a week exercising where I

155
00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:58,640
Speaker 1: was consuming podcasts, and probably about five hours commuting. And

156
00:09:58,679 --> 00:10:01,640
Speaker 1: I thought, for that ten hours, going to restrict myself

157
00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:05,800
Speaker 1: to fifty percent no input time. And I remember the

158
00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:09,119
Speaker 1: first few days of doing that and just being struck

159
00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:14,080
Speaker 1: by the intense creativity that happened in my brain. It's

160
00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,280
Speaker 1: like it was begging to just have some silence to

161
00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:18,559
Speaker 1: let things emerge.

162
00:10:18,679 --> 00:10:24,520
Speaker 2: So I for sure, and you kind of go, oh,

163
00:10:24,679 --> 00:10:27,040
Speaker 2: hang on, I don't want to manage a team or

164
00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,600
Speaker 2: something like you have these incredible epiphanies that you're like,

165
00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:35,319
Speaker 2: I hadn't really thought about that. And there's almost two

166
00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,560
Speaker 2: like you can put that time into two camps. The

167
00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,000
Speaker 2: first is intentional problem solving thinking. If I'm sitting at

168
00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,520
Speaker 2: my computer and I go, I haven't nailed this character,

169
00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,160
Speaker 2: I haven't nailed this scene, then I'll go for a walk.

170
00:10:48,200 --> 00:10:50,880
Speaker 2: That was the best advice I got, which was moving

171
00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,520
Speaker 2: your body is a great way to stimulate your mind

172
00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:59,720
Speaker 2: and kind of unstick you. I suppose in that way.

173
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 2: But the other way is it's really important that you

174
00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:09,440
Speaker 2: have moments in your day and day to day life

175
00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:14,439
Speaker 2: where your brain is off, like completely off. And again

176
00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:18,839
Speaker 2: this is a psychologist saying I went through a period

177
00:11:18,840 --> 00:11:22,880
Speaker 2: where I felt as though maximum productivity meant that when

178
00:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 2: I was, you know, driving, I had to be writing

179
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,720
Speaker 2: this article and I was finding I couldn't sleep. That's

180
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:34,560
Speaker 2: actually not conducive to good creativity or work either. You

181
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:40,920
Speaker 2: need to have multiple modes and really let yourself lay

182
00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:44,240
Speaker 2: on the beach and I don't know, read a really

183
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:48,880
Speaker 2: shitty magazine or something like. That's just as good for you.

184
00:11:48,880 --> 00:11:50,400
Speaker 2: You've got to be able to turn it on and off.

185
00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:55,840
Speaker 1: What's a fail safe way that you find yourself using

186
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:59,040
Speaker 1: to get in the zone when you need to perform,

187
00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:01,199
Speaker 1: you know, whatever almost looks like for you.

188
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:09,160
Speaker 2: Certainly silence, if I can actually manufacture that. I like

189
00:12:09,200 --> 00:12:12,480
Speaker 2: having silence. That's the same with writing and stuff. I'm

190
00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:19,040
Speaker 2: not good with external noise, but I find I'm probably

191
00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:25,840
Speaker 2: quite an anxious person who still gets very nervous, and

192
00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,720
Speaker 2: there are things I have to do, so for example,

193
00:12:29,720 --> 00:12:32,760
Speaker 2: if I'm doing live television or I'm doing a podcast,

194
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,280
Speaker 2: those things still scare me because they ought to, because

195
00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 2: they're high stakes. I will pretty much every time find

196
00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,960
Speaker 2: two minutes and I don't even have to be alone.

197
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,240
Speaker 2: I can do it when people are around. To do

198
00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,240
Speaker 2: this like breathing technique, even if it's placebo, I don't care.

199
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,720
Speaker 2: It completely relaxes my nervous system. And if I know

200
00:12:57,880 --> 00:13:01,120
Speaker 2: that I have done it, then I say to myself,

201
00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:03,800
Speaker 2: all you need in order to perform is enough oxygen

202
00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:06,559
Speaker 2: to your brain. The thing that will make you freeze

203
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 2: is not breathing. And I've frozen before, but it's it

204
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,880
Speaker 2: is not breathing, and your brain goes blank and it's

205
00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 2: the worst feeling. So if you do and I always

206
00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,960
Speaker 2: get the timing mixed up, I always made to google it,

207
00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:24,200
Speaker 2: but even if it's like four in hold for four,

208
00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:28,040
Speaker 2: flour out something like that and just get the oxygen

209
00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,280
Speaker 2: flowing really slowly, then I know that my voice isn't

210
00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,559
Speaker 2: going to shake. I know that I'm not going to

211
00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,520
Speaker 2: sound puffed out, and I know that I can think clearly.

212
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 2: And I can even do it in an ad break.

213
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,200
Speaker 2: I can do it in a podcast studio. If I

214
00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:47,480
Speaker 2: feel myself getting frazzled and just having a strategy something

215
00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:50,000
Speaker 2: to do when I feel my nervous system going to

216
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,440
Speaker 2: overdrive has made a massive difference.

217
00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,560
Speaker 1: We will be back with Jesse soon to hear about

218
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,719
Speaker 1: a book that has fundamentally changed the way she thinks.

219
00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,640
Speaker 1: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way

220
00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 1: you live, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains

221
00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,360
Speaker 1: three cool things that I've discovered that help make my

222
00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,400
Speaker 1: life better in some way. You can sign up for

223
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,800
Speaker 1: that at how I Work dot co. That's how I

224
00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,920
Speaker 1: Work dot co. Now you're a voracious reader, I'd love

225
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,720
Speaker 1: to know what's a book that you've read in recent

226
00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,160
Speaker 1: years that's fundamentally changed the way that you think.

227
00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,760
Speaker 2: I would have to say Stolen Focus by Johann Hari

228
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:45,520
Speaker 2: it put words around everything I knew was true it

229
00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:51,200
Speaker 2: it basically it's about technology addiction and what would happen

230
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 2: if we unplugged Without it being guilt. I didn't feel

231
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,240
Speaker 2: guilty necessarily reading it, but this idea that when I

232
00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:02,400
Speaker 2: pick up my phone, it is not the five seconds

233
00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:06,360
Speaker 2: i'm checking it that's as dangerous as the twenty minutes

234
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:07,960
Speaker 2: it will take me to get back into the task.

235
00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:14,640
Speaker 2: I found that really true, and there were some strategies

236
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 2: that I found, which is and this is again about

237
00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:20,960
Speaker 2: getting into the zone. I've got to have my phone

238
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,800
Speaker 2: in a completely different room because the temptation is just

239
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:31,960
Speaker 2: too high, and it's it's unintentional time, like and in

240
00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,359
Speaker 2: saying that my screen time is appalling and I'm revolted

241
00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,440
Speaker 2: by it. But my twin sister has a she has

242
00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,680
Speaker 2: a phone prison that she'll put it in the prison

243
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:45,280
Speaker 2: and like it's locked, and it's actually really annoying because

244
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:50,280
Speaker 2: sometimes I desperately need her, but it's in there and

245
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:52,440
Speaker 2: that's the only way she can get kind of control.

246
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,400
Speaker 2: But I liked it because I think focus is kind

247
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:02,800
Speaker 2: of the elixir of life. Like, isn't focus everything? I mean,

248
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:08,480
Speaker 2: what is an unfocused life? Is not a life well lived.

249
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,760
Speaker 2: That's something that we can't take for granted, and to

250
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:15,160
Speaker 2: have that stolen from us all the time by useless

251
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:19,960
Speaker 2: transactional apps is a tragedy. So I found that I

252
00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,640
Speaker 2: found it helpful, and I also thought it just made

253
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,840
Speaker 2: me a lot more aware of the ways in which

254
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:27,400
Speaker 2: I can take back a bit of control.

255
00:16:28,200 --> 00:16:31,480
Speaker 1: My almost final question, if I gifted you applique to

256
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 1: put on your wall, so something that you'd like to

257
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,960
Speaker 1: be constantly reminded of what would you want it to say?

258
00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 2: Again, I don't know if this is the most articulate

259
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,960
Speaker 2: way of putting it, but something about how life begins

260
00:16:46,040 --> 00:16:49,960
Speaker 2: on the other side of discomfort, or life begins outside

261
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:54,160
Speaker 2: your comfort zone, however however you phrase it. I just

262
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,440
Speaker 2: think the best things that have ever happened have made

263
00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:04,199
Speaker 2: me really uncomfortable, and when I teeter close to that,

264
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,440
Speaker 2: I kind of go, oh, you could fail pretty massively

265
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:12,960
Speaker 2: right now. But there's a determination that is so satisfying.

266
00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:18,119
Speaker 2: And I see people who are really clever and so

267
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,400
Speaker 2: so good at what they do, and that discomfort scares

268
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,800
Speaker 2: them off taking risks, and I think that that's really sad.

269
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:28,560
Speaker 2: I think that that's the thing that stops a lot

270
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:31,320
Speaker 2: of us, is that we hate discomfort and we don't

271
00:17:31,359 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 2: think that maybe it will stop being uncomfortable one day.

272
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:39,800
Speaker 2: And it also leads to you saying yes to more things.

273
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,960
Speaker 2: So I'm a very no person. I think that I

274
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,000
Speaker 2: can be quite quite shy, but I've had to intentionally

275
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:49,840
Speaker 2: flip that, and for the last at least seven or

276
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,520
Speaker 2: eight years, it's been yes to just about everything, because

277
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,560
Speaker 2: you know, that's where that's where the really good stuff happens.

278
00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: I love that. Finally, Jesse, for people, people that want

279
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,040
Speaker 1: to connect with you, consume more of what you're putting

280
00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:05,800
Speaker 1: out into the world. What's the best way for people

281
00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: to do that?

282
00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:14,680
Speaker 2: Probably on Instagram. I'm Jesse Stephens ninety on Instagram. I'm

283
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,080
Speaker 2: very about at Twitter. I just am mostly watching other

284
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 2: people on their sort of post anything really, and then

285
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:25,359
Speaker 2: otherwise I'm on mum Mar out Loud that's five days

286
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:29,719
Speaker 2: a week. The canceled a podcast I do with my

287
00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,919
Speaker 2: twin sister, and I've got some books. So I've got

288
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:39,720
Speaker 2: Heartsick that came out in twenty twenty t one maybe,

289
00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 2: and then I've got another one I've just written, so

290
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:43,840
Speaker 2: keep an eye out for that.

291
00:18:44,160 --> 00:18:45,680
Speaker 1: When's that one coming out? Jesse?

292
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 2: It is coming out, I think in August or November.

293
00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:52,000
Speaker 2: So I'm about to get the edits back and have

294
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,800
Speaker 2: a hell of a time. But it's fiction, so it's

295
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:57,560
Speaker 2: very different to what I've done in the past.

296
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,000
Speaker 1: I can't wait to read it. Loved Heart Sick, so

297
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to that. Thank you. Thank you so

298
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,040
Speaker 1: much for sharing part of your day with me by

299
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 1: listening to How I Live. If you're keen for more,

300
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,520
Speaker 1: tips on how to work better and live better. Connect

301
00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,919
Speaker 1: with me on LinkedIn or Instagram to search for Amantha Imba.

302
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:23,800
Speaker 1: How I Live was recorded on the traditional land of

303
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,840
Speaker 1: the Warrangery people, part of the cool And Nation. I'm

304
00:19:26,880 --> 00:19:29,080
Speaker 1: so grateful for being able to work and live on

305
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,440
Speaker 1: this beautiful land, and i want to pay my respects

306
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:35,040
Speaker 1: to Elder's past, present and emerging. How I Live is

307
00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,399
Speaker 1: produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios.

308
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,520
Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan and sound

309
00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:43,480
Speaker 1: engineering was done by Martin Imba.