WEBVTT - Todd Woodbridge (Part I): Records, recollections, and a legacy beyond tennis 0:00:02.040 --> 0:00:05.000 Hi everyone, and welcome to another episode of the Sitdown. 0:00:05.240 --> 0:00:08.440 I'm Matrolope, a writer and editor for oz open dot com, and. 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.000 I'm vig Christie, managing editor for Australian tennis magazine VIV. 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:14.400 Fantastic to have you back in the studio. I've missed you. 0:00:14.440 --> 0:00:15.560 How was Roland Garross? 0:00:15.640 --> 0:00:18.279 Yeah, Matt, it was amazing. I hadn't been to a 0:00:18.360 --> 0:00:21.759 Paris in ten years and seeing clay court tennis it's 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:25.439 something quite magical. But speaking of special while I was 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:29.880 flying to Paris, you had a fantastic interview with Todd Woodbridge. Yeah. 0:00:30.040 --> 0:00:32.319 Chatting to Todd was great. I was joined by Vig 0:00:32.360 --> 0:00:35.560 Rudnikoff from our production team and it was funny. Todd 0:00:35.680 --> 0:00:37.479 kind of said, I've been waiting for may invite to 0:00:37.520 --> 0:00:39.479 the Sitdown because we've been going for two years, but 0:00:39.840 --> 0:00:41.840 he's always been on our list to someone we've wanted 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:44.440 to talk to. An absolute legend of the game, one 0:00:44.440 --> 0:00:47.000 of the greatest doubles players of all time, twenty two 0:00:47.000 --> 0:00:50.040 major doubles titles, nine of those coming at Wimbledon. He's 0:00:50.040 --> 0:00:52.400 also an Olympic gold medalist and he's now gone on 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.720 to build an amazing media career and stays in commentary now. 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:58.440 So yeah, this was a chance for us to chat 0:00:58.440 --> 0:01:01.000 to Todd about the very beginning he got connected to 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:02.800 tennis and how it remains such a part of his 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:03.440 life today. 0:01:03.960 --> 0:01:06.479 And this is such an in depth chat that it's 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:09.880 actually broken into two parts, so stay tuned for part 0:01:10.040 --> 0:01:13.160 two when Todd talks about his record breaking Wimbledon career. 0:01:13.240 --> 0:01:15.720 But for now, let's hear about Todd's start in the sport. 0:01:18.280 --> 0:01:20.399 Todd Woodbridge, thank you very much for joining us on 0:01:20.440 --> 0:01:21.920 the sit Down Podcast. It's good to see you. 0:01:22.040 --> 0:01:23.360 Nice to have been invited. 0:01:23.400 --> 0:01:28.080 Finally, we just celebrated our two year anniversary in our 0:01:28.080 --> 0:01:30.040 one hundredth episode, but you were always on our plans 0:01:30.040 --> 0:01:31.399 to get you on, so thank you for joining us. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:33.880 It's great to be you guys are doing awesome. It's 0:01:33.880 --> 0:01:34.760 fun I watch. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.240 Thank You and tell us about how all began and 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.800 how you got your start in tennis. 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:42.360 How it all began, I mean that's all I remember, 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:46.440 to be honest. You know, my mum played tennis three 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:51.120 days week competition Tuesday, Thursday, Saturdays, and I was the 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:54.280 mistake child. So I had two older brothers they had 0:01:54.280 --> 0:01:57.000 already up and left the house and so I used 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.760 to be taking along in the pram and then when 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.880 I could walk, I'd hang on the fan and all 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:02.480 I want to do is get on the court and play. 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.120 So I had my first tennis lesson at four, I 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:08.800 played my first tournament at six. I played adult comp 0:02:09.040 --> 0:02:14.320 at ten and I played well. I traveled my first 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.920 trip overseas in juniors at eleven. It goes back a 0:02:18.919 --> 0:02:19.560 long way. 0:02:20.080 --> 0:02:22.880 And what about it made you want to stick to tennis. 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:26.200 I was infatuated by it. I just loved hitting a ball, 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:29.720 counting when you learn to count basically how many times 0:02:29.720 --> 0:02:32.400 I could hit? Could I beat the wall? And I 0:02:32.480 --> 0:02:34.960 used to played Illoria Tennis Club in Sydney and there 0:02:35.000 --> 0:02:37.040 was a brick wall and I would be out there 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.960 hitting away, and everybody that was ever at that club 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:42.600 knew about this little kid that was just their hitting. 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:46.160 And I used to go there. Used to be a 0:02:46.200 --> 0:02:48.519 little shared at the back of every court at the club. 0:02:48.560 --> 0:02:51.799 I think there were six courts in the main row, 0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:54.400 twelve in total, and I'd go from shed to shed 0:02:54.440 --> 0:02:55.679 to shard to see if they would give me a 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:57.480 hit and let me on the court. So I was 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.480 annoying persistently. 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:03.840 I still, at what point in your journey on development 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:06.400 did you realize you were good enough to become a pro, Like, 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:07.919 how viable was that for you? 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.920 And at what age I would have said at seven 0:03:11.000 --> 0:03:14.640 eight I wanted to be a PROA did it? I 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:17.240 think I could happen? I don't know, but I used 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:21.480 to watch tennis all the time. I'd race home from school, 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:24.320 and in those days you had the summer of tennis 0:03:24.360 --> 0:03:28.080 that used to be every state Open would be on 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.440 and they'd travel around the country for like ten weeks. 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:32.639 It seemed like the better be men or women. I'd 0:03:33.040 --> 0:03:35.200 watch as much as I possibly could. I'd then run 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:37.840 out to the court and go practice. I suppose by 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:42.400 ten I think I won my first national doubles title 0:03:42.520 --> 0:03:46.240 in Melbourne, and so I think I won three twelves, 0:03:46.240 --> 0:03:49.120 two fourteen's, two sixteens, three eighteens. I didn't lose a 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:50.280 national doubles. 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:52.840 Title, Okay, So you reckon it was around like age eleven, 0:03:52.840 --> 0:03:54.320 twelve nationals. 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:56.320 You were like, this could be, this could be something 0:03:56.360 --> 0:03:59.040 that I'll do. And then then by the time I 0:03:59.200 --> 0:04:05.680 was twelve, I played the US Hard Courts Junior Championships, 0:04:06.520 --> 0:04:11.320 lost to Michael Chang who was about ten, and so 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.440 it really started then. I mean that's when you first 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.160 came across great names in tennis. Chang went on to 0:04:16.200 --> 0:04:19.480 win the French as a teenager. I played Jim Curry 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:22.560 for the first time at thirteen. Oh wow, that was 0:04:22.560 --> 0:04:25.599 an ear. All these guys became pro David Wheaton was there, 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:29.320 Samples was hanging around from outside, you know, the Jason 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.280 Stoltenberg's and Richard Fromberg who were all doing that. And 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:36.520 so I guess maybe it was more it wasn't as easy, 0:04:36.640 --> 0:04:39.839 but maybe it was easier if you were getting the 0:04:39.839 --> 0:04:44.080 opportunity which I got, okay, and good competition really young. 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:46.080 I guess maybe not being awed by them. 0:04:46.520 --> 0:04:48.120 Yeah, you know that was one of the key things 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:51.120 about growing up in Australia at the time is that 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:58.600 tennis was such a significant social sport, both that everybody 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.520 played competition. Ten clubs were so big, so thriving, but 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:04.799 there was minimal things to do. You've got to remember 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:09.120 on a Saturday morning, shops would close at midday, nothing 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.520 was open, so you went to sport in the afternoon 0:05:11.640 --> 0:05:14.880 Sundays that's all your your families did. Whatever sport you chose, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.680 and so that was really integral to being a tennis player. 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.600 But if there was so much depth, so as a 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.800 young player coming up, you had all these different levels 0:05:24.839 --> 0:05:27.040 that you could compete at very quickly. And if as 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:30.120 you improved quickly, as I said, I played adult compa ten, 0:05:30.240 --> 0:05:32.719 they let me go into that and that makes you 0:05:32.760 --> 0:05:37.120 better so quickly, and you had very good, solid amateur players. 0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.880 The depth was far greater. And people say, oh, it's 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:43.600 not like the old days in Australian in terns. Nothing is. 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:47.680 Every sport has changed dramatically, including ours, and that's a 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.880 challenge about developing new players. 0:05:50.080 --> 0:05:52.159 Yeah, and so many things to as you said, to 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.560 divert attention now, like yeah, compared to what used to 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:56.279 happen on the weekend. 0:05:56.440 --> 0:06:00.320 Yeah, And obviously talking about your pro career now innineteen 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:04.600 ninety you formed your iconic partnership with Mark Woodford and 0:06:04.839 --> 0:06:06.040 just going to read this because I don't want to 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:08.160 get any of these starts wrong, but you would go 0:06:08.279 --> 0:06:12.560 on to win sixty one ATP titles, including eleven Grand Slams, 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:16.360 plus gold at the nineteen ninety six Atlanta Olympics and 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:20.200 silver at Sydney two thousand How did this partnership start 0:06:20.240 --> 0:06:22.360 and why do you think you jelled so well? 0:06:22.520 --> 0:06:25.360 Well? Both, that's a big story. I'll do it as 0:06:25.400 --> 0:06:29.040 quick as I can. I was looking for someone I 0:06:29.080 --> 0:06:31.960 thought I could win some majors with Mark had won 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.440 a major with John McEnroe. Macinoe told him that he 0:06:35.480 --> 0:06:38.200 wasn't going to be playing anymore seriously, he should look 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:40.760 for someone. There was this young Aussie kid who was 0:06:40.760 --> 0:06:42.240 sort of can I play? Can I play with you? 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:45.640 And I felt like I needed someone with a little 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:47.320 more experience. He had it, he knew what it was 0:06:47.440 --> 0:06:50.680 like to win a major. He said, yes, we trialed. 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.400 We played well together. Ironically, we first couple of tornaments 0:06:53.440 --> 0:06:56.039 we played. I played on the backhand court. He played 0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:58.560 the forehand because that's where he played with McEnroe, And 0:06:59.320 --> 0:07:01.800 after quite a lot of high backend returns that I 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:03.359 couldn't make, I said, do you mind if we switch? 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:06.800 And we did switch them. From there, we had this 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:08.880 massive success, but very quickly. 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:10.840 What was the first tournament. 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.440 The first tournament I think we played was Wembley Indoors 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.840 in the UK. That was a one off opportunity. We 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:19.440 played quite well, maybe made Sammy's something like that, and 0:07:19.480 --> 0:07:23.640 then we started a season in Australia in nineteen ninety 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:28.560 and started well made Sammy's with the Shane Open. We 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:34.200 won our first tournament in Brussels and then we won 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:36.840 in Copenhagen and then that was the start of winning 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:37.640 a lot of events. 0:07:38.320 --> 0:07:40.440 Well you alluded to that, so yeah, ten Wimbledon finals. 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.480 So you finished playing with Mark in two thousand and 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.760 then pretty quickly switched to a really successful partnership with 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.600 Jonus Bjorkmann and that one knew more Grand Slam titles. 0:07:50.200 --> 0:07:52.360 Well give you yeah, well it was another five with him. 0:07:52.400 --> 0:07:54.560 I think it was five with him, three Wimbledon's in 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.440 a row. Yeah, So what was it like converting, like 0:07:57.560 --> 0:07:58.600 switching to playing with him? 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:01.360 And like it was a great change, And I don't 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.960 mean that in any negative way. Yonis probably brought more 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:07.480 personality out of me. He's he's the part of the 0:08:07.520 --> 0:08:11.440 reason that I have transitioned into glossy game show host 0:08:11.880 --> 0:08:18.200 because I was very very conservative, very straight, very strict, 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:21.240 very hard on myself, tuck my shirt in, you know, 0:08:21.600 --> 0:08:25.280 all sorts of like just an era. And he was 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:32.040 kind of loose, relaxed, very competitive, but had fun being 0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:35.120 competitive and he go loosen up, Teddy, loosen up. Come on, man, 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:40.520 it's not that bad. And I'm oh to him. I 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.679 liked the change. You know, like ten years we play 0:08:43.720 --> 0:08:45.600 with Mark, so there's always going to be a changing 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:49.559 moment and he was that moment for me. Like with personality, 0:08:50.360 --> 0:08:52.400 he allowed me to be like I used to laugh 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:54.120 a lot and have fun off the court, but not 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:56.680 on it, and he brought me the understanding I've got 0:08:56.720 --> 0:08:59.640 a balance a little bit better. And now that was 0:09:00.320 --> 0:09:03.640 a part of, you know, a friendship that's maintained is 0:09:03.679 --> 0:09:07.320 that he kind of allowed me to untuck my shirt 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.360 and do little dancers who on the Aussie Open, I'm 0:09:10.360 --> 0:09:12.760 out there doing some weird dance. I'd never have done 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:15.120 that in my life, and now I do it nightly. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:17.319 Love that. 0:09:19.200 --> 0:09:21.120 So I guess it's been a while since you played doubles. 0:09:21.160 --> 0:09:22.839 What do you do You watch much doubles now? 0:09:22.920 --> 0:09:24.080 Yeah? I do. 0:09:24.080 --> 0:09:25.320 Do you think of the standard of it now? 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:30.680 It's different? There is some excellent doubles players out there. 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.800 I love commentating doubles at Wimbled and in particular I 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.760 still think that the grass courts bring out the nuance 0:09:36.920 --> 0:09:39.240 a little more than some of the other surfaces, the 0:09:39.800 --> 0:09:43.800 lobs and creating openings and using lines and all things 0:09:43.800 --> 0:09:47.720 that are effective tactically in doubles. So I've caught some 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:50.559 really good matches the last five six years. I have 0:09:50.679 --> 0:09:54.760 been so entertaining. You know, I kind of watch it 0:09:54.800 --> 0:09:57.560 because I want to see what I still sit there 0:09:57.640 --> 0:10:00.920 in my mind playing the shots. That's what I feel 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.280 like I'm doing, and I'm commentating. She'll be hitting it here, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.839 there's a space, use it, Yeah, that type of and 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:11.120 so I actually that's why I actually like commentating. I 0:10:11.160 --> 0:10:14.880 actually put myself in the shoes of the player, going Okay, 0:10:14.920 --> 0:10:16.600 what can I do here? What should they do here? 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:21.480 How do they unravel this chess match between their opponent? 0:10:21.880 --> 0:10:25.080 And that keeps me interested and I do as a 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:28.559 commentator hope that also the person sitting at home gets 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:32.800 that feeling of now they're watching something a little differently 0:10:33.280 --> 0:10:37.120 and they're looking ahead to what might be able to happen. Aha, 0:10:37.160 --> 0:10:40.280 there's that moment that we were talking about, and that 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:43.400 could be the pivotal point of change in this match. 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:46.000 That's the fun part about still being in it. And 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:47.480 when I get a match like that, you can tell 0:10:47.520 --> 0:10:48.280 you get quite excited. 0:10:48.360 --> 0:10:52.199 Yeah, and after that you obviously reached your singles career 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:55.520 best ranking of number nineteen, Like, how did you feel 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.120 after that achievement? And I know, obviously as a doubles 0:10:59.120 --> 0:11:02.439 and singles player top twenty in both, it's quite challenging 0:11:02.480 --> 0:11:02.840 as well. 0:11:03.000 --> 0:11:05.720 Yeah, Well, we loved playing and I say we like 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:07.800 Mark Woodford and I both did the same. We both 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:10.040 had nineteen in a ranking, made a Semis Australia home. 0:11:10.120 --> 0:11:15.840 We loved playing tennis and winning. And I know, could 0:11:16.080 --> 0:11:19.840 we or I have done better taking just a singles 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.000 route and not playing doubles, Probably not. I think we 0:11:22.000 --> 0:11:25.640 would put more pressure on everything. I liked the fact 0:11:25.679 --> 0:11:27.600 that if you had a bad week in singles, you 0:11:27.679 --> 0:11:30.120 still were out playing matches, you still had some confidence, 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:32.520 You're still putting yourself under pressure. I think a lot 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.640 of players that sit in a mid ranking in tennis 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:37.360 should do more of that. You know, you can't if 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:39.440 you're in the top ten, but you can if you're 0:11:39.520 --> 0:11:42.640 sitting fifty to sixty. And that's sort of how I 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.120 looked at that little period as well. There's a few 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:49.480 things that hindered me. One was Serve and growing up 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:52.480 in the crossover of eras at the particular time. If 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:55.560 you go back, like we talk about the change of 0:11:55.559 --> 0:12:00.960 wooden rackets to aluminium to graphite serving with out I 0:12:01.040 --> 0:12:03.440 served watching the likes of John Nucom and all these 0:12:03.480 --> 0:12:08.679 classic Aussies. But biomechanically those serves put pressure on your 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:14.160 arm and your shoulders and serving change, and so I 0:12:14.559 --> 0:12:17.040 look very different from the beginning of a career to 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.439 the end. All of those types of things you look 0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:20.480 back on and go, oh, I wish you could have 0:12:20.480 --> 0:12:23.880 had that moment, but you didn't have video to watch 0:12:23.920 --> 0:12:24.880 back when I started. 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:28.040 Another single success you had was making the Canadian Open 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:32.000 finals because a Master's final, that's incredible. And also you 0:12:32.040 --> 0:12:34.240 won to ATP titles as well, and that was all 0:12:34.320 --> 0:12:37.840 kind of happening in the mid mid nine ages. Yeah, 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:40.000 if you would reflect on your single s career, where 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:41.600 do you think like the season or the period was 0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:43.400 that you were at your peak. 0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:49.200 Well, we played in an era where surface was really 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:54.040 important to your ranking, and there were significant differences with surfaces, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:56.320 and I think that's where the game has really changed 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:58.559 the most right now is I feel like most of 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:02.040 surfaces play very neutral and same speed, same bounce, high 0:13:02.800 --> 0:13:05.840 getting the same match that you watched nearly on every surface. 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:08.160 But if I take you back to those years, we 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:12.240 played indoors on supreme that's a rubberized matt surface where 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.880 the ball used to skid through. You would get a 0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:18.800 longest rally of seven to eight shots if you were lucky. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.040 So you know, it was a lot of serve block returning, 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:26.120 getting in building pressure. Then you had your clay court run, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.959 but you also had you had your hard court runs. 0:13:28.960 --> 0:13:33.400 Now we had an Asian swing in pre like clay 0:13:33.480 --> 0:13:37.280 used to cross over in spring, so your March April 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:44.760 mays and that was important for me. Places like Tokyo Soul, Singapore, 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:48.680 they were pretty fast hard courts. They were very effective 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:52.040 to my game style. I used to like clay, but 0:13:52.080 --> 0:13:53.920 it took me eight weeks to play well on it 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.360 and then it was over. And I'm not joking. I 0:13:57.400 --> 0:13:59.880 loved clay. I loved maneuvering the ball, but I had 0:13:59.920 --> 0:14:01.960 to learned to get different flight and it would take 0:14:02.000 --> 0:14:05.320 time and patience to change your mindset to be to 0:14:05.360 --> 0:14:07.680 wait a little bit more, and then of course you 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:12.080 go us run great, but then go back into the 0:14:12.080 --> 0:14:15.280 indoor season. Really tough for me because again you came 0:14:15.360 --> 0:14:19.200 up against big, serving guys that had perfect conditions. I 0:14:19.360 --> 0:14:22.520 was a good, tough condition player. Put me in wind, 0:14:23.080 --> 0:14:25.720 take away elements of guys that couldn't bomb it and 0:14:25.720 --> 0:14:28.200 they had to shape the ball. I could outskill them. 0:14:29.400 --> 0:14:32.000 And so that was that period where we had all 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:36.720 of the variant in surfaces and schedule. So you put 0:14:36.760 --> 0:14:38.960 a bit of pressure on you about your schedule. You 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:40.680 had to play well in these little blocks. If you 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:43.520 didn't or you were struggling to maintain. But then if 0:14:43.560 --> 0:14:46.360 you've got a really good run going, you were set 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:49.080 for the next twelve months. And you got to remember 0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:53.280 we didn't have people that excelled in both spaces, like 0:14:53.360 --> 0:14:55.520 it was so tough to do well on clay and 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:59.040 then do well on grass. Pete struggled with that, right, 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:03.440 Gouga struggled to make the transition to grass. Great draw 0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:06.000 if you've got googa at Wimbledon, that type of thing 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:08.920 there was. There were moments where you saw draws at 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:11.760 Roland Gaross. They probably looked at me a whole beauty. 0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.280 But then come on grass and that excellent clay couarders 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:18.560 and they'd already packed their bags, they already to leave 0:15:18.600 --> 0:15:22.240 they just you could outdo them quickly a different time, 0:15:23.320 --> 0:15:27.760 and so you had those those different abilities to play well. 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:29.920 And that was that period for me. And as things 0:15:29.920 --> 0:15:32.440 started to neutralize a little bit about a bit more, 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:36.480 it got harder to maintain. And plus I was getting older. 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.920 I get to thirty twenty eighteen nine thirty, so I 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:43.280 have a family and know all your perspectives change. But 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:48.120 also this is a really important one. People forget that 0:15:48.320 --> 0:15:51.760 an athlete is running their own small business, and. 0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:53.760 Well a tennis player specifically, because a lot of. 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.320 Yeah, and in my mindset was I got to twenty seven, 0:15:57.360 --> 0:15:59.440 twenty eight, my rankings started to drop twenty nine. What 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.200 am I going to do? I had to take six 0:16:01.280 --> 0:16:04.800 months off and focus on playing some challenges. I did 0:16:04.840 --> 0:16:06.840 it a couple of times, got my ranking back towards 0:16:06.880 --> 0:16:10.360 one hundred. But then I'd play regular tour Masters series. 0:16:10.640 --> 0:16:12.880 I'm in the Semis finals and winning them. I can't 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:15.760 get to qualities for the next week, right, Well, you 0:16:15.760 --> 0:16:18.760 mean playing doubles, which playing on the weekends, I couldn't 0:16:18.760 --> 0:16:21.600 get there. So I had to make, effectively a business 0:16:21.640 --> 0:16:25.640 decision that cut my singles short. I can make six seven, 0:16:25.720 --> 0:16:30.560 eight hundred thousand dollars over here by winning majors doing this, 0:16:30.880 --> 0:16:33.560 or I give up that and I spend one hundred 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:38.760 I go backwards to get my singles back. I made 0:16:38.760 --> 0:16:42.840 the decision to run my small business efficiently, which gave 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:46.520 me the chance to really, I guess, create a niche 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:50.040 for what I was doing with doubles. But I don't 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.840 think people really look at it like that. And you 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:59.080 can't run a negatively cash flow business, can you? And 0:16:59.120 --> 0:17:01.960 that unfortunately people, Art's just a sport. No, it's not. 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.919 It's your livelihood. You're setting yourself up. You've got commitments, 0:17:05.920 --> 0:17:08.919 you've got bills like everyone else, and we look at 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.159 the top guys. That's a different story. But even in 0:17:12.320 --> 0:17:14.400 what I was doing and what I was in the 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:17.440 top twenty of prize money, I think the time I 0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.000 retired but still had to think that way. 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:23.919 Yeah, yeah, you're not sad, like, no, I could have 0:17:23.920 --> 0:17:24.199 done more. 0:17:24.200 --> 0:17:28.040 Inside, you know, there's weeks and moments you think I 0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:31.280 could have done better, But overall I couldn't have given more. 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.040 I had nothing left to give. And that's when you 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:38.960 retire too. Because I retired thirty four, stool was playing 0:17:39.000 --> 0:17:42.400 quite well. I could have gone on and probably straining 0:17:42.400 --> 0:17:45.200 partner wise, but I could have played and won more. 0:17:45.720 --> 0:17:48.040 But at the same time it was hard. I go 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.280 out and practice never miss a ball, like honestly it 0:17:51.280 --> 0:17:54.280 wouldn't miss a ball, but you need to keep practicing 0:17:54.280 --> 0:17:55.960 for another two hours and going, oh god, this is 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:59.920 boring because you've mastered your skill set and it's too 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:03.760 to change everything and you have to then think about 0:18:03.880 --> 0:18:06.320 what's next. And what's next was important too. 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:08.960 Yes, one last one on your singles, because I think 0:18:08.960 --> 0:18:11.520 we should acknowledge that one of your singles titles that 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:13.879 you won was in Adelaide, So winning on home soil 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.040 must have been particularly special. I'm sure, like the very highlight. 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:20.840 Absolutely it was an Adelaide, Yeah it was. It was 0:18:21.240 --> 0:18:24.679 called Australian Hardcourt Championships. There's a lot of our events 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:28.520 in Australia really have several titles to them to South 0:18:28.520 --> 0:18:32.640 Australian Open, Australian Hardcourt Championship that they used to move round, right, 0:18:33.840 --> 0:18:42.200 And I am very romantic about sport and titles and 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.760 moments and people and places that are important to it. 0:18:46.200 --> 0:18:49.199 And so having grown up in Australia with such a 0:18:49.320 --> 0:18:52.119 rich history, to win that title was important to me. 0:18:52.560 --> 0:18:54.840 You might call an ATP two fifty or whatever it 0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:58.200 was at the time, but winning that was a very 0:18:58.200 --> 0:19:01.560 important part of what I old Australian tennis histy is about, 0:19:01.920 --> 0:19:04.600 and that kind of was a real driver for me. 0:19:04.600 --> 0:19:07.399 I have this real passion for that type of for 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.680 that in a sport, I really and I when I 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:14.560 have been in my roles, whether it be development or now, 0:19:14.560 --> 0:19:17.240 when I'm talking to younger players and mentoring whatever, try 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:20.399 to remind them why are you here, what are you 0:19:20.480 --> 0:19:23.440 doing this for? Are you doing it just for money 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:26.159 or are you doing it because you're going to get 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:27.919 the chance to play on the center court at Womenham 0:19:27.920 --> 0:19:31.640 where Rod Labor played, or where you know Pete Samprist 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.400 did stuff with the epic Macenroe Borg matches, Arthur ash 0:19:35.400 --> 0:19:40.600 beating Jimmy Connors, or Andy Roddick losing sixteen fourteen in 0:19:40.640 --> 0:19:43.600 the fifth feeder. Like I think about all those things, 0:19:43.720 --> 0:19:47.200 they are the things that make my sport so incredibly special, 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:50.280 and I think it's so important to drive those messages 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.200 home to young players that are playing. I want passion 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:58.520 from our players that really understand how they got here 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.520 and why they're here. And then they have a responsibility 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:04.440 to pass that on. 0:20:05.400 --> 0:20:07.120 I love that and that's kind of Billy Jinking talks 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:09.280 about that. Know your history, know what's come before you, 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.359 it makes more significant what comes now. Hookie school. She 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.119 talks about that like it's a version of that. 0:20:14.320 --> 0:20:14.560 Yeah. 0:20:14.640 --> 0:20:14.880 Yeah. 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.399 And if I suppose a player or a person like 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.120 myself and my peer group doesn't do it, who does 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:24.000 it next? It will be lost. So kind of keep 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:24.560 driving it. 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:26.560 We'll get them on the podcast and talk to them 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:28.960 about history. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:31.080 We can do a tennis sipping point in history and 0:20:31.800 --> 0:20:35.320 we might have to edit a bit well. 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:38.679 Speaking of Australian history in a way. You played an 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.360