1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,880 Speaker 1: I mean, we've had some very funny cockups because of 2 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: last minute. 3 00:00:06,880 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 2: Work over the years. 4 00:00:08,280 --> 00:00:11,719 Speaker 1: I remember doing a corporate gig where we were refining 5 00:00:11,760 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: the PowerPoint as we were driving to this venue in 6 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: the Hunter Valley, and I stuffed up, and essentially we 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: only realized about halfway into the presentation that I was 8 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: running a version of it which had all the jokes 9 00:00:23,520 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: that we. 10 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: Decided not to do. 11 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: And that's a terrible experience because not only do you 12 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,040 Speaker 1: know that you've stuffed up, but you know what's coming. 13 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,159 Speaker 1: You know that all the jokes that you're about to 14 00:00:32,240 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: have to say are jokes that you have decided, as 15 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: a matter of your good judgment, are not worth saying. 16 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 3: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 17 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 3: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 18 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,960 Speaker 3: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amatha Imber. I'm an 19 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 3: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 20 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 3: finding ways to optimize my work date. 21 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:01,160 Speaker 4: My guest today is Julian Morrow. 22 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:05,200 Speaker 3: Julian is the co founder of The Chaser and Giant Dwarf. 23 00:01:05,720 --> 00:01:10,040 Speaker 3: He's been the executive producer, writer and performer on various 24 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:14,280 Speaker 3: shows including The Chaser's War on Everything, Hamster Wheel and 25 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 3: The Checkout. I first met Jules a couple of years 26 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 3: ago when we invited him and Chris Taylor from The 27 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,160 Speaker 3: Chaser to MC the annual awards night that we put 28 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 3: on for the Australian Financial Reviews Most Innovative Companies List. 29 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 3: We are obviously psychers for punishment, as we invited Chris 30 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 3: and Jewels back the following year to provide our audience 31 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 3: with even more politically incorrect jokes. Now, I was very 32 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: keen to have Jewels on the podcast to unpack his 33 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 3: approach to writing comedy. I feel like Jules is a 34 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: master of this, and we talk about a number of 35 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 3: different topics around comedy in this episode. So we start 36 00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 3: by first talking about what The Chaser probably most well 37 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,559 Speaker 3: known for, which is how they managed to sneak into 38 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,559 Speaker 3: Apec with Chaz dress Does Asama bin Laden, which happened 39 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,560 Speaker 3: over a decade ago, and we talk about what was 40 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,000 Speaker 3: involved in creating that stunt. We then move on and 41 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 3: we talk about how to write jokes and how to 42 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 3: be funny and where Jules finds his best ideas. 43 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 4: So that's enough from me, and on that note, over 44 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,680 Speaker 4: to Jules to hear about how he works. 45 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:23,520 Speaker 3: So, Jules, welcome to the show. 46 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:24,640 Speaker 5: It's a great pleasure to be here. 47 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 3: Now. I want to start by talking about stunts, because 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:30,359 Speaker 3: I feel like that's something that you and the rest 49 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 3: of the gang from the Chaser are most well known 50 00:02:32,200 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 3: for it, and probably your Apex stunt is the most 51 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 3: well known, so for listeners that were maybe living under 52 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,519 Speaker 3: a rock in was that two thousand and seven or yeah, yeah, 53 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:44,919 Speaker 3: can you describe what actually happened there? 54 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 2: Well? 55 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:51,320 Speaker 1: So, we had started in television with The Election Chaser 56 00:02:51,320 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one, and we've made shows pretty 57 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:59,240 Speaker 1: regularly for five six years, culminating in the Chasers War 58 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 1: and everything, which had got pretty popular. A significant element 59 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,200 Speaker 1: of our shows from the outset was what we called stunts, 60 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: which essentially involved, you know, trying to find public figures 61 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,880 Speaker 1: or often just public logos that we could pretend we're 62 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,799 Speaker 1: taking on the company and you know, basically taking our 63 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,200 Speaker 1: comedy or satirical ideas out onto the streets. We sort 64 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: of then got snooked in a way by history because 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 1: the Apex Summit came to Sydney right at the peak 66 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:31,799 Speaker 1: of the Chaser's War on everything, and because we were 67 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: known for stunts, everyone was like, what are you going 68 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: to do at APEC And our sort of starting point 69 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: was nothing, because it's going to be the biggest security 70 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: lockdown in the history of the country and there's no 71 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: way we'll be able to do anything. But it did 72 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: feel like a bit of an albatross, like we had 73 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 1: to do something. I assumed that the ABC wouldn't let 74 00:03:48,880 --> 00:03:52,520 Speaker 1: us do much, because you know, there was always what 75 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:55,160 Speaker 1: you might describe as a tense dialogue behind the scenes 76 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 1: about what we could and couldn't do in public, and 77 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 1: everything that we did was sort of script and cleared 78 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 1: at some level by the ABC in advance. 79 00:04:03,160 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 5: Probably due to some of the times we've been. 80 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: Charged with criminal offenses in the previous years, so you 81 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 1: can understand where they were coming from. So I had 82 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 1: a meeting with the ABC executive producer at the time 83 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: and the head of security at the ABC, and I thought, Oh, 84 00:04:16,000 --> 00:04:17,719 Speaker 1: here we go. We're going to have you know, the 85 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: Riot Act read to us and I'll put poor cold 86 00:04:19,960 --> 00:04:21,640 Speaker 1: water on us. And I was secretly thinking, well, that'll 87 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,640 Speaker 1: be fine. You know, we won't have to do anything. 88 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 5: We can just say no. We were shut down by 89 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 5: the network and use that. 90 00:04:27,279 --> 00:04:30,720 Speaker 2: As a sort of convenient guys for our own cowardice. 91 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,360 Speaker 1: But the head of security and a lot of these 92 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: people who are in security, like ex military. 93 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,680 Speaker 5: Or xsas, and they love it. They love trouble. And 94 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:41,360 Speaker 5: so this great guy. 95 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,800 Speaker 1: Tony was sort of talking us through and then right 96 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:45,039 Speaker 1: at the end he said, no, look, it's going to 97 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,839 Speaker 1: be there's no way you'll get in. There's going to 98 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 1: be you know, this outer ring which will be there 99 00:04:49,560 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: will be regional police and things like that. You might 100 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 1: be able to get through that, but then there'll be 101 00:04:52,880 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: two levels of in a ring. There's no way that 102 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: you'll get in. The only way that you can get 103 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 1: in there is. 104 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,560 Speaker 2: In a medicaid. And I was like, that's a good idea. 105 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: And that was actually where the idea for putting a 106 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 1: fake motiicaid came together. So it was courtesy of the 107 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:08,840 Speaker 1: AVC security briefing. I'm like, yeah, we could do that, 108 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 1: we could do a fake motiicaide and so we started 109 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: looking into it. 110 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:15,679 Speaker 3: Wow, And so before then it was just a vague 111 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 3: kind of notion of how can we do something. 112 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 1: Well, we just knew that it was going to be 113 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,839 Speaker 1: dominating the news that week and probably for a couple 114 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,800 Speaker 1: of weeks to come. And the expectation was that our 115 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 1: show would cover whatever was in politics that week, and 116 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: so we had to cover it somehow. 117 00:05:31,640 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 5: And we know we would use the chases. 118 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,800 Speaker 1: Wear and everything was essentially a comedy variety show. We 119 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: did songs in the studio sketches, but we also did stunts. 120 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 1: I always felt that the stunts were the things that 121 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: really resonated with people, or they were an important part 122 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,920 Speaker 1: of the formula. And it felt like a big event 123 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: like that, getting in the face of politicians or something 124 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: like that felt like a pretty chaser thing to do. 125 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: But again, we assumed that it wasn't going to work, 126 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: and I assumed that right up until the day. And 127 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: I do remember going down to the ABC loading dock 128 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:08,760 Speaker 1: and seeing these cars that we'd had and went, well, 129 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:09,919 Speaker 1: that looks pretty real. 130 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 3: So what had to happen between ABC's security giving you 131 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 3: the idea of how to actually get in and the 132 00:06:19,400 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: actual day. 133 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, there were extensive nervous discussions with ABC legal. 134 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:28,120 Speaker 1: There was special security legislation that had been passed for APEX, 135 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: so there was like an outer ring and an inner ring, 136 00:06:30,680 --> 00:06:33,200 Speaker 1: and essentially our riding instructions were, look, you can go 137 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,640 Speaker 1: up to the out to the entrance. That's fine, that's legal, 138 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: but you can't go in. And if you're told to 139 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: leave the area, you have to leave the air and 140 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: all that sort of stuff. 141 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:43,720 Speaker 5: And so we had pretty clear writing instructions. 142 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 2: We knew what we couldn't couldn't do, and that's why. 143 00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 1: As well as having a fake motorcade complete with you know, 144 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 1: fake secret service people running beside the cars like they 145 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:01,919 Speaker 1: hadn't since Kennedy was shot, and especially not carrying video cameras, 146 00:07:01,920 --> 00:07:03,720 Speaker 1: which is what because that was me and all our 147 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:08,159 Speaker 1: camera people. The other thing that we had was Chaz, 148 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: my colleague Chas Lichadello inside the mar decay dressed as 149 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:17,239 Speaker 1: a Sama bin Laden, which he hated for for some 150 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 1: practical reasons, like wearing a fake beard is a really 151 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:24,160 Speaker 1: unpleasant thing. They're just they're just uncomfortable. And also dressing 152 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,920 Speaker 1: up as a summer Chas had done it a couple 153 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,280 Speaker 1: of times, and we'd had a recurring sketch in the 154 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 1: in the series where we would take the Sama bin 155 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,440 Speaker 1: Laden's sort of g had videos warning the world about things, 156 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:38,120 Speaker 1: and we just put comedy subtitles on it. 157 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,880 Speaker 5: So a Samer was he was like the he you know, 158 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 5: he was like the seventh Chaser. So people say, you 159 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:45,679 Speaker 5: know that we lacked diversity. 160 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: We were all men, but there was one you know, 161 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 1: radical extremists muslim man as. 162 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 5: Well, that was about as closed. 163 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. 164 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:55,520 Speaker 1: But so we had Chaz there because essentially that's flipping 165 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: the switch to vaudeville, and it was there on the 166 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,640 Speaker 1: assumption and that we would not get in as it 167 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 1: turned out. I describe it as a stunt that went 168 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: horribly right. You know, we planned for almost everything except 169 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 1: getting in, and so then we had this very strange 170 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:19,280 Speaker 1: situation where we drove through the streets of Sydney, we 171 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: stopped outside New South Wales Parliament House set up, started 172 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: going down Macquarie Street and essentially we were just ushered 173 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: in by all the police and they said things like 174 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 1: the road is yours, do whatever you like. 175 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:34,839 Speaker 3: How were you feeling at this point, like, because you're 176 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:36,199 Speaker 3: essentially breaking the plan. 177 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:40,880 Speaker 1: When you do stunt comedy, you operate by a perverse logic. 178 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,240 Speaker 1: Most people are scared of embarrassing themselves in public. That 179 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: was essentially our job was to embarrass ourselves in public. 180 00:08:46,679 --> 00:08:49,920 Speaker 1: That's what we did. So you're more worried about not 181 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,160 Speaker 1: doing your job, which essentially is not doing something that 182 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,640 Speaker 1: will be funny and that you can use in the 183 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: show that week, because at one level you can have 184 00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 1: all sorts of creative pretenses about being, you know, a 185 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 1: commene in or a satirist. At another level, you have 186 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 1: to feel a show every week, like you just have 187 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 1: to put something to air. 188 00:09:05,679 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 5: So as we got past the first gate. 189 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 1: And it was pretty clear that the tone was going 190 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:15,200 Speaker 1: to be to just let us in, we were all thinking, okay, well, 191 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,680 Speaker 1: what do we do now? And there were sort of 192 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,040 Speaker 1: two aspects of that. One, I stopped the moticade where 193 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: I thought we were still on the right side of 194 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: the line, and I was going to turn the motiicaid around, 195 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: and that's what we did as it happened, and it's 196 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:32,440 Speaker 1: sort of like a good metaphor for the chaser. Generally, 197 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: we stopped, we went to turn around, and while we 198 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 1: were trying to turn around, we went over the line 199 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: and sort of, you know, into the legally dodgy territory. 200 00:09:40,800 --> 00:09:43,839 Speaker 1: The other thing was, well, I remember walking down the 201 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,679 Speaker 1: street thing, well, this is not very funny. I mean, 202 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,559 Speaker 1: we're in, but it's not funny. So when we stopped 203 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: the modiicate, I went over to Chaz and the transcripts 204 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: a little bit incoherent, but what I think we both 205 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:58,000 Speaker 1: thought we were saying to each other is, well, look, 206 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: we're in, what do we do now? And essentially the 207 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:04,960 Speaker 1: suggestion was, well, why don't we get a sama out. 208 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: It's the worst point in a stunt when when you 209 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 1: don't have a punchline and you're expecting to be shut 210 00:10:09,320 --> 00:10:12,120 Speaker 1: down by security or that is essentially your punchline. If 211 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 1: they don't do their job and shut you down, then 212 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,839 Speaker 1: you're stranded, right, And my heart goes out when I 213 00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: see other people do stunts and it gets awkward towards 214 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: the end, and I know that that's just because they've 215 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 1: run out of material. Like you always prepare as much 216 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: as you can, but if no one stops you, then 217 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:26,840 Speaker 1: at some point you're going to run out of material. 218 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 1: And so what we were doing was essentially we were 219 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 1: triggering our own punchline. 220 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 2: By getting Chas to step out. 221 00:10:33,559 --> 00:10:36,160 Speaker 1: And then of course, you know, the guy looked at 222 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 1: my thing and he because all the passes said, you know, 223 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,960 Speaker 1: this is not real we are from The Chaser, all 224 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: that sort of stuff. So the idea was that would 225 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 1: only take a cursory glance for us to be stopped, 226 00:10:47,520 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: which was in a way, I mean, I think of 227 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,199 Speaker 1: it as the epitome of my favorite parts of The Chaser, 228 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 1: because I felt like we were making a serious and 229 00:10:57,040 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: good point in a very very deliberately silly way, Like 230 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: if you're going to spend one hundreds of millions of 231 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:04,079 Speaker 1: dollars on security and then you leave the front door open, 232 00:11:04,280 --> 00:11:08,640 Speaker 1: there's a problem with the security. And so while we 233 00:11:08,720 --> 00:11:13,080 Speaker 1: had the veneer of a modcade, we would not pass 234 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:18,440 Speaker 1: the slightest proper scrutiny. And then, and the other sort 235 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:23,839 Speaker 1: of serendipitous thing about the stunt was that even though 236 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:27,440 Speaker 1: Chaz getting out as Arma getting out was funny, it 237 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: wasn't like, you know, there's a certain way you have 238 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,079 Speaker 1: to land a scene or a sketch, and it wasn't 239 00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:34,320 Speaker 1: what we were calling out. 240 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:35,640 Speaker 2: It wasn't a clear end. 241 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,280 Speaker 1: It was only we discovered that an end had happened 242 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:41,439 Speaker 1: accidentally when we got back to the office and got 243 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,920 Speaker 1: the tapes back the next day. We discovered the fact 244 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:46,559 Speaker 1: that because I was sort of the leader of the Modcaide. 245 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:49,560 Speaker 1: When Chaz had got out as a summon Milan, all 246 00:11:49,600 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: the police had come to me. So there was this 247 00:11:51,720 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: situation where the most wanted man in the world was 248 00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 1: walking along unattended by police, while I had like six 249 00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:01,960 Speaker 1: police around. And it was only when we realized that way, like, 250 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:04,280 Speaker 1: that's the punchline, that's what and that was the sort 251 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:05,440 Speaker 1: of thing that made the whole thing work. 252 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:06,640 Speaker 5: But it was not in no way plan. 253 00:12:07,200 --> 00:12:10,280 Speaker 3: And how do you, like if you kind of unpack that, like, 254 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:13,319 Speaker 3: what are the steps to creating a stunt? Like, was 255 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:16,920 Speaker 3: there a process that yourself and the rest of the 256 00:12:16,960 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 3: Trash team would go through to create something like that? 257 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:19,560 Speaker 6: Yeah? 258 00:12:19,559 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 1: I mean by this stage, this is two thousand and seven, 259 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:24,400 Speaker 1: so we've been doing this for six years. We had 260 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: the very good fortune to be mentored by our comedy 261 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: fairy godfather Andrew Denton, who wasn't working with us anymore, 262 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:34,439 Speaker 1: but who had drilled us in his sort of approach 263 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:35,080 Speaker 1: to things. 264 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: Which was very rigorous and all about preparation. 265 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,840 Speaker 1: I mean, the secret, the sort of obvious secret of 266 00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:45,160 Speaker 1: doing stunts is that the person doing the stunt always 267 00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: has the upper hand because they know what's going to 268 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: happen right, So it's essentially an unfair exchange. 269 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 2: But the mistake is to think that just the element 270 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 2: of surprise will be enough. 271 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:59,400 Speaker 1: So the process of doing a stunt would be we 272 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,319 Speaker 1: would pitch. 273 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: Ideas in a writer's meeting, which was the group of the. 274 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:09,000 Speaker 1: Chaser tossing around ideas at one sense of evaluating what 275 00:13:09,040 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 1: we as a group thought were good and what weren't. 276 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 2: That was an important part of it, although over the years. 277 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: We also sort of developed a bit of oh, well, 278 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: if you think that shitty idea is worth in trying, 279 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: will you go. 280 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:21,480 Speaker 2: Ahead and do it? 281 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:24,559 Speaker 1: And we were also right and wrong at different times, 282 00:13:24,800 --> 00:13:26,240 Speaker 1: which I think is one of the benefits of working 283 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,320 Speaker 1: in a comedy group. But the other part of it 284 00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,040 Speaker 1: was then in that writing meeting, it would be really 285 00:13:33,160 --> 00:13:37,280 Speaker 1: striking sometimes how quickly an idea which was good in 286 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,559 Speaker 1: its elements could be turned into something that was miles 287 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,160 Speaker 1: better by the really rapid fire sort of just brainstorming 288 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 1: of people who were all in that sort of space, 289 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,840 Speaker 1: and so often there'd be little twists on ideas that 290 00:13:50,840 --> 00:13:51,760 Speaker 1: would make them a lot better. 291 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 2: But they then all had to be written up, and 292 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 2: we had like a. 293 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: Template that we would use both for preparing something that 294 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,080 Speaker 1: we'd put to the ABC so that it could get 295 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 1: cleared by the lawyers, and then also everything has to 296 00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: be okayed by the ABC editorial people in advance, which 297 00:14:10,080 --> 00:14:12,400 Speaker 1: was a process I was very comfortable with. I was 298 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 1: a former lawyer, so I was sort of happy having 299 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:17,960 Speaker 1: those sorts of arguments. I think I've probably contributed to 300 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,280 Speaker 1: a lot of employment and probably a lot of stress 301 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 1: leave the obviously legal over the years. 302 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:25,120 Speaker 2: So that was a pretty rigorous process. 303 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:29,880 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, as the thousands of viewers 304 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: have probably turned off this podcast on the kind of 305 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: how boring my account of making comedy is, it would 306 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 1: have realized, like, it's actually a pretty it's a pretty 307 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: dull process. It involves rigorous preparation and just the hard 308 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: yards of trying to work out, well, what things could happen, 309 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 1: what lines will we say if they do happen, what 310 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:48,600 Speaker 1: do we do if this? 311 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 2: If it goes this way that way? And you basically 312 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,280 Speaker 2: try to go out as prepared as. 313 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: Possible, and then and then on the day, it's that 314 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:01,440 Speaker 1: sort of it's the nerves of one to bring home 315 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: the goods or something at least usable and that was 316 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,160 Speaker 1: very much our concern on the day. The other thing 317 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: about Apec, though, was it because we thought we were 318 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: going to have to flick the switch to water. We 319 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: actually had two or three other stunts planned that day, 320 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:18,000 Speaker 1: which none of which could go ahead because the whole 321 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:21,320 Speaker 1: thing sort of so we hired boats and stuff like that. 322 00:15:21,360 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: We're going to try and get in by air, by land, 323 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 1: and by sea. But when the land one sort of 324 00:15:26,120 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: got big, everyone else had to sort of pack up. 325 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 3: And I want to delve into the joke writing process, 326 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 3: and I want to also sort of look at how 327 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 3: does it differ if you're writing a joke with the 328 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,440 Speaker 3: team of people as he kind of described as it 329 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 3: was with the chaser, versus on your own. And I guess, 330 00:15:46,840 --> 00:15:50,239 Speaker 3: like where is a good place to start with unpacking 331 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 3: how do you write a joke? 332 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 6: Well, look, a few years ago I hosted Friday Drive 333 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,240 Speaker 6: on Radio National and that was a great gig to 334 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 6: just be able to interview people who happened to be 335 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:03,680 Speaker 6: in town and stuff like that. 336 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,560 Speaker 2: And I interviewed this guy, he was. 337 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: An academic about comedy, and I was a bit suss 338 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: of it, because you know, what could be more boring 339 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 1: than doing academic studies of comedy. But I had this 340 00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:17,920 Speaker 1: guy in and he gave a definition of comedy which 341 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: I actually thought was really really solid and identifies the 342 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: key of what makes a joke work. So he defines 343 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: I can't rememberther he's defining comedy or a joke, but 344 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: he basically says, it's the benevolent violation of expectations. 345 00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:36,360 Speaker 5: That what you do is you set up the setup, 346 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 5: as it's literally called, you set up an expectation. 347 00:16:39,760 --> 00:16:40,440 Speaker 2: The joke, the. 348 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: Punchline is essentially a violation of that setup. It's something 349 00:16:44,440 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: unexpected that happens. And then the other thing that he 350 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: added in is that it's benevolent. That the reason that 351 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:52,960 Speaker 1: everyone laughs is because at some level it's okay they 352 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: And it is very true that a joke, well it 353 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: might be written by one person or a group of 354 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: people laughing, is it's sort of like a communal experience. 355 00:17:03,960 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 1: It's I suppose when you're reading it's not, but even 356 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: then it's a communication between the person who's written and 357 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:16,120 Speaker 1: the reader in a room, studio audience, or a comedy venue, it's. 358 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: A community thing. 359 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:20,960 Speaker 1: It's basically the audience understanding something that in a way 360 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,360 Speaker 1: you haven't said. It's like you're playing with people's expectations 361 00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: of the meaning. I think that's a really good definition 362 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: of what a joke is, and the benevolence important, and 363 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: we learn later on that sometimes if the audience doesn't 364 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: share your sense of the benevolence, then things can get 365 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 1: pretty ugly, and that's when you get all these sort 366 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:46,600 Speaker 1: of taste and decency controversies. But essentially, a joke is 367 00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: about setting up an expectation and then doing the opposite, 368 00:17:50,160 --> 00:17:53,320 Speaker 1: and there are lots of different forms of that. 369 00:17:53,359 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 2: One of the simplest is the rule of three. 370 00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: You know, ab everyone assumes it's going to be it's 371 00:17:58,600 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: going to be one thing and then. 372 00:17:59,359 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 2: It's something else. 373 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 1: That's the obvious form of it, and most comedy is 374 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: a form of that. 375 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 2: It's also usual. 376 00:18:10,160 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: It's also sort of indirect. It's usually the intended meaning 377 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 1: is usually not the literal meaning. So you know, even 378 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: like you know, Jane Austen and things like, that's a 379 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,679 Speaker 1: lot of irony and. 380 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 2: When you know what's really going on even though the 381 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:26,080 Speaker 2: characters are saying something else, and those sorts of things. 382 00:18:26,119 --> 00:18:30,160 Speaker 1: So yeah, so it's a craft, and it's a craft 383 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: you can learn and you get better at it with practice. 384 00:18:32,440 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: And we did it for a long time, starting off 385 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: with a newspaper which we used to put out fortnightly 386 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,240 Speaker 1: and just sort of spend sleepless nights working up silly 387 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: jokes that no one read. But that was sort of 388 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,520 Speaker 1: our training ground. But yeah, I mean, in the end, 389 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: it's a pretty simple craft of people expect one thing, 390 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:50,080 Speaker 1: do the other. 391 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 392 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 5: Yeah. 393 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 3: And in terms of I guess the difference between writing 394 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 3: comedy solo versus in a group, like there's. 395 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 2: Much more frustration in a group. 396 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, Like, how what do you enjoy more? 397 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 7: Oh well, look, I mean I look, I think I 398 00:19:09,920 --> 00:19:13,560 Speaker 7: enjoyed the group more for a long time. I think 399 00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 7: what was good about the Chaser writing room, While it 400 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 7: was frustrating for many who were in it and almost 401 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,600 Speaker 7: everyone who was outside it, it was a. 402 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,360 Speaker 1: Pretty tough school, you know, like you had to get 403 00:19:25,359 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: through that meaning to get your stuff on screen, and 404 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:30,960 Speaker 1: that just raised the bar a bit, which was good. 405 00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,720 Speaker 1: You get when you spend a lot of time writing comedy, 406 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: you know almost instinctively what the obvious and easy joke is, 407 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: and you know they're obvious and easy because they work 408 00:19:41,119 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: most of the time, if you can do something that's 409 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: a bit more unexpected, and I suppose the chaser style 410 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: was to do something that was a bit harsher, a 411 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,720 Speaker 1: bit more that went places that other people wouldn't go, 412 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:55,439 Speaker 1: then people really respond to that. 413 00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, is there an example you can think of of 414 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:02,720 Speaker 3: a joke or a skit or segment that was on 415 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 3: the show where this is kind of what the obvious 416 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 3: thing would look like, but here's where you decided to 417 00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 3: go instead, or even in more recent times. 418 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,959 Speaker 1: It's hard to put your finger on, but there are 419 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: things like after nine eleven, one of my favorite jokes 420 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:22,160 Speaker 1: was a headline center Point, which is Sydney's Center Point Tower, 421 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:24,399 Speaker 1: which was I think at the time the largest building 422 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: in Sydney, probably not now, but the headline was center 423 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:31,679 Speaker 1: Point jumps too in world's Tallest building rankings, and that 424 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: was like this very very lateral angle on a horrible tragedy, 425 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: and we thought that was Some people didn't like that joke. 426 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:42,439 Speaker 1: I thought it was funny, and I thought it was 427 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: far enough away, perhaps not in time, but sort of 428 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 1: in its angle and things like that for it to 429 00:20:48,119 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: be funny. At the time, we had some controversies over 430 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: the years with jokes that where we made jokes about 431 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: things that other people think shouldn't have jokes made about them. 432 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: And I suppose that's an example of drugs that really 433 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 1: divide people. The people who find those funny, I think, 434 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: then develop a loyalty or affection for you for sort. 435 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 2: Of going there, but then people who hate those jokes 436 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:15,199 Speaker 2: hate you. 437 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,439 Speaker 1: And I suppose another one would be the Chris and 438 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:23,159 Speaker 1: Andrew's eulogy song, which was built around the premise that 439 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,200 Speaker 1: you can't be defamed when you're dead at one level, 440 00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: and also that even horrible people are thought of fondly 441 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: in death, and so we essentially do this sort of 442 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,280 Speaker 1: role call of dead Australian celebrities that was extremely offensive 443 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:44,320 Speaker 1: but was also making I think a legitimate point in 444 00:21:44,359 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: a way that no one else at the time probably 445 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 1: would have done, probably because they had some good sense. 446 00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: But yeah, you know that was and then actually the 447 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:53,400 Speaker 1: punchline of that was another good example. 448 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: Road McManus's wife, Bilinda Redman, had died. 449 00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,199 Speaker 1: Not long before this, and you know, obviously that was 450 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: just a a tragedy and a horrible thing to happen. 451 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,119 Speaker 2: And even though we made jokes about all sorts of 452 00:22:05,160 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: dead people. We knew that that at the time. 453 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:09,679 Speaker 1: To have made a joke about that would have just 454 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:13,480 Speaker 1: been completely that would have been over the line, even 455 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,120 Speaker 1: even our line. But the punchline of that of that 456 00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: song was actually Andrew at the piano saying the words 457 00:22:22,480 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 1: Berlin as if he was about to. 458 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: Launch into this joke, right, and that was genuinely no one. 459 00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:30,639 Speaker 5: And we sort of like, oh no, just so stop. 460 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,200 Speaker 5: Of course, it was never intended. 461 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 1: That the joke would be done. That was that was 462 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,480 Speaker 1: the joke. But I think that's an example of being 463 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,439 Speaker 1: so unexpected that kind of work. Although some people at 464 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,960 Speaker 1: the time wrote that up Ass and the Chaser team 465 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 1: had to shut their colleague down as he was about 466 00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: to launch on you know, and you're like, well, god, 467 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: what do you people think? 468 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: Like they it's amazing. 469 00:22:53,520 --> 00:22:57,080 Speaker 1: How if you if you don't want to understand a joke, 470 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: you can really really tie yourself. 471 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:02,439 Speaker 2: And everyone else up in knots not understanding it. 472 00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 3: I want to know, how how do you know if 473 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 3: something's funny? Like I imagine that gets easier with time, 474 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,199 Speaker 3: but how do you know? 475 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:12,640 Speaker 2: Well, I mean. 476 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:15,879 Speaker 1: The proofs in the putting to some extent, it is 477 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,679 Speaker 1: just an experienced thing. You essentially have to trust your 478 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:24,120 Speaker 1: own judgment of what you think is funny, and then you. 479 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: Experience that instinct being affirmed. 480 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: But I think one of the good things about the 481 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: Chaser team was that we also we had to understand 482 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:43,119 Speaker 1: that it's an inherently subjective and a and in some 483 00:23:43,160 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 1: ways an illogical process of what makes people laugh, because 484 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: as I said before, we'd all had experiences of things 485 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,920 Speaker 1: that we didn't think were funny that were then fated 486 00:23:53,280 --> 00:23:56,080 Speaker 1: nationally and beyond, and equally things that we thought were 487 00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,439 Speaker 1: really funny that just you know, we might have been 488 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,560 Speaker 1: the only person in the room who ended up thinking 489 00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 1: it was that funny. Different jokes work in different ways, 490 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,159 Speaker 1: but essentially all jokes are about context, and they're about 491 00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: the way. You know, there's got to be a way 492 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:14,159 Speaker 1: that the audience can understand it that works for them 493 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: and it makes it okay for them to laugh. Sometimes 494 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,320 Speaker 1: there's a guilty laugh, which is a different that's the 495 00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: sort of poking the bear taboo type laugh, and again 496 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:28,080 Speaker 1: that's just some people have the psychological makeup where that 497 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,439 Speaker 1: is a release mechanism for it, and for other people 498 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:36,160 Speaker 1: that's a travesty and those people don't really buy many 499 00:24:36,240 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 1: Chase it dvidas. 500 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 3: No, No, I want to talk about the creative process 501 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 3: because I'm mad. I mean, you've worked across a lot 502 00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 3: of different mediums TV, radio, print, stage, and I imagine like, 503 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:52,240 Speaker 3: in the process of creating something, you must have felt 504 00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,639 Speaker 3: Wright's blocked many, many times, and I'm wondering, like, what 505 00:24:56,240 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 3: are your kind of go to strategies to get starck 506 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 3: or to come up with new and different ideas. 507 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:06,400 Speaker 2: So I often operate by distraction. 508 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: I mean I have ended up running the Chaser and 509 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 1: then Giant dwarf Our production company in theater now as 510 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:19,600 Speaker 1: well as doing the creative stuff, and so often I 511 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: will just sort of basically procrastinate by doing other sort 512 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: of important stuff that needs to be done, but just 513 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,680 Speaker 1: as a way of not sort of trying to wait 514 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: till I've got the inspiration to do something or just 515 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 1: you know, procrastination is no longer possible. But I mean 516 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,640 Speaker 1: generally it's about just changing up your environment as much 517 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: as you can. I mean, we didn't do this very 518 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: well because we. 519 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 2: Often just stay in the office late at night. 520 00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: And I mean chairs sort of has a self flagellating 521 00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: approach to comedy where he sort of thinks that if 522 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:56,720 Speaker 1: he just stays up forever, eventually something funny will come out. 523 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 2: And that's true some of. 524 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,679 Speaker 1: The but I think that the science is sort of 525 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: in on the benefits of sleep, although he refuses to 526 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: believe it. But I think just often just getting out 527 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:18,800 Speaker 1: of your normal work situation, working off and outdoors, just 528 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,240 Speaker 1: walking and observing things. I mean, normally, really good ideas 529 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: come when you're doing something else, and then the trick 530 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: is to try and just remember them. And you know, 531 00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:30,400 Speaker 1: we all have little different ways of sort of stockpiling ideas, 532 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: some of which never you know, get used, others of 533 00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: which might have. 534 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: Been sitting on some list for ten years and then eventually. 535 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:40,159 Speaker 1: The day comes whether either they're right or you're just 536 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: that desperate that you're right. 537 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:43,840 Speaker 3: Anything, you know, And what did your process look like 538 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 3: for stockpiling ideas? 539 00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:47,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I use a lot of technology and stuff 540 00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:48,040 Speaker 2: like that. 541 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,000 Speaker 1: So I've got Trello boards and slack channels and stuff 542 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,639 Speaker 1: like that, which are just basically doodle pads of different 543 00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 1: ideas that sit there. And yeah, I think over years, 544 00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:02,960 Speaker 1: you develop a pretty quick intuition for what's likely to 545 00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,320 Speaker 1: work as an idea. I think that trying to do 546 00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:08,879 Speaker 1: it in a way that's a little bit different is 547 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: the challenge. I don't think we're particularly good at doing that, 548 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: because at some level you will get you get into 549 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: a habit of doing things a certain way, especially if 550 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 1: it works reasonably well. I think I enjoy more having 551 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,399 Speaker 1: a piece of footage that doesn't work and finding a 552 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 1: way to make it work in post production more than 553 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: just seeing an idea that yeah, that look that that's 554 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,199 Speaker 1: as we write it. It's funny, you know, let's just 555 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:35,080 Speaker 1: put it out. There's a lot more craft involved in that, 556 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: and I quite enjoy that. But I think, you know, 557 00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:40,439 Speaker 1: other people in the Chaser group are more inclined to 558 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: just be pure writers. Yeah. 559 00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean given the different I guess, the 560 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 3: different types of thinking and working that that you currently 561 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,679 Speaker 3: do with your current role, like do you do you 562 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 3: kind of I guess have different ways or different times 563 00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 3: of day where you're like, okay, you know with all. 564 00:27:58,680 --> 00:28:02,600 Speaker 2: The no no structure and no secret. 565 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 5: That's encouraging exactly. 566 00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 567 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: I should listen this podcast this episode obviously, but other 568 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 1: episodes I might find that's right. No, I mean I 569 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,359 Speaker 1: think I'm getting better as the years go by on 570 00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 1: prioritizing things and you know, just not getting taken along 571 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,520 Speaker 1: with the type of events, focusing on what where you 572 00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:27,960 Speaker 1: can really add value all the things that you just 573 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:28,480 Speaker 1: want to do. 574 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 2: But I you know, it's tricky when. 575 00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 1: You've got that the core of what you do is 576 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 1: creative and involves writing, and it is just true that 577 00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 1: sometimes it's the staring at the page beforehand that's a necessary. 578 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:44,560 Speaker 2: Part of the process. 579 00:28:44,600 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: So it's very hard to extricate procrastination from the inherent 580 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: requirements of the job, and you constantly. I think probably 581 00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,640 Speaker 1: my most creative outlet is coming up with rationalizations for 582 00:28:57,640 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: why it doesn't really matter that I haven't written the 583 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,000 Speaker 1: thing that I was going to writ. 584 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 2: That's I devote a lot of energy to that. 585 00:29:04,240 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: But look, it's a juggle, and I think that's probably 586 00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:09,760 Speaker 1: just my personality type that I am. 587 00:29:10,040 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 2: I'm somebody who. 588 00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: Is naturally inclined to having a bunch of things on 589 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:17,600 Speaker 1: the go and sort of flitting between them, and not 590 00:29:17,880 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: someone who's like, I don't feel the urge too, you know, 591 00:29:23,800 --> 00:29:26,160 Speaker 1: sort of put myself away and a rise, retreat and 592 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:30,360 Speaker 1: write a novel. Some people love doing that, and more 593 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: power to them, But that's just not me. 594 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,960 Speaker 8: I think that's really encouraging to hear about your procrastination 595 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 8: because I feel like listeners, particularly regular listeners of the podcast, 596 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 8: would just assume that no one who is going to 597 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,520 Speaker 8: be interviewed on this podcast wouldare procrastinate. 598 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 3: So how do you procrastinate? 599 00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,200 Speaker 5: Well, it is good procrastination. 600 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:47,720 Speaker 2: Well, that's as a gift for it. 601 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 5: Look, at some level, it's about yeah, you just it's 602 00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 5: the classic, you. 603 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,960 Speaker 1: Know, cleaning up your room because you don't want to 604 00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 1: do your homework. Essentially, there's always small scale administrative things 605 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:03,240 Speaker 1: that do sort of need to be done but really 606 00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:05,040 Speaker 1: don't need to be done now, and the thing that's 607 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,840 Speaker 1: driving you to do them now is more the you know, 608 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: not especially subconscious desire not to do the main thing. 609 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 1: And I think the more constructive form of it is 610 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 1: doing things like you know, going off and exercising or 611 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,160 Speaker 1: walking or just trying to look at things from a 612 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: different perspective because you then you do often get ideas 613 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:27,080 Speaker 1: which come to you because you're not working. That's something 614 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,800 Speaker 1: that you need to value. Yeah, at different times over 615 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:32,880 Speaker 1: the years, there's been fads that have gone through various 616 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,320 Speaker 1: writing rooms of some of the some of the people 617 00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:37,520 Speaker 1: who worked on the checkout were doing Pomodoros and all 618 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:39,640 Speaker 1: this sort of thing where they try and be productive 619 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: for twenty minutes then have a bit of a break. 620 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,080 Speaker 1: Twenty minutes of pure productivity seems like way too much 621 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: for me, so I was a conscientious objective from that. 622 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, look, it's I think the more you can 623 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:56,120 Speaker 1: have awareness of what the task at hand is and 624 00:30:56,160 --> 00:30:59,280 Speaker 1: what's going to be the best way for yourself to 625 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:05,720 Speaker 1: get through that task, the better I think. Sometimes I 626 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: mean I hesitate to say this, but I mean I'm 627 00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:12,960 Speaker 1: pretty last minute in preparing speeches and things like that, 628 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: and that's either just gross negligence or I think increasingly 629 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 1: it's kind of like you actually do inherently know how 630 00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 1: much work is involved in something, and sometimes while it 631 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:27,560 Speaker 1: would be nice to prepare it a. 632 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:30,240 Speaker 2: Week in advantage just going and have the script ready. 633 00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:32,920 Speaker 1: I think I just have, through experience, come to know 634 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 1: that I don't need to do that, and at some 635 00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:37,880 Speaker 1: level that would be a waste of my time to 636 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,959 Speaker 1: do that. Now, I still think that there's I mean, 637 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:44,080 Speaker 1: we've had some very funny cockups because of last minute. 638 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:45,800 Speaker 2: Work over the years. 639 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,440 Speaker 1: I remember doing a corporate gig where we were refining 640 00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:51,560 Speaker 1: the PowerPoint as we were driving to this venue in 641 00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 1: the Hunter Valley, and I stuffed up, and essentially we 642 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: only realized about halfway into the presentation that I was 643 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:00,640 Speaker 1: running a version of it, which all the jokes that 644 00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 1: we decided not to do. And that's a terrible experience 645 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,240 Speaker 1: because not only do you know that you've stuffed up, 646 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:08,040 Speaker 1: but you know what's coming. You know that all the 647 00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 1: jokes that you're about to have to say are jokes 648 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 1: that you have decided, as a matter of your good judgment, 649 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:15,560 Speaker 1: are not. 650 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:16,560 Speaker 5: Worth saying. 651 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:18,120 Speaker 2: Jokes. 652 00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 1: And we you sort of just played with it and 653 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: stuff like that, and that was fine. There's a challenge 654 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: in the creative arts between obsessive over indulgence in the 655 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: detail and actually just having high standards. 656 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: It's a very fine line to run. I do think that. 657 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: A lot of stuff gets through because people aren't obsessive enough. 658 00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,080 Speaker 1: But then over the years you also realize that you 659 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: can spend a lot of time working on something to 660 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: get it to a point that you think objectively is better, 661 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:52,960 Speaker 1: and most of the audience doesn't. 662 00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:57,080 Speaker 2: Notice or care. So not getting caught up in that. 663 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,880 Speaker 1: Obsessive level of detail is good skill to develop without 664 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:09,960 Speaker 1: ever losing the awareness that it is actually looking into 665 00:33:09,960 --> 00:33:10,720 Speaker 1: the fine grains of. 666 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 2: Something that makes that makes a difference. You live just 667 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:16,160 Speaker 2: trying to balance those two things. 668 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:16,520 Speaker 4: Yeah. 669 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:19,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, Now we're almost out of time, and in the 670 00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,959 Speaker 3: final few minutes that we've got, I'm curious to hear, like, 671 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,520 Speaker 3: what are some of your go to sources for inspiration 672 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 3: or things that you've consumed recently that had a big 673 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,560 Speaker 3: impact on you, Like it might be podcasts or books 674 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,160 Speaker 3: or any newsleanders websites. 675 00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,600 Speaker 2: I'm a big fan of audio. I mean, I just 676 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:42,719 Speaker 2: listened to a lot of podcasts. 677 00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,840 Speaker 3: And I what are your favorite ones? 678 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: Well, look, I mean I think I think Radio Labs 679 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,200 Speaker 1: the best going and more perfect. 680 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:52,560 Speaker 2: That's fantastic. 681 00:33:53,640 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: I love ninety nine percent invisible reply all. I find 682 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: Gimlett as a media sort of experiment really interesting and 683 00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:08,800 Speaker 1: quite And that's the sort of example of if you 684 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,400 Speaker 1: like the editorial culture of a public broadcaster and this 685 00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,080 Speaker 1: American life spitting out into something that works as a 686 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,919 Speaker 1: commercial product but has all the same editorial values, which 687 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: is something that I really like. When we first started 688 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,520 Speaker 1: with Andrew Dnson. The first thing he played us was 689 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: Chris Morris's. 690 00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:26,960 Speaker 2: Satire This. 691 00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 1: Day Tonight, which is where Steve Coogan started as Alan Partridge. 692 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,120 Speaker 1: That is brilliant and brass I is, I think a 693 00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:38,560 Speaker 1: one of the great sort of. 694 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:44,280 Speaker 2: Media satires. I also think his movie. 695 00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,800 Speaker 1: Four Lions, which is a very dark comedy about homegrown 696 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,320 Speaker 1: terrorism in the UK. 697 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:48,960 Speaker 2: Is brilliant. 698 00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 4: Yeah. 699 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,040 Speaker 1: And you know, and I'm also I'm a tragic radio 700 00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:56,360 Speaker 1: national fan. I used to listen to Philip Adams and 701 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,960 Speaker 1: Geraldine Doug and Norman Swan when I was at university 702 00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,520 Speaker 1: and I still listen to all their shows and it's 703 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 1: been great to be able to actually meet them and 704 00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 1: work with them over the years. But you know, quality 705 00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,800 Speaker 1: public broadcasting is a good thing. And despite having devoted 706 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,360 Speaker 1: much of my life to lowering the standards of public broadcasting, 707 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:19,480 Speaker 1: I still sort of in the abstract believe in it 708 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:20,080 Speaker 1: in principle. 709 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 3: Excellent, excellent and final question, if people want to consume 710 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,520 Speaker 3: more of what you're doing, where can they find you? 711 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:26,640 Speaker 5: Well? 712 00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 1: Giant Dwarf dot com dot au is the website for 713 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 1: the theater that we run. I'm doing quite a few 714 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:36,040 Speaker 1: shows there at the moment, I do a show called 715 00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,880 Speaker 1: photo Op in which I interview politicians and people in 716 00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:43,040 Speaker 1: public life about their careers. If there are any lawyers 717 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:47,600 Speaker 1: out there, I've started a new series of Continuing Professional Development. 718 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,360 Speaker 1: Lawyers have to do mandatory CPD. I used to be 719 00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,640 Speaker 1: a lawyer, and I've started a series called CPD UI, 720 00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:57,840 Speaker 1: which is basically drinking alcohol while acquitting your professional responsibilities. 721 00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:00,480 Speaker 1: And I run that as a series at job Dwarf, 722 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: and it's also videos that are available online. Until recently, obviously, 723 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: we did The Checkout, which was a you know, satirical 724 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:08,880 Speaker 1: consumer affairs show on the ABC, which. 725 00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:09,680 Speaker 2: Ran for six seasons. 726 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,319 Speaker 5: Is that ever going to come back? I'm told it's 727 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:13,600 Speaker 5: on hiatus by ABC. That's what they said. 728 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: I don't think it'll come back the ABC is I mean, 729 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: I think that was a terrible decision by the ABC. 730 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,240 Speaker 1: But the ABC is a bit all over the place 731 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:25,240 Speaker 1: at the moment, and I just don't know. 732 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,160 Speaker 2: What will whether it'll it'll. 733 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: Come back in some form or other, But you know, 734 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,359 Speaker 1: i'd like to think that it could because I did 735 00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:38,640 Speaker 1: enjoy again making providing interesting information in a way that 736 00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:39,160 Speaker 1: was that. 737 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:39,959 Speaker 5: Was pretty silly. 738 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: We were we were without doubt the funniest show on 739 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,000 Speaker 1: Australian television about the six hundred page statute, largely due 740 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 1: to lack of competition, but still so yeah. I mean, 741 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: and all that stuff's available online as well, but I 742 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:55,360 Speaker 1: don't think I don't think we'll be doing any modi. 743 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,480 Speaker 2: Cais or dressing up as something in Latin any time soon. 744 00:36:58,800 --> 00:36:59,439 Speaker 5: That's a real shame. 745 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,160 Speaker 3: Well, Jeles, it's been so good at talking to you. 746 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for coming on the show. 747 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 2: It's been a right pleasure. 748 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 4: Hi there, it's Amantha here again. That is it for 749 00:37:09,280 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 4: today's show. 750 00:37:10,320 --> 00:37:14,440 Speaker 3: I hope you liked my chat with Jules and feeling 751 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 3: all inspired to go out and write some funny things. 752 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:19,760 Speaker 4: If you like today's. 753 00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,000 Speaker 3: Episode, why not share it on social media or with 754 00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 3: people that you think would enjoy it. 755 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 4: And if you're enjoying how I work, I would love 756 00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 4: it If you are feeling particularly. 757 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,760 Speaker 3: Generous and want to write a review for the show 758 00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,840 Speaker 3: in Apple Podcasts, reviews help other people find the show, 759 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,000 Speaker 3: which is awesome. So that's it for today and I 760 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:43,279 Speaker 3: will see you next time.