1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: We all have rules that kind of govern how we 2 00:00:03,000 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: spend our time, and some of this is internalized as 3 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: a child or as a young adult. Maybe some of 4 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: that serves you still there could be something that might 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:13,039 Speaker 1: serve you better. 6 00:00:13,240 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 2: Today we are diving into part two of my chat 7 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:20,480 Speaker 2: with New York Times best selling author Chris Gilibo. In 8 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 2: this episode, Chris shares how to break free of the 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:28,120 Speaker 2: unnecessary subconscious rules that often waste your time and his 10 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 2: trick to figuring out what is and isn't a valuable 11 00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 2: use of your time. Oh and by the way, if 12 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,560 Speaker 2: you missed part one of this chat, then you might 13 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: want to check out your feed in How I Work 14 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,760 Speaker 2: and go listen to part one first. 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: Like, I was pretty good at the productivity game. At 16 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 1: a certain point, I just realized, like, ultimately, I think 17 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 1: I'm getting better at doing the wrong things. The way 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: that my life is going to be disrupted is much 19 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: more likely because I fail to take action. The far 20 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 1: greater problem is my own resistance. The way that I 21 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: address that is like. 22 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, 23 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 3: and strategies. 24 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 2: For optimizing your date. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 2: what have you found, because I imagine you know, you've 26 00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,480 Speaker 2: been doing lots of publicity for the book, which practices 27 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 2: seem to have resonated with the most amount of people. 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 1: One that people really like. I have been doing a 29 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 1: lot of events here in the States, have been in 30 00:01:34,959 --> 00:01:37,960 Speaker 1: about ten cities so far. I'm doing a couple of 31 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:40,959 Speaker 1: stops in Canada in a couple of weeks, hopefully beyond 32 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 1: North America as well at some point. One of the 33 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,120 Speaker 1: things people respond to a lot is this idea of 34 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: the eighth day of the week. And so it's it's 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 1: like imagining you have an extra day every week, and 36 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,360 Speaker 1: what does that look like? And how would you choose 37 00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: to spend this day which is a recurring day. And 38 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 1: so that's the big difference from thinking about like what 39 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 1: is your ideal perfect day. That's kind of a classic 40 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,560 Speaker 1: like thought exercise, and it can be helpful, but it's 41 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,000 Speaker 1: also maybe there's some pressure involved with that. It's like 42 00:02:11,040 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: my perfect day, like my one perfect day, you know, 43 00:02:14,720 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 1: And if you think about what if I had an 44 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: extra day that came around fifty two times a year, 45 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 1: like how would I spend that? And so that's something 46 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:23,919 Speaker 1: that's additive. You could like, there's a lot you could 47 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: do if you had this extra time that came around 48 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: every week. You could write a book, you could learn 49 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 1: a language, you could learn all kinds of other skills. 50 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: And so people have found that to be kind of interesting. 51 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: As they think about like freeing up their time, they're 52 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,200 Speaker 1: also thinking about how would I choose to spend it, 53 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,600 Speaker 1: and so those two things can kind of work together. Well, 54 00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:43,920 Speaker 1: I'm sure there's some others. That's the first one that 55 00:02:43,960 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: comes to mind. 56 00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I liked a con't rid of the terminology used, 57 00:02:48,720 --> 00:02:52,160 Speaker 2: but helping people to unpack what are the assumptions that 58 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: they have around the time. I'm trying to remember the 59 00:02:56,880 --> 00:03:00,440 Speaker 2: language that you used around that and really challenge those 60 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: assumptions around oh we do this then, or this is 61 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 2: how we spend our time at this point in time. 62 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:10,120 Speaker 2: Tell me more about that and help me with the 63 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 2: remember the language that you use, because I really liked 64 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:14,840 Speaker 2: that thinking about what are the assumptions that I'm off 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:15,559 Speaker 2: for writing. 66 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 1: By for sure? Yeah, I think I was writing about 67 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: time rules. Yes, this notion of like we all have 68 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,600 Speaker 1: rules that kind of govern how we spend our time, 69 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,040 Speaker 1: and some of this is internalized, like as a child 70 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: or as a young adult. In some of our primary relationships, 71 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 1: this is like how we spend our time, and this 72 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 1: is how things work, and this is what time that 73 00:03:34,920 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 1: meal times are at this time, you know, based on 74 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: when you are a kid typically, and this is how 75 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 1: long it's acceptable to go before you call someone back 76 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: or message them back. And you know, there are many others, 77 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 1: but basically, like how we kind of go about our 78 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: day and spend our time. Most of us have not 79 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,840 Speaker 1: actually thought about that very intentionally. It's not something that's 80 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 1: ever really brought up about, like, Okay, you're living your 81 00:03:57,720 --> 00:04:00,120 Speaker 1: life this way because this is what you learned, this 82 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:02,960 Speaker 1: is what your parents did. Maybe some of that serves 83 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: you still, but maybe you know, you're a different person, 84 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:10,040 Speaker 1: it's a different time, it's a different generation xxx, Like 85 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 1: there could be something that might serve you better, So 86 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 1: it's helpful to maybe consider, like what are the time 87 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:20,039 Speaker 1: rules that govern my life and what might be better, 88 00:04:20,240 --> 00:04:22,840 Speaker 1: you know for me. And these can kind of coincide with, 89 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,960 Speaker 1: you know, other life hacks or other things that you 90 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: do just to try to, you know, have a better life. 91 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 1: Like I'm looking at my phone for an hour before bed. 92 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: Maybe I should try not doing that, you know, or 93 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 1: you know, I have this belief that I we were 94 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:42,160 Speaker 1: talking about email, that I must respond to every person 95 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:44,000 Speaker 1: you know, the same day, or I must respond to 96 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:47,000 Speaker 1: them at all. Well maybe that's the case, but maybe 97 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:49,360 Speaker 1: maybe not, you know, there could be something else. So 98 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: I think it's very freeing. It can be very freeing 99 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: for people once they understand that a lot of how 100 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: they spend their time is governed by these kind of 101 00:04:57,520 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: assumptions that are kind of baked in, and they can 102 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 1: go and perhaps rewrite some of those or create something 103 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: that serves them better. 104 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: What are some of your time rules or time assumptions 105 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 2: that you have that you've crushed. You're questioned, crushed is 106 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: a bit aggressive, Let's go questioned. 107 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: Questioned, I mean I like crush depending on the context. 108 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 1: So I'm sure you've been familiar with this for a while, 109 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,120 Speaker 1: but I hadn't really known a lot about a lot 110 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: of this research about the limited amount of cognitive attention 111 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,720 Speaker 1: that we have each day and it's only a few hours. 112 00:05:31,279 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: And I've also found that shifting a little bit as 113 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,279 Speaker 1: I get older. I do feel like maybe this is 114 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: this could be somewhat perception, but I do feel like 115 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: I used to be able to process or focus a 116 00:05:40,440 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: lot more. And so whether that's my perception or reality, 117 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 1: I do feel that focus is more limited for me 118 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: than it used to be ten years or twenty years ago. 119 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 1: And so whatever the case is, I need to be 120 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,040 Speaker 1: mindful of that. So this idea that we only have 121 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: maybe three hours a day on average of actual cognitive attention, 122 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:04,279 Speaker 1: and it's just true, you know, for prolific people throughout history, 123 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: and you know Mozart and Beethoven and all these artists 124 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: and famous writers and everybody else, like they pretty much 125 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 1: got like three hours a day. And so I've tried 126 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: to be really really careful about what does that time 127 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: look like for me and how do I spend it? 128 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: So I've tried to be careful. That's something I've tried 129 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 1: to like think a little bit more about. 130 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 2: So how do you then, like protect those precious focus hours? 131 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 2: I don't know, like, do you have new rules in 132 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 2: place or ways that you think about your day that 133 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:33,880 Speaker 2: have helped served you. 134 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: I feel like more than protecting them from anybody else, 135 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 1: I am the problem. Like it's me, I'm the problem. 136 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: I feel like the way that my life is going 137 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: to be disrupted is much more likely because I fail 138 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,279 Speaker 1: to take action, I fail to plan or actually like 139 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:54,360 Speaker 1: use that time. Well, you know, there's nobody else that's 140 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: going to take that time away from me. It will 141 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: only be taken away from me, you know, if I 142 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 1: agree to do things in certain hours that I shouldn't 143 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: do them or whatever. You know, Like, the far greater 144 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:07,240 Speaker 1: problem is my own resistance. And so I think the 145 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: way that I address that is, like, like I always say, 146 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: the greatest productivity hack is to love what you do. 147 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: I know that probably sounds very basic and reductive, but 148 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: if you actually love what you do, it's going to 149 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 1: be so much easier to get up and go and 150 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,640 Speaker 1: do that thing, versus, Oh, I have to do this thing. 151 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: How can I psych myself up? How can I manufacture 152 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 1: motivation to do this thing that I have to do? 153 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,160 Speaker 1: And you know, it's theoretically possible to do that for 154 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 1: a certain amount amount of time, But wouldn't it be 155 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: so much better to like craft a life or craft 156 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: at least some projects some parts of our life around 157 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,800 Speaker 1: those things that we're really excited about, And then you know, 158 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,360 Speaker 1: you feel a lot less resistance to you know, diving 159 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: into them and working and they're still resistance. There's still problems, 160 00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: but honestly, I feel like that solves like eighty percent 161 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 1: of the motivation problem. 162 00:07:56,520 --> 00:07:58,560 Speaker 2: We will be back with Chris soon and when we 163 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 2: writ down we'll discuss why he stopped trying to use 164 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 2: and follow productivity hacks and his trick to figuring out 165 00:08:06,560 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 2: what is and isn't a valuable use of your time. 166 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 2: If you're looking for more tips to improve the way 167 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 2: you work can live. I write a short weekly newsletter 168 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,760 Speaker 2: that contains tactics I've discovered that have helped me personally. 169 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:26,200 Speaker 2: You can sign up for that at Amantha dot com. 170 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: That's Amantha dot com. It's funny, like when I think 171 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: about time rules actually, and again, when I was reading 172 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,360 Speaker 2: the book, I was reflecting on this a lot, and 173 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 2: not to bring it back to email, but it's my 174 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:45,640 Speaker 2: achilles heel. And interestingly, I find that for a lot 175 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 2: of the you know, the productivity folk that I have 176 00:08:48,120 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: on the podcast, Like I think of Jake Napp, for example, 177 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 2: who I've had on a few times, and I feel like, yeah, 178 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: email was his achilles heel, and there have been others. 179 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 2: And one of the things that I've been catching myself 180 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: thinking is that generally, like ninety percent of the time, 181 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 2: my phone does not have email on it, So don't 182 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: have my email app on my phone, which I think 183 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,720 Speaker 2: in and of itself is quite unusual. And I do 184 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: that so that I can't just mindlessly check email whenever 185 00:09:16,040 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 2: I want when I'm on the go, but sometimes I'll 186 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,720 Speaker 2: need it on my phone, whether it's there's a link 187 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 2: to tickets that I've bought for a show, and so 188 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:26,240 Speaker 2: I'm just like, I'll just get email on my phone 189 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: so I can do that easily and frictionlessly, and then 190 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: it'll stay on my phone for a few days because 191 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: I'll forget to delete it, and I will experience this 192 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:39,760 Speaker 2: sense of stress when I see an email come through, 193 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 2: because my brain whenever it reads an email, and I'm 194 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: sure this is how most people's brains work, is that 195 00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,280 Speaker 2: they go, I need to respond to that, and then 196 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: the stress starts because there's something that is on how 197 00:09:51,160 --> 00:09:53,960 Speaker 2: to do list that is not yet done, and I 198 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: think about what if I haven't seen that email for 199 00:09:56,640 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 2: two days, I wouldn't have had that thought, and I 200 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: would have responded at some stage in the future, and 201 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:06,640 Speaker 2: that worry wouldn't have been there, or that task taking 202 00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: up space in my mind wouldn't have been there. Just 203 00:10:09,840 --> 00:10:14,960 Speaker 2: these self imposed deadlines and assumptions cause us a lot 204 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,080 Speaker 2: of stress, whereas if we just didn't see the thing, 205 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:21,400 Speaker 2: the stress wouldn't be there. And just how artificial it is? 206 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 2: Can you relate to any of this, Chris No. 207 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. I think it's interesting. Two things. One, 208 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:30,760 Speaker 1: it's you know, even if you decide I'm not going 209 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,640 Speaker 1: to respond until later, that thing is already like in 210 00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 1: your brain, like you've already taken it in, so you're 211 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,560 Speaker 1: going to be it's going to be like you're going 212 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: to be thinking about it, or even if you're not 213 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: thinking about it, you're not thinking about thinking about it, 214 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: and you are thinking about it. Right. But also the 215 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 1: second thing is is like, is it just the notification 216 00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 1: that's the problem, right, Because if you have the email 217 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:54,079 Speaker 1: app on your phone but you don't have the notifications 218 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: turned on, then you don't actually see when the new 219 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: messages are coming in. Right, it's accessible to you if 220 00:10:58,320 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 1: you need to go get the tickets for the show 221 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,560 Speaker 1: or whatever else. But it sounds like in that case, 222 00:11:02,600 --> 00:11:04,240 Speaker 1: maybe the notification is the problem. 223 00:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 2: I don't have my notification switched on for email, This 224 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 2: is me. 225 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: How do you know that the email has come through. 226 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,800 Speaker 2: Because I check it? Because I don't really have social 227 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: media on my phone. My phone is quite boring, and 228 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 2: so when email is on it, it's like, well, that's 229 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:21,320 Speaker 2: an exciting thing that's going to possibly give me a 230 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:23,319 Speaker 2: dope for meat hit. If there's like a good email 231 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: in there, it's entirely my own doing, which is why, 232 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 2: as many productivity people say, don't rely on willpower. Set 233 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:33,319 Speaker 2: up your systems so that you're not relying on willpower 234 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 2: to not do the thing. And so if email is 235 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:37,480 Speaker 2: not on my phone, I don't think about email and 236 00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:38,600 Speaker 2: I don't check my email. 237 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 1: I kept trying to get better and better at doing 238 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: these things, and this is part of why I wrote 239 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:45,680 Speaker 1: the book, as like I tried to follow all these 240 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: rules right, and these habits about like I shouldn't have 241 00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:49,800 Speaker 1: this app on my phone, and this is how my 242 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: notifications need to be set up. And there's a thousand 243 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: other things right, like we've all read them in like 244 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: all the books and so on, And I guess I 245 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 1: was pretty good at it, Like I was pretty good 246 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: at the productivity game. And at a certain point I 247 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,840 Speaker 1: just realized what am I actually getting better at? Like, 248 00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,079 Speaker 1: ultimately I think I'm getting better at doing the wrong things, 249 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,400 Speaker 1: or even if some of those things can be helpful, 250 00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 1: like the more I do them, the more things that 251 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:18,800 Speaker 1: will come back. And are these things really making it, 252 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: you know, measurable difference in my life or some of 253 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: them actually stressing me out? You know. It's like the 254 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: number of questions I get about even from people who've 255 00:12:29,240 --> 00:12:31,520 Speaker 1: read the book, because I'm like, the system doesn't matter. 256 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: You should probably have some kind of list making system 257 00:12:33,679 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: and task things. It's fine, but it doesn't really matter 258 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:38,120 Speaker 1: what it is. You should do what's best for you. 259 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,960 Speaker 1: But still I'm going on book tour and people are like, 260 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: tell me a little bit about your productivity setup and 261 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,640 Speaker 1: your stack and like what apps you use. I'm like, 262 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,680 Speaker 1: I'm fine to talk. I don't mind talking about that. 263 00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,160 Speaker 1: But I guess for me again, that was the problem. 264 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 1: Like I thought those things were going to help me 265 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:55,839 Speaker 1: or like remedy the distress I felt, and really they 266 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:58,880 Speaker 1: did not. And so honestly, the more simple the solution 267 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:01,840 Speaker 1: you can find, the better. Or if there's some productivity 268 00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: tool that requires a lot of learning, then I don't 269 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,160 Speaker 1: think that's a helpful tool, you know, if you're learning 270 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 1: to edit film, if you're learning to code, Like, these 271 00:13:09,679 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: are things in which you need to go and like 272 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: spend hours maybe watching some courses or YouTube and such, 273 00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,599 Speaker 1: because there is like higher knowledge required there. But for 274 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:20,840 Speaker 1: learning like these various systems and such, you know, keeping 275 00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: up a task, it should be very simple. So all 276 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: that to say, like learning these things and trying to 277 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,160 Speaker 1: apply all these tools was not helpful to me. 278 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:32,960 Speaker 2: Ultimately, Oh gosh, it's funny. I'm amused by that question 279 00:13:33,080 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 2: because I feel like it mildly misses the point of 280 00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: the book. But then also part of my mind is going, hmm, 281 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: what software does Chrissy use what it is told? And 282 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,240 Speaker 2: it's got me thinking, But that would just be totally 283 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:49,320 Speaker 2: beside the point. I like some of the practices in 284 00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 2: the book that are more around get around, like that 285 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 2: deeper reflection. And I think one of the questions that 286 00:13:56,559 --> 00:14:02,160 Speaker 2: you recommend people ask is what is special about this day? 287 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 2: Can you tell me more about like when should we 288 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:08,719 Speaker 2: ask that question? And what is the impact of doing sorry, what. 289 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: Is special about this day? I think I came to 290 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: that practice out of the belief or the concept that 291 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: when we think about life, people tend to think about 292 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: big moments. They tend to think like these milestones of 293 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 1: like here's this thing that happened in my life. It 294 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 1: was like a one off kind of thing. But really 295 00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 1: our lives consist much more of like ordinary moments and 296 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,240 Speaker 1: just the day to day, and a lot of that is, 297 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: you know, unmemorable or maybe in some ways like to 298 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 1: make it more active, forgettable, but yet at the same time, 299 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: like every day has something at least one thing, probably 300 00:14:45,880 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: more than one thing that is special. And for me, 301 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,760 Speaker 1: I've tried to work on being more present, on noticing, 302 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: more on mindfulness, but I also had to come to 303 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,480 Speaker 1: it from a different perspective because I'm not really good 304 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:01,080 Speaker 1: at meditation, and I've tried some of those practices and 305 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: they don't work super well for me. But to get 306 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,720 Speaker 1: to the same place, like noticing what is special about 307 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 1: this day, the ordinary moments that make up our life, 308 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: and there are things we can do to like inspire 309 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: that specialness. There are things we can do to like 310 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: make days special, whether it's a change in routine or 311 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,000 Speaker 1: just doing something a little bit different or asking what 312 00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:24,040 Speaker 1: matters right now? I also like this one about did 313 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:26,480 Speaker 1: today matter? So you ask this question at the end 314 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 1: of the day, like looking back, and it's really interesting 315 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: because it's not like asking was it a good day 316 00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: or a bad day? You know, like sometimes you can 317 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: actually have a bad day, but you feel like you 318 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,560 Speaker 1: made some progress in something, you spent time with people 319 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 1: that you loved, like you actually felt alive even though 320 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: the day was kind of stressful for whatever reason. Or 321 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 1: you can have days in which everything was kind of fine, 322 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:54,280 Speaker 1: but you look back and you're like, today, I'm not 323 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 1: really going to ever think about again. And so if 324 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: you think about did today matter and being able to 325 00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: answer yes, today mattered because of AB and C and 326 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,120 Speaker 1: those answers might be different for each person, that's helpful 327 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,400 Speaker 1: because the next day you want to do more of 328 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: those things and you know, hopefully like build up this 329 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:14,120 Speaker 1: streak of days that matter to you. So I think 330 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,000 Speaker 1: all of those things together, it's like pointing towards mindfulness, 331 00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: but maybe a way that's a little bit different from 332 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:20,680 Speaker 1: how other people have gotten there. 333 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:25,320 Speaker 2: It's an interesting question did today matter? I feel like 334 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 2: and I'm going to try this asking myself that question 335 00:16:28,840 --> 00:16:31,280 Speaker 2: certainly at the end of today and hopefully for a 336 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 2: few days. But I feel like I would answer that, well, 337 00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,200 Speaker 2: of course it did, and I would look for the meaning, 338 00:16:38,240 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: which would ultimately be a good thing to reflect on. Well, 339 00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 2: what did matter about today? Because I think as humans, 340 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:46,960 Speaker 2: you know, we don't want to go I've just wasted 341 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 2: a day, even though I think a lot of people 342 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 2: have that thought. At the end of the day, today 343 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,360 Speaker 2: felt like I wasted it. I messed around, I you know, 344 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 2: I spent too much time on social media or whatever. 345 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: Sure, sure, okay, that's a good point. Yeah, you could 346 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: like look back and find the meaning in it and 347 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 1: find what was special. But maybe here's another way to 348 00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: think of it. Then, So if we think about that pressure, 349 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: another question is like how valuable were my last forty minutes? 350 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: And so this is a much shorter time period, and 351 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: I do think if most people ask that question, there 352 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: are lots of times during the day that we will 353 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:21,199 Speaker 1: say the last forty minutes, I don't know that they 354 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 1: were that valuable. And so value can also mean productivity, 355 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 1: It can mean like satisfaction, enjoyment, learning. You know, there's 356 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: lots of different ways for your time to be valuable. 357 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,080 Speaker 1: But if you say, at any point during the day, 358 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 1: actually the last forty minutes not that valuable. Then you 359 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 1: can make a little shift and be like, oh, what 360 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,439 Speaker 1: do I want to do differently for the next forty minutes, 361 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,439 Speaker 1: And so it's not that long of a time that 362 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,879 Speaker 1: you have wasted, and it gives you a little chance 363 00:17:44,920 --> 00:17:46,360 Speaker 1: to reset. Perhaps. 364 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,600 Speaker 2: Yes, I love that question, and I'm curious how often 365 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,440 Speaker 2: do you ask yourself that question? 366 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:57,679 Speaker 1: A lot of these kind of activities and practices I 367 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,160 Speaker 1: kind of cycle between, and I'll be doing one for 368 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 1: a while and then I'll do something else for a while. 369 00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: For a long time, I was really into the five 370 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: goals thing. Do you know that whole model of like 371 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: you can only have five things, and you make a 372 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 1: list of your top twenty five, and then you choose 373 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: like the top five and then the other twenty or not. 374 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:20,159 Speaker 1: Things you do on the side. There are things that 375 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: you absolutely must not do because they're keeping you from 376 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,320 Speaker 1: your five. That's a whole like other rubric. I was 377 00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:27,159 Speaker 1: into that for a while, and so every day for 378 00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,800 Speaker 1: like six months, I would have like a paper journal 379 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 1: and I would write down like one, two, three, four, five, 380 00:18:31,920 --> 00:18:33,800 Speaker 1: like did I do that? You know? But this is 381 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 1: not like a lifelong practice It's something that helped me 382 00:18:36,480 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: for a little while, and then I kind of moved on. 383 00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:41,640 Speaker 1: So when you say, like this particular one, how often 384 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: am I doing it? I think I'm probably doing it 385 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:46,239 Speaker 1: a couple times a day. But it's not like I 386 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,159 Speaker 1: have like an alarm setup, you know, on my phone, 387 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:51,800 Speaker 1: and it's not like I have a journal that It's like, 388 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,119 Speaker 1: that's the old old Chris would would have like systematized 389 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 1: it and had it, like I don't know, built some 390 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,280 Speaker 1: spreadsheet or something for it. And thankfully I don't do 391 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:02,119 Speaker 1: things like that now. 392 00:19:03,600 --> 00:19:06,639 Speaker 2: What other practices like, because I always love knowing, like, 393 00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: particularly when you've written a book, and I mean you 394 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 2: would have submitted this manuscript twelve months ago or something 395 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:14,760 Speaker 2: like that. I imagine like one of the things I'm 396 00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:17,760 Speaker 2: so curious about. And I feel like I've experienced when 397 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 2: I'm doing publicity for the books that I've written, it's like, 398 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:25,120 Speaker 2: oh gosh, I've either moved on from that or I'm 399 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 2: only using a subset of what I wrote about. What 400 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,439 Speaker 2: are those things like right now? You know in the 401 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,520 Speaker 2: last few weeks that you're like, yeah, I'm doing that 402 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 2: a lot. 403 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,840 Speaker 1: Actually, Well, at the beginning of this conversation. I think 404 00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:42,160 Speaker 1: we touched on legacy versus living well. That is something 405 00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: that I think about a lot. I try to think 406 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,800 Speaker 1: about what is living well look like for me at 407 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,479 Speaker 1: this season. I am very like project focused and like 408 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:52,640 Speaker 1: goal oriented, and I'm always going to be that way. 409 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:54,200 Speaker 1: Like I haven't given that up. I think I said 410 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,479 Speaker 1: that too, but I'm often going back to, like, Okay, 411 00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: what should I be doing right now? You know things 412 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,560 Speaker 1: I could be doing. And then also I wrote a 413 00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:06,879 Speaker 1: good bit about choice and about how life ultimately is 414 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:11,119 Speaker 1: about choice and choosing and there are more things that 415 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: we want to do then we'll be able to do. 416 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:18,720 Speaker 1: Desire is limitless, and there's actually joy in selecting and 417 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,960 Speaker 1: choosing and making decisions. And so I started writing the 418 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:25,360 Speaker 1: book because I felt like, IRE's not enough time. I've 419 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: missed my I've already pequked and I've missed my chance 420 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,680 Speaker 1: or whatever, and like now I'm like, there's still time. 421 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,399 Speaker 1: There's still time for things that I can do new things. 422 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: You know, I can change, I can adjust and adapt. 423 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:39,400 Speaker 1: And so I think that is something that is very 424 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:40,879 Speaker 1: much with me. I know that sounds kind of a 425 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: big picture, but it actually really doesn't form like my 426 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:45,119 Speaker 1: day to day and think about what is it that 427 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: I want to work on. I just put on a 428 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: new event a couple of months ago in Austin, Texas 429 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 1: for the neurodivergent community. And like I used to produce 430 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:55,720 Speaker 1: another annual event. I did it for ten years with 431 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,879 Speaker 1: David Fugate, our mutual friend and literary agent, and you know, 432 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,479 Speaker 1: we built that event up year after year and then 433 00:21:02,480 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: it came to a natural end. So I wanted to 434 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: start this new event, and so to make a long 435 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,360 Speaker 1: story short, I did it and it went really well, 436 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: and it was for a relatively small number of people. 437 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 1: There were just like a couple hundred people there, and 438 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: it took several months of like full time work. So 439 00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: on the scale of like you know, like from like 440 00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,400 Speaker 1: a hard business and analysis like is this the best 441 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: thing for me to be doing? Maybe somebody would say no, 442 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: but I'm like, this is absolutely what I should be doing. 443 00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 1: Like it was totally the right thing. I'm excited about, 444 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: you know, building it more for a year or two. 445 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:33,600 Speaker 1: So maybe just thinking about what really matters and how 446 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: do I apply that is something that I try to do. 447 00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,639 Speaker 2: Have you changed, you know since writing time? Anxiety like 448 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,120 Speaker 2: your process of thinking about what projects you do take 449 00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,680 Speaker 2: on versus what you say no to or get left 450 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 2: on the cutting room floor. 451 00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: I don't know if the process has changed so much 452 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:55,760 Speaker 1: as I no longer feel bad or not as bad 453 00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: about the things I'm not doing or the things that 454 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 1: I'm not great at. I have a lot of friends 455 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:05,040 Speaker 1: who are really good at social media, and they're just 456 00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,440 Speaker 1: crushing that, and they're all these profiles and like new 457 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 1: videos and reels every day. It's just so so great 458 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:13,760 Speaker 1: to watch. And you know, I used to feel very 459 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,239 Speaker 1: envious of it, and now I just feel like, I mean, 460 00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: maybe I feel like ten percent envious of it, but 461 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: it's more just like, that's what they do. They're really 462 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: good at that. That's not me. You know, There's other 463 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: things I'm going to do. So I don't know if 464 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:27,719 Speaker 1: it's the process that's changed, it's more of the FOMO 465 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,920 Speaker 1: has decreased. So that's good, that's awesome. 466 00:22:31,520 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 2: Well, Chris, how useful has the last forty minutes been 467 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,240 Speaker 2: for you? Has it been a good use of your time? 468 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 2: Longer than forty minutes we're recorded for though. 469 00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: I really love this conversation. You have asked some really 470 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: smart questions. You actually read the book, I can tell, 471 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:47,480 Speaker 1: and you are someone who's worked in this field for years. 472 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: I have a lot of respect for you. It has 473 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:53,119 Speaker 1: been a wonderful conversation and a wonderful use of forty 474 00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:53,760 Speaker 1: plus minutes. 475 00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 2: I hope you love the second part of this chat 476 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 2: with Chris as much as I did. I am definitely 477 00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:05,040 Speaker 2: going to be trying that forty minute reflection tip. I 478 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 2: personally think that is just gold. Now. If you want 479 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 2: to learn more about Chris, I highly recommend checking out 480 00:23:10,760 --> 00:23:14,040 Speaker 2: his new book, Time Anxiety. You'll find a link to 481 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,199 Speaker 2: that in the show notes. If you like today's show, 482 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,080 Speaker 2: make sure you gid follow on your podcast app to 483 00:23:20,119 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 2: be alerted when new episodes drop. How I Work was 484 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 2: recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery People, part 485 00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: of the Cool and Nation