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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for.

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Speaker 2: The time poor parent who just wants answers?

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Speaker 1: Now, will we use Santa as a thing. It's often

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Speaker 1: used in terms of manipulating children's behavior. You know, right

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Speaker 1: throughout November and December, you hear parents all over the

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Speaker 1: place saying, well, if you don't do this, then Adam

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Speaker 1: won't come and you always out on Santa Claus and.

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Speaker 2: Now here's the stars of our show, My Mum and dad.

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Speaker 1: Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the author of six books

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Speaker 1: about raising happy families, with my wife and co host

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Speaker 1: missus Happy Families, Kylie, Kylie. We've had some feedback coming

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Speaker 1: through via podcast at happy families dot com dot you.

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Speaker 1: In fact, not just via the email address, We've actually

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Speaker 1: had a lot of feedback coming through the Facebook page

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Speaker 1: as well.

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Speaker 2: We're noticing a lot of activity on the Facebook page

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Speaker 2: in relation to our podcast on helping our Children to

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Speaker 2: Love giving It. I'd loved seeing everybody's responses of what

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Speaker 2: they're doing as a result of the things that they've

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Speaker 2: heard us talk about.

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Speaker 1: It was episode one seventy six, if you've missed it,

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Speaker 1: How to Teach your Children to Love Giving it's kind

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Speaker 1: of gone a bit. Banana has actually got an email

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Speaker 1: from Claire and Montana via podcasts at Happy Families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au. Claire said, I've got a four year

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Speaker 1: old who loves coloring and painting, and so she's doing

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of art and craft and getting out

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Speaker 1: involved with the community and doing a whole lot of giving.

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Speaker 1: There had a handful of other emails that caught my

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Speaker 1: attention around the same idea.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I loved that. I love there's quite a few

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Speaker 2: families getting their ninja on.

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Speaker 1: Somebody said, I've got our Christmas ninja. They've got their

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Speaker 1: also acknowledged that.

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Speaker 2: The ninja didn't work so well.

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Speaker 1: They did a knock and run, They did a secret

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Speaker 1: sand and drop, and I can't remember the name of

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Speaker 1: the person who did it, but it was very, very funny.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, they got caught at the front door. I

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Speaker 1: think the kids actually set it up so that they

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Speaker 1: would get caught at the front door. She isn't that

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Speaker 1: the fun event, I reckon it is the other thing

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Speaker 1: that has come through. A few people are saying, my

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Speaker 1: two year old is really selfish and doesn't seem to

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Speaker 1: want to give at Christmas. My two year old just

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Speaker 1: wants to get We need to highlight developmentally appropriate for

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Speaker 1: a two or three or even a four year old

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Speaker 1: to be saying, no, I don't want to share with anyone.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted all to be mine. That's what they do.

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Speaker 1: Don't put too much pressure on them to be selfless

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Speaker 1: and giving and sacrificing until they're at least I don't know,

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Speaker 1: at least six or seven, maybe even eight or nine.

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Speaker 2: Well, Emily asked me a really tricky question yesterday.

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Speaker 1: So this is our six year old. What did she ask?

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Speaker 2: She asked me, if I believe in Santa.

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Speaker 1: Now there's a mine field, because well, we've obviously I've

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Speaker 1: got some strong beliefs about this.

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Speaker 2: This is probably a conversation that we should have without

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Speaker 2: the kids.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, quick, heads up. So we're talking about the

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Speaker 1: big man in the red suit today, and if your

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Speaker 1: kids are listening, you might want to just press pause

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Speaker 1: and kick him out of the room and then you

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Speaker 1: can come back, because we've got some pretty interesting things

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Speaker 1: to talk about here.

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Speaker 2: We actually had a question come through from the Grinch.

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Speaker 2: From the Grinch, we're having a Grinchy Christmas this year,

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Speaker 2: so I'm really excited to read what the Grinch has

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Speaker 2: to say, which she said. I made the decision some

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Speaker 2: time ago that I would never lie to my children

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Speaker 2: if they asked me the truth about Santa. But I

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Speaker 2: certainly wasn't expecting this question to come anytime soon. So

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Speaker 2: when my five year old son, who isn't even at

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Speaker 2: school yet, asked me straight up last week, Mummy, is

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Speaker 2: Santa real? I was taken aback and put on the spot.

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Speaker 2: I told him the truth. He didn't seem too fast.

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Speaker 2: He just asked who brought the presents. I told him

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Speaker 2: that I did, and he was happy with that. Since then,

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Speaker 2: I've told friends and family and they've been absolutely horrified

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Speaker 2: that I've told him the truth. I've been accused of

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Speaker 2: ruining the magic of Christmas for him, and I've had

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Speaker 2: friends upset as they're concerned my son will tell their children.

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Speaker 2: Did I do the right thing? Have I ruined Christmas

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Speaker 2: for my son? Have I made him grow up too fast?

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Speaker 2: Or will he appreciate my honesty?

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Speaker 1: They grench, Well, it is a minefield. Oh, it's so tricky. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know that I've got some strong opinions about this, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I've written about it pretty much every year

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Speaker 1: for the last four or five years, and I'm firmly

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Speaker 1: in the Grinches camp. I'm in the tell them camp.

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Speaker 1: Emily knows the answer, by the way, I'm surprised. I'm

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Speaker 1: surprised she asked you.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, the reality is she actually she knows your answer.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't actually know mine.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'll have to think about that a little bit. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but my answer is a good answer. So let me

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Speaker 1: tell you why I am firmly in the tell them

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Speaker 1: the truth camp. Now, I want to highlight at the

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Speaker 1: very outset. If the kids are very very little and

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Speaker 1: they are all into Santa, I'm fine for them to

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Speaker 1: believe it until the point where they start to actually

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Speaker 1: question it and come to me. And if they ask me,

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Speaker 1: I'm just like the Grinch. I just think we tell

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Speaker 1: them the truth. We just say, well, it's funny that

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Speaker 1: you've asked. Let's have a conversation about that. But let

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Speaker 1: me tell you why. There was a study. There's been

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Speaker 1: a number of studies that talk about deception. One recent

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Speaker 1: study from a university in Singapore showed that children who

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Speaker 1: have their parents lie to them experienced detrimental effects. So

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Speaker 1: they had four hundred young adult It was a retrospective.

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Speaker 1: You know, let's remember what it was like years ago.

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Speaker 1: These young adults, these university students were asked if the

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Speaker 1: adults in their life had lied to them in their

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Speaker 1: childhood maybe you know, when they were younger, and how

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Speaker 1: much they in turn now lie to their parents. And

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Speaker 1: what the research has discovered is that the kids who

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Speaker 1: were lied to more were much more likely to lie

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Speaker 1: to their parents. But what they also found is that

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Speaker 1: the kids who received more lies from their mum and

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Speaker 1: dad experienced more difficulty in dealing with everyday life challenges,

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Speaker 1: Like they had more guilt, they had more shame, they

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Speaker 1: had more selfish and manipulative character tendencies as adults.

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Speaker 2: Okay, but did this study actually look at Santa Clause

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Speaker 2: in the Easter Bunny? I mean, seriously, is this such

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Speaker 2: a bad thing?

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Speaker 1: Children learn their life through observation, and so basically the

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Speaker 1: research shows that kids who are lied to actually start lying.

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Speaker 1: Was it about Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny and

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Speaker 1: the tooth? Very probably not. It was probably about things like,

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Speaker 1: you know, divorce and separation and finances and all the

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Speaker 1: big sort of stuff. But essentially there's this undercurrent in

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Speaker 1: the psychological literature that if we lie to our kids,

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Speaker 1: they learn to lie, they learn that we're not always

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Speaker 1: going to tell them the truth, and that it's okay

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Speaker 1: for them to also play the same game. I've got

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Speaker 1: a bigger issue though, because I think that it's probably

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Speaker 1: hard to stretch that all the way to the Santa stuff.

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Speaker 1: But my bigger issue is just when we use Santa

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Speaker 1: as a thing, it's often used in terms of manipulating

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Speaker 1: children's behavior. You know, right throughout November and December, you

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Speaker 1: hear parents all over the place saying, well, if you

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Speaker 1: don't do this, then you always out on Santa Claus.

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Speaker 1: And I really have a massive problem with that because

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Speaker 1: I want my kids to behave in positive social ways

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Speaker 1: because it's the right thing, not because they might get

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Speaker 1: a goodie for being a good kid. I just think

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Speaker 1: that's horrible. I really struggle with that. But there's two

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Speaker 1: other things that I think highlight why we can get

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Speaker 1: away with letting the kids know when they ask, and

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Speaker 1: why the Grinch I think was right. First is that

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Speaker 1: I mean, some people say, oh, you know, you destroy

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Speaker 1: the magic of Christmas once the kids know it's not

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Speaker 1: magic anymore. Well, we've let all of our kids know,

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Speaker 1: and Christmas is still pretty magic. I know that it's

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Speaker 1: not possible to do most of the stuff that I

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Speaker 1: see in most movies that I see, Like we sit

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Speaker 1: down and we watch a movie, or we sit down

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Speaker 1: and we read a book, and we know that what

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Speaker 1: we're watching is false, and yet we still get completely

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Speaker 1: caught up in the story, still get completely caught up

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Speaker 1: in the magic of the movie, and still utterly completely

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Speaker 1: and in every way enjoy the movie. And I think

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Speaker 1: that that logic applies when it comes to Christmas and

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Speaker 1: Easter and losing teeth and whatever other fantasies we want

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Speaker 1: to make up for the kids. They can still fully

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Speaker 1: get into it from that point of view. And that's

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Speaker 1: why I don't think that we should be hiding the

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Speaker 1: truth from our kids when it comes to souder.

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Speaker 2: Well, maybe we might take a break and we'll find

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Speaker 2: out what I think about this whole situation, mister Coulson.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast.

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Speaker 3: Rans Creating Tension at Home, Tweens, Teens and Screens is

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Speaker 3: a webinar to guide families to healthy, safe superscreen solutions.

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Speaker 3: Bye today at Happy families dot com dot au slash shop.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, and today we've been talking

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Speaker 2: about the Santa Meth you've shared with us. Three I'm

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Speaker 2: going to suggest quite compelling reasons.

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Speaker 1: Why so we shouldn't be lying to our kids. It's manipulative,

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Speaker 1: and kids love fantasy. Grown ups love fantasy. There's nothing

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Speaker 1: the matter with fantasy. That's why I think that we

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Speaker 1: should tell our kids the truth.

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Speaker 2: So what if we find ourselves in the Grinch's position.

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Speaker 2: We've got a five year old he or she's asking,

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Speaker 2: in my case, a six year old who's asking me

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Speaker 2: how I feel about this? Do I believe in him

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Speaker 2: or not?

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Speaker 1: So I think when the kids are young, we just

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Speaker 1: let them believe whatever they want to believe. But once

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Speaker 1: they're big enough to start to think really critically and

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Speaker 1: think rationally, we should utilize that newfound neurological development that

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Speaker 1: they've got and let them work it out for themselves.

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Speaker 1: So instead of saying, hey, guess what, kiddo, now that

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Speaker 1: you've asked, let me just destroy your life, ruin your

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Speaker 1: Christmas and make you never believe anything up. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's just horrible, right, And that's not where I'm going

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Speaker 1: with this. What I think instead is much more useful

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Speaker 1: is to say, well, I wonder what you think, Like,

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Speaker 1: do you think that it's possible that one person can

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Speaker 1: visit every single house in the entire world in one night?

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Speaker 1: And do you think that it's possible that one single

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Speaker 1: person can eat that many cookies in one night?

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Speaker 4: Can you imagine how you've seen how big sound of

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Speaker 4: clause is? If you've seen how many cookies he'd have

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Speaker 4: to eat? You know, is it possible that he can

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Speaker 4: really get down the chimney? What about houses that don't

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Speaker 4: have to Like you can start to step it through

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Speaker 4: and say what do you think about this?

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Speaker 1: What do you think about that? And even though I've

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Speaker 1: got to tell them the truth philosophy, the reality is

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Speaker 1: we've let our kids believe what they want to believe

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Speaker 1: until they have actually figured it out for themselves, as

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Speaker 1: we've led them to ask the right critical questions around it. Right,

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Speaker 1: So I think that that's the best way to go

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Speaker 1: rather than just slapping them and saying, well kid, I

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Speaker 1: welcome to real life. You know, the school of hard knocks.

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Speaker 1: This is what it is. What did you say say

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Speaker 1: to Emily? You haven't actually answered that question?

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Speaker 2: Well, Emily and I had a gorgeous little conversation, and

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Speaker 2: I told her that I believe in the magic of Santa.

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Speaker 1: Huh, not Santa himself, but the magic of Santa.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I believe that the magic of Santa can

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Speaker 2: live in everyone. And we had a little conversation about

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Speaker 2: what that meant and the fact that Christmas is the

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Speaker 2: time that we get to give, just like Santa Claus

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Speaker 2: did or does, and we get to be a part

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Speaker 2: of that special process. That was what I told her.

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Speaker 1: I think that's really nice and it kind of ties

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Speaker 1: in with what we've tried to do somewhat unsuccessfully, but

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Speaker 1: we've tried to do with all of our other kids

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Speaker 1: as well, and that is that once they know, we

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Speaker 1: kind of recruit them to be secret Santa's themselves.

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Speaker 2: Well, it really taps in beautifully with the conversation we

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Speaker 2: had about helping our children to learn to love giving.

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Speaker 2: While ever, Santa is the whole focus of our Christmas,

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Speaker 2: it's all about receiving, but as we enable our children

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Speaker 2: to recognize that the magic of Christmas actually lies within

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Speaker 2: each of them, they become a part of the giving process.

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Speaker 2: And that's what I love about it so much.

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Speaker 1: I think the magic of Christmas is in your heart.

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Speaker 1: I think that's where it is. You'd be the best

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Speaker 1: Santa ever. Hey. Yeah, we really hope that you've enjoyed

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I know it was a bit of a

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Speaker 1: dicey subject today, but hopefully it all made sense and

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Speaker 1: hopefully you can have better conversations with your kids about

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Speaker 1: Santa as a result of that. The Happy Families podcast

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Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rulon from Bridge Media. We appreciate

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Speaker 1: all you do for is Justin and our executive producer,

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Speaker 1: the brains behind the podcasts, Craig Bruce. Thank you, Craig.

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Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about how we can help

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Speaker 1: your family to flourish, especially if you'd like to have

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Speaker 1: that ongoing monthly support via our amazing Happy Families memberships,

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Speaker 1: you can get all the information you need via Happy

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Speaker 1: Families dot com dot au