1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: Now, yesterday in Parliament, as I've mentioned, things certainly got 2 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: pretty fiery. Joining us on the line is the Member 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: for Ara Lun, the Independent Member for Ara Lun, Robin Lamley. 4 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 2: Good morning, Robin, Good morning, kat Robin. 5 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: I tell you what, there was a lot to take 6 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:19,880 Speaker 1: in yesterday, but during question time things just descended into 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: well face. I think everybody was interjecting each other and 8 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,319 Speaker 1: control appeared as though it had been lost. Was I 9 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: incorrect in thinking. 10 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 2: That You're right on the money, Katie? It was out 11 00:00:32,600 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 2: of control. It was crazy. I've been coming to Parliament 12 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 2: as a member for many years now, more than ten years, 13 00:00:41,920 --> 00:00:44,159 Speaker 2: and that would have to have rated as one of 14 00:00:44,159 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 2: the worst days I've seen, really really quite disgraceful. 15 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: What was it do you think, Robin, that was so 16 00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 1: disgraceful or what concerned you so much? Because how many 17 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: years have you been in Parliament. 18 00:00:56,200 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: Now almost eleven, so that's pretty big call. We've had 19 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,320 Speaker 2: pretty incredible question times over the years. But I think 20 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,520 Speaker 2: what stood out yesterday is that there was literally a 21 00:01:09,640 --> 00:01:13,360 Speaker 2: lack of control. The Government members thought that they were 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: being pretty clever, pretty smart, interjecting constantly raising points of 23 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 2: order that were frivolous and vexatious, I thought, and the 24 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 2: Speaker felt that she had to honor those complaints basically 25 00:01:30,880 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 2: made by the government on the floor against the opposition leader. 26 00:01:34,840 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: And all it did was stifled debate. It shut down 27 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: the parliamentary process to the point where the opposition leader 28 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 2: couldn't give her speech, couldn't do what she's actually paid 29 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: to do, that's her role in parliament. Or because the 30 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: government decided that they were having fun, they were playing 31 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 2: games essentially. 32 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 1: Robin in look, I know that there'll be some people 33 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:01,840 Speaker 1: who who were thinking, oh, hang on, Robin used to 34 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: be a member of the COLP. She's just sticking up 35 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 1: for Leah. But in the eleven years that you have 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: been in the parliament, is it a regular occurrence to 37 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 1: have a censure motion well knocked back or refused. 38 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: That's a really good question, Katie. When the former CLP 39 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: government of which I was a part of for a 40 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:31,400 Speaker 2: few years was was in power, I don't remember us 41 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 2: knocking back a centi motion more than once or twice 42 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: during that four year period. The government takes it on 43 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: the chin and they accept a cent of motion because 44 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:47,239 Speaker 2: that's what you do now since twenty sixteen since Gunna 45 00:02:47,400 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 2: came to government. They had four years of having no opposition. 46 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 2: I don't think they were centured more than once or 47 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 2: twice or accepted a cent of motion more than once 48 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 2: or twice in the last four years of the last parliament. 49 00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: And now they're knocking back every single centu motion that 50 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: the opposition put forward when they have an opposition. So 51 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,679 Speaker 2: the difference is quite stark. This government is not accepting 52 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,679 Speaker 2: sensumations and it is poor form. They should be accepting 53 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 2: the motion and they should be fighting and defending themselves 54 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:25,600 Speaker 2: using that sentuation to put their case as to why 55 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,760 Speaker 2: they made the decision, for example, to give the twelve 56 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,560 Speaker 2: billion dollars to the Darwin Turf Club for the bank 57 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: and using it as an opportunity. But no, they think 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 2: they're too smart. And yes, I was a member of 59 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: the COLP, but that's a long time ago, Katie. I 60 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 2: left the COLP in twenty fifteen. I've been sitting in 61 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: that parliament most of that time, apart from a few 62 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 2: months as an independent, and I can see very clearly 63 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: that this is going nowhere. It's not enhancing democracy and 64 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 2: it's not enhancing debate. It's shutting down a conversation in 65 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: parliament which territory is. Want to hear. 66 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: Robin, for those out there listening who maybe aren't as 67 00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: avid political observers as myself, can you explain to them, 68 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: you know, like in really normal person terms, what a 69 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,279 Speaker 1: center motion does and what it enables inside parliament. 70 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:22,480 Speaker 2: So a censi motion comes usually during question time, normally 71 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 2: at the end of question time, so the opposition ask 72 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:29,919 Speaker 2: a number of questions, usually along on the same theme 73 00:04:30,000 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 2: as what the center motion will be. This is the 74 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: sort of tax standard tactic used, and at some point 75 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: towards the end of question time they move that all 76 00:04:39,480 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 2: standing orders or all rules around question time be suspended 77 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 2: so they can basically center the government, which means move 78 00:04:49,360 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 2: emotion that the government has done something or rather wrong 79 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,200 Speaker 2: or could have done something better, and it takes precedence 80 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:02,039 Speaker 2: over all other business on the agenda, and it is 81 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 2: an extreme measure, usually to highlight an extreme matter of 82 00:05:08,000 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: public importance. And in previous parliaments, as I said before, 83 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: cent of motions were used almost in every parliamentary sitting 84 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 2: because there's always something that the opposition wants to censure 85 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 2: the government on. There's always something of great importance to 86 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,359 Speaker 2: the community that the opposition feel should take precedence, but 87 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:33,280 Speaker 2: this government, the Gunner government, shuts them down routinely, and 88 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:35,800 Speaker 2: I would suggest over the last five years they've only 89 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 2: ever accepted one or two centuries, which is just unbelievable 90 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:41,280 Speaker 2: from my perspective. 91 00:05:41,520 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 1: Robin, I do want to ask my understanding from yesterday 92 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 1: watching question time is the Speaker Niria kit has now 93 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: determined that a parliamentary committee is going to look at 94 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 1: the term offense and the way it's used in parliament. 95 00:05:56,279 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 1: The committee's going to look more closely after there were 96 00:05:58,880 --> 00:06:03,159 Speaker 1: several standing orders called due to members taking offense to comments. 97 00:06:04,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: Do you think that this needs to happen, Robin. 98 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: No, I don't very respectfully because I have to be 99 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 2: very careful not to reflect on the speaker the yeah, 100 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 2: otherwise I could find myself in trouble. But I don't 101 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: think that that's going to go anywhere at all. Don't 102 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:26,600 Speaker 2: forget that every single parliamentary committee is operated and controlled 103 00:06:26,640 --> 00:06:30,200 Speaker 2: by the government. So if you're sending this sort of 104 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 2: issue in this case to the Standing Orders Committee to 105 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 2: look at what's offensive and what's not, you will only 106 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 2: ever come out with a result or a recommendation from 107 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:43,479 Speaker 2: that committee that fits into the government's agenda. It's a 108 00:06:43,520 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: complete waste of time, Katie. Yeah, I think the speaker. 109 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 2: The Speaker's role is always up to the interpretation by 110 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: the person who sits in that job. And if I 111 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 2: was a speaker, my interpretation of my role would be 112 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:03,200 Speaker 2: to rule on whether something is offensive or not. I 113 00:07:03,240 --> 00:07:06,200 Speaker 2: think the Speaker has the power to do that. For 114 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:10,760 Speaker 2: some reason, Nari doesn't think she has that power, and 115 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,760 Speaker 2: she's referring to a committee. I think she has that power, 116 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:16,480 Speaker 2: and I'd like to see her use it. 117 00:07:16,880 --> 00:07:18,920 Speaker 1: Robin, I do want to ask you. I know that 118 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: it was also decided yesterday. The Chief Minister had moved 119 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:25,560 Speaker 1: a motion and this is something that it appeared as 120 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: so everybody agreed on. The Chief Minister moved that motion 121 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 1: well to refer the former Independent Commissioner against Corruption Ken 122 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 1: Fleming to the Privilege's Committee. Is this a good idea? 123 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 2: Oh, look, of course it's a good idea. It was 124 00:07:42,400 --> 00:07:48,920 Speaker 2: an absolute shambles what unraveled or unfolded in the Budget 125 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:55,360 Speaker 2: Estimates hearing involving the former IK Commissioner. But look, what 126 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 2: I take exception to, Katie, is what happened actually in 127 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 2: that Budget Estimates hearing, he gave a speech that went 128 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 2: on for probably more than twenty minutes, which was extraordinary. 129 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: Anyone giving evidence to that committee is told that they 130 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: can give an opening statement, usually no more than five 131 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,160 Speaker 2: to ten minutes at the most. He was allowed to 132 00:08:16,200 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 2: go on and on and on. And I actually attribute 133 00:08:22,080 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 2: some responsibility for what happened to the government, the Government 134 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 2: chair Joel Bowden, who allowed that to happen. He should 135 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:30,720 Speaker 2: have been pulled up, he should have been put in 136 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:32,800 Speaker 2: his place. He should have been told that what he 137 00:08:32,840 --> 00:08:39,520 Speaker 2: was saying was disrespectful, potentially defamatory, offensive and told to 138 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 2: shut up. But the chair Joel Bowden, sat there and 139 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 2: listened to it, and who was sitting next to him 140 00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:47,640 Speaker 2: the whole time and said nothing, the Chief Minister of 141 00:08:47,640 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. So I have a problem with not 142 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 2: only what the commissioner said and what's transpired since, but 143 00:08:55,240 --> 00:08:58,440 Speaker 2: the process within the Budget Estimates Committee that allowed it 144 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 2: to happen, which of course is a parliamentary committee controlled 145 00:09:02,160 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: and operated by the government. So look, there's layers and 146 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:13,960 Speaker 2: layers of incompetency and missed opportunities to control something and 147 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 2: not let it get to the point where some person 148 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 2: is potentially identified by the Commissioner and feels that they've 149 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:25,959 Speaker 2: been defined and misrepresented. It's just a mess, Katie, another mess. 150 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: Well, Robin, unfortunately we've run out of time, but we've 151 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 1: got you in on Friday for the week that was. 152 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 1: I'll be there, lovet Thank you so much, Robin. We 153 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 1: appreciate your time. That is Robin Ladley there, the independent 154 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,200 Speaker 1: member for Ara lun and really interesting I think to 155 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: get that bit of background in terms of what a 156 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,640 Speaker 1: center motion is, but also whether it is normal process 157 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:51,839 Speaker 1: for something like that to be knocked back, and by 158 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 1: the sounds of it, definitely not. I have also had 159 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:00,000 Speaker 1: confirmation from a former speaker that no, it's not usual practice. 160 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 1: So look, we're going to delve a bit more into 161 00:10:03,760 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: this and whether it is an example of the government 162 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:10,439 Speaker 1: refusing scrutiny or whether they are trying to, you know, 163 00:10:10,600 --> 00:10:12,559 Speaker 1: to get away from being scrutinized.