1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:04,120 Speaker 1: Already and this this is the daily This is the Daily. 2 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:06,920 Speaker 1: Ohs oh, now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday, 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 2: the sixth of March. 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Sam. 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 2: There's been a lot of news recently about the parent 7 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 2: company of Facebook and Instagram, Meta, Meta will not renew 8 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 2: its deal with Australian that news media organizations Levell. 9 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Social media giant Meta is stearing down with a confrontation 10 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,519 Speaker 1: with federal government for announcing it'll scrap its deal to 11 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:39,280 Speaker 1: fund Australian news publishers. 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:43,200 Speaker 2: So what's it all about. Well, the social media giant 13 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 2: has made some pretty big decisions around how it funds 14 00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 2: and supports news media in this country. I think it's 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:52,120 Speaker 2: fair to say that it could have a massive impact 16 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 2: on the way that you consume news. We're going to 17 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,480 Speaker 2: explain everything you need to know about Meta's decision in 18 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: the Deep Dive. But first Sam, it's making deadlines. 19 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: A house fire near Newcastle in New South Wales has 20 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,440 Speaker 1: claimed the lives of two people, which firefighters say are 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: the state's first deaths from a lithium iron battery. Fire 22 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 1: Fire and Rescue said two others managed to escape the blaze, 23 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,560 Speaker 1: which it blamed on the batteries. It said there have 24 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: been forty five fires related to lithium iron batteries in 25 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: New South Wales in twenty twenty four. So far, the 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 1: batteries have been linked to multiple incidents around Australia and 27 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: the world, particularly from e bikes. Firefighters are urging people 28 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:35,039 Speaker 1: to use extra caution and to avoid leaving lithium iron 29 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: batteries charging unattended. 30 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: The cost of private health insurance will increase by an 31 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 2: average of three point zero three percent on the first 32 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 2: of April, but specific increases will vary by insurer. Health 33 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 2: Minister Mark Butler said any increase during cost of living 34 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,960 Speaker 2: pressures will be hard to bear, but that annual health 35 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 2: insurance premiums had increased at a slower rate than wages 36 00:01:57,360 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: and inflation. 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 1: Tuesday, which is a major test for presidential candidates, is 38 00:02:03,400 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: underway in the US. Republicans and Democrats in sixteen different 39 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,799 Speaker 1: states will vote in primaries to determine who will lead 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 1: each major party into the presidential election. Republican voters choose 41 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:19,559 Speaker 1: between Republican nominee favorite Donald Trump and former US Ambassador 42 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,920 Speaker 1: to the UN Nikki Hailey. President Joe Biden will almost 43 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: certainly lead the Democrats ahead of the November election. Primary 44 00:02:26,800 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 1: polls will remain open until this afternoon Australia time. 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:34,679 Speaker 2: And today's good News. An international travel list has named 46 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: Queensland home to the best beach in the world. Queensland's 47 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: Palm Cove Beach top Conde Nast travelers list of the 48 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 2: best beaches in the world. It described Palm Cove as 49 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: the epitome of a tropical paradise. Five other Ossie beaches 50 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 2: made at the list of thirty four, including Sydney's Monavale 51 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:57,800 Speaker 2: Beach and Western Australia's Turquoise Nay. It has been a 52 00:02:57,840 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: big couple of weeks to be in media, and I 53 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:04,120 Speaker 2: do think that we're often hesitance and to talk about 54 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:06,920 Speaker 2: stories to do with media. Think it can sometimes feel 55 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: a bit insidery, a bit like who outside the industry 56 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 2: possibly cares about our industry. But I do think that 57 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: this story has now passed the threshold where it's going 58 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 2: to impact not just news publishers but also the people 59 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:22,119 Speaker 2: consuming news, so I think that we should talk about 60 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: it today. I'm going to end my preamble there, because 61 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: no one knows exactly what I'm talking about here, but essentially, Meta, 62 00:03:28,639 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 2: the company that owns Facebook, Instagram, and WhatsApp, announced last 63 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 2: week it will not renew its deals with large traditional 64 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: Australian media companies. Separately, Matter also announced last month that 65 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 2: it is taking steps to limit the reach of what's 66 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,720 Speaker 2: called political content on its platforms. Now Ozzie News publishers 67 00:03:48,800 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: are fearing a breakdown in talks between the tech giant 68 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: and the Aussie government could lead to news being blocked 69 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: on Meta's platforms, and this has already happened in Canada before. 70 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 1: There's so much info in what you just said. There's 71 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,400 Speaker 1: kind of almost two different lanes, almost too much information, 72 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:06,760 Speaker 1: almost too much. There's two different lanes of inquiry. I 73 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: think we need to go down. I think we need 74 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,880 Speaker 1: to talk about the not renewing deals bit, but then 75 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 1: also talk about the political content bit. And thereach one first. 76 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: I do want to touch on Canada as well. 77 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:16,760 Speaker 2: Right, we're doing all things. 78 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 1: Tell me about the commercial deals bit. 79 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,559 Speaker 2: Okay, So last week Meta announced it would shut down 80 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: Facebook News and that it wouldn't enter into new commercial 81 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 2: deals with publishers. So both of those pieces of information 82 00:04:29,640 --> 00:04:33,719 Speaker 2: were enclosed in the same press release. These commercial deals 83 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: that we're talking about were signed with several news outlets 84 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: in Australia. I do just want to say the Daily 85 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,760 Speaker 2: Oels was not one of them, and that was following 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: the introduction of the News Bargaining Code in twenty twenty one. 87 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,240 Speaker 2: The News Bargaining Code was a law that basically just 88 00:04:48,320 --> 00:04:53,400 Speaker 2: required tech giants to pay to host news on their platforms. 89 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 2: So when we're talking about the Bargaining Code, just think 90 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: about the fact that tech giants were paying big news 91 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 2: publishers so I think News Corp, Think nine to have 92 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:05,400 Speaker 2: news on their platforms. Now. In response to this law 93 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: being introduced back in twenty twenty one and the negotiations 94 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 2: that arose from it, Meta removed news from Facebook for 95 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 2: a very brief period of time in February twenty twenty one. 96 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: And that was actually when you and I had just 97 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:19,479 Speaker 1: quit our other full time jobs to start full time 98 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 1: on the Daily os And it was pretty scary. 99 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,279 Speaker 2: It was a terrible, terrible time for us because we thought, 100 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: just after we had quit our very stable jobs, that 101 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,840 Speaker 2: that was it. But it turned out that that was temporary. 102 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 2: That news was restored to Facebook, and eventually both Meta 103 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 2: and Google signed deals with publishers, and so it's those 104 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: deals that Meta has announced it will not renew. 105 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 1: So that announcement came out on Friday, and what do 106 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: we know about why Meta is choosing not to renew 107 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: those deals. 108 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: According to the company, the decision was made to quote 109 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: better align our investments to our products and services that 110 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:58,080 Speaker 2: people value most. So what they're saying there is that 111 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 2: they don't believe that lots of people go to Facebook 112 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: for news. I'll quote what they said in the statement. 113 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 2: They said, we know that people don't come to Facebook 114 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 2: for news and political content. They come to connect with 115 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:12,599 Speaker 2: people and discover new opportunities, passions, and interests. Meta also 116 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 2: said the changes affecting the Facebook News feature will not 117 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 2: otherwise impact metas product and services in Australia. People will 118 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 2: still be able to view links to news articles on Facebook. 119 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 1: Okay, so it looks like Meta is basically saying we 120 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 1: don't think that people use Facebook for news. 121 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 2: Well, then aren't saying they think? They had data to 122 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 2: back it up. They said that I think it was 123 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:38,440 Speaker 2: three percent of all traffic goes to news pages on Facebook, 124 00:06:38,480 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 2: and then that was the data set that they were 125 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,039 Speaker 2: quoting when they were saying it's not huge. It's not 126 00:06:43,120 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: that big for us. The you know, other ninety seven 127 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 2: percent are coming for other things and that's where they 128 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:49,480 Speaker 2: want their priorities to. 129 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 1: Lie, okay, and that's why they've moved their money away 130 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:54,240 Speaker 1: from news companies. But what's the actual impact of that 131 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 1: move for news companies? 132 00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 2: So publishers who had deals with Meta, so think News 133 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 2: Corp nine than ten the kind of bigger players because 134 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:04,799 Speaker 2: they were the ones in the room, they will lose 135 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: millions of dollars in funding. So there was an exclusive 136 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:11,040 Speaker 2: article sound that we sent to each other in the 137 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: Financial Review earlier this week, and in that article it 138 00:07:15,000 --> 00:07:18,400 Speaker 2: was estimated that nine seven and News Corp will lose 139 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 2: between five to nine percent of their net profit each 140 00:07:21,720 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 2: year if the deals don't continue. And obviously we can't 141 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 2: independently verify that because they've seen agreements that we haven't. 142 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 2: But that's what that finn Review article is saying. In 143 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 2: terms of the economic impact of Meta's decision, many smaller 144 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:39,120 Speaker 2: news outlets, including US, weren't ever included in those deals. 145 00:07:39,240 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: So the decision won't directly impact all news companies in Australia, 146 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: but it will definitely impact a few in a very 147 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 2: major way. The federal government has express quite significant concern 148 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:53,840 Speaker 2: over the decision, and they've said that they're looking at 149 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: what options are available, including some possible fines to Meta 150 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:01,360 Speaker 2: if the federal government decides to take action against Meta. 151 00:08:01,880 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: This is where the problem lies for everyone else, for 152 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 2: all the rest of the publishers, because it could push 153 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:10,640 Speaker 2: Meta to remove news content from all of its platforms, 154 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 2: and there is a precedent there. Meta has done this 155 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 2: before in. 156 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 1: Canada, So how does that actually work in Canada? 157 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: So I messaged a friend's sister who I know lives 158 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,040 Speaker 2: in Toronto and asked her to type in the Daily 159 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:23,280 Speaker 2: Ohs on her Instagram. 160 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,239 Speaker 1: It's for all international media as well. 161 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so anyone that is in Canada trying to look 162 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 2: at news content. So she typed in the Daily os 163 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 2: and then she sent me a screenshot and it said 164 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,800 Speaker 2: people in Canada can't see this content in response to 165 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:41,439 Speaker 2: Canadian government legislation, news can't be viewed in Canada. 166 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: And that's on top of where the posts. 167 00:08:43,440 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 2: You can't see anything. You can't even look at our feed, 168 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: there's nothing. So Canada is this example of where the 169 00:08:50,679 --> 00:08:53,839 Speaker 2: government and Meta have tried to negotiate, They've tried to 170 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: reach a conclusion, and in the end, Meta has walked 171 00:08:56,880 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 2: away from those discussions and has taken off from its platform. 172 00:09:01,040 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: And that's been the lay of the land for about 173 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: seven months, right. 174 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's really hurt a lot of local publishers there. 175 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,679 Speaker 2: It's that precedent, it's that case study that people are 176 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: watching very closely because they are worried the same could 177 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:15,719 Speaker 2: happen here in Australia. I do just want to add, 178 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,200 Speaker 2: though there hasn't been any clear indication from Meta that 179 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,320 Speaker 2: they are considering this or that they are planning to 180 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: do it. People are just looking overseas at these examples 181 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: and taking away what they believe is a possibility. But 182 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: I do just want to say there has been nothing 183 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,359 Speaker 2: to indicate that this is happening right now. 184 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,040 Speaker 1: Okay, And then if we zoom out of this tension 185 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: that Meta has with the Australian news industry and perhaps 186 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: even Canada as well, and look at Meta's attitudes towards 187 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 1: news globally. They've also made some announcements around what type 188 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: of content you can see on Meta products wherever you 189 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: are in the world. 190 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,120 Speaker 2: They have I think we first heard about this when 191 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 2: we saw some of our favorite Instagram news pages posting 192 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,360 Speaker 2: about Meta's decision. So Meta announced last month that it 193 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:06,800 Speaker 2: didn't want to proactively amplify political content from accounts you 194 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 2: don't follow. So, in a statement, Adam Massari, who is 195 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 2: the head of Instagram, said that Meta would improve quote 196 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: how we avoid recommending content about politics on recommendation services. 197 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: So we're talking here about the explore page. See reels 198 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: that you don't follow the page from. It's kind of 199 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:25,880 Speaker 1: those organic ways that content pops up. 200 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, So Instagram is saying there that they do not 201 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,760 Speaker 2: want political content to be surfacing in those recommendation areas. 202 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 2: They were making the point that if you choose and 203 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: you opt into wanting that, then that's totally fine. They 204 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 2: don't want to get in the way of that. It's 205 00:10:39,280 --> 00:10:41,000 Speaker 2: more for the people that are not looking for it. 206 00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 2: That's where their concern lies, and they don't want them 207 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,640 Speaker 2: just being served political content. 208 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: What is political content? 209 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:50,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean they defined it, I'd say pretty loosely. 210 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 2: They said potentially related to things like laws, elections, or 211 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,760 Speaker 2: social topics. Right, So I'd say a few things fall 212 00:10:57,760 --> 00:10:59,160 Speaker 2: into those categories. 213 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,079 Speaker 1: And we don't know exactly how news on politics fits 214 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:02,440 Speaker 1: into that. 215 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: No, and I mean we checked our settings and we 216 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,040 Speaker 2: are still able to be recommended. I imagine that this 217 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 2: will be a phased rollout and you know, we might 218 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: see some changes over time. But a lot of the 219 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 2: commentary has highlighted that much of the world is going 220 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,760 Speaker 2: to an election this year and that, you know, political content, 221 00:11:19,920 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: or specifically political news content is vitally important for a 222 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:28,320 Speaker 2: demographic that gets their news on social media, and so 223 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: it'll be really interesting to see where Meta goes with this. 224 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,680 Speaker 2: They've had a lot of pressure in the US, specifically 225 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:38,360 Speaker 2: from Congress about their role in misinformation, disinformation and elections 226 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:42,200 Speaker 2: more generally, so really fascinated to see where this goes. Sam, 227 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:45,440 Speaker 2: Before we go, we've been speaking here a lot about 228 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,800 Speaker 2: what happens if news isn't easily accessible on social media. 229 00:11:50,880 --> 00:11:52,920 Speaker 2: You and I built a business off doing that, of 230 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 2: making news really accessible and meeting people where they're at, 231 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: which we've always said is social media. How do you 232 00:11:58,880 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 2: feel about all of this? 233 00:12:00,320 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: Well, I don't think I've been particularly surprised that we're 234 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: here and that the Australian news ecosystems having this discussion. 235 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:09,319 Speaker 1: Now you and I have been having this discussion for 236 00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: a long time, and that's why we've been so focused 237 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: on building out other products of the business, like a 238 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,320 Speaker 1: podcast or a newsletter, and spaces where we can have 239 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: a more direct relationship with the audience. There's this really 240 00:12:20,280 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 1: interesting analogy that people often say to us of a 241 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: rented audience versus an owned audience, and that's the truth. 242 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: On social media, you're renting the audience from the social 243 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: media platform, and. 244 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: It can be taken away at any minute, and that's 245 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,199 Speaker 2: their right. It's a private. 246 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: Company, exactly, and it's not the World Wide Web where 247 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,079 Speaker 1: you can kind of have a more democratic layer of 248 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 1: the land. So we need to keep focusing on building 249 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: those relationships directly with people we're talking to right now, 250 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:49,680 Speaker 1: our listeners and people who read our newsletter in the morning, 251 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 1: because our society will always need news. Where they get 252 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: it might shift, but we need to turn up wherever people, 253 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: especially young people are, and I. 254 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,480 Speaker 2: Think it's a good reminder we run a free service. 255 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 2: We've never as anyone to pay a cent, but it's 256 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: a precarious position to be in when our biggest audience 257 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:08,959 Speaker 2: is on social media. So if you are looking to 258 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,400 Speaker 2: support the Daily Ods. You can sign up to our newsletter. 259 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 2: We will throw the link in today's show notes first up. 260 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,280 Speaker 2: That means that we will always have a relationship with you, 261 00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,520 Speaker 2: our audience, even if tomorrow we turn on Instagram and 262 00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: it's no longer showing news. 263 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 1: Let's hope that day doesn't come. Zara, and thank you 264 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,000 Speaker 1: for listening to today's episode of The Daily Os. We'll 265 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:29,040 Speaker 1: put that link to the newsletter in the show notes. 266 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: We'll be back again in our ears tomorrow. Until then, 267 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 1: have a good day. My name is Lily Madden and 268 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Calcutin woman from Gadighl Country. 269 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on 270 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to 271 00:13:49,920 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: all Aboriginal and Torres Straight Island and nations. We pay 272 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,200 Speaker 1: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both 273 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: past and present.