1 00:00:02,759 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda 2 00:00:05,320 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges 3 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 4 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the 6 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present. 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Ods. It's Monday, 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: the fifth of September. 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:38,160 Speaker 3: I'm Zara, I'm not Sam, I'm Nina. 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,440 Speaker 2: Sam is away for a couple of weeks, which means 11 00:00:40,479 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 2: we're going to be having different members of the TDA 12 00:00:42,720 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: filling in. And today we have our excellent party producer, Nina. 13 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 2: She is out from the shadows and in front of 14 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:55,520 Speaker 2: the microphone. Very exciting. A new report into sexual harassment 15 00:00:55,600 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: and discrimination in the music industry has reignited a national conversation. 16 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 2: The Raising Their Voices report was released. 17 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: The small reports authors described their findings as confronting shocking. 18 00:01:06,959 --> 00:01:11,040 Speaker 2: Figures of sexual harm, harassment and discrimination. We'll get into 19 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: that in the deep dive, but first, Nina, what is 20 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: making headlines. 21 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 3: Around forty thousand people from the Pacific Islands have been 22 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 3: approved to work in Australia, with Agriculture Minister Murray Watt 23 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,680 Speaker 3: seeing they're vetted and ready to migrate. This is part 24 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,600 Speaker 3: of the federal government's attempt to help fill labor shortages 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 3: and comes after an announced increase to the annual migration intake. 26 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:36,119 Speaker 3: The government has also made a commitment to fast track 27 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 3: the number of fee free teeth places to address workforce 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 3: shortages in regional Australia. 29 00:01:43,200 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 2: The Greens have called on the Reserve Bank of Australia 30 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 2: to put interest rate rises on hold. Now we know 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 2: that the RBA is expected to increase rates again tomorrow, 32 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 2: which would make it the fifth consecutive rise in as 33 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 2: many months. Green Senator Nick McKim is calling on the 34 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 2: RBA to pause its rate increases until after the federal 35 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 2: government's budget in October. This is because he says it 36 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 2: would put pressure on the government to act on rising inflation. 37 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:12,799 Speaker 3: At least nineteen civilians have been killed and food age 38 00:02:12,800 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 3: trucks have been destroyed by al Schebaba militants in Somalia. 39 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 3: The ol Kaeda linked group has battled Somalia's central government 40 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 3: for more than a decade. It wants to establish its 41 00:02:22,760 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 3: own rule based on a strict interpretation of Islamic law. 42 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:30,000 Speaker 3: This latest attack comes two weeks after Al Shabab besieged 43 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:33,800 Speaker 3: a hotel in the capital Mogadishu for thirty hours, killing 44 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,639 Speaker 3: twenty one people and injuring one hundred and seventeen. 45 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: And some good news, the oldest dinosaur ever found in 46 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 2: Africa has been unearthed in Zimbabwe. It took five years 47 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,720 Speaker 2: to carefully excavate a nearly complete skeleton. At about two 48 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: hundred and thirty million years old, the discovery is helping 49 00:02:53,720 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 2: paleontologists understand dinosaur evolution. They've named it the Mirisaurus rathi 50 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,040 Speaker 2: and in its day it was no more than two 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:09,200 Speaker 2: meters tall and ten to thirty kilograms. Last week, we 52 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: received the findings from an independent review that was looking 53 00:03:12,639 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: into sexual harassment and discrimination in the Australian music industry. 54 00:03:17,440 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 2: The report was called Raising Their Voices and it set 55 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,639 Speaker 2: out to identify problems but importantly also to develop strategies 56 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 2: to make the industry a safer place. 57 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 3: So we're going to get into those findings and it's 58 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: going to be a lot of statistics, but I think 59 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 3: in this case it's really useful to have those numbers 60 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 3: to understand what's been going on. But before we do that, 61 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 3: can you just talk through how they gathered all of 62 00:03:39,360 --> 00:03:40,000 Speaker 3: this information. 63 00:03:40,480 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, So, basically, the review team had a bunch of 64 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 2: conversations with people in the music industry. They conducted two 65 00:03:47,480 --> 00:03:51,560 Speaker 2: hundred and sixty six interviews and arranged sixteen focus groups. 66 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: They also received thirty two submissions from individuals and organizations, 67 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: and then they also did a survey which had over 68 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: one thousand participants. 69 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: Let's get into what they found. Where should we start, Zarah. 70 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: Let's start with sexual harassment. The survey found that fifty 71 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 2: five percent of respondents had experienced some form of workplace 72 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:14,120 Speaker 2: sexual harassment in their music career. That included seventy two 73 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,240 Speaker 2: percent of female respondents and thirty nine percent of male respondents. 74 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 2: About eighty five percent of people not identifying as male 75 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: or female reported at least one experience of workplace sexual harassment. 76 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: About forty five percent of sexual harassment incidents in the 77 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,679 Speaker 2: last five years happened at a music event, well twenty 78 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: one percent occurred in an office. Only three percent of 79 00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:40,440 Speaker 2: survey participants actually made a formal report about that harassment. 80 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:42,440 Speaker 2: And that's a really important statistic. 81 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:45,679 Speaker 3: So bullying was something else that the report looked into. 82 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 3: What did it find? 83 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: It found about three quarters of those who did the 84 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,719 Speaker 2: survey said that they'd experienced some form of bullying while 85 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 2: working in the music industry. But if we break that 86 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: down a bit, in the last five years, eighty one 87 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 2: percent of female respondents experienced bullying, and that's compared to 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: sixty seven percent of males and eighty six percent of 89 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 2: people who don't identify as male or female. 90 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 3: What about the day today discrimination that people are experiencing, 91 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 3: because I would imagine that as well as that bullying 92 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 3: and harassment, there's more insidious discrimination playing out as well. 93 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, so seventy eight percent of people who did the 94 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:27,640 Speaker 2: survey had experienced everyday sexism in the music industry, with 95 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 2: ninety one percent of women reporting at least one experience 96 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 2: of workplace sexism. Both First Nations people and other people 97 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 2: of color told the review about racist experiences that had 98 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: also impacted on their work lives. 99 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 3: Okay, so we've spoken about harassment in the industry, bullying 100 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 3: and discrimination. What about the gender pay gap? We were 101 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 3: all talking about this a bit last week in the 102 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 3: TDA office because it was Equal Pay Day last Monday, 103 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 3: and we did that story on Instagram about the pay 104 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 3: gap this year being at fourteen point one percent. Was 105 00:06:01,400 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: that something this report looked into as well. 106 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,159 Speaker 2: Yes, So participants in the review offered what they called 107 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:10,880 Speaker 2: anecdotal information which described a gender pay gap in the 108 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,480 Speaker 2: industry that was basically consistent with the national average. So again, 109 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: the music industry was reporting that the pay gap was 110 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,320 Speaker 2: the same as the national average, which is fourteen point 111 00:06:21,320 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: one percent. 112 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 3: I would imagine that the music industry is kind of 113 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 3: similar to the media in some ways that when people 114 00:06:27,839 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 3: are so keen to get in, it really exposes people 115 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: to potential exploitation. 116 00:06:33,279 --> 00:06:36,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, I mean the report found that people in 117 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 2: the industry weren't always paid for the work that they do, 118 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 2: and as young listeners, I'm sure a lot of people 119 00:06:41,520 --> 00:06:45,200 Speaker 2: can resonate with this. This applied particularly to people our age, 120 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: young people who would carry out the duties of an 121 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,479 Speaker 2: employee under an unpaid internship agreement or something similar. One 122 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:54,719 Speaker 2: person said, the people in the industry call this the 123 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: music tax. So people often at the start of their 124 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 2: careers will take an unpaid job in the whole of 125 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,040 Speaker 2: getting their foot in the door. The review said that 126 00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: interns should be paid a minimum wage and provided employment 127 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,960 Speaker 2: and titles if they do work that contributes to the 128 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: business in a meaningful way. 129 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 3: I think what's interesting to me and all of this 130 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:16,360 Speaker 3: is that the media coveted and there was some interest 131 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 3: in the findings that the report made. But when you're 132 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:21,880 Speaker 3: speaking to people who are in the music industry, they 133 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 3: didn't seem to be all that surprised. 134 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:25,920 Speaker 2: I mean, this is something the report itself said that 135 00:07:26,200 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 2: inappropriate behavior in the industry is basically an open secret. 136 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:33,520 Speaker 2: One person said, this conductor's quote just the norm and 137 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 2: if you can't take it, you'll leave. 138 00:07:35,320 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 3: Well, that doesn't shine a particularly positive light on the industry. 139 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 3: Did the report make any recommendations about how they can 140 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: address this. 141 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: Well, there was a joint statement the music industry said 142 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,240 Speaker 2: that they accept the distressing findings of the review and 143 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 2: were sorry for the harm that it had caused. Now 144 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 2: I'll just read part of the statement. It said, as 145 00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 2: disturbing and confronting as the findings are, the Australian music 146 00:07:57,680 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: industry is committed to change and to read building trust. 147 00:08:01,280 --> 00:08:05,600 Speaker 2: The music industry should and will fuster safe welcoming respectful, 148 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: creative and fun environments. 149 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 3: Did they say how they were going to do that, 150 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,640 Speaker 3: Because obviously there's been an issue for some time and 151 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 3: we haven't seen big changes up till now. 152 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 2: This report had really tangible outcomes. So there were seventeen recommendations, 153 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:24,560 Speaker 2: the first of which was the formation of a council, 154 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: which would oversee a bunch of other initiatives that had 155 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 2: been recommended, things like a code of conduct, a safe 156 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 2: space to disclose breaches to the code, and a review 157 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: system to investigate those breaches. 158 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 3: I think a review system sounds like something that could 159 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,000 Speaker 3: make a real difference. I think when we hear these 160 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 3: stories about sexual harassment in workplaces, it can be really 161 00:08:45,559 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 3: hard to know where to go, and there's been a 162 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:52,319 Speaker 3: lot of burden placed on survivors to report what's going 163 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 3: on and to speak to the media as a way 164 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 3: of getting attention. So if there's a safe, trauma informed 165 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,200 Speaker 3: way of people going to the industry and seeing, you know, 166 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,080 Speaker 3: something's going on, maybe that's something that could really get 167 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 3: some real big changes happening in the industry. 168 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's clear from the stats that we've 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:11,640 Speaker 2: just spoken about that change needs to happen, so it 170 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 2: now remains to be seen how these recommendations play out 171 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: and if the industry does have that change from the 172 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 2: bottom up. 173 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us on The Daily OZ and my 174 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:31,079 Speaker 3: first episode in Front of the Mic. My favorite thing 175 00:09:31,080 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: about this podcast is the uncondescending, informative way that we 176 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 3: get the news delivered to you, and if you're finding 177 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 3: that too, I'd really love it if you could tell 178 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 3: a friend about us, because we're still pretty new and 179 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 3: I think that we can get a whole bunch more 180 00:09:44,679 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 3: people involved in the conversations we're having here every day. 181 00:09:49,640 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: We'll be back again tomorrow, but until then, have a 182 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:55,520 Speaker 2: great day.